Some Thoughts on the Future of Cars
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- Опубліковано 13 лип 2024
- In this video, we provide social commentary on how EVs, policy, and rising prices are shaping and changing the automotive industry. We also discuss how the internal combustion engine has been far more challenging to keep alive and what we can do about it. Whether you are a Tesla, Toyota, Lucid, Ford, or VW fan, there is something in this video to think about.
#cars #business #engineering
00:00 Intro
00:23 The Different Options Available
4:54 Putting the Cart in Front of the Horse
9:38 Cars and Politics, Bad Mix
13:34 Sabotaging Internal Combustion - Авто та транспорт
Just a foot note this is designed to generate some talking points and opinions from people. Not about right or wrong and try not to waste your energy going off the deepend, not worth it. And for those who seem convinced I hate EVs, I don't I'd buy a Rimac tomorrow once I can off load some Red Lobster shares.
What about the 2nd and 3rd world? My thought listening to your talk here is that while it's a small problem for people in America/Europe/China/etc. what about the vast majority of the driving population in poorer areas? How will they sustain electric charging from home? Will there be an infrastructure for public charging? Answer = No, they don't even have basic human rights. They can duct tape an old VW or Honda together for decades but EV is and will remain an exclusive technology for the haves. Excellent talk. Mark 2024.
I can’t see why vehicles have gotten so large, my 98 Accord is smaller than the current Civic. A tablet on wheels seems to be trend, really disappointing. I have to do a walk around with my work vehicle, it’s a “mid-size” but is the size of early 2000 Suburban. Speaking of Red Lobster, I need to make reservations for next Weds date night with the Mrs..
You really need to take a new 2024 Model 3 performance for a few months. Using their excellent software and getting comfortable with the insane acceleration
I wonder where people are getting that idea. Do they regulate the cost of Gas like your fixed-price fantasy, Mark?
Review some good EVs. Maybe a polestar or something.
Not to mention all of your praise for Lucid and Hyundai, as a couple examples.
An electric Aztec will solve all problems.
Electric Murano cross Cabriolet 🔥🔥🔥
@@ADUSNthe world isn’t ready yet.
So.. like BMW iX2?
You mean the Cybertruck?! 🤣
I'd buy that for a dollar!
Reviews in 2028 : It's quiet, has a long range, pumped in audio & weighs 3 tonnes. Copy & paste on any EV review.
In 2028 electric cars will be gone and hybrids will take over, plus regular ice cars will live on with synthetic fuels.
@@williamcricket7931 freakin hope so.. Not a fan of full EV but don't mind a well built hybrid.
@@williamcricket7931is bro from the future?
@@ChrisFromFloriduh Yes
Highest sold car last year worldwide was a Tesla Model Y so I don’t think ev’s will go away anytime.
“I was there when VHS slew Betamax. I witnessed HD-DVD struck down by Blu-ray. My nights are haunted by the cries of the Sega Dreamcast. I know this same fate awaits the Kia EV6.”
People forget about laser disc videos. That was about a one year technology. It was pre dvd. It was basically a dvd, the size of a old record.
I was there too!
@@CalvinHikesSometimes you had to flip the disc mid movie!
@@CalvinHikesI saw those in a box last weekend. I didn't know that was a thing. Funny because I have a VCR.
It’s a good car. Are you saying that because of the battery supply issue?
The rot set in when the loopholes for SUVs and trucks was created.
Yep. Huge policy mistake. And it squandered the advantages we had gained in MPG and emissions through all that costly tech. People complain about gas prices. Maybe try not dailying a Power Stroke F-150?
Absolutely! A true policy disaster.
Thanks, conservatives!
Most big truck and SUV drivers don't even know why they bought them. They equate big with safe, which is a false equivalence. Try buying a station wagon in the US, good luck.
@@tim3172this is on the hands of both parties - nobody has ever corrected it, so there can't be any of this he said, she said bullshit. We need less pointing fingers at the other side of the aisle, more compromise (saying this as someone who's fed up with both sides).
Dang, as a Bolt owner, I wasn’t expecting to catch a stray from a goose today
It feels like the 90s and early 2000s were kind of a goldilocks period for ICE cars - They were built robust, had enough tech and safety but were not excessively expensive, complex and heavy like today's offerings. It is strangely refreshing seeing cars like the MG3 on the road because at least they're simple, cheap and have only the essentials.
A lot of the problem seems to stem from the SUV craze and trying to make them do everything well (impossible). You can't have cheap, agile, economical, practical, rugged and luxurious attributes in one package. Dedicated family cars like Holden Commodore or dedicated sports cars (MX5), Luxury cars (E39 bmw) etc worked better and were simpler, lighter and cheaper all for it.
Peak ICE: AMG 6.2LV8, BMW NA V8 & V10, Italian open-gated shifters, Aston Martin NA V12, Ferrari/Maserati's operatic NA V8s, S2000, Alfa Busso, Lexus LFA, Lancer EVO & WRX, Carrera GT...
2001 Acura Integra.. Bullet Proof at 200K
That is mostly because CAFE regulations were frozen and not pushing manufacturers to make questionable choices to meet the regs. Left to their own devices, the ICE got more reliable, more powerful and, yes, still improved fuel economy. The OG LS came from this era and is a perfect example. Then look what happened in the mid 2000s: they added active fuel management, ruining the small block's reliability record. Why? CAFE regs phased back in around 2005. The rest is history with all of the crap the ICE has to endure to meet regs.
At 63 think I might just daily my ‘89 300E for the next 35 years. 355km still runs like a swiss watch.
@@jamesrebbechi5247 I'm 32 and I have similar feelings about my '95 C180.
And you'll be way "greener" doing so than if you fell for the virtue signaling and paid 70 grand for a lump of nonrenewable, toxic-to-manufacture batteries.
@@harmstrongg I'll be the first to advocate for using something that continues to function over buying something new and shiny, as long that the thing that is being used is not harmful to others. That is the question that needs to be answered - Are old vehicles harming other people by being operated. I generally think no, as long as they are not spewing toxic chemicals into their local environment.
People get all bent out of shape about Avgas (100LL) - I am not a scientist and I don't follow all the data connecting the dots between GA aircraft operation and the side effects of leaded aircraft exhaust - BUT I do know that inhaling lead is toxic. By the same logic, I know that CO is also toxic to humans, and if I have the opportunity to reduce my impact on the local environment by running my gas vehicles less, then that is what I SHOULD do. Now, will I insist that EVERYONE be mandated to either buy an EV? No. Not everyone has the means, and people should have the right to buy and use what is legal to use and is affordable to them. Yes EVs do have their own carbon footprint, but it is not "non-renewable" as you say, nor is it more toxic to manufacture than a gas vehicle - it is not hard to find science-based facts about both of these statements. Plenty of engineering-based UA-cam videos to these exact arguments can be found.
Also, most EVs being sold today are not anywhere near 70k USD.
@@MBergyman As an airline pilot who has done a lot of time in GA planes running Avgas. It is terrifying. 100LL has several times more lead than leaded automotive gas ever had. The fact that we are JUST starting to get away from it now in 2024 is ridiculous, but there is so much regulatory inertia around it. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if a lot of pilots had brain damage from being around the stuff.
@@MBergyman My point about being greener is that these ICE vehicles in question have already been made. They're just sitting around. It is better to use them than to manufacture a new (and, frankly, disposable by design like all modern products) EV.
A 6 year old used ICE, even something sporty, is greener than the Tesla you're waiting 6 months for from the factory.
We used to make cars here in Australia. And the industry was propped up by the federal government for a very, very long time. But then as South Korean and Chinese brands started to infiltrate and get better and better, that was no longer viable. We don't make cars here in Australia anymore...
you just export raw materials and import huge #'s of illegals. EV co2 is killing the planet stupidity and worse is globalists/corps shutting down freedom. a simple $12,000 5 passenger car that get 40mpg+ is easy, but it's not in the plane. us or them.
The local manufacturing was doomed way before the Koreans started to become a force in the Australian market. The Chinese have only had a limited impact in the last few years with EVs
It was the Japanese manufacturers that had the most impact. And remember Nissan, Toyota and Mitsubishi were building cars here way before the USA. They all packed up and left australian manufacturing before or at same time as Ford and Holden.
If an industry needs to be propped up by the government, how viable is it really?
Subsidies can only delay the inevitable doom from lack of competence.
China does not compete fairly. It'd be naive not to put tariff on them
These "talk" videos are my favorite, they are the reason this channel is the only car review channel I am subscribed to, and watch every video of.
They distinguish you from other channels, and add a layer of depth not found anywhere else.
Especially during these transitional times, having videos that talk about the reality of things, and what happens behind the scenes is very appreciated.
In a few years he will arrive at the conclusion that Cars aren't the fix, but public transit, it's hard for Americans, but I believe he will get there.
This is without a shadow of doubt the best car channel. It’s just in a a few words “ Intelligent and Classy” love it.
""I am a voice of one crying out in the wilderness: Make straight the way of the [car]" - please forgive me a little sacrilege here, but... is the YT audience (and, in particular, the audience of this channel) the proper one for such a statement? I may generalize (but not too much, I am afraid), but majority of YT audience is here to hear about "citius, altius, fortius" cars/trucks/suvs/etc. rather than about simpler, cheaper and reasonable vehicles.
?
I love listening to this guy talk. Minimal edits too, what a boss
Yeah that's what I noticed. That was pretty much just like solid ranting no umms or fillers, no notes, no script, no cuts. Just straight talk.
All industry, not just the auto industry in the US needs to get away from the idea of "infinite growth". Its not sustainable. All levels of the supply chain (from the nuts and bolts) to the dealership lots need to become leaner, and they just aren't willing to do that. That means reasonable shareholder returns, reasonable executive compensation, and fair employee waiges. Its going to be a change to a "slow and steady" mindset.
The Toyota mindset
careful, this might get you called a communist in some parts of the US....
infinite growth is just a sales tactic like any other random lie. only the stupidest people actually believe it.
Indeed, after a certain point technology becomes a hinderance. It’s like trying to reinvent the wheel. All technology hits a peak.
Japan has been at a point of economic stability (some describe it as stagnation) for the past few decades. Economics Explainedand Money&Macro have great videos on it if you are interested
I come from both worlds, having owned and driven a Chevy Bolt for 4 years, and now driving a ram truck with a hemi V8 engine. The Chevy bolt was fun to drive as a daily commuter but after all the costs of having two vehicles, it came down to consolidating to one for insurance reasons alone, plus the extra fees they put on electric cars for the license plate tabs. Consolidating to one vehicle it became clear to me that the Chevy Bolt, while fun to drive, would not work as my loan vehicle. The compromises of having an electric car are real; the charging cost are cheaper than gasoline but not zero, the range loss in Winter temps is almost 50%, people don't factor that in. It meant that I could barely drive 100 miles from my home in winter, I live in northern Michigan and we have actual real winter here. I couldn't tow even my lawn mower trailer with a plastic kayak in it. One thing, I never understood - the irrational hatred for EVS from some people, it somehow got associated with politics and that's a damn shame because my Chevy Bolt was more American made than my co-workers Ford truck. Government getting involved in vehicle electrification was a death blow, many people have a natural and understandable aversion to anything the government wants them to do.
This was a good video and a good summary of where we are, I think electrification will (slowly) continue but the less government is involved the better it will be for the consumer in the end.
Bingo. I’m a car enthusiast and was semi open to EV from a logical standpoint as of course there are some advantages but the moment the govt involved in attempt to force them than I’m purposely resisting now. Same as with the C shot.
You make a great point. As someone myself who is all in on electrification - I’m frustrated that a technology, just a CAR, has become a political issue. And that’s the governments fault. Let the tech speak for itself, not the government speaking for it.
Gov EV credits were pivotal in increasing adoption.
I am on my third EV now and I also have a new truck.
Most people who hold an anti-EV stance have never driven one and suffer from indoctrination. They are amazing in many ways and imperfect in others.
Their resale is trash, winter range is bad (much better in Tesla than some others, though). Insurance can be very high. They drive amazingly, cheap to fuel up, require no maintenance. I always take the Tesla first. It’s VERY smooth. I use my truck for truck things and I know it will hold its value better.
@@patty109109 I’ve driven several EVs. My elderly father has a Tesla Model 3. I’m still against them because of govt mandated control. We have to stop govt interference in our lives where we can. It’s already too intrusive. On top of that, with 50+ mpg Priuses running around I don’t logically see the need for complete push to EV only. There is something else going on here. Open your mind.
@@patty109109 my Tesla really doesn’t suffer in the winter really at all - once it’s warmed up it’s just like normal. And preconditioning fixes that before you even leave the house. It’s my only car for 3 years now and it goes all over the country.
About resale, I think it’s simply a matter of market correction. Once that is all solved they depreciate just like any other car.
There's so many factors going into it just making everything worse. For example, one reason Hertz cited for cancelling their Tesla fleet was chargers requiring accounts to use them, which people renting cars didn't want to bother with. Recently I ran into the same issue with just parking. I went to a parking lot in a big city that I often use when I go there and they had changed from just requiring payment to needing your name, phone number, e-mail, etc. I just left and street parked because I don't want to deal with that BS.
Is that just Tesla? I rented an e Mustang and it was super easy. No account. Paid with a CC the two times I charged. The only worry was being too far from the airport to guarantee 85% charged by the time I got there. Did it but was a smidge anxious.
I assume you are not talking about Tesla Supercharger access here, as Hertz and Tesla worked it out pretty cleanly with the Hertz account credit card being used for payment to Tesla, which was just tacked on to the Hertz bill with no action needed by the renter (i.e. "Tesla Rebill").
But yes, any non-Tesla rental puts the renter through the same thing any EV owner has to do, sign-ups with apps etc. which can be annoying, especially for those who don't do any charging pre-planning with ABRP etc.
@@petehelme7714 My Mustang required nothing. I also appreciated that the disconnect button was on the outside of the car instead of inside, like the Ioniq 5, which is in the trunk and a hassle.
Rented a Tesla from Hertz for a trip. Car itself was fine, and charging super easy (it works off the Hertz Tesla account and was charged to me by Hertz). But I had a real problem with Hertz - their first car had a slow leak in one tire, and they wanted to charge me for damaging the car when I brought it back for a replacement. In fact they made me sign a waiver admitting this before they'd let me have a replacement. At the same time, they wanted to charge me for some dings in the car that had been there when I picked it up. I vowed never to rent from Hertz again.
@@petehelme7714 what's the deal with all this account BS needed for the charging? Why can't I just swipe my card the same way I'm doing at a gas pump?
Low emissions + vehicle durability peaked in EFI NA 4-6 cylinder cars with a couple airbags and plastic bumper covers. We should reset CAFE requirements to the late 90s but include trucks.
I 100% agree. If we get 30% more people driving 4-cylinder sedans that get 28mpg and out of SUVs or Trucks that get 20mpg, that will do more to reduce emissions.
@@JosephSuber31st but then you have to force people to do another thing. It's just switching between things that people won't accept.
@@raspas99 the EPA already forced everyone into larger and more expensive vehicles with the footprint law that penalizes oems for making smaller, more efficient cars, and prioritizes light truck sales more
Yes. Too bad the epa is forcing all this expensive braindead bs
Yeah but I don’t want to drive that every day. I did and they were shit and are still shit. Shit sucked. I don’t want to go backwards except when it comes to reversing regulation. I like things with turbos V8s and lots of power because they are fun and enjoyable. You might not want to drive something nice but I want to. You are no more right than they are. What we need is to stop expecting everyone to think and behave the same way. You can keep you shit boxes from the 90s great cars for projects but I’d much rather have something fun with turbos even if that means I’ll only get 200k- 250k out my turbod car rather than 300-400k miles. No solutions only trade offs.
Mark, Easily the best segment ever. When politicians become engineers and engineers become politicians a recipe for disaster along with this thing called physics….
since when are good engineers becoming politicians? More good engineers as good politicians would be a good thing
@@FreezingPTidk.... If we let the "good engineers" from Volkswagen group, BMW, and Mercedes.... I don't think I'd want to live in that country lol. Same for the engineers who decided to but turbocharged 4 cyl engines in all these Toyota Trucks this gen.
@@FreezingPT I’m a retired engineer who worked for 3 large corporations. Not all engineers are good engineers and some are consummate politicians who will do and say anything to get promoted. So you have to always be skeptical, no matter who is making government policy and writing the standards.
Frankly, the EPA is guilty of gross overreach on auto standards and it’s making cars more complex and unaffordable for many.
The only thing worse might be the politicians that don't follow science at all. Finite resources aren't a good pairing to infinite growth economy. At some point we will have to address how to live within our means. Including fossil fuels. Including lithium.
The problem is that emissions must be cleaned up. We can't continue to lead down this path though I fear it's already too late. I am, however, hyper aware of how governments pass laws against the people as a way of virtue signaling and consolidating power for themselves. In the US, many municipalities have banned gas stoves but then why do the rich fly private jets and dump millions of gallons of gasoline into our oceans every day while summering on superyachts? Why aren't private jets banned? Why aren't superyachts banned? Because the rich write the rules.
Great video! You should do one on the constantly rising car insurance issue. Mine goes up every six months without tickets or claims 😢
Welcome to inflation. Greetings from triple digit inflation Argentina.
I have a house and park in a garage now but my insurance 4 years ago was half as much when I lived in a crappy apartment and parked on the street its crazy.
I found out the other day that hondalink reports your driving telemetries to insurance companies. For example if you have the accord touring trim it automatically reports, but the lower trims (sport) do not, or you can opt out.
@@tjon901dollar is worth less, lawsuits are larger, parts cost more, labor to fix cars costs more. Need more dollars to do the same you did years ago. Shit monetary policy
Degenerates are crushing cars that are way above their price level, so everyone is paying for it. Most people shouldn't drive at all.
I said this when helping my mom buy a new car, “Remember everything the dealer wants is to convince you that scaling up a bad decision is going to somehow save you from those consequences.”
The comment section proved your point. People states their true concerns they have about EVs and they get trashed by EVangelists.
We all know the type, and they're insufferable.
The vegans of cars.
The main problem with this conversation is demonstrated right here in the comments of this video. The point isn't about loving or hating E.V.'s, it's about actually speaking about facts and issues.
-Are E.V.'s expensive (in America)? Yes, but they don't have to be. Right now, it's a luxury item, and it doesn't have to be like that. When a car is well over the average cost of a new vehicle, that means at least 50% of buyers can't afford it.
-Is the infrastructure for charging millions of cars available (in America)? No, not yet. If we have more E.V.'s on the road, we need more chargers (Period). The answer isn't adding video games to your infotainment. Sometimes, waiting 2 plus hours at a grocery store or mall isn't an option.
-How many shops near you (that are not the manufacturer of the vehicle) will even work on any E.V.? The answer, very few if any at all. While manufacturers claim allowing independent shops to work on their vehicles would violate I.P. laws, buyers are left shipping E.V.'s for 100's (or 1000's) of miles to get them fixed. All while voiding any warranty that might have been left.
Until we can all talk about these things in a somewhat civilized manner, we won't get very far. I really like cars, working on them, talking about them, and driving them. But when any mention of any known issue surrounding E.V.'s is met with combative attitudes or name calling. We all lose.
There main problem is your comment of bs mate. Everything you said you've assumed the answer to and assumed incorrectly.
EVs are cheaper on average than ICE.
Charging infrastructure is better than gas. You charge at home. You charge at a station only to save your ass.
It doesn't take 2 hours to charge. Max it takes 1 hour for 100% charge state. Generally you want to charge to 80% which takes 25 minutes max.
You want to talk about it? At least look at the facts.
@@Sal3600I’m gonna go out on a limb and guess you got the C19 shot correct? If yes, that tells me what I need to know about your mindset.
You do not charge an EV out on the road like you fill up on gas. The only way EV makes any sense at all on a personal level is if you can charge at home. Almost every house has an electric service capable of charging an EV, so this isn't some massive technical hurdle. It's an inertial and emotional one.
The bigger issue than "where to charge" is that in most nations, including much of America, the power grid overall is not able to support charging of EVs at the scale required for mass adoption. This is especially true when daily usage patterns overlap with evening peak home consumption. This is not an impossible issue to fix, but scaling power generation, especially in a developed nation, can take decades.
In other nations (like much of Asia) home charging is not an option because of heavy reliance on off site parking, high rental vs ownership %ages etc. huge reliance on imported energy sources for power generation in these regions is also a geopolitical factor. Fuel can be stored, electricity, not so much. These factors are part of why Japan has been very slow to adopt EVs, for an example. In some markets they just don't make much sense currently.
Again, not insurmountable issues, but ones often overlooked.
@@Sal3600 What a crock. You wrote this as if you a lobbyist for the EV industry.
For one thing, virtually no electric grid anywhere in the world has sufficient capacity to support a full conversion to EVs.
Additionally, EVs are not at all "climate friendly". This is pure propaganda. The processing of the batteries for EVs is alone enough to make them worse then an ICE running for 15+ years.
Last time I was this early Turbowski was still co-host.
Under the chassis with grumpy Turbowski
what happend to him. to me, he was there and just gone with no explanation.
@@bucknut2000he won mega millions. He’s a Tesla ambassador now.
@@bucknut2000 in every Q&A with savagegeese this is answered.
I heard Turbowski was involved in a love triangle with Mark and Jack Singapore. Long story short, Turbowski is doing 15 years upstate.
Why am I hear wishing this videos was twice as long?! Masterfully done. I love these "Conversation" videos you make. It almost feels like it's live and your streaming it.
This was excellently done. If people would calmly talk like this, we'd be a lot farther along. Instead, people get angry and start insulting each other.
People are angry because politicians, who are supposed to represent the will of the people, decided they knew best and are cramming down bad policies. If we had reasonable options we wouldn't be in this mess. CA is outlawing new ICE vehicles by 2035. Forgetting the issue of "future laws" and whether that is even legal, there are no technology options for retail consumers. It's even worse for commercial vehicles. Gav wouldn't allow new hybrid trucks in the ports I think starting in 2025. No, only EV trucks, despite the costs. So government created this anger, intentionally.
I can only speak about my experience with the Model Y, it has been fine. Reliable transport, good performance and practicality, averaging about 240 wh/mi. real world. Cost 46k after 8k rebate.
That is incredibly expensive.
Years ago, when Giorgetto Giugiaro paid his first visit to America, safety was the big issue in the auto world. And when interviewed by a journalist, he said "if safety is your only priority, we should all be driving the same car." Fast forward to today, when emissions are the issue.
We will all be driving the same car.
And emissions dictate we all drive vehicles that are overweight, overpowered and overly expensive. I don't think so. We've got to get better battery technologies, and we will, but not on the current (All EV by 2035!) timetable.
@@cbotten106 Until solid state EV batteries stop being vaporware, there really hasn't been a breakthrough in EV battery tech since going from Lead acid to lithium ion.
Correct.
As usual, once the governmental powers that be start dictating that they know better than everyone else, and that we HAVE to all do this sort of weird religious thing where we fall in line following the same creedo for something as simple as a car: you’ve destroyed innovation, individualism, and any semblance of a free market.
“Broken ideas and broken laws.” Regulators are throwing the book at problems instead of realizing nuanced and strategic approaches are likely to be more fruitful in the long run. As always, consumers pay for it and we have ever-divided sides battling it out to no end.
We bought a 2024 Camaro and a 2024 Subie BRZ, both manual, and we intend to keep them until they make gasoline illegal.
Same😂 guess I’ll be broke when gas is 200 a gallon
That will never happen. You’ll be dealing with the consequences of climate change but gasoline isn’t going to be made illegal.
"LOL make EV's the savior of all these bad decisions". Well said Mark!
I like that this segment treads between any political side and talks about common sense, gradual, smart adoption strategies, and above all Mark is protective of the end user and consumers when it comes to practicality and affordability. Great segment.
It’s good that he doesn’t go partisan but some of his claims are just obviously wrong. EVs are quite well proven and tested technology. The Model S came out in 2012. Model 3 in 2017. How many years does it take for tech to be proven? I’ve heard all the arguments about vulnerability of the grid, as if the petroleum supply chain doesn’t have equal or more vulnerabilities.
It's the takes and knowledge like this that just keep me coming back. Phenomenal content.
They need to close the "light duty truck" loophole. In my opinion I think that will have a real impact on how many rolling tanks you see on the road and make both pedestrians and other drivers safer.
Amen. I live in Texas and the biggest trucks often have the worst, most aggressive drivers. And most are suburbanites who don’t need the towing or hauling capability. I’ve got an old Tacoma. It’s all I need for my occasional yard work and light hauling.
Better option is remove all the silly regulations that have forced cars to be too heavy, too complex, too expensive. They have regulated cars into things that people don’t like, and your solution is more regulation 😂
@@mnypit I'm not advocating for less regulation. I'm advocating for closing loopholes within regulations to have them make sense.
i cant even imagine being so sensative that you want government to step in and take care of things for you. get help
@skateinspace Not wanting Karen to run me off the road in her Ford expedition so her IPad kids make it to soccer practice on time makes me sensitive? Grow up.
The infrastructure point is the big one for me. I own a condo in an old building with street parking, it's simply not feasible to buy an all-electric but the government here in Ontario want to force it in less than 10yrs. Good luck with that, seems like a free win for whichever party promises to roll back that agenda a few years from now.
Work on escaping the beehive trap!
Wait, you can't drive somewhere to charge (like you do with gas) because you live in a condo because it's electric?
Cars like the Ioniq can charge to 80% in some 15 minutes or 30 if it's really cold.
You couldn't charge your car at the grocery store while you shop?
You couldn't charge your car while you're at work?
You couldn't charge your car while getting a meal at a restaurant?
You couldn't charge your car anywhere but in your condo?
That's funny. You already do that, just at a gas station.
@@tim3172 Yeah because by your own admission charging takes 30 minutes or more, you're going to find charging spots taken while people do all the things you just mentioned. I'll gladly pay the 'premium' for gas and refuel in 5 minutes thanks.
Yeah, on-street charging is a large problem, but I see it as a fundamentally solvable engineering problem.
@archzilla, what would it take to reconsider your position? You mentioned availability was an issue; what if DC fast chargers had availability comparable to liquid fuel pumps?
What if Level 2 chargers were in every on-street parking spot? Or some combination of the previous two options?
I think there are ways to make it work, and they all involve massive infrastructure work. But I don't think it's impossible.
@@tim3172 Refueling a regular car takes less than 5 minutes, and you can even take a jerrycan and walk to nearby gas station and then refuel your car where you left it if you ran out of fuel. EV become huge burden if you ran out of charge for some reason.
Great video, thank you. I think Toyotas approach to hybrids is a winning strategy. You will see a new generation of hybrids coming up that will improve peek thermal efficiency from 40% to 45%.
If Toyota has a winning strategy why are they failing in China? Every month Toyota sales in China are down, month over month over month. It's simply they are sticking with something that is not actually that good. China is a few years ahead of everyone else in the move to EV's, and the same will happen to them in other parts of the world over the next few years.
@@dlewis787My two cents: EVs in China are crazy cheap and are widely supported. Also the Chinese don't really like the Japanese due to their history. Hence Toyota not doing great.
@@kiefershanks4172 Its the first part, rather then the later. The Japanese brands have struggled with EV's and Software and that is what the Chinese buy really cares about. All of the western brands have struggled with software except for Tesla and thats why they are also seeing major issues in China. But what is happening to Toyota in China right now is their future in Europe in ~24 months if they don't do some drastic rethinking.
@@dlewis787yeah, pretty much everyone is failing in China because the Chinese consumer cares about big screens and contemporary technology that breaks down easily. In other words, pretty much everything that the Japanese and Western markets stand against. Oh, and they love to buy domestically. There’s a reason why China makes up 3 of the top 20 best selling car brands in the world based on their national car cales alone (BYD, Changan and Geely taking up 12th, 15th and 19th respectively). And do keep in mind that China is only ahead of everyone else in the EV race because their cars dirt cheap, and their cars are dirt cheap because they’re built very poorly. Build quality in Chinese cars is practically nonexistent, with most cars in China being measured based on how much big iPad they can stuff onto the dash rather than the quality of materials in the car or its ability to last a long time. In other words, the Chinese consumer isn’t looking at the long term. He’s looking at the short term. As I said in the beginning, it’s a mentality that clashes with the Japanese mindset of building for long term sustainability rather than short term growth, hence why Japanese cars sell so poorly in China
@@dlewis787 Doesn't China heavily subsidize their EV car market? I could be wrong, but I think that i what I have read.
The only "affordable" car left is Versa. This is an enormous problem.
Rumored to be cancelled soon.
And it's such a sh!tbox 90% of Nissan customers would rather kick in $4000 bucks for a Kicks.
That is certainly the situation for the US (& Canada) market, but not for other global markets - most of which still value subcompacts in all sorts of trim levels & even manual transmissions.
@@cbotten106 Americans always cry how there's no affordable cars but they don't buy them when they have the option😂 i had a Versa as a company car, it takes you from A to B in a pretty cheap manner. Yes it doesn't have heated or ventilated seats nor does it massage your balls but it gets the job done.
@@cbotten106 At least you can put a box in the back without having to stuff it in a 2nd row door.
You guys should do a video that promotes the better value cars. Get exposure on cheap but well built cars
Do any exist?
Where are they?
They've done many of these types of vehicles in the past. They're actually some of my favorite videos.
Yall are one of the best car based youtubers out there. Telling the consumers what they need to hear instead of just telling people what the manufacturers want you to tell them
I appreciate you for all that you said here mark, this was well intentioned, no biased and exactly what us in the auto industry is dealing with. I will be reviewing this for a while to use as taking points for my clients. Again, thank you!
Well said!
As a Nissan Hybrid owner, one big problem is finding a dealer that is qualified to service the hybrid side of the drivetrain. The dealer that we bought the car from is not qualified to fix our car for hybrid issues.
Yikes
and you know that and still buy it ???
Not an issue for Toyota
As a former nissan tech, sell it and get something else.
I thought Nissan was a pretty big company. If you bought is new, surely you don't live an _astronomical_ distance away from a dealership or qualified mechanic shop?
I paid off my lease early on my 2022 Volvo XC60 B6 in order to get a new 2023 Lexus GX60. I wanted to get the GX before it went away with the intention of owning it for a long time. Overall, the Volvo was a nice vehicle, but I leased it for a reason -- a super complicated drivetrain from a brand with a very sketchy reliability record. I can only imagine the cost of maintenance and repair once outside of warranty. The GX is loaded and it wasn't cheap. I'm financing at 2.5% over 4 years, but I anticipate having it for a long time without much drama. This brings me to my point. I am not an early adopter and I am not willing to help industry finance its way through this maze. It's anyones guess how this will ultimately shake out. So until then, I'll wait it out in an old-school vehicle with proven reliability.
Excellent choice. Had a GX for eleven years. Never missed a beat. Sold it last year and the wife wanted a RX. Definitely more whiz bang, but I can't see it lasting like a GX. If the RX starts having issues in five years, I'll search out and get a low mile, minty 2023 GX.
Volvos have not been those bulletproof reliable machines since before I was born
Good choice. I wish I bought a used one of those instead of a new 4Runner
I just picked up a 2022 GX 460 today for the same reasons. It's a bit more expensive than what I was looking to spend, but Lexus really perfected it with the 2022-2023 model year before adding more cost and complexity in 2024.
Good old fashioned NA, port injected V8. Smooth, simple, refined, and built to last.
It's a breath of fresh air in today's disposable world.
NA engines forever.
Honestly, I dont care about EV or Fuel. I just want good suspension that will handle potholes, but also suspension that will minimize bodyroll. And physical buttons for climate & radio
Moder car suspension apart from really expensive cars is piss poor, nobody talks about it
and a suspension that doesn't need to be replaced at 100,000 miles for $4000
@@coaxyz I think your ire is aimed at the wrong component. Suspension technology and design has never been better, but the reason ride quality feels poor are the tires. Specifically, the ultra low wall tires that designers specify. When there is virtually no compliance in the tire side way because it’s so narrow, the suspension must do all the work, and it’s impossible to make a smooth ride this way.
Great video, but my main takeaway is that a guy that has driven MANY cars is enamored with the Lucid Air. I need to test drive one of those.
Off topic but eagerly waiting an update on your 2024 red Honda Pilot Elite. Thanks.
I like the freedom aspect of cars, you can jump in them and go wherever you want at high rates of speeds. With gas cars you don’t need to think where to go, there’s gas station absolutely everywhere and they just work. I can drive for hours with the A/C blasting and still cover hundreds of miles. I went to some amazing remote areas that no EVs could take me. And there’s cost… you can buy a 5k$ Honda Civic right now and take it across the states. A 5k$ electric car will be a 2011 Nissan Leaf with 60 miles of range.
I wish one of these car vloggers would organize a race. A Tesla Model 3 and a Toyota Prius drive from San Francisco to New York with two drivers in each so no need for overnight motel stops. Just straight through with only food, "fuel-ups" and bathroom breaks. I'd like to see the time difference driving cross country in an EV vs ICE. Anyone tried this yet?
@@sprague49 All over UA-cam horror stories of EV road trips that take several days extra because of all the charging issues
@@sprague49I know a guy that moved across the country in a model 3. I can sum that experience up by saying he traded it in immediately
@@sprague49 check Out of Spec Motoring for EV road tripping content
One of the best and most concise contributions to this topic I’ve seen. Thank you so much.
Great video Mark.
The point about massive EVs is something that is so backwards it's hard to fathom. Somehow EVs are supposed to be about efficiency and green and yet we have multiple companies pushing out gigantic monstrosities that weigh close to 10,000 pounds and are absurdly fast. It makes no sense, and by the governments mandates they would rather us trade in a Prius for a EV Hummer or Cybertruck, since all that maters is being dogmatic pure EV no matter any other consideration. Lunacy.
Usually when people think something is crazy it's because they don't understand it. The average EV is 2 to 2.5x cleaner for the environment. The Hummer EV is a stupid project but last year they had a whole quarter where they only sold two of them. 2!
Let's not pretend that the silliest version of something represents all of them ok?
Is the average ICEV a Ford Raptor?
EV's are only 10% of new car sales, you have plenty of ICEV's to choose from. And for at least the next 10yrs you'll be able to buy a new one.
But you won't.
In ten years you'd be nuts to buy ICE because there will be no one that wants them on the used market in 15yrs.
So don't worry, you'll be fine. You'll change your preference well before anyone has to shove one down your throat!
@@bearclaw5115 It is really cleaner though? Lithium and Cobalt-mining is terribly destructive, plus EVs just don't last as long as ICE cars, so they need replacement more often.
@@bearclaw5115 EVs are basically e-waste when buying used, while ICE hold some value (any car is 50% off when driven out of dealership though), and it will not change unless batteries become cheap AND reliable.
@@bearclaw5115 2 times cleaner my ass, they only become cleaner than gas cars past 100k miles
@@EvoraGT430This is false. Lithium mining is pretty clean all things considered, especially the process used for Lithium hydroxide (Sun evaporates water).
Cobalt is not that dirty. Pretty similar to steel and aluminium. Most EVs do not contain Cobalt anymore, as Iron Phosphate is cheaper. Cobalt is however needed to make gasoline.
There are lifecycle studies that consistently show that EVs are cleaner by a massive margin.
Direct injection has already shortened the lives of engines. I’ve had a CR-V need a new cylinder head at 89,000 miles because of the carbon buildup.
Something like that in a Honda used to be unheard of. Unfortunately, ever tightening fuel economy standards are forcing automakers to do more of this, even on hybrids (where it wasn’t necessary before)
This is why I pump premium gas... better combustion, less particles, less buildup. It sucks, I know.
To be fair, some manufacturers seem to have DI figured out better than others. Mazda has been using it since 2012 and has little to no issues with carbon buildup due to running the coolant lines away from the intake valves so they run hot enough to burn off carbon deposits.
@@2AMinLosAngeles Skyactiv engines still get carbon build up though, I own one. They simply don't get gunked up as fast.
STP makes a DIY valve cleaner that auto sprays in the intake while you raise the RPMs. That keeps the valves clean if you do it every now and then. Toyota and Ford do it right by keeping port injection still.
BG 44K once a year in cars with DI will keep them clean. Own a number of trucks for my business with DI and they all run like new. I’m confident this makes a big difference.
@@richsimpson450 no cleaner thrown into the fuel system will clean carbon off the intake valves dude. It simply doesnt ever get there. You have to physically spray something into the intake, or walnutclean them when it gets bad.
Disabling EGR, running PCV catchcans and premium fuel are actual preventatives. Dont get fooled by snakeoil in a can...
Great video Mark! Unfortunately, it is not just cars that are afflicted with this issue. I am in the middle of a kitchen renovation and I am seeing the same problems with kitchen appliances and to a lesser extent cabinets and countertops. Lots of companies trying to sell feature packed garbage with poor warranties and no one to provide reliable service or repair. Just spend more and more money for items that do not last as long as older versions. Similar to cars, one has to be vary when putchasing something with all the bells and whistles.
Nobody builds a durable refrigerator ice maker/water dispenser. They all die within a few years. Low expectations are helpful.
@@herrbrahms You might be able to say the same thing about cars in the future.
Car tecnologies should work for everyone. As an example when Hurricane Maria hit here in Puerto Rico in 2017, we did not have electricity from 4 up to 12 months. Even if we had all the EV infrastructure in place, EVs would have been a nightmare during that time. The generators available were needed for powering up everything strictly essential.
Solar power it's available now but I wouldn't want to choose between charging a car or having a working refrigerator.
@@videochu and yet you need electricity to run gas stations. Mmmmmmm….. Funny I used to live in the carribeans and ended with Gas shortage after a hurricane, and all the gas station where out due to no electricity, not mentioning the harbor was damaged and ships could not deliver gas for a while too. No matter what you drive, Mother Nature will find a way to screw up your plans.
Heyyy, otro Puertorro. Saludos. Si, María dolió y nos demostro q la infraestructura electrica no sirve y con Luma al mando, menos todavía.
If everyone had EV's when that hurricane hit you could feed your house and the grid from the giant battery in the car. EV's allow for so much more flexibility that is simply not possible with ICE. They can also be charged from any fuel source. It would have not been a nightmare it would make things better. You can also charge the car and power the refrigerator at the same time from solar.
@@dlewis787
I am fully independent. Solar panels, EV, …
That’s the best solution.
@@lumberjackdreamer6267 Yeah, but an arrangement like that isn't within many people's finances. I do agree.
I am an Engineer for the South Korean brands (north american market). The performance of internal combustion vehicles is detrimented because of government regulations, forcing us to reduce torque to meet emissions and fuel economy. The revenue margin on plug-in hybrids is minimal, unless we talk about high performance vehicles (like mentioned in the video), and the cost is just too high for most customers. Automakers are backing up from only doing EV development, as sales and market share are not as expected. MSRP for new vehicles, regardless of Propulsion Systems, is ridiculous, but EV cost is just outrageous. In my view, the best option for a good mixture of performance/fuel economy/cost, is to go regular hybrid. Still, I will always prefer internal combustion, as the system is simpler, easier to maintain, and there is no need to worry about high voltage battery replacement over the years.
Good video guys, I enjoyed it.
Right. You’re an automotive engineer but you think that multiples of moving parts equals simpler? Not very convincing.
@@rhineman and you think less moving parts = must be simpler, you aren't doing much better.
@@cj09beiraexplain.
He meant that ICE is more simple than a hybrid drive.
Most new cars are being cost cut to the bone
On the quality side yes, but instead of letting that affect the price, they instead cram them full of a bunch of trash tech and jack up the price + leave you with a bunch of repair bills in the near future.
Yet still costs 1.5x what it should because the government said we need 500 safety features (which btw have not increased safety)
Cost cut? All power windows/seats, all with infotainment and bunch of safety electronics... People are spoiled.
and all the budget is spent on "technology"
a recipe for failure
@@rosgoncharuk2403 They cost cut materials, durability, and engineering, while lavishing on the tech bloat
Excellent video, and it's exactly what I've been saying since Pete Bootygieg made the comparison of an EV to the smart phone, which just demonstrated the absolute cluelessness of politicians. We readily adopted the smart phone because they made it appealing and we WANTED to go there... it wasn't shoved down our throat.
Who is shoving an EV down your throat. What a stupid saying that I'm sorry to hear even Mark repeat. You can buy whatever car you like!
Well said. I agree. The transition needs to be at a pace society can swallow and companies, economies, and geopolitics can do in a manner that is sustainable, fair and balanced.
Excellent analysis. Something else to note. I addition to the crazy prices for the cars and charger installations, insurance is insane. Why? Because you get tapped just the wrong way and you’re looking at a battery replacement. Since the battery replacement will cost damn near the value of the car (or exactly the value of the car given the crazy depreciation of most electric cars), your insurance company will total it. So the financial and environment hit is much worse than ICE vehicles. Electric vehicles are just nowhere near where they need to be to be truly viable transportation.
here in the philippines there are still remote areas with no electricity.
where tge basic mode of transportion is a motorcycle
Solar and Tesla Power Wall? Extremely expensive, though…
Solar panels are super cheap, easy, reliable.
Motorcycle is way more efficient than an EV anyway. E-bikes could easily be charged on solar and their much smaller battery/motor would make them less expensive. China already forced all scooters and motorcycles to electric in their cities, so there's already a ton of cheap conversion equipment. Bicycles/motorcycles are much more efficient than cars, but in the US, people don't pay attention to them so it's dangerous to drive them compared to areas that use them more.
Developing nations are going to be laughed at by developed nations when it comes to EVs.
EVs are a scam.
@@YuenanCao you really don't have a clue how people live outside your bubble :)
I want an EV, but I live in a big city with no garage or driveway. Until charging infrastructure allows me to somehow fully charge super quickly (like in 10-15 mins) at a supercharger that can be found everywhere, I don’t think I can live with one. Will that day ever come? One can only dream…
In the words of DJ Khalid, I appreciate you.
Spot on information and excellent delivery.
I like this type of evolutionary video. It’s like the manual transmission. Nobody likes to be told HOW to drive. If I’m spending the money, no one tells me how to drive.
I hope this video is viewed by millions. Well done. You can’t just take away every job. Bingo.
The video had nothing to do with the employment sector!
Why is it always about the safety of the occupants of the vehicles when it comes to accidents, but not the safety of those outside the vehicle? I think Volvo was the only one who advertised about this but that only really worked with vehicles with low hoods. Now that everything's an SUV or truck, how do companies account for the safety of others outside the vehicle with these high hoods? Plus, with the addition of weight for vehicle safety it just makes them heavier and even more lethal at lower speeds. Wouldn't it be easier to remove some of the safety features that have been created and added for people who can't properly drive? Also limiting speeds as well? It'll make cars lighter, more efficient, and safer by making people who operate them feel less safe and more careful drivers. That last part was a stretch
Very true
Actually we have higher hood lines due to silly regs. Some regulators decided that they wanted to protect people's knees with higher hoodlines. But once the front of the vehicle is higher everything behind it gets higher too. And the higher sills reduce visibility and the higher weight creates additional issues too.
BTW, we already limit speeds.
@@bearclaw5115Only in Europe, the US has no pedestrian crash test regulation
Simply put the US has zero pedestrian crash test regulations. This is why Cybertruck can never be sold in Europe, because they do. Many of us, myself included, thought Cybertruck was never going to happen because they’d want to sell it in Europe too.
Interesting topic, thanks for sharing. I attended a local Township meeting, and there was a presentation from a consulting company which was hired by the regional government to study the progress of emissions reduction. Although they were paid very well by our tax dollars, the data was two years old, and frankly outdated. The results were dismal in meeting a 50% reduction in emissions by 2035, and 80% by 2050. Since the study started pre 2019 there was only a small dip in the emissions (from all sectors including industry and transportation) due to the timing of people being forced to stay home. Otherwise the data was fairly flat. However the message was very biased towards electrification of vehicles. It’s a rural community, farming is a livelihood of many who live here, and the message was we need to stop driving trucks, SUV’s, and equipment to meet unattainable targets. The town needs electric buses etc, and businesses need to allow people to work from home. The Mayor listened patiently and finally spoke up with a comment similar to “good luck with those ideas, I’ve been trying for more than ten years with no success, please follow up with the Township and Municipal Governments to tell me how to do it? Ok, let’s carry on. Whats next on the agenda?” Interesting.
I think tons of people including me wouldn’t have as much of a problem with EV’s and electricifying things if they just gave people the choice between ICE and EV. Completely gutting gas powered cars just isn’t the way, it feels forced
Edit: love videos like these Mark, as someone who feels that they were born too late to enjoy the best of what automobiles had to offer, it’s nice to hear people older than me talk this way about something I’m so passionate about
Most of that born too late stuff is simply someone buying into old people selling nostalgia. I'll take a smart phone and and EV over a party line and and oil burner any day.
Insightful video, well done. As a consumer who is representative of the "average buyer", I think you touched on some really important points in this video. I don't trust the quality of EV's, and I do not want to pay the prices they are asking for them either. Charging IS a problem, especially if you happen to live a more rural life - anyone denying that is just trolling. The thought of spending 50-70,000 on a new car, then have to spend another 3000 to install a plug (more if you have to upgrade) is crazy, I simply won't do it. I really like your points about a throw away culture nulling the perceived benefit of EV's. I think you hit the nail on the head there.
Great summary of the challenges of this transition… you really summed it up incredibly well!
Colin Chapman said it, simplify and than add lightness. A weight limit on car types would motivate to think more efficiently. Think about better materials, better manufacturing. Makes cars more simple, more fuel efficient, cheaper to build, takes less resources, more environmental friendly and also make them more agile and nimble so speaking fun to drive.
If your car gets heavy, you need more power, stronger brakes, more crash structure, stronger suspension and so on, what makes your car even more heavy.
More power helps in one direction and that while beeing compromised. Less weight helps in every direction.
As a Miata MX-5 daily driver, I know what I am talking about.
You were extremely clear in describing how nebulous the situation is. That is life in general ain't it...
I will never personally own an EV but I’m cool with other people owning them
I am too but many are not. Charging stations are vandalized pretty regularly and random assaults on Cybertrucks have happened. Might blame Musk for that second one.
@@cbotten106 I think EV vandalism is over-reported.
I can use a Geo Metro or a Yaris for the rest if my life, I can wait, or ignore EVs. I'm riding a bicycle as much as I can.
I don't think others care about whether or not you are cool with their decisions.
Well Stated. Would like to see large cities (Chicago, NYC, Philly, Boston etc) become less car centric and put emphasis on public transportation, bicycles, walking to get around while we enact many of the policies you mentioned for rural and suburban areas with one personal wish....we tax GIGANTIC Trucks and SUVs more so not every soccer Mom is driving around in massive vehicles and can't see anything directly in front because their too high up. Always hit like on your videos. You and Jack are great.
The issue with that is that soccer mom wants to drive that model. We all do things we like to do that passes other people off.
One problem is that the cities you mention are too dangerous for anyone but the most brave or desperate to take public transportation. No NY soccer mom is going to take her darling girls to practice from Turtle Bay to Harlem on the subway.
What’s the point of good city infrastructure if the city is so dangerous?
Some American cities are so dangerous that they don’t even exist to me. Let them rot with getting what they vote for.
@@sprague49 Lay off the faux newz for a bit mate.
Lol if they tax big vehicles people will still buy them, theyll just buy older ones. People are delusional and think they NEED bigger cars.
Great conversation. The "throw away economy of cars" feels real. So many good talking points. We need to revise standards that will allow better and lighter cars to be the norm while providing a reasonable runway where manufactures have realistic goals to meet, and a reasonable time frame to accomplish them. The regulations should be guardrails that lead to better and better products rather than what we have now. Lastly, can we get pop up headlights back, please? There's something cool about pushing a button and physically transforming your car's exterior.
A very honest conversation.... we need more conversations like this on multiple topics.
Hey man. I really enjoyed this segment from you, and was enlighten on the topics you discussed. In addition, bro that shade of blue your shirt is really compliment you well. Great job overall!
you didn't even mention the apartment dwellers and their complete inability to install power charging.
we all have been to los angeles...this is the ONLY way you can live...looking out your window into the courtyard and its dirty, unusable pool and directly at the apartments across from you
i just read how today the homeowner is going the way of the dinosaur and, in fact, homeownership is out of the reach of most young families.
and no power to charge their forced purchase?
and the regulators, the unelected bureaucrats, they have no clue about this????
They do know, they just don't care. it's not like you will be funding their reelection campaigns....
Someone will get the bright idea to require charging stations at all apartment complexes, because the people around us believe in free lunch
@@AndelaPandela EACH parking space will require its own....remember that EVs will be mandatory in this blessed new world order.
so ain't no way people are going to wait around for their neighbors to charge up. and that is a LOT of costs added to your rental agreement.
@AndelaPandela As long as we keep voting for politicians happy to spend other people's money like it is free lunch, this will continue. But normies don't run for office and why would they?
@@r2dad282that’s all politicians at this point. It’s a no win situation
The first two points for entry into electric car ownership, 1. Money and 2. A home, for home charging, rules out most folks id wager.
We have to remember that no one can buy a house, the cost is astronomical, and not just for folks who are gen z, but for most millennials as well.
We also have to remember that if you’re financially responsible, you have to be making well over six figures to afford a $50-$70,000 car. The median income in the United States is what, between 60 and 70,000?
These cars aren’t for normal, regular folks. They never were.
We are completely basing regulatory models off of the top like 15% of earners in the United States. That’s absolutely insane.
Sure am glad I know how to fix and maintain older cars, can't imagine buying anything newer than a 2019 for years to come.
We are entering a world where all cars are mechanically totaled after 8 to 10 years.
Great video, great points.
Tax auto manufacturers on a sliding scale that makes larger or heavier vehicles more expensive than smaller cars(currently the system is completely backwards).
Allow range extenders in vehicles and still tax them as EVs. As long as the wheels are solely driven by electric motors.
ADAS should not be considered in a vehicle's safety rating. Automatic emergency braking saves lives, but the rest of the systems seem to just make lazier worse drivers, and cause the cost of vehicle repairs to be insane.
Too smart of a regulation to be passed by a politician who just does what his donor says
Thank you for this video. Clearly very well thought out. I found myself agreeing with every point.
Good discussion. I think the missing element is that there are many in government who have no desire for people to have personal vehicles. Therefore, many of these policies are designed to make it impossible for people to have vehicles.
Hybrid yes, ev meh; love your view point, you hit the nail on thr head. No more throw away cars
It what world are EVs “throwaway” cars? The battery packs will last 8-10 years (easily) and 95% of the materials can then be recycled by companies like Redwood Materials for new vehicles.
Like, if you don’t like EVs because of the weight, or infrastructure isn’t great near you, totally fine. But you don’t need to spout silly oil lobby bullshit.
@@OptimumSlinky yeah, I'm not an EV fan, but people in the comments sections just talk out of their asses. There are many 8 to 10 year old Teslas driving around. From some review reviews there have been reports that some of those old EVs have only lost a small amount of their original battery capacity. Some commenters on these videos are so ignorant that they even call Toyota hybrids disposable and unreliable, even though there are a bunch of 15 year old Priuses driving around without any issues.
@@OptimumSlinky10% typical degradation after 10 years is really good. It should last longer than that.
@@Sal3600 AutoTrader UK is literally doing a series of vids right now with an 8 year old Tesla Model S that has over 430,000 miles on the clock. EVs are FAR more durable than 90% of the ICE cars on the road.
@@OptimumSlinky The batteries last a lot longer than 8 - 10 years. We already have EV's with batteries that are 15 years old, and have recently discovered EV's from the early 2000's where the batteries are still good. These things do not degrade like people thought. And with LFP batteries becoming the norm they basically do not degrade since they are a piece of iron. There are companies that are over 10k charge cycles on LFP batteries with minimal wear.
My car requirements:
- Gas powered
- No screens for critial functions; including the speedometer
- Buttons for basically everything
- Minimal "smartness". If there is blue tooth for playing music there should be an AUX or USB input also
- As much safety things as possible.
< EUR 25 000
I've find these cars from around 2016-2020.They have radar, angle detection, automatic breaking, an infotainment but also buttons for AC and everything else and analog speedometer. The silly depreciation is mostly over. I can fix and repair many things myself.
AUX? Lolz
I just want cars that were fun. Now everything is designed to be for NPCs. The only enthusiast cars are now 40k starting.
BMW has gone insane with the horrible displays and lack of controls. Not to mention purposely ugly cars.
@@Rew123Genuinely curious, what's funny about auxiliary audio?
Those were/are my requirements too and I got a new Camry for about that much back in 2020. Now you’re limited to a compact car if you want a new car. CPO car prices are also pretty high for what they are.
Solid discussion points. Im going to use this to help educate others about thr complexities of it all. Thank you for making this!
Best summary of the situation I've seen so far.
I can lease an EV for the same amount as my Subaru Outback. That's what I plan to do. Better for me and better for the planet. 😎
We need light and simple cars. Diesel for long distances, petrol for fun, a cheap EV with a small battery for everyday commute ..
Also, there shoule be a weight limit, like 2000 kg. It could even be limited per seats, like 1000kg+ 100kg/person .. or something. Weight kills everyting!
Look at the Citroen Oli Concept from 2022. That is the way, that should be followed by every automaker. Its design is questionable (yet i'm personally like it), but the thinking behind it is futureproof. It's simple, clever, LIGHT, so it can do like 250 miles with its 40kWh battery ..
And please, get rid of the screens, we want BUTTONS!
In California, political dogma does not allow 2 of your 3 options. The DNC (which represents 1/2 the country) has a war on energy in the USA. natural gas = evil = petrol. only solar and wind are good power sources. And never mind nuclear power.
@@ocriaf Good thinking, ocraif. I was 20 years old in 1974 when the average American car was a 20 foot long behemoth. We had a Middle East oil embargo and the price of gasoline went from 35 cents a gallon to 70 cents a gallon. It forced the auto manufacturers to cut out unnecessary size in cars. GM came out with downsized Impalas, Olds, Buicks, and Pontiacs. They were smaller and lighter, yet had MORE interior room! As you noted, we could drive more intelligently and efficiently with the correct mix of vehicle types and sizes.
@@OldRustySteeleunfortunately however, conservatives would never allow this because their precious trucks and muscle cars are just too much of a price to pay
Edit: also, gas prices are on the rise again, yet manufacturers have no wish to make smaller cars. The overall market is still trending towards bigger, more massive vehicles. And the worst part is: PEOPLE STILL BUY THEM, and they still sell better than any small car. My point with all of this is that the problem doesn’t just lie on the manufacturer. It lies on the consumer too. To solve the problem, we need smarter consumers who don’t try to buy the biggest thing on the road and instead try to live within their means and get by with smaller vehicles too
@@mrsoisauce9017 Greetings! Yeah, I must be a unicorn. I’m a conservative, but I’ve never felt the need to own a gargantuan vehicle. My bubba truck is a little ‘95 Tacoma 4-cyl stickshift. Hauls every thing I need. Got a 2003 Corvette as my fun car, but with the 6-speed stick, I get nearly 30 mpg at 75 mph (I’m only turning 1600 rpm at that speed in 6th gear). My wife drives a Toyota Highlander, but even that is smaller than so many of the SUV’s now. If we could all downsize just a bit, we would be better off. Bottom line we don’t need to switch to mini-Yugos, we just need to downsize a little bit and it would go a long way.
Require a commercial license for every vehicle larger than a Tacoma.
Great vid Mark. A very reasonable and well informed take(s) on the situation. Thanks.
This is the smartest video I've seen addressing this topic. I feel exactly how you feel about the future of cars right now. The 2020s will be interesting to look back on when hopefully we figure out what direction we want to go in when it comes to personal transportation for the masses. Maybe we'll look back at this era like we did the 1970s
Transitions are hard, remember 70's emissions cars (all pretty bad). Yes electric infrastructure needs to improve, but pure EVs are so much more mechanically simple, they will win in the end. But, the country seems to just want to argue and fight, I no longer have much faith in it solving any of our problems.
They are more mechanically simple, unfortunately the automotive industry is hard at work packing them full of useless shit that breaks like any other car.
@@daniels2761 Mechanical simplicity ≠ reliability
They are still electronically complex and hardly anyone can work on them too
Big prices seem to be driving some people back to small cars. Let's hope this trend continues.
Might be a/the plan.
Agreed!
Married, 2 kids, doing fairly well and we’re considering a Jetta,Civic, Carolla etc as our next car. Short of a Family Vacation, it’ll be our Daily Commuter
Excellent video and commentary on current issues.
Love my RAV4 Prime and feel that Toyota was wise in taking the split approach for adoption to EV. It's helped ease me into the mindset of EV ownership. Wish other brands would take the same strategic approach going forward.
What a well thought out video! So spot on. Thank goodness for Chevron going away. I really believe the electric mandate is dead man walking. When the EPA decides if it should enforce these mpg fines, they are going to know that the manufacturers will take them to court and they actually have to show in the law these mandates. We will see if they actually even try enforce these fines.
As a long time EV owner (Model S since 2013, Model 3 added in 2018) I agree with what you have said. Electric is the future, but there are issues right now. I’ve had range anxiety only 3 times, in my 11 years of EV driving. I remember these well! 😊 Two were due to chargers being further apart in 2013-2014 time, and one, due to unexpectedly high cross winds on a mountain pass silently eating my range quickly! All these were on long distance journeys.
For the 95% of the drivers, it’s the daily commute, and that’s no problem at all with EVs. EXCEPT for renters with no access to good charger going infrastructure.
The charging infrastructure sucks because they make little margin, compared to gas stations. Most margin for gas stations is from the merchandise and food sales in the gas station. However, almost all EV chargers are separately operated from convenience stores. This should change. In fact, existing gas stations which own some chargers also, would be the ideal way to do this, IMHO.
That's a good idea. Those EV drivers might want a bag of overpriced chips and a cold beverage too.
BP is working on this now
Yeah, the margin on the fuel itself is razor-thin. Gas and diesel are practically loss leaders. Over the past century, entrepreneurs have built up a business model around selling stuff to motorists that they would want to buy at a fuel stop. The stores are designed around a customer experience that takes only as much time as a fuel stop.
The charging infrastructure needs a complementary business model that will create incentives for the chargers to be built in appropriate numbers and properly maintained. We're early enough in the life cycle of this type of product that no one's figured it out yet.
Well thought out and rational video. I would love an EV as a daily with an ICE weekend or special car.
How is buying two cars environmentally friendly?
@@rjbiker66 They never said it was? I agree with their sentiment though, an EV works better as a daily driver than an ICE car ever could assuming you're in a position to install a home charger etc.
@@rjbiker66Why are you demanding others be environmentally friendly? We each get to live our own lives.
@@user-vx7vi3vq1c I'm not. What's the point of EVs? If it's to save the world as its being promoted then it's rather hypocritical to have a backup ICE vehicle when your EV can't do the job.
@@rjbiker66 People like them. Thats the point.
Completely agree with all the points you make in this article, all eloquently put - and I’m equally aghast at the state of the car industry, and depressed about its current and future trajectory.
As you state, the decision to pursue EVs, and force them on the market/consumers, is (catastrophically) ill-informed - made by politicians, both in America and Europe. All based on ideology, over scientific fact.
I remember an interview with Prof Gordon Murray, two or three years ago. Apparently, he sits, for has sat, on the board of an independent body that has advised government here in the UK, on all aspects affecting road transport - both private and commercial; road infrastructure, fuels, etc (anything and everything). The panel is comprised of industry experts and scientists. The original decision to force all motor manufacturing to EV was made without referring to that body at all.
The focus on the single aspect that an EV does not emit CO2 while running has completely blinded the decision-makers to the elemental fact that EVs are not actually green at all.
The mining of Lithium and Copper is catastrophically poisonous to the environment. It also directly generates acute cancers in those working the mines (bone cancer, leukaemia, organ cancers, extreme birth defects, you name it) - and mostly in poorer countries around the world such as Africa, where PPE is limited or non-existent.
Further, disposing of spent batteries (at the end of their service life) is even more poisonous to the environment. Some of the battery chemicals can be recycled, but that requires a furnace - which will never be powered by solar panels, wind, or wave power - and then you’re left with an even more concentrated toxic waste to dispose of. Metal chemical waste remains poisonous, not for thousands, or hundreds of thousands, but millions of years. The only way to dispose of these poisons is to seal them up, bury them and leave them. Eventually, though, it will leach into the water table - and we will ingest it.
The big elephant in the room is the basic question of where all the electricity will come from. A household charging a car overnight approximately doubles its electrical energy usage. Scaled-up nationally, that leaves any energy grid with a huge problem. The only ‘clean’(-ish) way to currently meet that demand this is to dramatically increase the building of nuclear fission reactor power stations.
Here in the UK, Government has commissioned Rolls Royce to design and build a projected 16 such power stations. They will be small, but most will be built well away from any coastline, where there is no supply of water, sufficient to flood the reactor in case of an ‘accident’. Of course, we are told these are very new advanced designs which will be very safe. Good luck selling that to the public. I’m very sure the reaction to this will be exactly the same in the US.
The United Nations publishes a ‘state of the world’ report (I believe) every 4 years. It’s huge, and covers all aspects of socio-political and economic interest, including environment. The current report, states that all road transport, including commercial vehicles, accounts for 14% of global CO2 output. Commercial vehicles account for 65% of this pollution. That means only approx 6-7% of global CO2 is produced by private passenger vehicles. Most CO2 pollution is produced by industry and agriculture.
The UN report also states that China increases its CO2 output by more than the entire national output of the UK every year - just increases it. And that’s just China.
Sadly, I think the first two high-profile casualties of enforcing the move to electrification will be Lotus and then Jaguar-Landrover. I’m afraid I can see both becoming just a badge on a Chinese car, like MG.
I truly fear for the global motor industry - just as I’m sure you do. It may realise too late that it’s allowed itself to be painted into a corner. Tens of millions of jobs around the world depend on the motor industry - and there is also the potential knock-on effect on global economy.
Hydrogen combustion seems a practical potential solution. Many motor manufacturers around the world have been conducting practical engineering studies. The CEO of Toyota has very recently stated he thinks EV will only comprise a maximum 30% of car sales.
JCB conducted a study into electrifying earth-moving vehicles and equipment. They worked-out that their mid-range earth-mover - a 20 metric ton machine - would require between 8 and 9 metric tons a of batteries alone to power it. Then there is the fact that those sorts of machines often work a 2-shift work-cycle per day. No company can afford an expensive machine like that to be idle while charging.
JCB have been through a long technology and development programme, and are currently building production examples of hydrogen combustion earth-moving vehicles for sale. I’m very sure Caterpillar in the US must be doing the same.
Volvo will have a hydrogen combustion articulated truck cab/tractor on sale on 2026.
I’m sorry I’ve rather gone-on a bit but I’m as fed-up as you to see cars becoming ever more complicated, expensive and over-weight.
Many thanks for the channel.
We’re a family of 5 with one income. We recently had to buy a van to move everyone. We ended up choosing the 3.5L Odyssey over the other hybrid options. Many things influenced our final decision, but one of the main ones was the fact that many of the mechanics I trust don’t really work on hybrids. I didn’t want to be forced to pay the dealer repair fees when something needs repair 10 yrs from now. Great video, by the way.
My neighbour has 2 Tesla and just level one changes them, they are constantly plugged in. He never has any problems
Yeah, just own a home with 2 parking spaces and buy two 50k vehicles. problem solved!
@@TheEightSixEightEV leases are super cheap because of the tax credit loop hole. Used EV prices are crashing and will continue to go down as people turn in their leases.
@@TheEightSixEightwhile people with 2 car garages continue to buy gas guzzlers for $50k +
Remember when 4 transmission replacements woudl cost $1800 for a good one that wont fail again.... Gm 8 speed is $7k and will fail in the exact same way. Dont forget the labor, $12k job. 🤦♀️. Bleading people dry. Sure you could trade and pay the $8k to get rid of the car. But now you have to take on more debt. Its just a no win.
You could go old (2000's) and reliable. But new cars are so strong in accidents, now you are playing with your life.
I'm excited to see what things look like in 10 years once many of the current issues are sorted, we have fast chargers everywhere, and a cleaner way to get around. But in the mean time, I'm going to be sticking with my 10-20 year old cars as long as I can until all this gets sorted out. We're in a transition period, and I gate the idea of buying something as expensive as a car during a transition. All it takes is a small shift in standards for what was the latest and greatest to be out of sync and not worth maintaining in a couple of years.
Really refreshing to hear a properly balanced discussion of the topic. So many channels online are either Pro-EV or Anti-EV and take an almost religious stance either way. As someone with both a diesel and a basic EV (for four years), each has its pros and cons and it all depends on which country you live in, and what your requirements are as an owner. EVs are neither the devil nor angels - they are just cars!
My main issue with EVs is that you have to carry the weight of your fuel source with you and this creates an inverse issue from ICE vehicles for the low-end of the market, cheaper cars will always have less range. There's no cheap, efficient, simple EV equivalent to a Corolla or Civic and I don't see how it could happen barring a battery miracle.
Our enemies are moving away from oil and natural gas as they are strategic targets. Wind and solar are decentralized forms of energy, they are harder to destroy. When goons who want to live in the 9th century can fire cheap weapons and sink slow moving tankers, we need to do something different. If you put the environmental concerns aside, electrification from renewables is a smart security move.
A decent hailstorm will wipe out a solar farm. A tornado will turn a wind turbines into spaghetti.
Nuclear means energy for all. Renewables means cutting down trees, erasing farmland, mining cobalt, running diesel engines to start windmills and having mountains of unrecoverable renewable trash. One is cheap and abundant energy, the other is feel-good but power-bad. Imagine a future where energy is cheap vs a future where your smart home turns off appliances to avoid brownouts and we limp along.
@@rjbiker66 You're saying that an enemy nation is going to invent a weather machine to create hailstorms and tornados to attack our renewable energy infrastructure? Doesn't seem very likely.
the smartest move is making diesel at home from waste (not counting the environment)
@@Xenon0000000000001 LOL. What do you really know about HAARP?
Love this , a lot. Thank you for putting this out !!!!
All good points that we as a society need to discuss. What do we want not what the government wants for us. I’m not opposed to EVs. I think they make sense locally and for short commutes/errands. Give me choices and we’ll ultimately decide. Like VHS. Or whatever happens to plasma TVs for $10k? 😂