Really comprehensive review Brian. Interesting to hear your thought on how this bar position work as a package with the bike rather than just a review of the stem itself. Thanks for sharing!
@@MarioXcore1 Wrong. You’re steering axis aka where you handlebars are clamped remains the same so you won’t feel as drastic as a difference as with the stem
@@MarioXcore1 If you rolled a really tall riser bar, ie. around 140mm rise, back to achieve a similar geometry, you would need to roll it back to about 35mm - 40mm behind the steering axis to achieve the same hand to steering axis relationship. This would give quite a large degree of downsweep to the bar instead of upsweep which greatly effects how you can load and interact with the bar. Most riders feel a little bit of upsweep to neutral works best for their bar roll.
Seems like the Rulezman HC-V3 could be a nice in-between to try? Less rise, and a short but forward offset(15-18mm). I’m not convinced the reverse offset offers any benefits other than shortening the effective reach, and further pushing the riders weight back. If the offset from the steering axis is the same, whether it’s offset forwards or backwards, the moment forces created should also be the same.
5:14 The Reversed offset of the RR stem improves and calms the steering dynamics. Since it arcs out instead of in when turning relative to the frame, it allows the rider to position themselves on the outside of the bike when cornering to load their side knobs properly while also leaning the bike in further for a kinematically tighter turn. At the extremes of turning angles, the Reversed offset helps reduce the likelihood of having the front jackknife such that you can keep turning tighter. The hand to front axle position parallels a 59 degree headtube angle for ultimate confidence in steep terrain, with a steering feel that is less floppy and more direct than the stock headtube angle of the bike with a traditional stem. These help the rider corner much better with improved feel of the front end, keep better balance in loose terrain, and feel more confident in steep terrain. I’m introducing two concepts I like to call “Hand Lead” and “Frame Lead”. Your Hand Lead is kind of like the trail measurement but with relation to the interaction of the hands to the contact patch of the tire. Frame Lead is the same as the trail measurement but with I believe a more intuitive way of understanding it. You don’t turn your bars around the steering axis, you actually turn your bars around the contact patch of the tire on the ground. This is because the steering axis is just a floating point in space, while the contact patch of the tire is actually directly interacting with the ground. As such I find it beneficial to look from the contact patch forward to where the steering axis intersects the ground when conceptualizing what happens. The distance between the contact patch of the tire and the point where the steering axis intersects the ground is the Frame Lead. This is the length of the lever that your frame is leading the front wheel with. When you turn left and right side to side, the frame actually arcs to the left and the right side to side dropping down some as it moves to either side from straight ahead pivoting around the contact patch of the tire. The amount that it drops down with each turn away from straight ahead increases proportionally to slackening the headtube angle, and increasing the Frame Lead. This dropping down is known as the wheel flop. The slacker the headtube angle and the longer the Frame Lead, the more wheel flop you have. Your Hand Lead is the distance between the contact patch of the tire and the intersection point on the ground of the line parallel to the steering axis that runs through the centerline between your grips. This is the length of the lever that your hands are leading the front wheel with. If the centerline between your grips is in front of the steering axis, you have a Hand Lead that is longer than your Frame Lead. If the centerline between your grips is behind the steering axis like it is with the RR stem, then you will have a Hand Lead that is shorter than your Frame Lead. In the same way that your frame will arc side to side when you turn, and drop down to either side from straight ahead pivoting around the contact patch of the tire, so two will your hands. With a Hand Lead longer than your Frame Lead, your hands will actually follow a longer arc side to side and drop down further to either side from straight ahead. This increases the feeling of wheel flop at the bars, and how much the frame will move you as it flops side to side. It also moves your hands even further away from the contact patch of the tire giving a less direct feel of what it is doing when it kicks out in times of low traction moving you off from loading it. For a given amount of turning your bars and leaning them over, the frame will be leaned over less. With the RR stems Reversed offset, you have a Hand Lead that is shorter than your Frame Lead but crucially is still in front of the contact patch of the tire. With a Hand Lead shorter than your Frame Lead, your hands will follow a shorter arc side to side and drop down less to either side from straight ahead. This reduces the feeling of wheel flop at the bars, and reduces how much the frame moves you as it flops side to side. It also moves your hands much closer to the contact patch of the tire for a more direct feel of what it is doing when it kicks out in times of low traction keeping you more on top of the contact patch of the tire to keep loading it. For a given amount of turning the bars and leaning them over, the frame will be leaned over more.
Hey Bronson!, I’m very curious about this frame lead and hand lead concept, could you come up with some diagrams or graphics to better understand all of this ?
I have been riding with the RR for six months on my Specialize DH Demo Race, Enduro, and Stumpy. Every thing said in the video is amazing. One benefit is that I’m now able to ride about 40% more time with out getting worn out.
I love my RRs: the $1200 investment is worth every penny to me. I've worked hard for many years and have the pleasure of spoiling myself. I'm sure you'll laugh at how much money I've spent on my bikes and all of the accessories that I've added, like The Transmission, Berd Wheels, EXT shocks, links, SQ Carbon handlebars, ONYX hubs, and so much more. I'm so happy that I get to have the best of the best and to ride at the level I can at the age of 73. I didn't start DH riding until the age of 69, and I can easily clear 40-50 ft table tops. My number one goal is to ride DH as long as I can and anything that will help me be safer is important to me. The RF stem is so valuable to me, because it allows me to reduce stress on my hands and back, as well as reduces the risks of OTB. Note: I'm an eight-time National Barefoot Waterskier, but I'm in New Mexico, so DH is my sport now (was in Florida), MikeHolt.com.
the design does work, I agree with everything, it´s not for everyone or every bike, and not for every terrain, but where it was designed, california, very fast and loose trails, it works great, I would love to see a less extreme example, as you said, 0 degree and instead of 15cm, only 7 or 10, would actually split the difference and be better as an all-rounder
To anyone wondering what this is and why I made it, this is the RR (Raised Reversed) stem. It is both Raised up and Reversed in offset so that your hands are ultimately behind the steering axis instead of in front as is traditional. The Raised height helps improve the riders stance with a better arm angle to the bars for confidence, proper bend in the elbows for control, and more rider weight supported by their legs instead of hands. It also gives a longer lever between their hands and feet to give them more leverage for maneuvering the bike. These help the rider to feel more comfortable and confident, and makes the bike more maneuverable. The Reversed offset improves and calms the steering dynamics. Since it arcs out instead of in when turning relative to the frame, it allows the rider to position themselves on the outside of the bike when cornering to load their side knobs properly while also leaning the bike in further for a kinematically tighter turn. The hand to front axle position parallels a 59 degree headtube angle for ultimate confidence in steep terrain, with a steering feel that is less floppy and more direct than the stock headtube angle of the bike with a traditional stem. These help the rider corner much better with improved feel of the front end, keep better balance in loose terrain, and feel more confident in steep terrain. I am consistently significantly faster riding on a bike with the RR stem relative to traditional 50mm - 35mm stems. I have gotten better race results, such as when I won 🥇 the Southridge USA DH Expert Men 19-29 race with a time 3 seconds faster than 3rd place in Pro Men, and I can now ride more technical terrain and bigger jumps than I ever could before using the RR stem. Many of my customers have also reported to me that they set new PRs on their first runs taking it easy with the RR stem. The RR stem has been in development for over 3 years testing all kinds of different heights and offsets on various bikes and terrain, always benchmarking against the traditional 50mm - 35mm stem. I tested anything from below traditional height to about 80mm taller than the RR stem you see here, and 70mm offset forward all the way to 70mm offset Reversed and many different combinations in between. The RR stem that I now sell on the Be More Bikes website: bemorebikes.com is the culmination of all of that testing to find the best Enduro mtb stem geometry with a -15mm Reversed offset. If you have any questions please leave a reply, or check out my Tech and FAQ’s page here: bemorebikes.com/tech-and-faqs.html I love having discussions. 🙂
I met you at sea offer, much respect for bringing something NEW that the bike industry has never seen. I'd be curious to see what a UCI rider could set some times on using this. Have you sent any to some of the top riders to try?
@@Your_Moms_Favorite_Dart_PlayerI have not, Brian is the fastest rider I have sent one to for review to my knowledge. Most riders at that level have sponsor conflicts. I’m also not sure how to go about getting a top level rider to run my product. I’d love to get there someday though! 😄
This seems very interesting. I'm wondering if it would be feasible to make a version with the dropper like on the seat just to use it in reverse. So that the handlebar is lowered on flat ground, and raised when going downhill?
It's NOT new . adjustable riser stems have been around for decades . i have some i have been using on my bikes for over twenty five years . if you want a reverse angle then simply sprin the stem around so the angle is facing the rider . they range in price fro about 25€ to about fifty or sixty . they are very well made and will not break . in face there is a style that is almost identical to the one in this video , so i suspect the so called inventor ripped it off from anothe guy . 400 dollars for a stem is criminal and a total con .
Very precise review, I was expecting the far lesser weight on the front wheel with that setup to be noticable. I think its benefit is about making counter steering more intuitive since its mounted behind the steerer so it might be good as training wheels for non pros to learn initiating counter steering
One thing that's very different from dirt bikes to mountain bikes is the weight, when you have that extra 80kg of mass centered low between the wheels, steering would naturally be heavy so the twichiness isn't a issue.
The only downside would be climbing. Wrap a big foam pad around the bars to keep from poking yourself in the chest. The vague feel would be lack of compression damping in the fork which is valved for standard riding position. More oil in the compression leg might solve this.
I feel like this could be a huge benefit for people with back or shoulder issues who have a lot of pain or discomfort in a more downward position. Also those who don’t have the core strength they should * cough me and my dad bod cough *
Great review Brian, it looks as you tried to be as objective as possible. It's nice to have an idea of how such a different product works Perhaps you should try to find one of the old Mondraker stem that mounted the same way (bar over steerer) but had a +10mm reach
I think some of the problems is caused by a short CS, that makes the front wheel lacking traction and ruins the weight repartiotion, especially with this setup that makes you go more backwards. Normal bikes are lacking that balance, your setup has improved with this adds but has denoted more the flaws because the chain stay. I would suggest to get the longest CS mutator that geometron offers.
Interesting experiment, although I feel it will only work well on bikes that have a pretty forward fc/rc balance like the geometron. I can’t see it working on something like a 5010 v4 or specialized status. In my experience you can either have tall bars/short stem and longer cs/shorter reach or lower bars and shorter cs/longer reach. BB height will also come into play but raising the bb without raising the bars is like dropping the bars but with (in my opinion) adverse side effects. Good to see there’s still companies thinking outside the box, without them we’d still be riding the mini bikes of the 00s..
Definitely a game changer for some riders? as for myself I'm happy to just toy about with the idea of experimenting with headset spacers and hi an low rise bars but all the same great review.
Have you tried riding it at +15mm? And maybe throw a lower rise bar on it and you have a setup in between "normal" and this. Similar to the Rulezman stem setup.
I've often thought mtb riders, look too low in their riding position. My background is motocross and transitioned to DH Mtb a couple of years ago. I use 40mm riser bars plus as many spaces the steerer tube will allow. It feels so natural to me with this height setup. My bike also has a long chain stay too. Mx geometry for sure. It seems to make sense to me. Great video.
The RR (Raised Reversed) stems position is very similar to a dirt bike both in stack and reach feet to hands and having your hands behind the steering axis. It’s interesting to me how similar they are considering the RR stem was not inspired by or designed to emulate the position of a dirt bike. I don’t even ride dirt bikes. The RR stem was developed over almost 3 years testing anything from below traditional height to about 80mm taller than the RR stem you now see, and anything from 70mm forward to -70mm Reversed always benchmarking against the traditional 50mm - 35mm stem. The RR stem that you see here is the culmination of all that testing to find the best Enduro mtb stem geometry. Mtbs have been influenced way too much by road bike designers particularly in the early days of mtbs. That’s a big part of why we have low bars. It’s a carryover from road bikes trying to be more aero. We started with the modified beach cruisers they called klunkers. Once it became big enough for bike brands to see it as something to capitalize on, they got to work using their road bike knowledge and road bike components to design off-road bikes to sell to their road biker customer base as a new activity to do outdoors. We went from relatively long wheelbase, slack headtube angle, long chainstay, tall wide bar with lots of backsweep, short stem and hands behind the steering axis klunkers for going DH super fast and having a blast on fire roads to the first production XC mtbs with short wheelbases, steep headtube angles, short chainstays, low straight narrow bars, and long stems with your hands way in front of the steering axis for going through the woods on simple bike paths. Since then, mtbs have been slowly progressing further and further away from their road bike roots to something more dedicated to off-road usage. The RR stem is the beginning of my contribution towards that goal. Had mtbs stayed true to the more klunker origins, maybe the geo I’m proposing would have already existed and been common place by now.
@@bemorebikesThanks so much for your reply. What you've developed could be the future in enduro mtb. With much talk about geometry this to me has been often overlooked. Im running a 35mm reach bar stem so I'd be very interested in trying your product out where the turning sits behind the steer axis.
Great review ! I'm just wondering how it feels if you try it in the forward position. To me it would look alot more like BMX bikes as they usually have their bars pretty much straight up rather than leant back! Has anyone tried ?
@@briancahal will likely need a new uncut upper steer tube, mount it as high as you can with 10-15mm of spacers below the rulzman, then run 40mm rise deity bars cz40's. That will get the best of both worlds. just high enough without pushing your body too far back.
I think it’s worth noting the terrain that Bronson rides that led to this stem’s development. SoCal has a lot of steep descents, where it’s straight up and straight down. This isn’t designed for XC riding, it’s designed for DH riding as some other comments said. Having seen Bronson on this in real life, at our local enduro races, he is one of the fastest non-pro riders in our area, and his race times prove it. Got a chance to talk to him about it at one of these races, and the claims about putting more load on the side knobs of the front tire are 100% true, I have never seen a front tire worn out like his was. The corner knobs weren’t undercut, they were just almost gone and he still somehow had grip in the corners. Watching the way he was able to corner down some of the enduro lines was crazy
I understand the desire to test things, but personally I feel something like this will only be a prototype kind of product simply because the drawbacks are greater than any gains. Just the fact it is stupidly long shows the creator wanting to just push it to the max from the get go. The disconnect to the front you're talking of was my first thoughts when I just saw the product, and you confirming my assumption through personal experience tell me all I need to know. I like that people experiment with this and that, I just personally do not think this particular thing will kick off any time soon.
I feel like this stem could be sick, but only if you already have a longer reach bike. So if you've sized up, then it could definitely be a massive improvement.
I would give it a try, maybe not something so extreme. I wonder why manufacturers dont roll their sleeves and do a big and wide exploration of geometries, it seems silly that we keep just stumbling upon better geometries every generation. Why leave the trial and error for the users? Why not accelerate the process by mapping many extreme geometries?
Squeezing that profit margin slowly, why make all the changes once when you can get a few MMs here and there every year to have your customers drain their wallet all the time
@@RiderP411 i see your argument, but if i count brands that make gravity bikes, i can count to 40 and forget to mention some. This means there is a lot to be gained from offering better geometry than the competitors (even more if you think geometry is for free). Maybe its because of the slow adaptation from riders, maybe no manufacturer want to take too big of a risk lauching an outlandish geometry nobody likes at first try even if its way better
Now hear me out…what if frames came with taller headtubes, and then the stem could be much closer to normal size, just flipped around to make the axis give the same effect. I think most people are thrown off by the looks, not the performance.
This is one of a several positive reviews I've seen on this, with very little info on climbing. 90% of mountain biking around here is climbing. Kind of a bigger deal in my life than what people seem to be concerned with. Let's see some reviews climbing some gnar!
I wouldn't want to corner with that thing, that's going to take a whole bunch of weight off the front end, resulting in washout city, almost like riding a chopper, it would probably be good at bombing down steep tracks, but that's about it, I noticed less front end grip when I raised my bars by 15mm.
From the RAD fit to this reverse stem, it seems that all this is geared for riders who value technical DH. No XC rider would ever consider such a high position when peddling efficiency and climbing are critical.
Idk. Ergonomics are important too. Aero isn’t nearly as much of an issue for xc vs road. So having a more comfortable open position might be beneficial.
@@50centHotDog my comment was not about aero. It is mostly about climbing and peddling efficiency. Even the presenter admitted that this stem only makes sense in downhills and he was faster with a normal stem.
What do you mean? Have you seen a fork from the factory? The steering tube is always long,but bike manufacturers don't like to give you any adjustability on that so they cut them very short
Just like every other "paid" review uploaded this month: no one has video smashing rock gardens & no one published any strava times. I've tried mega stack, it feels great up until you ride steep downhills and hit rocks or heavy brake. The rear wheel lifts off the ground with minimal front braking
None of the reviews have ever been paid for. I have zero marketing budget and Be More Bikes is just me. None of the reviews that have recently come out or previously come out by Brian Cahal, Mountain Bike Action, The Loam Wolf, or Seth from Berm Peak Express have had any financial incentive to say anything positive about the RR stem. I feel they have all been very honest, and pretty fair all things considered. None of them had any input from me during their review either, and I had no influence on what went into the reviews. I didn’t even get to see any of them before they were uploaded. I’m pretty sure they would be legally obligated to disclose if this was paid advertising.
You’re that person. This isn’t the same as what you did. He’s a guy trying to innovate to make mtbing better. I doubt he’s paying anyone. We need more people like him, and less people like you. So post a vid or go away.
Your feeling makes no sense. I ride a bike with a extremely long steerer tube with like 3 inches under my stem and high rise bars. This setting is what I came to after years of tinkering. Taller stack makes it so much easier to jump, bunny hop, corner vs a low stack. More modern bikes are starting to have stack height in the 650s now. It makes more of a difference in those things than a short chainstay and tall bb. In no way would a taller stack make you feel like it wants to lift the back wheel off the ground under heavy braking or steep terrain. You are stood more taller and behind the bars with more weight centered on your pedals. It's common sense. A lower stack feels like you are being pulled down and forward. It feels weird as hell on flat ground and down right scary down steep sections. I have tried many different stem heights with negative rise or positive rise on the stem, and I have to try so much harder to bunny hop with it at the slammed position. Its like I need like 3-5 tries to get one good hop vs literally just jumping immediately. It took me a while to break free from the normal conversations of geometry before I just said fuck it and went as tall as I could.
Just like every other "paid" review uploaded this month: no one has video smashing rock gardens & no one published any strava times. I've tried mega stack, it feels great up until you ride steep downhills and hit rocks or heavy brake. The rear wheel lifts off the ground with minimal front braking
None of the reviews have ever been paid for. I have zero marketing budget and Be More Bikes is just me. None of the reviews that have recently come out or previously come out by Brian Cahal, Mountain Bike Action, The Loam Wolf, or Seth from Berm Peak Express have had any financial incentive to say anything positive about the RR stem. I feel they have all been very honest, and pretty fair all things considered. None of them had any input from me during their review either, and I had no influence on what went into the reviews. I didn’t even get to see any of them before they were uploaded. I’m pretty sure they would be legally obligated to disclose if this was paid advertising.
Yes. The guy who dropped all his sponsors to be able to review stuff with no bias is shilling for a small brand with no budget for that kind of stuff? Like dude just not what's happening
The issues you mentioned from your experience with the mega stack aligns with what I found also just going higher without the Reversed offset. Basically what I felt was that my weight would end up all in my hands with a lot of leverage pushing forward like the bike wanted to tip forward. This is in part due to an increased endo angle that makes the front more prone to flipping forward instead of rolling over things. The RR stem is not the same as that. The further back position of the Reversed offset reduces your endo angle with a hand to front axle position comparable to around a 59 degree headtube angle, and all of your weight supported through your feet actually further weighting the rear end. This lighter front end light hands position actually makes the front wheel more prone to rolling over large obstacles instead of getting caught up and sending you forward. When braking very hard, you can load the bike through the bottom bracket to drive your weight down through both the front and rear wheels actually keeping the rear on the ground instead of trying to flip you forward with the rear lifting. This allows you to actually brake harder.
@@bemorebikes show me you can push/roll the bike upstairs very slowly without the bike endo-ing. Just pushing forwards on the bars and standing next to the bike, I'll bet you it just hits the first step and gets stuck
Iv been rocking short stems and the highest riser bars I could find for years now !! Always knew I was on to something lol !!!
Really comprehensive review Brian. Interesting to hear your thought on how this bar position work as a package with the bike rather than just a review of the stem itself. Thanks for sharing!
Glad you enjoyed it!
So let's split the difference and just run tall bars (bonus, they look sick)
Taller bars don’t give you the same effect
@@DavidFoundCohow? You roll them back enough and with enough height you’d put them in the same spot
@@MarioXcore1 Wrong. You’re steering axis aka where you handlebars are clamped remains the same so you won’t feel as drastic as a difference as with the stem
@@DavidFoundCo the steering axis is defined by your headtube/headset...
@@MarioXcore1 If you rolled a really tall riser bar, ie. around 140mm rise, back to achieve a similar geometry, you would need to roll it back to about 35mm - 40mm behind the steering axis to achieve the same hand to steering axis relationship. This would give quite a large degree of downsweep to the bar instead of upsweep which greatly effects how you can load and interact with the bar. Most riders feel a little bit of upsweep to neutral works best for their bar roll.
Seems like the Rulezman HC-V3 could be a nice in-between to try? Less rise, and a short but forward offset(15-18mm). I’m not convinced the reverse offset offers any benefits other than shortening the effective reach, and further pushing the riders weight back. If the offset from the steering axis is the same, whether it’s offset forwards or backwards, the moment forces created should also be the same.
5:14 The Reversed offset of the RR stem improves and calms the steering dynamics. Since it arcs out instead of in when turning relative to the frame, it allows the rider to position themselves on the outside of the bike when cornering to load their side knobs properly while also leaning the bike in further for a kinematically tighter turn. At the extremes of turning angles, the Reversed offset helps reduce the likelihood of having the front jackknife such that you can keep turning tighter. The hand to front axle position parallels a 59 degree headtube angle for ultimate confidence in steep terrain, with a steering feel that is less floppy and more direct than the stock headtube angle of the bike with a traditional stem. These help the rider corner much better with improved feel of the front end, keep better balance in loose terrain, and feel more confident in steep terrain.
I’m introducing two concepts I like to call “Hand Lead” and “Frame Lead”. Your Hand Lead is kind of like the trail measurement but with relation to the interaction of the hands to the contact patch of the tire. Frame Lead is the same as the trail measurement but with I believe a more intuitive way of understanding it. You don’t turn your bars around the steering axis, you actually turn your bars around the contact patch of the tire on the ground. This is because the steering axis is just a floating point in space, while the contact patch of the tire is actually directly interacting with the ground. As such I find it beneficial to look from the contact patch forward to where the steering axis intersects the ground when conceptualizing what happens.
The distance between the contact patch of the tire and the point where the steering axis intersects the ground is the Frame Lead. This is the length of the lever that your frame is leading the front wheel with. When you turn left and right side to side, the frame actually arcs to the left and the right side to side dropping down some as it moves to either side from straight ahead pivoting around the contact patch of the tire. The amount that it drops down with each turn away from straight ahead increases proportionally to slackening the headtube angle, and increasing the Frame Lead. This dropping down is known as the wheel flop. The slacker the headtube angle and the longer the Frame Lead, the more wheel flop you have.
Your Hand Lead is the distance between the contact patch of the tire and the intersection point on the ground of the line parallel to the steering axis that runs through the centerline between your grips. This is the length of the lever that your hands are leading the front wheel with. If the centerline between your grips is in front of the steering axis, you have a Hand Lead that is longer than your Frame Lead. If the centerline between your grips is behind the steering axis like it is with the RR stem, then you will have a Hand Lead that is shorter than your Frame Lead. In the same way that your frame will arc side to side when you turn, and drop down to either side from straight ahead pivoting around the contact patch of the tire, so two will your hands.
With a Hand Lead longer than your Frame Lead, your hands will actually follow a longer arc side to side and drop down further to either side from straight ahead. This increases the feeling of wheel flop at the bars, and how much the frame will move you as it flops side to side. It also moves your hands even further away from the contact patch of the tire giving a less direct feel of what it is doing when it kicks out in times of low traction moving you off from loading it. For a given amount of turning your bars and leaning them over, the frame will be leaned over less.
With the RR stems Reversed offset, you have a Hand Lead that is shorter than your Frame Lead but crucially is still in front of the contact patch of the tire. With a Hand Lead shorter than your Frame Lead, your hands will follow a shorter arc side to side and drop down less to either side from straight ahead. This reduces the feeling of wheel flop at the bars, and reduces how much the frame moves you as it flops side to side. It also moves your hands much closer to the contact patch of the tire for a more direct feel of what it is doing when it kicks out in times of low traction keeping you more on top of the contact patch of the tire to keep loading it. For a given amount of turning the bars and leaning them over, the frame will be leaned over more.
Hey Bronson!, I’m very curious about this frame lead and hand lead concept, could you come up with some diagrams or graphics to better understand all of this ?
If you talk in between take a stem with actual 0 reach like the Nullvorbau
I have been riding with the RR for six months on my Specialize DH Demo Race, Enduro, and Stumpy. Every thing said in the video is amazing. One benefit is that I’m now able to ride about 40% more time with out getting worn out.
Bro you have 1200 sunk in stems alone? wtf . What a waste haha
I love my RRs: the $1200 investment is worth every penny to me. I've worked hard for many years and have the pleasure of spoiling myself.
I'm sure you'll laugh at how much money I've spent on my bikes and all of the accessories that I've added, like The Transmission, Berd Wheels, EXT shocks, links, SQ Carbon handlebars, ONYX hubs, and so much more. I'm so happy that I get to have the best of the best and to ride at the level I can at the age of 73. I didn't start DH riding until the age of 69, and I can easily clear 40-50 ft table tops. My number one goal is to ride DH as long as I can and anything that will help me be safer is important to me. The RF stem is so valuable to me, because it allows me to reduce stress on my hands and back, as well as reduces the risks of OTB.
Note: I'm an eight-time National Barefoot Waterskier, but I'm in New Mexico, so DH is my sport now (was in Florida), MikeHolt.com.
I’m an intermediate rider and it’s a game changer for me. And gives me more confidence in technical DH.
Such a great review, thank you!
the design does work, I agree with everything, it´s not for everyone or every bike, and not for every terrain, but where it was designed, california, very fast and loose trails, it works great, I would love to see a less extreme example, as you said, 0 degree and instead of 15cm, only 7 or 10, would actually split the difference and be better as an all-rounder
Excellent review. So balanced very good
To anyone wondering what this is and why I made it, this is the RR (Raised Reversed) stem. It is both Raised up and Reversed in offset so that your hands are ultimately behind the steering axis instead of in front as is traditional.
The Raised height helps improve the riders stance with a better arm angle to the bars for confidence, proper bend in the elbows for control, and more rider weight supported by their legs instead of hands. It also gives a longer lever between their hands and feet to give them more leverage for maneuvering the bike. These help the rider to feel more comfortable and confident, and makes the bike more maneuverable.
The Reversed offset improves and calms the steering dynamics. Since it arcs out instead of in when turning relative to the frame, it allows the rider to position themselves on the outside of the bike when cornering to load their side knobs properly while also leaning the bike in further for a kinematically tighter turn. The hand to front axle position parallels a 59 degree headtube angle for ultimate confidence in steep terrain, with a steering feel that is less floppy and more direct than the stock headtube angle of the bike with a traditional stem. These help the rider corner much better with improved feel of the front end, keep better balance in loose terrain, and feel more confident in steep terrain.
I am consistently significantly faster riding on a bike with the RR stem relative to traditional 50mm - 35mm stems. I have gotten better race results, such as when I won 🥇 the Southridge USA DH Expert Men 19-29 race with a time 3 seconds faster than 3rd place in Pro Men, and I can now ride more technical terrain and bigger jumps than I ever could before using the RR stem. Many of my customers have also reported to me that they set new PRs on their first runs taking it easy with the RR stem.
The RR stem has been in development for over 3 years testing all kinds of different heights and offsets on various bikes and terrain, always benchmarking against the traditional 50mm - 35mm stem. I tested anything from below traditional height to about 80mm taller than the RR stem you see here, and 70mm offset forward all the way to 70mm offset Reversed and many different combinations in between. The RR stem that I now sell on the Be More Bikes website:
bemorebikes.com
is the culmination of all of that testing to find the best Enduro mtb stem geometry with a -15mm Reversed offset. If you have any questions please leave a reply, or check out my Tech and FAQ’s page here:
bemorebikes.com/tech-and-faqs.html
I love having discussions. 🙂
I met you at sea offer, much respect for bringing something NEW that the bike industry has never seen. I'd be curious to see what a UCI rider could set some times on using this. Have you sent any to some of the top riders to try?
@@Your_Moms_Favorite_Dart_PlayerI have not, Brian is the fastest rider I have sent one to for review to my knowledge. Most riders at that level have sponsor conflicts. I’m also not sure how to go about getting a top level rider to run my product. I’d love to get there someday though! 😄
If there happen to be any World Cup level racers interested in running or trying the RR stem reading this, PLEASE get in touch! 😀
This seems very interesting. I'm wondering if it would be feasible to make a version with the dropper like on the seat just to use it in reverse. So that the handlebar is lowered on flat ground, and raised when going downhill?
It's NOT new . adjustable riser stems have been around for decades . i have some i have been using on my bikes for over twenty five years . if you want a reverse angle then simply sprin the stem around so the angle is facing the rider .
they range in price fro about 25€ to about fifty or sixty . they are very well made and will not break . in face there is a style that is almost identical to the one in this video , so i suspect the so called inventor ripped it off from anothe guy . 400 dollars for a stem is criminal and a total con .
Very precise review, I was expecting the far lesser weight on the front wheel with that setup to be noticable. I think its benefit is about making counter steering more intuitive since its mounted behind the steerer so it might be good as training wheels for non pros to learn initiating counter steering
One thing that's very different from dirt bikes to mountain bikes is the weight, when you have that extra 80kg of mass centered low between the wheels, steering would naturally be heavy so the twichiness isn't a issue.
The only downside would be climbing. Wrap a big foam pad around the bars to keep from poking yourself in the chest. The vague feel would be lack of compression damping in the fork which is valved for standard riding position. More oil in the compression leg might solve this.
I feel like this could be a huge benefit for people with back or shoulder issues who have a lot of pain or discomfort in a more downward position. Also those who don’t have the core strength they should * cough me and my dad bod cough *
Great review Brian, it looks as you tried to be as objective as possible. It's nice to have an idea of how such a different product works Perhaps you should try to find one of the old Mondraker stem that mounted the same way (bar over steerer) but had a +10mm reach
Just looked it up, it's the Onoff Stoic 10mm stem I'm talking about.
Thanks! Good idea, look into it
Check the Nullvorbau out. 30mm rise and 0 reach.
Looks super sick with a stiffmaster headset.
I think some of the problems is caused by a short CS, that makes the front wheel lacking traction and ruins the weight repartiotion, especially with this setup that makes you go more backwards. Normal bikes are lacking that balance, your setup has improved with this adds but has denoted more the flaws because the chain stay. I would suggest to get the longest CS mutator that geometron offers.
I’m on the longest one haha, I hear geometron might be coming out with a longer one though
Interesting experiment, although I feel it will only work well on bikes that have a pretty forward fc/rc balance like the geometron. I can’t see it working on something like a 5010 v4 or specialized status. In my experience you can either have tall bars/short stem and longer cs/shorter reach or lower bars and shorter cs/longer reach. BB height will also come into play but raising the bb without raising the bars is like dropping the bars but with (in my opinion) adverse side effects.
Good to see there’s still companies thinking outside the box, without them we’d still be riding the mini bikes of the 00s..
Ive always like high rise bar and high stack regardless of geo
Definitely a game changer for some riders? as for myself I'm happy to just toy about with the idea of experimenting with headset spacers and hi an low rise bars but all the same great review.
Thanks!
Have you tried riding it at +15mm?
And maybe throw a lower rise bar on it and you have a setup in between "normal" and this. Similar to the Rulezman stem setup.
Rulezman runs a 0mm ESL (effective stem length) IIRC. Ditto Paul Aston.
So wouldn't getting a shorter bike be beneficial in this case too? Or a lot of Spacers, High Rise Bars and a 30mm stem?
I've often thought mtb riders, look too low in their riding position. My background is motocross and transitioned to DH Mtb a couple of years ago. I use 40mm riser bars plus as many spaces the steerer tube will allow. It feels so natural to me with this height setup. My bike also has a long chain stay too. Mx geometry for sure. It seems to make sense to me. Great video.
Thanks! Yeah I think a lot of the MTB world trends towards low bars just because of looks and the sports history coming mainly from cross country
The RR (Raised Reversed) stems position is very similar to a dirt bike both in stack and reach feet to hands and having your hands behind the steering axis. It’s interesting to me how similar they are considering the RR stem was not inspired by or designed to emulate the position of a dirt bike. I don’t even ride dirt bikes. The RR stem was developed over almost 3 years testing anything from below traditional height to about 80mm taller than the RR stem you now see, and anything from 70mm forward to -70mm Reversed always benchmarking against the traditional 50mm - 35mm stem. The RR stem that you see here is the culmination of all that testing to find the best Enduro mtb stem geometry.
Mtbs have been influenced way too much by road bike designers particularly in the early days of mtbs. That’s a big part of why we have low bars. It’s a carryover from road bikes trying to be more aero. We started with the modified beach cruisers they called klunkers. Once it became big enough for bike brands to see it as something to capitalize on, they got to work using their road bike knowledge and road bike components to design off-road bikes to sell to their road biker customer base as a new activity to do outdoors. We went from relatively long wheelbase, slack headtube angle, long chainstay, tall wide bar with lots of backsweep, short stem and hands behind the steering axis klunkers for going DH super fast and having a blast on fire roads to the first production XC mtbs with short wheelbases, steep headtube angles, short chainstays, low straight narrow bars, and long stems with your hands way in front of the steering axis for going through the woods on simple bike paths. Since then, mtbs have been slowly progressing further and further away from their road bike roots to something more dedicated to off-road usage. The RR stem is the beginning of my contribution towards that goal. Had mtbs stayed true to the more klunker origins, maybe the geo I’m proposing would have already existed and been common place by now.
@@bemorebikesThanks so much for your reply. What you've developed could be the future in enduro mtb. With much talk about geometry this to me has been often overlooked. Im running a 35mm reach bar stem so I'd be very interested in trying your product out where the turning sits behind the steer axis.
Great review ! I'm just wondering how it feels if you try it in the forward position. To me it would look alot more like BMX bikes as they usually have their bars pretty much straight up rather than leant back! Has anyone tried ?
Never thought of doing that, might have to give it a go!
Why not make it directly in line with the steering angle? It seems like it's only offset a tiny amount.
Like many of the DH bikes in the early 2000s. Lots of stack and arm bend, hard to get you body over the front end on the climbs.
Maybe you could try the rulezman stem, which seems to be in between a short regular stem and the raised and reverse stem...
Definitely want to get my hands one one if I can.
@@briancahal will likely need a new uncut upper steer tube, mount it as high as you can with 10-15mm of spacers below the rulzman, then run 40mm rise deity bars cz40's. That will get the best of both worlds. just high enough without pushing your body too far back.
I think it’s worth noting the terrain that Bronson rides that led to this stem’s development. SoCal has a lot of steep descents, where it’s straight up and straight down. This isn’t designed for XC riding, it’s designed for DH riding as some other comments said.
Having seen Bronson on this in real life, at our local enduro races, he is one of the fastest non-pro riders in our area, and his race times prove it.
Got a chance to talk to him about it at one of these races, and the claims about putting more load on the side knobs of the front tire are 100% true, I have never seen a front tire worn out like his was. The corner knobs weren’t undercut, they were just almost gone and he still somehow had grip in the corners. Watching the way he was able to corner down some of the enduro lines was crazy
I understand the desire to test things, but personally I feel something like this will only be a prototype kind of product simply because the drawbacks are greater than any gains. Just the fact it is stupidly long shows the creator wanting to just push it to the max from the get go.
The disconnect to the front you're talking of was my first thoughts when I just saw the product, and you confirming my assumption through personal experience tell me all I need to know. I like that people experiment with this and that, I just personally do not think this particular thing will kick off any time soon.
I feel like this stem could be sick, but only if you already have a longer reach bike. So if you've sized up, then it could definitely be a massive improvement.
Where do I buy this product ?
I would give it a try, maybe not something so extreme.
I wonder why manufacturers dont roll their sleeves and do a big and wide exploration of geometries, it seems silly that we keep just stumbling upon better geometries every generation.
Why leave the trial and error for the users? Why not accelerate the process by mapping many extreme geometries?
Squeezing that profit margin slowly, why make all the changes once when you can get a few MMs here and there every year to have your customers drain their wallet all the time
@@RiderP411 i see your argument, but if i count brands that make gravity bikes, i can count to 40 and forget to mention some.
This means there is a lot to be gained from offering better geometry than the competitors (even more if you think geometry is for free).
Maybe its because of the slow adaptation from riders, maybe no manufacturer want to take too big of a risk lauching an outlandish geometry nobody likes at first try even if its way better
Now hear me out…what if frames came with taller headtubes, and then the stem could be much closer to normal size, just flipped around to make the axis give the same effect. I think most people are thrown off by the looks, not the performance.
I just want to know what bike Dak is going to be rocking this on next year 😂
Dak is leading the charge for the high stack movement haha
This is one of a several positive reviews I've seen on this, with very little info on climbing. 90% of mountain biking around here is climbing. Kind of a bigger deal in my life than what people seem to be concerned with. Let's see some reviews climbing some gnar!
Seth's bike hacks said that it sucked for climbing but that maybe it's something you would get used to
#Altbars. This is just more of that without the nice sweep that helps your natural wrist position.
Rulezman stem and high rise bars will do the trick
I think you really need to have stem built that is exactly halfway between your normal stem and this one and see how it goes
Do they make it in a direct mount for DH bike?
Not yet, but that is in the works. No details yet on a release date though.
You know you can just add spacers under a short direct mount stem,right? No need to waste 400$
@@almabatekert_villanykorte3387 You know you can just not cut your steerer tube and run a bunch of spacers on a single crown, RiGhT? 🤪
@@Chops00 Yeah. And i did exactly that🤠 A few spacers and a high rise bar with a short stem work just fine without looking too ridiculous
I wouldn't want to corner with that thing, that's going to take a whole bunch of weight off the front end, resulting in washout city, almost like riding a chopper, it would probably be good at bombing down steep tracks, but that's about it, I noticed less front end grip when I raised my bars by 15mm.
Welp no I will order some 60mm rise bars haha
From the RAD fit to this reverse stem, it seems that all this is geared for riders who value technical DH. No XC rider would ever consider such a high position when peddling efficiency and climbing are critical.
What's XC? Is that the people that try to ride the wrong bike for the wrong terrain claiming they enjoy the pain?
Idk. Ergonomics are important too. Aero isn’t nearly as much of an issue for xc vs road. So having a more comfortable open position might be beneficial.
@@50centHotDog my comment was not about aero. It is mostly about climbing and peddling efficiency. Even the presenter admitted that this stem only makes sense in downhills and he was faster with a normal stem.
Do we really need to spend 400 USA dollars? Why don’t we just ask fork companies to make the steering tube longer and use a regular reversed stem?
What do you mean? Have you seen a fork from the factory? The steering tube is always long,but bike manufacturers don't like to give you any adjustability on that so they cut them very short
Lee McCormack is like 🥸
I have a rulezman HC-v3 for sale if anyone wants similar performance with good looks
How much?
@@briancahal make ma a fair offer but factor in that there is no other on the market and it costed me 300$ with shipping plus the tax.
@@ianiscaratti4924 I’ll make you an offer. Email me at briancahal01@gmail.com
@@ianiscaratti4924is this still available?
😂
First
Well, if you dont cut your fork you can save yourself 150$. Life hack for free.
Most forks have a max 30-35mm spacer height so...
if you wanna get made fun of by your friends, and mess up your geo get this
Just like every other "paid" review uploaded this month: no one has video smashing rock gardens & no one published any strava times.
I've tried mega stack, it feels great up until you ride steep downhills and hit rocks or heavy brake. The rear wheel lifts off the ground with minimal front braking
None of the reviews have ever been paid for. I have zero marketing budget and Be More Bikes is just me. None of the reviews that have recently come out or previously come out by Brian Cahal, Mountain Bike Action, The Loam Wolf, or Seth from Berm Peak Express have had any financial incentive to say anything positive about the RR stem. I feel they have all been very honest, and pretty fair all things considered. None of them had any input from me during their review either, and I had no influence on what went into the reviews. I didn’t even get to see any of them before they were uploaded. I’m pretty sure they would be legally obligated to disclose if this was paid advertising.
You’re that person.
This isn’t the same as what you did.
He’s a guy trying to innovate to make mtbing better. I doubt he’s paying anyone. We need more people like him, and less people like you. So post a vid or go away.
Your feeling makes no sense. I ride a bike with a extremely long steerer tube with like 3 inches under my stem and high rise bars. This setting is what I came to after years of tinkering. Taller stack makes it so much easier to jump, bunny hop, corner vs a low stack. More modern bikes are starting to have stack height in the 650s now. It makes more of a difference in those things than a short chainstay and tall bb.
In no way would a taller stack make you feel like it wants to lift the back wheel off the ground under heavy braking or steep terrain. You are stood more taller and behind the bars with more weight centered on your pedals. It's common sense.
A lower stack feels like you are being pulled down and forward. It feels weird as hell on flat ground and down right scary down steep sections. I have tried many different stem heights with negative rise or positive rise on the stem, and I have to try so much harder to bunny hop with it at the slammed position. Its like I need like 3-5 tries to get one good hop vs literally just jumping immediately.
It took me a while to break free from the normal conversations of geometry before I just said fuck it and went as tall as I could.
Just like every other "paid" review uploaded this month: no one has video smashing rock gardens & no one published any strava times.
I've tried mega stack, it feels great up until you ride steep downhills and hit rocks or heavy brake. The rear wheel lifts off the ground with minimal front braking
None of the reviews have ever been paid for. I have zero marketing budget and Be More Bikes is just me. None of the reviews that have recently come out or previously come out by Brian Cahal, Mountain Bike Action, The Loam Wolf, or Seth from Berm Peak Express have had any financial incentive to say anything positive about the RR stem. I feel they have all been very honest, and pretty fair all things considered. None of them had any input from me during their review either, and I had no influence on what went into the reviews. I didn’t even get to see any of them before they were uploaded. I’m pretty sure they would be legally obligated to disclose if this was paid advertising.
Yes. The guy who dropped all his sponsors to be able to review stuff with no bias is shilling for a small brand with no budget for that kind of stuff? Like dude just not what's happening
The issues you mentioned from your experience with the mega stack aligns with what I found also just going higher without the Reversed offset. Basically what I felt was that my weight would end up all in my hands with a lot of leverage pushing forward like the bike wanted to tip forward. This is in part due to an increased endo angle that makes the front more prone to flipping forward instead of rolling over things. The RR stem is not the same as that. The further back position of the Reversed offset reduces your endo angle with a hand to front axle position comparable to around a 59 degree headtube angle, and all of your weight supported through your feet actually further weighting the rear end. This lighter front end light hands position actually makes the front wheel more prone to rolling over large obstacles instead of getting caught up and sending you forward. When braking very hard, you can load the bike through the bottom bracket to drive your weight down through both the front and rear wheels actually keeping the rear on the ground instead of trying to flip you forward with the rear lifting. This allows you to actually brake harder.
@@bemorebikes show me you can push/roll the bike upstairs very slowly without the bike endo-ing. Just pushing forwards on the bars and standing next to the bike, I'll bet you it just hits the first step and gets stuck
@@bemorebikesyou should also get Lee mccormacks review on this. Very well respected guy when it comes to bike fit and geo