Just an update, but this works. I was getting about .009" between raising and lowering the blade. Used a feeler gauge to figure out how much to shim, and now theres only .001-.002" when full raise/full lower. I just shimmed the bolt closest to the back of the cabinet..in my testing, this worked fine. For my application, i had to use a 1.9mm washer. protip: you dont *have* to remove the motor, you just need a t-handle 5mm and an l-bend 5mm cut short. Between raising and lowering the blade, you can get access to the bolts. You only need to remove the one you are shimming, and just loosen the other two enough to insert the shim. Afterwards, the raise/lower mechanism had quite a bit of friction now that the two parts were in contact, but 10-20 cycles and a little graphite made it acceptable.
FINALLY someone has documented this! With video! Good job man. I have this same saw with the same problem and your proposed solution has promise, but I would think 'bending' (unevenness) would occur if you did not put the same thickness washer where the large motor mount is at the front of the saw too, (not sure though). The other questionable part regarding this alignment issue is located just on the other side of where you are focusing, and that's the flimsy looking plate with 3 allen bolts through it where the arbor support slides up and down in the slot... Why they would not use something more sturdy is beyond me, but they didn't. A heavier plate would be optimal, but at least they could have countersunk and installed flush screw on the other side of this plate. I may try both of these solutions, but if it doesn't solve, it's going back. Shame too, because there really is no other NEW saw that can be had at this price point, and I cannot afford to spend over 600 bucks on a TS BTW, I had HD refund 100 bucks of the purchase price just for my troubles, so I got it for just over 4 bills ;^}
Thanks for the feedback! I actually ended up making another shortly following this one going into further detail regarding the issue but accidently deleted off my camera before I had an opportunity to upload it. Turns out a "bent hanger" isn't the issue like I initially suspected. The "gap" that is shown in the video is actually a symptom of the real underlying problem. I ended up tracing the problem to the front "guide rail" on the saw that allows the blade to tilt to 45*. The front right side was actually too far towards the front of the table making the front and rear out of parallel. This created slop in the whole mechanism and caused shifting towards the rear of the blade. My suspicion is that the holes were drilled and tapped for the trunnion bolts inconsistently at the factory. Some are good, some are bad. Shimming will help you at 0* somewhat but isn't a complete fix.
Tried this fix and it did work. I put washers in between the gear and the motor so there is no more slop between the gear and the trunnion. Obviously return it if you have this issue, but if you are outside of your return period, go for it.
Awesome! Glad to hear that my 'fix' worked! My suspicion is that it's only effective when the blade is at 90*. Have you tested it when the blade is at say 15/30/45? Thanks for testing the method out and confirming that it's effective!!
I have same issue... I was looking for videos on how to adjust the blade because I new the rear of the blade is out of alignment with the front. Then I found this and make perfect sense.
Guys... you dont need to shim that to get it straight. That's definitely not the intended solution. Where the blade bolts on there is a washer clamp. Remove the washer clamp and there is 3 grub screws around the ring. Those grub screws finely adjust the blade pitch.
I have this saw as well. And since I'm watching your video...you guessed it. I have the same problem. Ive read the manual about adjusting blade to miter slots and I'm going to try aligning that first. But you bet I'm going to do the measurements you did. Thanks for the video post man.
Newer saws have a revised piece that has the Romans Numeral "II" stamped on it and is trimmed at the end and is beefier. Some people have reported that sometimes their saw started fine and got worse with time, suggesting binding. The new revision fixes this issue, too. Some report calling Ridgid and getting sent the new piece. Some report customer service having no knowledge of a fix.
I have been looking at my saw for the last hour and think that the problem is that there is a bearing assembly that the whole part pivots around and the axle in that assembly appears to have bent due to the load of the motor being upside down during shipping. To test my theory would require a major disassembly of the saw, but if it is bent and can be somehow bent back this might be the best fix. Now I'm just trying to decide to take on the task of taking the beast apart, a somewhat daunting task!
You can bring you saw into a service center and depending on how bad the movement is they *may* replace your trunnion. Even with the new trunnion people are getting movement and in some cases people bring their saw in and the service center says it's fine.
thesergeant This is what happened to me. I brought mine in, after 2 months of waiting to get the parts they replaced the trunnion, arbor, and worm gear, and now it's worse than it was before. Service center is 2 hours away, and the saw isn't light. Now Ridgid is telling me that I have to bring it back so they can do it all over again. This is possibly the worst customer service I have had with any tool I have purchased. I would recommend to anyone looking at this saw to look elsewhere. Spend the extra money and get a saw with cabinet mounted trunnion's. All of the low cost saw's with table mounted trunnion's are manufactured in the same plant with the same problem.
Great Vid!! I just picked up a craftsman 21833 (same saw) and have the same issue you do except i am getting >0.020" when i drop the blade. Did you end up finding one that worked for you or did you go with another saw? I am in the same boat in that I am returning but am not sure if I will gamble again...
I ended up returning this particular saw and took a gamble on a second one. Not only did the first one have the .015" blade shift, but it also had .0015 arbor flange runout which result in ~.006" blade wobble. The arbor runout + the blade shift was enough to get me to return it. I figured if the 2nd one didn't work out I'd just return it and spend the extra cash to get the Grizzly hybrid. The replacement still has some blade shift but it's only .003" if I forget to back off the tension after raising the blade. The arbor flange on the replacement was near perfect at about .0005" runout, so that was also a big improvement. So as long as I remember to "back it off" a little after raising the blade it's perfectly parallel, but even if I forget it's only .003" off. Considering how "inexpensive" the saw is, that's something I can live with. Goodluck!
thesergeant Do you know the date this new saw was manufactured? I've seen a thread saying Ridgid has a new trunnion to address the issue and I'm wondering what might be the magic date to have the new trunnion vs. old.
Aaron Koch The one is this video was manufactured in 2013 I believe. I purchased it new 12/8/13 and remember seeing a label on the box that mentioned the it was shipped to the store sometime in March 2013. My new saw showed a shipping label of October 2013 and still has the issue, except it's more minor. I thoroughly inspected the trunion assemblies on both saws and they appeared to be the same. Do you have a link to the thread? I'd be interested in checking it out.
thesergeant Check posts by BeeFarmer in this thread. lumberjocks.com/topics/57129 I found a saw with date code of October 2013 and considering rolling the dice.
I returned the saw in the video and got another. The replacement still had the same problem but the shift is ~.005" vs. the .015" on the first saw. I decided to keep the saw and have just gotten in the habit of "backing tension off" after I raise the blade. It's worked for me and for the price I paid for the saw I'm happy. The "fix" in the video doesn't' actually address the underlying problem, just the symptom. I believe the table tops weren't drilled/tapped accurately and the trunnion as a result is skewed when installed. This creates the play shown in the video. Unfortunately nothing can be done about that. You can "shim it" but it's only effective at 90* since the gap widens as you tilt the blade. Goodluck!
Hey Sgt. How about just putting a washer on the head side of the mount bolt to push the gear to closer to close the gap. I'm about to buy that same saw. I feel like it's great saw but this issue has me second guessing my decision. Should I or should I not buy this saw?
i wouldn't buy it. there are wayyy too many that are defective like mine. i'm going to return mine this weekend. i'm going to open up another box while I'm there and see if there's a gap. If it's gap free I'll take another gamble, if not I'll just get a refund and get a Grizzly G0715P. The alignment problem is just one of the many issues with this saw. Others have also had problems with split fence going out of alignment.
The surface of the blade itself may not be true so your 15/1000 measurement could be from inconsistent finish of the blade and not the saw but your shim seemed to help...try a second blade to measure from. If the results are the same then shim it or return it?
+lonz73 When doing this type of measurement you have to first measure the high spot on the blade and then mark that point with a little dot with a sharpie. Then you always measurement from that point on both the front and rear, this will remove any error you may have in measuring that would be the result of blade flatness or arbor run out. I ended up returning this saw since it had both blade shifting and arbor runout. My new one is spot on: ua-cam.com/video/7eaAwsJEC6w/v-deo.html
+lonz73 Definitely would recommend it for homeowner use but it really depends on what you intend on building with it. If you're doing home improvement type stuff and don't necessarily need the 'precision' to the millimeter and don't have a 4" dust collection I'd look into the 'jobsite saws' or portable contractors saws. These take up much less space, are easy to move around and don't suffer from some of the issues that the R4512 has. Goodluck!
+thesergeant I aim to build cabinets for my shop, dressers and tables for personal use...shop vac dust collection with improvised cyclone:( searching for a larger saw that rolls on casters so I only need to build out feed table and in feed supports...suppose I could buy a small portable saw and build a 4' x 6' rolling table to set it into and make my own fence and rule scale....my search continues, lol. Thanks for your input :)
Aside from returning, has anyone brought their saw into a service center to have this issue corrected? Sure, moving this thing would be a pain in the ass, but wouldn't the initial 3 year warranty cover this? I'm just curious if anyone tried it and if it was fixed.
I have a new R4512 and fortunately do not have the problem you are discussing. However, I am having a problem that I could use anyone's help with. I have checked the alignment of my blade from front to back after watching a ton of videos about how to do that. I used an absolute zero digital caliper that measures out to .0001". Setting the caliper in a miter slot holder I got a reading of .9580" on the back and .9575" on the front, a difference of .0005" front to back. If I'm readying that right, that's 5/10,000's of an inch off, correct? If that's correct, then I can't figure out why I'm getting burn marks on my wood when I run it through. I'm cutting runners to build a cross-cut sled and have the fence set to as close as I can get it using the same calipers. I've adjusted the fence by tapping it before every cut to get it as close to the same distance from the front and back of the blade as I can when I clamp it down. This is a new saw and I've only put maybe 10 pieces of wood on it. What am I doing wrong? Surely it can't be that the blade is dull. Looking for any advice from you experienced folks. Thanks.
I'm guessing you're using maple? It has a tendency to burn much easier than most other woods. Your blade sounds like it's dialed in with your miter slot but is your fence also dialed in? The fence can be a bear to adjust. Also, are you using the stock blade? Consider upgrading to a Freud D1040X (40tooth), the difference is dramatic. After exchanging my first saw I didn't even bother using the stock blade, it's still brand new sitting on the side of the saw. Make sure your feed rate is consistent as well. Goodluck!
thesergeant I was cutting oak for the runners. The fence is dialed in as far as I know. I've seen video's where guy took much rougher measurements using a tape than I did to set up the fence. I'll go check it over again as well as change the blade out to some others I have to see if I get any improvement. I've heard getting a higher end blade makes a big difference. A friend recommended Forest the other day. Thanks for your reply. Back to the calibration attempt.
How wide is the kerf of your blade vs. the splitter. If the splitter is made for thin kerf, and you're using normal kerf blades, this could allow the rear to close up some and cause burning. Likewise, many woodworkers adjust their fence to allow just a couple of thousandths of runout at the back to stop kickback and burning.
5 thou is not that big of an issue that would cause burning, check your fence with the dial indicator at front and rear. For example if your blade is 5 thou toward the fence and your fence is 5 thou toward the blade you are now getting a 10 thou pinching effect and can be a kickback hazard. Also measure the run out by placing the dial indicator at the middle of the blade and rotate the blade and see how that works( with the saw off of course). Lastly while the dial is in the middle of the blade raise and lower the blade and watch for any variation. Hopefully yours is not like my first two were and when u raise or lower it goes out of alignment by 15 thou. 3 returns later and I am still unhappy
I wrote a message to Ridgid: 5/12/2014 My message I am considering purchasing your R4512 Table saw. However, I have read about some alignment issues that it has had. Somewhere somebody suggested that it had been corrected. 1. Is this true? 2. how can I tell if the one in the store is one of the fixed saws? Ridgid's reply: 5/12/2014 1. No, there is not a known problem effecting RIDGID table saw model R4512 as a whole, for there to be some type of fix developed for. 2. There are no saws in stores that are known to be in need of being fixed. I don't know if this helps anyone
Can't decide if I should get this saw (and probably have to fix it), or get the 'more-expensive' Grizzly G0715P. Does anyone have experience with that saw??
I would'nt. They supposedly fixed this problem but would you buy a product from a company that refused to ackknowledge they had a widespread problem with thier product?
You're right. That price is so tempting, but i'm leaning towards the Grizzly. It still has table mounted-trunnions but at least it seems like a much higher quality machine.
Kyle Comeaux I thought I had replied to your original comment but I'm not seeing it. Anyway, you might want to look into the Grizzly further. Apparently they have the same problem as the Ridgid.
Yes, i'd seen at least one review where there was an alignment issue with the grizzly. .. I hate to use the phrase lesser of two evils, but it seems that the Grizzly has less circumstances with the alignment issues (comparing reviews on one side vs. the other). But I mean, is getting a full-cabinet saw the only way to avoid an alignment issue? It just seems crazy that there wouldn't be a reliable/accurate saw for under $1,000.
I very nearly bought this saw. Like many others, I have my fair share of Ridgid tools. They sure as hell are not as good as they once were. I JUST bought a 10" sliding compound miter saw. Right out of the box, there were defects that caused me to return it. The second one was better. In fact, the second one is as good as it could be given its manufacturing. Looks like it will do what I want it to do after my first project. But my issue is that for $400, the saw on the whole is cheaply made. We know these things are made in China. But now a days there are two types of product coming from china. There is the stuff that is actually very good. And there is the stuff that clearly is lacking fine engineering. The difference is the company that you are buying from. For example, I have a Viper winch on my ATV. These winches were designed right here in the USA by a man that started his own company. He employees a hand full of people stateside. He contracted with a chinease company to build his products. But they buid them to his specifications. And the result is a great winch. Other companies, like Ridgid for example, have also contracted with a chinease company to build thier products. These tools are being made on the cheap. There is NO QUESTION about that. My slider suffers from this. And clearly this table saw suffers from it too. It's a crying shame too, becasue as seems to be the case with many of their tools, they hit a sweet spot in the price table, and in the features offered. This saw COULD BE brilliant, especially for the money. But the two most important parts of the saw, the fence and the blade alignment, can not be an issue. Those are the two things that absolutely have to be right. If you can't depend on the blade staying in alignment, than you might as well use a $140 circular saw. I love the idea of the features and the price, both on my slider and on this table saw. But FFS, I would pay more to have them built right. And this new lifetime warranty bullshit they can stick in their ass. Register for an account. Answer a bunch of personal information that really has nothing to do with taking care of their products, and lets make it take 45 min to register a tool. And what do you get in the end? You have to send your tool out to a qualified service repair shop, which could take up to 5-7 weeks to get your tool back, only to be told that there is nothing wrong with your peice of equipment. I don't think so. My previous experience with the slider and now this video on the table saw has put me off of buying ridgid anymore. Hell even their cordless drills are not as great as they once were. On to Grizzly I guessl.
I completely agree and I am in the same boat, I almost bought this saw. One day i went to home depot and i played around with the raising mechanism and could see with my eye the arbor moving as I tightened it.Recently it went on sale at home depot for $100 less and they sold like hotcakes, but these were a more recent manufacture date which supposedly had a new thicker trunnion installed, but i would not trust it no matter what. I wonder who all those were that bought this saw without doing thier proper research on it. Its all over the internet these problems and they are still buying this POS. I waited patiently and got a Delta 36-725 on sale for 489 and its awesome, i could not be happier. No problems at all, i am glad i waited!
I agree totally that Ridgid tools are nowhere near what they used to be. I believe the change came when the brand was bought by a new company (Emerson Electric, I think). I have a fifteen year old Ridgid TS2400 10-inch made before the switch to orange. I love it dearly, but can't use it anymore. I can't find replacement brushes for it. The new owners don't stock them and a rep pretty much told me that it wasn't his problem. I bought an R4512, assembled it upside down per instructions, then flipped it and checked the table with a straightedge. it was so bad I could slip a playing card under the straightedge in spots. The next day I exchanged it and assembled another R4512 Since then I dumped the base for a home-made one and have been adjusting different things. Now I am finding my blade is out of alignment. My riving knife snags on stock if I try to use it in the low position and I can't adjust it. I'm done with Ridgid
I happen to be looking at this saw as well as the craftsman. they happen to be the only two in my area and my price range. The portable saws can't do what this one can. It is too bad they have this defect. So I am left with no real choice. I have heard that other saws have the same defect... like Grizzly hybrid and a few others. I wonder if enough people complained would there be a recall? I doubt it. still can't hurt.
This was driving me crazy, then i found this video. Thanks to all who have contributed. I thought i had the saw zero'd, but as time went on, the tolerance just went away. I'm in the middle of a big job, it has to be accurate, and now it looks like i'll have to spend the rest of the day trying these fixes. I agree with Vladlashing, how the hell can a company sell this sort of thing? Good grief, it would of been so simple to make this so you could align it. Of course, since it is not a 'true' hybrid, we're back to the job site quality. I'm about to rename my shop the Elusive Square.
Ya, the frustration with these new machines is overwhelming. Almost all the tools in my shop are vintage Delta/Powermatic/Walker-Turner now. I got rid of most of my modern stuff with the exception of my Laguna table saw. I only keep the Laguna because I want the riving knife. Once I get the riving knife situation sorted out I'm getting a 1950s Unisaw to retrofit. The new stuff is garbage unless you pay top dollar.
Here's what i ended up doing. I put a block under the motor to support it, and then i released the housing for the tilt mechanism. This allowed me to put the alignment back. I suspect, even though i had to put a short piece of pipe on the allen key to loosen all 4 trunnion bolts, that the tilt mechanism puts it out of alignment due to the way it is supported. I do have the newer trunnion which you can note because there is a roman numeral II stamped into it visible on the right side(from the rear). I was able to get it within about .0006~!~ Which was insane after all the time i spent. Had i started like this, it would of only taken me about a half hour to true! Of course, none of my sleds were true anymore and i had to redo the fence. I've been cutting tenons on it now for a week, and it is still lined up. I'm cutting maple with a Frued rip blade, as i couldn't get the Woodworker II blade when i needed it. Needless to say, it will be with great trepidation that i tilt the blade any time soon. Looking back, i might of been better off rebuilding my Delta Table saw. It had a solid flat as glass cast iron table with wings. It never would of been able to cut this maple though, and i have my ridgid wired for 220, which regardless of what any one says, including my electrician friend, cuts far better at 220 than at 115. That might be due strictly to the dedicated line, i don't know. Thanks for the reply, i hope anyone else frustrated with this finds this and solves their problem. I never saw my solution anywhere. It came to me after i slept on it.
@@deanaoxo Can you take a video, or link to some photos that show how you fixed it? I'm in the same boat, and Ridgid has told me to pound sand because I didn't register in the first 90 days. Done buying Ridgid. Never again. When they're unwilling to correct a defect, and in some cases, refuse to even acknowledge it, why would I trust the product? They clearly don't.
Kyle Hammer sorry brother, I’m in Maine(my shop and home r n Florida)but the saw has been great once I watched all the vids and did what I wrote about above. I still use a machinist square every time i tilt it, to check true and i always check my fence alignment which i will most likely replace with another John Heinz (I built it) fence. Meanwhile i had another Ridgid tool eat it after very little use, and since I’m on the road can’t do anything about it. My very expensive circular saw just quit running. Light comes on, no spinning. My Ridgid surface planer after the absolute bullshit of replacement motor through the Ridgid warranty program was dropped or misaligned after i brought it in, worked for about a week. POS bought a used Delta, it works great.
I don't care what Ridgid labels this saw as. it is not Hybrid saw. A true Hybrid saw has cabinet mounted trunnions.and that is the issue with all these freaking contractor saws with tabletop mounted trunnions. the only freaking hybrid thing about this is dust collection. 99.9% of all contractor saws have issue with alignment and constantly have to be adjusted due to tabletop mounted trunnions.
It has a "lifetime service agreement". The return period ends after 90 days, then you have to bring the saw into an authorized service center to be repaired. Several people have brought theirs in for repair and either was told there was no issue or that it was 'repaired' but no improvement was recognized.
I also have the R4512 that has this alignment issue. To fix the problem you can either buy the PALS CTS alignment kit 3/8 inch sold by Peachtree Woodworking Supply Inc and modify the 3/8 hole to fit the 10mm trunnion bolts or do what I did made my own PALS. Amazon: www.amazon.com/PALS-CTS-alignment-kit/dp/B0036B0V22/ref=sr_1_2/179-7435106-0634233?ie=UTF8&qid=1401332439&sr=8-2&keywords=pals+table+saw Using same principle as the PALS, I bought a 2"x2" piece of 1/8" angle iron (13$ plus tax at Home depot) and made my own PALS by cutting two pieces 1-1/4 inch wide, cut down 1" off of the side that faces upwards to the bottom of the cast iron table top (keep from hitting the bottom of the table top), using 5/16 inch bolts & nuts (had these on hand) as the set stop,. also re-used the original 10mm trunnion bolts and washers to hold the homemade PALS in place. I also had to use a rat file to elongate the holes in the trunnions to allow for more side movement. To remove the rear trunnion I just placed a couple of 2x4's over top of the dust shoot (long enough to sit on the metal part of the bottom) under the main trunnion and and set a small hydraulic jack on top of the 2x4's to support the trunnion/motor assembly and then removed the rear trunnion, elongating out both holes with the rat file. I also had to do the same to the front trunnion. If you don't have all the tools needed to make your own PALS just buy the kits and modify the 3/8" holes. Using the PALS makes the whole alignment process simple plus they give you the ability to lock down the trunnion preventing it to slide back out of alignment.
Thanks for the info! Very good stuff. Unfortunately the movement isn't at the junction where the trunnion meets the table top, so the PALS won't help . The shifting is occurring because the trunnion is shifting in the sliding track. The front and rear trunnion mounting holes that are drilled into the cast iron top don't appear to be parallel. When you raise and lower the blade the rear twists out of alignment because the front right trunnion bolt is drilled too far forward creating slop in the system. Some are better than others. PALS upgrade is a nice one though and definitely helps in paralleling the blade to the miter slot but won't help with the shifting shown in the video.
Just an update, but this works. I was getting about .009" between raising and lowering the blade. Used a feeler gauge to figure out how much to shim, and now theres only .001-.002" when full raise/full lower. I just shimmed the bolt closest to the back of the cabinet..in my testing, this worked fine. For my application, i had to use a 1.9mm washer. protip: you dont *have* to remove the motor, you just need a t-handle 5mm and an l-bend 5mm cut short. Between raising and lowering the blade, you can get access to the bolts. You only need to remove the one you are shimming, and just loosen the other two enough to insert the shim.
Afterwards, the raise/lower mechanism had quite a bit of friction now that the two parts were in contact, but 10-20 cycles and a little graphite made it acceptable.
Thank you for the confirmation! We now have 2 confirmed 'fixes'. Great to hear people are able to address the problem on their own using the method
FINALLY someone has documented this! With video! Good job man.
I have this same saw with the same problem and your proposed solution has promise, but I would think 'bending' (unevenness) would occur if you did not put the same thickness washer where the large motor mount is at the front of the saw too, (not sure though).
The other questionable part regarding this alignment issue is located just on the other side of where you are focusing, and that's the flimsy looking plate with 3 allen bolts through it where the arbor support slides up and down in the slot...
Why they would not use something more sturdy is beyond me, but they didn't.
A heavier plate would be optimal, but at least they could have countersunk and installed flush screw on the other side of this plate. I may try both of these solutions, but if it doesn't solve, it's going back.
Shame too, because there really is no other NEW saw that can be had at this price point, and I cannot afford to spend over 600 bucks on a TS
BTW, I had HD refund 100 bucks of the purchase price just for my troubles, so I got it for just over 4 bills ;^}
Thanks for the feedback! I actually ended up making another shortly following this one going into further detail regarding the issue but accidently deleted off my camera before I had an opportunity to upload it.
Turns out a "bent hanger" isn't the issue like I initially suspected. The "gap" that is shown in the video is actually a symptom of the real underlying problem. I ended up tracing the problem to the front "guide rail" on the saw that allows the blade to tilt to 45*. The front right side was actually too far towards the front of the table making the front and rear out of parallel. This created slop in the whole mechanism and caused shifting towards the rear of the blade.
My suspicion is that the holes were drilled and tapped for the trunnion bolts inconsistently at the factory. Some are good, some are bad.
Shimming will help you at 0* somewhat but isn't a complete fix.
Tried this fix and it did work. I put washers in between the gear and the motor so there is no more slop between the gear and the trunnion. Obviously return it if you have this issue, but if you are outside of your return period, go for it.
Awesome! Glad to hear that my 'fix' worked! My suspicion is that it's only effective when the blade is at 90*. Have you tested it when the blade is at say 15/30/45? Thanks for testing the method out and confirming that it's effective!!
thesergeant
I have only tested it at 90*. Sounds like a little project for tomorrow and i will post the results when finished
dlukso597 Did you ever test it when the blade is at 45 degrees? I'm curious to know what you found.
Yes please share some light about this
I have same issue... I was looking for videos on how to adjust the blade because I new the rear of the blade is out of alignment with the front. Then I found this and make perfect sense.
Guys... you dont need to shim that to get it straight. That's definitely not the intended solution. Where the blade bolts on there is a washer clamp. Remove the washer clamp and there is 3 grub screws around the ring. Those grub screws finely adjust the blade pitch.
I have this saw as well. And since I'm watching your video...you guessed it. I have the same problem. Ive read the manual about adjusting blade to miter slots and I'm going to try aligning that first. But you bet I'm going to do the measurements you did. Thanks for the video post man.
I guess I’m way late to this party. Just installed a 1.5mm washer and realigned the blade and fence. Seems to be fixed. Thank you.
Newer saws have a revised piece that has the Romans Numeral "II" stamped on it and is trimmed at the end and is beefier. Some people have reported that sometimes their saw started fine and got worse with time, suggesting binding. The new revision fixes this issue, too. Some report calling Ridgid and getting sent the new piece. Some report customer service having no knowledge of a fix.
I actually got this unit a few days ago - with the roman numerals, and it behaves exactly like in this video :( - including the razor/shim fix.
I have been looking at my saw for the last hour and think that the problem is that there is a bearing assembly that the whole part pivots around and the axle in that assembly appears to have bent due to the load of the motor being upside down during shipping. To test my theory would require a major disassembly of the saw, but if it is bent and can be somehow bent back this might be the best fix. Now I'm just trying to decide to take on the task of taking the beast apart, a somewhat daunting task!
Ahh the good old Harbor Freight Pittsburgh center punch.
There was a styrofoam spacer supporting the motor on my saw during shipment.
l have the same problem. Any updates on this fix. This is a safety issue. Has Ridgid responded in anyway?
You can bring you saw into a service center and depending on how bad the movement is they *may* replace your trunnion. Even with the new trunnion people are getting movement and in some cases people bring their saw in and the service center says it's fine.
thesergeant
This is what happened to me. I brought mine in, after 2 months of waiting to get the parts they replaced the trunnion, arbor, and worm gear, and now it's worse than it was before. Service center is 2 hours away, and the saw isn't light. Now Ridgid is telling me that I have to bring it back so they can do it all over again. This is possibly the worst customer service I have had with any tool I have purchased.
I would recommend to anyone looking at this saw to look elsewhere. Spend the extra money and get a saw with cabinet mounted trunnion's. All of the low cost saw's with table mounted trunnion's are manufactured in the same plant with the same problem.
Great Vid!! I just picked up a craftsman 21833 (same saw) and have the same issue you do except i am getting >0.020" when i drop the blade.
Did you end up finding one that worked for you or did you go with another saw? I am in the same boat in that I am returning but am not sure if I will gamble again...
I ended up returning this particular saw and took a gamble on a second one. Not only did the first one have the .015" blade shift, but it also had .0015 arbor flange runout which result in ~.006" blade wobble. The arbor runout + the blade shift was enough to get me to return it. I figured if the 2nd one didn't work out I'd just return it and spend the extra cash to get the Grizzly hybrid. The replacement still has some blade shift but it's only .003" if I forget to back off the tension after raising the blade. The arbor flange on the replacement was near perfect at about .0005" runout, so that was also a big improvement. So as long as I remember to "back it off" a little after raising the blade it's perfectly parallel, but even if I forget it's only .003" off. Considering how "inexpensive" the saw is, that's something I can live with.
Goodluck!
thesergeant Do you know the date this new saw was manufactured? I've seen a thread saying Ridgid has a new trunnion to address the issue and I'm wondering what might be the magic date to have the new trunnion vs. old.
Aaron Koch The one is this video was manufactured in 2013 I believe. I purchased it new 12/8/13 and remember seeing a label on the box that mentioned the it was shipped to the store sometime in March 2013.
My new saw showed a shipping label of October 2013 and still has the issue, except it's more minor. I thoroughly inspected the trunion assemblies on both saws and they appeared to be the same. Do you have a link to the thread? I'd be interested in checking it out.
thesergeant Check posts by BeeFarmer in this thread. lumberjocks.com/topics/57129 I found a saw with date code of October 2013 and considering rolling the dice.
Aaron Koch
Where is the date code located on the saw?
Thanks for the video. Im also waiting for a permanent fix, instead of taking a gamble. Any updates since you made the video? Thanks again.
I returned the saw in the video and got another. The replacement still had the same problem but the shift is ~.005" vs. the .015" on the first saw. I decided to keep the saw and have just gotten in the habit of "backing tension off" after I raise the blade. It's worked for me and for the price I paid for the saw I'm happy.
The "fix" in the video doesn't' actually address the underlying problem, just the symptom. I believe the table tops weren't drilled/tapped accurately and the trunnion as a result is skewed when installed. This creates the play shown in the video. Unfortunately nothing can be done about that. You can "shim it" but it's only effective at 90* since the gap widens as you tilt the blade. Goodluck!
Hey Sgt. How about just putting a washer on the head side of the mount bolt to push the gear to closer to close the gap. I'm about to buy that same saw. I feel like it's great saw but this issue has me second guessing my decision. Should I or should I not buy this saw?
i wouldn't buy it. there are wayyy too many that are defective like mine. i'm going to return mine this weekend. i'm going to open up another box while I'm there and see if there's a gap. If it's gap free I'll take another gamble, if not I'll just get a refund and get a Grizzly G0715P.
The alignment problem is just one of the many issues with this saw. Others have also had problems with split fence going out of alignment.
The surface of the blade itself may not be true so your 15/1000 measurement could be from inconsistent finish of the blade and not the saw but your shim seemed to help...try a second blade to measure from. If the results are the same then shim it or return it?
+lonz73 When doing this type of measurement you have to first measure the high spot on the blade and then mark that point with a little dot with a sharpie. Then you always measurement from that point on both the front and rear, this will remove any error you may have in measuring that would be the result of blade flatness or arbor run out. I ended up returning this saw since it had both blade shifting and arbor runout. My new one is spot on: ua-cam.com/video/7eaAwsJEC6w/v-deo.html
+thesergeant good to know, I was considering buying this model of saw for home owner type use...do you recommend it?
+lonz73 Definitely would recommend it for homeowner use but it really depends on what you intend on building with it. If you're doing home improvement type stuff and don't necessarily need the 'precision' to the millimeter and don't have a 4" dust collection I'd look into the 'jobsite saws' or portable contractors saws. These take up much less space, are easy to move around and don't suffer from some of the issues that the R4512 has. Goodluck!
+thesergeant I aim to build cabinets for my shop, dressers and tables for personal use...shop vac dust collection with improvised cyclone:( searching for a larger saw that rolls on casters so I only need to build out feed table and in feed supports...suppose I could buy a small portable saw and build a 4' x 6' rolling table to set it into and make my own fence and rule scale....my search continues, lol. Thanks for your input :)
+lonz73 being able to cut a dado up to 3/4" is a must!
Aside from returning, has anyone brought their saw into a service center to have this issue corrected? Sure, moving this thing would be a pain in the ass, but wouldn't the initial 3 year warranty cover this? I'm just curious if anyone tried it and if it was fixed.
I have a new R4512 and fortunately do not have the problem you are discussing. However, I am having a problem that I could use anyone's help with. I have checked the alignment of my blade from front to back after watching a ton of videos about how to do that. I used an absolute zero digital caliper that measures out to .0001". Setting the caliper in a miter slot holder I got a reading of .9580" on the back and .9575" on the front, a difference of .0005" front to back. If I'm readying that right, that's 5/10,000's of an inch off, correct?
If that's correct, then I can't figure out why I'm getting burn marks on my wood when I run it through. I'm cutting runners to build a cross-cut sled and have the fence set to as close as I can get it using the same calipers. I've adjusted the fence by tapping it before every cut to get it as close to the same distance from the front and back of the blade as I can when I clamp it down.
This is a new saw and I've only put maybe 10 pieces of wood on it. What am I doing wrong? Surely it can't be that the blade is dull. Looking for any advice from you experienced folks. Thanks.
I'm guessing you're using maple? It has a tendency to burn much easier than most other woods. Your blade sounds like it's dialed in with your miter slot but is your fence also dialed in? The fence can be a bear to adjust. Also, are you using the stock blade? Consider upgrading to a Freud D1040X (40tooth), the difference is dramatic. After exchanging my first saw I didn't even bother using the stock blade, it's still brand new sitting on the side of the saw. Make sure your feed rate is consistent as well. Goodluck!
thesergeant I was cutting oak for the runners. The fence is dialed in as far as I know. I've seen video's where guy took much rougher measurements using a tape than I did to set up the fence. I'll go check it over again as well as change the blade out to some others I have to see if I get any improvement. I've heard getting a higher end blade makes a big difference. A friend recommended Forest the other day. Thanks for your reply. Back to the calibration attempt.
How wide is the kerf of your blade vs. the splitter. If the splitter is made for thin kerf, and you're using normal kerf blades, this could allow the rear to close up some and cause burning. Likewise, many woodworkers adjust their fence to allow just a couple of thousandths of runout at the back to stop kickback and burning.
I just adjusted the fence to make up for the gap.
5 thou is not that big of an issue that would cause burning, check your fence with the dial indicator at front and rear. For example if your blade is 5 thou toward the fence and your fence is 5 thou toward the blade you are now getting a 10 thou pinching effect and can be a kickback hazard. Also measure the run out by placing the dial indicator at the middle of the blade and rotate the blade and see how that works( with the saw off of course). Lastly while the dial is in the middle of the blade raise and lower the blade and watch for any variation. Hopefully yours is not like my first two were and when u raise or lower it goes out of alignment by 15 thou. 3 returns later and I am still unhappy
I wrote a message to Ridgid: 5/12/2014
My message
I am considering purchasing your R4512 Table saw. However, I have read about some alignment issues that it has had. Somewhere somebody suggested that it had been corrected.
1. Is this true?
2. how can I tell if the one in the store is one of the fixed saws?
Ridgid's reply: 5/12/2014
1. No, there is not a known problem effecting RIDGID table saw model R4512 as a whole, for there to be some type of fix developed for.
2. There are no saws in stores that are known to be in need of being fixed.
I don't know if this helps anyone
Well I was going to buy this saw, but after hearing that so many can not be adjusted I will not buy this one, I do not need out of the box problems.
maybe over simplifying things but could you not just tighted the bolt on the side where there is the gap?
Can't decide if I should get this saw (and probably have to fix it), or get the 'more-expensive' Grizzly G0715P. Does anyone have experience with that saw??
I would'nt. They supposedly fixed this problem but would you buy a product from a company that refused to ackknowledge they had a widespread problem with thier product?
You're right. That price is so tempting, but i'm leaning towards the Grizzly. It still has table mounted-trunnions but at least it seems like a much higher quality machine.
Kyle Comeaux I thought I had replied to your original comment but I'm not seeing it. Anyway, you might want to look into the Grizzly further. Apparently they have the same problem as the Ridgid.
Yes, i'd seen at least one review where there was an alignment issue with the grizzly. .. I hate to use the phrase lesser of two evils, but it seems that the Grizzly has less circumstances with the alignment issues (comparing reviews on one side vs. the other). But I mean, is getting a full-cabinet saw the only way to avoid an alignment issue? It just seems crazy that there wouldn't be a reliable/accurate saw for under $1,000.
I very nearly bought this saw. Like many others, I have my fair share of Ridgid tools. They sure as hell are not as good as they once were. I JUST bought a 10" sliding compound miter saw. Right out of the box, there were defects that caused me to return it. The second one was better. In fact, the second one is as good as it could be given its manufacturing. Looks like it will do what I want it to do after my first project. But my issue is that for $400, the saw on the whole is cheaply made. We know these things are made in China. But now a days there are two types of product coming from china. There is the stuff that is actually very good. And there is the stuff that clearly is lacking fine engineering. The difference is the company that you are buying from. For example, I have a Viper winch on my ATV. These winches were designed right here in the USA by a man that started his own company. He employees a hand full of people stateside. He contracted with a chinease company to build his products. But they buid them to his specifications. And the result is a great winch. Other companies, like Ridgid for example, have also contracted with a chinease company to build thier products. These tools are being made on the cheap. There is NO QUESTION about that. My slider suffers from this. And clearly this table saw suffers from it too. It's a crying shame too, becasue as seems to be the case with many of their tools, they hit a sweet spot in the price table, and in the features offered. This saw COULD BE brilliant, especially for the money. But the two most important parts of the saw, the fence and the blade alignment, can not be an issue. Those are the two things that absolutely have to be right. If you can't depend on the blade staying in alignment, than you might as well use a $140 circular saw. I love the idea of the features and the price, both on my slider and on this table saw. But FFS, I would pay more to have them built right. And this new lifetime warranty bullshit they can stick in their ass. Register for an account. Answer a bunch of personal information that really has nothing to do with taking care of their products, and lets make it take 45 min to register a tool. And what do you get in the end? You have to send your tool out to a qualified service repair shop, which could take up to 5-7 weeks to get your tool back, only to be told that there is nothing wrong with your peice of equipment. I don't think so. My previous experience with the slider and now this video on the table saw has put me off of buying ridgid anymore. Hell even their cordless drills are not as great as they once were. On to Grizzly I guessl.
I completely agree and I am in the same boat, I almost bought this saw. One day i went to home depot and i played around with the raising mechanism and could see with my eye the arbor moving as I tightened it.Recently it went on sale at home depot for $100 less and they sold like hotcakes, but these were a more recent manufacture date which supposedly had a new thicker trunnion installed, but i would not trust it no matter what. I wonder who all those were that bought this saw without doing thier proper research on it. Its all over the internet these problems and they are still buying this POS. I waited patiently and got a Delta 36-725 on sale for 489 and its awesome, i could not be happier. No problems at all, i am glad i waited!
bandit123kat Hey, Bandit, where did you find that Delta on sale? That's a great price!
I agree totally that Ridgid tools are nowhere near what they used to be. I believe the change came when the brand was bought by a new company (Emerson Electric, I think). I have a fifteen year old Ridgid TS2400 10-inch made before the switch to orange. I love it dearly, but can't use it anymore. I can't find replacement brushes for it. The new owners don't stock them and a rep pretty much told me that it wasn't his problem. I bought an R4512, assembled it upside down per instructions, then flipped it and checked the table with a straightedge. it was so bad I could slip a playing card under the straightedge in spots. The next day I exchanged it and assembled another R4512 Since then I dumped the base for a home-made one and have been adjusting different things. Now I am finding my blade is out of alignment. My riving knife snags on stock if I try to use it in the low position and I can't adjust it. I'm done with Ridgid
I happen to be looking at this saw as well as the craftsman. they happen to be the only two in my area and my price range. The portable saws can't do what this one can. It is too bad they have this defect. So I am left with no real choice. I have heard that other saws have the same defect... like Grizzly hybrid and a few others.
I wonder if enough people complained would there be a recall? I doubt it. still can't hurt.
This was driving me crazy, then i found this video. Thanks to all who have contributed. I thought i had the saw zero'd, but as time went on, the tolerance just went away. I'm in the middle of a big job, it has to be accurate, and now it looks like i'll have to spend the rest of the day trying these fixes. I agree with Vladlashing, how the hell can a company sell this sort of thing? Good grief, it would of been so simple to make this so you could align it. Of course, since it is not a 'true' hybrid, we're back to the job site quality. I'm about to rename my shop the Elusive Square.
Ya, the frustration with these new machines is overwhelming. Almost all the tools in my shop are vintage Delta/Powermatic/Walker-Turner now. I got rid of most of my modern stuff with the exception of my Laguna table saw. I only keep the Laguna because I want the riving knife. Once I get the riving knife situation sorted out I'm getting a 1950s Unisaw to retrofit. The new stuff is garbage unless you pay top dollar.
Here's what i ended up doing. I put a block under the motor to support it, and then i released the housing for the tilt mechanism. This allowed me to put the alignment back. I suspect, even though i had to put a short piece of pipe on the allen key to loosen all 4 trunnion bolts, that the tilt mechanism puts it out of alignment due to the way it is supported. I do have the newer trunnion which you can note because there is a roman numeral II stamped into it visible on the right side(from the rear). I was able to get it within about .0006~!~ Which was insane after all the time i spent. Had i started like this, it would of only taken me about a half hour to true! Of course, none of my sleds were true anymore and i had to redo the fence. I've been cutting tenons on it now for a week, and it is still lined up. I'm cutting maple with a Frued rip blade, as i couldn't get the Woodworker II blade when i needed it. Needless to say, it will be with great trepidation that i tilt the blade any time soon. Looking back, i might of been better off rebuilding my Delta Table saw. It had a solid flat as glass cast iron table with wings. It never would of been able to cut this maple though, and i have my ridgid wired for 220, which regardless of what any one says, including my electrician friend, cuts far better at 220 than at 115. That might be due strictly to the dedicated line, i don't know. Thanks for the reply, i hope anyone else frustrated with this finds this and solves their problem. I never saw my solution anywhere. It came to me after i slept on it.
@@deanaoxo Can you take a video, or link to some photos that show how you fixed it? I'm in the same boat, and Ridgid has told me to pound sand because I didn't register in the first 90 days. Done buying Ridgid. Never again. When they're unwilling to correct a defect, and in some cases, refuse to even acknowledge it, why would I trust the product? They clearly don't.
Kyle Hammer sorry brother, I’m in Maine(my shop and home r n Florida)but the saw has been great once I watched all the vids and did what I wrote about above. I still use a machinist square every time i tilt it, to check true and i always check my fence alignment which i will most likely replace with another John Heinz (I built it) fence. Meanwhile i had another Ridgid tool eat it after very little use, and since I’m on the road can’t do anything about it. My very expensive circular saw just quit running. Light comes on, no spinning. My Ridgid surface planer after the absolute bullshit of replacement motor through the Ridgid warranty program was dropped or misaligned after i brought it in, worked for about a week. POS bought a used Delta, it works great.
I don't care what Ridgid labels this saw as. it is not Hybrid saw. A true Hybrid saw has cabinet mounted trunnions.and that is the issue with all these freaking contractor saws with tabletop mounted trunnions. the only freaking hybrid thing about this is dust collection.
99.9% of all contractor saws have issue with alignment and constantly have to be adjusted due to tabletop mounted trunnions.
if it has a lifetime warranty, just return it.
It has a "lifetime service agreement". The return period ends after 90 days, then you have to bring the saw into an authorized service center to be repaired. Several people have brought theirs in for repair and either was told there was no issue or that it was 'repaired' but no improvement was recognized.
I also have the R4512 that has this alignment issue. To fix the problem you can either buy the PALS CTS alignment kit 3/8 inch sold by Peachtree Woodworking Supply Inc and modify the 3/8 hole to fit the 10mm trunnion bolts or do what I did made my own PALS.
Amazon: www.amazon.com/PALS-CTS-alignment-kit/dp/B0036B0V22/ref=sr_1_2/179-7435106-0634233?ie=UTF8&qid=1401332439&sr=8-2&keywords=pals+table+saw
Using same principle as the PALS, I bought a 2"x2" piece of 1/8" angle iron (13$ plus tax at Home depot) and made my own PALS by cutting two pieces 1-1/4 inch wide, cut down 1" off of the side that faces upwards to the bottom of the cast iron table top (keep from hitting the bottom of the table top), using 5/16 inch bolts & nuts (had these on hand) as the set stop,. also re-used the original 10mm trunnion bolts and washers to hold the homemade PALS in place. I also had to use a rat file to elongate the holes in the trunnions to allow for more side movement.
To remove the rear trunnion I just placed a couple of 2x4's over top of the dust shoot (long enough to sit on the metal part of the bottom) under the main trunnion and and set a small hydraulic jack on top of the 2x4's to support the trunnion/motor assembly and then removed the rear trunnion, elongating out both holes with the rat file. I also had to do the same to the front trunnion.
If you don't have all the tools needed to make your own PALS just buy the kits and modify the 3/8" holes.
Using the PALS makes the whole alignment process simple plus they give you the ability to lock down the trunnion preventing it to slide back out of alignment.
Thanks for the info! Very good stuff. Unfortunately the movement isn't at the junction where the trunnion meets the table top, so the PALS won't help . The shifting is occurring because the trunnion is shifting in the sliding track. The front and rear trunnion mounting holes that are drilled into the cast iron top don't appear to be parallel. When you raise and lower the blade the rear twists out of alignment because the front right trunnion bolt is drilled too far forward creating slop in the system. Some are better than others.
PALS upgrade is a nice one though and definitely helps in paralleling the blade to the miter slot but won't help with the shifting shown in the video.
Thanks for the heads up.I "was" considering buying one.
I guess its just more of that Chinese junk that we are just suppose to take.