Hey guys! This video should help you avoid that ballooning effect that a lot of DCS World pilots experience as they put their flaps down on the downwind and then try to get to on speed AoA! As Always if you liked the video and want to help support the channel to keep the missions and content coming head over to my patreon! www.patreon.com/Spudknocker
Thanks Spud for the education on landing on runway and maintaining aoa. i'm really new to dcs and lov'in it bought a few things. 50yr old who says you cant teach old dogs new tricks. i've got to get more education on multiplayer. they need to get more radio operations atc etc thanks Pistol4570
You, sir! Are a life saver. I was having a habit of ballooning after the the first turn, then ending up in oscillations trying to trim, correct speed, and drop altitude before heading into the last turn. Thank you!
Yo Spud! 🥔 I tried it your way last night and landed nicely 5x in a row! Normally it’s ramp strike after ramp strike for me. Thanks! Keep up the videos! This is the first time that I actually PREFER the upwind and downwind leg patterns. They are necessary. At first I thought “really? They really do this? Sounds like a waste of time when you can just go straight in.”
Well I will certainly be damned! I went from not understanding this throttle/AOA/trim thing to being able to pull off a really great pattern landing after watching 33 mins of this and 5 practice goes myself. Once you get the velocity vector in the E bracket with trim at the right speed, you're basically just on throttle and roll controls then. Feels great getting those throttle adjustments going well to keep the vector on the runway.
God the comment about getting blinded in bed got me laughing like a maniac in bed, since i barely landed on a carrier after work, and went to you to check out the proper e-bracket management for 18(got it down on 16, but carriers are a whole new shebang) so im watchibg it in pitch black in bed and i was literally thinking, shit, thats bright as hell! And here you go, second later starting to tell this line. Love, spuds, for all you do. Most of my learning in dcs came from your videos, literally a go to mentor when it comes to something i cant figure out or learning anew. Just thank you. So much, genuenly. You are great at what you do, and i think most if not all of people who will read this to the end think the same. Lets make it a Spud appreciation thread!
Dude. Ive watched most of other vídeos on the Hornet from ALL the big dcs UA-camrs and most of them are good, but you are on another level. That was really amazing and detailed explanations. Thanks, that helped a lot.
I know this is for DCS but just a few comments from my former life....#1 rule coming into the break over the boat is to look cool and having your speedbrake out ruins that effect. 350 is pretty weak sauce as well, especially with the extension upwind. For the upgrade for the Sh*t H*t break you gotta come in at 450+, break no later than the bow with a good hard inital pull to bleed off some speed. Maybe a bit of burner at the break if you really want to show off, then throttle idle. You will still be well above max gear speed so gear/flaps stay up. Ease the pull at 90 degrees through to make sure your abeam distance isn't too short but keep wings near 90 with a little top rudder to give the illusion you are still in the pull. (remember Rule #1) Wait a potato or two then hard pull again to get the right abeam distance on your downwind and bleed off more speed. 1.1nm was about right for me. Fly the downwind to hit your correct turn point to start the turn to final. Your fast still but hit gear speed about halfway through the turn still at idle and gear/flaps go down. Catch on-speed with power just as you are rolling into the groove and fly it on in for that OK-3 with the Sh*t H*t break. Then it is time to hit the dirty shirt wardroom for a slider and some dog.
Spud, you did a great job. I am not having really any trouble landing anymore but I just started with the F18 so I thought I would watch a more experienced pilot. Damn good video, thank you!
Great video, new player and new to sims. I've been ballooning like crazy and not understanding what I was doing wrong after watching tutorials and spent 2 hours trying to land correctly. Was driving me nuts to end up at 1000ft. Can't wait to try this.
Wish I would have come across this earlier!! What you explained about ballooning on downwind was my first issue I was having with landing. It took me over a month of watching pilots and tutorials and reading guides before I resolved that issue with MUCH trial and error. The downwind break to final I often refer to as the "WTF Zone" as I still struggle lining up for final. I am stoked to get home and put this into practice!! Thank you, so much, for this tutorial!
I’ve been struggling with this. This is very helpful! The in sim training is helpful, but requires a little too much knowledge to be super effective. Great examples.
Hey I wanted to drop by and say I watched this last night and then hopped into some landing practice (as a very new pilot), and my first two landings felt very iffy, you could feel that the undercarriage hated me, but the next two were butter and I really chalk that up to what I learned here. Thanks so much man!
Great vid! It's always good to go over the fundamentals from time to time. Seems like every time I start having an issue with my flying I've forgotten a primary flight rule or bit if knowledge that I've just thrown in the back of my mind somewhere.
Hi, as i'm not new to DCS this video is very useful for me too, because of one important thing i didn't know or din't realize.I'm one of those guys who did step by step throttle idle, brake out etc. and after 180 degree turn i was above 800 feet almost everytime.So that note some things must be made simultaneously help me a lot. Thanks Spud :)
Nice video. Just a suggestion, and I know you like the sun low because it's pretty, but maybe have it a little higher in the sky when making these videos so we can see the HUD a little better. It helps to see where you are and what you are doing. But again great vid.
This really helped my understanding for on-speed AOA and throttle control. I presume for straight in approach you use the same technique, but release landing gear and flaps sooner and then use throttle control for the remaining distance to runway.
Hi Spud, great video, but I seem to recall being told by a real world fast jet guy once (not a pilot myself) that you never move lift devices (such as flaps) in a bank, especially not at low level such as the turn onto downwind. I seem to remember him saying that this was something to do with increased risk of loss of control when changing the aerodynamic characteristics of the wings while there's asymmetric lift from them. I seem to recall him telling me they used to drop the first stage of flaps just before starting the turn to final, they'd then wait till they rolled out on final to drop down to landing flap, the wait being specifically to avoid moving the flaps in the bank. It was a number of years ago now, and I as I say, I'm not a pilot, so I may have misunderstood, or misremembered something, but just what I'd heard.
Another good video on the topic. Ive practiced this alot, so nowadays I finally consider myself a veteran Hornet lander. Still I loved the academic insight you provided here. You might have pointed out my following «broken down» tip in the video already, so if you did, please accept my apology in advance. Well here it is. If you manage to pull the correct amount of Gs in the first turn, you will more than often end up in the ballpark of 250 knots halfway through that first turn. 250 knots is a good (if not the schoolbook?) speedmarker for flaps/gear down. So in my head I do what I can to keep the numbers right from the getgo in this basic sequence. Upwind 350 knots, 800 agl. First turn - 3,5 g pull. Easing of pull gradually (As you mention) 250 kts - flaps/gear down. Done. Little to no ballooning. Downwind/base leg is another subject.
Nice info and video demo - explains some important facts of aerodynamics that I failed to consider. Thank for your work, I've been lost tring to figure out what I've been doing wrong.
I'm in trial of the F-14B. I own A-10C, Su-33, Mig 29, BlackShark2, UH-1H....... out of all aircraft, the landing of the F-14B is fantastic, even despite my severely fatigued and twitchy Logitech Extreme 3D Pro stick. The twist axis in those sticks lasts about 2 months. I think I'm hooked by the F-14, so to speak :) Beautiful response like the difference between 16-bit and 64-bit. I'd flown quite a bit in a 2-seater Cessna with a coworker, who'd hand over the controls for approach...... two handicaps were rudder pedals and lining up from a few miles out...... for some reason---I think it might be way over-controlling is the problem---lining up is a nightmare to grasp. That's what brought me to this video...... despite the fact I've got 40 years as a draftsman/technical illustrator, making my living off parallels and perpendiculars, getting the plane on center and keeping it there needs lotta work :) Probably revealing idiocy here, but I (think) the plane gains altitude faster in a banking climb, rather than just pulling stick straight back wings level.....? The segment on turning 90 with flaps and gear down prompted that, when you discussed ballooning issues. Sorry for the flooding stream of thought, but before I understood what flaps actually achieve, I'd expected them to act like elevators. I worked in a foreign car parts store situated such that the glass front was directly on line with planes landing at BWI (Baltimore)........ when I'd see the flaps down I wondered how it wasn't driving the nose DOWN. Flaps control in various situations can be pretty sketchy....... keymapped "F" and Shift-F, I find I have to check flaps with the F2 view....... I mean at speeds well below the threshold. Bugs come and go I guess :) GREAT help here, Spudknocker. I'm gathering that in landing operations, you're flying MUCH more by throttle than stick....... makes sense.
Crumpooz we play DCS not because it is easy but because it is hard! Haha once you know the aerodynamics behind what is happening here it can make getting to on speed aoa much much easier so sometimes some academic background on things can really help
@@Spudknocker Absolutely right. My reply also was no offence at all. It was just funny to see the title. 😆 Kind of funny I never ever, from the very beginning, had a problem getting on speed AoA. I wanted to write my two cents on how I do it, but it´s basically exactly the way you showed it. One thing though: I never touch the pitch while landing. It´s all done with the throttle. I even don´t mind the airspeed at all. Other than that, i appreciate your videos! Keep ´em coming. Best DCS-UA-camr i know! 🤘🤘🤘
@@ramirras that's a joke right? the tomcat is the best long range naval interceptor in the world, and was only retired due to lack of real comparable nation state enemies. The super tomcat would've been even better
@@poiu477 The F-14 was a piece of crap. Yes, it looked great on paper and has a few decent engagements but it was a maintenance nightmare and had all kinds of performance issues. The only reason it was even formidable during its tenure was because there was a real gap in tech development at that time. As soon as that picked back up, the Tomcat was virtually obsolete. Pit it against most 4th generation fighters in real life and it typically loses. The Phoenix missile was trash too. Most of the time, they would simply come off the rails and fall into the ocean. Don't take my word for it, look it up. That plane was only great on paper.
How can you have a vertical lift when you are banking to the left? What parts of plane or what surfeses are generating lift vertically and not towars a lift vector?
So, what speed is one doing on the upwind leg? Air brake, flaps down, gear down, and throttle to idle in the bank seems like A LOT of slowing before even hitting the downwind leg. Feel like I am coming in shallow already
Thanks for this great informational video! This really helps...can't wait to go practice some more. Question - do F18 pilots in real life have a "trim reset" button? Is there a trim reset command in DCS? Just to get everything neutral quickly...or at least a reference somewhere to look and see how much positive or neutral trim is currently applied? Thanks again! Looking forward to multiplayer (it's only been....a decade LOL)
Yes. On the left side behind the throttles, there's a button that automatically sets the trim to takeoff trim, which is 12 degrees nose-up. From there you can trim down to zero. Don't know why you'd wanna do so, though. Now the trim display is on the FCS page (MENU (TIME digits when in the air)2x > SUPT > FCS (bottom right on the page). That's the page he has open on the right DDI. You'll see the line that says something like: T12 STAB T12
I found that it's way easier to land Hornet if I don't touch the trim, and just use pitch instead. So I fly as usual, give myself a long long downwind, drop flaps, gear and whatnot, make a base and final turn, miss runway, correct too much, correct again, then I use stick to maintain 3 degrees slope and speed around 140 (depends on weight). That's it, I maintain on speed AOA by the stick and throttle no problem. I tried trimming on speed, lost too many nerves trying to do that, so I tried not to use trim and it works way better than I expected. I assume that stick have way higher quantization than trim, meaning I can set required pitch angle with way higher precision and change it way faster, than if I use trim. Fatique and weight (why ever trim was invented) is not a problem here, cause we obviously don't have weight on stick anyway and fatique is not a problem, cause I need to maintain desired angle of stick for a couple of minutes only. Yes, I do literally opposite to all landing guides, which tells me "do not touch the stick and use trim", but what I can do, if my method works and trim is not.
So all you need to do is hold your stick in position once you pitch to the correct alpha, and then apply trim. You will find that you will have to slowly relax pressure on the stick as your trim gets where it needs to be. From there, you can fly your approach hands-off. This is how you trim in the real airplane (any airplane, the Hornet included). It’s a lot easier irl because you can feel the pressure on your stick, so you just keep your hand still and apply trim until there is no more pressure on your hand. The reason instructors beat the habit and tendency to hand fly approaches out of their students (to the point where you will fail the flight training program if you don’t fix this - it’s very serious!) is because you lose precision and repeatability, which has an effect on the safety of the flight, the aircraft, and the carrier (or airfield). Get used to using the trim, and you’ll find that your landings are very consistent, and almost always “perfect”.
@@adilasif1516 Well I'll try again then. Thing is, F/A-18 trim is strange. Like, in F-14 I have no issues with trimming, I see that trim do what trim should do. In F/A-18 I literally have no idea is trim even do anything. I can't even get the right direction, cause I don't feel that trim do anything.
@@eoffsock The easiest way to watch how you trim works in the hornet is to keep the nose of the aircraft on the horizon line, keep the indicator on the nose level with it, as it represents your wings, and the horizon. it should pretty much be a straight line all the way across barring the circle. if its' down a mm or up a mm that's okay you can still see the separation between the two lines are equal. If you hit the trim wing down once, you'll see it slowly start banking and becoming unlevel on the indicator. If you hold the trim it will do it quickly. same with your vertical.. a lot of people fly with the trim set down a hair in level flight to keep a bit of pressure on thes stick for control purposes but you won't notice the vertical as much as the horizontal. but you will see it pitch on the horizon line. For landing, just keep it at 140 the entire time after your initial break, and all the way onto the runway. that will never change. so just keep an eye on that and give it throttle back and forth. the only other thing you need to do is get the nose in the middle of the bracket, once you're there the trim is done. just add or take away throttle. You can practice that just flying level same as you would when you're normally trimming your aircraft until you get it down.
Starts break at 770, balloons to 970. Goes to show even someone as good at this will still balloon. Very difficult to maintain a level turn in the game during landing ops. In Wag's video of the VFR airport landing, after the break and roll out downwind, he descends to 600ft AGL, and I noticed you maintained 800ft. Wonder which one is preferred? Seems going to 600ft would be more beneficial, and a better transfer of skills to the carrier landing. Dunno. Great video, I very much enjoyed it.
triscadec because you can’t feel the acceleration of the aircraft in DCS it makes it much harder than in the real thing which is why it’s so difficult to do it perfectly in the sim!
Something is up with your speedbrake, as it should automatically retract with flaps and gear down. FLCS/ carrier landing is done with the speed brake retracted during the downwind leg.
Experienced flight simmer here coming from MSFS: Never felt so imcompetent especially after reading the comments. Still unable after countless attempts.
I heard in an interview with a bug pilot that if you hold nose up trim throughout the duration of the break (nose up trim on break, let off when leveled for downwind leg) it puts you close to perfectly trimmed for “on speed” flight. This works pretty well in DCS.
In the real airplane, it should be exactly 2 seconds of trim. Also, the real plane shows you what AOA you're trimmed for in the HUD, according to basically every pilot. No idea why ED left that out.
Une fois que l'avion a pu atterir, dans la réalité il y a il me semble commane pour trimer le F18 pour la bonne position de décollage, dans DCS c'est pas le cas non ?
You're correct. Speed brake should not be out during landing config while in the hornet. F14 and F16 it should be for the finer throttle response at higher rpm. Also, I think in the F18 when it's dirty you have to keep the air brake button held down because it auto retracts while dirty.
The video is showing how people who are having trouble with this concept can be helped with the airbrake. I also talk about this concept and explain that it isn’t realistic to fly the pattern with the airbrake out. I also explain and show the difference and explain why one is harder than the other. And while you don’t want to float down the runway you also don’t want to smash the jet on the runway every time at -800 FPM on the VSI like I see a lot of pilots in DCS do
@@Spudknocker That is great and all, but is it really better to teach something that is not entirely accurate, just because it's harder? 250 for flaps and gear and a correctly executed turn combined with the correct use of the throttle counters the ballooning effect 100% of the times.
@@Spudknocker As I understand from information obtained from a Marine pilot... you are looking to land the Hornet between -600 and -800 FPM. Also I use the speed brake only on the initial break, at 90 degrees my gear and flaps are down as I hit the downwind I am thumbing in trim to get on speed and descending to 600' Just my 2 cents
Thanks for the vid, Spudknocker. Are you pumping the brakes upon landing? With anti-skid available you're supposed to make one smooth application down to taxi speed. Just something I observed and wondered about...
You brought up in the beginning of the tutorial equaling out your G's to your speed on initial break. Stating 3.5 because of entry speed. However I don't see you even getting close to that. 2.4 I believe was your max. That being said can you clear that up for us? Do you... A. Do you hold your 3.5g throughout the entire initial break until 150 kts? or B. Try and match the G's as the speed drops... IE: Bank---- [350] ->3.5g | 300 ->3.0g | 250 ->2.5g | 200 ->2.0g | [150] ->1.5g ------>level out Flaps/ Gear / Trim Much appreciated. Also, on a side question unrelated, do you slightly trim nose down during flight. I've read a lot of guys do this for the stick back pressure for precision for formation and refueling..
I've managed to land F-15 after a few tries. The gears on that thing feels like thin glass. On a side note I only play with keyboard and mouse because I'm cheap.
I decided to buy DCS on Steam (VR reason) after watching your video. Congrats by the way. I'm facing some problems: MSFS works fine in my machine but I'm having dual eyes view per lens in my Pimax 5K+ when using OpenXR. I've tried everything possible (to my knowledge) to fix, but I can't get rid of this issue. I'm loaded to the left of the aircraft (fixed with re-center VR) but with this dual view per eye. I've got a fast machine (i7, 128 Gb RAM, all Samsung Evo Pro SSD, RTX 2080 Ti). I followed your video instructions to improve PC performance (improved MSFS), but my DCS... I also have HAG disabled. Parallel projections on and off. I don't really know what else I can do. Can you help me out, please? Thanks
It's a great tutorial. But I do have one question: Why would you choose the time of day in which you are flying DIRECTLY into the sun to demonstrate something that requires we keep our eyes on the numbers and symbology on the HUD, which is almost impossible to see? I understand that sometimes, you will be flying into the sun, but the video is almost useless, because I cannot make out the readings on your HUD. Can you do it again and put the sun directly overhead?
Are you leaving the speed brake extended throughout? I've heard that deploying gear/flaps will retract it so assuming brake has to be extended after that. It looks like leading edge flaps adjust themselves but in my poor approaches the TEF also seem to move, which I don't think is helping me a bit.
I've watched this descent so many times and every time i attempt the manouevre, i end up completely on the other side of the runway as i'm coming into land :( how on earth does he come in precisely on the centreline? i swear i'm doing everything correctly
So when your plane is in the region of reverse command, I know that you use the throttle to control altitude. How about when you ar3 too slow or too fast? In a general aviation plane like a Cessna 172, whenever your aircraft is on final and in the region of reverse command, if you get too slow, you push forward on the yoke to pitch down, and if you get too fast you pull back on the yoke to you pitch up and if you are too high you reduce throttle and if you get too low, you increase throttle. However in Wags video he said that you never use forward or back stick during final and you only use throttle and left and right stick. So in fighter aircraft when in the region of reverse command, do you use throttle to speed and altitude or just like GA aircraft, do you use throttle to control altitude and pitch to control speed?
I started practicing this, as I'm new to dcs; great training! BUT... I noticed my speedbrake keeps retracting during the break! I can't figure out why? It's fully extended, I pull Gs, drop the gear and flaps; but when i roll out, I'm fast because the brake retracted. Any idea why the speedbrake keeps retracting during the break? (and no, I'm not accidentally hitting retract button)
One other thing, I look at my FCS page to help me gauge the right trim to hold AoA (about 9% stab). But, I am unable to gauge it correctly while still in the bank, which leads to chronically too much OR too little trim for AoA on rollout heading. Any tips with either?
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Hey guys! This video should help you avoid that ballooning effect that a lot of DCS World pilots experience as they put their flaps down on the downwind and then try to get to on speed AoA!
As Always if you liked the video and want to help support the channel to keep the missions and content coming head over to my patreon! www.patreon.com/Spudknocker
Amazing
Thanks Spud for the education on landing on runway and maintaining aoa. i'm really new to dcs and lov'in it bought a few things. 50yr old who says you cant teach old dogs new tricks. i've got to get more education on multiplayer. they need to get more radio operations atc etc thanks Pistol4570
You, sir! Are a life saver. I was having a habit of ballooning after the the first turn, then ending up in oscillations trying to trim, correct speed, and drop altitude before heading into the last turn. Thank you!
Yo Spud! 🥔 I tried it your way last night and landed nicely 5x in a row! Normally it’s ramp strike after ramp strike for me. Thanks! Keep up the videos! This is the first time that I actually PREFER the upwind and downwind leg patterns. They are necessary. At first I thought “really? They really do this? Sounds like a waste of time when you can just go straight in.”
Nicely done. Thank you.
Great video to help those struggling.
The way I learned which works to counteract ballooning:
1. 250 gear down
2. 225 flaps half
3. 200 flaps full
Thanks for the tip. Has helped greatly.
Same stuck to this for a whileb
👍 Thanks!
I just tried idle power, fly level till speed down to about 170 kts. Then adjust AoA with E bracket- vel vector trim.
Well I will certainly be damned! I went from not understanding this throttle/AOA/trim thing to being able to pull off a really great pattern landing after watching 33 mins of this and 5 practice goes myself. Once you get the velocity vector in the E bracket with trim at the right speed, you're basically just on throttle and roll controls then. Feels great getting those throttle adjustments going well to keep the vector on the runway.
God the comment about getting blinded in bed got me laughing like a maniac in bed, since i barely landed on a carrier after work, and went to you to check out the proper e-bracket management for 18(got it down on 16, but carriers are a whole new shebang) so im watchibg it in pitch black in bed and i was literally thinking, shit, thats bright as hell! And here you go, second later starting to tell this line. Love, spuds, for all you do. Most of my learning in dcs came from your videos, literally a go to mentor when it comes to something i cant figure out or learning anew. Just thank you. So much, genuenly.
You are great at what you do, and i think most if not all of people who will read this to the end think the same. Lets make it a Spud appreciation thread!
Dude. Ive watched most of other vídeos on the Hornet from ALL the big dcs UA-camrs and most of them are good, but you are on another level.
That was really amazing and detailed explanations. Thanks, that helped a lot.
Glad to hear that dude!
I know this is for DCS but just a few comments from my former life....#1 rule coming into the break over the boat is to look cool and having your speedbrake out ruins that effect. 350 is pretty weak sauce as well, especially with the extension upwind. For the upgrade for the Sh*t H*t break you gotta come in at 450+, break no later than the bow with a good hard inital pull to bleed off some speed. Maybe a bit of burner at the break if you really want to show off, then throttle idle. You will still be well above max gear speed so gear/flaps stay up. Ease the pull at 90 degrees through to make sure your abeam distance isn't too short but keep wings near 90 with a little top rudder to give the illusion you are still in the pull. (remember Rule #1) Wait a potato or two then hard pull again to get the right abeam distance on your downwind and bleed off more speed. 1.1nm was about right for me. Fly the downwind to hit your correct turn point to start the turn to final. Your fast still but hit gear speed about halfway through the turn still at idle and gear/flaps go down. Catch on-speed with power just as you are rolling into the groove and fly it on in for that OK-3 with the Sh*t H*t break. Then it is time to hit the dirty shirt wardroom for a slider and some dog.
Spud, you did a great job. I am not having really any trouble landing anymore but I just started with the F18 so I thought I would watch a more experienced pilot. Damn good video, thank you!
Great video, new player and new to sims. I've been ballooning like crazy and not understanding what I was doing wrong after watching tutorials and spent 2 hours trying to land correctly. Was driving me nuts to end up at 1000ft. Can't wait to try this.
Wish I would have come across this earlier!! What you explained about ballooning on downwind was my first issue I was having with landing. It took me over a month of watching pilots and tutorials and reading guides before I resolved that issue with MUCH trial and error. The downwind break to final I often refer to as the "WTF Zone" as I still struggle lining up for final. I am stoked to get home and put this into practice!! Thank you, so much, for this tutorial!
This is one of the best videos I have seen. Addressed all of the issues I was experiencing with AOA, very clearly. Great job!
wow this is the absolute best video I've come across on landing/AoA in DCS. Can't wait to try these principles out on the hornet and Tomcat!
I’ve been struggling with this. This is very helpful! The in sim training is helpful, but requires a little too much knowledge to be super effective. Great examples.
Hey I wanted to drop by and say I watched this last night and then hopped into some landing practice (as a very new pilot), and my first two landings felt very iffy, you could feel that the undercarriage hated me, but the next two were butter and I really chalk that up to what I learned here. Thanks so much man!
Awesome man glad it helped!
Great vid! It's always good to go over the fundamentals from time to time. Seems like every time I start having an issue with my flying I've forgotten a primary flight rule or bit if knowledge that I've just thrown in the back of my mind somewhere.
This translated really well even when flying the f14 - I'd never looked at it as trimming the aircraft to the On Speed AoA, thank you!
This will be really useful for new pilots!
I sure hope so!
I agree, helped me understanding the Theory much better. Now it‘s just a matter of practice (and yes i am pretty new to DCS)
begu88 This is by far the best video for help concerning on speed AoA. When I started it took me a long time to figure out how to stay on speed
@@eclipticsim seems like it yes, for others it's second nature but Spud did a nice job of explaining it in Detail
Hi, as i'm not new to DCS this video is very useful for me too, because of one important thing i didn't know or din't realize.I'm one of those guys who did step by step throttle idle, brake out etc. and after 180 degree turn i was above 800 feet almost everytime.So that note some things must be made simultaneously help me a lot. Thanks Spud :)
Nice video. Just a suggestion, and I know you like the sun low because it's pretty, but maybe have it a little higher in the sky when making these videos so we can see the HUD a little better. It helps to see where you are and what you are doing. But again great vid.
OL' SPUDDY is on-station, delivering knowledge bombs.
Bombs away!
This really helped my understanding for on-speed AOA and throttle control. I presume for straight in approach you use the same technique, but release landing gear and flaps sooner and then use throttle control for the remaining distance to runway.
yep. pretty much as soon as you get to 250knt you can drop the gear and flaps.
Hi Spud, great video, but I seem to recall being told by a real world fast jet guy once (not a pilot myself) that you never move lift devices (such as flaps) in a bank, especially not at low level such as the turn onto downwind. I seem to remember him saying that this was something to do with increased risk of loss of control when changing the aerodynamic characteristics of the wings while there's asymmetric lift from them. I seem to recall him telling me they used to drop the first stage of flaps just before starting the turn to final, they'd then wait till they rolled out on final to drop down to landing flap, the wait being specifically to avoid moving the flaps in the bank.
It was a number of years ago now, and I as I say, I'm not a pilot, so I may have misunderstood, or misremembered something, but just what I'd heard.
I thing it does make sense. If you have asymmetric failure and only one flap moves out, it can get nasty.
Perhaps you heard this from a WWII Pilot? :D
Another good video on the topic. Ive practiced this alot, so nowadays I finally consider myself a veteran Hornet lander. Still I loved the academic insight you provided here. You might have pointed out my following «broken down» tip in the video already, so if you did, please accept my apology in advance. Well here it is. If you manage to pull the correct amount of Gs in the first turn, you will more than often end up in the ballpark of 250 knots halfway through that first turn. 250 knots is a good (if not the schoolbook?) speedmarker for flaps/gear down. So in my head I do what I can to keep the numbers right from the getgo in this basic sequence. Upwind 350 knots, 800 agl. First turn - 3,5 g pull. Easing of pull gradually (As you mention) 250 kts - flaps/gear down. Done. Little to no ballooning. Downwind/base leg is another subject.
I've never used the speed brake when landing. But this was great to know. Have to try and copy your landing and see how it goes.
I am extremely new to DCS, these videos are a massive help. Thanks
Welcome to Low Gun Gentlemen. Where you come in at the bottom of the pile and leave at the top! Great video this is something I do struggle with.
Nice info and video demo - explains some important facts of aerodynamics that I failed to consider.
Thank for your work, I've been lost tring to figure out what I've been doing wrong.
wow after months off frustration with the hornet i´m finally able to do a case 1 recovery thank you so much
Excellent video Spud, thanks always had major problems with ballooning, will give this a try and also the speed brake 👍👍, keep up the great content!
Thanks, Spud. Very well done end spoken through. Thank you, sir!
I'm in trial of the F-14B. I own A-10C, Su-33, Mig 29, BlackShark2, UH-1H....... out of all aircraft, the landing of the F-14B is fantastic, even despite my severely fatigued and twitchy Logitech Extreme 3D Pro stick. The twist axis in those sticks lasts about 2 months. I think I'm hooked by the F-14, so to speak :) Beautiful response like the difference between 16-bit and 64-bit.
I'd flown quite a bit in a 2-seater Cessna with a coworker, who'd hand over the controls for approach...... two handicaps were rudder pedals and lining up from a few miles out...... for some reason---I think it might be way over-controlling is the problem---lining up is a nightmare to grasp. That's what brought me to this video...... despite the fact I've got 40 years as a draftsman/technical illustrator, making my living off parallels and perpendiculars, getting the plane on center and keeping it there needs lotta work :)
Probably revealing idiocy here, but I (think) the plane gains altitude faster in a banking climb, rather than just pulling stick straight back wings level.....? The segment on turning 90 with flaps and gear down prompted that, when you discussed ballooning issues.
Sorry for the flooding stream of thought, but before I understood what flaps actually achieve, I'd expected them to act like elevators. I worked in a foreign car parts store situated such that the glass front was directly on line with planes landing at BWI (Baltimore)........ when I'd see the flaps down I wondered how it wasn't driving the nose DOWN. Flaps control in various situations can be pretty sketchy....... keymapped "F" and Shift-F, I find I have to check flaps with the F2 view....... I mean at speeds well below the threshold. Bugs come and go I guess :)
GREAT help here, Spudknocker. I'm gathering that in landing operations, you're flying MUCH more by throttle than stick....... makes sense.
Good video Spud!
Kid Vicious thanks man!
This will definitely help thx spud! I have the worst time getting that thing in the thing. This makes it worth practicing now.
Thanks, I needed this vid very much as I'm new to DCS and the F-18C
“It doesn’t matter who you are, where you come from. The ability to triumph begins with you. Always.”
On Speed AoA made easy.
Posts a 43 minute long Video. 😂😂😂
Crumpooz we play DCS not because it is easy but because it is hard! Haha once you know the aerodynamics behind what is happening here it can make getting to on speed aoa much much easier so sometimes some academic background on things can really help
@@Spudknocker Absolutely right.
My reply also was no offence at all. It was just funny to see the title. 😆
Kind of funny I never ever, from the very beginning, had a problem getting on speed AoA.
I wanted to write my two cents on how I do it, but it´s basically exactly the way you showed it.
One thing though: I never touch the pitch while landing. It´s all done with the throttle. I even don´t mind the airspeed at all.
Other than that, i appreciate your videos! Keep ´em coming. Best DCS-UA-camr i know! 🤘🤘🤘
I had the exact saame reaction. This said, I like his videos.
@@PappyGunn Ditto, a year later!
How to fly the Hornet 101, by Jelmer
Step one: Don't buy the F/A-18, but buy the F-14 Tomcat. ;D
Jokes aside, great video Spud!
JelmerS Hahahaha I agree with this rule! Big Cats are better than Bugs haha
F-14 is pretty big it was a garbage plane in real life. 💯😂😂😂
@@ramirras that's a joke right? the tomcat is the best long range naval interceptor in the world, and was only retired due to lack of real comparable nation state enemies. The super tomcat would've been even better
@@poiu477 The F-14 was a piece of crap. Yes, it looked great on paper and has a few decent engagements but it was a maintenance nightmare and had all kinds of performance issues. The only reason it was even formidable during its tenure was because there was a real gap in tech development at that time. As soon as that picked back up, the Tomcat was virtually obsolete. Pit it against most 4th generation fighters in real life and it typically loses. The Phoenix missile was trash too. Most of the time, they would simply come off the rails and fall into the ocean. Don't take my word for it, look it up. That plane was only great on paper.
@@ramirras you're fking high lmao
It sure will be nice when DCS finally looks this good in VR. Maybe some day.
It does u just need money
Can't keep the airbrake extended with flaps and gear down and no wow? How do you do that? Great video.
Thank you I needed this.
Thank for this video. So many interesting elements. Aviation does not work without theory :-)
Lol at the intro music.
"Mom can we have TopGun Anthem?"
"We have TopGun Anthem at home."
>TopGun Anthem at home.
Great video with very good explanations :)
Thank you so much :)
Fantastic video!
What an amazing video. Thank you.
Another great Spud tutorial.
Thanks, great demo!
Just a quick question. Where to you see the AGL? Was looking all over during the video and couldn't see it.
How did you know that I am watching this in a dark room?
Are you spying on me? XD
CCusack12 hahaha yes!
@@Spudknocker Hm.
I'll allow it. 😜
How can you have a vertical lift when you are banking to the left? What parts of plane or what surfeses are generating lift vertically and not towars a lift vector?
Why do the pitch trim settings on the red controls display box only display after the gear is down?
So, what speed is one doing on the upwind leg? Air brake, flaps down, gear down, and throttle to idle in the bank seems like A LOT of slowing before even hitting the downwind leg. Feel like I am coming in shallow already
I think I've just been using some forward stick to avoid ballooning. Then, as it slows, I let it off and slowly increase throttle.
That works too!
Hot damn! I finally managed to get this thing popping. Very good video!
"...Our Lord and saviour Mr. Matt Wagner or Wags" I so very feel that
thanks man i flyed in the hornet for 3 months now and i was why it ballooning ? that's why great video
AAR please😬
Thanks for this great informational video! This really helps...can't wait to go practice some more. Question - do F18 pilots in real life have a "trim reset" button? Is there a trim reset command in DCS? Just to get everything neutral quickly...or at least a reference somewhere to look and see how much positive or neutral trim is currently applied? Thanks again! Looking forward to multiplayer (it's only been....a decade LOL)
Yes. On the left side behind the throttles, there's a button that automatically sets the trim to takeoff trim, which is 12 degrees nose-up. From there you can trim down to zero. Don't know why you'd wanna do so, though. Now the trim display is on the FCS page (MENU (TIME digits when in the air)2x > SUPT > FCS (bottom right on the page). That's the page he has open on the right DDI. You'll see the line that says something like:
T12 STAB T12
I would Love to spend some time with you, going through all of this A/G and BFA A/A, its time I start learning how to Fight this Jet
I found that it's way easier to land Hornet if I don't touch the trim, and just use pitch instead. So I fly as usual, give myself a long long downwind, drop flaps, gear and whatnot, make a base and final turn, miss runway, correct too much, correct again, then I use stick to maintain 3 degrees slope and speed around 140 (depends on weight). That's it, I maintain on speed AOA by the stick and throttle no problem.
I tried trimming on speed, lost too many nerves trying to do that, so I tried not to use trim and it works way better than I expected. I assume that stick have way higher quantization than trim, meaning I can set required pitch angle with way higher precision and change it way faster, than if I use trim. Fatique and weight (why ever trim was invented) is not a problem here, cause we obviously don't have weight on stick anyway and fatique is not a problem, cause I need to maintain desired angle of stick for a couple of minutes only.
Yes, I do literally opposite to all landing guides, which tells me "do not touch the stick and use trim", but what I can do, if my method works and trim is not.
So all you need to do is hold your stick in position once you pitch to the correct alpha, and then apply trim. You will find that you will have to slowly relax pressure on the stick as your trim gets where it needs to be. From there, you can fly your approach hands-off.
This is how you trim in the real airplane (any airplane, the Hornet included). It’s a lot easier irl because you can feel the pressure on your stick, so you just keep your hand still and apply trim until there is no more pressure on your hand.
The reason instructors beat the habit and tendency to hand fly approaches out of their students (to the point where you will fail the flight training program if you don’t fix this - it’s very serious!) is because you lose precision and repeatability, which has an effect on the safety of the flight, the aircraft, and the carrier (or airfield). Get used to using the trim, and you’ll find that your landings are very consistent, and almost always “perfect”.
@@adilasif1516 Well I'll try again then.
Thing is, F/A-18 trim is strange. Like, in F-14 I have no issues with trimming, I see that trim do what trim should do. In F/A-18 I literally have no idea is trim even do anything. I can't even get the right direction, cause I don't feel that trim do anything.
@@eoffsock The easiest way to watch how you trim works in the hornet is to keep the nose of the aircraft on the horizon line, keep the indicator on the nose level with it, as it represents your wings, and the horizon. it should pretty much be a straight line all the way across barring the circle. if its' down a mm or up a mm that's okay you can still see the separation between the two lines are equal. If you hit the trim wing down once, you'll see it slowly start banking and becoming unlevel on the indicator. If you hold the trim it will do it quickly. same with your vertical.. a lot of people fly with the trim set down a hair in level flight to keep a bit of pressure on thes stick for control purposes but you won't notice the vertical as much as the horizontal. but you will see it pitch on the horizon line.
For landing, just keep it at 140 the entire time after your initial break, and all the way onto the runway. that will never change. so just keep an eye on that and give it throttle back and forth. the only other thing you need to do is get the nose in the middle of the bracket, once you're there the trim is done. just add or take away throttle. You can practice that just flying level same as you would when you're normally trimming your aircraft until you get it down.
Starts break at 770, balloons to 970. Goes to show even someone as good at this will still balloon. Very difficult to maintain a level turn in the game during landing ops. In Wag's video of the VFR airport landing, after the break and roll out downwind, he descends to 600ft AGL, and I noticed you maintained 800ft. Wonder which one is preferred? Seems going to 600ft would be more beneficial, and a better transfer of skills to the carrier landing. Dunno. Great video, I very much enjoyed it.
triscadec because you can’t feel the acceleration of the aircraft in DCS it makes it much harder than in the real thing which is why it’s so difficult to do it perfectly in the sim!
Something is up with your speedbrake, as it should automatically retract with flaps and gear down. FLCS/ carrier landing is done with the speed brake retracted during the downwind leg.
Pop the speed brake along with flaps and gear to avoid ballooning up. Suck bak the brake around 160 kts
Could you explamin how you even got your left DDI like that?
excellent video
Great video, thanks!
Experienced flight simmer here coming from MSFS: Never felt so imcompetent especially after reading the comments. Still unable after countless attempts.
I heard in an interview with a bug pilot that if you hold nose up trim throughout the duration of the break (nose up trim on break, let off when leveled for downwind leg) it puts you close to perfectly trimmed for “on speed” flight. This works pretty well in DCS.
In the real airplane, it should be exactly 2 seconds of trim. Also, the real plane shows you what AOA you're trimmed for in the HUD, according to basically every pilot. No idea why ED left that out.
@@agostonbazmajer1100 Maybe it's a C vs. E model thing?
So question....assuming you were following faa rules would you still do the break at 350 or would you do it at 250?
Une fois que l'avion a pu atterir, dans la réalité il y a il me semble commane pour trimer le F18 pour la bonne position de décollage, dans DCS c'est pas le cas non ?
I disagree with having the speed brake out the entire time. And lastly, the Hornet is a Naval Aircraft. You don't "float" it down the runway.
You're correct. Speed brake should not be out during landing config while in the hornet. F14 and F16 it should be for the finer throttle response at higher rpm. Also, I think in the F18 when it's dirty you have to keep the air brake button held down because it auto retracts while dirty.
The video is showing how people who are having trouble with this concept can be helped with the airbrake. I also talk about this concept and explain that it isn’t realistic to fly the pattern with the airbrake out. I also explain and show the difference and explain why one is harder than the other. And while you don’t want to float down the runway you also don’t want to smash the jet on the runway every time at -800 FPM on the VSI like I see a lot of pilots in DCS do
@@Spudknocker That is great and all, but is it really better to teach something that is not entirely accurate, just because it's harder? 250 for flaps and gear and a correctly executed turn combined with the correct use of the throttle counters the ballooning effect 100% of the times.
@@Spudknocker that's cool but it would be good to explain to newcomers that it is designed to be landed at the AOA rate and angle and not "floated".
@@Spudknocker As I understand from information obtained from a Marine pilot... you are looking to land the Hornet between -600 and -800 FPM. Also I use the speed brake only on the initial break, at 90 degrees my gear and flaps are down as I hit the downwind I am thumbing in trim to get on speed and descending to 600' Just my 2 cents
Hey thanks ! that helped a lot!!
wally pee awesome man that’s the goal!
How do You keep speed brake extended?? AS soon as I drop the flaps it retracts and wont stay out .....................................
Thanks for the vid, Spudknocker. Are you pumping the brakes upon landing? With anti-skid available you're supposed to make one smooth application down to taxi speed. Just something I observed and wondered about...
You brought up in the beginning of the tutorial equaling out your G's to your speed on initial break. Stating 3.5 because of entry speed. However I don't see you even getting close to that. 2.4 I believe was your max. That being said can you clear that up for us?
Do you...
A. Do you hold your 3.5g throughout the entire initial break until 150 kts?
or
B. Try and match the G's as the speed drops... IE: Bank---- [350] ->3.5g | 300 ->3.0g | 250 ->2.5g | 200 ->2.0g | [150] ->1.5g ------>level out
Flaps/ Gear / Trim
Much appreciated.
Also, on a side question unrelated, do you slightly trim nose down during flight. I've read a lot of guys do this for the stick back pressure for precision for formation and refueling..
Hey, I'm new to DCS and landing the F-18 and F-16 has always been an issue for me.
Tavaris Daniel watch this video then dude! Haha
Hi I'm not new to Dcs and landing anything has always been an issue for me.
I've managed to land F-15 after a few tries. The gears on that thing feels like thin glass. On a side note I only play with keyboard and mouse because I'm cheap.
The FA18 automatically retracts the airbrake when the gear and flaps are down. Any way around this?
I decided to buy DCS on Steam (VR reason) after watching your video. Congrats by the way. I'm facing some problems: MSFS works fine in my machine but I'm having dual eyes view per lens in my Pimax 5K+ when using OpenXR. I've tried everything possible (to my knowledge) to fix, but I can't get rid of this issue. I'm loaded to the left of the aircraft (fixed with re-center VR) but with this dual view per eye. I've got a fast machine (i7, 128 Gb RAM, all Samsung Evo Pro SSD, RTX 2080 Ti). I followed your video instructions to improve PC performance (improved MSFS), but my DCS... I also have HAG disabled. Parallel projections on and off. I don't really know what else I can do. Can you help me out, please? Thanks
It's a great tutorial. But I do have one question: Why would you choose the time of day in which you are flying DIRECTLY into the sun to demonstrate something that requires we keep our eyes on the numbers and symbology on the HUD, which is almost impossible to see? I understand that sometimes, you will be flying into the sun, but the video is almost useless, because I cannot make out the readings on your HUD. Can you do it again and put the sun directly overhead?
Are you leaving the speed brake extended throughout? I've heard that deploying gear/flaps will retract it so assuming brake has to be extended after that. It looks like leading edge flaps adjust themselves but in my poor approaches the TEF also seem to move, which I don't think is helping me a bit.
I noticed the speed brake retracts when you have full flaps. There may have been an update since this video was made
Why do i even want to land within AOA of 8.1?? whats the matter if i land for example with 2.0?
I dont feel my airbrake in su22. I can land but it keeps on drifting... Now im not sure if im playing dcs or forza.
My issue is falling out of the sky during the second turn after the downwind leg.
Awesome thank you
how did you get your HUD symbology so small? Mine is zoomed in and is hard to read from time to time.
I'm not sure what you mean!
@@Spudknocker in your screen capture, you can see all the data. mine is so zoomed in that you have to move around
Is your silhouette a buddy store rigged foxtrot f18?
I think its an EA-18G
Wingtips are wrong for a Growler.
Excellent IP!
lol, 9:00 I thought I have a bird in my house.
I've watched this descent so many times and every time i attempt the manouevre, i end up completely on the other side of the runway as i'm coming into land :( how on earth does he come in precisely on the centreline? i swear i'm doing everything correctly
Ok... This is dope
The "Keelback Effect" as far as I understand it does not create any lift rather torque that leads the aircraft to zero out aoa.
Can the su25t use this method
Do you have 1 for the 14?
So when your plane is in the region of reverse command, I know that you use the throttle to control altitude. How about when you ar3 too slow or too fast?
In a general aviation plane like a Cessna 172, whenever your aircraft is on final and in the region of reverse command, if you get too slow, you push forward on the yoke to pitch down, and if you get too fast you pull back on the yoke to you pitch up and if you are too high you reduce throttle and if you get too low, you increase throttle.
However in Wags video he said that you never use forward or back stick during final and you only use throttle and left and right stick. So in fighter aircraft when in the region of reverse command, do you use throttle to speed and altitude or just like GA aircraft, do you use throttle to control altitude and pitch to control speed?
I heard the answer to my question around minute 31 in the video. Thanks.
I started practicing this, as I'm new to dcs; great training! BUT... I noticed my speedbrake keeps retracting during the break! I can't figure out why? It's fully extended, I pull Gs, drop the gear and flaps; but when i roll out, I'm fast because the brake retracted. Any idea why the speedbrake keeps retracting during the break? (and no, I'm not accidentally hitting retract button)
One other thing, I look at my FCS page to help me gauge the right trim to hold AoA (about 9% stab). But, I am unable to gauge it correctly while still in the bank, which leads to chronically too much OR too little trim for AoA on rollout heading. Any tips with either?
This comes a bit late, but: if you drop flaps your speedbrake automatically retracts. You need to extend it again after dropping the flaps.
Great job! O7
Other tutorials (even the DCS tutorial) fly past the runway and start the downleg a few miles back
Hold shift, makes lines straight
how do I get training with you
nice
Now teach me how to do A/A refueling without kamakazing the tanker thanks!!
That is on the list
I kill tankers.....they are my enemy 😐
I’m trying to learn DCS and like I got confused ngl
And also my laptop can’t Handel DCS so I have to play it at friends house which a RIP
As always, why, who else? It's your channel.