The Indian 7.62 mm Bren is still in use. As an NCC cadet about a decade ago in college, we were taught extensively how to field strip and re assemble this beauty. Never got to fire one sadly.
The Australian Army cadets had the (.303) Bren as well up until at least the mid-70s. I practiced many hundreds of times to field strip and reassemble it as well. I also never got to fire one!!
I was re-issued an L4 in 1989 when our SA80 LSWs had to go back to the shop for modifications. Still in widespread service with Engineers and Artillery into 1994.
Everyone designs for the last war and often with unproven doctrines for the next. Hell, even wars in close proximity at the same time have very different needs. I remember reading (Or watching, maybe an inrange interview) that Afghanistan has led to a lot of movement to calibres suitable for higher range, while more urban situations one country over have totally different needs where going through 2 walls means you might kill the next door neighbour and piss off their entire extended family.
@@edwalmsley1401 or when they stuck a round lead ball down the barrel instead of a kind of arrow. APFS was a thing in the thirteenth century I am led to believe.
The L4A4 was famously used in the Battle of Grytviken, when a detachment of Royal Marines beat off an attack by a corvette. There haven’t been many battles in which a small infantry force have beaten a ship, but this was one of the most extraordinary.
British army used these extensively as a light support weapon as well as the GPMG. I used these in my time in the British army and they were replaced by the lsw in the mid nineties. I served with lads who used these in the falklands conflict and they swore by them. So the bren really saw active service from mid thirties to mid nineties not bad service for a military weapon.
Wonderful machine. Bren story. It was about 1991 and the L4 was finally going out of service. There was a range day that we all knew would be the last chance to fire it. Everyone was getting to fire it, so all the cooks and bottlewashers and paper pushers were out there with the rest of us. WO2 Sherrington made the serious error of putting me in charge of ammunition distribution. Everyone was to get 3 full magazines. I handed out 3 mags each to countless details throughout the day. Myself and some of the officers would form the last detail. So there I was, lying down behind my favourite weapon for the last time: make it memorable! One mag. Two mags. Three mags. "Everybody finished?" "No Sir!" as I change to the fourth mag. "Finished?" Cock gun, mag off, mag on. "No Sir!" By the time I got to the sixth magazine, this had now become a popular show and everyone was crowding round to see just how many mags this could go on for. The Sergeant Major didn't know whether to laugh or cry as I kept going until I had fired nine full magazines into the tattered remains of the targets. Memorable.
I was trained on the Bren in the South African Defence Force in 1980, and the weapons we had were very tired. I recall most were 1942 versions converted to 7.62 and we only seemed to use the 20 round mag which were interchangeable with our FN/R4 assault rifles. I recall the folding cocking handle and the dial type sight, but most of all I recall the horror that trained us and to this day whenever I see a Bren I shudder in dismay. The irony is that when we deployed to South West Africa we were issued with the FN-MAG.
- at the risk of not getting the joke ;-)... The BAR was a one-man weapon? If riflemen in the squad carried magazines for the BAR, I retract the next statement. The BREN was a crew-served weapon, that could in a pinch be used by one man, if strong enough to carry a useful load of ammunition. Other riflemen in the section carried Bren magazines, and for the 7.62mm versions could swap magazines. A TV series where the BAR and Bren are compared as if the Bren was a BAR (fired from the hip) tends not to reference the different uses the weapons were put to.
as i remember some of the 7.62 brens got given to the indian army when the british army bind them. also the indian army converted a lot of them themselves.
Small curiosity about the bren in the Italian army: we greatly appreciated this weapon so much that we decided to convert from .303 to 7.62 NATO which remained in service in the 60s, while it was replaced by the MG-42/59 also in 7, 62 NATO
@Danish Tariq I'm fully aware of that, it was waaay ahead of it's time, no wonder it's still used by most of the west Europe's armies. It was just a joke.
@Danish Tariq Not if you're using it as a light machine gun. Try charging across a field to assault a position while trailing a belt of ammo out of your gun and reloading that gun on the run.
@Danish Tariq Depends greatly on the role. THe FN Minimi is far closer to the BREN in function than the MG3 or M60. The BREN is an early squad automatic weapon, and far more were deployed per unit that the MG34 or MG42, because they served different purposes and different tactics. One is superior to the other in different situations, though the BREN has been supplanted by other models that are more effective in the roles the BREN typically served.
@@sill5876 India retired theirs.... in 2012. Officially. Some still in use for specialized roles apparently. This being said, they were not relying on WWII stocks but continued to build their own. Why? Because... it worked for the roles they used it for.
The best LMG ever imho. I found it reliable, accurate, light(ish) and liked having no belts trailing to catch on vegetation. Even better than the .303 version.
As a former L4 gunner, the magazine spring on the 30 round mag was too weak to enable full compatibility with the L1A1. Remember, it’s a gravity fed mag! Edit! We used to pack the base plate with card from the 7.62 boxes to make it feed properly by adding additional tension to the spring.
@@Deadbeatcow there is a fal light machinegun. It had a 30 round mag. Id imagine if the British army wanted 30 round mags. They would buy those. Also i imagine if the spring tension is too high it wont feed into the Bren anymore.
@@Deadbeatcow the official policy was not to use the 30 round mags in the L1A1. Springs were not changed out to dissuade their use. The guys who went to the Falklands brought a fair few Argentinian FN mags back for personal use to get round this.
Just something to add, while these were only sold to a few nations they were however found in a lot of military aid packages, notably Nepal during their civil war, which is the only time I have got up close with them. you also see Sri Lankans with them
We had them in our battalion, lot of fun, they had a much smaller beaten zone than the M60. You could empty a whole mag into a figure 11 target at 100m easily.
@@dentonw6ir0qf15 Went to Malaysia in 1986. There was a jungle warfare school set up by the British at a place called Pulada, they had a good live fire range there. Got sick of shooting dart targets so I emptied a mag on the Bren into a nearby dam just for fun at probably 300-350m range. It was a night shoot and we were using illumination flares from a 84mm Carl Gustov recoiles rifle. Every round went smacking into the dam. Fucking thing was like a sniper machine gun lol
The worst Australian inovation was brazing the Bren bipod onto the mag58 afyer the mags bipod broke. The bren bipod were heavy, wouldnt lock up, couldnt be pushed into and the feet had to be hoochie corded up so they wouldn't fall off.
Lithgow 'tried'. Every L4A4 I encountered in Oz was a Brit conversion. WAY back in the early 1950s, when a "NATO" cartridge was being argued about, moves were already afoot to "update the BREN to this new round. The design drawings I have seen described it as being in "Calibre .300" (pre. spec finalization and standardization of the ammo designation) and showing it as using FAL (small lip) magazines. Interestingly, the Seth Efricans had quite a few 7.62mm Brens in the field at one time. These also used the twenty-round FAL-type magazine as used, obviously, on their FALs (R1). In recent years, due to dwindling supplies of good .303 ammo, some hardy souls have tried conversions to 7.62 x 54R, using .303 barrels, with the chamber opened out to 7.62 x 54R size, resulting an fired cases coming out with a weird "double neck". Results appear to have varied according to the skills and enthusiasm of the "developer".
When I was in the Australian Army back in the '90's we had a couple in the back of the armory that would be trotted out for the Australian Army Skill at Arms Meet. They still shot laser straight after all those years.
Especially if he plays it completely straight, with a fully-fabricated history for the weapon and then right at the end Brandon walks in asks "How'd you get in here?" and Ian just runs.
A friend of mine used one in the First Gulf War. As an armoured ambulance driver, his unit was equipped with the SLR and ‘Bren’ instead of the SA80 and newer LMG.
The medics (RAMC) would have had SMG's, Officers BAP's, the "others" (RCT, Catering Corps, REME, etc) would have had SLR's. I'm not sure what the AGC carried - sharpened pencils, I think! :) Of course, they all became RLC and everyone under the rank of Major got the SA80 shortly after
@@cmck472 - My friend was RCT (and later RLC) he was issued an SLR, and the squad also carried a ‘Bren’ LMG. I was in the navy during Op Granby, and even though I had been trained on the SLR in basic training, and had received conversion training to the SA80, as part of the QRF I used SMG and BAP.
We had these in the Aussie army. We dragged them out, dusted them off and put a few mags through them now and then just for a bit of fun. Hes right about the mags. The SLR L1A1 took the Bren mags, tho the spring was a bit weaker.
@@dansmith9724 Mates dad was with regular soldier with 5RAR. When I asked him about the Bren he said they preferred the L4 Bren over the version of the L1A1 SLR. As for Vietnam, when they deployed in 1966 they didn't take the Brens or the L2A1s, having being equiped with the M60 at section level well before deploying. Digression time..... The actual adoption of the M60 was controversial. The diggers preference for a belt fed GPMG was the ever reliable L7/MAG 58 which the Australian Army had experience with in Borneo and Malaya. The M60 was only adopted as a logistic expediency by the CDF after a visit to the US prior to committing the Australian Task Force to Vietnam. This was done without any trial process. Oddly enough the MAG58 replaced the M60 in the 1990s. Everyone I served with (and every Vietnam era digger I've met) who used both guns always rates the MAG58 over the M60 despite its weight/balance.
We still had them during Desert Shield/Storm/Sabre (or if being correct!) Operation Granby. But we were not front line troops because we were logistics and only 3 miles behind the front!
Ian the Bren was also extensively used by the SADF, (the South African Defence Force) as the section automatic/light machine gun, in the infantry bats. Until larger numbers of the FN MAG became more available. These were also conversions of mainly Mk 2 guns and some Mk1* guns. The gunners used to carry all their ammo in 20 round FN R1 mags. Until they got tooling from the Rhodesians for the 30 round mags. 500 rounds in 20 round mags is quite a load, so that why most of the gunners selected were beefy farm boys. The Bren was popular with its two man crews, and a lot of the gunners readily became the section sharpshooter, as the Bren is the most accurate of all light machine guns, and can fire selective single shots.
Lol this was my main vehicle weapon in 1991 for the gulf war, along with my SLR personal weapon. Brilliant bit of kit, reliable, simple to use and maintain.
@@minuteman4199 A lot of the Signals units still had them. Mainly because the MOD were slow getting everyone trained on the SA80 along with getting them out to the units. As the signals are not one of the main teeth arms we got second best stuff
High quality piece of kit- very well engineered, superb build quality- hewn from granite. Used the L4 in the reserves until the early 90's. Superbly accurate- which was one reason it was popular in Northern Ireland.
Just a small point Mr Jesus Sir as an ex British Soldier L1A1's were only referred to as " SLR's " , we never mentioned FAL when serving :) Mainly because we regarded the SLR as superior to the original Belgian Rifle , the SLR was certainly more accurate :)
In the Canadian army it was usually referred to as "rifle" since it was the only one is service at the time this didn't cause any confusion. Alternatively it was referred to as an FN.
@@PhilipKerry Canada has been independent of Great Britain for less than 39 years. You can't blame us for training failures on something we didn't supply and they used for years before that. Nor can you justify the idea that we would call anything just "the rifle." But no, now even Canada is America's fault. Such a pity after you started out so well.
Australia also had a bunch of L4A4s. They were in inventory into the early 1990s. Issued to "non-infantry" units. When I was with a Field Workshop unit, we had several. They were the "fire-support" weapon for the Recovery Mechanics and were standard equipment for their big recovery / tow trucks. The idea was that a vehicle recovery team doing their thing makes an enticing target, so there was a need for some added "wallop" for the protection party, i.e., everyone a the scene who was not intimately involved with hitching and hauling the disabled vehicle. We also used the L4A4s as "competition guns in service shooting. one of the early tricks learned was that the most efficient way to carrrry the L4A4 whilst running as a team / section, was in "stretcher" mode. With one soldier grasping the end of the barrel and a second by the wrist of the butt, you can move quite quickly. If it is a "long" run, you can "pass the baton" at each end, on the fly to share the load around the other troops. Sadly, all gone now.
The Bren really did have a long service life. You can see photos of this later variant in the Falklands war and I believe it was still used in combat right up to the 1st Gulf war by some units.
@@sticks5614 My grandfather carried one through Normandy, through Belgium to the end of the war. It's impressive that the British Army kept them around for so long afterwards. I had no idea.
Very useful against a culvert bomb. I pity the poor squadies sent there to fight a war that could not be won. Even though a fair few of them were sadistic bastards that wanted to kill. The majority were just mercenaries out of school and with no options. Sad country the Uk.
@@elzorro7of9 I was a soldier in the Ulster Defence Regiment CGC and The Royal Irish Regiment CGC , I joined to protect my family friends and the community when our part time soldiers were out doing checkpoints and patrols the ordinary person could sleep safe in there beds , People say to me that there were no Roman Catholic soldiers which there were at the start but the Republicans killed them when they were at home , but lots of Roman Catholic soldiers in my Regiment wanted to put these terrorists behind bars I have survived numerous attempts on my life I even had to pack up and move house, The last time I looked at the British Army we never recruited mercenaries, if you count the GURKA's mabe sort of The majority of people in Northern Ireland want peace and stay in the union This includes lots of Roman Catholics, But you never hear things like that, I have been on a culvert bomb the thing didn't detonate or I would not be here. I was a gunner and carried the L4 many times , this was not a war but just a minority people who wanted to be the majority ,
I trained with these in the South African Infantry back in 1970 when we still had a number of the 7.62 Bren LMGs. They were soon supplanted by the FN LMGs which I really loved.
I've heard that British armourers/quartermasters clung to the L4s for grim death, using all sorts of administrative tricks to keep hold of them. They were certainly used throughout the Northern Ireland 'Troubles' and in the Falklands War. IIRC, their last outing was the Gulf War in 1991.
They did. I used one in '88 in Ulster and my Regiment still had them in '91. It was probably too accurate for a section weapon but I thought it was brilliant and even preferred it to my SLR which by the late '80's was on it's last legs.
We had L4A4s in use here in New Zealand in the 80's, we still operated the .303 Bren's until conversion to FN C9 LSW in 1987, I used the .303 Bren's on my Basic Training in 1986. And I am pretty sure the Australian Army used the L4s as well. Anyhow, very nostalgic for me, thanks and have a great week and month ahead
I remember carrying one in the early 90's. If I remember correctly the Mags wouldn't work in the SLR as the magazine spring was supposed to be weaker and caused feeding issues when inserted in the SLR. Oh and I remember on exercise once I jumped up and ran 20 meters and found that when I hit the ground I only had the yellow blank firing barrel in my hand and the rest of the LMG was 20 meters behind me.
I love almost everything about all the effort they put into this. Lining out the original numbers so they are still easy to read, highlighting the new size... Plus the level of workmanship on the internal modifications...
Lyttelton Engineering Works in South Africa did a similar conversion on SADF Brens, 1972-1976. The standard 20rd R1 (FAL) magazines were used and Rhodesia also manufactured 30rd magazines.
I fired a 7.62 BREN during a joint training exercise in Grafenwoehr. The L1A1 20 round magazine would feed the BREN but the 30 round BREN magazine had to weak of a spring to reliably feed the L1A1. It made the 30 round magazine much faster and easier to reload and, the BREN didn't need the spring due to the top feed magazine having gravity assist to the feed.
@@thonger63 Having used 'em both as well (1984-2007), I know which one I prefer: the Minimi (also called the LMG in British service) just hasn't got the class of the Bren LMG (or the accuracy and stopping power). Plus we used to win our wars when we had the latter gun in service.
Replaced the L1A2 heavy barrel LMG . That's where the 30 round magazines came from. Fired the .303 and 7.62 Brens, the L1A2 LMG and the M60. Bren was soooooo good.
Thanks for that really enjoyed it, when I did my basic training in 1986 the LMG was still in use and my reserve unit had them too. I seem to remember thinking it hilarious that I was carrying a modified 1944 bren gun. They were however reliable and accurate to shoot the pain of being a section LMG gunner though was the weight of all the extra ammo. The LSW that replaced it was lighter by far but stoppages all teh time once they got hot.
Happy days. Ex-REME soldier I remember using this many times - great weapon. Last time I fired it was MacGilligan Point ranges (Northern Ireland)~1991.
Ex REME too but the only thing I fired at Magilligan was a 30mm Rarden cannon mounted on a Fox - 1981. 2nd Tanks were very good and always saved a few rounds for us to have a go - I remember the cook even having a go!
I fired this a bit in the RAF in the 80/90's. Very accurate on the bipod. I recall the ruled out Bren Mk3 markings but they were not highlighted in white and the 7.62 marking didn't have an orange patch. Great video Ian.
There nothing more sexy than a 30 round Bren mag in a FAL. I remember seeing some old pictures of Australian SAS with a cut down SLR, converted to select fire, 30 round Bren mag and a 40mm grenade launcher under slung, now that’s some firepower.
Those were likely L2A1s (known as C2A1s in the Canadian Armed forces) - heavy barrel L1s that the Australian Military used - they came with a proprietary 30 round magazine. The Argentines used a similar weapon called the FAP (Fusil Automático Pesado, or heavy automatic rifle) and it was found that the argentine Metric pattern FAL magazines would fit the Imperial Inch pattern L1A1s (but curiously not the other way around!).
That was not a Bren mag, the Aussies adopted the FN FAL heavy barrel version as well which they called the L2A1, this had straight 30 round mags that were designed to feed upwards LMG mags were designed to work with gravity and could cause feed issues when used on SLR's - the concept of interchangeable mags was so the LMG gunner could use any 7.62mm mags the section carried
I believe both of you, in that case the notes next to the picture were incorrect, understandable, it was a British book. Edit: typed in “Australian SAS FN FAL” into google images and the very same pictures I remember from 20 years ago came up, looks like we’re both right, and they used both types of mags. Search for the article: “When Government Issue Wasn’t Enough: The Australian “B*tch” Variant of the SLR”
@@mitchfromtheinternet297 The British did not use an HBAR version of the SLR (or FAL) as a section level LMG and retained the modified BREN for that role (IIRC only for light infantry forces such as the Royal marine Commandos etc). So yes a British person who did not appreciate the use of the L2 or C2 would look at the mag and assume it was an L4 Bren Gun mag. This British person (read 'nerd') knows better ;)
It is a very unique and pretty nice looking machine gun. Just by the design and material that were used it's obvious that a lot of work went into making and then converting it.
The Royal Marines had one extra man per section. They had an LMG and a GPMG in each section.i used LMG mags in the SLR and didn"t have any feed issues. An odd thing with them was the recoil. Or rather lack thereof. When firing prone using the bipod, it tended to drag the firer forward. When on automatic. Another thing was when the barrelbsecuring latch got worn. It could undo. So when the firer grabbed the carrying handle. Sometimes the barrel was the only thing that he moved with. Having to go back for the rest of the gun! Easy to use and very reliable. Thank you for this excellent presentation.
About that red stamp. As it is broadly known, privates of every army in the world can be divided in two groups. Very dumb but not so strong, and very dumb and also very strong)
Not to forget the L4 continued in service after the FN MAG was introduced. Apparently the Paras preferred the Bren as it was lighter, there are pictures of the paras using them during the Falklands conflict
Royal Marines, Mountain and Arctic Warfare Cadre, Royal Engineers plus other support services had the LMG (Brit name for the bren in 7.62mm), the paras had the FN MAG (more dakka) as did the army infantry Bn's
There are also photos from the Falklands (I forget which reference book I saw them in) of some British troops using the 30 round 7.62 Bren magazines in their SLR's. I also recall hearing (& this may well be one of those urban myths) that doing this was iffy as they didn't feed well as having weaker springs for top down feeding & could have issues used "bottom up". I'm sure I've heard this debunked though.
@@contactacb I've heard the same, from people who did national service, they'd get the armourer to beef up the spring (this could have just been putting a new spring in tbh) considering the L1A1 only had semi, i think they'd be ok. Apparently one other 'trick' involved a matchbook and the sear.. ;)
I was trained as a MAG58 gunner when I was a conscript in 1972 for the SADF. I was during the South West African border war, issued with a 7.62 Bren gun with my 3 months border service. The Bren was changed in South Africa from .303 to 7.62. The differences are not as noticeable as the one in the video. We used 7.62 R1 20 rounds of magazines and my no 2 did carry the second barrel.
The Apartheid government was under sanctions so their 7.62 NATO Brens are different from the Bren 7.62 NATO Brens. The L4 was designed by FN for the British while the South African Bren were old WW2 Brens modified to fire7.62 NATO and take existing R1 FN Fal mags.
I managed to pick up a couple of L4A4 mags for my RRA LAR8. They were a little crusty but cleaned up nicely. Had to send one back for replacement because the ribbon follower spring was broken in two places. Actually just took a picture attached to an email and sent it to Sarco and they sent the replacement w/o asking for the old mag back. Good customer service.
I loved these things!.. It was my job as Gunner back in the day. The 30 round flat spring mags needed gravity to assist feeding. And wouldn't work on the SLR/FAL. Vice versa the 20s worked fine. We didn't bother with the spare barrel on the ranges. With it's slower rate of fire overheating wasn't a major problem. A single barrel is good for 1200 rounds before it runs into gas stoppages and the odd runaway... Thanks for the Vid!
Thanks Ian, I don't think I've seen anyone else do a look over the 7.62mm version before. I used it heavily during my time in the British army and it was a highly effective weapon indeed and with a good gun crew could put down very (very) accurate fire for as long as they could keep feeding it mags and barrels. Was prone to having the occasional runaway if the barrels were not swapped out. I have to disagree on your comment about the navy side using it more than the army as it was the standard issue section LMG for all non-teeth arms in the army, and there were a lot of us! IIRC, the RM used it in the Falklands due to it's light weight (unless it was you carrying it that is!). Finally saw the end of it's service in 1993 when it was finally replaced in our unit with the SA80/LSW. And yes, the SA80 really did take that long to roll out to the regular amry!
The Indian army still uses the 1B Bren gun in pintle mounts of vehicles, as well as as an LMG. It's the 7.62 NATO version. Although it is being replaced by FN MAG, the troops had high praise for it during the Kargil conflict, specially it's reliability, magazines and relative light weight. It is usually the gun mounted in vehicles in yellow or green zones i.e where security needs to be high, although the chances of a conflict is pretty low
@ Jan The Indian license produced MAG has been in use since the late 1960s as a GPMG/MMG. The .303 /7.62 Bren, also license produced in India is used as a LMG by the Indian army and security forces since the 1940s. Though, from the late 1980s the 7.62mm Bren was in large part replaced by the INSAS 5.56mm mag fed LMG . Recently, the Indian Army has started inducting the 7.62mm NEGEV in place of the INSAS LMG . There is also an Indian designed 7.62mm belt fed LMG derived from the MAG. However, its induction status by any of the Indian forces is not known.
Carried one of these up to 1993 in the Australian Army. Loved using the 30round magazines in the L1A1. Put a carefully bent paper clip in behind the sear and the L1A1 became full auto. Loads of fun.
Used these in Northern Ireland as the search team gunner and found out the LMG MAG didn’t work on the SLR ( L1A1 ) as the spring wasn’t strong enough to push the rounds up, it was a weaker spring than what we had in the rifle mags. You could use the in an emergency but only get about 10-15 rounds fired before you got stoppages from rounds not feeding. I know because I’ve done it.
I found the exact opposite. If you read " A Battle Is FoughtTo Be Won" you'll find that this was tested out by The Para Regt on the way to The Falklands. The LMG mag worked perfectly in all tests !
@@clivedunning4317 lots of things work well in tests, used in the field by the soldiers that carry them is often a better 'test'. I'm sure the troops don't like it that way if it costs them, hell my Steyr Aug wouldnt function after an O course....stuffed if i know how it passed any tests all i did was take it through muddy water. Show me a conflict where there isn't at least some sort of moisture or debris ingress into a soldiers carried weapon. Stop shooting at me while i clean my rifle will you FFS...
Good Day All : Where were the original Bren Guns manufactured ? Was it in Toronto Ontario ? Or was it in the French speaking province of Quebec ? The lee Infields and Stens were made just down the road from my house on Lakeshore blvd here in Toronto . I just visited that building last week . A few years ago I happened to meet the daughter of the famous "BREN GUN RONNIE" ( Veronica Foster ) . Remember her ? She was the famous machine shop girl at the Bren Gun factory that pumped out so many Brens. When I met her , she happily smiled and said that she also owned her own Bren Gun . Good for her ! ! !
I was not infantry. My unit had one LMG and I was nominated gunner/carrier. I was taught the LMG early on in my career 1968, we had two old Cpls who had broken their service then rejoined to qualify for their 22 year pension. Both had been Grenadier Guardsmen in the Guards Armored Division in WW II. Two very old soldiers, who drilled the LMG and earlier Bren into us. Safety and ability to strip and reassemble where their priorities. We learned all the possible stoppages, which apart from first couple of magazines I never saw in my time as gunner. My unit received a New converted LMG, in a wooden box and I had the job of cleaning off the heavy protective grease before use. On the range I expireanced a dozen or so stoppages on my LMG. Most on first mag then only a couple on second mag, never missed a beat after that. Older troops explained that new guns needed Breaking in, my LMG did and was perfection after its initial shoot. My unit was equipped with GPMG, and their gunners envied me as I envied their modern replacement for my Old LMG. John
I liked Ian's definition of peacetime Britain 1958 to 1960. Post 1945 - the Malayan Emergency, the Cyprus Crisis, Suez, Mau Mau Uprising, Indonesian Confrontation, the Radfan, Aden Withdrawal, the confrontation with Iraq over Kuwait. There's probably a couple others. Am leaving out anything after 1969.
Thanks Ian , I’ve always wanted to know more about this rare lmg , it was in service with the Australian army for some time but information is pretty scarce
The 7.62 Bren (L4A4)was also used in Australian service . They also used the straight 30 round magazine from the SLR . I assume they were local conversions of the Lithgow manufactured guns but I'm not sure about that.
I still like the idea of a magazine-fed SAW for a lot of situations. The Bren seems to be one of those older designs that would probably be just fine on a modern battlefield.
The main period is 1956 when the L4 Brens came into service to 1961 when the L7, the Gimpy we know and love, was adopted. Yes, L4s hung around as the light automatic weapon for sections and on certain vehicles, it continued in use well into the 1990s because of the well known L86; however its heyday as the primary automatic weapon of the infantry was in that five year period before Enfield could finish its work on converting the FN MAG and, to a lesser extent, until 1968 when enough L7 GPMGs could be produced to fulfil requirements. Incidentally the 1968 date coincides with the withdrawal of the BESA and Vickers machine guns.
Many years ago I visited the Pattern Room when it was at the Royal Small Arms Factory in Nottingham. Not only was I staggered at the sheer number of patterns held, but the incredible number of different variations of Bren Guns they had on this one long huge table as you walked into the main room. I don't think I realised just how many variants, some purely experimental, there were.
I carried the South African equivalent in 1978 -79 in South West Africa and my subsequent service in the Reserve force till 1989. We still tired the spare barrel as well.
astounding the amount of guns there are on this earth. theres literally no end to the different types of guns that have been invented since gunpowder was invented edit: thanks for the likes. confused on how this turned into a philosophy lesson over the use of a word but I’m intrigued. also Ian will never run out of material and I love it
@@rodgerjohnson3375 lol, that's ridiculous. The world isn't run by some secret cabal. It's mostly a bunch of morons and rich people, throwing the boat one way or the other, refusing to admit the world is mostly rudderless. The people in charge who stomp on our faces are largely really into guns, so they won't go away. Mercer has one of the largest gun collections in america
You mentioned this was sold to 4 countries. In 1974 I was serving in the First commando regiment in Australia. I used the 7.62 BREN on a number of occasions. I don't know how many were acquired by the Australian military. However it was definitely used in some way by Australia. I found it reliable.
I'm a simple kinda guy .. I see Bren, I click Ian's content is first class and fascinating, as always - blessed are the disciples of Gun Jesus, for his knowledge and goodness knows no bounds ;-)
Same as many have commented. We had a lot of LMGs with the 1944/45 stamps lined out. Converted to 7.62. Really accurate weapon. Right out to 600 yards+ . Used by all the support arms into early 90s including Gulf One
When I was using these and the SLR during my British Army service, we were told not to use the LMG mags on the SLR as the spring was weaker, being used in the vertical (gravity) feed on the LMG, meaning the spring was longer and weaker, not sure how true this was as some of my comrades did use these mags on their rifles?
A fantastic weapon that I used often and successfully. But using the L4 magazine on the L1 A1 (SLR) rifle often caused problems as the spring in the 30 round mag was often too weak to push the 30 rounds up into the rifle whereas on the L4 (Bren) they also had gravity to assist their feeding into the gun. But rifle mags worked perfectly on the LMGs.
Bren mag jammed in SLR as it was gravity fed in lmg. Needed two springs in mag to push up rounds in SLR. Aussie also had a bigger SLR mag which didn't jam.
Do you know about the Bren MKII converted in 7.62NATO by Breda, and used in Italy by the Corpo delle Guardie di Pubblica Sicurezza and later by the Police? They were removed from the armouries in recent years.
Couple of things. My unit had LMG's and we loved them. We did everything besides mutiny to keep them in preference to the bloody awful LSW. It was a sad sad day when finally we had done all we could to obstruct the removal of the LMG. I still have a split case extractor from the kit. Loved the LMG and I would still have one as preference to any belt fed faster firing weapon system. You could plink away with an LMG and watch the fall of shot better, adjust as necessary onto the target and then just bounce the gun in your shoulder to give a lovely three round burst.. Accurate as hell and with the 7.62 a great way to demolish walls and make a door in houses..
The Bren is such a remarkable pieace of firearm and history! It's a very well made gun that lived through WWll and served well after the fall of the .303 brit cartridge! I really love the Bren and I love even more the ZB, the gun the Brenm was based on; NICE video as always Ian! I like to study history through weapons and I most certainly learnt something new today!
I have fired this excellent weapon in competition in 1974 during my junior army service in the LMG Pairs Cup Match at Ash Ranges. We came in runners-up overall but first in the junior army. Alas my partner in that match was killed in a car accident shortly thereafter, RIP Mick. The L4 LMG was a superb reliable and accurate weapon system, almost too accurate to be a good LMG. Needless to say I hold this old bundook in very high regard!
That was the ''BREN'' we had in Cadets. We trained on an old 303 model, deactivated of course, then we'd use 7,62 mm LMG for range days. I really loved that gun , you can walk the rounds onto the target , then that's it , just keep putting round after round on top of each other.
Ian: "Not that you can actually fit a .303 magazine in"
Average Squaddie: "Are you challenging me?"
Never underestimate the ingenuity of fools when designing something foolproof
@Cumberland Sausage You mind if I use that?
Hold my beer
Theres no such thing as can't when there's a squaddie about
Even worse, a National Service squaddie.
The Indian 7.62 mm Bren is still in use. As an NCC cadet about a decade ago in college, we were taught extensively how to field strip and re assemble this beauty. Never got to fire one sadly.
The Australian Army cadets had the (.303) Bren as well up until at least the mid-70s. I practiced many hundreds of times to field strip and reassemble it as well. I also never got to fire one!!
Your loss I'm afraid. It's a lovely weapon to fire.
A bit of a bugger to clean after a day on the range though!
@@sapper82 agrees.i was always last to the armoury.lol
Hamare bhikhari 1 1 goli bachate hain. Waise bhi OFB se aya hota hai muh pe fat jaega isliye nahi chalane dete 🤣🤣🤣
Got a chance to fire it in full auto. Super cool and super accurate weapon when put in bipood
I was re-issued an L4 in 1989 when our SA80 LSWs had to go back to the shop for modifications. Still in widespread service with Engineers and Artillery into 1994.
Which did you prefer?
I trained on the LMG and SLR back in 89. We didn't get the L85 and LSW until 91 ot so.
Issued in gulf war 1 when SA80s jammed up with sand.
@@astondriver lol 😂 Nowt like a weapon that fuses sand into glass to cause an armourer to fix...!
@@astondriver that went well lol. You'd have thought they'd have tested that especially given the 30 year development time.
It's official, March is Bren Fest Month
Kalashnibren
Atleast there is no trigger on top
Next is Matt and Kentucky.
"Brarch" ? 😊
Someone watched the kalashnabren
Fascinating stuff, really goes to show "just convert the old stuff to a new caliber" being highly involved in some cases.
I do recall that was the case for quite alot of weapons.
Everyone designs for the last war and often with unproven doctrines for the next. Hell, even wars in close proximity at the same time have very different needs. I remember reading (Or watching, maybe an inrange interview) that Afghanistan has led to a lot of movement to calibres suitable for higher range, while more urban situations one country over have totally different needs where going through 2 walls means you might kill the next door neighbour and piss off their entire extended family.
Upcycling was always a thing i guess.
Right back to the days of making BP breach loaders from muzzle loading muskets
@@edwalmsley1401 or when they stuck a round lead ball down the barrel instead of a kind of arrow. APFS was a thing in the thirteenth century I am led to believe.
The L4A4 was famously used in the Battle of Grytviken, when a detachment of Royal Marines beat off an attack by a corvette. There haven’t been many battles in which a small infantry force have beaten a ship, but this was one of the most extraordinary.
@sng LE CONG TAM Or just poor weapons maintenance !
@sng LE CONG TAM Most weapon systems don't take kindly to arctic weather.
@@crafftyferret the small arms still peppered the hell out of the ship's Bridge Crew.
That and a Charlie G that almost crippled the ship
A blizzard of small arms fire can be demoralizing...
This conversion was still used during the Falklands War beside the FN-MAG.
they still in use during operation gramby
And right up to the Gulf war by some units i believe.
@@Aren-1997 Op GRANBY mentioned by Dave is the British op name for the gulf war
By THEM. you know, THEM.
I remember anything that could throw lead in full auto being hoovered up by paras and bootnecks, including many Bren conversions.
British army used these extensively as a light support weapon as well as the GPMG. I used these in my time in the British army and they were replaced by the lsw in the mid nineties. I served with lads who used these in the falklands conflict and they swore by them. So the bren really saw active service from mid thirties to mid nineties not bad service for a military weapon.
I have a feeling this will lead up to the legendary collab with Brandon Hererra talking about the Kalashnabren
*kalashnibren
I saw the thumbnail and was thought for a moment that it was that monstrosity.
panzer lord42 It’s a work of art 😅
I just finished watching the Kalashnibren video and this popped up, I thought "Damn, Brandon ditched it in a hurry."
Probably not, but it doesn't hurt to dream
Wonderful machine.
Bren story. It was about 1991 and the L4 was finally going out of service. There was a range day that we all knew would be the last chance to fire it. Everyone was getting to fire it, so all the cooks and bottlewashers and paper pushers were out there with the rest of us. WO2 Sherrington made the serious error of putting me in charge of ammunition distribution. Everyone was to get 3 full magazines. I handed out 3 mags each to countless details throughout the day. Myself and some of the officers would form the last detail. So there I was, lying down behind my favourite weapon for the last time: make it memorable! One mag. Two mags. Three mags. "Everybody finished?" "No Sir!" as I change to the fourth mag. "Finished?" Cock gun, mag off, mag on. "No Sir!" By the time I got to the sixth magazine, this had now become a popular show and everyone was crowding round to see just how many mags this could go on for. The Sergeant Major didn't know whether to laugh or cry as I kept going until I had fired nine full magazines into the tattered remains of the targets. Memorable.
I was trained on the Bren in the South African Defence Force in 1980, and the weapons we had were very tired. I recall most were 1942 versions converted to 7.62 and we only seemed to use the 20 round mag which were interchangeable with our FN/R4 assault rifles. I recall the folding cocking handle and the dial type sight, but most of all I recall the horror that trained us and to this day whenever I see a Bren I shudder in dismay. The irony is that when we deployed to South West Africa we were issued with the FN-MAG.
If the U.S. Army's automatic rifle in WWII was the BAR, then shouldn't the British automatic rifle be called the PUB and not the Bren?
Pure, and Unabashedly British rifle.
Yup, that works for me.
@@DH-xw6jp Except the BrEN was Czech and the SLR Belgian....
@@cptreech thanks for ruining the joke. [Thumbs up]
- at the risk of not getting the joke ;-)...
The BAR was a one-man weapon?
If riflemen in the squad carried magazines for the BAR, I retract the next statement.
The BREN was a crew-served weapon, that could in a pinch be used by one man, if strong enough to carry a useful load of ammunition.
Other riflemen in the section carried Bren magazines, and for the 7.62mm versions could swap magazines.
A TV series where the BAR and Bren are compared as if the Bren was a BAR (fired from the hip) tends not to reference the different uses the weapons were put to.
@@stevetheduck1425 you meant the old History Channel show with the late R.Lee Ermy?
I think indian army too used bren 7.62mm nato for long term and we even had it in national cadet corps for stripping and assembly
as i remember some of the 7.62 brens got given to the indian army when the british army bind them. also the indian army converted a lot of them themselves.
@@zoiders Same as Australia 🇦🇺🐨🐨
Eyy fellow NCC cadet?
It's very accurate due to slow rate of fire..no wonder it was the best machine gun during ww2
@@zoiders ya maybe like a unlicensed version of L1A1
Small curiosity about the bren in the Italian army: we greatly appreciated this weapon so much that we decided to convert from .303 to 7.62 NATO which remained in service in the 60s, while it was replaced by the MG-42/59 also in 7, 62 NATO
- Okay, Bren is dope but we need something more modern, any ideas?
- MG-42... /59!
@Danish Tariq I'm fully aware of that, it was waaay ahead of it's time, no wonder it's still used by most of the west Europe's armies.
It was just a joke.
@Danish Tariq Not if you're using it as a light machine gun. Try charging across a field to assault a position while trailing a belt of ammo out of your gun and reloading that gun on the run.
@Danish Tariq Depends greatly on the role. THe FN Minimi is far closer to the BREN in function than the MG3 or M60. The BREN is an early squad automatic weapon, and far more were deployed per unit that the MG34 or MG42, because they served different purposes and different tactics. One is superior to the other in different situations, though the BREN has been supplanted by other models that are more effective in the roles the BREN typically served.
@@sill5876 India retired theirs.... in 2012. Officially. Some still in use for specialized roles apparently. This being said, they were not relying on WWII stocks but continued to build their own. Why? Because... it worked for the roles they used it for.
The best LMG ever imho. I found it reliable, accurate, light(ish) and liked having no belts trailing to catch on vegetation. Even better than the .303 version.
As a former L4 gunner, the magazine spring on the 30 round mag was too weak to enable full compatibility with the L1A1. Remember, it’s a gravity fed mag!
Edit! We used to pack the base plate with card from the 7.62 boxes to make it feed properly by adding additional tension to the spring.
interesting, I have no clue but couldn't someone just, well, stick a stronger spring in the magazines?
@@Deadbeatcow there is a
fal light machinegun.
It had a 30 round mag. Id imagine if the British army wanted 30 round mags. They would buy those.
Also i imagine if the spring tension is too high it wont feed into the Bren anymore.
@@Deadbeatcow the official policy was not to use the 30 round mags in the L1A1. Springs were not changed out to dissuade their use.
The guys who went to the Falklands brought a fair few Argentinian FN mags back for personal use to get round this.
@Dan Didnot
Why isnt it a Bren anymore?
Please explain?
@@MrEsszed Thank you.
Btw how many Brens where there a platoon?
How many regiments used Brens?
Did some go to GPMGs exclusively?
Just something to add, while these were only sold to a few nations they were however found in a lot of military aid packages, notably Nepal during their civil war, which is the only time I have got up close with them. you also see Sri Lankans with them
Australia did conversions at Lithgow, producing L4A4 LMG that remained in service until ca 2000
We had them in our battalion, lot of fun, they had a much smaller beaten zone than the M60. You could empty a whole mag into a figure 11 target at 100m easily.
My grandfather carried one in Malaya in the late 50s before they were issued M60s for his Vietnam deployment.
@@dentonw6ir0qf15 Went to Malaysia in 1986. There was a jungle warfare school set up by the British at a place called Pulada, they had a good live fire range there. Got sick of shooting dart targets so I emptied a mag on the Bren into a nearby dam just for fun at probably 300-350m range. It was a night shoot and we were using illumination flares from a 84mm Carl Gustov recoiles rifle. Every round went smacking into the dam. Fucking thing was like a sniper machine gun lol
The worst Australian inovation was brazing the Bren bipod onto the mag58 afyer the mags bipod broke. The bren bipod were heavy, wouldnt lock up, couldnt be pushed into and the feet had to be hoochie corded up so they wouldn't fall off.
Lithgow 'tried'.
Every L4A4 I encountered in Oz was a Brit conversion.
WAY back in the early 1950s, when a "NATO" cartridge was being argued about, moves were already afoot to "update the BREN to this new round.
The design drawings I have seen described it as being in "Calibre .300" (pre. spec finalization and standardization of the ammo designation) and showing it as using FAL (small lip) magazines. Interestingly, the Seth Efricans had quite a few 7.62mm Brens in the field at one time. These also used the twenty-round FAL-type magazine as used, obviously, on their FALs (R1).
In recent years, due to dwindling supplies of good .303 ammo, some hardy souls have tried conversions to 7.62 x 54R, using .303 barrels, with the chamber opened out to 7.62 x 54R size, resulting an fired cases coming out with a weird "double neck". Results appear to have varied according to the skills and enthusiasm of the "developer".
When I was in the Australian Army back in the '90's we had a couple in the back of the armory that would be trotted out for the Australian Army Skill at Arms Meet. They still shot laser straight after all those years.
Can't wait for the April 1 crossover with Brandon Herrera's Kalashnibren. Please make this happen.
Negotiating Elbonias latest GPMG purchase.
At first i didn't like the idea of a crossover, but for a April 1 I would totally accept this. That would be amazing.🤣
Perfect idea
Especially if he plays it completely straight, with a fully-fabricated history for the weapon and then right at the end Brandon walks in asks "How'd you get in here?" and Ian just runs.
Hamilton now THAT would be hilarious 🤣
A friend of mine used one in the First Gulf War. As an armoured ambulance driver, his unit was equipped with the SLR and ‘Bren’ instead of the SA80 and newer LMG.
The medics (RAMC) would have had SMG's, Officers BAP's, the "others" (RCT, Catering Corps, REME, etc) would have had SLR's. I'm not sure what the AGC carried - sharpened pencils, I think! :)
Of course, they all became RLC and everyone under the rank of Major got the SA80 shortly after
@@cmck472 - My friend was RCT (and later RLC) he was issued an SLR, and the squad also carried a ‘Bren’ LMG.
I was in the navy during Op Granby, and even though I had been trained on the SLR in basic training, and had received conversion training to the SA80, as part of the QRF I used SMG and BAP.
@@cmck472 what was your personal weapon then Mac?
We had these in the Aussie army. We dragged them out, dusted them off and put a few mags through them now and then just for a bit of fun. Hes right about the mags. The SLR L1A1 took the Bren mags, tho the spring was a bit weaker.
Were they used in Vietnam by the diggers??
@@dansmith9724 Not sure, but to hazard a guess I'd say yes we would have until adequate supplies of the belt fed GPMG M60 became available.
@@dansmith9724 they were initially. They were also used Malaya and Borneo in 7.62 NATO
@@dansmith9724 Mates dad was with regular soldier with 5RAR. When I asked him about the Bren he said they preferred the L4 Bren over the version of the L1A1 SLR. As for Vietnam, when they deployed in 1966 they didn't take the Brens or the L2A1s, having being equiped with the M60 at section level well before deploying. Digression time..... The actual adoption of the M60 was controversial. The diggers preference for a belt fed GPMG was the ever reliable L7/MAG 58 which the Australian Army had experience with in Borneo and Malaya. The M60 was only adopted as a logistic expediency by the CDF after a visit to the US prior to committing the Australian Task Force to Vietnam. This was done without any trial process. Oddly enough the MAG58 replaced the M60 in the 1990s. Everyone I served with (and every Vietnam era digger I've met) who used both guns always rates the MAG58 over the M60 despite its weight/balance.
@@SnoopReddogg interesting, so they were right from the start with the mag58
We still had them during Desert Shield/Storm/Sabre (or if being correct!) Operation Granby. But we were not front line troops because we were logistics and only 3 miles behind the front!
I bet the infantry with their new poxy l86a1 lsw,s would have happily swapped with you !
I remember seeing these in an RAF armoury as late as 1992.
Ian the Bren was also extensively used by the SADF, (the South African Defence Force) as the section automatic/light machine gun, in the infantry bats. Until larger numbers of the FN MAG became more available. These were also conversions of mainly Mk 2 guns and some Mk1* guns. The gunners used to carry all their ammo in 20 round FN R1 mags. Until they got tooling from the Rhodesians for the 30 round mags. 500 rounds in 20 round mags is quite a load, so that why most of the gunners selected were beefy farm boys. The Bren was popular with its two man crews, and a lot of the gunners readily became the section sharpshooter, as the Bren is the most accurate of all light machine guns, and can fire selective single shots.
Lol this was my main vehicle weapon in 1991 for the gulf war, along with my SLR personal weapon. Brilliant bit of kit, reliable, simple to use and maintain.
What units were still using SLRs during the Gulf War?
@@minuteman4199 A lot of the Signals units still had them. Mainly because the MOD were slow getting everyone trained on the SA80 along with getting them out to the units. As the signals are not one of the main teeth arms we got second best stuff
@@minuteman4199 someone else above also says they were an ambulance unit and still had SLRs and Brens.
Bren Guns as vehicle weapons seems odd...
@@ScottKenny1978 the most produced armoured vehicle of all time was the Bren Gun Carrier of WW2
High quality piece of kit- very well engineered, superb build quality- hewn from granite. Used the L4 in the reserves until the early 90's. Superbly accurate- which was one reason it was popular in Northern Ireland.
Just a small point Mr Jesus Sir as an ex British Soldier L1A1's were only referred to as " SLR's " , we never mentioned FAL when serving :) Mainly because we regarded the SLR as superior to the original Belgian Rifle , the SLR was certainly more accurate :)
Same with the Aussies, I always find it strange when I hear people calling the SLR’s a FAL
In the Canadian army it was usually referred to as "rifle" since it was the only one is service at the time this didn't cause any confusion. Alternatively it was referred to as an FN.
@@minuteman4199 Well that's probably because Canadians are more influenced by the US who tend to get most facts about Britain wrong ........
Gods rifle. Capable of penetrating a T62 and hitting a gnats balls at a thousand yards.
@@PhilipKerry Canada has been independent of Great Britain for less than 39 years. You can't blame us for training failures on something we didn't supply and they used for years before that. Nor can you justify the idea that we would call anything just "the rifle." But no, now even Canada is America's fault. Such a pity after you started out so well.
Australia also had a bunch of L4A4s. They were in inventory into the early 1990s.
Issued to "non-infantry" units. When I was with a Field Workshop unit, we had several. They were the "fire-support" weapon for the Recovery Mechanics and were standard equipment for their big recovery / tow trucks. The idea was that a vehicle recovery team doing their thing makes an enticing target, so there was a need for some added "wallop" for the protection party, i.e., everyone a the scene who was not intimately involved with hitching and hauling the disabled vehicle.
We also used the L4A4s as "competition guns in service shooting. one of the early tricks learned was that the most efficient way to carrrry the L4A4 whilst running as a team / section, was in "stretcher" mode. With one soldier grasping the end of the barrel and a second by the wrist of the butt, you can move quite quickly. If it is a "long" run, you can "pass the baton" at each end, on the fly to share the load around the other troops.
Sadly, all gone now.
The Bren really did have a long service life. You can see photos of this later variant in the Falklands war and I believe it was still used in combat right up to the 1st Gulf war by some units.
I used to know someone who was with the Royal Engineers in the first Gulf War, and he had a photo of himself carrying a Bren whilst he was out there.
I hope this series include the beltfed prototype ones
.762 Brens were used alongside L7s in Northern Ireland to give platoons more firepower in the wide open countryside
They did. I used one in '88 in Tyrone and my Regiment still had them in '91.
@@sticks5614 My grandfather carried one through Normandy, through Belgium to the end of the war.
It's impressive that the British Army kept them around for so long afterwards. I had no idea.
I was that soldier, with the L4A1 tabbing up hills down mountains
Very useful against a culvert bomb. I pity the poor squadies sent there to fight a war that could not be won. Even though a fair few of them were sadistic bastards that wanted to kill. The majority were just mercenaries out of school and with no options. Sad country the Uk.
@@elzorro7of9 I was a soldier in the Ulster Defence Regiment CGC and The Royal Irish Regiment CGC , I joined to protect my family friends and the community when our part time soldiers were out doing checkpoints and patrols the ordinary person could sleep safe in there beds , People say to me that there were no Roman Catholic soldiers which there were at the start but the Republicans killed them when they were at home , but lots of Roman Catholic soldiers in my Regiment wanted to put these terrorists behind bars I have survived numerous attempts on my life I even had to pack up and move house,
The last time I looked at the British Army we never recruited mercenaries, if you count the GURKA's mabe sort of
The majority of people in Northern Ireland want peace and stay in the union
This includes lots of Roman Catholics,
But you never hear things like that,
I have been on a culvert bomb the thing didn't detonate or I would not be here.
I was a gunner and carried the L4 many times , this was not a war but just a minority people who wanted to be the majority ,
I trained with these in the South African Infantry back in 1970 when we still had a number of the 7.62 Bren LMGs. They were soon supplanted by the FN LMGs which I really loved.
Yes, I recall those, they were conversions done at Lytellton to original Brens, they remained in service until approx. Early 80s.
I've heard that British armourers/quartermasters clung to the L4s for grim death, using all sorts of administrative tricks to keep hold of them. They were certainly used throughout the Northern Ireland 'Troubles' and in the Falklands War. IIRC, their last outing was the Gulf War in 1991.
We certainly had them in second line units such as mine up until at least 1990, probably longer.
I can remember carrying one on an exercise in 92-93. It was heavier than my usual SMG, I remember that
They did. I used one in '88 in Ulster and my Regiment still had them in '91. It was probably too accurate for a section weapon but I thought it was brilliant and even preferred it to my SLR which by the late '80's was on it's last legs.
We had L4A4s in use here in New Zealand in the 80's, we still operated the .303 Bren's until conversion to FN C9 LSW in 1987, I used the .303 Bren's on my Basic Training in 1986. And I am pretty sure the Australian Army used the L4s as well. Anyhow, very nostalgic for me, thanks and have a great week and month ahead
I remember carrying one in the early 90's. If I remember correctly the Mags wouldn't work in the SLR as the magazine spring was supposed to be weaker and caused feeding issues when inserted in the SLR. Oh and I remember on exercise once I jumped up and ran 20 meters and found that when I hit the ground I only had the yellow blank firing barrel in my hand and the rest of the LMG was 20 meters behind me.
been there done that! had to do the fekkin press ups too!
I love almost everything about all the effort they put into this.
Lining out the original numbers so they are still easy to read, highlighting the new size...
Plus the level of workmanship on the internal modifications...
My Dad used one of these...once, they were in the process of getting rid of them. He still waxes lyrical about it.
Lyttelton Engineering Works in South Africa did a similar conversion on SADF Brens, 1972-1976. The standard 20rd R1 (FAL) magazines were used and Rhodesia also manufactured 30rd magazines.
My dad carried one of these during his time in the Army. He loved it.
I fired a 7.62 BREN during a joint training exercise in Grafenwoehr. The L1A1 20 round magazine would feed the BREN but the 30 round BREN magazine had to weak of a spring to reliably feed the L1A1. It made the 30 round magazine much faster and easier to reload and, the BREN didn't need the spring due to the top feed magazine having gravity assist to the feed.
Autralian Army was stil using L4's in the late 80's. I used it in machine gun falling plate competions.
Yes, I also qualified in the Australian Army with the L4 in the mid 80's. Outstanding weapon!
My old unit didn't loose theirs till the early 90's when the minimi's came in.
@@thonger63 Having used 'em both as well (1984-2007), I know which one I prefer: the Minimi (also called the LMG in British service) just hasn't got the class of the Bren LMG (or the accuracy and stopping power). Plus we used to win our wars when we had the latter gun in service.
Replaced the L1A2 heavy barrel LMG . That's where the 30 round magazines came from. Fired the .303 and 7.62 Brens, the L1A2 LMG and the M60. Bren was soooooo good.
Falling plates with a machine gun? Tell me more, please!
Thanks for that really enjoyed it, when I did my basic training in 1986 the LMG was still in use and my reserve unit had them too. I seem to remember thinking it hilarious that I was carrying a modified 1944 bren gun. They were however reliable and accurate to shoot the pain of being a section LMG gunner though was the weight of all the extra ammo. The LSW that replaced it was lighter by far but stoppages all teh time once they got hot.
Happy days. Ex-REME soldier I remember using this many times - great weapon. Last time I fired it was MacGilligan Point ranges (Northern Ireland)~1991.
Ex REME too but the only thing I fired at Magilligan was a 30mm Rarden cannon mounted on a Fox - 1981. 2nd Tanks were very good and always saved a few rounds for us to have a go - I remember the cook even having a go!
I fired this a bit in the RAF in the 80/90's. Very accurate on the bipod. I recall the ruled out Bren Mk3 markings but they were not highlighted in white and the 7.62 marking didn't have an orange patch. Great video Ian.
Highlights on all markings are usually a museum/display thing, seems like.
There nothing more sexy than a 30 round Bren mag in a FAL.
I remember seeing some old pictures of Australian SAS with a cut down SLR, converted to select fire, 30 round Bren mag and a 40mm grenade launcher under slung, now that’s some firepower.
Those were likely L2A1s (known as C2A1s in the Canadian Armed forces) - heavy barrel L1s that the Australian Military used - they came with a proprietary 30 round magazine. The Argentines used a similar weapon called the FAP (Fusil Automático Pesado, or heavy automatic rifle) and it was found that the argentine Metric pattern FAL magazines would fit the Imperial Inch pattern L1A1s (but curiously not the other way around!).
That was not a Bren mag, the Aussies adopted the FN FAL heavy barrel version as well which they called the L2A1, this had straight 30 round mags that were designed to feed upwards
LMG mags were designed to work with gravity and could cause feed issues when used on SLR's - the concept of interchangeable mags was so the LMG gunner could use any 7.62mm mags the section carried
I believe both of you, in that case the notes next to the picture were incorrect, understandable, it was a British book.
Edit: typed in “Australian SAS FN FAL” into google images and the very same pictures I remember from 20 years ago came up, looks like we’re both right, and they used both types of mags.
Search for the article: “When Government Issue Wasn’t Enough: The Australian “B*tch” Variant of the SLR”
@@mitchfromtheinternet297 The British did not use an HBAR version of the SLR (or FAL) as a section level LMG and retained the modified BREN for that role (IIRC only for light infantry forces such as the Royal marine Commandos etc). So yes a British person who did not appreciate the use of the L2 or C2 would look at the mag and assume it was an L4 Bren Gun mag. This British person (read 'nerd') knows better ;)
It was called the 'Bitch' and was a popular field conversion used by the Australian SAS in the jungles of Vietnam.
It is a very unique and pretty nice looking machine gun. Just by the design and material that were used it's obvious that a lot of work went into making and then converting it.
I read the thumbnail as 'LA Bren' and thought Ian had found the best french machine gun..
The Royal Marines had one extra man per section. They had an LMG and a GPMG in each section.i used LMG mags in the SLR and didn"t have any feed issues. An odd thing with them was the recoil. Or rather lack thereof. When firing prone using the bipod, it tended to drag the firer forward. When on automatic. Another thing was when the barrelbsecuring latch got worn. It could undo. So when the firer grabbed the carrying handle. Sometimes the barrel was the only thing that he moved with. Having to go back for the rest of the gun! Easy to use and very reliable. Thank you for this excellent presentation.
About that red stamp.
As it is broadly known, privates of every army in the world can be divided in two groups. Very dumb but not so strong, and very dumb and also very strong)
Old Army saying, " if doesn't fit, get a bigger hammer "
Righto Ian. Nice series on the Bren. Thanks.
Not to forget the L4 continued in service after the FN MAG was introduced. Apparently the Paras preferred the Bren as it was lighter, there are pictures of the paras using them during the Falklands conflict
Royal Marines, Mountain and Arctic Warfare Cadre, Royal Engineers plus other support services had the LMG (Brit name for the bren in 7.62mm), the paras had the FN MAG (more dakka) as did the army infantry Bn's
I was stripping one down on annual camp at RAF Henlow as an Air Cadet in 1989.
@@TarnishUK RAF Henlow is still there as a logistics support base. Had to check as I haven’t lived in the area for 20 plus years.
There are also photos from the Falklands (I forget which reference book I saw them in) of some British troops using the 30 round 7.62 Bren magazines in their SLR's. I also recall hearing (& this may well be one of those urban myths) that doing this was iffy as they didn't feed well as having weaker springs for top down feeding & could have issues used "bottom up". I'm sure I've heard this debunked though.
@@contactacb I've heard the same, from people who did national service, they'd get the armourer to beef up the spring (this could have just been putting a new spring in tbh) considering the L1A1 only had semi, i think they'd be ok.
Apparently one other 'trick' involved a matchbook and the sear.. ;)
I was trained as a MAG58 gunner when I was a conscript in 1972 for the SADF. I was during the South West African border war, issued with a 7.62 Bren gun with my 3 months border service. The Bren was changed in South Africa from .303 to 7.62. The differences are not as noticeable as the one in the video. We used 7.62 R1 20 rounds of magazines and my no 2 did carry the second barrel.
The Apartheid government was under sanctions so their 7.62 NATO Brens are different from the Bren 7.62 NATO Brens.
The L4 was designed by FN for the British while the South African Bren were old WW2 Brens modified to fire7.62 NATO and take existing R1 FN Fal mags.
I managed to pick up a couple of L4A4 mags for my RRA LAR8. They were a little crusty but cleaned up nicely. Had to send one back for replacement because the ribbon follower spring was broken in two places. Actually just took a picture attached to an email and sent it to Sarco and they sent the replacement w/o asking for the old mag back. Good customer service.
I loved these things!.. It was my job as Gunner back in the day. The 30 round flat spring mags needed gravity to assist feeding. And wouldn't work on the SLR/FAL. Vice versa the 20s worked fine. We didn't bother with the spare barrel on the ranges. With it's slower rate of fire overheating wasn't a major problem. A single barrel is good for 1200 rounds before it runs into gas stoppages and the odd runaway... Thanks for the Vid!
Thanks Ian, I don't think I've seen anyone else do a look over the 7.62mm version before. I used it heavily during my time in the British army and it was a highly effective weapon indeed and with a good gun crew could put down very (very) accurate fire for as long as they could keep feeding it mags and barrels. Was prone to having the occasional runaway if the barrels were not swapped out.
I have to disagree on your comment about the navy side using it more than the army as it was the standard issue section LMG for all non-teeth arms in the army, and there were a lot of us! IIRC, the RM used it in the Falklands due to it's light weight (unless it was you carrying it that is!).
Finally saw the end of it's service in 1993 when it was finally replaced in our unit with the SA80/LSW. And yes, the SA80 really did take that long to roll out to the regular amry!
The Indian army still uses the 1B Bren gun in pintle mounts of vehicles, as well as as an LMG. It's the 7.62 NATO version. Although it is being replaced by FN MAG, the troops had high praise for it during the Kargil conflict, specially it's reliability, magazines and relative light weight. It is usually the gun mounted in vehicles in yellow or green zones i.e where security needs to be high, although the chances of a conflict is pretty low
@ Jan
The Indian license produced MAG has been in use since the late 1960s as a GPMG/MMG. The .303 /7.62 Bren, also license produced in India is used as a LMG by the Indian army and security forces since the 1940s.
Though, from the late 1980s the 7.62mm Bren was in large part replaced by the INSAS 5.56mm mag fed LMG .
Recently, the Indian Army has started inducting the 7.62mm NEGEV in place of the INSAS LMG .
There is also an Indian designed 7.62mm belt fed LMG derived from the MAG. However, its induction status by any of the Indian forces is not known.
Carried one of these up to 1993 in the Australian Army. Loved using the 30round magazines in the L1A1. Put a carefully bent paper clip in behind the sear and the L1A1 became full auto. Loads of fun.
Had to make sure you removed the "mod" before handing back to the QM!
Used these in Northern Ireland as the search team gunner and found out the LMG MAG didn’t work on the SLR ( L1A1 ) as the spring wasn’t strong enough to push the rounds up, it was a weaker spring than what we had in the rifle mags. You could use the in an emergency but only get about 10-15 rounds fired before you got stoppages from rounds not feeding. I know because I’ve done it.
I found the exact opposite. If you read " A Battle Is FoughtTo Be Won" you'll find that this was tested out by The Para Regt on the way to The Falklands. The LMG mag worked perfectly in all tests !
@@clivedunning4317 lots of things work well in tests, used in the field by the soldiers that carry them is often a better 'test'. I'm sure the troops don't like it that way if it costs them, hell my Steyr Aug wouldnt function after an O course....stuffed if i know how it passed any tests all i did was take it through muddy water. Show me a conflict where there isn't at least some sort of moisture or debris ingress into a soldiers carried weapon. Stop shooting at me while i clean my rifle will you FFS...
One of the best light MGs. Thanks for the last BREN update.
Known as the LMG we had these well into the late eighties early nineties in the case of vehicle mountings. Excellent gun ironically too accurate
There were some L4's in both Australia and South Africa. You can see one being used in the film "Ses Soldate" (1974).
New Zealand also used the L4A2.
Good Day All : Where were the original Bren Guns manufactured ? Was it in Toronto Ontario ? Or was it in the French speaking province of Quebec ? The lee Infields and Stens were made just down the road from my house on Lakeshore blvd here in Toronto . I just visited that building last week . A few years ago I happened to meet the daughter of the famous "BREN GUN RONNIE" ( Veronica Foster ) . Remember her ? She was the famous machine shop girl at the Bren Gun factory that pumped out so many Brens. When I met her , she happily smiled and said that she also owned her own Bren Gun . Good for her ! ! !
Was never refered to as Bren or L4 by squaddies, was always called "the LMG". Loved firing it as it was easy to use and very accurate.
Yep - SLR, SMG, LMG and GPMG! ( + 9mil Browning )
Sorry - I called it a Bren even when I was told it should be called the LMG, but then again I called the L1A1 a gat.
I got hit across the head when I called it a bren
@@markshepherd3632 Like getting told off for saying gun instead of rifle - so for badness we would call it a Bondook instead!
@@Simon_Nonymous Gat:Thats what I called the SLR in the 70's with 2nd Bn Queens Regiment. Had the LMG at Cardenas OP in Belize in 1976
I was not infantry. My unit had one LMG and I was nominated gunner/carrier.
I was taught the LMG early on in my career 1968, we had two old Cpls who had broken their service then rejoined to qualify for their 22 year pension. Both had been Grenadier Guardsmen in the Guards Armored Division in WW II. Two very old soldiers, who drilled the LMG and earlier Bren into us. Safety and ability to strip and reassemble where their priorities. We learned all the possible stoppages, which apart from first couple of magazines I never saw in my time as gunner.
My unit received a New converted LMG, in a wooden box and I had the job of cleaning off the heavy protective grease before use. On the range I expireanced a dozen or so stoppages on my LMG. Most on first mag then only a couple on second mag, never missed a beat after that. Older troops explained that new guns needed Breaking in, my LMG did and was perfection after its initial shoot.
My unit was equipped with GPMG, and their gunners envied me as I envied their modern replacement for my Old LMG.
John
I liked Ian's definition of peacetime Britain 1958 to 1960. Post 1945 - the Malayan Emergency, the Cyprus Crisis, Suez, Mau Mau Uprising, Indonesian Confrontation, the Radfan, Aden Withdrawal, the confrontation with Iraq over Kuwait. There's probably a couple others. Am leaving out anything after 1969.
Only that 1968 was the only year in the 20th Century that a Britsh Serviceman didn't die in action.
@@51WCDodge Thats an amazing fact and one a lot of people fail to comprehend the they comment about the postwar 'peacetime' UK military.
1950...Korea
Thanks Ian , I’ve always wanted to know more about this rare lmg , it was in service with the Australian army for some time but information is pretty scarce
By Admiralty you mean the Royal Marine Cdo's. Nice piece of kit!
I carried one on a NI tour in 1987 as section gunner. A superbly accurate LMG and a joy to shoot.
Yup that is what we had mid 80’s in the army as an area, airbase bunker imported bridges, security unit
Dutch army. Van Heutz 433 IBC
I loved that lmg I carried the L4 in Northern Ireland in the 80's
I love that so much of the late 50s "calm years" were around the time my parents fell in love and I was born. I view this time with great affection.
Not so calm in Malaya, or Kenya, or Cyprus, or Suez, or, to get away from the Empire/Commonwealth, Hungary.
The 7.62 Bren (L4A4)was also used in Australian service . They also used the straight 30 round magazine from the SLR .
I assume they were local conversions of the Lithgow manufactured guns but I'm not sure about that.
I still like the idea of a magazine-fed SAW for a lot of situations. The Bren seems to be one of those older designs that would probably be just fine on a modern battlefield.
I trained with the Bren LMG in 1966 and continued to qualify with it until 1970. It was an excellent weapon.
Not exactly a peaceful period in the UK's history it covers the Mau Mau Uprising in Kenya, the Cyprus Emergency, and the Suez Crisis.
End of the Malayan Emergency, Borneo, etc.
And the falklands
Northern Ireland
The main period is 1956 when the L4 Brens came into service to 1961 when the L7, the Gimpy we know and love, was adopted.
Yes, L4s hung around as the light automatic weapon for sections and on certain vehicles, it continued in use well into the 1990s because of the well known L86; however its heyday as the primary automatic weapon of the infantry was in that five year period before Enfield could finish its work on converting the FN MAG and, to a lesser extent, until 1968 when enough L7 GPMGs could be produced to fulfil requirements.
Incidentally the 1968 date coincides with the withdrawal of the BESA and Vickers machine guns.
Many years ago I visited the Pattern Room when it was at the Royal Small Arms Factory in Nottingham. Not only was I staggered at the sheer number of patterns held, but the incredible number of different variations of Bren Guns they had on this one long huge table as you walked into the main room. I don't think I realised just how many variants, some purely experimental, there were.
Dog: "What the fuck is that"?.
Mickey: "it's me Bren gun".
-Lock stock and two smoking barrels-1998.
Yep, never gets old that.
@@Mach1048 as soon as I saw the thumbnail, that's what was in my head.
That's not a gun....
_"I don't believe this !, can everyone just stop getting shot ?"_
I carried the South African equivalent in 1978 -79 in South West Africa and my subsequent service in the Reserve force till 1989. We still tired the spare barrel as well.
astounding the amount of guns there are on this earth. theres literally no end to the different types of guns that have been invented since gunpowder was invented
edit: thanks for the likes. confused on how this turned into a philosophy lesson over the use of a word but I’m intrigued. also Ian will never run out of material and I love it
And the globalists want to destroy them all so they may reign with impunity.
@@rodgerjohnson3375 We should All head your words!
Actually I took us 600 years after the invention of gunpowder to invent the first gun. Basically used purely for fireworks. Isn't that a crazy fact
@@rodgerjohnson3375 lol, that's ridiculous. The world isn't run by some secret cabal. It's mostly a bunch of morons and rich people, throwing the boat one way or the other, refusing to admit the world is mostly rudderless.
The people in charge who stomp on our faces are largely really into guns, so they won't go away. Mercer has one of the largest gun collections in america
_Literally._ You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
You mentioned this was sold to 4 countries. In 1974 I was serving in the First commando regiment in Australia. I used the 7.62 BREN on a number of occasions. I don't know how many were acquired by the Australian military. However it was definitely used in some way by Australia. I found it reliable.
I'm a simple kinda guy .. I see Bren, I click
Ian's content is first class and fascinating, as always - blessed are the disciples of Gun Jesus, for his knowledge and goodness knows no bounds ;-)
Same as many have commented. We had a lot of LMGs with the 1944/45 stamps lined out. Converted to 7.62. Really accurate weapon. Right out to 600 yards+ . Used by all the support arms into early 90s including Gulf One
When I was using these and the SLR during my British Army service, we were told not to use the LMG mags on the SLR as the spring was weaker, being used in the vertical (gravity) feed on the LMG, meaning the spring was longer and weaker, not sure how true this was as some of my comrades did use these mags on their rifles?
That's actually not true as these use standart 30 round fal mags
A fantastic weapon that I used often and successfully. But using the L4 magazine on the L1 A1 (SLR) rifle often caused problems as the spring in the 30 round mag was often too weak to push the 30 rounds up into the rifle whereas on the L4 (Bren) they also had gravity to assist their feeding into the gun. But rifle mags worked perfectly on the LMGs.
Wonder how many Squaddies were naughty and used L4 mags in their SLR's with the matchstick trick 😂
Susssshhhhhh! You will get me in the crap :-)
Surprisingly accurate. My battalion used to pull these, plus the owen and sten, out occasionally for fun shoots.
"This is a very British sort of nomenclature convention"
yeah, can't argue with that
R Sigs had these as the LMG in the 70's... fun gun to fire and I really liked it.
When you come under fire and have to hit the deck you will quickly realize that fitting the longer bren mag to your FN Fal was a really bad idea
Bren mag jammed in SLR as it was gravity fed in lmg. Needed two springs in mag to push up rounds in SLR. Aussie also had a bigger SLR mag which didn't jam.
Do you know about the Bren MKII converted in 7.62NATO by Breda, and used in Italy by the Corpo delle Guardie di Pubblica Sicurezza and later by the Police? They were removed from the armouries in recent years.
This is the Bren I remember
Couple of things. My unit had LMG's and we loved them. We did everything besides mutiny to keep them in preference to the bloody awful LSW. It was a sad sad day when finally we had done all we could to obstruct the removal of the LMG. I still have a split case extractor from the kit. Loved the LMG and I would still have one as preference to any belt fed faster firing weapon system. You could plink away with an LMG and watch the fall of shot better, adjust as necessary onto the target and then just bounce the gun in your shoulder to give a lovely three round burst.. Accurate as hell and with the 7.62 a great way to demolish walls and make a door in houses..
We Brits like to get our money’s worth out of our kit
See also the Vickers Maxim
Issued to some Australian Army units in the 1970s. 1 X tungstan barrel and no spare.
The US us still issuing M2 Brownings.
So by that account Britian will be using the L85's till 2221 to get their money worth.
@@johnsegertsons2143 Doesn’t sound like a problem. Slug throwers for the win!
@@maxkennedy8075 eh whatever, bull pups are trash.
The Bren is such a remarkable pieace of firearm and history! It's a very well made gun that lived through WWll and served well after the fall of the .303 brit cartridge! I really love the Bren and I love even more the ZB, the gun the Brenm was based on; NICE video as always Ian! I like to study history through weapons and I most certainly learnt something new today!
This model was used by Indian army for ages
And the Irish army
And the British army.
Still some units are using it now it's been phased out and imi Negev 7.62 and ofb made FN mag are replacing these lmg.
Used by Royal Malaysian Police alongside Johnson M1941 during insurgency days.
@@Raghav_the_2
There are thousands of them in the Irish army stores and most have never even been taken out of the wax paper wrapping
I have fired this excellent weapon in competition in 1974 during my junior army service in the LMG Pairs Cup Match at Ash Ranges. We came in runners-up overall but first in the junior army. Alas my partner in that match was killed in a car accident shortly thereafter, RIP Mick. The L4 LMG was a superb reliable and accurate weapon system, almost too accurate to be a good LMG. Needless to say I hold this old bundook in very high regard!
South Africa did the same with their Brens
We in the old SADF were still using the 7.62 Bren well into the 80s.
That was the ''BREN'' we had in Cadets. We trained on an old 303 model, deactivated of course, then we'd use 7,62 mm LMG for range days. I really loved that gun , you can walk the rounds onto the target , then that's it , just keep putting round after round on top of each other.