American Rifles & Shotguns of World War 1 I THE GREAT WAR Special feat. C&Rsenal
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- Опубліковано 14 вер 2018
- Othais from C&Rsenal tells Indy all about American rifles and shotguns from World War 1.
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Videos: British Pathé
Pictures: Mostly Picture Alliance
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Literature (excerpt):
Gilbert, Martin. The First World War. A Complete History, Holt Paperbacks, 2004.
Hart, Peter. The Great War. A Combat History of the First World War, Oxford University Press, 2013.
Hart, Peter. The Great War. 1914-1918, Profile Books, 2013.
Stone, Norman. World War One. A Short History, Penguin, 2008.
Keegan, John. The First World War, Vintage, 2000.
Hastings, Max. Catastrophe 1914. Europe Goes To War, Knopf, 2013.
Hirschfeld, Gerhard. Enzyklopädie Erster Weltkrieg, Schöningh Paderborn, 2004
Michalka, Wolfgang. Der Erste Weltkrieg. Wirkung, Wahrnehmung, Analyse, Seehamer Verlag GmbH, 2000
Leonhard, Jörn. Die Büchse der Pandora: Geschichte des Ersten Weltkrieges, C.H. Beck, 2014
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"Hold on guys. I have to dry out my shotgun ammo before we attack."
A Physics Professor and then the brass shell was born
Just dry them in the fire.
*BLOWDRIES SHOTGUN SHELLS WITH TRENCH RAIDING INTENT*
Paper hulls were were pretty much the standard up until plastic hulls first appeared in the 1960s.
*loads brass shotgun shells*
“Give us a semi-auto”
“Here’s a bolt action”
Lmao, reminds me of the time when I was told bring 2 pencils but I brought 1 ballpen
Look, everyone gets a bolt action, and everyone is gonna damn well like it!
BAR meets an M14?? I'm so confused...
@Sean
Don't tell the marines that, they'll actually try it!
@@MrPaul-bn9cl ppl llll
You mean bring two bolt actions but you brought an auto loader
Interesting to hear that the shotguns were so unpopular in WWI.
As the Europeans would say: "Completely uncivilized"
@Evolved Dragon They have their time and place. The Great War was not it.
It wasn’t the guns themselves, but the ammo: the shot shells were made out of paper, so in the wet trenches, yeah, not so effective.
Who wants a shotgun when u got a KAR, and dual pistols
@@cdeezy2718 and grenades, loads of grenades!
I briefly owned a pattern 14 in Afghanistan. It was found by one of the teams and kept as a curiosity. The theory is that it was a surplus weapon given to the Afghan army by the British and found its way into a farmer/militant’s hands where it was captured. As it was still in working order, I wasn’t allowed to bring it home. As far as I know, it’s floating somewhere around Bagram airfield today...
That's a damn shame man, we couldn't even take knives home when I was there. I hate how soft the U.S is getting/ has gotten. Especially here in NY it seems like they want to ban everything. What happened to freedom of choice.
Note: The people who like the Krag were not forced to use it in a War.
Snow White i can’t imagine the fouling from hand loading in the trenches
I like it simply from a sportsman's perspective
What about the soldiers in the Spanish-American War?
@@semperfi1587 I have heard stories of troops Ditching krags for Spanish rifles but I can't find sources
@@angrynoodle5572 I heard that too, though I also heard that they didn't care for the mauser's recoil.
Germans: “trench guns are illegal in warfare and are cruel weapons”
America: shame
To be fair, getting hit by 00 buck at long range is never going to kill someone, but it is going maim and cause undue harm and wounding.
From that perspective I can understand the Germans saying they're cruel weapons. But I also agree with the US war department when they said the wounding is no different than shrapnel.
@@planescaped In my opinion, the Germans had forfeited the moral high ground when they used poison gas.
Brandon Korner well said
Sans let me introduce my ... FLAMMENWERFER!
@@adolfgaming1761 Flammenwerfer, a classic. It werfs the Flammen. :D
I had a 1917 Remington/Enfield, USMC. it was a beautiful, family heirloom with unit stamps. Several years ago it was stolen by meth-head trash along with my 1950's, pump action, 22 and never recovered. Probably sold for drug money. what a waste...
Ouch, that is a tragedy.
Heartbreaking
Heartbreaking, on so many levels.,
Touching story.
I hope the meth took his life.
Speaking of those combat shotguns, those things were so popular here that it left a lasting impression on our military. Most of our security guards use either modernised versions or the exact same shotgun.
EDIT: from the Philippines.
Juicy Narwal where is “here?”
General_Fratton ah sorry forgot to mention, the security business is very big here in the Philippines, and nearly every company uses those shotguns (either modernised or exact same model) with their guards or very rarely an AR gun.
jake jones no but my point is that us Filipinos liked it so much, that even decades after the Americans left, there is still widespread use despite the fact it comes from WWI.
Seems agreeable, I saw multiple guards with those shotguns guarding a man adding cash into an ATM
The shotgun was the gun that really won the west!
Inaccutate over 1400 yards. You cant hardly SEE that far in the first place!
They were using vickers guns and other machine guns to fire a mile or more, sometimes pointing the barrels at extreme angles so the bullets rained down in an area to deny ground to the enemy. At the end of the day these were not meant to be used to kill individuals at that range. You've got to imagine a line of hundreds of guys with their sights set at a single range firing all at once at targets very far away. It's primarily going to keep German heads down while mortars and artillery find their range
“So were goin’ into a muddy rainy terrain?”
“Yes”
“With paper cartridges?”
“Yes?”
“Cool thanks, can i sign my death certificate?”
“Yes”
@Total not a hecker indeed
One of those curious facts: When the British lost much of their equipment at Dunkirk the US sent them M1917 Enfield from US war reserves, ultimately somewhere near 1 million. Because of the difference in caliber they were issued to the Home Guard, freeing up .303 rifles for more pressing needs, becoming the Home Guard's primary long arm. This also contributed to those famous photos of US recruits drilling with dummy rifles until new production replaced the war reserves.
We also supplied them with lots of Thompsons and 1911s too
They dumped those rifles into the Atlantic after the war. Thats gratitude for you...
@@teufelhund4921 Well they were obsolete and unneeded.
Couldve been sold to the civilian populace instead i suppose
@William Wykoff No. I gave a pretty clear, rational reason.
14:57 'Now in terms of long-arms we are out of rifles'. Me, looking behind him says, really?
Paper cartridges.
In trench warfare.
*stares*
I'm guessing that the swearing from people issued paper cartridges was audible from space. That is windows on a submarine level stupid.
After watching so many episodes of the Great War series it's pretty universal that the decision-makers in WW1 were drooling dipshits.
Noo... Windows in a submarine can have some utilities. Copying a typical phrase from my country, it's like a car horn... In an aeroplane
There are windows on a submarine that are universal still to today since they're called periscopes (they're also mirrored as well).
I mean it's far from the first dumb decision in WWI. Regardless, this is more of a military supply problem than a bad tactical choice or anything. They used what they had, and what they had was commercially produced paper cartridges. It probably was some army quartermaster arguing that "well they did fine in the last war, and they're easier to get!"
@@Flight_of_Icarus Yeah. In the 19th Century they used brass shells when shotguns were basically all break action. They were basically just giant shell casings crimped shut. When the pump actions came in is when you really saw paper cartridges become preferred. Why they didn't go with brass shells for the trench guns I don't really know, especially if they were getting a ton of complaints, other than they really weren't different from commercial guns and the action possibly couldn't handle the weight or rigidity of the brass. Or they just didn't care, which is likely in the military.
Maybe most don’t but I have one of my great uncles personal war diary from ww1 and he was issued a shotgun and 1911 as a bugler. He liked it according to his diary. It could sweep a whole trench if he got the jump on them apparently. But before he was captured he tossed it away as he heard shotgun soldiers were killed and not captured. Whether that was true or not that is what he was told. He was given brass shells though as far as I remember from reading the diary as it’s been a while
Brass shells would be correct. It is true that ze Germans didn't like shotgunners. "Sweep the whole trench"? If granddad was a boss, it's not impossible.
BassicBear well he was a marksman with it before the war as my great uncles and grandfather also went on the poncho villa expedition and had to practice for horse to horse combat with them. Had to ride their horse all the way down from Hartford to Mexico which is ridiculous.
@@jimmym5262 sure
BassicBear that’s what I was told over the years that is. They were national guard so kinda got the cheap end of everything. From what i was told they stopped and trained along the way but took months. But that’s what I’ve been told. I wasn’t there watching in 1917.
He probably only spend a few weeks or months in pow camps.
I can’t believe that it’s almost over. One hundred years ago, the first of two of the biggest conflicts in history ended. And yet we still rember each man who fought to this day
Number of successful hits past 1,400 yards with incorrectly calibrated sight is equal to the number with a correctly calibrated sight.
"Once you know what you're talking about it's a bit pedantic"
A lesson for every internet argument where people are arguing over definitions.
I'm sad that this show will be over in November
That's when ww2 ended
Hey lol I meant ww1. 1 is right beside the 2!😂
Oh ok I didn't know that
Ah smh....
Opposite of the vets take
see folks what we have here is a simple shotgun with a point and click interface.
Considering that the standard German rifle had sights that were useless at less than 400 yards (?), the paper shotgun shell problem was just a minor SNAFU.
LOL Othais just gotta show off his Air-Service.
I have owned several P-17s and find the Remington version to be my favorite bolt gun. A little heavy as you noted but smooth,accurate and well made.
This episode actually is released on my birthday. Denna episod/video är faktiskt släppt på min födelsedag.
I love these cross over episodes that cover the specific weapons. Great job and keep them coming!
I never thought I'd be a gun guy, but I love these videos! Othias is really great too!
Hey Indy could you do WWI knives and trench clubs? Please
Zuove Lightning they did. It was a collaboration with inrangetv, it’s over on their channel.
I love Othias and I am glad this episode was so long, because I hope to eventually watch the unedited videos with him. I am from the South and I miss great fried chicken among other things. I appreciate Othias's nerdiness and great research. He's way better than Tales of the Gun. Anyone who loves peace but also physics and engineering cannot help but find military technology fascinating, so I appreciated his last remark.
Love the content and loads of information each video , keep it going ;)
I’ve been waiting on this! Thank you guys
Man I love the Winchester M1897
In 2120 are you going to start a WW3 show?
Hah lol I hope. I feel it would be more 2119 tho
As far as i know ww3 is gonna be the end due to slangin nukes at each other but i would hope so
Can't wait to hear about space force gunners complaining because they asked for full auto laser blasters, and were given bolt action laser blasters instead.
@@digi7altrauma792 with paper cartridges
I do not know with what weaponsWorld War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stone! ~ Albert Einstein
Excellent point about the paper cartridges!
Sgt. York actually carried a M1917 Enfield rifle into combat.....not the 1903 Springfield. In the famous Gary Cooper movie where he played Sgt. York it showed him using a 1903 and carrying a Luger.
Little late but why a Luger?
@@harrymichaels3877 also late but the reason I heard was because the studio had access to 9mm blanks but not .45 ACP blanks.
Hey I remember you said this would come! Glad to see it! Keep up the awesome work Indy and crew! You guys have put me ahead of my history class!😂
Thank you my own research into shotguns in WWI kept switching between they where great, they had major issues. glad to get real information.
Moral of the story: keep your ammo dry, load up with fresh out of the package stuff right b4 the assault & hope for the best...
your guys' intro always gives me chills, i dont know why... maybe its the tone of the music, or the footage? i dont know!
Great video 👍
16:29 - Pun intended?
ROFL! 🤣
6:02 “yo fr tho this rifle be straight bussin”
you forgot to mention that mauser sued springfield due to the rifle being so similar to the 1898, they won the case.
As far as I am aware the outbreak of the war prevented any payments to Mauser for copying their design.
We couldve sued them for a thousand different things. Luger for example depended on the Maxim toggle action. An American even funded Georg Mauser's early work. We even gave them the machinegun and the barbed wire.
Hmm, interesting point. I wonder if an infringement of patent was determined. Then the obligation to pay for the use of their patent.
Which leads us to where Germany as part of the post war reparations had to sign over patents to American Industry, thus cutting off revenue from patent royalties for Germany to use for reperations payments.
A whole new chapter to go into.
Actually they didn’t have to sue.. Springfield recognized they had infringed copyrights in three areas and sent notifications to Mauser .
A friendly negotiation ended up happening where Springfield paid a relatively small licensing fee.
@@ferdonandebull They sued over the spitzer pointed bullet. The US had documentation of their own pointed bullet research so the patent wasn't valid, but since the US confiscated the useless patent illegally, they had to pay up anyway.
The level of detail about heat and vibration and all this stuff that the average person (and clearly the average WWI General) never thinks about. Clearly a knowledgeable gun enthusiast w/o being a gun nutter. Very cool. :-)
❤we need that air force rifle in battlefield 1
Othais and Indy, you left out the US Model 1916 rifle - Remington and Westinghouse Mosin Nagant rifles in 7.62x54R. Fighting for the US did not end until 1919 - reference the Polar Bear Expedition into North Russia.
Daner Dog That's just a Russian rifle being produced by Winchester. It technically would be the same thing they'd cover in a video on Russia's weapons.
Andrei Valdez , actually they were made by Remington and Westinghouse. But, they were technically a US-issued rifle for the Polar Bears. Thanks!
Go to C&Rsenal's site, watch the *3* episodes on Mosins: Othais covers everything in depth on his channel, but his usual over an hour-long episodes aren't going to fly here as a guest shot [pun intended] on TGW... ;-)
If you ever went hunting with paper shells on a rainy day, you know what he's talking about.
Got a jam after the fist shot and had to disassemble the shotgun to remove the other shells from the magazine and pieces of the shell from the barrel.
Never used them again.
I cannot overstate how relaxed and nice C&Rsenal is. Do check them out.
I have shot the m17 and it is amazing you hit everything you aim at
BTW love the show!
Hey guys, awesome video as usual. I just wonder how long does it take to clean all of those guns and rifles ? I mean the properly cleaning (the leaky tube and the rest of the guns and rifles). :D
My fav is the springfield and some of my friends trained on it prior to the transitioning to the M1 Garand.
I know only about the Krag-Jorgensen because hackers seem to love using it in Battlefield V. It's kinda cool to learn more about it!
I remember watching this live. *:)*
Inrange have video on that made for the great war
Nice
Germans: Das ist too OP. Please Don't Use Shotguns in the battle. Ist inhumane.
Americans: Nope, Did you use Mustard Gas and Flamethrower?
germany: NIEN! Shotguns nicht gud
Entente: what about-
Germany: **kicks mustard gas and flamthrowers under the table**
America:(useing shotguns) Germany:UNFAIRRRR
also Germany:mp18 ment for clearing trench’s
The army that gave paper shotgun cartridges to it's troops for trench combat is the same army that would issue "Universal" Camouflage Pattern uniforms to its troops for desert combat three-quarters of a century later.
Yay!
Very late to the party, but I think if World War I continued into 1919, the problems with the shotgun shells would have probably been solved. Imagine how effective and devastating those would have been.
Weapons time
Why do i always read these comments of yours in Sean Connery's voice LOL
Mr BigCookie lol
The shotgun info was fascinating. It dismisses the conventional wisdom. Genuine research!
I wonder if Jeff Cooper knew about that Springfield M1903 air service. I say that, because it almost fits his description of what he wanted for a scout rifle... Almost.
Too heavy with that huge box mag of 25 rounds of 30-06. I think a standard Springfield 1903 fits closer to the bill.
Both 1903s variants are too heavy for a Scout rifle unless they are lightened significantly. Cooper specified max 3kg limit as the rifle was going to be carried a lot and shot very little by frontiersman, survivalist or military scout.
The Krag Jorgensen is one of my favourite rifle❤️
Jarod Farrant *Jørgensen ;)
Boom! C&Rsenal disproves another myth
Enjoying the show, I have a 10 gauge flare pistol made by Remington for use in WW1I really can’t find any information. I’ve contacted Remington and they really have nothing either. Can you maybe find more information on this.
My Buddy has his Grandfather"s Krag Jorgensen which he carried in France in the Great War. I believe his Grandfather was an MP and was either a reservist or a Pennsylvania National Guardsman and was in a support role. So some Krag's did make it to Europe. Great job guys!
Mps= 💩
Fun fact: I believe the Danish Sirius Patrol still use the M1917 (or a version of it) known as the M/53 on Greenland. 100 years after it's implementation.
Didn't they upgrade to more modern .308s? Like the Canadian rangers who recently ditched their Lee Enfields.
@@slamblamboozled1245 No those hardy Danes still retained their WW1 rifles. It still works perfectly for their need so why change it? The original rifles are still available in significant numbers, and parts are even still being manufactured for the US civilian market.
They are using mostly civilian. 30-06 hunting ammo, which is perhaps the most widely available hunting ammo in the world, so sourcing it is hardly a problem. And the tiny extra oomph of the .30-06 over the .308 is not exactly a bad thing to have, when the primary purpose of the gun is fending off polar bears and musk ox.
They do carry the modern Glock 20 pistol chambered in the very powerful 10mm auto cartridge though, which again is because of the polar bear issue.
My Grandfather carried a 30-40 Krag in WW1. He got to keep it but he had it sporterized in the 1930s.
Love the video, but why doesn’t the speaker ever tell us what the barrel length?
The complaints from the German regarding the use of the US use of shotguns wasn’t politically motivated. It was because of the wounds caused by buckshot, there are 8 .33 caliber pellets in each shell and in the days before x-rays it was extremely difficult for doctors to locate all the pellets.
its weird i got this gut feeling that indy is probably a real nice person
U.S. Army Ordinance continued to issue paper cartridges Calvary carbines throughout the Civil War, even though they already had access to carbines with brass or Gutta perch’s cartridges. Logic was not their strength.
What did left handed people use? The bolt on the right side of the rifle sounds clumsy to operate if you're a left.
My great grandfather wrote in his diary of carrying a karg in France. While on MP duty in the great war.
More of a out of the trenches question, but do you have any information on the Catalan volunteers for the French army? I ask because I've been living in Barcelona a few years and there is a fairly large monument in the Montjuic cemetery to them. It seems to have been allowed to remain in some form during the years of the Franco regime, despite the fact that it is now a small shire to the Catalan independence project, but is not a topic widely discussed in the books I've read. Of course the Catalans living in the French part of what in Spain they call Northern Catalonia obviously fought in the war like any other French citizens, but the suggestion seems to be that said Catalans wished to fight alongside their Catalan brother in arms and saw affirming their traditional connection to France and its identity as part of the development of the Catalan nation consciousness.
Not well noted in English, more remembered in Spanish and French history.
Springfield and Enfield have been beefing it out for the hearts of American service men since the 1860s lol
So the shotguns were very effective in trench warFare, but the ammunition jammed up a lot? How did the brass cased ones do? I’m asking because I want to know if it still had popularity...
Yes the weapon designers had their own limitations I read in a farewell to arms that the Austrians had something called the potato mashers it just had explosive in them filled with all forms of chips of metals even screws and bolts
aargh, where are the firing segments!!!
C&Rsenal youtube channel. :)
dude theyre common old bolt actions and a common pump shotgun, you can find plenty of videos of them firing and its not a big deal. this is about the history of them
The model 97 Winchester doesn't have a trigger disconnect so you can pump the whole tube in a few seconds
Same with the Remington Model 10, Winchester Model 12, and Ithaca M37. Most early pump shotguns were capable of slam fire.
What about rice? Soldiers in SE asia mightve stored their ammo in rice to keep it dry. Any reports of that? Might help explain how exactly they managed to keep rounds dry during periods of longer exposure.
The 1903 Springfield did have an issue you neglected to mention. During the making of the receiver and error was made that the heat treating was guessed at instead of measured. This made some 1903's burst when fired. There were at least 6 cases of this happening before the problem was fixed. There are certain serial numbers they suggest you should not fire because they have this issue.
I have a question maybe he mentioned it but i missed it, what about firing slugs out of the shotgun? Why didn't they fire slugs its lethal at close range and has stopping power that along with a bayonet seems pretty lethal close up, also no paper wrapping. With support from riflemen and a light gunner in a small storm trooper like squad, that seems lethal and efficient.
I cant wait for ww2 content
Mr Nidel and Crew what do you guys think about the 1939 novel Johnny Got His Gun based in World war 1. What was the closest situation in real life Joe Bonham faced?
Landmine has taking my sight taken my speech taken my hearing
I loved this episode. American guns were great. Shame the US couldn't make enough of them. Great job.
They made millions.
They were issued brass shelled rounds.
The British didn't design the 1917 or even the 1913/14. They actually took Springfield 1903 rifles, the physical rifles, and made as many of their desired changes as they could without actually having to really do any design work. They never 'designed it for modern manufacturing.' It already was, because it was an American designed rifle.
Not even close. The patern 13/14 were designed in the UK, the 1903 had nothing to do with it.
@@atfyoutubedivision955 It's documented dude. This is why the P13 is just a Springfield 1903 and only the 'requirements' implemented for the 'P13' were ones that you could unskillfully tack on to a 1903. Even the bend in the charging handle was lazy.
(Preps caps locked fury on the shotgun...pauses)...I will wait, in Othias I trust lol🤣
I have Seen the original bluprint of that gun
We gotta remember they woulda hadta waterproof the cartridges with what he had. Can u imagine what mighta happened if they decided use Shellac?
I truly do not understand Utube's subscribe policies? I've subscribed to yours and many other gunvideo channels but, have never received any kind of notices for any of them?
The Mythbusters tested shooting live grenades with different guns, and shotguns effectively dismantled them and prevented an explosion. High-velocity rifle rounds produced enough of an impact to detonate the main charge, much like a tannerite bomb.
moosemaimer Yeah but how often is someone going to throw a grenade high enough for someone who just happens to be at the ready with his shotgun to shoot it in midair? It could possibly have happened but it's not something that's practical.
Strange, I watched the peterson device episode and got the idea that it was a great idea that came too late. And if you combined it with that Airforce gun you would get longer M1 carabine in ww1 I suppose (
Usefulness aside, I want a Winchester 1897 trench gun. That has to be the meanest looking fun of all time.
Why no mention of the Browning A5?
Im ging to play bf1 now
How effective was the Springfield and BAR rifle on the front of the war?
Springfield was your standard bolt action rifle. Not bad, bit nothing special compared to others. BARs were efficoent for covering fire etc. but there were too little of them.
My great great grandpa carried a krag in the battle of the Argonne forest.
Dum dum ammo is actually not blunt nosed ammo rather ammo produced at Dum Dum arsenal in India
Germany: no trenchguns, ist cruel and inhumane.
America: *how bout I do anyway?*
So about those shotguns.... :-)