What they really need to regulate are those freakin' kids on their surons and similar. I swear they run wild without regard to traffic, pedestrians and others sharing the road. These types of bikes should be regulated like any other motor bike on the road.
Ask to DMV to give them a VIN and make them register... Problem solved... The Sur Ron issues are, I've interest once about the bike, but just change my mind because I could not register those kind of things We all know that is an moto, but cannot operate in correct ways. So, give something to them to make a possibility to register, and just run them on the street, not the sidewalk or cycle path.. and problem solved. But I doubt that our government do that a proper jobs.
@@Right.To.Resistance Mountain bikes with CYC motors can reach 50mph in 5 seconds. Should we consider VIN DMV registration for mountain bikes also?... Kids adapt quickly by moving to the next fastest and latest thing
@@shockadellick I mean NO or YES. Because, the classification system said your case CAN BE a registered bike, but as all we know, that is not the mandatory. And another point is, States vehicle code, I think most of them has a standard of an identification of E bike, said "it has a pedal", not the only peg. Sounds stupid? Yes, but what the law is like this. And I doubt that your local DMV accept the bike as a moped or motorized cycle, because many of them are not. So, it is your choice. Unlike Sur Ron, your case is in the perfectly grey area. And I won't recommend to register.
It'd be pretty cool if they could just charge them with reckless driving and not ruin higher capability E-bikes for the responsible users out there. Don't make someone else's delinquency my pain in the ass.
I have an e-bike and I love riding on our bike trails, PLUS, I broke my back a few yrs ago and I would not be able to have full mobility of my back if it wasn't for my e-bike and 'Ghost Pedaling', so I need an e-bike to get exercise without strain. NOT TO MENTION about the speed of e-bikes it's not fair to compare to non e-bikes because I'v been passed by so many NON ELECTRIC SPANDEX RIDERS going SUPER FAST and usually they are TWO or THREE GOING FAST TOGETHER. Thank You for this Video 😎
I ride my Townie 7D at least 8 miles a day, usualy about 10 to 15 mph. I believe for the safety of everyone, All ebikes need to be treated as mopeds and ridden on streets only. I pull over everytime one comes flying down the sidewalks.
In regards to helmets there are major differences in performance. As someone who has ridden bikes for over 55 years and 200k miles, hit 7 times by cars and countless crashes over that time and hospitalized twice before building my first DIY eBike at 64, the first thing I do is make sure I have a good helmet. Prior to building my eBike I wore a Smith Mips helmet rated for 20 MPH which is pretty standard in NA. But once I had an eBike that can cruise at 30mph with or without pedal assist I upgraded to the European standard Mips helmet NTA 8776 standard rated at 30MPH. After 2 very close calls where cars almost took me out on my eBike, upgraded my dual piston Shimano brakes to quad piston SRAM Code RSCs. I also have high speed rated tires from Schwalbe. I even went the extra mile on my latest build with hand-built wheels designed for strength and to better handle the torque from my mid-drive CYC Stealth Gen 3 motor. The last thing I did surprised me. It actually contributes the most to my safety, enjoyment riding into town, and only cost $15. It was a mirror. I cannot underestimate how much more confident I am on the road now after adding the mirror. No more surprises coming up behind me or taking my eyes off the road to constantly look over my shoulder to see if I have room to make a move. Can't believe I waited until almost 68 to try a mirror. Good wheels, good helmet, good brakes, good mirror, and one hell of a good time now. Whether it is in the mountains where I spend most of my time climbing forestry roads or store runs and commuting, never felt safer or have had so much fun. And to those of you who think eBikes are expensive...they pay for themselves. My eBikes have paid for themselves over and over again with the cost savings on gas, insurance, and maintenance of my vehicle, not to mention the exercise, fresh air, and boost to my mental health.
I think the 15.5 mph EU limit is what makes the most sense when you're talking about riding on a bike path with walkers and dogs and kids and other riders. I can't believe we haven't heard of way more awful accidents.
Exactly, people need to find another term for that. Acoustic has to do with sound, not power. I prefer analog, but i know that isn’t truly correct either. But acoustic just doesn’t make sense. These aren’t guitars
Where I live the biggest issue is not really with the emtb type of rider, ebike rider who don't belong on the road and cycling paths; drunks who have lost their drivers license to DUI, older folks who can't drive anymore, agressive riders who bang on car hoods and don't care for traffic rules, y'all know the type 😂
The faster your bike, the more regulation you should be subjected to. People casually make 35mph bikes & call them e-bikes. That's legally a moped across all 50 states & would be subjected to registration, insurance, etc. Why are people afraid of paying more for doing more? I think this issues revolves around riders coming to terms with "e-bike" & "pedal-motorcycle". Treat it like a motorcycle/dirt bike & this solves 99% of an individuals concerns. I'd much rather have a no limit motor, pedals, & be treated like a vehicle, instead of being banned from everything because I act like a motorcycle & don't pay for it.
I see the E-bike ads now doing what they did to stereo amps in the 90s. PPO (Peak Power Output) on a stereo what the ability of that stereo output just before the transistors blew up. Now bikes, by a number of companies, are saying 1000w Peak Power, or 1500 to 2000 Peak Power output. Most states say 750 watts are the max when calling something a E-bike and are only regulated by bicycle laws (as NJ has). One company even states you can "bypass" the controller and go 40 mph with their E-bike. They then state that the parts will wear quicker. There are electric bikes that easily go 40+ that cost some $5 to $7K. One movie star's son was almost killed on one of these, riding in the city traffic. Those are not E-bikes (no pedals) and are basically electric motorcycles. I am up there in age, bought an E-bike in 2018, ride a trail (former train tracks) in NJ. The trail is basically empty, more people on weekends with walkers, bikers and e-bikers. The trail goes 16 mile. At my age I can tell you there were accidents and deaths, well before E-bikes.
Ppl please "educate" yourselves on what a class one pedal assist bike is and their capabilities before spreading fallacies. The biggest advantage is going uphill easier and riding longer. If you have a problem with that then that would be your problem but don't class is in with mountain bikes that have throttles or electric dirt bikes. Not the same. Not even close. No one should be on a bikes/ hike trail using throttles but don't try and get pedal assist banned because some ppl don't have a clue what they're talking about.
It might boil down to regulation. When trying to enforce e-bike laws it’ll be much harder to differentiate between classes and they’re easily modified so it’s hard for law enforcement to tell what is really a class 1,2 or 3 so rangers I’ve talked to don’t have an easy solution except ban anything self propelled. Which was the current law in many places until it was ignored during covid. Now it’s catch up time and over reaction comes from that.
Riding with throttle can help you avoid accidents because it reacts to your input immediately against sensor which always takes some time and is upredictable.. Someone should check honestly statistic on this but honestly without politics. I rode on both and prefer throttle for security reasons. As second if they will force people to go from trails to road just because their bikes goes 23miles per hour will cause many more accidents because they will be still much slower than regular trafic which will be tragic since it will cause more deaths. This looks like politics but definitely doesn't serve people and is diminishing quality of life because they just limit your possibility too take advantage of general progress ...
I think the federal class 1 2 3 is system is good all by itself. Anything above 28 mph can just be classified with the existing systems like moped scooter motorcycle. Insurance companies will probably have to step their game up. But that's money to be made. Class 3 e-bikes should be required to have hydraulic disc brakes at least.
The problem with some e bikes is they are just XC bikes with a super heavy hub motor, battery bolted on to the down tube inside the front triangle. Some e bikes are just regular frames where they added a motor and battery, and did not beef up anything else. Some bikes even have bad welds. But I would never buy cheap department store e bike or cheap amazon e bike. I tried a hub motor ebike once from a Norwegian department store Biltema, which was so heavy it needed the motor to be ridden uphill, and it had a tiny cassette or freewheel, and a massive chain ring. Absurd. Fork was not rated for e bikes, was just a cheap Sr Suntour fork. I would never ride crap like this. And of course it had horrible single piston mechanical brakes too.
Your channel would VERY much benefit from a better microphone...one worn on your person. I had my YT volume max'ed and my MBP volume max'ed, to hear it well...and my hearing is perfectly good.
@@jimsteinway695 The channel owner must know it is subpar or he wouldn't have one on the way. If I had left the volume at the same level and watched a video from any of the other channels I frequent, it would have been absolutely deafening. He needs adequate sound recording equipment, and he is apparently well aware.
In he UK, ebikes are limited to 15.5 mph and 250W motors which for me is fine as helps up hills, above 15.5 mph it is all me increasing range of battery whilst making me fitter and stronger.. My recumbent trike has a motor which allows it to travel at about the same speed as my non electric road bike. When I want more power and speed, I get on a motorbike. On the bicycle I get dangerously passed by illegal ebikes doing 50mph . All for ebike clamp downs to tackle the idiots.
I Live in Colorado. Here if your ebike goes faster than 28.5 mph. It's considered a mope head or electric motorcycle. They are not allowed on the bike path. Although I'm not sure how well that's enforced. For me it's all about how far I can go being outside enjoying nature, not how fast.
@@oilpainterdreams Having been on a bike path in Seattle, with a 15 mph limit, being passed by someone doing almost DOUBLE this speed is pretty scary. The reason for the lower limits such as the UK is so that the E-bike is compatible with conventional cyclists. So that the FACT of having a motor becomes irrelevant to what you expect from a bike.
@@oilpainterdreams Dude, that is not working that way.... I think most of e bikes in the market have an ability to reach the 30 mph, in 750w motor, with the unlimited mode, but if you are stay in the Class II setting, that is legal. You must be careful about the definition. The classification means, in this case, how the limiter is working. It means, if you unlock the bike and go to the cycle lane, probably it is illegal, but if you reach the 30 mph with class III, it could be speeding, but not illegal(because PAS limiter works cut the power reaching speed, but you can pedaling. PAS is working that way, so technically, you can reach over 28 mph with any illegal contents.) in the CLASSIFICATION.
Sorry British dude... Here is America and the average speed of cycle is 20~30 mph, and in the most case, the speed limit is 20 mph in the cycle lane. 15 is... probably a school zone speed.... And, also we are prefer the "Motorcycle" that has a lager displacement than your imagine, because of running highway. So, we just want to 28 mph e bike that we can ride on the street much safer than UK, because of the speed that could following traffic speed much easier. So, just buy your motorbike, and forget about us. We do not want to do same stupid things like British or Europeans.
I think you must argue that weight craps. I saw many people said, and most of them are following Europeans standard, and that is not really necessary. It is already happen in the scooter world in some states, the under 100 lbs or less weight rule like 75 lbs, and... it is very tricky. We all know fortunately the cops are not enforcing that very actively, but the issue is unclear standard(not specific as gross or dry weight, and in this case because of the battery weight, the weight can be changed 20~35lbs), means you are perhaps an illegal or probably legal. My personal opinion is the weight limit must be increase up to 200 lbs including battery, or at least 150 lbs, because we are really hard to find the scooter that has a good weight limit for big guys(most of 100lbs under scooter has 265 lbs limit, and some of that is 330 lbs, and many of the 330 lbs range is more than 100 lbs category), and for the practicality. It seems to be happen to E bikes, too.. Probably the most EMTB is just fine, because they are making as light as they possible, but many of street oriented bikes could be screwed. So, just to argue 300 lbs territory, with the DRY WEIGHT, with the motorcycle or moped standard. (Excluding battery) It could be considerable number for using an elevator and motorcycle rack on your car(up to 400~600 lbs heavy duty), and not be necessary to down as much as 60~70 lbs such as Europe. They have totally false theory of that, light weight = safety in the crash, but as we all knows, it is not the working theory.
It feels like the more standardized it becomes the more grey area emerges, it’s a total mess! I fully believe things shouldn’t be regulated at all and natural selection is a power thing. I see so many people overload vehicles and nobody says anything
@@evo1cycling I agree your idea. Especially there is a reason of natural selection, the practicality is most important. But unfortunately, 99% of this typical liberal style regulation is not having any awareness and consideration about the practicality and reality. Instead of the rationality, they based on theory that they called a common sense, but only common in their league. I bet most of lawmakers who propose regulation does not have an experiences about PEV... and actually seems like they think they do not need to consider a reality, because they have those theory.
Indeed , and there's no shortage of heavy people in this day and age , so with or without a motor. The power to weight ratio makes a huge difference , a 100 pound 12 year old on a scooter or e bike with a 250 watt motor is likely going to accelerate faster and attain a higher speed if unrestricted than an adult or bigger teen that weighs twice or 3 times the weight. Both my brother and myself for example are big fellas , pushing the 290 pound mark , 250 watts by the time you add the bike weight , to the motor , the battery , it almost does nothing. I also have a trike built to take a big fella rated for 400 pounds , it has a bigger motor , but still does not accelerate like a teen on an electric scooter or bike with a smaller motor , again power to weight ratio rules. The unfortunate thing is authorities are trying to mitigate accidents with blanket rules that do not fit a lot of the community. I might add , in my younger fitter days , I attained far higher speeds on a bike without a motor than I ever did with one , and even out on the roads today , as fit person riding a good bike can often travel at high cruising speeds , but it seems there is no attention paid to personal transportation devices without motors. Not to mention , it probably won't stop the more let's say mischievous daredevils that whizz down sometimes busy suburban or city areas like streets and footpaths with reckless riding regardless of being motorized or not.
@@mikldude9376 Sorry, what I'm saying is the "safety" matter of weight limit of scooter. I think you are not familiar, but there is a weight limit of scooter, it means recommendation or regulation about the "how much weight the device can be load". It means, if the 290 lbs buddy ride on the 265 lbs limited scooter, there is many issues, probably mechanically. So, that guy need to ride 330 lbs, but... there is very few choice of 330 lbs "loaded weight limit of scooter" in the range of 100 lbs under scooters, means "device weight". For example, new UK law that proposed said, Scooter must be weigh up to 55kg, means if the scooter's weight is more than 121 lbs, including battery, it is not legal. So, I did not mention that point. i.e. the 100lbs is not the worst, but in some states, they have 75 lbs rule. It means, the device weight is no more than 75 lbs, and... I bet actually no choice for person who are 250~300 lbs, with the possible LOADED weight. And also... I concerned European stupidity, that weight limit of 30kg. There is NO NEED to be regulate that way for practicality, price point and performance. The critical differences is, we use e bike more practical reason than UK or Europe; hunting and delivery or other utility jobs. So, we need a setup for that, not the 250w or 500w motor. I doubt that it would be run on the proper speed in a stiff hills, with the situation of food delivery, and very skeptical, because saw some case of south korean delivery; they have a crazy delivery system with the really stiff hill, because... many apartment complex is built on the mountain, and 250w or 500w both were ineffective in that terrain. So, I think you confused what I'm worried. My opinion is, the e bike or PEV is, can be used somewhat very practical way or tactical ways, like Ukraine e bike troops. But the European limit is just screwing the possibility, and weight limit is one of them. And, as you see, my point is stability. Unfortunately, most of our device is made in China, so keep the load weight limit is recommended, for safety, so 330 lbs scooter is better for me than 265 lbs limit, and there is no relation with the power to weight ratio issue.
Sram's new Mavens are meant for downhill racing which is entirely different than an above average rider going fast downhill. And most if not all DH racers don't use ebikes due to their weight for racing and or for practice. The current lineup of high end quad piston brakes from companies such as Shimano, Hope, Sram, TRP, Magura, etc., are more than adequate for ebikes. I personally think the issue with ebikers "burning through brake pads so fast" is more skill based than anything. With my 10 years of being a bicycle mechanic, most ebikers within the last 5 years are new riders who drag brake everywhere they go.
I found you asking do I need a license to ride this e'bike.. my e-bike is peddle assist and if you peddle as fast as you can it gos 29.9 mph till it tops out without any throttle......The throttle will also take upto 29.9 mh by itself. Using both at once it gos 29.9 mph. Only wY to go faster is gravity. 1000w rear hub motor will surge well over this1500 even. That over the 1000 maximum. I asked my local police what are e'bike laws and they kinda said it's a bike. Follow bicycle law. It doesn't even fit into the class models 1/2/3. And so I' could build an e-bike with a tesla by adding peddle assistance and not need a license and I could drive it in the park. Just saying that could be challenged in court
The biggest problem with e bike riders is young people that have no fear and no concept of bike rules of the road, mandatory helmets for all including scooters, no one under 16 can operate an e bike with out some sort of safety course and written and driven test, and kids on scooters need to follow the rules of the road.
The data they are using is on bikes that qualify as an ebike and more powerfil bikes that are 750watts or greater and don't qualify as an ebike under FED LAW. The needs on a 43mph bike are greater than a 500watt bike with a power shut off at 20mph.
Yeah those 20mph ones don't help anyone. Trying to make them slow as normal bikes is just stupid. I mean even cyclists on slow bikes still get hit by cars. But on a faster ebike you can save yourself and accelerate out the way instead of being too slow.
@@Mash3OH3 At 76YO a 500watt at 15mph makes a trip to the store possible. Here at the retirement center for the last 5 years only two of us used a bike. Now I need the throttle.
@_PatrickO Why would I need a moped when this does the same thing. I can lift this thing with ease and bring it inside my house. Can't really do that on mopeds or groms. It's silent, no clutch, no gear. Best part the components down wear down as quick as engines.
All I know if it wasnt for a eBike I could not ride a bike at all anymore. It seems if it helps disabled people become more mobile they want to take it away.
I think their concern is legit. I encourage EVERYONE to respond. Every letter has impact. It is said these one letter writer as representing 10-100,000 persons. E-bikes have power. Minimum kit is lights, a huge need. As an owner of a class 1 eMTB, I would move throttle bikes to a more stringent class. Brakes are inadequate. Even on my Turbo Levo, I just upgraded to Hayes 4 piston brakes. But that might be me, as I am pretty heavy. But some ebikes have cable actuators for disk brakes. Not adequate. E-bikes attract people a little more out of shape and so the bikes need to be a little more adequate. I don’t think anything crazy will come of this, but I hope they ban or regulate the motorcycle like bikes. They need a new class, like “e-Moped.” Thanks for letting us know.
Dude... There is no such things like e-moped. No... exactly it is already exist, such as NIU scooter(MQI/NQI). Now this is a problem that people does not know what the problem is. In fact, the MOPED can be registered in specific case(have a VIN), but most of "MOPED STYLE" e bike does not have VIN and does not have motor power. So, our system does not have preparation for registration, because most of DMV cannot handle the "motorized cycle, the motored cycle without VIN", and most of e-bike cannot reach the standard of moped. They only have 750W power(nominal). So, no reason to regulate. We cannot regulate the bike because the bike is looking like a moped. And, as I told, moped is just a moped. Nothing more. But the moped standard is, in the most case, outdated. In a modern days, even 50cc honda, they have a power of 2~3 hp(approximately 2300~2500w). It means 750w is not quite enough standard of considering MOPED in a modern days. it should be up to 1500w or 2000w the boundary of E bike, and moped standard should be up to 35 mph(in some states have this standard but some states still having 30 mph. too much outdated.) and e bike must be 30 mph under or 33 mph in a class III. It is reasonable, because "cyclist's average travel speed"(nationwide) is 20~30mph. So, now the class II e bike is, in fact regulated under the average speed. The reason of confusion is... because of typical liberal logic that coming from European Common Sense Crap. It is crap and unrealistic. I do not know, how slow they run the cycling on the road, but 15 mph is... too slow for us. As I told, the average speed of CYCLE is 20~30mph. So, why do we need to regulate the e bike, in the current rule? Nothing is necessary. And you MUST think separately, the E bike and E -moto like Sur Ron or Talaria, and e-moto need some clear rules, but not the rider's fault in this case, because, as I mention, the system does not prepare to make a registration for them, VIN issues, but that is not combine with the moped style e bike.
There is no need for better brakes. Braking power isn’t anything that bikes are missing. 2 caliber Disc brakes are sufficient for everything except maybe going down the Rocky Mountains with a 150kg setup. Before you run out of breaking power you run out of grip in 99% of the cases.
If only typical EMTB purpose... but in the US, it could be more practical, especially hunting. I consider to buy some of EMTB, but not interesting uphill or downhill of typical trail. I wish a hunting bike. Some of people asked to me why I want, because in average thought, the UTV or adventure bike seems better, but for those setup, I need a truck. I'm still think Christini AWD is one of best bet(Motorcycle), but with the E bike, I can do the hunting with just SUV with the bike rack mounted. It is much more compact than using UTV or motorcycle. The problem is, if you consider this way, you definitely need more "heavy duty" setup. It is quite different between just riding typical EMTB and riding an off road e bike with the tactical equipment. And the outdoor e bike means both. And the manufacturing stand point, better to invest few number of high performance EMTB, but invest larger number of typical "out door" e bike, because there is more population of hunting folks than EMTB riders.
@@Right.To.Resistance an eHardtail with rear rack mounts should do the job. As you most likely will not go more than 20-30 miles on the bike the battery size is irrelevant, a smaller one may even be beneficial as the bike get lighter.
@@svenweihusen57 Sorry, I'm not saying the bow hunting. The big game or at least hog. I do apology if you are confusing, but not the weight of compound bow hunting likes. It means bike must handle that deer or boar weight and equipment weight. The equipment means .308 rifle and ammo with some optics and etc. If the object is a turkey or Racoon, you are probably light, but I prefer different game size. I saw some people use an E bike for those size of games, but there is still many issues.
What if you have en ebike that is more than a bike but not quite a motorcycle. It dosent qualify as a moped. Well that is what an ebike is. But does not qualify as a scooter. (Street worthy/higher speed).
Personally I think they need to regulate ebikes less and include Class 4 bikes into those bikes considered bicycles under the law. As long as an ebike has working pedals that can propel a bike without the motor it having over 750 watts shouldn't matter. Nor should the speeds it can reach within reason. What matters is you ride it at a speed that fits conditions and under the actual speed limit for the area you are in. As far as the classes go they shouldn't be a defining regulation as to where an ebike can be ridden but rather a consumer guide to the capabilities of the bike being sold. A potential buyer would know a class 1 bike is pedal assist only with a 20 mph assisted speed class 2 has both pedal assist and a throttle etc. but not legal limitations. that's what speed limits on roads, trails etc are for, and of course common sense. most ebikes has built in speed limiters... called Pedal Assist levels that limit how fast it will go in and certain level. learn to use that and ebikes don't need to be regulated as much. I admittedly ride an ebike that's class 4, well over 750 watts, because it's an AWD bike so 2 motors. But that extra power is useful for acceleration to ~25 mph or in climbing hills. My bike is capable of 35 mph under throttle but only for short bursts. Highest pedal assisted speed is ~32 mph but I normally ride in PAS 4 which is 25 mph. But keep in mind the is in the bike lane along a 45 mph speed limit road so completely appropriate for conditions. The biggest factor for me though is my ebike actually Looks mostly like a normal Fat Tire 26 X 4 inch mountain style bike, even has 21 gears for off street riding or pedaling to climb hills.
"Personal liberty consists of the power of locomotion, of changing situations, of removing one's person to whatever place one's inclinations may direct, without imprisonment or restraint unless by due process of law." Bovier's Law Dictionary, 1914 ed., Black's Law Dictionary, 5th ed.; Blackstone's Commentary 134; Hare, Constitution_Pg.777
Luckily for me, Ilive in Canada, and we don't have any of that. I build my own ebikes and the only resstrictions are the total weight of the bike, 120lbs, the motor size, 500 watts and the speed, 32kms.. Sucks to be an American cyclist
We travel by RV most of the year. The vast majority of bicycles we see campers bring along now have e-assist which is a great thing for adults as they age. They ride park roads and bicycle trails without issue. MTB purists initially spoke out about these invading 'their' trails but as they age they are changing their tune. Surrons and others are e-motorcycles and should be regulated but leave e-bicycles alone. Legislators may be wise to also familiarize themselves with the Americans with Disabilities Act as disabled persons are now able to enjoy bicycling again with electrical assist. Lastly, a lot of people complaining about e-bikes are merely jealous that they can't afford one. Boo hoo😭
The ADA does not automatically allow a throttle because it cannot override safety. It is reasonable accommodation, not guaranteed accommodation. An ADA throttle would have a low speed limit such as 5mph. The issue is that limiting throttle speeds is easily overridden, so it doesn't matter the rules as long as there is no enforcement. Police will have to actually check ebikes for compliance and confiscate them if they do not comply or no rules will ever matter. The best thing the government can do is make a standardized and accessible diagnostic port that can dump the current configuration and determine if legal. Basically an OBDII port for bikes. People will still tamper with this, but at least you can make tampering with the port output a felony. This would cut down on people passing off mopeds as ebikes.
For starters, the term 'acoustic' has to do with sound theory. In no way should it be applied to differentiate between e-bicycles and non-electric bicycles. I use the word 'conventional' to apply to any bicycle without a motor. Second, brakes wear out quickely on any (not just e-bikes) whenever the rider rides faster and in heavier traffic. What really wears the brakes down faster on an e-bike is not just speed, but the heavier weight of the motor, battery, controller, wires/cables, ect. The reason I say speed isn't the only variable to analyze on an e-bike is because anyone can go just as fast (if not faster) on a conventional bicycle. When it comes to any proposed regulations imo, class I (regardless of bicycle frame and components) should not require any regulations. Class II and III probably should require an endorsement (esp. the high performance and/or speed delimited road legal bikes) and age restrictions. Even though many conventional bicycles can go just as fast (or faster), conventional bikes actually force a person to practice and train to reach such speeds. On an e-bike (esp. Class III,, any beginner can jump on and assume 28 mph+ is a safe speed for all riding conditions.
Not going to happen. Class 1,2, and three are fine. But, out of class, SurRon like light electric motorcycles are going down. Not legal on the streets. Regulation coming, for sure. But, if enthusiasts rally up, and work with the regulatory body for motorcycles, they might be able to open up a new class of light electric motorcycle. 12,000 watts, 60 mph, VIN numbers, insurance, and licenses required. Josh K.
Ho come on. When I was younger, I could take a Roley 10 speed street bike going down I could hit 40mph! So they just want to suck money out of your wallet.
Okay then explain enduro mountain bikes, jump mountain bikes, downhill mountain bikes? Those three classes of mountain bikes are to be ridden with the seat lower than proper leg extension.
Y2k jet engine powered motorcycles are legal but a throttle on a ebike isn't , what ? ,if they want to make ebiking more safe than they should do a better job cleaning the bike lane 🤕☠️😲🤬 I will say that ebikes should All adopt the larger brake hardware standard that most e motorcycles and electric mopeds use the 3 bolt hole standard not tiny bicycle brakes
I personally think that if it's a rider safety issue then simply advertise motorcycle gear. I wear a full helm that can pop open, riding gloves, ankle high boots, etc etc. Gave the bike bright turn signals and extra rear/front reflectors on my panniers. couple of side reflectors on the seat post bag. I practically glow in the dark. People look at me funny but after having the bike slide out from under me on a steep turn (pedal strike, always keep that turning peddle high kids) and immediately being able to get up and out of the way of traffic without a scratch on myself, just some scuffs on the helmet, I'm the one laughing instead of missing half my face. Ride safe out there and remember to respect the horse you ride!
Anything a government gets involved in is to make money through violations. First the recalls, then the regulations and violation fines are next. That’s all this is about, money. They need to find ways to take 80 to 99% of your savings from you.
What I'm going to say is this: More regulations aren't needed. What is needed is education on the Rules of the Road. I say this because all of this hand-wringing and pearl-clutching by the NCSB is unneeded. What is needed, if anything, is to limit all E-bikes to the spec of being able to enter limited-access highways, like freeways and interstates. That spec is roughly equivalent to the 15 HP, 125cc gas engine minimum that is posted at all freeway entrance ramps. Electrically, this spec works out to be 11.91 kW output of a battery and motor. That being said, a distinction must be made: Surrons and the like without functioning pedals are electric scooters like Honda or Vespa scooters. An E-bike with functioning pedals is equivalent to an electrical moped. I used to own, more than 25 years ago, a single-cylinder Honda moped from 1978. It had pedals, and those pedals functioned as the pedal-start for the gas engine. The key takeaway is, neither Surrons nor E-bikes are motorcycles. Therefore, no state nor municipality can treat them as such, and demand an E-bike or Surron owner have a license or permit for them, unless a rider is younger than 16. Surrons and E-bikes also have all of the same rights to use the streets and roads as cars do. Lastly, there is no reason why E-bikes should even have a class system. No other conveyance is even remotely classified in this same way. We don't classify cars by engine size or engine output; nor should we classify E-bikes similarly. Any vehicle in America is classified by weight, use, and number of axles or wheels, and E-bikes should be classified as such. As for licensing, as I've already read, good luck with that, since if you license an E-bike, you then have to license bicycles, since E-bikes are classified as "low-speed bicycles" under federal law.
I have an e-bike and I love riding on our bike trails. I don't care to ride with the traffic. PLUS, I have a very bad back and I benefit from 'Ghost Pedaling', if I had a motorcycle, I couldn't get exercise without strain. And I use a throttle when I need to.
Pedal assist mountain bikes are gross! I like the idea of a cargo or commuter bike with assist, but really just wish they would disappear. If you think you need an electric motor, you should just buy a full electric motorcycle, they cost about the same. Anything with a motor, pedal assist or not, should only be allowed to be used where motorized vehicles are allowed. E bike riders can't seem to follow the rules where I live and they give us all a bad name.
Electric motorcycles and e-bikes do not cost the same. Sure, if you're an absolute moron that spends $15k on an e-bike, you could have gotten a motorcycle. But show me where you can get an electric motorcycle for $250-1000. For $250-400 you can get an okay e-bike for commuting. For $1000 you can get an e-bike that can go 28 mph (speed limit in the US) with a good size battery, fenders, rack, fat tire, suspension, and a 440 lbs weight capacity. For $600 you can get an e-scooter that can go 28 mph, with full suspension. And the e-bike and e-scooter can be easily brought indoors and recharged safely inside. And if you run into any issues, you can literally just call a lyft ride to drop you and your ebike/scooter off at a mechanic or your home so you can repair it, whereas with a motorcycle, you're stranded and have to pay a lot of money. And, with an e-bike, you can hop off of the street and turn your power down and use a sidewalk or bike path like a regular bike. E-bikes also enable you to have a reliable method of transportation to use every day, while getting your exercise at the same time. On a regular pedal bike, the only way to get decent speed is to use a lightweight road bike, but then it's only good on perfect smooth dry roads, and the awful roads we actually have to deal with, result in flats. In my city, the roads are awful, so I've got to have wider tires, I've got to have thicker tread to prevent punctures, and my city is set up in a way where oftentimes the only way to get somewhere is using a road with a 45+ mph speed limit, high traffic, and the sidewalks disappear and reappear on the opposite side of the street a mile later, so I'm forced to use the grass, that means I've also got to have knobby offroad tread. I've also got to have suspension because the sidewalks here are awful, the pavement slabs are all uneven, and I'm forced onto the sidewalks because there are often no 30mph or lower roads to ride on to get where I have to go. I've also got to have a headlight and tail light, which take some battery power. I've got to have a rear rack for bags. I've got to have gears because contrary to popular belief, roads have inclines too. I also need disc brakes because when you're riding in the wet, rim brakes don't cut it. When all is said and done, I'm riding a heavy bike with thick durable tready tires, which is not optimal for speed at all. I can only hit 25 mph tops, and sustaining even 16-20 mph is very difficult. For longer distances my average speed drops below 15 mph. Because an optimal road bike just doesn't cut it on these streets. So the only way I actually get to ride a bike everywhere, and get exercise pedaling every time I go to work, every time I go to the store, every time I pick up food, every time I visit a friend, is by having a motor and battery to actually help me maintain speed the whole way. Thanks to that, I can ride 30 miles a day and pedal the whole time, and I get to control my workout, so if I have a lot of work to do, I don't wear myself out on the way, I just warm myself up. I obey traffic laws, I maintain awareness, I'm courteous of drivers, and I get off the road when there's too much traffic, so I don't slow anybody down. I slow down when passing pedestrians or cyclists so I don't alarm anyone. But I still have to endure prejudice from people who can't mind their own business and feel like they're entitled to try to run everybody that rides or drives something they don't approve of, off the road.
@@lewisedwardson7776 sorry, that was way too long. I didn't read much of it. In the video, he asked what we thought. This is what I think. I'd spend 5K on a mountain bike. For. 5k, you can get a pretty cool electric motorcycle, in my opinion. That's about as far as I got, about where you got insulting.
Hertz recently discontinued their electric car fleet, stating they were too costly and accident-prone. Hertz will instead opt for gas-powered vehicles, it said on Thursday, citing higher expenses related to collision and damage for EVs, even though it had aimed to convert 25% of its fleet to electric by 2024 end.
@@matthewhall8790 Sorry dude... you need at least 2000~3000$ more for the motorcycle. The issue is, most of e motorcycle that you are saying is perhaps something like Sur Ron, or cheap Chinese Denzel, or similar things, and I bet that is not reliable. It is really hard to buy, a good quality e motorcycle, that can run as much as a plain motorcycle with that cost. If the mountain cost, probably the Sur Ron likes e dirt bike is ok, but you could not run that things on the street, it means cannot be a dual purpose; most of them have a VIN issues. So, simply that is not feat. May be in some days of future, if the manufacturers are solving the VIN issues, that can be considerable. But today is not a day.
Brother, I felt the same way as you do about electric assist bikes. That was until I fell off a roof 18 months ago and I am now handicapped. It took me forever to learn how to walk again without assistance. My accident has caused my left leg to be shorter than the right. I had to sell my Harley Davidson motorcycle due to not being able to shift with left foot( I shattered my ankle and my heel (they're both titanium now)). My point, is that without an EBike I would be home bound. Next time when you see someone riding an electrical bike/trike, take a moment and remember me. I wish I hadn't fallen off that roof. My life has changed dramatically. I am humbly grateful for every day that I get to ride.
What they really need to regulate are those freakin' kids on their surons and similar. I swear they run wild without regard to traffic, pedestrians and others sharing the road. These types of bikes should be regulated like any other motor bike on the road.
Ask to DMV to give them a VIN and make them register... Problem solved... The Sur Ron issues are, I've interest once about the bike, but just change my mind because I could not register those kind of things We all know that is an moto, but cannot operate in correct ways. So, give something to them to make a possibility to register, and just run them on the street, not the sidewalk or cycle path.. and problem solved. But I doubt that our government do that a proper jobs.
@@Right.To.Resistance
Mountain bikes with CYC motors can reach 50mph in 5 seconds. Should we consider VIN DMV registration for mountain bikes also?... Kids adapt quickly by moving to the next fastest and latest thing
@@shockadellick I mean NO or YES. Because, the classification system said your case CAN BE a registered bike, but as all we know, that is not the mandatory.
And another point is, States vehicle code, I think most of them has a standard of an identification of E bike, said "it has a pedal", not the only peg.
Sounds stupid? Yes, but what the law is like this. And I doubt that your local DMV accept the bike as a moped or motorized cycle, because many of them are not.
So, it is your choice. Unlike Sur Ron, your case is in the perfectly grey area. And I won't recommend to register.
If they only regulate the people responsible for the regulations, and not an Item . The world would be much much better off
It'd be pretty cool if they could just charge them with reckless driving and not ruin higher capability E-bikes for the responsible users out there. Don't make someone else's delinquency my pain in the ass.
I have an e-bike and I love riding on our bike trails, PLUS, I broke my back a few yrs ago and I would not be able to have full mobility of my back if it wasn't for my e-bike and 'Ghost Pedaling', so I need an e-bike to get exercise without strain.
NOT TO MENTION about the speed of e-bikes it's not fair to compare to non e-bikes because I'v been passed by so many NON ELECTRIC SPANDEX RIDERS going SUPER FAST and usually they are TWO or THREE GOING FAST TOGETHER.
Thank You for this Video 😎
Yep, they haul ass and think they own the road. They are going as fast or faster than an ebike.
True. I too am routinely passed by (non-spandex-wearing) *commuter riders* when out riding (say, to get groceries or pay bills).
I ride my Townie 7D at least 8 miles a day, usualy about 10 to 15 mph. I believe for the safety of everyone, All ebikes need to be treated as mopeds and ridden on streets only. I pull over everytime one comes flying down the sidewalks.
Volodimir Zelenski (Ukranian President) speaks about E-Bikes...
Bro I think we all know who Zelenski is now :D
He's even rocking the army green shirt 😂
😂😂😂
Please send money for bikes, the survival of the channel depends on it! LMAO
@@evo1cyclingOur democracy depends on it 😂
In regards to helmets there are major differences in performance. As someone who has ridden bikes for over 55 years and 200k miles, hit 7 times by cars and countless crashes over that time and hospitalized twice before building my first DIY eBike at 64, the first thing I do is make sure I have a good helmet. Prior to building my eBike I wore a Smith Mips helmet rated for 20 MPH which is pretty standard in NA. But once I had an eBike that can cruise at 30mph with or without pedal assist I upgraded to the European standard Mips helmet NTA 8776 standard rated at 30MPH. After 2 very close calls where cars almost took me out on my eBike, upgraded my dual piston Shimano brakes to quad piston SRAM Code RSCs. I also have high speed rated tires from Schwalbe. I even went the extra mile on my latest build with hand-built wheels designed for strength and to better handle the torque from my mid-drive CYC Stealth Gen 3 motor. The last thing I did surprised me. It actually contributes the most to my safety, enjoyment riding into town, and only cost $15. It was a mirror. I cannot underestimate how much more confident I am on the road now after adding the mirror. No more surprises coming up behind me or taking my eyes off the road to constantly look over my shoulder to see if I have room to make a move. Can't believe I waited until almost 68 to try a mirror. Good wheels, good helmet, good brakes, good mirror, and one hell of a good time now. Whether it is in the mountains where I spend most of my time climbing forestry roads or store runs and commuting, never felt safer or have had so much fun. And to those of you who think eBikes are expensive...they pay for themselves. My eBikes have paid for themselves over and over again with the cost savings on gas, insurance, and maintenance of my vehicle, not to mention the exercise, fresh air, and boost to my mental health.
I think the 15.5 mph EU limit is what makes the most sense when you're talking about riding on a bike path with walkers and dogs and kids and other riders. I can't believe we haven't heard of way more awful accidents.
Very true, for the volume of bikes the numbers are quite low which does give me hope
Regulation are needed for the riders ! Not the bikes !
What the hell is an "acoustic" bike? One that makes noise!!!!
Exactly, people need to find another term for that. Acoustic has to do with sound, not power. I prefer analog, but i know that isn’t truly correct either. But acoustic just doesn’t make sense. These aren’t guitars
Special words for special people 😂🎉
We really do need another term for them, I just go with what I hear most often LOL
@@evo1cyclingHow about bikes and battery bikes then lol.
Analog
Where I live the biggest issue is not really with the emtb type of rider, ebike rider who don't belong on the road and cycling paths; drunks who have lost their drivers license to DUI, older folks who can't drive anymore, agressive riders who bang on car hoods and don't care for traffic rules, y'all know the type 😂
Makes everyone look bad when those types are out!
The faster your bike, the more regulation you should be subjected to.
People casually make 35mph bikes & call them e-bikes. That's legally a moped across all 50 states & would be subjected to registration, insurance, etc. Why are people afraid of paying more for doing more?
I think this issues revolves around riders coming to terms with "e-bike" & "pedal-motorcycle". Treat it like a motorcycle/dirt bike & this solves 99% of an individuals concerns.
I'd much rather have a no limit motor, pedals, & be treated like a vehicle, instead of being banned from everything because I act like a motorcycle & don't pay for it.
I see the E-bike ads now doing what they did to stereo amps in the 90s. PPO (Peak Power Output) on a stereo what the ability of that stereo output just before the transistors blew up. Now bikes, by a number of companies, are saying 1000w Peak Power, or 1500 to 2000 Peak Power output. Most states say 750 watts are the max when calling something a E-bike and are only regulated by bicycle laws (as NJ has). One company even states you can "bypass" the controller and go 40 mph with their E-bike. They then state that the parts will wear quicker. There are electric bikes that easily go 40+ that cost some $5 to $7K. One movie star's son was almost killed on one of these, riding in the city traffic. Those are not E-bikes (no pedals) and are basically electric motorcycles.
I am up there in age, bought an E-bike in 2018, ride a trail (former train tracks) in NJ. The trail is basically empty, more people on weekends with walkers, bikers and e-bikers. The trail goes 16 mile. At my age I can tell you there were accidents and deaths, well before E-bikes.
Ppl please "educate" yourselves on what a class one pedal assist bike is and their capabilities before spreading fallacies. The biggest advantage is going uphill easier and riding longer. If you have a problem with that then that would be your problem but don't class is in with mountain bikes that have throttles or electric dirt bikes. Not the same. Not even close. No one should be on a bikes/ hike trail using throttles but don't try and get pedal assist banned because some ppl don't have a clue what they're talking about.
It might boil down to regulation. When trying to enforce e-bike laws it’ll be much harder to differentiate between classes and they’re easily modified so it’s hard for law enforcement to tell what is really a class 1,2 or 3 so rangers I’ve talked to don’t have an easy solution except ban anything self propelled.
Which was the current law in many places until it was ignored during covid. Now it’s catch up time and over reaction comes from that.
Riding with throttle can help you avoid accidents because it reacts to your input immediately against sensor which always takes some time and is upredictable.. Someone should check honestly statistic on this but honestly without politics. I rode on both and prefer throttle for security reasons.
As second if they will force people to go from trails to road just because their bikes goes 23miles per hour will cause many more accidents because they will be still much slower than regular trafic which will be tragic since it will cause more deaths.
This looks like politics but definitely doesn't serve people and is diminishing quality of life because they just limit your possibility too take advantage of general progress ...
I think the federal class 1 2 3 is system is good all by itself. Anything above 28 mph can just be classified with the existing systems like moped scooter motorcycle. Insurance companies will probably have to step their game up. But that's money to be made. Class 3 e-bikes should be required to have hydraulic disc brakes at least.
Bike shops get a lot business changing chains and brakes on e-bikes. Hospitals get a lot of business fixing the riders.
The problem with some e bikes is they are just XC bikes with a super heavy hub motor, battery bolted on to the down tube inside the front triangle.
Some e bikes are just regular frames where they added a motor and battery, and did not beef up anything else.
Some bikes even have bad welds.
But I would never buy cheap department store e bike or cheap amazon e bike.
I tried a hub motor ebike once from a Norwegian department store Biltema, which was so heavy it needed the motor to be ridden uphill, and it had a tiny cassette or freewheel, and a massive chain ring. Absurd. Fork was not rated for e bikes, was just a cheap Sr Suntour fork.
I would never ride crap like this. And of course it had horrible single piston mechanical brakes too.
Your channel would VERY much benefit from a better microphone...one worn on your person. I had my YT volume max'ed and my MBP volume max'ed, to hear it well...and my hearing is perfectly good.
I have a new one on the way! It drives me crazy too, so excited for it to arrive
On my iPad it was perfectly clear. I’m 65 and I didn’t jack up any volume
@@jimsteinway695 The channel owner must know it is subpar or he wouldn't have one on the way. If I had left the volume at the same level and watched a video from any of the other channels I frequent, it would have been absolutely deafening. He needs adequate sound recording equipment, and he is apparently well aware.
No problem with sound here and only 1/2 volume on iPhone!
Heard it perfect you need to double check your hearing then
The chevron decision will be applied
In he UK, ebikes are limited to 15.5 mph and 250W motors which for me is fine as helps up hills, above 15.5 mph it is all me increasing range of battery whilst making me fitter and stronger.. My recumbent trike has a motor which allows it to travel at about the same speed as my non electric road bike.
When I want more power and speed, I get on a motorbike.
On the bicycle I get dangerously passed by illegal ebikes doing 50mph . All for ebike clamp downs to tackle the idiots.
I Live in Colorado. Here if your ebike goes faster than 28.5 mph. It's considered a mope head or electric motorcycle. They are not allowed on the bike path. Although I'm not sure how well that's enforced. For me it's all about how far I can go being outside enjoying nature, not how fast.
@@oilpainterdreams Having been on a bike path in Seattle, with a 15 mph limit, being passed by someone doing almost DOUBLE this speed is pretty scary. The reason for the lower limits such as the UK is so that the E-bike is compatible with conventional cyclists. So that the FACT of having a motor becomes irrelevant to what you expect from a bike.
@@oilpainterdreams Dude, that is not working that way.... I think most of e bikes in the market have an ability to reach the 30 mph, in 750w motor, with the unlimited mode, but if you are stay in the Class II setting, that is legal. You must be careful about the definition. The classification means, in this case, how the limiter is working. It means, if you unlock the bike and go to the cycle lane, probably it is illegal, but if you reach the 30 mph with class III, it could be speeding, but not illegal(because PAS limiter works cut the power reaching speed, but you can pedaling. PAS is working that way, so technically, you can reach over 28 mph with any illegal contents.) in the CLASSIFICATION.
Sorry British dude... Here is America and the average speed of cycle is 20~30 mph, and in the most case, the speed limit is 20 mph in the cycle lane. 15 is... probably a school zone speed.... And, also we are prefer the "Motorcycle" that has a lager displacement than your imagine, because of running highway. So, we just want to 28 mph e bike that we can ride on the street much safer than UK, because of the speed that could following traffic speed much easier. So, just buy your motorbike, and forget about us. We do not want to do same stupid things like British or Europeans.
So does that mean emtbs can't be used on any trails at all? Even class 1 emtbs?
I think you must argue that weight craps. I saw many people said, and most of them are following Europeans standard, and that is not really necessary. It is already happen in the scooter world in some states, the under 100 lbs or less weight rule like 75 lbs, and... it is very tricky. We all know fortunately the cops are not enforcing that very actively, but the issue is unclear standard(not specific as gross or dry weight, and in this case because of the battery weight, the weight can be changed 20~35lbs), means you are perhaps an illegal or probably legal. My personal opinion is the weight limit must be increase up to 200 lbs including battery, or at least 150 lbs, because we are really hard to find the scooter that has a good weight limit for big guys(most of 100lbs under scooter has 265 lbs limit, and some of that is 330 lbs, and many of the 330 lbs range is more than 100 lbs category), and for the practicality.
It seems to be happen to E bikes, too.. Probably the most EMTB is just fine, because they are making as light as they possible, but many of street oriented bikes could be screwed. So, just to argue 300 lbs territory, with the DRY WEIGHT, with the motorcycle or moped standard. (Excluding battery) It could be considerable number for using an elevator and motorcycle rack on your car(up to 400~600 lbs heavy duty), and not be necessary to down as much as 60~70 lbs such as Europe. They have totally false theory of that, light weight = safety in the crash, but as we all knows, it is not the working theory.
It feels like the more standardized it becomes the more grey area emerges, it’s a total mess! I fully believe things shouldn’t be regulated at all and natural selection is a power thing. I see so many people overload vehicles and nobody says anything
@@evo1cycling I agree your idea. Especially there is a reason of natural selection, the practicality is most important. But unfortunately, 99% of this typical liberal style regulation is not having any awareness and consideration about the practicality and reality. Instead of the rationality, they based on theory that they called a common sense, but only common in their league. I bet most of lawmakers who propose regulation does not have an experiences about PEV... and actually seems like they think they do not need to consider a reality, because they have those theory.
Indeed , and there's no shortage of heavy people in this day and age , so with or without a motor.
The power to weight ratio makes a huge difference , a 100 pound 12 year old on a scooter or e bike with a 250 watt motor is likely going to accelerate faster and attain a higher speed if unrestricted than an adult or bigger teen that weighs twice or 3 times the weight.
Both my brother and myself for example are big fellas , pushing the 290 pound mark , 250 watts by the time you add the bike weight , to the motor , the battery , it almost does nothing.
I also have a trike built to take a big fella rated for 400 pounds , it has a bigger motor , but still does not accelerate like a teen on an electric scooter or bike with a smaller motor , again power to weight ratio rules.
The unfortunate thing is authorities are trying to mitigate accidents with blanket rules that do not fit a lot of the community.
I might add , in my younger fitter days , I attained far higher speeds on a bike without a motor than I ever did with one , and even out on the roads today , as fit person riding a good bike can often travel at high cruising speeds , but it seems there is no attention paid to personal transportation devices without motors.
Not to mention , it probably won't stop the more let's say mischievous daredevils that whizz down sometimes busy suburban or city areas like streets and footpaths with reckless riding regardless of being motorized or not.
@@mikldude9376 Sorry, what I'm saying is the "safety" matter of weight limit of scooter. I think you are not familiar, but there is a weight limit of scooter, it means recommendation or regulation about the "how much weight the device can be load". It means, if the 290 lbs buddy ride on the 265 lbs limited scooter, there is many issues, probably mechanically. So, that guy need to ride 330 lbs, but... there is very few choice of 330 lbs "loaded weight limit of scooter" in the range of 100 lbs under scooters, means "device weight".
For example, new UK law that proposed said, Scooter must be weigh up to 55kg, means if the scooter's weight is more than 121 lbs, including battery, it is not legal. So, I did not mention that point. i.e. the 100lbs is not the worst, but in some states, they have 75 lbs rule. It means, the device weight is no more than 75 lbs, and... I bet actually no choice for person who are 250~300 lbs, with the possible LOADED weight.
And also... I concerned European stupidity, that weight limit of 30kg. There is NO NEED to be regulate that way for practicality, price point and performance. The critical differences is, we use e bike more practical reason than UK or Europe; hunting and delivery or other utility jobs. So, we need a setup for that, not the 250w or 500w motor. I doubt that it would be run on the proper speed in a stiff hills, with the situation of food delivery, and very skeptical, because saw some case of south korean delivery; they have a crazy delivery system with the really stiff hill, because... many apartment complex is built on the mountain, and 250w or 500w both were ineffective in that terrain.
So, I think you confused what I'm worried. My opinion is, the e bike or PEV is, can be used somewhat very practical way or tactical ways, like Ukraine e bike troops. But the European limit is just screwing the possibility, and weight limit is one of them.
And, as you see, my point is stability. Unfortunately, most of our device is made in China, so keep the load weight limit is recommended, for safety, so 330 lbs scooter is better for me than 265 lbs limit, and there is no relation with the power to weight ratio issue.
Sram's new Mavens are meant for downhill racing which is entirely different than an above average rider going fast downhill. And most if not all DH racers don't use ebikes due to their weight for racing and or for practice. The current lineup of high end quad piston brakes from companies such as Shimano, Hope, Sram, TRP, Magura, etc., are more than adequate for ebikes. I personally think the issue with ebikers "burning through brake pads so fast" is more skill based than anything. With my 10 years of being a bicycle mechanic, most ebikers within the last 5 years are new riders who drag brake everywhere they go.
I found you asking do I need a license to ride this e'bike.. my e-bike is peddle assist and if you peddle as fast as you can it gos 29.9 mph till it tops out without any throttle......The throttle will also take upto 29.9 mh by itself. Using both at once it gos 29.9 mph. Only wY to go faster is gravity. 1000w rear hub motor will surge well over this1500 even. That over the 1000 maximum. I asked my local police what are e'bike laws and they kinda said it's a bike. Follow bicycle law. It doesn't even fit into the class models 1/2/3. And so I' could build an e-bike with a tesla by adding peddle assistance and not need a license and I could drive it in the park. Just saying that could be challenged in court
The biggest problem with e bike riders is young people that have no fear and no concept of bike rules of the road, mandatory helmets for all including scooters, no one under 16 can operate an e bike with out some sort of safety course and written and driven test, and kids on scooters need to follow the rules of the road.
What about trailers on them. Hauled 10, 32 inch TVs on mine. The other day I hauled 150 lbs of beans to a food bank to donate.
The data they are using is on bikes that qualify as an ebike and more powerfil bikes that are 750watts or greater and don't qualify as an ebike under FED LAW. The needs on a 43mph bike are greater than a 500watt bike with a power shut off at 20mph.
Yeah those 20mph ones don't help anyone. Trying to make them slow as normal bikes is just stupid.
I mean even cyclists on slow bikes still get hit by cars.
But on a faster ebike you can save yourself and accelerate out the way instead of being too slow.
@@Mash3OH3 At 76YO a 500watt at 15mph makes a trip to the store possible. Here at the retirement center for the last 5 years only two of us used a bike. Now I need the throttle.
@@Mash3OH3 "But on a faster ebike you can save yourself and accelerate out the way instead of being too slow." lol. Get a moped if you are doing that.
@_PatrickO
Why would I need a moped when this does the same thing. I can lift this thing with ease and bring it inside my house. Can't really do that on mopeds or groms.
It's silent, no clutch, no gear. Best part the components down wear down as quick as engines.
@@Mash3OH3 Ok, it is a moped. Register it as one and stop pretending it's a bike.
All I know if it wasnt for a eBike I could not ride a bike at all anymore. It seems if it helps disabled people become more mobile they want to take it away.
Where?
United States
What state ??
I think their concern is legit. I encourage EVERYONE to respond. Every letter has impact. It is said these one letter writer as representing 10-100,000 persons.
E-bikes have power. Minimum kit is lights, a huge need. As an owner of a class 1 eMTB, I would move throttle bikes to a more stringent class. Brakes are inadequate. Even on my Turbo Levo, I just upgraded to Hayes 4 piston brakes. But that might be me, as I am pretty heavy. But some ebikes have cable actuators for disk brakes. Not adequate. E-bikes attract people a little more out of shape and so the bikes need to be a little more adequate. I don’t think anything crazy will come of this, but I hope they ban or regulate the motorcycle like bikes. They need a new class, like “e-Moped.” Thanks for letting us know.
Dude... There is no such things like e-moped. No... exactly it is already exist, such as NIU scooter(MQI/NQI). Now this is a problem that people does not know what the problem is. In fact, the MOPED can be registered in specific case(have a VIN), but most of "MOPED STYLE" e bike does not have VIN and does not have motor power. So, our system does not have preparation for registration, because most of DMV cannot handle the "motorized cycle, the motored cycle without VIN", and most of e-bike cannot reach the standard of moped. They only have 750W power(nominal).
So, no reason to regulate. We cannot regulate the bike because the bike is looking like a moped. And, as I told, moped is just a moped. Nothing more. But the moped standard is, in the most case, outdated. In a modern days, even 50cc honda, they have a power of 2~3 hp(approximately 2300~2500w). It means 750w is not quite enough standard of considering MOPED in a modern days. it should be up to 1500w or 2000w the boundary of E bike, and moped standard should be up to 35 mph(in some states have this standard but some states still having 30 mph. too much outdated.) and e bike must be 30 mph under or 33 mph in a class III. It is reasonable, because "cyclist's average travel speed"(nationwide) is 20~30mph. So, now the class II e bike is, in fact regulated under the average speed.
The reason of confusion is... because of typical liberal logic that coming from European Common Sense Crap. It is crap and unrealistic. I do not know, how slow they run the cycling on the road, but 15 mph is... too slow for us. As I told, the average speed of CYCLE is 20~30mph. So, why do we need to regulate the e bike, in the current rule?
Nothing is necessary. And you MUST think separately, the E bike and E -moto like Sur Ron or Talaria, and e-moto need some clear rules, but not the rider's fault in this case, because, as I mention, the system does not prepare to make a registration for them, VIN issues, but that is not combine with the moped style e bike.
There is no need for better brakes. Braking power isn’t anything that bikes are missing. 2 caliber Disc brakes are sufficient for everything except maybe going down the Rocky Mountains with a 150kg setup. Before you run out of breaking power you run out of grip in 99% of the cases.
If only typical EMTB purpose... but in the US, it could be more practical, especially hunting. I consider to buy some of EMTB, but not interesting uphill or downhill of typical trail. I wish a hunting bike. Some of people asked to me why I want, because in average thought, the UTV or adventure bike seems better, but for those setup, I need a truck. I'm still think Christini AWD is one of best bet(Motorcycle), but with the E bike, I can do the hunting with just SUV with the bike rack mounted. It is much more compact than using UTV or motorcycle.
The problem is, if you consider this way, you definitely need more "heavy duty" setup. It is quite different between just riding typical EMTB and riding an off road e bike with the tactical equipment. And the outdoor e bike means both. And the manufacturing stand point, better to invest few number of high performance EMTB, but invest larger number of typical "out door" e bike, because there is more population of hunting folks than EMTB riders.
@@Right.To.Resistance an eHardtail with rear rack mounts should do the job. As you most likely will not go more than 20-30 miles on the bike the battery size is irrelevant, a smaller one may even be beneficial as the bike get lighter.
@@svenweihusen57 Sorry, I'm not saying the bow hunting. The big game or at least hog. I do apology if you are confusing, but not the weight of compound bow hunting likes. It means bike must handle that deer or boar weight and equipment weight. The equipment means .308 rifle and ammo with some optics and etc. If the object is a turkey or Racoon, you are probably light, but I prefer different game size. I saw some people use an E bike for those size of games, but there is still many issues.
What if you have en ebike that is more than a bike but not quite a motorcycle. It dosent qualify as a moped. Well that is what an ebike is. But does not qualify as a scooter. (Street worthy/higher speed).
They are going to make them unaffordible for many. Also, eventually they will dip lower to ordinary pedal bikes. I see it coming.
Speed limits are posted for car post for bikes also
Personally I think they need to regulate ebikes less and include Class 4 bikes into those bikes considered bicycles under the law. As long as an ebike has working pedals that can propel a bike without the motor it having over 750 watts shouldn't matter. Nor should the speeds it can reach within reason. What matters is you ride it at a speed that fits conditions and under the actual speed limit for the area you are in. As far as the classes go they shouldn't be a defining regulation as to where an ebike can be ridden but rather a consumer guide to the capabilities of the bike being sold. A potential buyer would know a class 1 bike is pedal assist only with a 20 mph assisted speed class 2 has both pedal assist and a throttle etc. but not legal limitations. that's what speed limits on roads, trails etc are for, and of course common sense. most ebikes has built in speed limiters... called Pedal Assist levels that limit how fast it will go in and certain level. learn to use that and ebikes don't need to be regulated as much. I admittedly ride an ebike that's class 4, well over 750 watts, because it's an AWD bike so 2 motors. But that extra power is useful for acceleration to ~25 mph or in climbing hills. My bike is capable of 35 mph under throttle but only for short bursts. Highest pedal assisted speed is ~32 mph but I normally ride in PAS 4 which is 25 mph. But keep in mind the is in the bike lane along a 45 mph speed limit road so completely appropriate for conditions. The biggest factor for me though is my ebike actually Looks mostly like a normal Fat Tire 26 X 4 inch mountain style bike, even has 21 gears for off street riding or pedaling to climb hills.
"Personal liberty consists of the power of locomotion, of changing situations, of removing one's person to whatever place one's inclinations may direct, without imprisonment or restraint unless by due process of law." Bovier's Law Dictionary, 1914 ed., Black's Law Dictionary, 5th ed.; Blackstone's Commentary 134; Hare, Constitution_Pg.777
Is this state or national laws
Luckily for me, Ilive in Canada, and we don't have any of that. I build my own ebikes and the only resstrictions are the total weight of the bike, 120lbs, the motor size, 500 watts and the speed, 32kms.. Sucks to be an American cyclist
32 km/h is 20 mph
We travel by RV most of the year. The vast majority of bicycles we see campers bring along now have e-assist which is a great thing for adults as they age. They ride park roads and bicycle trails without issue. MTB purists initially spoke out about these invading 'their' trails but as they age they are changing their tune. Surrons and others are e-motorcycles and should be regulated but leave e-bicycles alone. Legislators may be wise to also familiarize themselves with the Americans with Disabilities Act as disabled persons are now able to enjoy bicycling again with electrical assist. Lastly, a lot of people complaining about e-bikes are merely jealous that they can't afford one. Boo hoo😭
The ADA does not automatically allow a throttle because it cannot override safety. It is reasonable accommodation, not guaranteed accommodation.
An ADA throttle would have a low speed limit such as 5mph. The issue is that limiting throttle speeds is easily overridden, so it doesn't matter the rules as long as there is no enforcement. Police will have to actually check ebikes for compliance and confiscate them if they do not comply or no rules will ever matter. The best thing the government can do is make a standardized and accessible diagnostic port that can dump the current configuration and determine if legal. Basically an OBDII port for bikes. People will still tamper with this, but at least you can make tampering with the port output a felony. This would cut down on people passing off mopeds as ebikes.
For starters, the term 'acoustic' has to do with sound theory. In no way should it be applied to differentiate between e-bicycles and non-electric bicycles. I use the word 'conventional' to apply to any bicycle without a motor. Second, brakes wear out quickely on any (not just e-bikes) whenever the rider rides faster and in heavier traffic. What really wears the brakes down faster on an e-bike is not just speed, but the heavier weight of the motor, battery, controller, wires/cables, ect. The reason I say speed isn't the only variable to analyze on an e-bike is because anyone can go just as fast (if not faster) on a conventional bicycle. When it comes to any proposed regulations imo, class I (regardless of bicycle frame and components) should not require any regulations. Class II and III probably should require an endorsement (esp. the high performance and/or speed delimited road legal bikes) and age restrictions. Even though many conventional bicycles can go just as fast (or faster), conventional bikes actually force a person to practice and train to reach such speeds. On an e-bike (esp. Class III,, any beginner can jump on and assume 28 mph+ is a safe speed for all riding conditions.
yet car owners gets a pass on everything doing 80mph+ on a 25mph street killing cyclists and pedestrians without charges
LOL @ "...the fun-suckers at the CPSC..." ❤😂
You know what really needs to be regulated?? REGULATORS!
Facts!!!
Not going to happen. Class 1,2, and three are fine. But, out of class, SurRon like light electric motorcycles are going down. Not legal on the streets. Regulation coming, for sure. But, if enthusiasts rally up, and work with the regulatory body for motorcycles, they might be able to open up a new class of light electric motorcycle. 12,000 watts, 60 mph, VIN numbers, insurance, and licenses required. Josh K.
Ho come on. When I was younger, I could take a Roley 10 speed street bike going down I could hit 40mph! So they just want to suck money out of your wallet.
All socal e-mtb "riders"....
Don't shift, seat to low, run red lights. Ef, them....
Same in Montreal Canada
Okay then explain enduro mountain bikes, jump mountain bikes, downhill mountain bikes? Those three classes of mountain bikes are to be ridden with the seat lower than proper leg extension.
Motor vehicle regulations. It’s coming.
Y2k jet engine powered motorcycles are legal but a throttle on a ebike isn't , what ? ,if they want to make ebiking more safe than they should do a better job cleaning the bike lane 🤕☠️😲🤬 I will say that ebikes should All adopt the larger brake hardware standard that most e motorcycles and electric mopeds use the 3 bolt hole standard not tiny bicycle brakes
I personally think that if it's a rider safety issue then simply advertise motorcycle gear. I wear a full helm that can pop open, riding gloves, ankle high boots, etc etc. Gave the bike bright turn signals and extra rear/front reflectors on my panniers. couple of side reflectors on the seat post bag. I practically glow in the dark. People look at me funny but after having the bike slide out from under me on a steep turn (pedal strike, always keep that turning peddle high kids) and immediately being able to get up and out of the way of traffic without a scratch on myself, just some scuffs on the helmet, I'm the one laughing instead of missing half my face. Ride safe out there and remember to respect the horse you ride!
Anything a government gets involved in is to make money through violations. First the recalls, then the regulations and violation fines are next. That’s all this is about, money. They need to find ways to take 80 to 99% of your savings from you.
Wow😮
Let`s make some restriction on green energi transport and let our planet go to hell.
What I'm going to say is this:
More regulations aren't needed. What is needed is education on the Rules of the Road.
I say this because all of this hand-wringing and pearl-clutching by the NCSB is unneeded. What is needed, if anything, is to limit all E-bikes to the spec of being able to enter limited-access highways, like freeways and interstates. That spec is roughly equivalent to the 15 HP, 125cc gas engine minimum that is posted at all freeway entrance ramps. Electrically, this spec works out to be 11.91 kW output of a battery and motor.
That being said, a distinction must be made: Surrons and the like without functioning pedals are electric scooters like Honda or Vespa scooters. An E-bike with functioning pedals is equivalent to an electrical moped. I used to own, more than 25 years ago, a single-cylinder Honda moped from 1978. It had pedals, and those pedals functioned as the pedal-start for the gas engine.
The key takeaway is, neither Surrons nor E-bikes are motorcycles. Therefore, no state nor municipality can treat them as such, and demand an E-bike or Surron owner have a license or permit for them, unless a rider is younger than 16. Surrons and E-bikes also have all of the same rights to use the streets and roads as cars do.
Lastly, there is no reason why E-bikes should even have a class system. No other conveyance is even remotely classified in this same way. We don't classify cars by engine size or engine output; nor should we classify E-bikes similarly. Any vehicle in America is classified by weight, use, and number of axles or wheels, and E-bikes should be classified as such. As for licensing, as I've already read, good luck with that, since if you license an E-bike, you then have to license bicycles, since E-bikes are classified as "low-speed bicycles" under federal law.
Get those F-ing throttle e-bikes off the bike paths!! They are motorbikes.
They tear up the trails.
A Class 2 EBIKE is a bicycle as defined by Federal Law as using a throttle. Any state or municipality cannot contradict federal law
I have an e-bike and I love riding on our bike trails. I don't care to ride with the traffic. PLUS, I have a very bad back and I benefit from 'Ghost Pedaling', if I had a motorcycle, I couldn't get exercise without strain. And I use a throttle when I need to.
another zelinski beard
Pedal assist mountain bikes are gross! I like the idea of a cargo or commuter bike with assist, but really just wish they would disappear. If you think you need an electric motor, you should just buy a full electric motorcycle, they cost about the same. Anything with a motor, pedal assist or not, should only be allowed to be used where motorized vehicles are allowed. E bike riders can't seem to follow the rules where I live and they give us all a bad name.
Electric motorcycles and e-bikes do not cost the same.
Sure, if you're an absolute moron that spends $15k on an e-bike, you could have gotten a motorcycle.
But show me where you can get an electric motorcycle for $250-1000.
For $250-400 you can get an okay e-bike for commuting.
For $1000 you can get an e-bike that can go 28 mph (speed limit in the US) with a good size battery, fenders, rack, fat tire, suspension, and a 440 lbs weight capacity.
For $600 you can get an e-scooter that can go 28 mph, with full suspension.
And the e-bike and e-scooter can be easily brought indoors and recharged safely inside. And if you run into any issues, you can literally just call a lyft ride to drop you and your ebike/scooter off at a mechanic or your home so you can repair it, whereas with a motorcycle, you're stranded and have to pay a lot of money.
And, with an e-bike, you can hop off of the street and turn your power down and use a sidewalk or bike path like a regular bike.
E-bikes also enable you to have a reliable method of transportation to use every day, while getting your exercise at the same time. On a regular pedal bike, the only way to get decent speed is to use a lightweight road bike, but then it's only good on perfect smooth dry roads, and the awful roads we actually have to deal with, result in flats. In my city, the roads are awful, so I've got to have wider tires, I've got to have thicker tread to prevent punctures, and my city is set up in a way where oftentimes the only way to get somewhere is using a road with a 45+ mph speed limit, high traffic, and the sidewalks disappear and reappear on the opposite side of the street a mile later, so I'm forced to use the grass, that means I've also got to have knobby offroad tread. I've also got to have suspension because the sidewalks here are awful, the pavement slabs are all uneven, and I'm forced onto the sidewalks because there are often no 30mph or lower roads to ride on to get where I have to go. I've also got to have a headlight and tail light, which take some battery power. I've got to have a rear rack for bags. I've got to have gears because contrary to popular belief, roads have inclines too. I also need disc brakes because when you're riding in the wet, rim brakes don't cut it. When all is said and done, I'm riding a heavy bike with thick durable tready tires, which is not optimal for speed at all. I can only hit 25 mph tops, and sustaining even 16-20 mph is very difficult. For longer distances my average speed drops below 15 mph. Because an optimal road bike just doesn't cut it on these streets. So the only way I actually get to ride a bike everywhere, and get exercise pedaling every time I go to work, every time I go to the store, every time I pick up food, every time I visit a friend, is by having a motor and battery to actually help me maintain speed the whole way. Thanks to that, I can ride 30 miles a day and pedal the whole time, and I get to control my workout, so if I have a lot of work to do, I don't wear myself out on the way, I just warm myself up.
I obey traffic laws, I maintain awareness, I'm courteous of drivers, and I get off the road when there's too much traffic, so I don't slow anybody down. I slow down when passing pedestrians or cyclists so I don't alarm anyone. But I still have to endure prejudice from people who can't mind their own business and feel like they're entitled to try to run everybody that rides or drives something they don't approve of, off the road.
@@lewisedwardson7776 sorry, that was way too long. I didn't read much of it. In the video, he asked what we thought. This is what I think. I'd spend 5K on a mountain bike. For. 5k, you can get a pretty cool electric motorcycle, in my opinion. That's about as far as I got, about where you got insulting.
Hertz recently discontinued their electric car fleet, stating they were too costly and accident-prone.
Hertz will instead opt for gas-powered vehicles, it said on Thursday, citing higher expenses related to collision and damage for EVs, even though it had aimed to convert 25% of its fleet to electric by 2024 end.
@@matthewhall8790 Sorry dude... you need at least 2000~3000$ more for the motorcycle. The issue is, most of e motorcycle that you are saying is perhaps something like Sur Ron, or cheap Chinese Denzel, or similar things, and I bet that is not reliable. It is really hard to buy, a good quality e motorcycle, that can run as much as a plain motorcycle with that cost. If the mountain cost, probably the Sur Ron likes e dirt bike is ok, but you could not run that things on the street, it means cannot be a dual purpose; most of them have a VIN issues.
So, simply that is not feat. May be in some days of future, if the manufacturers are solving the VIN issues, that can be considerable. But today is not a day.
Brother, I felt the same way as you do about electric assist bikes. That was until I fell off a roof 18 months ago and I am now handicapped. It took me forever to learn how to walk again without assistance. My accident has caused my left leg to be shorter than the right. I had to sell my Harley Davidson motorcycle due to not being able to shift with left foot( I shattered my ankle and my heel (they're both titanium now)). My point, is that without an EBike I would be home bound. Next time when you see someone riding an electrical bike/trike, take a moment and remember me. I wish I hadn't fallen off that roof. My life has changed dramatically. I am humbly grateful for every day that I get to ride.
I would like to see all E-Bikes banned.
You're probably one of the drivers I have to watch out for when I ride mine.