As a trumpeter for many years I prefer the Mount Vernon but with a small distance to the Stomvi.. Bach is richer in sound and the sound is beautiful🎺🎺🎺
David Ridge here. I own a 1964 Strad, have had so many ask me to sell it to them. Fabulous trumpet. I might be biased, but certainly the strad was every bit the equal or better. Mostlt, just listening without looking, it was hard to detect much difference, which tells me the stimvi must be a great horn, as the Bach certainly is.
@@edstud1 glad to hear it. What are you playing now? The Stomvi master is a lot more free blowing than the Bach. I would strongly recommend checking out the Stomvi classica with the gold wash bell also. ua-cam.com/video/2Wtt2qji9tU/v-deo.html
I am not very experienced, but I just loved the Bach. I have been haunting the 'net for the last month listening to the best trumpet sounds I can find, so I am tuned in a bit. I could not really say why, but the Bach just seemed smoother and absolutely uniform throughout, whilst still having a lovely cutting edge to get your attention. You play like an absolute demon Mr. Phil.! Fantastic.
Hi Chris, Thanks for your kind words. It sounds like you have chosen what your next instrument will be. Exciting times ahead. When are you planning to get out? Cheers Phil
My primary Bb is a Model 37 Strad (1978). My primary piccolo trumpet is a Stomvi Elite. Both are great horns, but I enjoy playing the pic immensely. It just feels better. Definitely more enjoyable than any Schilke P5-4 I've played.
Thanks Wayne, They've write valuable these days. Ive been offered more than double what I paid for it. Don't think I can bring myself to sell it though.
@@PhillONeillTrumpet my grandfather was bunny berigan he played on a conn. Anyway Jerry Callett had bought it off of someone who own it. Jerome sold it for 6.000 dollars. A conn 22 i think.
It's a pretty incredible piece of kit. Having intonation and sound this consistent and being able to change bells, leadpipes and bell crooks is something special.
Recently got a Stomvi Forte (1989) well maintained but clearly never played. No wear and tear even for light use. It had sat on a display shelf of a music store that changed ownership in the 90's to a less brass friendly music store. My luck. With both Bb and C tuning slides it is one of the most relaxing trumpets I've played. Like it better than a Yamaha Xeno. Really like the format of your comparison and the effort you took to even the scales.
I got my Forte in about 2002. I preferred it over the Elite in the shop despite being much cheaper. It has had hundreds of hours use, a few dings and the gold has rubbed of the top of the valve buttons, but it still sounds good.
I agree with mr. Taylor. Both were very good sounding. I think in my opinion the Bach had a much richer tone. I have 5 Trumpets. the two of my Favorites are My King For tonal quality. My Olds for the valve action.
I prefer Bach. May I make a question? What Bach Strad. Trumpet do you prefer Phill, BACH ARTISAN AB190S or BACH NEW YORK 190S43W2 CENTENNIAL? Thank you!
I have played Bach Artisan but not the New York so I cannot compare them. I prefer to play Stomvi trumpets. Best of luck with your next trumpet purchase.
@@PhillONeillTrumpet thanks for the response Phill, it's so difficult to pick out between the same brand. Why do you prefer Stomvi? You are Stomvi artist, why do you consider Stomvi better than Bach?
Thats a fantastic question. Firstly the stomvi feels better to play. It has the perfect balance between openness and existence to help me play easier. The intonation is more consistent. I dont have to manipulate the D, Eb, E at the top of the stave as much as I did on any Bach. The stomvi is much more consistent among all of their instruments. Each version of the same horn that I've played is exactly the same as every other version of it. Unlike Bach, you can have 2 of the same horn and they feel completely different. Articulation really pops easily on the Stomvi. These are some of the reasons I really like playing Stomvi trumpets. As an artist I still pay for my instruments (there is a discount but is a tighter margin than most people think) and im happy to do so because they are great to play. I have had offers for sponsorship deals with other manufacturers but at the end of the day I need to believe in the product in addicts with.
Both are solid and sound great. There are some differences, but I'll bet none of us could tell which one you were playing if there were no video and you didn't tell us. That would be a great true test! I find it fun that people hear the exact same differences between them, but attributed to either/or in reverse fashion. Many simply gave their preference, which is fine. Then there are those who will always like the Bach better, as long as they know they're listening to a Bach.
I have since upgraded my desktop sound system, so am now hearing the differences in very high fidelity. The 2 horns are very close. To my ears, the difference is harmonics. The Bach produces more audible harmonics, and thus sounds a tad richer in this close-encounter style of recording. The Stomvi harmonics are there, but slightly less in amplitude. This comparison should be done in a concert hall. I suspect the Stomvi may 'project' a tad better, due to the more focused sound. For tone, in this recording, I still prefer the Bach overall. Both are stellar horns. For purchase, I would choose based upon ease of play. @Phil: you have excellent tone and skills. the 1.25 is a demanding mouthpiece.
Hi Rob, Good to hear you coming back to this after upgrading your speakers. This video has become more popular than I ever thought possible. I think I may need to do more comparison videos and actually test some of the theories people are having. Happy practising
Of the reviews I read, this the one that most closely parallels my thoughts. Although I did not have a chance to listen in high definition stereo, I thought the Bach had more of the higher harmonics, i.e. I thought it was brighter than the Stomvi. Phil mentions the Stomvi bell is copper and I expect it is gold-plated. Although their gold-plated brass bells are supposed to be brighter than their solid silver bells, I don’t know how gold-plated copper would compare. I expect it would be darker than gold-plated brass, but how might it compare to solid silver? (I have a friend who has a Stomvi flugelhorn with raw copper bell, and man, that horn is really dark!) Anyway, I thought the articulation of both horns sounded similar. I don’t know how much difference i might perceive in the (comparatively poor) sound I would personally be able to attain with either, but it is great to hear these horns compared by a real master. Both sound beautiful. I think I’d prefer the sound of the Bach in situations where I wanted the sound to be brighter. For the record, my main horn is a Stomvi Elite lightweight model that I bought new at a very attractive price nearly 20 years ago. I had only heard of Stomvi a little over a year before that because at that time, I bought a Stomvi Classica for my son, then a High School sophomore. It was the one he liked best after trying several horns. I also have a Stomvi Combi (with a gold-plated brass bell and a solid silver bell) that I play rarely for special occasions. I don’t own any Bachs. When I originally bought my Stomvi Elite lightweight, I was comparing it to a few new Bachs, a Conn Vintage 1 with a fixed, solid silver bell. I chose the Stomvi because it seemed to require less air. It just seemed easier to play. On that day, with me playing the horn, the soundI was able to achieve seemed better. Since I only planned at that point to play for my own enjoyment, I was way more concerned with value, ease of play and how the horn sounded to me while I was playing it versus how it would sound to others. I bought the Combi second hand and I chose it based on reputation, condition and price without having played the horn. I also have a Stomvi Elite flugelhorn purchase second hand. In summary, if I was horn shopping for a really high end horn like these, I would hope to try several side-by-side and see how I could make them sound.
Let's just first be clear on how beautiful each horn sounded. Personally I like the Bach sound and I'm partial to the Bach, but the Stomvi sounded much more "natural" and easier which in turn leads to a better performance.
@@PhillONeillTrumpet Maybe a Large Bore Bach and a Large Bore Schilke. I have a Bronx New York Strad and a early 80's Model 43 which plays very open compared to my 37 and if you ever get the chance check out a 70's Model 72 ML RL I tried a friends and honestly think it may be one I would revert to something illegal to get one.....Just kidding. I went to Bach's first Bach Fest back in 2017 and was disappointed they didn't have a single LB to try. I haven't found one in any Store either and I don't just buy without putting some time on it.....
Mates of mine here in Sydney have had a few large bore Bach’s. Usually 1980’s. I’ll see if any of them have one lying around and get another comparison for u.
Both sound excellent, but to get picky... I like the Stomvi-the harmonic profile is tighter in the extreme high and low pitches which makes it more resonant-and I think that's what some previous comments have called "brighter?" Mr. O'Neill seems to be working harder on the Bach, judging from his facial expressions. The triple tonguing in the last excerpt sounds easier and cleaner on the Stomvi equipment.
Thanks for the video, very interesting and very nice playing too. I also rock a Bach (large bore 25 bell to which I replaced the leadpipe with a 43)and a Stomvi Master C trumpet and find them to be very different in feel but this video kind of confirms what I've always thought when comparing trumpets - that we generally just sound distinctively like ourselves more than anything else when switching instruments. I think it feels a lot more different from the players point of view than the listeners. You sounded pretty much like you on both horns. The Stomvi was a bit brighter but there wasn't much in it. I find my Stomvi plays itself more than my Bach or Kanstul. The 'slots' are more precisely defined and locked in than my other horns.
The way Vincent Bach designed his receiver was for his Bach MPCS, the same w Schilke-Mr. Schilke made Schilke receiver's to securely fit Schilke MPCS best-the Stomvi sounds more resonate but the Bach more compact like the 37 bell should sound-remember, with a more "commercial" MPC, the characteristic's would change on both horns somewhat
Finally, I found a competent trumpeter to give an honest comparison! Thanks to Phil! Myself, I hear excellent tone from both, but prefer the Bach for the tunes chosen. The Stomvi might be excellent for the big band sound, using say a 2C mouthpiece. How are the valves on the Stomvi?
Hi Rob, Thanks for your kind words. The valves on both my Bach and Stomvi are awesome!!! I’m super strict with valves I really hate sluggish valves so I spend a lot of time working them in.
Its difficult to bring sluggish valves back from the grave so to speak. A lot easier to get them working great from new. Try to be disciplined with hand posture and how you push the valves down every time you play. And always keep your valves clean. Good luck.
I know these comments are a year old but my strad had slow valves and simply changing valve oil from Bach to blue juice fixed it, worth a try I suppose
I felt the Stromvi had a clearer/cleaner intonation and was a bit brighter in the upper register. The Haydn high E-flat was slightly flat on the Bach. The articulation seemed easier on the Stromvi in the Shahrazod passage--are the valves faster on the stromvi? I'd take the Stromvi if given a choice. Albert (mainly a cornet fanatic, (Favorite: Olds super}. My trumpet is Kanstul international
Thanks. It has taken me many years with many hours of practice listening and research to get to where I am at today. Compliments like this make me feel like it was worth it. Thank you
I prefer the feel of the Stomvi. Especially between middle C and G just above the stave. It just slots nicely in that register when I find I need to manipulate the Bach a fair bit to play in tune there.
Everything sounds better on the Stomvi. You sound like you feel at ease on it. The Stomvi is slightly brighter. More importantly, you are controlling the "gas pedal" on that brightness intuitively. As you go higher, the Stomvi's brightness gives it a sweetness which you capitalize on. The Stomvi also articulates better, and has a more even rich sound in the low register.
I like them both. However, like a lot of others, I slightly prefer the Bach. It’s not “just” a Bach, though. It’s a Mt. Vernon Bach. I’d like to see the comparison again with a Bach of the same vintage as the Stomvi.
You sound great on both horns. I have done the same thing between my horns comparing them to each other. One thing I notice when I do that is I always play a little better the second time. Even though you know what your playing very well it’s always a little easier after just playing it. I also unconsciously feel like the horn I want to play better I try a little harder without trying too. I believe as an artist endorsing Stomvi you were trying to prove that a Stomvi plays as well or better than a Mt Vernon Bach. Also keep in mind the several custom modifications you have on the Stomvi for it to respond exactly how you want it. So straight up the contest is biased towards the Stomvi. I’m sure there are many people who would be willing to trade you the same Stomvi for your Mt. Vernon. You are a fantastic player who could make any horn sound it’s best. I play on a Scodwell USA Trumpet but alas I must admit I am a Bach Loyalist. Every horn I have has a quality that the others haven’t and I choose which one to use depending on the music. I’m sure you will not be trading or selling that Mt. Vernon.
Hi Wayne, Very true observation, usually the 2nd excerpt is slightly better than the first. You never part with a classic like a Mt. Vernon. I feel like the Stomvi is easier to play and then leaves me to think music rather than technique. This Stomvi has no modifications. As is off the shelf. I found the leadpipe and bell combo I liked that was in the case straight from the shop. Thanks for joining in.
I havent done any work to either horn. Im not sure if the bach has had an alignment done by previous owner. Jon Ruff from Stomvi USA used to work with Bob Reeves, he made sure all Stomvi trumpet leave the factory with that kind of alignment as stock.
I don’t follow the bit about the “custom modifications on the Stomvi” mentioned by this author, since Phil makes the comment in the video about the Stomvi being “off the shelf.” Stomvi Masters come with interchangeable bells, lead pipes, crooks etc. so you can choose what suits you. I think Phil did a very credible job of describing the horns and playing them in as unbiased way as anyone could. In my opinion, saying that Phil biased this comparison toward one horn or the other is an insult.
Bach is Bach.Never tried Stovi but it seems light and possibly after you get tired it’s core might disappear and sound becomes trombone like .Would you sell Bach?
That will be fine its a good value for money Trumpet. I really like the Stomvi Classica as another option. you can find my review on it here. ua-cam.com/video/r13t-k8AzOg/v-deo.html At the end of the day you should play as many different options and go with what feels the best to play for you. #HappyPractising
To me the Bach sounds a little more fuller and rounder with an outstanding sound no doubt due in no small measure to the player and is perfectly suited to orchestral and solo playing, the Stomvi is close. I myself play a 1974 Bach Strad 25 made in Elkhart Indiana which I bought new.
@@PhillONeillTrumpet I keep listing to this vid and the more I listen the more I favor the Bach as the reasons I mentioned above and I might add that the Bach sounds as though it is on a rock solid foundation sound wise and has weight to it`s core not so much the Stomvi. I could listen to you play on the Bach all day long but I know you find the Stomvi easier to play. The Bach I play also has this quality with weight and beauty of sound. You could knock down the walls of Jericho with that Bach sound.
In my humble opinion the Strad had brighter sound more broad, projection the Stomvi a bit darker more focused the Bach was spot on in intonation through out the ranges. I seemed to detect minor intonation issues with the Stomvi . Your 16ths sounded more focused on the Bach and the Stomvi appeared to fight you . The tuning slide on both are radically different in curve . the question I have is which horn played more efficient for you ? some of the Stomvi forte upper register was edgy almost too harsh/ cringy . Just my take .
They both feel like great horns. To me, when I consistently play the Stomvi it feels better than the Bach. One this I do prefer from the Bach to the Stomvi is the 1 piece bell. The Stomvi master is a 2 piece bell. The Stomvi Titan is a 1 piece bell and I think with the same setup on my master in the Titan I would find that the perfect horn!!!
I feel the 2 piece bell dampens the sound a little where the 1 piece bell rings out a bit more. On the master it’s only a very small thing it’s such an amazing instrument to play it’s only after playing it everyday for a year that I’ve started to think this.
I found the master far easier to play than the Bach. Especially the intonation. The typical flat D, Eb, E top of the stave is just effortless on the stomvi.
Bach is a great trumpet, Mt Vernon is the cream of the crop and whoever has one is a lucky player . This is the trumpet Michelle Lacerenza RIP used in all spaghetti western solos. In this video stomvi has a 27 bell VS 37 Bach, this may sound a little but in this video one can tell the effect where Bach has darker warmer sound and stomvi is much brighter especially in higher registers.
Bach sound very dark and distinctive. You are partial to it. It can be heard in your "sound". Gap is less in Bach than in Stomvi giving it that distinctive 'presence'.
it is a pretty nice horn I must admit but im am far from used to it these days. I try to preserve it and hence it spends more time in the case than on my face :)
When will the MC10 because like you I want to have the best block in the world for valve flexibility speed and control.but trade offs are gap slotting and spit valves and accessories betterw/stomvi
seems like a lot of the people in here that prefer the bach play bach trumpets! seems like a bit of bias in my opinion, intonation sounded better on the stomvi. and tone is hard to get across on a video so no comment there. which do you prefer to play feel wise?
Good observation there Hydro. there is a cult following with Bach trumpets. I used to be one of them. A good Bach does play great! Getting a Bach off the shelf to be as good as the previous Bach off the shelf is not so reliable. I will make a blind video like this some day (Hopefully soon) and see who prefers what then. :)
I personally feel like this wasnt a true test. The reason being is that the sound was altered atificially. play it in a room with either no reverb, or in a big hall with lots of it without the needing to enhance the audio.
Hi Lous, No test over the Internet is going to be a “true test” this is merely an example of the 2 instruments side by side same player, same excerpts, same room, same reverb (no other EQ or compression). The only way to get a true test is to go and play the horn yourself. Happy practising.
Bach definitely.... rounder, richer and more silky..... tongues better.... more full esp in lower register.... did notice an out of tune Eb, something I've found on mine too, whereas the Stomvi same note was fine...... overall, Bach any day.... and wow... you've looked after it so well 😁😁😁
Phill I really enjoyed the comparison. For me the Stomvi was my choice because it sounded like it was filled better. What was the bore size of the Stomvi? For 40 years I have played a Bach 37 serial # 50242. It is gold plated with a lightweight tunable bell and amado water keys. I also use a regular weight bell for classical work. So it can be configured 4 ways by using tuning slide or bell suited in playing situation indoor or outdoor. I am retired from playing due to health reasons and miss it greatly but for me the Stomvi fits you better
Thanks John. To be honest I’m not sure if the bore size. The Stomvi comes with 2 leadpipes, 2 tuning slides (the bell crook is the tuning slide), and 2 bells. I use the #1 bell, #25 tuning slide and the #27 bell. I have played with the setup several times and find this one works best for me. Sorry to hear you are no longer playing. I would love it if you shared your experiences by continuing to comment on this channel. Cheers, Phill
I couldn't agree more Lance. This is why I put together this comparison. I might do the same comparison and have each instrument unknown to the listener to see if people can guess accurately.
I am amused by all the people who say the Bach is warmer, fuller or darker when the sound is so close on this video. If you used the sound clip from the Stomvi while showing a Bach played 80% of the replies would have been the same, guaranteed!!
That depends on the horn. I really like the rotary trumpets. They play great. The meister is the most common schagerl in Australia. I found it to be a bit stuffy for me.
I usually have a hard time hearing differences in such tests with two instruments to close in quality, but I have to say the Bach sounded a lot more pleasant here.
The differences are so minor that I would start to compare the other aspects ( ease of playing in general and ease of high notes) It's like both the Bach and Stomvi are orchestral instruments and not particularly the first choice for big band.(?)
This highlights exactly why I made this video. The players concept of sound has more to do with the outcome than the instrument itself. Plenty of ppl play big band on both of these instruments proving they can be used anywhere.
@@PhillONeillTrumpet Hey dear Phil, I never tried a Stomvi, even never played a Bach but noticed how quite a few (amateur) players on Bach had certain notes that sprang out because of intonation problems to my taste so I never wanted one. I didn't google your name sir, but you sound obviously from the first notes like a rarely gifted soloist. About that big band remark: well, I can play high and loud but not for long and I noticed how small bored , light, bright instruments helped me a bit.So I would not choose myself for that kind of setting these noble majestic instruments here but yes of course many other players would find them excellent for this job too.
Exactly. Match the player to the horn. If you feel good playing a smaller horn then continue playing the smaller horn. Thanks for your kind words. I just really enjoy playing the trumpet. :)
They're both gorgeous, but I slightly favor the Stomvi over the Bach--slightly more overtones in the sound and better intonation. I've never seen a Mt. Vernon in such beautiful condition, however. Is that the original plating on the horn?
Hi Bryan. I believe the Mt. Vernon is as it came from the factory. The previous owner said he had minor dents removed and general servicing but nothing other than that.
The Stomvi seems much easier to play. You can hear the Bach shutting down in the upper register. The Stomvi is more resonant everywhere and sounds more responsive in the lower register with more overtones. Perhaps that's why some folks seem to think it is brighter. More resonance and overtones is always a good thing if you ask me. Great playing on both horns. You can see the fundamental design of both horns is very different which explains many of the comments.
Good analysis David. U have nailed it right there. The horns are designed completely differently and you can hear it in the response and overtones. Thanks for your input.
Yup the Bach Z bracing and huge solder points keep the bell from resonating and the Stomvi C shaped reverse tuning slide makes the slotting more slippery. Looks like there is a little more mass at the leadpipe receiver for efficiency and I'm sure there are tremendous differences at the bell. I bet that's huge fun to play.
Now that I’ve done some research on the Stomvi Master I see that’s not a reverse tuning slide but an interchangeable tuning slide so you can customize the leadpipe. Tuning is done with a removable bell crook. That horn is crazy cool!
Based on looks, the Stomvi looks GREAT!! Now in terms of sound, I think they sounded quite similar, although the Bach seemed to me significantly more centered and the sound more restrained (?), while the Stomvi indeed sounded more edgy.. It must be lighter also judging by it's sound.. In 2-3/5 clips when you played with the Stomvi you sounded dirtier.. which means, to my mind, either that you got tired in the process, or the Stomvi is less controllable, or more resistant to your blow.. These are my humble thoughts. You play great anyway!
Thanks for getting in touch Plithos. It's funny you say that the Bach sounds easier, in reality the Stomvi was a lot easier to play. Good to hear your thoughts. What horn are you playing?
Bach takes my vote, despite its slightly loose slotting down low. There's more variation to the tone with the bach, which, which sounds more free and open and blossoms nicely as you crescendo. You intuitively express emotion via dynamics more naturally on the Bach. I hear a slightly annoying prominence to the attacks on the Stomvi ( nitpicking here, but it's not there on the Bach). Finally, the tone of the bach remains consistent through your dynamic changes, while the Stomvi goes from very mellow to slightly thin and edgy as you crescendo. These differences are all very subtle in extent, and you sound fantastic on both.
@@날아라고추참치 The first piece being played in the demo is the Haydn Trumpet concerto. The intro piece which is used for many of my UA-cam introductions is a fanfare that I wrote specifically for my UA-cam channel. I hope this helps.
What would be a constructive comment? First that the two (I think) aren’t that far apart. I know vague. Well the sound that comes out is as much influenced by the player as by an instrument and it’s construction. Your double tonguing points that out. I suspect that what I heard as a difference had to do with the feel of the horn and just how comfortable it felt for you to execute that. I could also hear a difference in one spot where you were climbing into the upper registers where the stromv got harsh and at the same time appeared to increase in volume vs the Bach version. Whether that was something influenced by what you were doing or simply the difference between two different horns I don’t know. You’ve alluded to the Stromv being easier to play so I don’t know. That just brings to mind someone describing a rotary valve trumpets difference in the upper registers being much different from a regular trumpet and requiring much less force or push. As far as the horns tonal characteristics or differences. I own a Bach Strad 180s37 from the early 70’s. I know that sound. The one that I can only describe as ringing bell like. Full and rich. That sound quality is what drew me to that trumpet as I tried others. I heard some of that as you played but not as much as I expected. The Stromv sounded slightly thinner. And just for the playing I heard one definitely if not more out of tune notes. Some of that may have been fatigue, nerves for an audience or just not paying attention using your ear. That would also be helped by knowing well the piece you are playing. Being able to play and play well isn’t a result of having a brand new Bach, Stromv or a sought after MV in your hands. It is about doing the work and then being able to take what you hear in your head and put that out where others can hear it too.
I think both horns are great, but the Mount Vernon has a better classical sound. I feel the Stormvi would be better in Jazz or Swing. I wouldn’t mind owning either horn though. They both have beautiful sound.
Phill O'Neill I played and stopped about 35 years ago to go into US Army. I have only recently picked a horn back up and it is a King Legend with a .462 bore. I liked the sound it had when I tried it out and the price was right. I only play in church these days as I have many health conditions and am on disability due to those conditions. I very much enjoy your videos. You are quite an artist. You have a superb sound and great Classical style. I have a more Swing style. I listened to your video twice more and I will give it to you. I did prefer the Stormvi in the end. But, you would make any horn sound great. Cheers.
Thanks Dave very kind of you to say this. It’s great to see you have picked up the horn after 35 years off! I have a soft spot for service personnel. Serving and ex serving. From one former military member to another thanks for your service. Next year I will be releasing a series on the Clarke technical studies book and how to get the most from it. Keep an eye out for it on my website www.philloneill.com Cheers
Se escuchan muy parecidas, como dice alguien en los comentarios, lo importante es como le acomoda mejor al ejecutante. Para mí la Bach es de sonido más sólido, fuerte, con cierta dureza, tal vez menos flexible. La Stomvi es vibrante, seguramente por la campana laqueada pero su sonido es más redondo. Para mí las dos son buenas, es cuestión de preferencia personal. A mí de momento, me sorprende el sonido de la Bach, pero al final prefiero la Stomvi. ¡Felicidades a Phill es un gran trompetista!
@@PhillONeillTrumpet They sound very similar, as someone says in the comments, the important thing is how it best accommodates the performer. For me the Bach sound is more solid, stronger, with a certain hardness, perhaps less flexible. The Stomvi is vibrant, probably because of the lacquered bell but its sound is more round. Both are good for me, it's a matter of personal preference. At the moment, I am surprised by the sound of the Bach, but in the end I prefer the Stomvi. Congratulations to Phill he is a great trumpeter!
@@PhillONeillTrumpet by the way, you play very well! Have you played the Bach NY 43 "centennial" trumpet, vs the Bach 19037 from the Elhart's "50th anniversary" production? Which one would you buy first? Thanks!
I’ve played a lot of Bach’s tbh. I don’t remember a lot of the details truth be told. I’m the sort of person who picks up a horn and if it feels good play it if it doesn’t keep looking. You seem to like vintage Bach’s. Do you have a big collection?
No Phill, I am just a music lover, and I play a bit of trumpet. I only have a Yamaha (basic) trumpet, and a Bach Strad C trumpet, from the 90s when I had more time to study. So, among these two trumpets a previously mentioned, if you ever had a chance to play one, which one would it be? based on product description and other demo videos? Please pick one ;)
It pains me greatly to say this more than you know. I think I like the Bach better. That was hard to get out. That said it was just for the selections you played. Not only am I not a huge fan of Bach trumpets but I tend to like a warmer sound over all but not in this case. The Stomvi has a warmer sound maybe a tad darker but not enough to matter really. It just seems like in this case with your playing style and sound like the Stomvi was a bit flat and missing a bit of the full harmonic spectrum. It is strange I like the Stomvi V-Raptor and V-Raptor II but not the Stomvi Master model. It is not just you either I find that I seldom run into anyone playing the Stomvi Master that I actually like the sound. Same thing applies to the Jupiter Roger Ingram(sp) model I can count on 1 hand how many people sound good on it. That said when you do run across one it sounds incredible. Sam thing goes for the Martin Committee maybe 1 out of 10 I hear playing one sounds good but wow when you do get that 1 out of 10 it is incredible! The only thing that counts though is what you think! Thanks for sharing I enjoyed it! Oh and they both sound great I just like you and the Bach as a combo better! Obviously it is never just the artist or the gear it is always the two together and the musical selection matters too!
This is all positive feedback! With soo many different makes of trumpet and each having slight differences. My main point that seems to come across in this video is that when a player plays different horns they will ultimately create the sound in their head. In this video most ppl seem to be saying the 2 instruments stack up closely to each other. Mind you Bach has been commented as a fan favourite so far. It’s hard to say weather it’s been the favourite because of the reputation of the mt. Vernon or if that is what is being heard. Maybe I’ll do a blind test and see what the results are then.
Here’s another view that more closely matches my perception. I admire your ability to describe what differences you hear personally. Most people are saying the Stomvi sounds brighter to them, but I think it sounds a tad warmer/darker. I loved what I perceived as a brighter sound from the Bach, and I happen to own several Stomvis but no Bachs. I loved the sound of both horns, really, but this is mostly because of the ability of the player. I am amused, but certainly not surprised, by the reviews that say the Bach is “definitely better” without articulating any differences they hear.
The instruments are good because the player is good. That's why companies ask good players to highlight their instruments. Close your eyes and the difference is not meaningful because it's the same musician.
That's very kind you you to say Luis. I agree that the sound in a players head is the sound that comes out the bell. Playing an instrument that feels good is what I place in the highest importance.
@@PhillONeillTrumpet My favorite horn? At this moment (of those I own) I'd have to say my 1980 Bach 37, followed closely by a Schilke B1 and 1973 Bach 37. Around these parts we don't see much in play beyond Bach, Schilke and Yamaha (which has come on strong in recent years). BTW... I really like your videos. However us Yanks don't know from crotches (?) quavers and semi-quavers. Gotta speak Yankee English mate :).
When I played in the Army band I went through the store room and found a beautiful 1980’s Bach. I didn’t want to give that back when I left. In Australia most ppl play Bach or Yamaha too. It takes something special to get ppl to change gear.
@@PhillONeillTrumpet I think the biggest factor in most peoples' choices is availability. The second is the sheeple factor. Back in the day if you didn't play Bach you were odd. My first pro horn was a 69 Getzen Eterna (pre-Amado key). I still have it, but it plays a little small. Yamaha is a marketing juggernaut and goes after the big name pros. I think the Chicago Symphony trumpets now play Yamahas when a few years ago it was Bach. Schilke is another brand you see in Chicago due to them being a local company. Yamaha has based some of their designs off of Schilke.
Totally agree. Availability is such a huge factor that and a lot of students will tend to play what their teacher recommends them to play. And so they should. No one will know a students playing better than their teacher. And then there is the other side where some ppl have played the same brand of horn for decades and enjoy it so don’t want to change.
Phil, I play on a Zeno and on a Raw Brass trumpet made by Ben Zagrean from Oregon. I play all types of music. Always dig listening to a good horn player play. And you my friend, are a very good horn player!
Bach is darker, Stomvi is crisp. I would use both. Each has its own sound.
As a trumpeter for many years I prefer the Mount Vernon but with a small distance to the Stomvi.. Bach is richer in sound and the sound is beautiful🎺🎺🎺
David Ridge here. I own a 1964 Strad, have had so many ask me to sell it to them. Fabulous trumpet. I might be biased, but certainly the strad was every bit the equal or better. Mostlt, just listening without looking, it was hard to detect much difference, which tells me the stimvi must be a great horn, as the Bach certainly is.
They both sound good. The Bach has a much fuller sound. Which one is easier to play? By sound alone, I prefer this Bach over this Stomvi.
Bach is richer.. Stomvi is a little "edgy." Both are good horns, but I prefer the Bach.
both good hardly any difference but the stomvi bell probably makes the difference stomvi a little warmer to my ear?
I am happy to hear this side by side comparison. I wish people would do more of these!
Side by side comparisons work quite well. They can be expensive buying different horns though. :)
@@PhillONeillTrumpet these are the two horns I've been considering buying, so I'm very grateful for your taking the time to do this comparison!
@@edstud1 glad to hear it. What are you playing now? The Stomvi master is a lot more free blowing than the Bach. I would strongly recommend checking out the Stomvi classica with the gold wash bell also. ua-cam.com/video/2Wtt2qji9tU/v-deo.html
I am not very experienced, but I just loved the Bach. I have been haunting the 'net for the last month listening to the best trumpet sounds I can find, so I am tuned in a bit. I could not really say why, but the Bach just seemed smoother and absolutely uniform throughout, whilst still having a lovely cutting edge to get your attention. You play like an absolute demon Mr. Phil.! Fantastic.
Hi Chris, Thanks for your kind words. It sounds like you have chosen what your next instrument will be. Exciting times ahead. When are you planning to get out?
Cheers
Phil
very similar, great demonstration, thanks.
My primary Bb is a Model 37 Strad (1978). My primary piccolo trumpet is a Stomvi Elite. Both are great horns, but I enjoy playing the pic immensely. It just feels better. Definitely more enjoyable than any Schilke P5-4 I've played.
The elite piccolo is a very easy picc to play. Probably the most free blowing picc ive played to date!!! Glad to hear youre enjoying it too
Great video, it’s you that makes the real difference. Excellent playing
I had a mt vernon bach 1964 too. But sold it in 1976. Oh boy. I like both horns you played.
Thanks Wayne,
They've write valuable these days. Ive been offered more than double what I paid for it. Don't think I can bring myself to sell it though.
@@PhillONeillTrumpet my grandfather was bunny berigan he played on a conn. Anyway Jerry Callett had bought it off of someone who own it. Jerome sold it for 6.000 dollars. A conn 22 i think.
That’s a pretty cool story. I bet your grandfather would have told some amazing stories!
Very similar. I guess it is mostly a question of what you feel more at ease playing.
love the dark tone in the low register on the Stomvi. Can't go wrong with a strad of course but that master is a great sounding horn
It's a pretty incredible piece of kit. Having intonation and sound this consistent and being able to change bells, leadpipes and bell crooks is something special.
@@PhillONeillTrumpet absolutely. I might invest in one in the near future. I have to earn it first though lol.
Two fantastic horns! So surprising that a new Stomvi can be so comparable to a prime Bach. Wonderful video!
Thanks Camrun.
Glad you liked the comparison.
Recently got a Stomvi Forte (1989) well maintained but clearly never played. No wear and tear even for light use. It had sat on a display shelf of a music store that changed ownership in the 90's to a less brass friendly music store. My luck. With both Bb and C tuning slides it is one of the most relaxing trumpets I've played. Like it better than a Yamaha Xeno. Really like the format of your comparison and the effort you took to even the scales.
Nice score!!! Are you enjoying playing it?
I got my Forte in about 2002. I preferred it over the Elite in the shop despite being much cheaper. It has had hundreds of hours use, a few dings and the gold has rubbed of the top of the valve buttons, but it still sounds good.
Wear and tear is a sign of a well used horn! No one enjoys playing a horn they don’t feel and sound good on so keep up the good work!
I agree with mr. Taylor. Both were very good sounding. I think in my opinion the Bach had a much richer tone. I have 5 Trumpets. the two of my Favorites are My King For tonal quality. My Olds for the valve action.
Hi Edward,
What do you like about the tone from the king?
Which olds do you have? I have the Mendez Recording at home. pretty cool horn.
They both sound great, Stomvi a little more precise and brilliant. You should do more comparisons like this.
Glad you like it Andrei. I’ll see what I can do.
I prefer Bach. May I make a question? What Bach Strad. Trumpet do you prefer Phill, BACH ARTISAN AB190S or BACH NEW YORK 190S43W2 CENTENNIAL? Thank you!
I have played Bach Artisan but not the New York so I cannot compare them. I prefer to play Stomvi trumpets. Best of luck with your next trumpet purchase.
@@PhillONeillTrumpet thanks for the response Phill, it's so difficult to pick out between the same brand. Why do you prefer Stomvi? You are Stomvi artist, why do you consider Stomvi better than Bach?
Thats a fantastic question. Firstly the stomvi feels better to play. It has the perfect balance between openness and existence to help me play easier.
The intonation is more consistent. I dont have to manipulate the D, Eb, E at the top of the stave as much as I did on any Bach.
The stomvi is much more consistent among all of their instruments. Each version of the same horn that I've played is exactly the same as every other version of it. Unlike Bach, you can have 2 of the same horn and they feel completely different.
Articulation really pops easily on the Stomvi.
These are some of the reasons I really like playing Stomvi trumpets. As an artist I still pay for my instruments (there is a discount but is a tighter margin than most people think) and im happy to do so because they are great to play. I have had offers for sponsorship deals with other manufacturers but at the end of the day I need to believe in the product in addicts with.
You were great on both
Thanks.
They are both very,very close. I felt the Bach was somewhat better though.
Thanks for getting in touch Norman.
What are you playing?
Phill O'Neill . I play on a Bach 37 Trp.
Yeah, super close. Stomvi was a little more "splatty"
NOT even close. Stomvi is quite problematic when he pushes the horn.
Both are solid and sound great. There are some differences, but I'll bet none of us could tell which one you were playing if there were no video and you didn't tell us. That would be a great true test! I find it fun that people hear the exact same differences between them, but attributed to either/or in reverse fashion. Many simply gave their preference, which is fine. Then there are those who will always like the Bach better, as long as they know they're listening to a Bach.
good point made here Brian. Some people will only find a Bach a good horn choice and that's fine
I have since upgraded my desktop sound system, so am now hearing the differences in very high fidelity. The 2 horns are very close. To my ears, the difference is harmonics. The Bach produces more audible harmonics, and thus sounds a tad richer in this close-encounter style of recording. The Stomvi harmonics are there, but slightly less in amplitude. This comparison should be done in a concert hall. I suspect the Stomvi may 'project' a tad better, due to the more focused sound. For tone, in this recording, I still prefer the Bach overall. Both are stellar horns. For purchase, I would choose based upon ease of play. @Phil: you have excellent tone and skills. the 1.25 is a demanding mouthpiece.
Hi Rob,
Good to hear you coming back to this after upgrading your speakers.
This video has become more popular than I ever thought possible. I think I may need to do more comparison videos and actually test some of the theories people are having.
Happy practising
Of the reviews I read, this the one that most closely parallels my thoughts. Although I did not have a chance to listen in high definition stereo, I thought the Bach had more of the higher harmonics, i.e. I thought it was brighter than the Stomvi. Phil mentions the Stomvi bell is copper and I expect it is gold-plated. Although their gold-plated brass bells are supposed to be brighter than their solid silver bells, I don’t know how gold-plated copper would compare. I expect it would be darker than gold-plated brass, but how might it compare to solid silver? (I have a friend who has a Stomvi flugelhorn with raw copper bell, and man, that horn is really dark!) Anyway, I thought the articulation of both horns sounded similar. I don’t know how much difference i might perceive in the (comparatively poor) sound I would personally be able to attain with either, but it is great to hear these horns compared by a real master. Both sound beautiful. I think I’d prefer the sound of the Bach in situations where I wanted the sound to be brighter.
For the record, my main horn is a Stomvi Elite lightweight model that I bought new at a very attractive price nearly 20 years ago. I had only heard of Stomvi a little over a year before that because at that time, I bought a Stomvi Classica for my son, then a High School sophomore. It was the one he liked best after trying several horns.
I also have a Stomvi Combi (with a gold-plated brass bell and a solid silver bell) that I play rarely for special occasions. I don’t own any Bachs. When I originally bought my Stomvi Elite lightweight, I was comparing it to a few new Bachs, a Conn Vintage 1 with a fixed, solid silver bell. I chose the Stomvi because it seemed to require less air. It just seemed easier to play. On that day, with me playing the horn, the soundI was able to achieve seemed better. Since I only planned at that point to play for my own enjoyment, I was way more concerned with value, ease of play and how the horn sounded to me while I was playing it versus how it would sound to others. I bought the Combi second hand and I chose it based on reputation, condition and price without having played the horn. I also have a Stomvi Elite flugelhorn purchase second hand.
In summary, if I was horn shopping for a really high end horn like these, I would hope to try several side-by-side and see how I could make them sound.
Great playing, really enjoyable , thank you. Bach has it all the way for me.
Let's just first be clear on how beautiful each horn sounded. Personally I like the Bach sound and I'm partial to the Bach, but the Stomvi sounded much more "natural" and easier which in turn leads to a better performance.
It’s an interesting experiment isn’t it Logan
I agree with Alan's assessment below. Bach was definitely a warmer sound the Stomvi a bit cutting in its sound...Both very nice
Thanks for your comment BrassThunder. Is there another trumpet you would like me to compare to the Bach?
@@PhillONeillTrumpet Maybe a Large Bore Bach and a Large Bore Schilke. I have a Bronx New York Strad and a early 80's Model 43 which plays very open compared to my 37 and if you ever get the chance check out a 70's Model 72 ML RL I tried a friends and honestly think it may be one I would revert to something illegal to get one.....Just kidding. I went to Bach's first Bach Fest back in 2017 and was disappointed they didn't have a single LB to try. I haven't found one in any Store either and I don't just buy without putting some time on it.....
Mates of mine here in Sydney have had a few large bore Bach’s. Usually 1980’s. I’ll see if any of them have one lying around and get another comparison for u.
I like the Stomvi
Both sound excellent, but to get picky... I like the Stomvi-the harmonic profile is tighter in the extreme high and low pitches which makes it more resonant-and I think that's what some previous comments have called "brighter?" Mr. O'Neill seems to be working harder on the Bach, judging from his facial expressions. The triple tonguing in the last excerpt sounds easier and cleaner on the Stomvi equipment.
Thanks Shawn,
Interesting observation. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Thanks for the video, very interesting and very nice playing too. I also rock a Bach (large bore 25 bell to which I replaced the leadpipe with a 43)and a Stomvi Master C trumpet and find them to be very different in feel but this video kind of confirms what I've always thought when comparing trumpets - that we generally just sound distinctively like ourselves more than anything else when switching instruments. I think it feels a lot more different from the players point of view than the listeners. You sounded pretty much like you on both horns. The Stomvi was a bit brighter but there wasn't much in it. I find my Stomvi plays itself more than my Bach or Kanstul. The 'slots' are more precisely defined and locked in than my other horns.
Thanks for joining in amigomatt.
I think you’re the first person with the same opinion as me with this. :)
I honestly could not tell the difference. Both are fantastic horns. Intonation and resonance sounded precisely the same.
The way Vincent Bach designed his receiver was for his Bach MPCS, the same w Schilke-Mr. Schilke made Schilke receiver's to securely fit Schilke MPCS best-the Stomvi sounds more resonate but the Bach more compact like the 37 bell should sound-remember, with a more "commercial" MPC, the characteristic's would change on both horns somewhat
I recently purchased a stomvi VRII, overall, like it better than Bb Bach strad. more importantly, the mouthpieces feel more comfortable
Finally, I found a competent trumpeter to give an honest comparison! Thanks to Phil! Myself, I hear excellent tone from both, but prefer the Bach for the tunes chosen. The Stomvi might be excellent for the big band sound, using say a 2C mouthpiece. How are the valves on the Stomvi?
Hi Rob,
Thanks for your kind words.
The valves on both my Bach and Stomvi are awesome!!!
I’m super strict with valves I really hate sluggish valves so I spend a lot of time working them in.
@@PhillONeillTrumpet Thanks for note. My Strad has very sluggish valves. Your note gives me hope my valves can be reworked properly.
Its difficult to bring sluggish valves back from the grave so to speak. A lot easier to get them working great from new. Try to be disciplined with hand posture and how you push the valves down every time you play. And always keep your valves clean.
Good luck.
I know these comments are a year old but my strad had slow valves and simply changing valve oil from Bach to blue juice fixed it, worth a try I suppose
I own Stomvi master. I tried many combinations but couldn't find the best setting yet. What is your setting?
I felt the Stromvi had a clearer/cleaner intonation and was a bit brighter in the upper register. The Haydn high E-flat was slightly flat on the Bach. The articulation seemed easier on the Stromvi in the Shahrazod passage--are the valves faster on the stromvi? I'd take the Stromvi if given a choice.
Albert (mainly a cornet fanatic, (Favorite: Olds super}. My trumpet is Kanstul international
The valves are pretty fast on both horns. I’m very particular when it comes to valves :).
Hi Phil, nice playing. Although I am a Bach fanatic, I have to say the Stomvi definitely suits you best :)
Hi Ricky,
thanks for your input. Which trumpet are you playing atm?
The Stomvi had a clearer, more robust, sound. Wow!!
Bach. Slightly richer, silky. Stomvi distinctively edgy in higher register.
People hear so differently, I hear exactly the opposite.
That’s the beauty of opinions. Everyone
S is different
Stomvi sounds like it slots better in the upper register.
You play brilliant.!
Thanks. It has taken me many years with many hours of practice listening and research to get to where I am at today. Compliments like this make me feel like it was worth it. Thank you
Sounded pretty much alike. (both great) Which one is better/easier to play? That's the question now.
I prefer the feel of the Stomvi. Especially between middle C and G just above the stave. It just slots nicely in that register when I find I need to manipulate the Bach a fair bit to play in tune there.
Not surprised. I like the Stomvi products. I have a Stomvi mouthpiece and it works wonderful for me.
Everything sounds better on the Stomvi. You sound like you feel at ease on it. The Stomvi is slightly brighter. More importantly, you are controlling the "gas pedal" on that brightness intuitively. As you go higher, the Stomvi's brightness gives it a sweetness which you capitalize on. The Stomvi also articulates better, and has a more even rich sound in the low register.
Thanks Randall, it's good to hear each persons personal view on it.
do you play trumpet? what horn do you play?
I like them both. However, like a lot of others, I slightly prefer the Bach. It’s not “just” a Bach, though. It’s a Mt. Vernon Bach. I’d like to see the comparison again with a Bach of the same vintage as the Stomvi.
You sound great on both horns. I have done the same thing between my horns comparing them to each other. One thing I notice when I do that is I always play a little better the second time. Even though you know what your playing very well it’s always a little easier after just playing it. I also unconsciously feel like the horn I want to play better I try a little harder without trying too. I believe as an artist endorsing Stomvi you were trying to prove that a Stomvi plays as well or better than a Mt Vernon Bach. Also keep in mind the several custom modifications you have on the Stomvi for it to respond exactly how you want it. So straight up the contest is biased towards the Stomvi. I’m sure there are many people who would be willing to trade you the same Stomvi for your Mt. Vernon. You are a fantastic player who could make any horn sound it’s best. I play on a Scodwell USA Trumpet but alas I must admit I am a Bach Loyalist. Every horn I have has a quality that the others haven’t and I choose which one to use depending on the music. I’m sure you will not be trading or selling that Mt. Vernon.
Hi Wayne,
Very true observation, usually the 2nd excerpt is slightly better than the first. You never part with a classic like a Mt. Vernon. I feel like the Stomvi is easier to play and then leaves me to think music rather than technique.
This Stomvi has no modifications. As is off the shelf. I found the leadpipe and bell combo I liked that was in the case straight from the shop.
Thanks for joining in.
Hi Phill
Has either horn had a valve alignment ?
I havent done any work to either horn. Im not sure if the bach has had an alignment done by previous owner. Jon Ruff from Stomvi USA used to work with Bob Reeves, he made sure all Stomvi trumpet leave the factory with that kind of alignment as stock.
I don’t follow the bit about the “custom modifications on the Stomvi” mentioned by this author, since Phil makes the comment in the video about the Stomvi being “off the shelf.” Stomvi Masters come with interchangeable bells, lead pipes, crooks etc. so you can choose what suits you. I think Phil did a very credible job of describing the horns and playing them in as unbiased way as anyone could. In my opinion, saying that Phil biased this comparison toward one horn or the other is an insult.
Bach is Bach.Never tried Stovi but it seems light and possibly after you get tired it’s core might disappear and sound becomes trombone like .Would you sell Bach?
Please, can somebody recommend me trumpet for not professional player? I'm thinking of buying Yamaha YTR-4335 GS, is there a better option?
That will be fine its a good value for money Trumpet.
I really like the Stomvi Classica as another option. you can find my review on it here.
ua-cam.com/video/r13t-k8AzOg/v-deo.html
At the end of the day you should play as many different options and go with what feels the best to play for you.
#HappyPractising
To me the Bach sounds a little more fuller and rounder with an outstanding sound no doubt due in no small measure to the player and is perfectly suited to orchestral and solo playing, the Stomvi is close. I myself play a 1974 Bach Strad 25 made in Elkhart Indiana which I bought new.
Thanks mossimmo,
I used to have a 1980 Strad as well as this 1964 my Vernon. They are completely different horns. Both were good though.
@@PhillONeillTrumpet I keep listing to this vid and the more I listen the more I favor the Bach as the reasons I mentioned above and I might add that the Bach sounds as though it is on a rock solid foundation sound wise and has weight to it`s core not so much the Stomvi. I could listen to you play on the Bach all day long but I know you find the Stomvi easier to play. The Bach I play also has this quality with weight and beauty of sound. You could knock down the walls of Jericho with that Bach sound.
Lol. Thanks Mossimmo,
Better bring down those walls :)
Phil you are a great play they both are great horns but I feel like the strad has better intonation
Thanks Dorian,
What do you play on?
Hi Phil sorry for the late reply but I play on a Bach Strad 72
@@doriandavis6822 Thats a nice horn. I played one of those for a while.
Yeah I love the intonation
In my humble opinion the Strad had brighter sound more broad, projection the Stomvi a bit darker more focused the Bach was spot on in intonation through out the ranges. I seemed to detect minor intonation issues with the Stomvi . Your 16ths sounded more focused on the Bach and the Stomvi appeared to fight you . The tuning slide on both are radically different in curve . the question I have is which horn played more efficient for you ? some of the Stomvi forte upper register was edgy almost too harsh/ cringy . Just my take .
They both feel like great horns. To me, when I consistently play the Stomvi it feels better than the Bach.
One this I do prefer from the Bach to the Stomvi is the 1 piece bell. The Stomvi master is a 2 piece bell.
The Stomvi Titan is a 1 piece bell and I think with the same setup on my master in the Titan I would find that the perfect horn!!!
Thanks what do you feel is the difference in playing a one piece to a two piece bell ?
I feel the 2 piece bell dampens the sound a little where the 1 piece bell rings out a bit more.
On the master it’s only a very small thing it’s such an amazing instrument to play it’s only after playing it everyday for a year that I’ve started to think this.
I prefer the Stomvi. You sound great on both.
You sound great ! What is the experience for you ? Watching your trigger action (3rd piston) . Great sound !
I found the master far easier to play than the Bach. Especially the intonation. The typical flat D, Eb, E top of the stave is just effortless on the stomvi.
Bach is a great trumpet, Mt Vernon is the cream of the crop and whoever has one is a lucky player . This is the trumpet Michelle Lacerenza RIP used in all spaghetti western solos. In this video stomvi has a 27 bell VS 37 Bach, this may sound a little but in this video one can tell the effect where Bach has darker warmer sound and stomvi is much brighter especially in higher registers.
Bach sound very dark and distinctive. You are partial to it. It can be heard in your "sound". Gap is less in Bach than in Stomvi giving it that distinctive 'presence'.
it is a pretty nice horn I must admit but im am far from used to it these days. I try to preserve it and hence it spends more time in the case than on my face :)
When will the MC10 because like you I want to have the best block in the world for valve flexibility speed and control.but trade offs are gap slotting and spit valves and accessories betterw/stomvi
Hi Richard, I don't understand what you're saying
It would help if you knew which bell was on the Bach
Hi Kris,
It’s the standard weight 37 bell.
@@PhillONeillTrumpet I thought as much. Many copy the 37. Kanstul did a nice 37 as well. Even the cheap F. Schmidt sounded right.
seems like a lot of the people in here that prefer the bach play bach trumpets! seems like a bit of bias in my opinion, intonation sounded better on the stomvi. and tone is hard to get across on a video so no comment there. which do you prefer to play feel wise?
Good observation there Hydro.
there is a cult following with Bach trumpets. I used to be one of them. A good Bach does play great! Getting a Bach off the shelf to be as good as the previous Bach off the shelf is not so reliable.
I will make a blind video like this some day (Hopefully soon) and see who prefers what then. :)
I personally feel like this wasnt a true test. The reason being is that the sound was altered atificially. play it in a room with either no reverb, or in a big hall with lots of it without the needing to enhance the audio.
Hi Lous,
No test over the Internet is going to be a “true test” this is merely an example of the 2 instruments side by side same player, same excerpts, same room, same reverb (no other EQ or compression). The only way to get a true test is to go and play the horn yourself.
Happy practising.
Phill O'Neill I guess you are right about that . Thanks for letting me know
Stomvi Titàn?
Bach definitely.... rounder, richer and more silky..... tongues better.... more full esp in lower register.... did notice an out of tune Eb, something I've found on mine too, whereas the Stomvi same note was fine...... overall, Bach any day.... and wow... you've looked after it so well 😁😁😁
Is a bit of a collector's piece now days. 😀
@@PhillONeillTrumpet pure beauty 😊😊😊
Phill I really enjoyed the comparison. For me the Stomvi was my choice because it sounded like it was filled better. What was the bore size of the Stomvi? For 40 years I have played a Bach 37 serial # 50242. It is gold plated with a lightweight tunable bell and amado water keys. I also use a regular weight bell for classical work. So it can be configured 4 ways by using tuning slide or bell suited in playing situation indoor or outdoor. I am retired from playing due to health reasons and miss it greatly but for me the Stomvi fits you better
Thanks John.
To be honest I’m not sure if the bore size. The Stomvi comes with 2 leadpipes, 2 tuning slides (the bell crook is the tuning slide), and 2 bells.
I use the #1 bell, #25 tuning slide and the #27 bell. I have played with the setup several times and find this one works best for me.
Sorry to hear you are no longer playing. I would love it if you shared your experiences by continuing to comment on this channel.
Cheers,
Phill
I like the stomvi.better, it seems to be richer in sound..
When the sound is that close and they are VERY close it comes down to ease of play. I wish you would remark on that because of it's importance.
I couldn't agree more Lance. This is why I put together this comparison. I might do the same comparison and have each instrument unknown to the listener to see if people can guess accurately.
I am amused by all the people who say the Bach is warmer, fuller or darker when the sound is so close on this video. If you used the sound clip from the Stomvi while showing a Bach played 80% of the replies would have been the same, guaranteed!!
🤣
I liked the overall sound of the Stomvi better. Sounded less edgy and slightly more rounded or mellow.
Thanks Garry. It’s a great horn. Worth checking out if you’re in the market for a new horn.
Have you ever tried a Schargerl?
Yes I have played many of the Schargerl.
There is a lot to like with them. I find them to not be the horn for me.
@@PhillONeillTrumpet What are the detractors for Schargerl?
That depends on the horn. I really like the rotary trumpets. They play great.
The meister is the most common schagerl in Australia. I found it to be a bit stuffy for me.
@@PhillONeillTrumpet theres about 9 different 'meister' trumpets that schagerl makes, which ones have you tried?
@@MH-iv7tk Mostly the James Morrison model is the common model here in Australia. What do you play on?
I usually have a hard time hearing differences in such tests with two instruments to close in quality, but I have to say the Bach sounded a lot more pleasant here.
The MtVernon Bach is a masterpiece . Both horns sound about the same
Yes I agree they both sound similar. I think it's because I sound like me on basically any horn I play. Or at least a version of me :)
The Bach had the best sound to me, the Stomvi Master was nice, then again how easy were each to play, that should come into play as well.
The differences are so minor that I would start to compare the other aspects ( ease of playing in general and ease of high notes) It's like both the Bach and Stomvi are orchestral instruments and not particularly the first choice for big band.(?)
This highlights exactly why I made this video.
The players concept of sound has more to do with the outcome than the instrument itself.
Plenty of ppl play big band on both of these instruments proving they can be used anywhere.
@@PhillONeillTrumpet Hey dear Phil, I never tried a Stomvi, even never played a Bach but noticed how quite a few (amateur) players on Bach had certain notes that sprang out because of intonation problems to my taste so I never wanted one. I didn't google your name sir, but you sound obviously from the first notes like a rarely gifted soloist. About that big band remark: well, I can play high and loud but not for long and I noticed how small bored , light, bright instruments helped me a bit.So I would not choose myself for that kind of setting these noble majestic instruments here but yes of course many other players would find them excellent for this job too.
Exactly. Match the player to the horn. If you feel good playing a smaller horn then continue playing the smaller horn.
Thanks for your kind words. I just really enjoy playing the trumpet. :)
The Bach sound rich is good for classics.The Stomvi sound is poorer, but bright is good for pop music. I play on the Bach-43.
Thanks Valery.
They are very close for audience. Therefore the preference would come more from how the players feel when they play.
I’m putting 2:14 down to compare it to 2:42
How did your comparison go? Which did you prefer?
They're both gorgeous, but I slightly favor the Stomvi over the Bach--slightly more overtones in the sound and better intonation. I've never seen a Mt. Vernon in such beautiful condition, however. Is that the original plating on the horn?
Hi Bryan. I believe the Mt. Vernon is as it came from the factory. The previous owner said he had minor dents removed and general servicing but nothing other than that.
I bet you paid a pretty penny for it.
I’ve had it for quite a while now. It was a classic case of being in the right place at the right time.
For me Bach win!!
Bach for me. Stomvi very bright and piercing
The Stomvi seems much easier to play. You can hear the Bach shutting down in the upper register. The Stomvi is more resonant everywhere and sounds more responsive in the lower register with more overtones. Perhaps that's why some folks seem to think it is brighter. More resonance and overtones is always a good thing if you ask me. Great playing on both horns. You can see the fundamental design of both horns is very different which explains many of the comments.
Good analysis David. U have nailed it right there. The horns are designed completely differently and you can hear it in the response and overtones.
Thanks for your input.
Yup the Bach Z bracing and huge solder points keep the bell from resonating and the Stomvi C shaped reverse tuning slide makes the slotting more slippery. Looks like there is a little more mass at the leadpipe receiver for efficiency and I'm sure there are tremendous differences at the bell. I bet that's huge fun to play.
Now that I’ve done some research on the Stomvi Master I see that’s not a reverse tuning slide but an interchangeable tuning slide so you can customize the leadpipe. Tuning is done with a removable bell crook. That horn is crazy cool!
Yeah it’s a lot of fun to play. Go and test one out. I’m sure you’ll love it.
I bought one. Insane horn. So easy to play. It just rips and plays circles around a Bach.
ok...wow,etc...agreed w/majority...would have preferred the S3 VS MV 37 Having owned both. Adams 10 does not slot as well.Not for classico. Miss S3.
I enjoy playing the S3 but I feel the bell flare is a bit big for the majority of my playing.
Both are great horns, almost identical, Bach seems warmer, Stomvi screams in upper register, get both.....
Based on looks, the Stomvi looks GREAT!!
Now in terms of sound, I think they sounded quite similar, although the Bach seemed to me significantly more centered and the sound more restrained (?), while the Stomvi indeed sounded more edgy.. It must be lighter also judging by it's sound..
In 2-3/5 clips when you played with the Stomvi you sounded dirtier.. which means, to my mind, either that you got tired in the process, or the Stomvi is less controllable, or more resistant to your blow..
These are my humble thoughts.
You play great anyway!
Thanks for getting in touch Plithos. It's funny you say that the Bach sounds easier, in reality the Stomvi was a lot easier to play. Good to hear your thoughts. What horn are you playing?
Phill O'Neill I'm 'struggling' with a Schilke X3 Beryllium (L bore). Wonderful sound/harmonics, quite versatile, tiring to fill .. :p
Thats a nice horn. Check out my flow study videos, they will help you fill the horn
ua-cam.com/video/tJgX1eTNykQ/v-deo.html
Bach takes my vote, despite its slightly loose slotting down low. There's more variation to the tone with the bach, which, which sounds more free and open and blossoms nicely as you crescendo. You intuitively express emotion via dynamics more naturally on the Bach. I hear a slightly annoying prominence to the attacks on the Stomvi ( nitpicking here, but it's not there on the Bach). Finally, the tone of the bach remains consistent through your dynamic changes, while the Stomvi goes from very mellow to slightly thin and edgy as you crescendo. These differences are all very subtle in extent, and you sound fantastic on both.
Thats interesting you say that. What speakers/ headphones are you listening with?
@@PhillONeillTrumpet Nothing too special. Audio Technica M50x
Sounds to me like the Stomvi slots better, but I still prefer the bach sound overall.
What's the title of this song?
There are several different pieces being used in this video. Which one are you referring to?
First song!!!! Please
@@날아라고추참치 The first piece being played in the demo is the Haydn Trumpet concerto. The intro piece which is used for many of my UA-cam introductions is a fanfare that I wrote specifically for my UA-cam channel.
I hope this helps.
Both produce great sound.....the old Bach wins by 1/2 a point out of 10
I never thought to give them scores :)
Thanks Nicholas.
Both are nice Bach just out edged the Stormvi. Bach has a crispness at the end of the note the Stormvi doesn't.
What would be a constructive comment? First that the two (I think) aren’t that far apart. I know vague. Well the sound that comes out is as much influenced by the player as by an instrument and it’s construction. Your double tonguing points that out. I suspect that what I heard as a difference had to do with the feel of the horn and just how comfortable it felt for you to execute that. I could also hear a difference in one spot where you were climbing into the upper registers where the stromv got harsh and at the same time appeared to increase in volume vs the Bach version. Whether that was something influenced by what you were doing or simply the difference between two different horns I don’t know. You’ve alluded to the Stromv being easier to play so I don’t know. That just brings to mind someone describing a rotary valve trumpets difference in the upper registers being much different from a regular trumpet and requiring much less force or push.
As far as the horns tonal characteristics or differences. I own a Bach Strad 180s37 from the early 70’s. I know that sound. The one that I can only describe as ringing bell like. Full and rich. That sound quality is what drew me to that trumpet as I tried others. I heard some of that as you played but not as much as I expected. The Stromv sounded slightly thinner. And just for the playing I heard one definitely if not more out of tune notes. Some of that may have been fatigue, nerves for an audience or just not paying attention using your ear. That would also be helped by knowing well the piece you are playing.
Being able to play and play well isn’t a result of having a brand new Bach, Stromv or a sought after MV in your hands. It is about doing the work and then being able to take what you hear in your head and put that out where others can hear it too.
I think both horns are great, but the Mount Vernon has a better classical sound. I feel the Stormvi would be better in Jazz or Swing. I wouldn’t mind owning either horn though. They both have beautiful sound.
Thanks Dave.
Do you play?
Phill O'Neill I played and stopped about 35 years ago to go into US Army. I have only recently picked a horn back up and it is a King Legend with a .462 bore. I liked the sound it had when I tried it out and the price was right. I only play in church these days as I have many health conditions and am on disability due to those conditions.
I very much enjoy your videos. You are quite an artist. You have a superb sound and great Classical style. I have a more Swing style. I listened to your video twice more and I will give it to you. I did prefer the Stormvi in the end. But, you would make any horn sound great. Cheers.
Thanks Dave very kind of you to say this.
It’s great to see you have picked up the horn after 35 years off!
I have a soft spot for service personnel. Serving and ex serving. From one former military member to another thanks for your service.
Next year I will be releasing a series on the Clarke technical studies book and how to get the most from it.
Keep an eye out for it on my website
www.philloneill.com
Cheers
@@PhillONeillTrumpet Thanks for heads up on Clarke Technical Studies. I will be watching. And thank you for your service, Sir.
I ve got a Stomvi Master piccolo. If you want I can exchange It for your Mont Vernon
Haha. I’ve been offered a lot more than a piccolo for my Mt. Vernon.
I see...a lot of people cannot understand why are you playing stomvi having a Mt. Vernon hahaha
I don't understand it either.
Mr. Luis Ortega, I would like have a trumpet lesson if it is possible. Regards.
Hi Jose, thanks for getting in touch.
have you played either of these two trumpets before?
Bach has a fuller sound. Stomvi has a brighter, crispier sound.
Bach, but they both sounded good and full
Hi Tanner, welcome to my channel.
What do you like from the Bach that stood out?
Se escuchan muy parecidas, como dice alguien en los comentarios, lo importante es como le acomoda mejor al ejecutante. Para mí la Bach es de sonido más sólido, fuerte, con cierta dureza, tal vez menos flexible. La Stomvi es vibrante, seguramente por la campana laqueada pero su sonido es más redondo. Para mí las dos son buenas, es cuestión de preferencia personal. A mí de momento, me sorprende el sonido de la Bach, pero al final prefiero la Stomvi.
¡Felicidades a Phill es un gran trompetista!
I don’t speak Spanish. If you could ask again in English that would help me understand what your saying.
cheers,
Phill
@@PhillONeillTrumpet They sound very similar, as someone says in the comments, the important thing is how it best accommodates the performer. For me the Bach sound is more solid, stronger, with a certain hardness, perhaps less flexible. The Stomvi is vibrant, probably because of the lacquered bell but its sound is more round. Both are good for me, it's a matter of personal preference. At the moment, I am surprised by the sound of the Bach, but in the end I prefer the Stomvi.
Congratulations to Phill he is a great trumpeter!
The bach is richer,but at the end of the day, but that is still a very good horn
I was going to say Bach before listening. After listening, I still like Bach better :)
haha thats quite funny.
@@PhillONeillTrumpet by the way, you play very well! Have you played the Bach NY 43 "centennial" trumpet, vs the Bach 19037 from the Elhart's "50th anniversary" production? Which one would you buy first? Thanks!
I’ve played a lot of Bach’s tbh. I don’t remember a lot of the details truth be told. I’m the sort of person who picks up a horn and if it feels good play it if it doesn’t keep looking.
You seem to like vintage Bach’s. Do you have a big collection?
No Phill, I am just a music lover, and I play a bit of trumpet. I only have a Yamaha (basic) trumpet, and a Bach Strad C trumpet, from the 90s when I had more time to study. So, among these two trumpets a previously mentioned, if you ever had a chance to play one, which one would it be? based on product description and other demo videos? Please pick one ;)
I would never buy a horn without playing it. I made that mistake once and i suffered the consequences!!! :)
It pains me greatly to say this more than you know. I think I like the Bach better. That was hard to get out. That said it was just for the selections you played. Not only am I not a huge fan of Bach trumpets but I tend to like a warmer sound over all but not in this case. The Stomvi has a warmer sound maybe a tad darker but not enough to matter really. It just seems like in this case with your playing style and sound like the Stomvi was a bit flat and missing a bit of the full harmonic spectrum. It is strange I like the Stomvi V-Raptor and V-Raptor II but not the Stomvi Master model. It is not just you either I find that I seldom run into anyone playing the Stomvi Master that I actually like the sound. Same thing applies to the Jupiter Roger Ingram(sp) model I can count on 1 hand how many people sound good on it. That said when you do run across one it sounds incredible. Sam thing goes for the Martin Committee maybe 1 out of 10 I hear playing one sounds good but wow when you do get that 1 out of 10 it is incredible! The only thing that counts though is what you think! Thanks for sharing I enjoyed it! Oh and they both sound great I just like you and the Bach as a combo better! Obviously it is never just the artist or the gear it is always the two together and the musical selection matters too!
This is all positive feedback!
With soo many different makes of trumpet and each having slight differences.
My main point that seems to come across in this video is that when a player plays different horns they will ultimately create the sound in their head.
In this video most ppl seem to be saying the 2 instruments stack up closely to each other. Mind you Bach has been commented as a fan favourite so far.
It’s hard to say weather it’s been the favourite because of the reputation of the mt. Vernon or if that is what is being heard. Maybe I’ll do a blind test and see what the results are then.
Here’s another view that more closely matches my perception. I admire your ability to describe what differences you hear personally. Most people are saying the Stomvi sounds brighter to them, but I think it sounds a tad warmer/darker. I loved what I perceived as a brighter sound from the Bach, and I happen to own several Stomvis but no Bachs. I loved the sound of both horns, really, but this is mostly because of the ability of the player. I am amused, but certainly not surprised, by the reviews that say the Bach is “definitely better” without articulating any differences they hear.
Very close but the Bach was way smoother... like butter...
What Trumpet do you play?
The instruments are good because the player is good. That's why companies ask good players to highlight their instruments. Close your eyes and the difference is not meaningful because it's the same musician.
That's very kind you you to say Luis.
I agree that the sound in a players head is the sound that comes out the bell. Playing an instrument that feels good is what I place in the highest importance.
That's EXACTLY right. Yes. I wonder if how one feels on a particular day changes how the instrument feels that for the day.
Bach-the best!
What kind of Trumpet do you play?
The Bach Strad had more depth of sound. The Stomvi sounded tight and more difficult to play.
Welcome Stanton,
Do you play? What’s your favourite horn?
@@PhillONeillTrumpet My favorite horn? At this moment (of those I own) I'd have to say my 1980 Bach 37, followed closely by a Schilke B1 and 1973 Bach 37. Around these parts we don't see much in play beyond Bach, Schilke and Yamaha (which has come on strong in recent years). BTW... I really like your videos. However us Yanks don't know from crotches (?) quavers and semi-quavers. Gotta speak Yankee English mate :).
When I played in the Army band I went through the store room and found a beautiful 1980’s Bach. I didn’t want to give that back when I left.
In Australia most ppl play Bach or Yamaha too. It takes something special to get ppl to change gear.
@@PhillONeillTrumpet I think the biggest factor in most peoples' choices is availability. The second is the sheeple factor. Back in the day if you didn't play Bach you were odd. My first pro horn was a 69 Getzen Eterna (pre-Amado key). I still have it, but it plays a little small. Yamaha is a marketing juggernaut and goes after the big name pros. I think the Chicago Symphony trumpets now play Yamahas when a few years ago it was Bach. Schilke is another brand you see in Chicago due to them being a local company. Yamaha has based some of their designs off of Schilke.
Totally agree. Availability is such a huge factor that and a lot of students will tend to play what their teacher recommends them to play.
And so they should. No one will know a students playing better than their teacher.
And then there is the other side where some ppl have played the same brand of horn for decades and enjoy it so don’t want to change.
Bach sounds a bit fuller and richer in the lower register. Stomvi sounds better all round.
Thanks Terence. What horn do you play?
Fides Vivace
Sounds fast :)
Mt Vernon richer overall sound
Stomvi to bright
Both sound beautiful
The Strad hands down.
Thanks Bruce.
For me the Bach.
Thanks for joining in Ronisarin.
Stomvi has my vote
Thanks Willie,
What do you play?
Phil, I play on a Zeno and on a Raw Brass trumpet made by Ben Zagrean from Oregon. I play all types of music. Always dig listening to a good horn player play. And you my friend, are a very good horn player!
Thanks Willie.
Very kind of u to say.
Bach 💪🔥