When You Don't WANT a Better-Paying Position
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- Опубліковано 27 кві 2024
- What advice does Adam Savage have for someone who has been offered a better paying job but doesn't want it? Has Adam been presented with a career step that have closed the door to another path forever? In this live stream excerpt Adam answers these questions from @robnol84I and @MikeMakesMA, whom we thank for their support! Join this channel to support Tested and get access to perks, like asking Adam a question:
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Great advice
I hate it when managers can't comprehend that not everyone wants to be a manager.
Yup... Had an incident at work years ago. Worked for an absolute A-hole of a manager, but I liked the work I was doing it. One day he calls me into his office and offers me the "lead man" job. I turn him down flat. Two weeks later, same deal, but this time around, he tells me, "... what do you want? I can't figure you out...". A month later. I'm out of the department, being told by the company president that if I don't accept the new position (in a different department), I'm gone, like out the door gone.
Don't want to be a "chief"... Never did. 27yrs at the same company, going to "retire" July 1st and I was always an "Indian" and perfectly happy with it. Not exactly a follower, but I certainly never wanted to be a leader.
@@WHJeffB I can't understand that mentality from your managers. If i have a worker who is doing good work, and is content, what's not to like? They are unlikely to leave, making me have to hire a new person to do that job. And they are happy doing their job, meaning that they are probably DOING a good job. And happy employees is good for morale.
Some people do better at working with their hands (or minds), and some people are better dealing with people. These two things are not necessarily mutually exclusive, but they are a lot of the time. For example, pretty much every good programmer i have ever personally known had terrible people skills. Not management material, but they could code like nobody's business.
I have declined management twice in the last 3 years, and they keep wondering why. I am good at and like doing the work, I don't want to manage people doing the work.
Yep just went through this 2 weeks ago. The General Director where I work is retiring. The Production manager has been working his ass doing everything to make us grow so he could get that position. He got it. But now he asked me and another guy in production if we wanted to become Assistant Production Manager. We both turned it down and he is shocked and pissed that no one wants his job. First of all it's not the whole job. He wants to keep both titles but have everything he doesn't like be done by the assistant and second of all he realized that the new contract he got with new machines need to run 14 hours a day to be on time... he wants his assistant to lead a new night shift. Me and the other guy didn't even talk to each other about the offer and we both turned it down because we saw right through it.
This is my store right now at wal-mart. Yes, being a TL does pay a little more than a base associate. However, the responsibilities are tremendously challenging. It's like you're a store manager, but not having a few things that they have. Let's just say they're in-store managers without BEING the manager, we'll say. And the pay grade doesn't stretch across that level of responsibility.
It's not worth it. Especially if you're in a store where it's one of those run down stores that people take a dump all over at a given time and the workers don't necessarily improve it as much.
My wife and I just went through this. We decided mental health and that “home life balance” was more important than a higher paying job. Money isn’t everything.
Is that an E tank mug?
💯. Some jobs don't care or even recognize the "home, life " aspect.
It's a hard medium to find with thoes who care about there staffs overall well being....and let's there people....just be people
Home life doesn’t seem to be the issue in the question askers situation though, since they said the hours at the new position would be even better for their home life. From what it sounds like it’s more that the type of work is different enough from what they are currently enjoying that they don’t want to change
Sounds like the better money comes with the better hours.
What good is having all that money if the methods of earning it makes you and your family miserable?
One lesson I've learned in life, is that companies don't care about you, so you owe absolutely no loyalty to them whatsoever. So never feel bad if you have to make the decision to leave.
or even if you want to make the decision to leave.
Not always true.
You should treat your bosses with the same loyalty that they would show you. Sometimes that's a lot. Oftentimes it's none.
not true that they dont care. if you would really be in risk of ending up on the street after being fired, they would for sure try to help you out. but its not the companies goal to make you life in luxury (=give you a high salary).
Key to happiness is a good money to bullshit ratio.
Best comment maybe ever
That’s a great Quote, I’m writing this down so I don’t forget it
Definitely the best comment!
True 🎉
What does this look like though? $100k salary in a MCOL area with 40 hour work weeks and no stress? Or maybe $70k with 30 hour work weeks and no stress?
As a former classical musician, I can't help but think about how some orchestra musicians become conductors, but not everyone because who would be left to play the music? Not everyone wants to be a conductor.
That's why I study semiconductors.
As a former classical musician. Thats it just wanted to say I was a classical musician
@@majdo007 *ba dum tsch*
Yes. I've done some directing but now I want to teach kids and play whatever I want, and not worry about money being tied to it. I am interviewing for teaching jobs now! Great time to see this video, thanks everyone
And some can't play but they have the ear and can do good music.
I worked for a fortune 5 company, which at one time in history was the largest company in the world. In the IT department, we recognized that not everyone wanted to be promoted to management, but we couldn’t let people go to competitors so we had to do pay increases. With my director and a few others, we developed a position known as “individual contributor” which allowed people to continue to go up pay grades to Senior and Lead and above - even Director - with no direct reports, not having to manage. They still had to do leadership roles, such as advising, mentoring, etc. but they had no direct reports and about 80% of their work was just coding. It was an excellent way to keep people from job hopping and the ICs I worked with and managed were extremely happy.
The only way this creative story could be any better is if it was written in crayon.
Thanks for the giggle Pinocchio, try SME (subject matter expert) next time and "the director" not "my" 😂
@@sirtra? Dude has a real name screen name, and the linkedin profile to back up his statements. What do you have besides a cringeworthy desire to dunk on people and an anime avatar?
@@sirtra You don't have much time in the saddle, do you kiddo?
Lots of companies do exactly what OP has described.
@@AlexanderNecheff 15+ years buddy. The OP speaks like someone who is very green in the corporate world.
Why don't you go ahead and name just one company that does EXACTLY as the OP describes?
Should be easy, i hear there is lots of them.
There is only 4 companies in the past 2-3 decades that have had the top spot in the fortune 500. Wal-mart and General Motors are two of them to put things into perspective. Neither have a director, they have a board of directors and a CEO.
@@itmeurdad experience, i already provided 2 red flags.. i could dunk harder as there is other inconsistencies but I genuinely found it amusing.
It's how a gen-z would speak pretending to be their dad or something, they know some lingo but not using it appropriately. Saying "my boss" is proper, saying "my director" is not, it's "the" or "our" and publicly listed companies have a board of directors and a CEO or Managing Director. Corporate governance blah blah as the kids say if you know you know...
Best advice I ever got was to ALWAYS calculate your pay HOURLY even when on salarry. I figured out long ago, a non-management position doing the job you are paid to do and working a standard 40 hours a week actually pays MORE than the management position that gets just a little more pay, but involves tons more stress and 60hours a week expectations. Sometimes those promotions actually mean less per hour.
The free time is invaluable.
Unrelenting 60 hour weeks are miserable
My partner is a retail manager on salary. By the time you calculate the amount of unpaid overtime she does and the fact that she works a full weekend every 3 weeks, she's making substantially less
Exactly, I did some calculations and came to a conclusion that students have about 20% more per hour than me. Studens, not new employees, mind you. And I am second in command position. My boss said, mmm yes, true, but at the end of the month you get more since you have a regular work schedule.
He is not wrong, but students get to enjoy more free time and earn more for less work. :D
Also also, I'm never doing an office job again (as cozy and well paid it might be), people just have too much free time to plot against you and backstab you for no reason. :D
When I was in HR I would always pull the good employees to the side that were about to accept an internal position and indirectly tell them not to take the position. Most employees would eventually thank me later. Imagine going from making $85k a year working 40 hours a week to making $105k but working minimum 55 hours a week with no overtime. Thats a hard pass for me.
I remember hearing a story about the BYU Management School -- after a few years of having graduates, they discovered that their graduates were "getting stuck" in middle management. They were worried that BYU alumni were being passed over for promotions because of their religion, but before reaching that conclusion, they surveyed their alumni. It turned out that they would get to a certain level in their company, look at the family lives of upper management (in particular, the long hours and the high divorce rates), and take a pass on those potential promotions.
Now that I'm thinking about this, though, I can't help but wonder: what tasks in a company are so important that it's necessary to work yourself to death, breaking up your family along the way, that can only be done by upper management?
I spent 18 years trying to stay doing the same thing, the thing I joined the company to do. From year 5 onward I had to fend off being forced into managing people rather than doing what I was good at.
I had an amazing "Office Space" inspired epiphany on this topic.
I was working as a department manager in a grocery store and I was unhappy with the side of the job that entailed me being responsible for other workers being as good a worker as I am...Being a good worker was never hard for me, but getting others to be a good worker was like pulling teeth.
So when it came time for a promotion, I took a weekend vacation, ate some Molly, stared at the ocean, and came to a sudden and strong realization that what I should DO is instead of taking the offer for a promotion, I instead, offered to quit my job because I decided I HATED being a MANAGER...
Instead, my boss offered to let me keep my position as a worker, relinquish my "manager" title, and simply DO THE WORK as a simple WORKER BEE.
The lesson learned:
You're either a worker bee or a Queen.
Choose correctly and you'll be happy.
PS- I also got to keep my managerial pay rate!
@@Bino43 reminds me of someone i worked with at a target, gave up their manager spot but still kept the pay. They were more competent than the managers we did have xD
I did that too, and kept the manager rate. Named my own hours too! There's lots of room to negotiate if you're in a decent company and offer value.
I'm afraid you got the essence of the story entirely wrong. Your job isn't to make everyone in your team as good as yourself. You are supposed to structure your part of the organization so that it works with and for the gang that you have. They are slower than you are? Don't try to make them faster, plan for the time they need! They tend to be sloppy? Give them checklists, and review workflows to make them foolproof! Don't know why some of the team occasionally fail at stuff? Keep doing half-shifts alongside them, so you pick up their work style, and they can take pointers from yours.
Companies often do this sort of thing wrong, especially in low-skill areas like logistics or retail. They take the best of the bunch and magically expect them to know how to lead. But managing people is an entirely different kind of job.
@@Bino43 And most likely you're leading by example while never actually having to take on the responsibility of herding cats; bravo!
A number of years ago my boss hinted that if I wanted to buy out the company, I could. I turned him down flat. I'm far happier being a Riker than a Picard - a very competent second in command who can step in to lead when needed, but isn't constantly in charge.
This is totally me as well.
This is the ideal honestly - who wants to be herding cats *all* the time? Lol
I’m perfectly happy to be responsible for my own mistakes. I never want to be responsible for someone else’s
Thanks for the validation, Adam. I turned down a promotion last week. I would have gone from the lively warehouse to the quiet office up front. I had just gotten to a point where I finally felt I understood my work. I no longer questioned what I was doing and wounding if I was making mistakes. Not only would I be getting a new position but someone would need to replace me. I would need to train them while learning my new position. I know myself. I would end up doing both jobs in an attempt to be helpful to my replacement. I would burn out and then I would need to get a new job.
I could be making 10K more a year if I move up but I won't be home for dinner or be there to see my kids off to school. They are worth more than that money.
That's a simple decision and glad you made the right one. What's hard is if the double your pay... what will you do then?
I was a computer programmer for decades. I liked writing and debugging code. The company I worked at seemed to believe everyone wanted a career path that always led to being "promoted" into management positions. After a few years threatening to quit if they tried to make me a manager, they eventually stopped trying.
HP (the old HP, not the current rubbish HP) solved this. Rather than "promote" workers to managers, they set up a second org line where you were promoted to senior, chief etc engineers where you were given the status & pay of the equivalent management role, but essentially kept your old job.
Certainly beats the Peter Principle.
@@j.f.christ8421 Luckily the parallel IC track is alive and well in good paying pure software companies
Long story short. Been working with CAD for the last 10 years. My destiny, my passion, my obsession. Not always the steadiest work though and after that long, sometimes you want a little break/change. Got offered a permanent government job, basic admin stuff but permanent federal jobs in Canada is what everyone wants.. "cash for life", "you've won the lotto" etc. You take it and don't ask questions. I lasted 4 months. Complete $hit show on every level (will spare the details). You couldn't pay enough to stay, that alone should speak volumes. The experience just confirmed to me that I need to stay in my lane and continue doing what I was meant to do... Moral: don't do something for the money or the benefits or the safety net. Live to strive, live your purpose.
I was promoted from tech to training supervisor. It was great, because I was still basically a technician, but making 50% more money for less work. 8-5, Monday to Friday, no direct reports. After 2 years, the department was outsourced. I then took a job supervising 15 technicians, minimum 10 hour days, and on call 24/7 one week a month. Plus, I also ended up doing the writing for both my manager and director as well as my own. I had to manage 5 or ten projects as well. Money was the same.
Called into my managers office one day. I was offered promotion to manager, leading 10 supervisors and 150 employees. I said, "You're going the wrong direction!" And as we said,"took my tools back, " went back to being a technician. I lost money and bonuses, but I was happy actually doing something productive that I loved rather than papershuffling and kissing ass.
" Although I appreciate your assessment of my talent and skills, however I love my work and doing my leaders job is not what I enjoy doing. If you feel that I am allowed a pay increase, I will continue to excel in my work and strive to fully support the new leader. '
Luckily in software engineering a while back some companies realized there was a common problem where people who were good at their job eventually got promoted so that instead of doing what they were good at they were managing people doing it, which is a completely different skill set, so now many of them have separate "manager" and "individual contributor" tracks so that people can continue to get promoted and accept greater responsibility without having to transition to people management.
I really like this. I haven’t heard of it before, but that exactly describes me. The companies I’ve worked for really only have Junior and Senior, not much more complicated than that, so I’ve never been offered a promotion, just higher pay when I switch jobs. So whenever I’m ready for more pay I have to switch companies.
@@NoonianSoong403 Yeah when I was a Senior Engineer I didn't even know it was an option and I ended up getting promoted to a Manager position and hated it. I switched over to the IC track and my titles have been Staff/Principal Engineer or Software Architect and the job has been much more in line with what I am good at and enjoy doing.
I accepted management positions primarily for the money. While it was good money and enabled me to be able to purchase a home and other goodies…I hated it. The stress was horrible. I’m happy to be retired and will never have to manage anything other than myself and our dogs again.
There's this weird, pervasive idea that the "hierarchy" in a company determines everything. Compensation, status, career path.
The reality is that managing, communicating, creating vision & alignment are just jobs: It requires a separate set of skills and talents, and it's not "the next step up", it's just a different role, a separate track. To me, that also means that good companies need to have compensation tiers for specialists and managers which run parallel to each other.
And, maybe most importantly: Good managers don't act like "the layer above", but rather as "the glue in between".
"It was boring." That's such a good way to process that type of negative emotion. I hope I remember to use that technique more often.
Did that feel like a uniquely LA culture kind of idiom to you as well? I agree it's a pleasant way to say it.
Replacing "bullshit" with "boring", what a clever way to be tactful ...
@@chaoticlogic588 I don't know enough about LA culture to know if this is an aspect of it.
@@3nertia I'm hoping to make the change internally as well. I'm wondering if I can't train myself to be bored of things like that instead of evoking any negative emotion. I think we might do it as we age anyway. But I wonder if intentionally embracing that approach might not be useful.
After working for a company for 7 years was offered a management role. Did it for over a decade and while good at it, hated it Started to burn out. Luckily my boss finally saw that and when a different position came up for equal pay in the same company, I was able to transfer into it and took it on permanently. That was 4 years and it has been a game changer for my mental health and work life balance. I'm able to use the management skills I developed o er the years but don't have to deal with the people management hassles which were always difficult and draining
I have also experienced having to turn down a 'promotion' into management because it A)- wasn't what I wanted to do and B)- is not really what I am best at. When offered the position I sat down with the owner of the company and discussed why I was the wrong choice for the position. He fully understood and respected my opinion on it. I want to be where I am both most valuable to the company and happiest at my job. This promotion would not have achieved either of those things. Money is the ultimate motivator for all of us to go to our jobs but more money does not always mean things are better. And I am glad I work at a medium sized family run business where I can go sit down with the owner and talk any time I want. That helps a lot.
I recently left a higher paying job that had mandatory overtime. I went from 72 hours a week to 40 hours. Yes my paychecks are smaller but getting to spend time with my family and my mental health take priority over having some extra spending money.
I put my foot down on weekend overtimes a few years ago where I work. We don't have that many production workers and I was tired of working 6 days a week and being always tired. Recently I got offered assistant production manager because the production manager is taking over general director position. I turned it down and the production manager was confused and pissed that I was turning it down. The biggest problem is that he wanted me to run a new night shift. He's the one that pushed us to get new contracts that need the machines to run 14 hours per day to be on time. He pushed everything to the limit for the past couple years so he could impress the bosses and get the general director title when the old one retires. Now that he got it he push all the problems he caused on someone else? I don't want to be the victim of his ambitions. It's not my circus and it's not my monkeys.
So many companies pay the managers LESS than the workers, my boss took a pay cut to get out of the field. Then they gave him more techs than anyone else, asked to do project management and many other roles that no other supervisor is doing, and I think its because they found out they could take advantage of a nice guy.
Beware the "Peter Principle". For those who don't know - the Peter Principle is being promoted to a level above your competence and/or ability. If you know where you would hit the Peter Principle and AVOID it then you will be happier. Learn where your "Peter Principle" level is. BUT STRIVE TO LEARN TO RAISE YOUR PP level.
You just *had* to abbreviate it, at the end, hmm? 🙃
and often that level above your competence/ability is a job doing something entirely different to what you were doing. I was a baker for a year or two and in the last 3-4 months we did not have a manager above the actual bakers, and they tried to get the best bakers promoted desperately, thinking that being good at the job would make them a good manager. When someone took the job, they did a frankly awful job because they're a baker, not a manager, and suddenly they and the higher ups are stressed because of a sudden drop in performance, but like... Of course, you just made a baker your manager. The longer I work, the more I keep seeing it happen.
@@ItsLeah43 The sad part about this is that managerial tasks are not that hard to learn. I'm a fairly good lab-tech, so at some point I got to lead a team. Fortunately, my company pays for small leadership courses for people they expect to manage. It was just two days of not very tough training, but that was enough to redirect my thinking into understanding the expectations. After that, it still took a while to quench the wrong reflexes, especially in stressful situations, but that is doable as long as you have an idea of where you want to get.
I agree with the PP. I think it's worded "High performing people are often promoted to the point of incompetence"
@@Volkbrecht imagine thinking that a short course would teach you how to be a manager
Thanks for your story.
Five years ago I left my dream job as a researcher with tons of grief and worries and now looking back it was a very good choice.
I love this advice of visualize how you want to feel and aim yourself towards that. Sometimes you get in a situation where it's best to focus on where you are headed next, rather than trying to make your current job better.
The worst thing I ever experienced in my career was a manager that was NOT good as an individual contributor OR a manager, but talked his way into managing our team after I had already worked there 15 years. He was EXTREMELY controlling and without insight, hindsight, or foresight. I felt suddenly trapped, and I wrestled with trying to maintain or reclaim the good parts, while he relentlessly tore down everything in his quest to make everything about himself. It never got better. Only worse. Turns out he had a personality disorder called OCPD, and perhaps some NPD in there.
LOVE these Savage Counseling Sessions!! Will share many times over.
I was asked for years to become a manager. As a computer programmer, now retired, I was good at what I did and enjoyed it. But, my strengths were in the work, not in the management of the people doing it. I could manage a project as a team lead, but to go full management and not code anymore would have been just so boring. Not to mention that every person I saw move into management was gone within only a few years. Maybe I could have been a good manager and made more money throughout my career, but I doubt it. Looking back I really have no regrets.
I have been working at my current employer for over 30 years. I have moved up the hierarchy over time. At each step, I waited until the time was right, even when people were encouraging me to take the steps. All things considered, I could have achieved my current position 10 years earlier if I had been ready at first opportunity.
I wasn't ready. I got better at what I did until I nearly topped out and then applied for the promotions. I feel that I am better at my job for it and have the respect of those I am now supervising because I understand their jobs. I have about 10 years before retirement and currently have no ambitions to be promoted, that can change. My duties would change dramatically if it were to happen.
Adam, you are such an amazing person. Incredible that I can write a comment to you here, after watching Mythbusters for years in the childhood. You seem so energetic, optimistic, happy and wise. Thank you for your story, such choices are truly something that you encounter often in your 20s, so it was nice to hear your perspective
You gotta decide what you wanna do and nobody can decide for you.
Nobody but you can tell you what your career should look like.
My rule is I take stuff I know I'm gonna have fun doing first, that have good pay second
I spent a career in video games and college teaching, NOT going into management. I enjoyed my work, missed out on big money, but had a happy life.
"You give me this possible outcome, I'm gonna pick this one every single time."
What a line.
As someone who's been a HUGE fan of yours since MB started, I can't tell you how much I appreciate how happy you are, and seem to be, with life.
I absolutely adore these videos of yours. Thank you for everything
I repair medical equipment. It’s the only job I’ve ever had. I did it in the army and I do it on the civilian side now. When I was in the army, I never went to a promotion board till right before I got out. My credentials were off the charts, the CSM was shocked I never went to the board, I didn’t want to become a sergeant because then I become a manager and stop turning wrenches.
The best advice I ever heard on making difficult decisions was to picture yourself having made the decision one way. Take notice of how you feel about that. The next day repeat the process for the alternative.
The reason it works is that the part of your brain that processes emotions cannot differentiate between imagination and reality, so your feelings on those decisions are genuine.
I taught high school chemistry for 33 years. As a teacher, the only way to advance in the system is to go into administration. I would have been a terrible administrator, my place was in the classroom. I was a very good teacher and it's what I loved doing. I was not going to sacrifice that for more money. Something happens in the brains of people who become administrators and I didn't want that to happen to me. In my district, teachers were paid lower than just about any other district in the surrounding counties but the administrators were very highly compensated in relation to surrounding districts. They justified this by saying that there weren't very many of them and they had to attract the best and brightest. I guess that didn't apply to teachers, though we had a very dedicated and talented faculty. The job became increasingly toxic, exponentially so during Covid. I retired three years ago and never want anything to do with the system ever again.
I know nothing about the field in which Mr Savage works, but I could listen to him talking about the intricacies of California's local unions shenanigans for 10 hours - especially when it's the wrong story. Adam Savage is a national treasure - and I'm from Canada.
International :) I'm in Sweden, I bet there are plent of viewers from all over the planet.
On the eve of starting the training for my new position I’ve come to have a bit of peace with this change. I will be making as part of my job as well as some IT. I honestly feel like watching you over the years has kind of prepared me for this job. Still not sure how I feel about the new job but I find it serendipitous that this clip was posted today.
Your final comments are somewhat aligned with the way I look at my life. (We're about the same age.) I've been asked if I regret any of the choices/decisions I've made. My answer is , only when they've hurt someone, BUT, I would make them all again! I like the man I have become over the years. I have , in that process, learned from my mistakes (most of the time,) helping to shape the man/husband/father/brother/nurse I am. If I had taken any other course through life, I would not be the same, the people in my life might not be the same, my career path would not have been the same.
Respect the choices you make in life. They make you who you are!
Just thank you Adam
Love you Adam all the way from Australia 🦘🌏
I was offered the director position of a IT department. I turned it down as I was the technical manager and enjoyed the IT project challenges rather than spending my days in meetings. 18 months later I was let go as the new director was building his empire and bringing in his friends. Looking back, it was the best thing that every happened to me. After a few interviews I realized I needed to find work as an IT contractor and stop being someone's employee. My career and mindset was much better. Also the former IT department imploded within a couple of years due to the new director.
I recently had a job which robbed me from my personal life. It was nearly 2x the income I was used to because the hours were crazy and I hated each one. It stripped me from my art routine, personal goals, fueled my depression, and took away the time I used to use to invest into my passion. Not even close to worth it. I was losing my sanity. I did what I had to do until I found a better job. Now I’m taking my life back and I’m more grateful than ever for my free time.
I learned many valuable lessons working a job I really hated. Fat paychecks alone don’t make me feel any better. Most of all, I promised myself I’d never get stuck being miserable if I had a way out.
The freeze frame at 10:58 is exactly how I will remember Adam Savage for the rest of my life, because I paused the video and did the exact same thing. What a classic Adam moment 😂
I had a sign in the shop I worked in for 35 years that said,
I started at the bottom...
...and liked it here!
Thanks for sharing your insight. I was also just offered big job from top name music label and been trying to weigh more money vs less family time. I ultimately turned it down due to time schedules and lost time in traffic (here in LA btw). No regrets as I’ve been in this field over 25 years and wouldn’t give up my family time over the money. Really enjoyed this video 👍🏼
You make a compelling point about the significance of balancing work with personal happiness and family time. It’s essential to regularly assess our career choices against our life values to ensure they align - an exercise that can lead to greater fulfillment both professionally and personally. 👍
awesome Adam! i highly respect your opinion and my son is blessed to be in this position to reject a promotion and my advice was very similar to yours.... giving me great confidence that my guidance for my son was good!
I was asked two different times (different companies) to become the CIO (Chief Information Officer) and politely declined and told them that if I were to take the position, no one, including myself, would be happy - I didn't have the interest, personality, or patience to deal with the foolishness that swirls around that position (a lot of elephants swinging their trunks and endless, pointless meetings...) - I was quite happy being the unofficial second in command and my teams were quite happy (overall) with that too. Retired now, and, as I tell everyone, I highly recommend it!
Can I just point out the maturity and tact of this man speaking of his ex wife so highly and still staying elegant in respect to his current marriage. What a brilliant human.
Fabulous vulnerable sharing.
3:45 "What I often counsel people when thinking about future work, is to think about what you want the job to feel like, not what you want to be doing. What do you want to feel while you're doing the job?"
Wow, this is an interesting angle I hadn't heard before actually. Very deep. Subconsciously this is something I've partially worked out over my career so far, but actually thinking about it and defining it seems extremely useful.
As a teacher, I never understood why someone who loved teaching would want to be a school administrator. The jobs couldn’t be more different. Who are the teachers who immediately became administrators as soon as their five year teaching requirement was up? You guessed it. The worst teachers, who just wanted to tell the other teachers what to do, when they knew nothing and really just wanted a job where they could sit on their butts all day. Yeah, I’m still annoyed about it.
Fellow teacher here. I've heard people refer to admin jobs / headmaster jobs as "the only career move available for teachers". And to me it's just baffling to consider that a career move. It's not "Moving up", in my mind, it's changing jobs and careers entirely. For all the reasons you state. It's a completely different job.
Luckily, I'm not someone who's very interested in "having a career". I just want to have a job, I can do this until I retire, because I love it.
My father use to say those jobs were for teachers that don´t know how to deal with the students.
@krank23 What I think of as school admin is a completely different branch of employment to teaching in UK schools. Before retirement, I worked as data manager and exams officer for 6 years. We also had a dedicated back office team who worked on all the paper pushing and front desk jobs. But teachers who want to take on additional work such as responsibility for attendance, behaviour, and teaching & learning improvements are all still teachers. Vice Principals still teach about 75% of teaching periods (it can vary by school).
I grew up watching Mr Wizard on Nickelodeon... Adam is Mr Wizard with all the bells and whistles and fun that comes along with being involved in looking into how things work.. how they tick... how can I break it down and make it work again... ADAM thank you.
Great work sir
Great video and lovely and honest too. I’d be interesting hearing about a cross road he took that was less successful and how he dealt with that. I think that’s what is really being asked as that’s what we all fear when making big decisions
I've had this as well - I have done some subcontrating work and was offered to go full time, but when I was doing the sub-work (I'm a self employed contractor) I also saw the usual top down management bullshit and occasional interpersonal politics. They offered almost twice what I currently earn solo, but it also meant more hours, weekends and not being able to say "no" when I felt I needed to, plus all the usual problems being "on the hook" for other peoples shoddy or slow work. I turned it down and they even went as far as to say they wouldn't offer me any more sub work - which proved I had made the right decision. I make less money but I am significantly happier living life on MY terms, my work and MY standards, after having been a both a corporate rat when I was younger, and an employed contractor when I was starting out in my chosen career change. At 54 now I can honestly say I'm the happiest in my work / life balance I've ever been and should have done it 20 years earlier.
I could spend a day on my experiences but just wanted to say to always remember, IT’S YOUR LIFE. Do what is best for you. To many people get wrapped up in the what society says you should do, stigmas, or just worry to much about what others will think. You know yourself the best and what you are suited to do. Follow your instincts and damn everyone else.
I took less money for a physically more difficult job but the hours are better and I get more time off. The relief I feel is incalculable. And although I’m more tired at the end of the day, I feel better than I ever have.
How fitting lol. I’m also at a crossroads at the moment. Trying to choose between a new job with a significant raise doing similar technician work and my current job which I love quite a bit. Right now leaning towards the new one, fingers crossed I enjoy it.
Thanks again
I'm an independent photographer. Almost every day, someone tells me how I can work harder for less money.
If photographers made good money no one would do it. They wouldnt have anything to complain about.
@@jerbear7952 I make $260 an hour, barefoot on a Caribbean beach. You?
2020 covid made me realize this. I like doing the work I currently do, and would rather stick to that, than get a giant pay increase to become manager and ultimately partner at my job. The amount of time they have to spend dealing with work isn't what I want.
Some advice that strongly resonated with me, from D. Brent Chapman of Great Circle Associates at a LISA conference sometime around the late 1990's:
"Never try to price yourself out of a job you don't want to do." [Possibly paraphrased; I'm quoting from memory.]
Because they'll pay that price that you thought was ludicrous, and then you'll have to do that job. (Or something like that, was the argument.)
I used to manage a small independent video store (one of the cool ones with a great back catalogue). One of my roles was to determine how many copies of each new release we would buy. The first time I saw Bicentennial Man was the VHS screener. In order to make them less copy-able they would convert some scenes to black and white. One of the scenes they converted was the ballroom stair case scene (or at least that's as much as I can recall about it off the top of my head). I still prefer that scene in B&W. It was beautiful in a way that the color version I saw later wasn't.
I think some of us like designing and/or building so much more than managing people, that a notable pay difference still isn't worth it. Though, I have heard of some management positions that are customized specifically for the introverts performing them. So, I guess to some degree it depends on how much you can customize each role. Fun thought experiment. Thanks for that Adam and team.
"mo' money mo' problems" truer words were never spoken
I have spent the last 3.5 years at a very laid back plant in maintenance for 29/hr which is quite good for my town. I landed a job starting the end of May starting at 49/hr but it will be a much more strict, stress, and proper employer. I'm nervous about the change because it is so easy and I'm comfortable where I'm at, but growth never comes from a place stagnation.
My old supervisor was going to retire and they asked me if I wanted to learn his job and do it. NOPE! I knew enough about the bull$hit he had to deal with on a daily basis and wanted no part of it. I liked doing what I was doing and was good at it and wanted to keep on with it.
I'm in the iatse local 30 and it's crazy that Adam was in the same industry and made it so big. Unfortunately I'm in Indiana so my job is not so exciting. It's weird to hear him talking about my job though as I always saw him as an actor engineering scientist type from the show. He definitely was very lucky. We are under paid and under appreciated despite being in a union. Ironically many of my hobbies are similar too. I saw him at his booth when I was working comic con and wondered if he knew I was a stage hand.
Here is an exercise I’ve found useful for many major decisions: Take a piece of paper and divide it down the middle. Write your first option (e.g. Job at ABC company) at the top of the first column, and your second option (e.g. job at XYZ company) at the top of the second column. In each column, write down all factors for that choice that you can think of, both positive and negative, no factor is too small to add (e.g. higher pay, shorter commute, carpool available, corner office, friend works there, upward mobility, better cafeteria food, shorter walk from the parking lot, etc.)
Compare the factors in both columns and cross out the ones that are equal in your mind. As an example, if ABC company offers better pay but XYZ company offers a shorter commute and these factors are equal in your mind, cross out both because these factors effectively cancel each other out and shouldn’t influence your decision. When you are done, there will likely be only one or two factors left. Choose the option that contains those factors.
I was working a job that I really liked, paid terribly, but it was pretty much my dream job. Got made redundant after 5 years, so I got a job in the same field at another company and worked my way up, then got an offer from another competitor for some really high pay... THE NEXT DAY after saying yes to this job, my original job of 5 years asked me to come back, but the pay was like 70% less than what I JUST got offered... I still went back, been a couple years since, pays terrible still, but it's an amazing place to work and has a good balance of work life. So worth it overall.
When I worked fast food food, i really enjoyed making the food and just being a crew member. After some time they asked me to be a manager, I said no as I do not like to be in charge of people, especially back then as a very young adult. Said no like 5 times in 2 years, until they eventually made a new position for me to be able to open the store as a manager for like 3 hours until an actual manager showed up. Wasn't my favorite change but I still liked it more than I wouldve enjoyed a full manager position
I work for a security company. When the site supervisor left, I was promoted to the job. I thought, and my bosses thought, I would be great at it. Small site, so all the officers were on board with me being the Lt.
And turns out the bulk of the job is being an office manager, not a leader. After 3 months of fixing the previous Lt's negligence (long story, he wasn't entirely to blame), I was tired, stressed out, and out of my skillset area. I could do the job, but i wasn't happy. So i stepped down and the officer who filled my slot very conviently came from the district office as a field supervisor who enjoyed wrangling schedules.
So I got my old slot, she got the work load she wanted, and I train all the officers, since I wrote our site specific training documents.
Im much happier as an unofficial Sgt than I was as the Lt.
The advice here is timely for me! This is something that's been weighing heavily on my mind these last few months. I am a mathematician "pretending" to be a software engineer, who's been mostly unemployed for almost two years now, in no small part because the software industry collapsed ... but also, in no small part, because these past few months I've come to realize I'm autistic, and I have ADHD to boot. Thus, I have been asking myself "what can I do to fit my work into the issues I now understand I have, so I can avoid burnout in the future?"
I'm fairly certain I can't work 9-to-5 with limited time off, so contract work is likely in my future. And I'm fairly certain, as much as I like to say I "pretend" to be a software engineer (if I could figure out how to be a mathematician, I'd like to do that!) I also realize that I'm nonetheless drawn to do computer-ish things, and if I could figure out how to make allowances for my mental state (and learn to take advantage of them, too! Because both ADHD and autism are weird disabilities, in that they are disabilities that come with *benefits* !), I have a funny feeling I wouldn't have any problem with working as a software engineer ....
People are missing that this new job gives him a BETTER family time. Literally in this question the only problem this guy has with his job is that its new.
Dont ever overthink things, take the risk, because realistically its a small one. If you end REALLY disliking the job, then step down to the previous position. People do it all the time and it is very easy.
People going through the same thing, stop being afraid. Take the risk. People often regret not doing something, than doing something.
The CEO at a previous job I had pretty strong opinions about not making leadership or *boss* positions a goal. Kicking ass in your zone is the best for you and them. Failing forward towards incompetence is an issue at many places.
its hard to put in to words but I've had a few jobs over the years and one thing I have found is: its better to have a job you like than one you don't.
When I had jobs I liked I would actually look forward to going to work and wouldn't have things like that "I hate Mondays" attitude... the days would usually go by quickly and when I was done I'd often have a feeling of pride in my work and look forward to coming back the next day.
I’ve decided I never want to join management. I don’t want to manage people.
My dilemma is whether I want to stay near the shop floor which I enjoy or if I want to go further into engineering which I can do but not necessarily enjoy being at a desk and meetings all day.
I wish I could say the same about some of the decisions I’ve made in my life but then again, I also remember all the constraints and conditions I was dealing with and I end up always saying the same thing: “I did the best I could with was as available and I’m still doing my best!”
But things aren’t improving as much as they should tbh.
Management is an entirely different job than almost any position you would be promoted from. Management is usually so much more people oriented. I have been in software for 20+ years. I am good at writing code, finding bugs, figuring out solutions. Don't make me settle scheduling conflicts between people who need to pick up kids or want to go on vacation or aren't meeting deadlines. Those are entirely different skill sets.
While you might be happy in your current job and see no reason to change that doesn't mean that you will be able to continue doing your current job indefinitely. There are external pressures on any job, many which are completely beyond your personal control. So sometimes you may need to change jobs to avoid being out of a job.
My old man, single dude raising 2 boys, worked 70+ hours and i missed out on a lot of time with him. So when it comes to my kids i always pick what fits my time for them best. Im an automation electrician and have been offered controls engineer many of times. But between the schooling, crazy long hours and all that travel, the extra bump in money just doesnt cover all the loss i would then take on.
So many people keep thinking that they have to continually be switching jobs. They even say this in interviews - "where do you see yourself in five years?" Except often the interviewers are people that did want to move into management. I like digging deeper into my field and keeping up with the new products and applications. I'm happy here.
What's more, I don't have good skills for management. I'd have to learn a lot of new stuff that I don't like doing.
I've been offered promotions at my current job a few times, and I've turned it down each time. It's not even a matter of the work being done, but it would require me to come into the office more and cover overtime shifts, neither of which I want.
Robin Williams… he is….. he was. 😢 man that hit hard.
I have ever-increasing stress at work and the money has not remotely offset that increase. So unlike the person who asked the question in this video, I'm not even getting more money or a promotion. But I've had more and more stress/responsibilities added. And the continuous friction and refusal to add an experienced staff makes me think the office wants everyone to stay stressed and overworked.
There's a blurry line between Imposter Syndrome (where you believe you don't deserve or belong in your position) and Peter Principle (where you truly get promoted above your capacity to do the job well). If you're honest with yourself about what you're good at and what makes you happy, and what you're not good at and makes you miserable, you might just be able tell the difference.
That said, pandemic layoffs pushed me into a more managerial role I don't 100% love, but I'm trying to learn.
there is a book called "The Peter Principle" By Laurence J. Peter 1969, the gist of it is being promoted to ones level of incompetence which describes so many folks, I'm not saying this person is in this category, but too many times it occurs, just look at any government
Definitely this person was not that category; the person is actually now in a management position in a different company, and doing even better than the old company thought they would.
@@tested I am pleased to hear that. We need good people running companies and governments
What a beautiful and healthy way to talk about his ex-wife and mother of his kids.
I have done everything from being the boss to being grunt labor. I find I like being grunt labor more than management, and I told my work if they wanted to promote me be the boss I'd quit first.
Oh I had something like that a few years back where I work. There was an opening on our second shift for the supervisor position and they thought I was the right person for the job; I know the product, I've got an eye for detail, and I show up and do my work. I didn't want to change shifts, though, and I didn't want to be in charge of everybody; I prefer to be able to go to my station, put on my music, and be left the hell alone. One of the managers, the department head, and the VP at the time all asked me and I told them all no and why. I moved up to a machine operator position since then, but I've got zero interest in being supervisor.
Funny this came up in my feed, going through something similar now.
Oftentimes, the extra responsibility that comes with promotion is not worth the incremental increase in income. The one exception is if you can improve the conditions for your subordinates while continuing to do the same job you love.
Well, there is that.
I spent some time in middle-management which helped me see that I was happiest doing the grunt work. The problem solving of spreadsheets, rotas and quotas bored me to be honest and, although it was better pay, I missed the physical problem solving and being hands on with things. I've also been in places where the hierarchy seemed to be based on the inverse of their ability to do the job, people failed upwards, and I didn't want to become part of the headless bureaucracy distanced from the actual day to day work.
I'm stuck struggling with this sort of situation now myself. I've been in the automotive and fabrication fields for over 25 years, but my body just can't take it anymore. I tried to go back to school and get a mechanical engineering degree, but in the process of finding out I have some pretty severe ADHD, i crashed and burned and had to drop out. That's in the process of getting under control, I've finally started medication, so once that's normalized I may try again, but I need to stop bending and lifting pretty much now.
My ideal job would be to be a sort of working lead, where I can show people how to do the job, supervise, do on the floor design work, etc, but that's not exactly a job you can just step into.
I've always said, I'd rather be a worker, a good worker. I'd be a great great #2, I don't think I'd be a good manager