Thank you, Dr. Tanzi, for preferring "I don't know" over just making something up, which seems to be an outgrowth of our existentially driven need for answers, even if they're wrong.
@@ItsEverythingElse Are you sure Tanzi's idea is nonsense? If so, how are you sure? And if you were to assign Tanzi's "nonsense" idea a probability error, what criteria would you employ?
@@roccolobosco5499 We use established methods of deduction to arrive at that which is necessarily so.. Why is it that so few people bother to learn this, including most ‘scientists’? spaceandmotion
This is what I call a good scientist. To admit we don’t know and that the current model is not satisfying. We must explore the other possibility, which is may be harder to study and to understand but which can explain many experiences as NDEs, OBEs, past life memories, shamanic transe, premonitory dreams etc. This possibility is that our consciousness is out of the brain , out of the physical world. The brain is a tool to access the information, to recall memories, as a hard drive access information stored in a cloud drive for example. I like this approach
I hate that approach. The problem in science is they view the brain as a computer. This view runs into problems because unlike a computer the brain is not storing information and recalling it. The brain forms memories using neurons connected in a complex way. This is the reason we have trouble understanding the hard problem of the mind. The physical structure of neurons and interconnections between them are what gets interpreted as memories. NDE’s and OBE’s are not evidence of consciousness existing outside of the physical world. They require the brain and physical body to be active in order to experience them. We have to explore the brain in its totality and how everything is interconnected as well as the strength of those connections in order to solve the hard problems. The problem for science is it’s easier to describe the simplified model of the brain rather than a more complex model.
@@kos-mos1127 "The brain forms memories using neurons connected in a complex way" this is an assumption. And it's still to vague: how it works? what is a complex way? why a complex organisation creates and/or stores memory? It is the most intuitive answer, but may not the right one. Why a very complex computer or AI did not create consciousness and/or memory by its own? Why unconscious stuff can create conscious beings? And BTW most NDEs are experienced with a flat EEG... so the role of the brain is more than questionable here... Thousands or even million of people relate they were more conscious than ever, out of their body they felt everything as more real than the "incarnated" reality. As if a dead (or at least very diminished) brain gives you more conscious, more sensation, more feelings (and I don't speak about the other elements of NDEs as telepathy or life review and some vision of future or unknown information validated after the experience). We must consider these elements in science. They are not anecdotes, they are too frequent and similar. We are may be in front of a paradigm shift, that's why we tend to "hang" to the "old one". let's see what the future will tell us but I prefer the approach which explain the more things (and remain very interested by brain understanding, it's for sure an amazing bunch of meat 😝)
Your statement "out of the physical world" means nothing. Even if we don't understand how consciousness work it is still part of the physical world, in fact that is the only thing we know for sure.
@@javiej it’s not a statement but the other possibility which is very well documented today. So yes it’s out of the physical reality (not with particles of matter). But when you say « consciousness is still part of the physical work » THIS is a statement. And this is precisely the question here: may be it’s NOT. « All we know »: no it’s all you know. Or all mainstream science knows. Many scientists or researchers in « post materialism » have a wider approach and begin to « know » more. Also interesting to study what indigenous people « know », their knowledge has several thousand years (far more than occidental science!), and they all say the same thing, they know there are more realities and this one is more like a dream compared to others (like NDE testimonies). Anyway…
Finally someone with a solid head on his shoulders! I love how he bluntly stated that we just don’t know. Also his explanation of scientific models at the end there was priceless.
@@greveudspringsklub4488 ...then he would be correct in saying that he didn't know he was correct about knowing when he was saying thay he didn't know. Duh!
When a neurologist of Tanzi's stature and others admit that it is at least possible consciousness exists beyond the brain, I have to admire that honesty. Nothing irks me more than dogmatic scientists and philosophers that have the hubris to talk with "certainty" on issues featured in this fine program.
No. What irks you is they don't entertain that fantasy most of us humans have, which is to exist beyond our demise. Those scientists you mention have exactly the same fears you do, they just don't mix it up in their work. If there's a theory/model that is substantial enough, scientists will acknowledge it. If not, then it's pure speculation. You used the word 'admit' for Tanzi as if it's a truth people don't want to accept, categorically saying "we do not know" is NOT the same as this unsubstantiated theory is something I have to admit. Nonsense.
@@edit4310 You need to realize science is pseudoscience if you think it can say anything "objective" about reality. Since Kant, the Enlightenment hope of science revealing "truth" has been effectively dismantled. Science is good at organizing phenomena that homo sapiens have access to. Hence, it has great instrumental and pragmatic value to us but no ontological utility. There may be realms of knowledge and reality that we can never even in principal access. An earthworm has a primitive nervous system and interacts with it's environment like us; try teaching it calculus.
Consciousness is simply a state of awareness, perception, responsiveness & cognition ... of the environment ... by an ENTITY with a MIND. Animals & Man are physical entities with a physical mind ... and therefore a consciousness of the physical environment. So what is a consciousness outside of the brain of an animal or Man ... in the physical Universe? This doesn't make any sense. What makes sense is if there is a NON PHYSICAL existence and Man possesses a SOUL or spirit ... and the Mind of Man is both physical(brain) and non-physical(soul). The soul relies completely on the living & heathy body & brain ... to be conscious of the physical environment and thoughts & actions? When the body dies, the Soul then become conscious of the Non-physical environment, has the memories from the physical body ... but can no longer interact & do things with the physical world. Remember, that an entity with a MIND ... will have consciousness of the environment that the Mind is part of. Man is primarily a physical entity in a physical environment ... but he also has an eternal soul. It also doesn't make any sense that Man has an eternal soul but a mortal body. But it does make sense that Man originally had an immortal body & soul ... and discobey God's order not to eat from the tree of knowledge. Silly Adam & Eve.
@@abelincoln8885 You jump to the conclusion that "Animals & Man are physical entities with a physical mind" without any proof. It may be materialism is true and most neuroscientists are right when it comes to consciousness , i.e. it is simply a byproduct of the physical brain, but at this point we are far from certain. Idealism and pantheistic conceptions of reality can't be easily dismissed, nor can the simulation hypothesis of people like Nick Bostrom. As far as the dualism of people like Descartes, that door can't be shut yet either. I appreciate scientists and philosophers with an open mind.
Wow! So does this mean that memories are not stored in the brain but merely bookmarked by the brain for retrieval from the conscious cloud? Is that a possiblility? We do not create consciousness but rather access it with our brain? Must be watched multiple times to savor the back and forth between materialistic Kuhn and "we don't know" Tanzi. Kuhn does his usual excellent job of pushing the argument so to speak, of creating a back and forth that propels the discussion. Another excellent, thought provoking episode. I love the triumphant smirk on Tanzi's face at the very end! Outstanding!!
See the answer "I don't know" is what most scientists don't know how to say because they feel they HAVE to give an answer and then that's where society gets mislead because they just make up anything that sounds fitting. Bravo to your courage and your honesty.
You forgot to include the subjective and varied memories of NDEs. Those memories in the NDE can be very complex, and different between persons. How are those created by a brain starving of oxygen, and where could they be stored for recall upon resuscitation? And what about those individuals who NDE, go OBE, even while the brain is under anesthesia? Happens! So, the complex experience of subjective memories are stored in the “spirit body” of a person. It is an energetic aggregate or node within the quantum field of consciousness in this multiverse. There are some “memories” related to somatic experience which are stored in the brain, such as motor “macros”, like how to walk, grasp an object with the hand, swallowing, language production and word recognition - the things we see a baby acquire in the first couple of years of life. These are stored in specific lobes of the brain, such that damage to the brain areas impairs the ability of these functions, but does not disrupt the consciousness in higher subjective memory formation in the spirit body. There are points of transmission between brain and spirit body that allow the physical sensations to be registered in the spirit body. Anesthesia disrupts the transmission between them by chemically halting the neural side electrical signaling. At death, the spirit body separates spatially from the physical body and no longer receives the electrical signaling, which quickly subsides anyway. The spirit body has its own set of “senses” - often, NDEers will report a memory of 360 degree spherical visual awareness, ability to feel a bodily form (or not), hearing various sounds (wind, birds), and telepathic communication of thoughts between them and another sentient “being(s)”. While connected with an earthly body, awareness is limited by the physical capabilities and range of the body’s sensory organs, like a filter.
explain to a 1950's IBM computer scientist .. "Cloud storage and cloud computing" before the internet before modern front side bus's and hard drives and chip's .. it weald sound either impossible or magical. How many mechanism's are we not not even aware of yet?
Since Galilei Science proof das in this ways. First experience. Secound searching proof though observation Guys are showing ia anti Science because though gos concept concern brains are baseless speculations. Hilarious hipotesy from ignorant guys.
Rudi is being intellectually dishonest by suggesting an anti science viewpoint. Memory can it be stored outside the brain based on consciousness. His arguments are based in religion where consciousness reigned supreme. There is no reason to take that viewpoint. Based on observations we experience a virtual reality created inside our head with the external world appearing to us as something that it is not. A lot of our assumptions about the world are flawed. Things like space, time, shape, color and size does not exists in the world. They are virtual experiences. The only positive thing we can say about the word is that it is, was and will ever be.
@@kos-mos1127 I recommend you check out Bernardo Kastrup and Analytic Idealism. I think Rudi is coming from a genuine place if he believes consciousness is fundamental and that all is happening in consciousness
I agree with Tanzi that it's possible that the brain is itself an object in consciousness (which is essentially another way of saying "consciousness is fundamental" as opposed to matter etc). But the reason this possibility appeals to many people is misguided. Specifically, the appeal of this idea to a lot of people is the assumption that it makes the possibility that our personal conscious experience can somehow survive death more plausible. But it doesn't, because even if "consciousness" in _some_ mysterious sense _is_ fundamental, and physical brains are themselves "objects in consciousness", the fact remains that our personal conscious experience, which is the only form of consciousness that matters to us, is still clearly dependent upon brain processes. Also, it's certainly possible (of broadly implausible) that our memories are stored outside the brain and synaptic activity merely retrieve them, you're still going to lose all your memories when you die since that synaptic activity forever ceases once your brain dies (even if your brain is just an object in consciousness). If consciousness was fundamental in the sense people want to think it is we would see dead people routinely reimagine themselves back in the flesh, and we don't.
So good discussion. I think that the memory storing problem can not be solved only on the "IN" side, in the context of IN and OUT. Rudolf Tanzi is right, you can not store the memory in a specific area of the body. This is the clue that I say: THERE ARE NO DISTINCT BODIES WHICH MEMORIES STORED.
I don’t believe that memories or any other mental phenomenon (outside of my senses perceiving an external world) are produced by anything outside of me. However, on maybe two or three occasions, I’ve experienced a scenario that I know I dreamed about days or maybe even a few weeks before the event. I cannot explain these. The Explanation that my perception of the event was simply detoured through my memory doesn’t wash as I specifically remember dreaming it, including when……
Only an intelligence( like Man) ... makes, maintains, fixes, improves & fine tunes ... abstract & physical FUNCTIONS. Everything in the Universe is a Function .. processes inputs into outputs ... and has clear & obvious purpose, properties, form & design. Science ( a Function) completely relies on the fixed Laws of Nature( functions) for Man ( a Function) to explain natural phenomena ( functions). Man has always known that the Universe & Life have an UNNATURAL origin by a very powerful intelligence( like Man). This is why 5 of 7 billion people believe in a soul/spirit & a supernatural intelligence ( the gods) that made everything. The remaining 2 billion believe in the theories, ideologies or secular rhetoric of the only known intelligence in the Universe. Again. Everything is a Function with a set purpose & design ... by an intelligence. Is there a religion that has clearly identified the intelligence that made the Universe & Life ... and the purpose for everything? God created Man to live with Him forever as His children. But God knew Man would sin and would have to be punished so deliberately made Man with a physical Body & a non-physical Soul. Man also was given the ability to pro-Create. Only God knows what will satisfy God's just nature to punish any who sin. And that would be God becoming a perfect Human like Adam ... and taking the sins of anybody who believes onto himself... and then being punished by God. The Son of God created Man with a body & Soul less than 6000 years ago. The Son of God obeyed the Father, and became the Passover Lamb to atone for all sins for those who believe. God punished the body & the soul ... of the Lamb, bring forgiveness of sin & salvation for those who simply .... believe. Simple & perfect plan by a Loving but Just God. Jesus had to physically die ... & ... his soul did go to Hell for three days. God did provide the sacrifice that would satisfy a Just God who must punish law breakers. Man was originally created with an immortal body & soul ... with free will and the ability to proCreate. Angels were created with ONLY a immortal & very powerful spirit ... with free will and NOT able to proCreate. God is Spirit, and has always existed. The MIND of an intelligence that God, Man,& Angels are ... is supernatural & eternal. The complete Man ... is body & Soul ... not one or the other. The Mind of Man is Body & Soul. Both the body & soul hold memories. The Soul completely relies on the Body .... for consciousness of the physical existence and for thoughts & actions. When the body dies ... the soul then becomes conscious of the nonphysical existence ... with all the memories from a life on Earth. The mind of an animal is only the Body(brain). It does not have a soul. This is why Man's Mind is both physical(brain) & non-physical(Soul). And this is why Jesus( Son of God) said we must "Love God with all your Mind, Body & Soul." Jesus actually used the word "heart" for body with the Mind obviously being in the head of the body. God was confirming the MIND of Man ... is body & soul.
Memory has related neural correlates, I would wager that memory emerges from brain states rather than vice versa. RLK is correct, Tanzi’s necessary consciousness is a massive supposition, grounded on precognition and incomprehension of infinity. Tanzi’s proposition is unexpectedly simple minded.
Carlo Rovelli explains how memory arises in microphysics every time one information is produced by the brain. Information is the result of the movement from a to b (thermodynamic energy), and this movement the brain can produce over and over again, which is memory. Rovelli discovers this when he proves that a free choice is determined in microphysics (a choice is determined, but not which choice - the choice is free).
I work in hospital where elderly demented patients who could not recognise their children for many years and brain scan showed impaired brain suddenly recalled their names before they passed away.Where did they get the names right if for years they could not.
perhaps the 'feeling' related to the memory is associated with that a to b move under gravity, a cycloid of one type or another also described by what we see in nature as a product of efficiency, and thus reinforced
Carlos Rovelli isn't explaining anything, he is simply postulating a theory that has nearly zero empirical evidence. Nobody knows how memory in the brain works, just as we do not understand how consciousness arises.
Carlo Rovelli may be right about how the memory is generated (arises). But in the video they are not discussing this. They are discussing where memories are stored, after we picture them, so that we can recall them. Unfortunately there is not an answer to this by the brain science.
At 3:35 "How would you justify and explain it all - memory as being stored in a sea of consciousness outside the brain." To this, I would answer "Culture." Culture is the top-down causation that engages with the bottom-up (see George Ellis in the 17 Apr 2022 episode "Is Emergence Fundamental?"). Norman Doidge is a pioneer of the insight that experience wires the neuroplastic brain. For humans, that experience comes overwhelmingly from culture. *All* experience, from family to social, is framed in our cultural context, hence Doidge's inference relating culture to neural "wiring". Let's explore. In the first instance, in the context of semiotic theory (Charles Sanders Peirce), habit provides the foundation for memory (eg, Miller, 1978, below). Memory as habits of thought would appeal to our intuition. But habit alone is not enough. Peirce's three categories can be reinterpreted in the context of: 1) motivation; 2) association (associative learning, conditioning); 3) habituation. This implies that motivation and association are also integral to the persistence of memory. Hence the relevance of culture and language, because culture and language provide the associations that nourish our motivations. Why is association, the second of Peirce's categories, so important in memory? What are the mechanisms for learning from culture? Let's take a look at Peirce's 3 categories again. Where habituation plays a crucial role in memory's persistence across time, association now plays a crucial role in language and culture. In language, for example, all logic and reason are expressed in sentences, which are nothing more than the association of concepts (words) into strings of logic and meaning. We are immersed in the sea of language, and language keeps reminding us of the things we should remember. If you want to forget your past, leaving your culture and language is a crucial first step. And finally, we arrive at motivation, the first of Peirce's categories. Where does motivation come from? The mind-body problem relates directly. Bodies wire neuroplastic brains. There's a biosemiotic interpretation of Peirce's pragmatism - namely, how does an agent "define the things that matter?" Humans have hands and vocal chords, and so for human agents, words and language matter. Dogs with fur and paws, fish with scales and fins, birds with feathers and wings, are predisposed to priorities that are different to those of humans. None of these non-human agents have hands or vocal chords, and that's why you won't be able to hold a conversation with them. They don't have the bodies that wire for language. Nothing in these critters is "programmed" into the brain, because *all* brains are neuroplastic. Bodies (including the chemistries, hormones, etc that comprise them) wire neuroplastic brains. It's that simple. It has to be. In the absence of any sky-daddy, creator, magician or "genetic programmer", there can only ever be fundamental laws of nature. So far, we've discussed the Peircean categories directly. But we're not done yet, because these categories play out in other dimensions of psychology, as well. And this brings us to imitation in culture, which is simply a recontextualization of the Peircean categories. Imitation in culture is how we learn our language and how we learn about the things that matter (pragmatism). Culture informs us, for example, about the things we should associate and habituate. It's not just the language that wires our brains, but also the things we associate and habituate *as directed by language* - our language tells us what to recognize. We are immersed in culture, we are products of culture, to an extent that established narratives are ill-equipped to explain. Culture is the "sea of consciousness outside the brain" that Robert is looking to define. Nothing more, nothing less. [There is a wider possibility in the context of QM entanglement and Jung's "collective unconscious" - but I don't want to indulge in conjecture that we are not yet in a position to test, so let's keep things simple and verifiable] What happens when humans are isolated from culture? In the most extreme cases, they forget that they are even human. The fascinating topic of feral children relates. The Peircean categories, motivation, association and habituation, are not confined to complex animals like us. They extend also to neurons, in the first instance - refer Eric Kandel and his work on association and habituation in Aplysia - and arguably, to other cells as well. Hence the relevance to a broader, more encompassing semiotic framework, in the biosemiotic theory of Jakob von Uexküll. Bodies wire neuroplastic brains, and this is why biosemiotic theory is especially relevant. [And finally, there are grounds for factoring in DNA entanglement, as the only possible mechanism for providing neurons (and other body cells) with immediate access to collective (self) information, in much the same way that telecommunications provide every human in a city with immediate access to collective (cultural) information - but that's another topic for another day] *CONCLUSION* Memory is not "stored" anywhere. There is no section of the brain that specializes in memory storage. Sections of the brain do specialize in language, for example - that's not about storage, but about the functional specializations that enable the distribution of meaning, which engages with the whole mind-body. Which in turn, engages with culture. *CULTURE* is that "sea of consciousness outside the brain" that keeps reminding humans of the things that are important, the things to be remembered. If you leave your culture for a long enough time - severing yourself completely from it in language and habit - you will forget almost all of it. What residual memory remains will be attributable to your reflections on your past that have made you you... or, if one is suffering from obsessive-compulsive disorder, it can be attributable to a refusal to leave the past behind. Much of the contemporary life-science narrative is indeed a form of OCD, relying on confirmation bias to reaffirm old habits. [Closing note. If these ideas of which I write seem obscure or vague, it's because the reader is stuck within their cultural narrative, trying to force-fit pre-existing cultural concepts into an interpretation that extends beyond culture. Your reality, however, is not as real as your culture deceives you into believing it is. Culture really is a shared hallucination. Culture is The Matrix. But it is natural, following natural law, without recourse to any kind of programmed simulation] MILLER, J. F. (1978). The Role of Habits in Peirce’s Metaphysics. The Southwestern Journal of Philosophy, 9(1), 77-85.
Rudi's view is admirable. Even though I am aware RLK doesn't read comments, I like to forward a very advantageous consideration, why memory SHOULD be stored outside our body, more specifically, rather inside the earth: If that be the case, then composition of beings inside the earth and their delivery through plants can be particle physically influenced through thought process once we discover that mechanism, thereby enabling rectification of birth defects before they occur.
Man I love how he always challenges everyone he talks to - like, there no sneaking anything past him with a bullshit answer. No matter how good you are at your field, your statements will be carefully scrutinized.
Have you ever forget what you were going to say and tried to remember but it slipped away.. but then when you let it go, it came back to you? That's because we don't have the free will to remember. It's just something our brain does when we let go of control and let it do it's thing.
I love to hear about dreams. what happens to us while we sleep, where do we go? and how are these magical and creative stories created and explored while we sleep? are we in control of them or are we just on for the ride? is there an interview which talks about this?
It is true that all a human knows about the world is the experiences the human has. You can never experience the world. You experience your experiences of the world, not the world itself. That does not mean the external world does not exist. It just means the external world cannot enter the brain and be experienced directly. Memory is an aspect of the phenomena of subjective experience. We will never understand memory until we understand what the phenomena of subjective experience is.
The greater the experience the greater the memory the greater the observation. Observation is a temporal and Qntm event. Neurology is electrical. The observation is a state of electrical arrangement. The arrangements are recallable across time in entanglement in the way entanglement is observed in a simplified way across space. However, the greater the distance in space, time is found as a non factor in the entanglement. As our neurology is a continuous 4thD worldline of arrangements, it's a matter of connections to different states upon that chain. Think of a strainer sieve sifting through sand in which most sand uniformly fall in no particular pattern. However one strainer has a unique pattern upon which the sand falls and settles in a unique way. Those patterns are continuous across time as their deposits upon the beach are recognizable. However minute variations (the electrical arrangements marking an observation) of that pattern in time discern differences upon that trail, "recallable" by looking back upon our patterns.
I am interested how does memory works in death ?🤔 I wonder 🤔after all before this planet ever formed we were nothing 😐and when we die we will be nothing again😐 it’s very interesting it’s like how would we ever know if earth would ever form? We could have all ready Ben dead a long time ago 😐also why were we not any random animal why out of things why we are a human ? Not just a human but also a human in a specific point 😐it’s very strange 🤔
The guy is on the right track .. Consciousness is part of each human body but , not attached. Humans have a way to go before they grasp intelligence and the conscientious are non sensible qualities . We dwell much too much on everything that exists must be of material matter. It ain’t …
since we have the fossil records that show us how lifeforms evolved from simple to complex then how brains evolved I feel it’s very likely that consciousness appeared at some point in animals with extremely complex brains. Then for the question of how the memories are stored there are artificial neurons that are inspired from nature and they can both store information and make computations at the same time so I think the real neurons could work similarly. Basically there is short term memory that works chemically and long term memory that is given by synapses configuration and strength. The synapses strength is equivalent to chemical activation for a short time like minutes. A simple neural network can be understood on how it works I mean something composed of like 20-30 neurons but if you go further and add many types of neurons it becomes impossible to predict what the network will do. Naural network were tuned by evolution then the information for the initial configuration of the brain is stored in the dna, that includes instincts and possibly some memories that might have been injected into the dna during a traumatic intense experience, that’s speculation. but artificial networks can be tuned using techniques within minutes to do the task you want. real neurons work like individual processors at about 40Hz even more so our brain can have 80bilions processors whereas a normal computer can have 8 cores or more but still a much smaller number at 2Ghz
The “sea of consciousness” seems like a more reasonable supposition for mental faculties than the brain? Uhh no, I think he has an alternative understanding of reasonable..
I agree, it also doesn't really address the "reasonableness" of existing theories of consciousness - not that they are complete - but for example consciousness as the emergent phenomena of an extremely complex system. That to *me* seems far more reasonable than conscious or memory as something exterior, which as the interviewer points out is vastly more difficult to prove/disprove. There's a lot going on in the brain that we don't understand and it might be more comfortable to point to an exterior explanation but its foolish to discount the idea that such a complex system might somehow arise consciousness. Either way he is correct - we don't know (yet)
Good guest, I’m always on exact same page as Robert when he’s questioning guests. Robert is a China expert I want to know his thoughts on Taiwan can he do a current events show as well?
So to answer the question : " how to remember things ? " the simplest answer : Repetition . And its because if memory is a kind of synapse, and they get stronger with repetition, the more they fire, the stronger and faster they get.
The Soul does seemingly retain a form of memory, not exactly how sense preception memory of our pyscho-physical experience and brain categorizes events here, rather more of a recollection sense, or coming to Know again itself, it's true form and Source, when no longer confined, limited, or affected by the sense world and sense preception objects and the memory from that. For Soul, the very Knowing, or Wisdom, the Soul itself found in reconcilation of the Intellegible realities is outside the brain and the physical plane, and is the Soul. This video is closer to Truth.
@@afterlightstorytime that's cute. Futile is it to teach one who hasn't desposed themselves to that of the learning. I cannot prove your ignorance wrong as it is a state you unwillingly are in. Voluntary is it when you realize that endeavorment of learning is a choice, and if you seek it only then can teaching be of any benefit. I see no benefit here in proving your own ignorance wrong tomyourself, as it would be more of an enquiry than to discuss the Truth of all matters.
@@S3RAVA3LM you can't prove my supposed ignorance, because you have no way to prove what you believe. You are the one making a claim, so you are the one who needs to provide evidence and proof. You can't, which is why you lash out in such an infantile way.
@@afterlightstorytime No, you are claiming a postulate to be true -- that which matter produces its own form, it's own beauty, it's own parts and composites as a whole, even that it produced itself, and is life itself someway somehow and even gives life to other objects and gives beings existence, yet there is no proof of this and your position is baloney for any starting point for enquiry. You deny the Soul because you lack Reason to see; not because you actually ever had evidence to know it not true. You're an atomists, a materialist. There is no reason why i should take part in an enquiry with a supercilious spurious insolent such as yourself. If you believe that I cannot prove my claim then that's your belief. I never said I couldn't prove what I claim, rather you're not worth the effort, because you care more about your belief, then Reason. Thus it is tossing pearls to swine. Thumb your self up all day. Your a Troll, 3 month old account, 2 comments here, and you're only intention is to obscure people from, Truth. And if people refrain from parting in your BS you are set to default to think they can't prove anything. That's cute. You're a horrible person and bad for society. You will be dealt with accordingly. You do not have a right in what you do.
It does not matter what you believe, or not. What matters is experience. Belief is is a mental concept. Reality is far from it. Santa Claus does not come even if you believe in him with all your heart. And also no formular of the universe will allow you to "know" reality since it is just a model. Knowledge comes outside of all formulas. I think, this is essentially what is stated here towards the end in other words, and by own experience, I agree.
memory, as we experience it, is only associated with an organic life form... and as such, it's safe to relate it with the body from where it originates... there's also cases claiming out of body or telepathic experiences, either with different chemicals or NDEs, but how do you even approach such cases, when there's no possible way to study them...
@@kos-mos1127 I usually relate it to a broken vase, which will never be the same after one tries to fix it back in place... maybe one day a powerful AI will be able to put all the required pieces back together, until then I don't expect much progress in this subject...
If memory is in the brain then all it can be is a recall of a certain state of configurations of neurological patterns. So perhaps certain present moment stimuli triggers that same configuration of neurological patterns which causes memories To be super imposed on present day reality.
Memory is stored in the pattern of constant activity between neurons. Anyone trying to find “where” memory is stored is wrong in the asking of the question and will never find an answer. A bit of knowledge that sealed the deal for me is that when a person b comes brain dead, they are actually dead. Brain dead means the state when there is no electrical activity in the brain. A coma is not brain dead. Someone can come back from a coma. Once electrical activity ceases in the brain, however, there has never been a case where a person has revived from that. Applying electrical stimulation at that point is useless. Losing the electrical activity in the brain causes the person to cease to exist. This says to me that our memory, our behavior, who and what we are, all of this resides in the ongoing electrical activity in our brains. Our neurons are wired to hold this, morph it, groove with it. And so, the electrical activity and the neuronal structure combined are “where memory is stored.” I don’t know of an experiment that proves this. It just makes intuitive sense.
Those our bases on observations rather than experimentation. Because of ethical there is a limit to what kind of experiments could be done when studying the human brain. Their was an experiment that showed memory in mice were stored in the electrical field of the brain.
You are merely guessing. People used to think that everything revolved around the earth and that the idea was intuitive. Actual scientific progress proved that idea incorrect. The truth is not always what seems to be intuitive.
@@mattcorregan4760 Yes, I am guessing. In scientific terms, it is called a hypothesis. The speaker in the video is guessing that memories are not stored in the brain. My guess is more rational…
@@JesseHelton I agree that your hypothesis is more rational, but that is just my opinion. The problem is that we have no empirical data to demonstrate "where" memory is stored. "Where" is the physical mechanism that occurs in the brain's neuronal structure somehow, or how it accesses some other entity or substance. Those I think are the only two choices and we don't have the technology yet to determine which or to understand the mechanism. It seems more likely to be a physical mechanism but advances in science have frequently been surprising. There certainly could be more than we can presently detect. To me memory is as mystifying as consciousness.
@@mattcorregan4760 My main point is that I currently think that “where” is “everywhere in the brain in a constantly moving way”, so any hypotheses that start by attempting to pinpoint any location will fail. As far finding the specific mechanisms to test, this requires, I think, either accurately replicating a biological brain or dissecting a living brain. Both would require crossing that ethical boundary, so I think we will not go there. I think this ethical boundary is actually innate to us, as a whole, so I think that even if a small, rare set of people did this, the results would be shunned by the rest of the world. The current state of AI, which is generally called Machine Learning (ML) is built on top of neural networks, which are modeled after how neurons in brains work. The current state of many ML models is that we can get spectacular results out of them, but we cannot pinpoint “where” any particular functionality is located. (ML is being used in self-driving cars, AR, and fake virtual human creation). If any researchers want to continue the “where” line of questioning, they could focus on studying these ML models and be completely free of any ethical limitations. In the book Hidden Spring, the author presents a theory that consciousness is comprised of feelings upon feelings that come from a plethora of Markov blankets that feed from one into another. Many ML models that I have seen can be viewed as a Markov blanket that could fit easily into a piece of human consciousness, so I think this theory has merit. I think that what will be connected together from these various fields, the result will be that a given neuron or even a set of neurons might be found to be involved in many disparate behaviors, thought processes and memories. This is why I think the where question won’t lead us to proper understanding.
Ujjwal B / Yes, it does. All the bilogical bodies, including humans, are each a big complex brain structure. In reality, all the phisical body is just a real extension of the brain ( like real "tactile" tentacles=real extensions, etc, of the brain ), evidently, arranged a bit more chaotically, but in fact it is all part of the same real "brain". It is all in reality the brain structure and function with its extended additional acquired evolutionary parasitic "bacteria" and "viruses". All as one structure that only appear as being like different structures!
Ujjwal B / Yes, "thought". What did I just talk about here? Something else? What do you think the "thought" is? Some voodoo unicorn flying through the air like a fart? The thought is created in the material brain structure by that material brain structure. If you burn your finger, in that extension of the brain called finger it is created the nerve pain sensation and together with its father that sits in your skull decides what to do, what tentacle-extension-nerve and muscle to collaborate with in order to resolve the situation. You didn't think that "thought, consciousness, feelings, sensations, emotions, etc", are supernatural phenomena, metaphysical BS, did you?😏 Do you think that you're smarter than your "finger"?🥴
Oysters are one of the creatures that keep tabs on the moon, and the lunar cycle influences how widely they open their shells and they have a circadian rhythm .How do oysters know about that, is that a kind of subconsciousness although they don't even have a nervous system?Maybe nature on our planet has some kind of subconsciousness. Maybe this sea of consciousness is a field. Maybe memories somehow are kept on this field. But first we have to clearly know what consciousness is. For example sleep is defined as a state of unconsciousness. although our brain can produce icons, pictures.
I think memory isn't stored in the brain, but rather in time. See, every neural connection and conceptual event that occurs within our brains was once derived from real, tangible structures in the physical world. Our thoughts, memories and everything else that makes us us initially began to crystallize (after birth) when inputs from the external world started to be fed into our neuron sandbox through our biological sensors. The languages we understand, the things we see with our eyes, the delicious food we taste, all of these things were once physical forces in space in the form of acoustic vibrations, electromagnetic radiation, molecular shapes, etc. In other words, everything we know about ourselves and the world is literally based on the physical arrangement and structure of forces in space that we once interacted with. According to the Block Universe Theory, time is a real thing. The past and future are solid physical structures in spacetime, and the present is everywhere all at once but particularly apparent to the physical "stuff" in each slice. If block universe is true, it may be that there's a temporal connection between all of these slices of spacetime and that our neurons are just access nodes to these structures. This would mean that our memories and concepts of the world are saved as structural models in spacetime, with our neuronal networks simply referencing them as "saved information" in its feedback loops.
Like the jellyfish moving by forming a torus of sea water, holding it and forming another to bounce and use enhanced ground effect, the being of a person might be the energy exchange (?) or usage by seeing, smelling etc using a bit of that thing's energy to form a torus or two and proceed that way. It uses what's there to stretch out in block space and access the memory there?
The ancient philosopher-scientists knew the limitations of the material brain. They had open minds unconstrained by agenda and so they were able to proceed wherever their (unfettered) intellect led them to--towards a "soul," a transcendental pure personality that is the fount of all consciousness and memory.
I think the question of "where memory is stored", may not be exactly correct one (if one means a specific location). Because we can't even answer this question for artificial deep learning systems. If one looks at a convolutional neural nets (CNN), used in vision systems, you have layers of matrixes, that store numbers, which by themselves, don't mean anything. The thing works together, as a whole. And when operating together, they are able to recognize different faces. This is one of the complaints about modern AI, the "interpretability" problem. And when something goes wrong, e.g., the problem of "bias", it's hard to debug. The problem is not altogether intractable. There are clues. In the CNN, one can look at the different layers. One can see different layers pick up different features, different levels of abstraction, which in the final layer, allows it to make a call (with a certain probability). E.g., in recognizing a face, some layers pick up texture. Another certain shape motifs, like the curvature of an eye, a whole set of features that are built up compositionally. One can pick out a few artificial "neurons" near the final layer, that pulls the whole configuration together, and makes the call. Though it's not quite correct to say that's where the "memory" is stored there. It's stored in the whole system. The same can be said about localization in the brain. I've heard of surgeons stimulating certain areas, and it would prompt certain memories in certain patients. It doesn't mean the memory is stored there. Dr. Tanzi would explain this as a "gateway" to a transcendental realm. But one can easily imagine a more naturalistic explanation. (BTW. This is not to say we know how the brain stores memories. The level of unknowns in neuroscience is even greater than machine learning. The brain is much harder to probe, than a machine.) The other reason why one might suspect memory might be stored in the brain, might be false or inaccurate memories. E.g., can include inconsistent witness accounts in a crime scene. Or hypnosis, where one recalls memories, about child abuse. Our memories do not work like an iPhone camera. There's a good deal of evidence that "memory" involves some kind of synthesis, to create some kind of coherent narrative about the self, or how things are viewed in the world. So it maybe an amalgam of a lot of things, some of which maybe factually accurate, others not so much. This probably may correspond to the synaptic pruning and consolidation the brain. Though this is speculation. What Dr. Tanzi proposes, might be something like the "Akashic records" in many spiritualist traditions. All of one's experiences, actually all spacetime events, is recorded, and stored somewhere, and can be replayed, with accuracy. A NDE life review, would be an example of this. This then raises a whole set of ontological issues.
Materialists had better hope (as in, the secular equivalent of pray) that the brain has some kind of (*extensive*) quantum computing capability, because that is the only thing that is going to save the idea of "storage" (whether it be alleged in "structures" or in "incredible complexity" (whatever that is supposed to mean). IMO, memory consists of direct access to noumenal states, which is why there is no storage either possible or found. These states are probably not even being accessed in space-time, but are pulled into it by the retrieval process (and altered during that process). There is a reason why all diseases of memory are really displaying an access impairment and show versions of that characteristic.
There evidently exists the distict possibility that memory is not stored in the brain in the way we think of how data are filed and stored in a computer. In short, memory is not stored in the brain.
@4:02 this is a typical case of deja vu = error in sensory data processing where current stimulus is incorrectly "pushed" into memory area so it gets mischaracterized as a memory of an event in the past
We all remember, or at least should, what we had for breakfast. It was only a few minutes/hours ago. Chances are the memory isn't in the brain. But, then, where?
I have watched a lot of this series of talks about consciousness and have reached the following conclusion. None of the scientists have a clue of what consciousness is, or where it resides. Perhaps we will never know, because if we discover the truth, we will lose it and disappear from this universe. Consciousness can only exist because it can't exist in the first place. So is the meaning of everything, just nothing.
Consciousness is not a thing so we can never say what it is. Consciousness is stream that deal with objects independent of itself. The ideas that there is no external world is self defeating.
@@roybrewer6583 I stated facts. Idealism taken to its extreme means by force of will we should be able to regenerate our head or recover from a fatal energy. In reality we cannot do any of these we our limited by physical reality. We are limited by our physical limitations. We are limited by our environment. Consciousness being fundamental means we are the environment.
@@kos-mos1127 you are entitled to your opinion. Can you reference the paper on "fatal energy" that's a new one to me. We have no idea what consciousness is, and that's a fact, lol.
Its easy or discover whats already there. Yes,it might take time but where and how will it be discover if it doesn't or never exist at all? Is memory exist in a way humans understand it or it just the understanding of memory makes memory exist within or outside the brain?
Aren't wrinkles in the brain indicative of memory storage? Vivid dreams are not the same thing as memory. God speaking to you isn't a memory. I knew what my profession would be at age five because God told me. I knew I would be a technician at an airport but not an airplane mechanic. I just retired after working 30 years as an airline ground service technician. Why would I lie about it? Why would I lie about God speaking to me when He speaks to everyone?
A "Sea of Consciousness"? Why don't I have access to YOUR memories, or Joe's or Mary's? I'll just jump in my "think boat" and go looking for good memories. He was making sense util this idea.
possibly not the memories stored but the awareness object attached to the being of the person still there in symmetric time, so a memory is a matching back to that point in time, still there in symmetric time but the body moved on; if the awareness can be matched..it never changes in quality, only quantity it seems
There is a potential way to learn what is conciousness: - Create a computer model of a neuron, and start the simulation - Connect it to a biological brain, and let it train to adjust weights and become functional - Now kill one neuron of the biological brain - Repeat (no need to go one by one, that was just to illustrate the concept but it could be done by blocks, as long as they have enough time to train and adjust synapse weights ) - Now the question is, what happens when you kill the last neuron and even disconnect the computer from the body? is it still conscious?
I also wondered, Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation disturbs recall on synapse level, but is it also somehow possible to keep the synapse action intact but only interfere with the brain waves themselves (which are electromagnetic). This way we could test if qualia are chemical or electromagnetic
It is hard for me to believe qualia could be chemical because chemical reactions are discrete and local but the sensory field seems to unify a lot of disparate information. Electromagnetic (or at least some type of resonating field) seems like a better candidate to unify information.
I've wondered about all those beautiful days with family and friends, all the moments that I wish would last forever. Then, I thought, I bet that God is saving them for me/us. I know that He is. This was a fascinating interview. Thank you, CTT!
Believes certain GOD are living in heaven. However when YOU are living GOD with that discussion are so hilarious. Guys Notm show up honest concept concern conscieness. They are si ridiculus and hilarious.
Memory is stored in the Exclusion Zone, Masculine (-) Vacuum Energy in the Cell Water and Energy is information… Therefore, with sound logic and EVIDENCE from the laboratory, my Consciousness Theory of Memory proves true and is “Confirmed”… Radiant Energy…
@@kos-mos1127 There is only a big difference if you don't believe in the God of the Jews & Christians. Science clearly proves the Universe & Life were UNNATURALLY made by a very powerful intelligence. History has shown the God of the Jews & Christians is the intelligence that made everything ... & ... why? You have free will ... to think, believe, say & do whatever you want ... with the sciences & religions. Man has always known ... the Universe & Life have an UNNATURAL origin by a very powerful intelligence ... because we all know the oring of rules & Laws AND anything that has clear purpose, properties, design & FUNCTION. Whether a headhunter from a tribe in the jungles of Papua New Guinea or a theoretical Physicist .. you know that everything in the Universe has clear purpose, form, design & function and that there are some sort of natural Laws that govern everything. Atheism is also a religion, which simply replaced "the gods" with the theories, ideologies and secular beliefs of "the men." Either all of the religions are wrong ... or ... there is one that has correctly identified the intelligence that made everything. The four major religions are: 1. Christianity ( sect of Judaism) 2. Islam ( a perverse violent pagan cult that corrupted Christian teachings) 3. Hinduism 4. Humanism( worship of secular beliefs & theories of Man). Remove Christianity from world History ... and the Human Race would now be extinct. Why does the world have a 7 day week? Man had the "week" before God called Abraham to be the father of the Jews, and Moses wrote Genesis with the 6 Day creation & the 7th Day is to be for God. The New Testament was written 1900 years ago and revealed the reason for the 6 day creation & the 7th is to be for God. One day is like 1000 years for God, and Jesus( The Son of God) will return for a 1000 year reign before Judgement Day ... but ... after Man has ruled the Earth for 6 x 1000 years. Genesis was written 3400 years ago, and clearly explained why God created Man, the Fall of Man, and what God was going to do to save Man from his Just nature. Man was originally created perfect with a body & soul .. with free will and the ability to pro-Create .. to live forever with God ... but only if Man obeyed once simple rule or Law. Do not eat from the tree of knowledge for if you do, will die. The Universe we know today began with the Fall of Man. The Jews reject Jesus as the Messiah(Savior) but believe they are living in end times when their Messiah will appear to save them from their enemies and bring everlasting peace. The current jewish year since the Fall of Man is ... 5 783. So the Son of God returns for a 1000 year reign ... after Man has rule the Earth for 6 x 1000 years ... and the Jews are expecting their Messiah very soon. There are only differences if you don't believe in the God of the Jews & Christians. Christianity is the only religion that has correctly identified the intelligence that made everything ... & ... why? And as foretold in the Bible of the Jews & Christians ... most will reject God ... to follow idols or ideologies of Man. Everything in the Universe is a Function ... made by an intelligence ... for a reason. God made Man for a reason, and is doing what only He can do, to save Man from His just nature to punish anybody who breaks His laws. All Law has to be obeyed & enforced ... otherwise there will be chaos, disorder or dire consequences. All Law ... provides structure, direction, ORDER, boundaries and ideal, repeatable, & predictable behavior or .. properties. God is indeed perfect, pure, good, righteous, Loving, merciful, patient, kind ... and ... Just. God knew if would take 7000 years ... for the last Human Being to be pro-Created by Man ... who would believe in God's free gift of Salvation. After the 7000 years of pro-Creation there will be no Human Beings what would ever believe in Jesus as Lord & Savior. This is why God created the 7 day week ... when he could have Created everything in a blink of an eye. God is continuously giving Man ... sign after sign ... of His existence and His Nature. But Man has free will ... and an evil nature that is getting worse over time. C'mon. Look at what the civilized, developed & technologically advance Russians are do to Ukraine. Again. Humanism is a religion where the Man worships the ideologies and secular beliefs of Man( an intelligence). Only Christianity has got God ... correct. And the Bible constantly warns Man to to follow the idols & teachings of Man ... but to "Love God with all your mind, body & soul AND Love your neighbor as you love yourself." What two great commandments does Islam, Hinduism, Atheism, Capitalism, Marxism, Darwinism etc offer Mankind ... which will make the World a better and happier place? Science proves the Universe is a Function composed entirely of Functions made by an intelligence. Christianity proves God the Father, Son & Holy Spirit is the intelligence( singular) that made everything & why? Stop cancelling God ... to follow Man's ways. Again. Remove Christianity from World History .. and the Human Race would now be extinct or a horrible world to live it.
With memory of past having to do with time, and if quantum wave function evolves over time (past, present and future); then could be memory stored in quantum wave function?
it is not out there in the sky ! there are only two types of consciousness: one generated by self concept "consciousness type one" the other one is part of self concept "consciousness type two" all are in the brain, there is nothing in the sky ! how many time should I repeat that !
According to the TNGS, memory is a process of dynamic recategorization. It is a system process, not identifiable with any particular group of neurons or area in the brain. It's becoming clear that with all the brain and consciousness theories out there, the proof will be in the pudding. By this I mean, can any particular theory be used to create a human adult level conscious machine. My bet is on the late Gerald Edelman's Extended Theory of Neuronal Group Selection. The lead group in robotics based on this theory is the Neurorobotics Lab at UC at Irvine. Dr. Edelman distinguished between primary consciousness, which came first in evolution, and that humans share with other conscious animals, and higher order consciousness, which came to only humans with the acquisition of language. A machine with primary consciousness will probably have to come first. The thing I find special about the TNGS is the Darwin series of automata created at the Neurosciences Institute by Dr. Edelman and his colleagues in the 1990's and 2000's. These machines perform in the real world, not in a restricted simulated world, and display convincing physical behavior indicative of higher psychological functions necessary for consciousness, such as perceptual categorization, memory, and learning. They are based on realistic models of the parts of the biological brain that the theory claims subserve these functions. The extended TNGS allows for the emergence of consciousness based only on further evolutionary development of the brain areas responsible for these functions, in a parsimonious way. No other research I've encountered is anywhere near as convincing. I post because on almost every video and article about the brain and consciousness that I encounter, the attitude seems to be that we still know next to nothing about how the brain and consciousness work; that there's lots of data but no unifying theory. I believe the extended TNGS is that theory. My motivation is to keep that theory in front of the public. And obviously, I consider it the route to a truly conscious machine, primary and higher-order. My advice to people who want to create a conscious machine is to seriously ground themselves in the extended TNGS and the Darwin automata first, and proceed from there, by applying to Jeff Krichmar's lab at UC Irvine, possibly. Dr. Edelman's roadmap to a conscious machine is at arxiv.org/abs/2105.10461
How can memories be storaged out of the brain? we know everything fly's away or disolves if nothing holds it in a gravitational field, so why do some think of external consciousness and storage of thoughts? we should think of an infinite space in the brain as an infinite universe, it has storage out of our imagination. We know by now, that consciousness grows with us, so why are people still talking about flying consciousness that docks on human brains, if that was the case, when did each consciousness appear in the scene and how did it get in the brain with all the knowledge it brought from somewhere? I think too many are confused and not understanding the meaning of consciousness and that it has to develope until a certain degree that overtakes an independent position for decision making out of the informations and experiences it gathered in its development. Our anscestors died and took their consciousness with them, the only inherited informations of the past in form of body structures are in our genes. No flying consciousness of our anscestors interfering in any way. Imaginations is to be understood, as a creative stage for concepts, and not for illusionary supernatural, appearances, spirits, souls, and fear.
@@abelincoln8885 we had this conversation already not long ago. An intelligence would not waste time to punish his creation, to make rules and allow sins, to create a heaven and hell, allow wars and evil doings, this is just humans thoughts and imaginations, humans abuse each other, that doesn't fit to an all loving all mighty intelligence, no way would our world be like it is, if it was created by an intelligence.
@@abelincoln8885 you must admit it makes no sense. For a God with all the power of creating whatever he wants, it would be a reductionism to a level of primitive primates, and that is unacceptable even for intellectual developed humans. We have the year 2022, no supernatural beings, spirits, ghosts, souls, have ever shown up or take active part on human life, its only in a disordered mind taking place, or under drug influences. But believe whatever you want, you're free to do so I guess.
Could it be that memory comes from the cognitive ability of the brain to process everything you have learned of the world and all the relationships? I can think of many reasons why this doesn't provide an answer but requires a nonmaterial property such as the mind. this then require belief beyond nature and it's rules
I see how frustrated Robert is while Rudolph is open to the possibility of memory being product of Consciousness. In some way Robert is very biased with the physical aspect of reality and feels everything is a product of material. I followed lot of his videos on this topic but he unwillingly to even consider the possibility of Anything which is not physical. :)
Apparently, as a person who has been dealing with this problem for years, including professionally, he has reasons for this. His approach is quite obvious to me.
If he knows how memory works we could have pills to improve it. And I don't know is answer too👍. I have those lucid dreams. I wake in the night sleep again and dream continues which it was. Like pause still and then play button again!? Not often but couple of times in year.
Thank you, Dr. Tanzi, for preferring "I don't know" over just making something up, which seems to be an outgrowth of our existentially driven need for answers, even if they're wrong.
Science is not about "making stuff up". And neither is it proposing nonsense theories.
Robert was more feisty than usual.
@@ItsEverythingElse Are you sure Tanzi's idea is nonsense? If so, how are you sure? And if you were to assign Tanzi's "nonsense" idea a probability error, what criteria would you employ?
@@roccolobosco5499 We use established methods of deduction to arrive at that which is necessarily so..
Why is it that so few people bother to learn this, including most ‘scientists’?
spaceandmotion
Ther will allways be wrong answers before right answers, - this is the process how we get it right.
This is what I call a good scientist. To admit we don’t know and that the current model is not satisfying. We must explore the other possibility, which is may be harder to study and to understand but which can explain many experiences as NDEs, OBEs, past life memories, shamanic transe, premonitory dreams etc. This possibility is that our consciousness is out of the brain , out of the physical world. The brain is a tool to access the information, to recall memories, as a hard drive access information stored in a cloud drive for example. I like this approach
I hate that approach. The problem in science is they view the brain as a computer. This view runs into problems because unlike a computer the brain is not storing information and recalling it. The brain forms memories using neurons connected in a complex way. This is the reason we have trouble understanding the hard problem of the mind.
The physical structure of neurons and interconnections between them are what gets interpreted as memories. NDE’s and OBE’s are not evidence of consciousness existing outside of the physical world. They require the brain and physical body to be active in order to experience them.
We have to explore the brain in its totality and how everything is interconnected as well as the strength of those connections in order to solve the hard problems. The problem for science is it’s easier to describe the simplified model of the brain rather than a more complex model.
@@kos-mos1127 "The brain forms memories using neurons connected in a complex way" this is an assumption. And it's still to vague: how it works? what is a complex way? why a complex organisation creates and/or stores memory? It is the most intuitive answer, but may not the right one. Why a very complex computer or AI did not create consciousness and/or memory by its own? Why unconscious stuff can create conscious beings?
And BTW most NDEs are experienced with a flat EEG... so the role of the brain is more than questionable here... Thousands or even million of people relate they were more conscious than ever, out of their body they felt everything as more real than the "incarnated" reality. As if a dead (or at least very diminished) brain gives you more conscious, more sensation, more feelings (and I don't speak about the other elements of NDEs as telepathy or life review and some vision of future or unknown information validated after the experience).
We must consider these elements in science. They are not anecdotes, they are too frequent and similar.
We are may be in front of a paradigm shift, that's why we tend to "hang" to the "old one". let's see what the future will tell us but I prefer the approach which explain the more things (and remain very interested by brain understanding, it's for sure an amazing bunch of meat 😝)
Why not invent god while you're at it? Save yourself a lot of trouble.
Your statement "out of the physical world" means nothing. Even if we don't understand how consciousness work it is still part of the physical world, in fact that is the only thing we know for sure.
@@javiej it’s not a statement but the other possibility which is very well documented today. So yes it’s out of the physical reality (not with particles of matter).
But when you say « consciousness is still part of the physical work » THIS is a statement. And this is precisely the question here: may be it’s NOT. « All we know »: no it’s all you know. Or all mainstream science knows. Many scientists or researchers in « post materialism » have a wider approach and begin to « know » more. Also interesting to study what indigenous people « know », their knowledge has several thousand years (far more than occidental science!), and they all say the same thing, they know there are more realities and this one is more like a dream compared to others (like NDE testimonies). Anyway…
Finally someone with a solid head on his shoulders! I love how he bluntly stated that we just don’t know. Also his explanation of scientific models at the end there was priceless.
..... what if he is wrong?!
@@greveudspringsklub4488 ...then he would be correct in saying that he didn't know he was correct about knowing when he was saying thay he didn't know. Duh!
I’d appreciate more of these “ain’t nobody have the answer” interviews, they’re at least as valuable as the other ones and probably more so!
Yes. Very true. 👍
When a neurologist of Tanzi's stature and others admit that it is at least possible consciousness exists beyond the brain, I have to admire that honesty. Nothing irks me more than dogmatic scientists and philosophers that have the hubris to talk with "certainty" on issues featured in this fine program.
I agree, at least it is a step in the right direction.
No. What irks you is they don't entertain that fantasy most of us humans have, which is to exist beyond our demise. Those scientists you mention have exactly the same fears you do, they just don't mix it up in their work. If there's a theory/model that is substantial enough, scientists will acknowledge it. If not, then it's pure speculation. You used the word 'admit' for Tanzi as if it's a truth people don't want to accept, categorically saying "we do not know" is NOT the same as this unsubstantiated theory is something I have to admit. Nonsense.
@@edit4310 You need to realize science is pseudoscience if you think it can say anything "objective" about reality. Since Kant, the Enlightenment hope of science revealing "truth" has been effectively dismantled. Science is good at organizing phenomena that homo sapiens have access to. Hence, it has great instrumental and pragmatic value to us but no ontological utility. There may be realms of knowledge and reality that we can never even in principal access. An earthworm has a primitive nervous system and interacts with it's environment like us; try teaching it calculus.
Consciousness is simply a state of awareness, perception, responsiveness & cognition ... of the environment ... by an ENTITY with a MIND.
Animals & Man are physical entities with a physical mind ... and therefore a consciousness of the physical environment.
So what is a consciousness outside of the brain of an animal or Man ... in the physical Universe? This doesn't make any sense.
What makes sense is if there is a NON PHYSICAL existence and Man possesses a SOUL or spirit ... and the Mind of Man is both physical(brain) and non-physical(soul). The soul relies completely on the living & heathy body & brain ... to be conscious of the physical environment and thoughts & actions? When the body dies, the Soul then become conscious of the Non-physical environment, has the memories from the physical body ... but can no longer interact & do things with the physical world.
Remember, that an entity with a MIND ... will have consciousness of the environment that the Mind is part of. Man is primarily a physical entity in a physical environment ... but he also has an eternal soul.
It also doesn't make any sense that Man has an eternal soul but a mortal body. But it does make sense that Man originally had an immortal body & soul ... and discobey God's order not to eat from the tree of knowledge. Silly Adam & Eve.
@@abelincoln8885 You jump to the conclusion that "Animals & Man are physical entities with a physical mind" without any proof. It may be materialism is true and most neuroscientists are right when it comes to consciousness , i.e. it is simply a byproduct of the physical brain, but at this point we are far from certain. Idealism and pantheistic conceptions of reality can't be easily dismissed, nor can the simulation hypothesis of people like Nick Bostrom. As far as the dualism of people like Descartes, that door can't be shut yet either. I appreciate scientists and philosophers with an open mind.
Wow! So does this mean that memories are not stored in the brain but merely bookmarked by the brain for retrieval from the conscious cloud? Is that a possiblility? We do not create consciousness but rather access it with our brain? Must be watched multiple times to savor the back and forth between materialistic Kuhn and "we don't know" Tanzi. Kuhn does his usual excellent job of pushing the argument so to speak, of creating a back and forth that propels the discussion. Another excellent, thought provoking episode. I love the triumphant smirk on Tanzi's face at the very end! Outstanding!!
See the answer "I don't know" is what most scientists don't know how to say because they feel they HAVE to give an answer and then that's where society gets mislead because they just make up anything that sounds fitting. Bravo to your courage and your honesty.
You forgot to include the subjective and varied memories of NDEs. Those memories in the NDE can be very complex, and different between persons. How are those created by a brain starving of oxygen, and where could they be stored for recall upon resuscitation? And what about those individuals who NDE, go OBE, even while the brain is under anesthesia? Happens! So, the complex experience of subjective memories are stored in the “spirit body” of a person. It is an energetic aggregate or node within the quantum field of consciousness in this multiverse.
There are some “memories” related to somatic experience which are stored in the brain, such as motor “macros”, like how to walk, grasp an object with the hand, swallowing, language production and word recognition - the things we see a baby acquire in the first couple of years of life. These are stored in specific lobes of the brain, such that damage to the brain areas impairs the ability of these functions, but does not disrupt the consciousness in higher subjective memory formation in the spirit body. There are points of transmission between brain and spirit body that allow the physical sensations to be registered in the spirit body. Anesthesia disrupts the transmission between them by chemically halting the neural side electrical signaling. At death, the spirit body separates spatially from the physical body and no longer receives the electrical signaling, which quickly subsides anyway. The spirit body has its own set of “senses” - often, NDEers will report a memory of 360 degree spherical visual awareness, ability to feel a bodily form (or not), hearing various sounds (wind, birds), and telepathic communication of thoughts between them and another sentient “being(s)”. While connected with an earthly body, awareness is limited by the physical capabilities and range of the body’s sensory organs, like a filter.
Your brain dosen't exist until you observe it so most peoples heads are empty ... lol :o
explain to a 1950's IBM computer scientist .. "Cloud storage and cloud computing" before the internet before modern front side bus's and hard drives and chip's .. it weald sound either impossible or magical. How many mechanism's are we not not even aware of yet?
I love the honesty to say we don’t know by scientists. Many people assume science has figured this out but if you’re honest the answer is no
Well I don't think that is correct. I know people are, on their own time working with levitation, sound gravitational waves...
Water is all of the above and transfers information
Since Galilei Science proof das in this ways. First experience. Secound searching proof though observation Guys are showing ia anti Science because though gos concept concern brains are baseless speculations. Hilarious hipotesy from ignorant guys.
Rudi is being intellectually dishonest by suggesting an anti science viewpoint. Memory can it be stored outside the brain based on consciousness. His arguments are based in religion where consciousness reigned supreme. There is no reason to take that viewpoint. Based on observations we experience a virtual reality created inside our head with the external world appearing to us as something that it is not. A lot of our assumptions about the world are flawed. Things like space, time, shape, color and size does not exists in the world. They are virtual experiences. The only positive thing we can say about the word is that it is, was and will ever be.
@@kos-mos1127 I recommend you check out Bernardo Kastrup and Analytic Idealism. I think Rudi is coming from a genuine place if he believes consciousness is fundamental and that all is happening in consciousness
I agree with Tanzi that it's possible that the brain is itself an object in consciousness (which is essentially another way of saying "consciousness is fundamental" as opposed to matter etc).
But the reason this possibility appeals to many people is misguided. Specifically, the appeal of this idea to a lot of people is the assumption that it makes the possibility that our personal conscious experience can somehow survive death more plausible.
But it doesn't, because even if "consciousness" in _some_ mysterious sense _is_ fundamental, and physical brains are themselves "objects in consciousness", the fact remains that our personal conscious experience, which is the only form of consciousness that matters to us, is still clearly dependent upon brain processes.
Also, it's certainly possible (of broadly implausible) that our memories are stored outside the brain and synaptic activity merely retrieve them, you're still going to lose all your memories when you die since that synaptic activity forever ceases once your brain dies (even if your brain is just an object in consciousness).
If consciousness was fundamental in the sense people want to think it is we would see dead people routinely reimagine themselves back in the flesh, and we don't.
So good discussion. I think that the memory storing problem can not be solved only on the "IN" side, in the context of IN and OUT. Rudolf Tanzi is right, you can not store the memory in a specific area of the body. This is the clue that I say: THERE ARE NO DISTINCT BODIES WHICH MEMORIES STORED.
The memory storage problem has been solved it’s just that Rudy does not accept their solution.
If I lose my hand, I will still have my memory.
Try to do the same with the head.
(do not do this!)
Oh what I would give to take a class with Tanzi!
Wow ok I wasn’t expecting this
I don’t believe that memories or any other mental phenomenon (outside of my senses perceiving an external world) are produced by anything outside of me. However, on maybe two or three occasions, I’ve experienced a scenario that I know I dreamed about days or maybe even a few weeks before the event. I cannot explain these. The Explanation that my perception of the event was simply detoured through my memory doesn’t wash as I specifically remember dreaming it, including when……
Only an intelligence( like Man) ... makes, maintains, fixes, improves & fine tunes ... abstract & physical FUNCTIONS.
Everything in the Universe is a Function .. processes inputs into outputs ... and has clear & obvious purpose, properties, form & design.
Science ( a Function) completely relies on the fixed Laws of Nature( functions) for Man ( a Function) to explain natural phenomena ( functions).
Man has always known that the Universe & Life have an UNNATURAL origin by a very powerful intelligence( like Man). This is why 5 of 7 billion people believe in a soul/spirit & a supernatural intelligence ( the gods) that made everything. The remaining 2 billion believe in the theories, ideologies or secular rhetoric of the only known intelligence in the Universe.
Again. Everything is a Function with a set purpose & design ... by an intelligence.
Is there a religion that has clearly identified the intelligence that made the Universe & Life ... and the purpose for everything?
God created Man to live with Him forever as His children. But God knew Man would sin and would have to be punished so deliberately made Man with a physical Body & a non-physical Soul. Man also was given the ability to pro-Create. Only God knows what will satisfy God's just nature to punish any who sin. And that would be God becoming a perfect Human like Adam ... and taking the sins of anybody who believes onto himself... and then being punished by God.
The Son of God created Man with a body & Soul less than 6000 years ago.
The Son of God obeyed the Father, and became the Passover Lamb to atone for all sins for those who believe. God punished the body & the soul ... of the Lamb, bring forgiveness of sin & salvation for those who simply .... believe.
Simple & perfect plan by a Loving but Just God.
Jesus had to physically die ... & ... his soul did go to Hell for three days. God did provide the sacrifice that would satisfy a Just God who must punish law breakers.
Man was originally created with an immortal body & soul ... with free will and the ability to proCreate.
Angels were created with ONLY a immortal & very powerful spirit ... with free will and NOT able to proCreate.
God is Spirit, and has always existed.
The MIND of an intelligence that God, Man,& Angels are ... is supernatural & eternal.
The complete Man ... is body & Soul ... not one or the other. The Mind of Man is Body & Soul. Both the body & soul hold memories.
The Soul completely relies on the Body .... for consciousness of the physical existence and for thoughts & actions. When the body dies ... the soul then becomes conscious of the nonphysical existence ... with all the memories from a life on Earth.
The mind of an animal is only the Body(brain). It does not have a soul. This is why Man's Mind is both physical(brain) & non-physical(Soul).
And this is why Jesus( Son of God) said we must "Love God with all your Mind, Body & Soul." Jesus actually used the word "heart" for body with the Mind obviously being in the head of the body. God was confirming the MIND of Man ... is body & soul.
This clip could be much shorter. Where is the memory? We don’t know. Thank you very much!
Memory has related neural correlates, I would wager that memory emerges from brain states rather than vice versa.
RLK is correct, Tanzi’s necessary consciousness is a massive supposition, grounded on precognition and incomprehension of infinity. Tanzi’s proposition is unexpectedly simple minded.
“I just don’t know” is the perfect answer to “give me an alternative” :-)
I really wish the CTT videos contained a reference to the recording date. Is this from 2017?
Carlo Rovelli explains how memory arises in microphysics every time one information is produced by the brain. Information is the result of the movement from a to b (thermodynamic energy), and this movement the brain can produce over and over again, which is memory. Rovelli discovers this when he proves that a free choice is determined in microphysics (a choice is determined, but not which choice - the choice is free).
Carlo Roveli aren show up consistence evidente though expermient . It is only hipotesy with obscure.proof.
I work in hospital where elderly demented patients who could not recognise their children for many years and brain scan showed impaired brain suddenly recalled their names before they passed away.Where did they get the names right if for years they could not.
perhaps the 'feeling' related to the memory is associated with that a to b move under gravity, a cycloid of one type or another also described by what we see in nature as a product of efficiency, and thus reinforced
Carlos Rovelli isn't explaining anything, he is simply postulating a theory that has nearly zero empirical evidence. Nobody knows how memory in the brain works, just as we do not understand how consciousness arises.
Carlo Rovelli may be right about how the memory is generated (arises). But in the video they are not discussing this. They are discussing where memories are stored, after we picture them, so that we can recall them. Unfortunately there is not an answer to this by the brain science.
Thank you Sir for this one ⚘
At 3:35 "How would you justify and explain it all - memory as being stored in a sea of consciousness outside the brain." To this, I would answer "Culture." Culture is the top-down causation that engages with the bottom-up (see George Ellis in the 17 Apr 2022 episode "Is Emergence Fundamental?"). Norman Doidge is a pioneer of the insight that experience wires the neuroplastic brain. For humans, that experience comes overwhelmingly from culture. *All* experience, from family to social, is framed in our cultural context, hence Doidge's inference relating culture to neural "wiring".
Let's explore.
In the first instance, in the context of semiotic theory (Charles Sanders Peirce), habit provides the foundation for memory (eg, Miller, 1978, below). Memory as habits of thought would appeal to our intuition. But habit alone is not enough. Peirce's three categories can be reinterpreted in the context of: 1) motivation; 2) association (associative learning, conditioning); 3) habituation. This implies that motivation and association are also integral to the persistence of memory. Hence the relevance of culture and language, because culture and language provide the associations that nourish our motivations.
Why is association, the second of Peirce's categories, so important in memory? What are the mechanisms for learning from culture? Let's take a look at Peirce's 3 categories again. Where habituation plays a crucial role in memory's persistence across time, association now plays a crucial role in language and culture. In language, for example, all logic and reason are expressed in sentences, which are nothing more than the association of concepts (words) into strings of logic and meaning. We are immersed in the sea of language, and language keeps reminding us of the things we should remember. If you want to forget your past, leaving your culture and language is a crucial first step.
And finally, we arrive at motivation, the first of Peirce's categories. Where does motivation come from? The mind-body problem relates directly. Bodies wire neuroplastic brains. There's a biosemiotic interpretation of Peirce's pragmatism - namely, how does an agent "define the things that matter?" Humans have hands and vocal chords, and so for human agents, words and language matter. Dogs with fur and paws, fish with scales and fins, birds with feathers and wings, are predisposed to priorities that are different to those of humans. None of these non-human agents have hands or vocal chords, and that's why you won't be able to hold a conversation with them. They don't have the bodies that wire for language. Nothing in these critters is "programmed" into the brain, because *all* brains are neuroplastic. Bodies (including the chemistries, hormones, etc that comprise them) wire neuroplastic brains. It's that simple. It has to be. In the absence of any sky-daddy, creator, magician or "genetic programmer", there can only ever be fundamental laws of nature.
So far, we've discussed the Peircean categories directly. But we're not done yet, because these categories play out in other dimensions of psychology, as well.
And this brings us to imitation in culture, which is simply a recontextualization of the Peircean categories. Imitation in culture is how we learn our language and how we learn about the things that matter (pragmatism). Culture informs us, for example, about the things we should associate and habituate. It's not just the language that wires our brains, but also the things we associate and habituate *as directed by language* - our language tells us what to recognize. We are immersed in culture, we are products of culture, to an extent that established narratives are ill-equipped to explain. Culture is the "sea of consciousness outside the brain" that Robert is looking to define. Nothing more, nothing less. [There is a wider possibility in the context of QM entanglement and Jung's "collective unconscious" - but I don't want to indulge in conjecture that we are not yet in a position to test, so let's keep things simple and verifiable]
What happens when humans are isolated from culture? In the most extreme cases, they forget that they are even human. The fascinating topic of feral children relates.
The Peircean categories, motivation, association and habituation, are not confined to complex animals like us. They extend also to neurons, in the first instance - refer Eric Kandel and his work on association and habituation in Aplysia - and arguably, to other cells as well. Hence the relevance to a broader, more encompassing semiotic framework, in the biosemiotic theory of Jakob von Uexküll. Bodies wire neuroplastic brains, and this is why biosemiotic theory is especially relevant.
[And finally, there are grounds for factoring in DNA entanglement, as the only possible mechanism for providing neurons (and other body cells) with immediate access to collective (self) information, in much the same way that telecommunications provide every human in a city with immediate access to collective (cultural) information - but that's another topic for another day]
*CONCLUSION*
Memory is not "stored" anywhere. There is no section of the brain that specializes in memory storage. Sections of the brain do specialize in language, for example - that's not about storage, but about the functional specializations that enable the distribution of meaning, which engages with the whole mind-body. Which in turn, engages with culture. *CULTURE* is that "sea of consciousness outside the brain" that keeps reminding humans of the things that are important, the things to be remembered. If you leave your culture for a long enough time - severing yourself completely from it in language and habit - you will forget almost all of it. What residual memory remains will be attributable to your reflections on your past that have made you you... or, if one is suffering from obsessive-compulsive disorder, it can be attributable to a refusal to leave the past behind. Much of the contemporary life-science narrative is indeed a form of OCD, relying on confirmation bias to reaffirm old habits.
[Closing note. If these ideas of which I write seem obscure or vague, it's because the reader is stuck within their cultural narrative, trying to force-fit pre-existing cultural concepts into an interpretation that extends beyond culture. Your reality, however, is not as real as your culture deceives you into believing it is. Culture really is a shared hallucination. Culture is The Matrix. But it is natural, following natural law, without recourse to any kind of programmed simulation]
MILLER, J. F. (1978). The Role of Habits in Peirce’s Metaphysics. The Southwestern Journal of Philosophy, 9(1), 77-85.
Love this guest. He shooting from the hip love it
Rudi's view is admirable. Even though I am aware RLK doesn't read comments, I like to forward a very advantageous consideration, why memory SHOULD be stored outside our body, more specifically, rather inside the earth:
If that be the case, then composition of beings inside the earth and their delivery through plants can be particle physically influenced through thought process once we discover that mechanism, thereby enabling rectification of birth defects before they occur.
Memory is stored in the body. People who are brain dead are gone. They have no memories or consciousness and kept alive by machines.
@@kos-mos1127
Bulldozing your view doesn't make it true!
Man I love how he always challenges everyone he talks to - like, there no sneaking anything past him with a bullshit answer. No matter how good you are at your field, your statements will be carefully scrutinized.
Have you ever forget what you were going to say and tried to remember but it slipped away.. but then when you let it go, it came back to you? That's because we don't have the free will to remember. It's just something our brain does when we let go of control and let it do it's thing.
Letting go of control is an act of free will.
Excellent.... thanks 🙏.
I love to hear about dreams. what happens to us while we sleep, where do we go? and how are these magical and creative stories created and explored while we sleep?
are we in control of them or are we just on for the ride? is there an interview which talks about this?
It is true that all a human knows about the world is the experiences the human has. You can never experience the world. You experience your experiences of the world, not the world itself.
That does not mean the external world does not exist. It just means the external world cannot enter the brain and be experienced directly.
Memory is an aspect of the phenomena of subjective experience. We will never understand memory until we understand what the phenomena of subjective experience is.
The greater the experience the greater the memory the greater the observation. Observation is a temporal and Qntm event. Neurology is electrical. The observation is a state of electrical arrangement. The arrangements are recallable across time in entanglement in the way entanglement is observed in a simplified way across space. However, the greater the distance in space, time is found as a non factor in the entanglement. As our neurology is a continuous 4thD worldline of arrangements, it's a matter of connections to different states upon that chain. Think of a strainer sieve sifting through sand in which most sand uniformly fall in no particular pattern. However one strainer has a unique pattern upon which the sand falls and settles in a unique way. Those patterns are continuous across time as their deposits upon the beach are recognizable. However minute variations (the electrical arrangements marking an observation) of that pattern in time discern differences upon that trail, "recallable" by looking back upon our patterns.
"Understanding is outside of computation" - Sir Roger Penrose
A serious and responsible scientist for once !
I agree with Rudolph Tanzi.
I am interested how does memory works in death ?🤔 I wonder 🤔after all before this planet ever formed we were nothing 😐and when we die we will be nothing again😐 it’s very interesting it’s like how would we ever know if earth would ever form? We could have all ready Ben dead a long time ago 😐also why were we not any random animal why out of things why we are a human ? Not just a human but also a human in a specific point 😐it’s very strange 🤔
The guy is on the right track ..
Consciousness is part of each human body but , not attached.
Humans have a way to go before they grasp intelligence and the conscientious are non sensible qualities .
We dwell much too much on everything that exists must be of material matter.
It ain’t …
since we have the fossil records that show us how lifeforms evolved from simple to complex then how brains evolved I feel it’s very likely that consciousness appeared at some point in animals with extremely complex brains.
Then for the question of how the memories are stored there are artificial neurons that are inspired from nature and they can both store information and make computations at the same time so I think the real neurons could work similarly. Basically there is short term memory that works chemically and long term memory that is given by synapses configuration and strength. The synapses strength is equivalent to chemical activation for a short time like minutes. A simple neural network can be understood on how it works I mean something composed of like 20-30 neurons but if you go further and add many types of neurons it becomes impossible to predict what the network will do.
Naural network were tuned by evolution then the information for the initial configuration of the brain is stored in the dna, that includes instincts and possibly some memories that might have been injected into the dna during a traumatic intense experience, that’s speculation. but artificial networks can be tuned using techniques within minutes to do the task you want. real neurons work like individual processors at about 40Hz even more so our brain can have 80bilions processors whereas a normal computer can have 8 cores or more but still a much smaller number at 2Ghz
Great topic. As someone who has TBI the camera panning was so distracting.
The “sea of consciousness” seems like a more reasonable supposition for mental faculties than the brain? Uhh no, I think he has an alternative understanding of reasonable..
I agree, it also doesn't really address the "reasonableness" of existing theories of consciousness - not that they are complete - but for example consciousness as the emergent phenomena of an extremely complex system. That to *me* seems far more reasonable than conscious or memory as something exterior, which as the interviewer points out is vastly more difficult to prove/disprove. There's a lot going on in the brain that we don't understand and it might be more comfortable to point to an exterior explanation but its foolish to discount the idea that such a complex system might somehow arise consciousness. Either way he is correct - we don't know (yet)
Good guest, I’m always on exact same page as Robert when he’s questioning guests. Robert is a China expert I want to know his thoughts on Taiwan can he do a current events show as well?
So to answer the question : " how to remember things ? " the simplest answer : Repetition . And its because if memory is a kind of synapse, and they get stronger with repetition, the more they fire, the stronger and faster they get.
The Soul does seemingly retain a form of memory, not exactly how sense preception memory of our pyscho-physical experience and brain categorizes events here, rather more of a recollection sense, or coming to Know again itself, it's true form and Source, when no longer confined, limited, or affected by the sense world and sense preception objects and the memory from that. For Soul, the very Knowing, or Wisdom, the Soul itself found in reconcilation of the Intellegible realities is outside the brain and the physical plane, and is the Soul.
This video is closer to Truth.
You say "the soul" as if it's a truth. Before believing in anything you said, prove there's a soul.
@@afterlightstorytime that's cute.
Futile is it to teach one who hasn't desposed themselves to that of the learning.
I cannot prove your ignorance wrong as it is a state you unwillingly are in. Voluntary is it when you realize that endeavorment of learning is a choice, and if you seek it only then can teaching be of any benefit.
I see no benefit here in proving your own ignorance wrong tomyourself, as it would be more of an enquiry than to discuss the Truth of all matters.
@@S3RAVA3LM you can't prove my supposed ignorance, because you have no way to prove what you believe. You are the one making a claim, so you are the one who needs to provide evidence and proof. You can't, which is why you lash out in such an infantile way.
@@afterlightstorytime No, you are claiming a postulate to be true -- that which matter produces its own form, it's own beauty, it's own parts and composites as a whole, even that it produced itself, and is life itself someway somehow and even gives life to other objects and gives beings existence, yet there is no proof of this and your position is baloney for any starting point for enquiry.
You deny the Soul because you lack Reason to see; not because you actually ever had evidence to know it not true.
You're an atomists, a materialist. There is no reason why i should take part in an enquiry with a supercilious spurious insolent such as yourself. If you believe that I cannot prove my claim then that's your belief.
I never said I couldn't prove what I claim, rather you're not worth the effort, because you care more about your belief, then Reason. Thus it is tossing pearls to swine.
Thumb your self up all day. Your a Troll, 3 month old account, 2 comments here, and you're only intention is to obscure people from, Truth. And if people refrain from parting in your BS you are set to default to think they can't prove anything.
That's cute. You're a horrible person and bad for society.
You will be dealt with accordingly. You do not have a right in what you do.
It does not matter what you believe, or not. What matters is experience. Belief is is a mental concept. Reality is far from it. Santa Claus does not come even if you believe in him with all your heart. And also no formular of the universe will allow you to "know" reality since it is just a model. Knowledge comes outside of all formulas. I think, this is essentially what is stated here towards the end in other words, and by own experience, I agree.
If we can understand how memory is lost we can certainly know how memory is processed and stored.
obviously we can't. as we just don't know. its not that simple.
memory, as we experience it, is only associated with an organic life form... and as such, it's safe to relate it with the body from where it originates... there's also cases claiming out of body or telepathic experiences, either with different chemicals or NDEs, but how do you even approach such cases, when there's no possible way to study them...
There in lies the problem we cannot kill someone’s and bring them back to life to test if memory resides outside the brain.
@@kos-mos1127 I usually relate it to a broken vase, which will never be the same after one tries to fix it back in place... maybe one day a powerful AI will be able to put all the required pieces back together, until then I don't expect much progress in this subject...
If memory is in the brain then all it can be is a recall of a certain state of configurations of neurological patterns. So perhaps certain present moment stimuli triggers that same configuration of neurological patterns which causes memories To be super imposed on present day reality.
Memory is stored in the pattern of constant activity between neurons. Anyone trying to find “where” memory is stored is wrong in the asking of the question and will never find an answer.
A bit of knowledge that sealed the deal for me is that when a person b comes brain dead, they are actually dead. Brain dead means the state when there is no electrical activity in the brain. A coma is not brain dead. Someone can come back from a coma. Once electrical activity ceases in the brain, however, there has never been a case where a person has revived from that. Applying electrical stimulation at that point is useless. Losing the electrical activity in the brain causes the person to cease to exist.
This says to me that our memory, our behavior, who and what we are, all of this resides in the ongoing electrical activity in our brains. Our neurons are wired to hold this, morph it, groove with it. And so, the electrical activity and the neuronal structure combined are “where memory is stored.”
I don’t know of an experiment that proves this. It just makes intuitive sense.
Those our bases on observations rather than experimentation. Because of ethical there is a limit to what kind of experiments could be done when studying the human brain. Their was an experiment that showed memory in mice were stored in the electrical field of the brain.
You are merely guessing. People used to think that everything revolved around the earth and that the idea was intuitive. Actual scientific progress proved that idea incorrect. The truth is not always what seems to be intuitive.
@@mattcorregan4760 Yes, I am guessing. In scientific terms, it is called a hypothesis.
The speaker in the video is guessing that memories are not stored in the brain. My guess is more rational…
@@JesseHelton I agree that your hypothesis is more rational, but that is just my opinion. The problem is that we have no empirical data to demonstrate "where" memory is stored. "Where" is the physical mechanism that occurs in the brain's neuronal structure somehow, or how it accesses some other entity or substance. Those I think are the only two choices and we don't have the technology yet to determine which or to understand the mechanism. It seems more likely to be a physical mechanism but advances in science have frequently been surprising. There certainly could be more than we can presently detect. To me memory is as mystifying as consciousness.
@@mattcorregan4760 My main point is that I currently think that “where” is “everywhere in the brain in a constantly moving way”, so any hypotheses that start by attempting to pinpoint any location will fail.
As far finding the specific mechanisms to test, this requires, I think, either accurately replicating a biological brain or dissecting a living brain. Both would require crossing that ethical boundary, so I think we will not go there. I think this ethical boundary is actually innate to us, as a whole, so I think that even if a small, rare set of people did this, the results would be shunned by the rest of the world.
The current state of AI, which is generally called Machine Learning (ML) is built on top of neural networks, which are modeled after how neurons in brains work. The current state of many ML models is that we can get spectacular results out of them, but we cannot pinpoint “where” any particular functionality is located. (ML is being used in self-driving cars, AR, and fake virtual human creation). If any researchers want to continue the “where” line of questioning, they could focus on studying these ML models and be completely free of any ethical limitations.
In the book Hidden Spring, the author presents a theory that consciousness is comprised of feelings upon feelings that come from a plethora of Markov blankets that feed from one into another. Many ML models that I have seen can be viewed as a Markov blanket that could fit easily into a piece of human consciousness, so I think this theory has merit.
I think that what will be connected together from these various fields, the result will be that a given neuron or even a set of neurons might be found to be involved in many disparate behaviors, thought processes and memories. This is why I think the where question won’t lead us to proper understanding.
The brain does not think about how to digest the food.
The brain doesn't even think.
Ujjwal B / Yes, it does. All the bilogical bodies, including humans, are each a big complex brain structure.
In reality, all the phisical body is just a real extension of the brain ( like real "tactile" tentacles=real extensions, etc, of the brain ), evidently, arranged a bit more chaotically, but in fact it is all part of the same real "brain".
It is all in reality the brain structure and function with its extended additional acquired evolutionary parasitic "bacteria" and "viruses".
All as one structure that only appear as being like different structures!
@@mikel4879 no it's about human thought.
Ujjwal B / Yes, "thought".
What did I just talk about here? Something else?
What do you think the "thought" is? Some voodoo unicorn flying through the air like a fart?
The thought is created in the material brain structure by that material brain structure.
If you burn your finger, in that extension of the brain called finger it is created the nerve pain sensation and together with its father that sits in your skull decides what to do, what tentacle-extension-nerve and muscle to collaborate with in order to resolve the situation.
You didn't think that "thought, consciousness, feelings, sensations, emotions, etc", are supernatural phenomena, metaphysical BS, did you?😏
Do you think that you're smarter than your "finger"?🥴
I you will post more conversations with Dr. Tanzi.
"I don't know."
Interview over.
Oysters are one of the creatures that keep tabs on the moon, and the lunar cycle influences how widely they open their shells and they have a circadian rhythm .How do oysters know about that, is that a kind of subconsciousness although they don't even have a nervous system?Maybe nature on our planet has some kind of subconsciousness. Maybe this sea of consciousness is a field. Maybe memories somehow are kept on this field. But first we have to clearly know what consciousness is. For example sleep is defined as a state of unconsciousness. although our brain can produce icons, pictures.
I think memory isn't stored in the brain, but rather in time. See, every neural connection and conceptual event that occurs within our brains was once derived from real, tangible structures in the physical world. Our thoughts, memories and everything else that makes us us initially began to crystallize (after birth) when inputs from the external world started to be fed into our neuron sandbox through our biological sensors. The languages we understand, the things we see with our eyes, the delicious food we taste, all of these things were once physical forces in space in the form of acoustic vibrations, electromagnetic radiation, molecular shapes, etc. In other words, everything we know about ourselves and the world is literally based on the physical arrangement and structure of forces in space that we once interacted with.
According to the Block Universe Theory, time is a real thing. The past and future are solid physical structures in spacetime, and the present is everywhere all at once but particularly apparent to the physical "stuff" in each slice. If block universe is true, it may be that there's a temporal connection between all of these slices of spacetime and that our neurons are just access nodes to these structures. This would mean that our memories and concepts of the world are saved as structural models in spacetime, with our neuronal networks simply referencing them as "saved information" in its feedback loops.
Like the jellyfish moving by forming a torus of sea water, holding it and forming another to bounce and use enhanced ground effect, the being of a person might be the energy exchange (?) or usage by seeing, smelling etc using a bit of that thing's energy to form a torus or two and proceed that way. It uses what's there to stretch out in block space and access the memory there?
The ancient philosopher-scientists knew the limitations of the material brain. They had open minds unconstrained by agenda and so they were able to proceed wherever their (unfettered) intellect led them to--towards a "soul," a transcendental pure personality that is the fount of all consciousness and memory.
Sad we do not have many scientist like him.
It makes sense that we haven't solved how memory works, because we haven't solved what conscientiousness is
I think the question of "where memory is stored", may not be exactly correct one (if one means a specific location). Because we can't even answer this question for artificial deep learning systems. If one looks at a convolutional neural nets (CNN), used in vision systems, you have layers of matrixes, that store numbers, which by themselves, don't mean anything. The thing works together, as a whole. And when operating together, they are able to recognize different faces. This is one of the complaints about modern AI, the "interpretability" problem. And when something goes wrong, e.g., the problem of "bias", it's hard to debug.
The problem is not altogether intractable. There are clues. In the CNN, one can look at the different layers. One can see different layers pick up different features, different levels of abstraction, which in the final layer, allows it to make a call (with a certain probability). E.g., in recognizing a face, some layers pick up texture. Another certain shape motifs, like the curvature of an eye, a whole set of features that are built up compositionally. One can pick out a few artificial "neurons" near the final layer, that pulls the whole configuration together, and makes the call. Though it's not quite correct to say that's where the "memory" is stored there. It's stored in the whole system.
The same can be said about localization in the brain. I've heard of surgeons stimulating certain areas, and it would prompt certain memories in certain patients. It doesn't mean the memory is stored there. Dr. Tanzi would explain this as a "gateway" to a transcendental realm. But one can easily imagine a more naturalistic explanation. (BTW. This is not to say we know how the brain stores memories. The level of unknowns in neuroscience is even greater than machine learning. The brain is much harder to probe, than a machine.)
The other reason why one might suspect memory might be stored in the brain, might be false or inaccurate memories. E.g., can include inconsistent witness accounts in a crime scene. Or hypnosis, where one recalls memories, about child abuse. Our memories do not work like an iPhone camera. There's a good deal of evidence that "memory" involves some kind of synthesis, to create some kind of coherent narrative about the self, or how things are viewed in the world. So it maybe an amalgam of a lot of things, some of which maybe factually accurate, others not so much. This probably may correspond to the synaptic pruning and consolidation the brain. Though this is speculation.
What Dr. Tanzi proposes, might be something like the "Akashic records" in many spiritualist traditions. All of one's experiences, actually all spacetime events, is recorded, and stored somewhere, and can be replayed, with accuracy. A NDE life review, would be an example of this. This then raises a whole set of ontological issues.
Materialists had better hope (as in, the secular equivalent of pray) that the brain has some kind of (*extensive*) quantum computing capability, because that is the only thing that is going to save the idea of "storage" (whether it be alleged in "structures" or in "incredible complexity" (whatever that is supposed to mean).
IMO, memory consists of direct access to noumenal states, which is why there is no storage either possible or found. These states are probably not even being accessed in space-time, but are pulled into it by the retrieval process (and altered during that process). There is a reason why all diseases of memory are really displaying an access impairment and show versions of that characteristic.
to concise: triggering consciousness type one is voluntary action too.
There evidently exists the distict possibility that memory is not stored in the brain in the way we think of how data are filed and stored in a computer. In short, memory is not stored in the brain.
Where, if not in the brain?
If I lose my leg, I still have my memory, what if i lose my head?
@4:02 this is a typical case of deja vu = error in sensory data processing where current stimulus is incorrectly "pushed" into memory area so it gets mischaracterized as a memory of an event in the past
We all remember, or at least should, what we had for breakfast. It was only a few minutes/hours ago. Chances are the memory isn't in the brain. But, then, where?
I have watched a lot of this series of talks about consciousness and have reached the following conclusion. None of the scientists have a clue of what consciousness is, or where it resides. Perhaps we will never know, because if we discover the truth, we will lose it and disappear from this universe. Consciousness can only exist because it can't exist in the first place. So is the meaning of everything, just nothing.
Consciousness is not a thing so we can never say what it is. Consciousness is stream that deal with objects independent of itself. The ideas that there is no external world is self defeating.
@@kos-mos1127 you are entitled to your opinion.
@@roybrewer6583 I stated facts. Idealism taken to its extreme means by force of will we should be able to regenerate our head or recover from a fatal energy.
In reality we cannot do any of these we our limited by physical reality. We are limited by our physical limitations. We are limited by our environment.
Consciousness being fundamental means we are the environment.
No brain, no consciousness. Case closed. 😏.
@@kos-mos1127 you are entitled to your opinion.
Can you reference the paper on "fatal energy" that's a new one to me.
We have no idea what consciousness is, and that's a fact, lol.
It doesnt work, thats how it works.
Its easy or discover whats already there. Yes,it might take time but where and how will it be discover if it doesn't or never exist at all?
Is memory exist in a way humans understand it or it just the understanding of memory makes memory exist within or outside the brain?
Aren't wrinkles in the brain indicative of memory storage? Vivid dreams are not the same thing as memory. God speaking to you isn't a memory. I knew what my profession would be at age five because God told me. I knew I would be a technician at an airport but not an airplane mechanic. I just retired after working 30 years as an airline ground service technician. Why would I lie about it? Why would I lie about God speaking to me when He speaks to everyone?
A "Sea of Consciousness"? Why don't I have access to YOUR memories, or Joe's or Mary's? I'll just jump in my "think boat" and go looking for good memories. He was making sense util this idea.
Yep.
To have access to other ppl memories, You need to buy all-inclusive-premium-plus-pack-ticket for this cruise :)
If the access of memory is different than storage of memory; then maybe synapse accesses memories stored in quantum wave function?
possibly not the memories stored but the awareness object attached to the being of the person still there in symmetric time, so a memory is a matching back to that point in time, still there in symmetric time but the body moved on; if the awareness can be matched..it never changes in quality, only quantity it seems
There is a potential way to learn what is conciousness:
- Create a computer model of a neuron, and start the simulation
- Connect it to a biological brain, and let it train to adjust weights and become functional
- Now kill one neuron of the biological brain
- Repeat (no need to go one by one, that was just to illustrate the concept but it could be done by blocks, as long as they have enough time to train and adjust synapse weights )
- Now the question is, what happens when you kill the last neuron and even disconnect the computer from the body? is it still conscious?
excellent interview.. just like there's a cloud for computers, we may have a eternal cloud for consciousness or spirituality.
Easy To Say
""
When everything get's in the way
How to create our own position
In THIS WORLD
What a pity that the sound quality once more so bad is.
Be interesting to postulate how some pretty compelling reincarnation memories are getting transported into new born brains ?
We're on assignments.
I also wondered, Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation disturbs recall on synapse level, but is it also somehow possible to keep the synapse action intact but only interfere with the brain waves themselves (which are electromagnetic). This way we could test if qualia are chemical or electromagnetic
It is hard for me to believe qualia could be chemical because chemical reactions are discrete and local but the sensory field seems to unify a lot of disparate information. Electromagnetic (or at least some type of resonating field) seems like a better candidate to unify information.
I've wondered about all those beautiful days with family and friends, all the moments that I wish would last forever. Then, I thought, I bet that God is saving them for me/us. I know that He is. This was a fascinating interview. Thank you, CTT!
Believes certain GOD are living in heaven. However when YOU are living GOD with that discussion are so hilarious. Guys Notm show up honest concept concern conscieness. They are si ridiculus and hilarious.
@@maxwellsimoes238 God is not separate from us.
You do not know that God is you believe that God is there is a big difference.
Memory is stored in the Exclusion Zone, Masculine (-) Vacuum Energy in the Cell Water and Energy is information… Therefore, with sound logic and EVIDENCE from the laboratory, my Consciousness Theory of Memory proves true and is “Confirmed”… Radiant Energy…
@@kos-mos1127 There is only a big difference if you don't believe in the God of the Jews & Christians.
Science clearly proves the Universe & Life were UNNATURALLY made by a very powerful intelligence.
History has shown the God of the Jews & Christians is the intelligence that made everything ... & ... why?
You have free will ... to think, believe, say & do whatever you want ... with the sciences & religions.
Man has always known ... the Universe & Life have an UNNATURAL origin by a very powerful intelligence ... because we all know the oring of rules & Laws AND anything that has clear purpose, properties, design & FUNCTION.
Whether a headhunter from a tribe in the jungles of Papua New Guinea or a theoretical Physicist .. you know that everything in the Universe has clear purpose, form, design & function and that there are some sort of natural Laws that govern everything.
Atheism is also a religion, which simply replaced "the gods" with the theories, ideologies and secular beliefs of "the men."
Either all of the religions are wrong ... or ... there is one that has correctly identified the intelligence that made everything.
The four major religions are:
1. Christianity ( sect of Judaism)
2. Islam ( a perverse violent pagan cult that corrupted Christian teachings)
3. Hinduism
4. Humanism( worship of secular beliefs & theories of Man).
Remove Christianity from world History ... and the Human Race would now be extinct.
Why does the world have a 7 day week? Man had the "week" before God called Abraham to be the father of the Jews, and Moses wrote Genesis with the 6 Day creation & the 7th Day is to be for God.
The New Testament was written 1900 years ago and revealed the reason for the 6 day creation & the 7th is to be for God. One day is like 1000 years for God, and Jesus( The Son of God) will return for a 1000 year reign before Judgement Day ... but ... after Man has ruled the Earth for 6 x 1000 years.
Genesis was written 3400 years ago, and clearly explained why God created Man, the Fall of Man, and what God was going to do to save Man from his Just nature.
Man was originally created perfect with a body & soul .. with free will and the ability to pro-Create .. to live forever with God ... but only if Man obeyed once simple rule or Law. Do not eat from the tree of knowledge for if you do, will die.
The Universe we know today began with the Fall of Man.
The Jews reject Jesus as the Messiah(Savior) but believe they are living in end times when their Messiah will appear to save them from their enemies and bring everlasting peace. The current jewish year since the Fall of Man is ... 5 783.
So the Son of God returns for a 1000 year reign ... after Man has rule the Earth for 6 x 1000 years ... and the Jews are expecting their Messiah very soon.
There are only differences if you don't believe in the God of the Jews & Christians.
Christianity is the only religion that has correctly identified the intelligence that made everything ... & ... why?
And as foretold in the Bible of the Jews & Christians ... most will reject God ... to follow idols or ideologies of Man.
Everything in the Universe is a Function ... made by an intelligence ... for a reason.
God made Man for a reason, and is doing what only He can do, to save Man from His just nature to punish anybody who breaks His laws.
All Law has to be obeyed & enforced ... otherwise there will be chaos, disorder or dire consequences.
All Law ... provides structure, direction, ORDER, boundaries and ideal, repeatable, & predictable behavior or .. properties.
God is indeed perfect, pure, good, righteous, Loving, merciful, patient, kind ... and ... Just.
God knew if would take 7000 years ... for the last Human Being to be pro-Created by Man ... who would believe in God's free gift of Salvation. After the 7000 years of pro-Creation there will be no Human Beings what would ever believe in Jesus as Lord & Savior. This is why God created the 7 day week ... when he could have Created everything in a blink of an eye. God is continuously giving Man ... sign after sign ... of His existence and His Nature.
But Man has free will ... and an evil nature that is getting worse over time.
C'mon. Look at what the civilized, developed & technologically advance Russians are do to Ukraine. Again. Humanism is a religion where the Man worships the ideologies and secular beliefs of Man( an intelligence).
Only Christianity has got God ... correct. And the Bible constantly warns Man to to follow the idols & teachings of Man ... but to "Love God with all your mind, body & soul AND Love your neighbor as you love yourself."
What two great commandments does Islam, Hinduism, Atheism, Capitalism, Marxism, Darwinism etc offer Mankind ... which will make the World a better and happier place?
Science proves the Universe is a Function composed entirely of Functions made by an intelligence.
Christianity proves God the Father, Son & Holy Spirit is the intelligence( singular) that made everything & why?
Stop cancelling God ... to follow Man's ways.
Again. Remove Christianity from World History .. and the Human Race would now be extinct or a horrible world to live it.
Now here's a scientist that admits, WE DON'T KNOW. Well let's figure it out.
Memory is in The Waters!
Bigger the space, better memory.
Thinking is aiming.
With memory of past having to do with time, and if quantum wave function evolves over time (past, present and future); then could be memory stored in quantum wave function?
A dualist telling physicalists that they believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. Now that's a twist.
up until now, where did consciousness come from?
Is biological memory a QUANTUM HOLOGRAM? How do COLLECTIVE MEMORY and ARCHETYPES work?
What about people who have brain injuries and develope amnesia? Why can't they retrieve their memories?
We are conected to the cloud the all consciousness were there is no time
it is not out there in the sky ! there are only two types of consciousness: one generated by self concept "consciousness type one"
the other one is part of self concept "consciousness type two" all are in the brain, there is nothing in the sky !
how many time should I repeat that !
yeah today they got a new thing: voluntary action is what triggers consciousness type one (they can write more books now)
lucky ......
According to the TNGS, memory is a process of dynamic recategorization. It is a system process, not identifiable with any particular group of neurons or area in the brain.
It's becoming clear that with all the brain and consciousness theories out there, the proof will be in the pudding. By this I mean, can any particular theory be used to create a human adult level conscious machine. My bet is on the late Gerald Edelman's Extended Theory of Neuronal Group Selection. The lead group in robotics based on this theory is the Neurorobotics Lab at UC at Irvine. Dr. Edelman distinguished between primary consciousness, which came first in evolution, and that humans share with other conscious animals, and higher order consciousness, which came to only humans with the acquisition of language. A machine with primary consciousness will probably have to come first.
The thing I find special about the TNGS is the Darwin series of automata created at the Neurosciences Institute by Dr. Edelman and his colleagues in the 1990's and 2000's. These machines perform in the real world, not in a restricted simulated world, and display convincing physical behavior indicative of higher psychological functions necessary for consciousness, such as perceptual categorization, memory, and learning. They are based on realistic models of the parts of the biological brain that the theory claims subserve these functions. The extended TNGS allows for the emergence of consciousness based only on further evolutionary development of the brain areas responsible for these functions, in a parsimonious way. No other research I've encountered is anywhere near as convincing.
I post because on almost every video and article about the brain and consciousness that I encounter, the attitude seems to be that we still know next to nothing about how the brain and consciousness work; that there's lots of data but no unifying theory. I believe the extended TNGS is that theory. My motivation is to keep that theory in front of the public. And obviously, I consider it the route to a truly conscious machine, primary and higher-order.
My advice to people who want to create a conscious machine is to seriously ground themselves in the extended TNGS and the Darwin automata first, and proceed from there, by applying to Jeff Krichmar's lab at UC Irvine, possibly. Dr. Edelman's roadmap to a conscious machine is at arxiv.org/abs/2105.10461
How can memories be storaged out of the brain? we know everything fly's away or disolves if nothing holds it in a gravitational field, so why do some think of external consciousness and storage of thoughts? we should think of an infinite space in the brain as an infinite universe, it has storage out of our imagination. We know by now, that consciousness grows with us, so why are people still talking about flying consciousness that docks on human brains, if that was the case, when did each consciousness appear in the scene and how did it get in the brain with all the knowledge it brought from somewhere?
I think too many are confused and not understanding the meaning of consciousness and that it has to develope until a certain degree that overtakes an independent position for decision making out of the informations and experiences it gathered in its development.
Our anscestors died and took their consciousness with them, the only inherited informations of the past in form of body structures are in our genes. No flying consciousness of our anscestors interfering in any way.
Imaginations is to be understood, as a creative stage for concepts, and not for illusionary supernatural, appearances, spirits, souls, and fear.
@@abelincoln8885 we had this conversation already not long ago.
An intelligence would not waste time to punish his creation, to make rules and allow sins, to create a heaven and hell, allow wars and evil doings, this is just humans thoughts and imaginations, humans abuse each other, that doesn't fit to an all loving all mighty intelligence, no way would our world be like it is, if it was created by an intelligence.
@@abelincoln8885 you must admit it makes no sense. For a God with all the power of creating whatever he wants, it would be a reductionism to a level of primitive primates, and that is unacceptable even for intellectual developed humans.
We have the year 2022, no supernatural beings, spirits, ghosts, souls, have ever shown up or take active part on human life, its only in a disordered mind taking place, or under drug influences.
But believe whatever you want, you're free to do so I guess.
Memories are not stored in the brain because with NDEs and OBEs it seems that memory and cognition can occur independent of brain function...
We just don't know.
The interrupting, geez
Could it be that memory comes from the cognitive ability of the brain to process everything you have learned of the world and all the relationships? I can think of many reasons why this doesn't provide an answer but requires a nonmaterial property such as the mind. this then require belief beyond nature and it's rules
I see how frustrated Robert is while Rudolph is open to the possibility of memory being product of Consciousness. In some way Robert is very biased with the physical aspect of reality and feels everything is a product of material. I followed lot of his videos on this topic but he unwillingly to even consider the possibility of Anything which is not physical. :)
Apparently, as a person who has been dealing with this problem for years, including professionally, he has reasons for this.
His approach is quite obvious to me.
So you ask a question you know cannot be answered at this time! Very helpful, at least monetarily, for you, Kuhn.
There's NOTHING outside the brain
we have nothing to share except being imprisoned on the same planet "the planet of the apes"..
We drink the water and pass it around?
We are finding out that we cannot see 95% of material around us… dark matter… multiple realities… why not!
If he knows how memory works we could have pills to improve it.
And I don't know is answer too👍.
I have those lucid dreams. I wake in the night sleep again and dream continues which it was. Like pause still and then play button again!? Not often but couple of times in year.
very many