LINKS for info & purchasing: Ampace JP40 US distributor: 18650-21700.com/ Alibaba #1: m.alibaba.com/x/Axl4Fb?ck=pdp Alibaba #2: x.alibaba.com/Axl4GZ?ck=minisite Alibaba #3: x.alibaba.com/Axl4gp?ck=minisite Alibaba #4: x.alibaba.com/Axl4hD?ck=minisite EVE 40PL US distributor: www.18650batterystore.com/products/eve-40pl-21700-4000mah-70a-battery? Alibaba #3: x.alibaba.com/Axl4gp?ck=minisite Alibaba #4: m.alibaba.com/x/Axl5Lf?ck=pdp Aliexpress www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007356128902.html -------------------- Tabless articles: lib.energy/tabless-cells www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352152X23033406 medium.com/@Apoorv_Shaligram/how-does-teslas-tabless-cell-design-benefit-them-c42729286fe6 batteryline.com/extreme-lithium-battery-manufacturing/tabless-battery-and-its-influence-in-manufacturing/ www.allaboutcircuits.com/news/just-how-much-breakthrough-teslas-tabless-battery-cell/ finance.yahoo.com/news/ampace-unveils-jumbo-power-series-115400972.html?guccounter=1 [Note: I didn't mention in the video, but this article mentions that Ampace is a joint venture with CATL, one of the most established Chinese battery manufacturers. This gives me more confidence in their build quality and longevity.] Tabless videos: ua-cam.com/video/Eai6h0g0-Cg/v-deo.htmlsi=2SUv6Y0p75s8i6UX (Ampace video) ua-cam.com/video/5M2DRGyOGYA/v-deo.htmlsi=Nu3dRTipAfqn0t37 ua-cam.com/video/hbPKE62aM0U/v-deo.htmlsi=mHa5g__vQcywSjqw ua-cam.com/video/CuforHuchTg/v-deo.htmlsi=_7Cv6SA7jbVIqqNo ua-cam.com/video/IzBL8uy_pvo/v-deo.htmlsi=7oynEkDvVY6b3kcP Mooch's testing: www.e-cigarette-forum.com/threads/bench-test-results-eve-40pl-70a-4000mah-21700.987035/ www.e-cigarette-forum.com/threads/bench-test-results-lt-22710a-ampace-jp40-60a-4000mah-21700.986585/ Batemo cell models: www.batemo.com/products/batemo-cell-explorer/ampace-21700a/ www.batemo.com/products/batemo-cell-explorer/eve-energy-inr21700-40pl/
1:58 You shouldn't be afraid to have battery engineers criticize your video, you should be proud of them watching your videos and caring enough to comment!
Hey, my other comment isn’t here anymore! It was just a thank you for your kind words about my testing and for using some of my results to compare with yours! Love seeing good testing being done and thank you for this video.
Austin with 18650-21700 here, thanks for the shout-out! We can and will beat the price of any other supplier found to be selling authentic JP40 cells. International pricing is calculated per country, my team member Jane works with me to ship directly from china for international orders.
Just got my order! Only 2 week shipping and came with free storage cases. Thanks Austin, these cells rock! Would love to leave a positive review, but couldn't find a review area on your site.
The stickers are multiple purpose, we use them to indicate if the cell has been run significantly over 80 deg C. They will turn black if you get them too hot.
This is dope. These voltage drop tests at different Amps have given me a baseline idea of my pack's performance once I put it in my car and the amount of power I should be expecting from it.
Thanks for that! Nice to hear about! :) I do not know if I would like to use them for any current project, but maybe in the future when extreme current is needed.
Great Video, i wanted to inform you that temperature play a very big part in Voltage drops (higher temps mean less voltage drops at the beginning) this is we 40PL is at 3.99V and the molicel is at 4.03V ( molicel start at 30+°C. ). Good work you doing, you arent a professional but the logic is there. The testing muste be at the SAME temperature! And one last problem, when you measure IR you need to clean very well the contact pads, it there is some oil... Or other staff (corrosion, water, ....) it can ad up to 5 or even 10 milliohm... That's why you get higher numbre..
Picked up a few for a FPV wing pack that pulls up to 60 amps in short bursts when you want to get your heartrate up. Fantastic job testing man, these seem like a nice slightly higher output cell vs the p45b I currently use. I could go LiPo, but the reduced fire risk and capacity is worth it.
@@CoolWatts Got it wired up. 4S1P in a AtomRC Dolphin with an 2806.5 motor. These cells are awesome! They have great punch comparable to a Lipo and don't sag as hard towards the 3.4-3v. If you like going fast, FPV wings are super fun and cost effective. Happy to share specs if you ever want to give it a go.
Looks like your initial Ir results are reasonable based on some quick math around the 60A test. The P45B heats up 26C in 1 minute of testing with a datasheet 15mR of Ir. At 60A that's about 54W of Ir dissipation. If we assume an identical *C/W of temperature increase for the JP40 (0.48*C/W), that gives us about 36.8W of Ir dissipation. At 60A, 36.8W of resistive dissipation equates to... 10.2mR. Its not a perfect comparison, but it should work as a good sanity check for your testing.
The exterior temp of the molicel is going to lag its internal compared to tabless. Id like to see the temp of the 45b after 60amp say 5 mins after test let the heat soak out, thanks for the testing and showing me a new cell to buy 😊
Just for sharing if anyone is interested: Tests of CoolWatts: P45B after 3sec is 3,53V/cell and at 1 min 3,39V @39,0°C, 2 min 3,30V @51,8°C BAK after 3sec is >3,65V/cell and at 1 min 3,48V @36,1°C, 2 min 3,41V @52,4°C JP40 after 5sec is >3,68V/cell and at 1 min 3,56V @36,0°C, 2 min 3,45V @44,2°C (starting at 4,19V) Test of DIY 500AMP EVE PL 33A 3,82V/cell, after 20s and then 40A 3,57V/cell, at 1 min 3,52V@30,8°C, 2 min ca. 3,41V @40,0°C (but what´s annoying is voltage starting at 4,27V on the tester..) JP40 33A 3,74V/cell, after 20s and then 40A 3,60V/cell, at 1 min XX V@29,7°C, 2 min ca. 3,47V @37,5°C (starting at 4,23V) Tabless running surely much colder! JP40 much colder, on performance a bit better than EVE and BAK
When you talk about needing a bms to support those amps I had an idea. We already use controllers where we can set discharge amps, charge amps, voltage limits, etc. We just need a controller that can communicate with a with a bms, so the controller can also shut down if the bms decides something critical like temps. If this were the case we could bypass the discharge, and thus use a smaller bms, and then let the controller handle things incase temps or voltage etc get to the point where it has to intervene. Only thing to really worry about then would be short circuit protection, could be handled with a fuse like chi supplies for their bypassed batteries. Also wanted to ask when you are building up the new bike and if you also are going to showcase the build process again? Curious what parts you are thinking about going with controller and motor wise. Honestly with the Altis Sigma about to come out and EBMX stating they are working on a higher voltage controller I'm thinking the V3 controller could be right around the corner especially with us getting close to the 1 year mark on the v2. If we do a higher voltage battery will be a great thing to build
Yes the controller intelligently communicating with the BMS would be really cool. Doing a short video of the new build, it's a supermoto bike for street use with dual belts. Has a KO Big Block and X9 V2. Pack will be 22S P45B. But I'm thinking about getting the Ampace JP40s to build a more powerful pack for the original dirt build. Edit - forgot to mention - there will be both a new version of the X9, and a larger controller, coming out sometime soon. Looking forward to seeing what they can do.
@@CoolWatts Either that or have a contactor that connects to the bms like in EV's, that way we can place it somewhere away from the battery where there's more room. Meaning the battery will not have to look like a sky scraper. Really hope controller to bms communication is something ebmx implements though. I say make it as long as you can, I enjoy watching how much detail you put in. And reason you choose the Ko over the xlb-60, from what I remember the ebmx peaked higher power. And then of course the new sotion and tm40 motor, and qs165 50H. Was kind of hoping to see you on one of those considering you seemed to be aiming for an insane amount of power. If range isn't a concern those JP40's do look good, but if the motor cannot max out the controller would the less IR really provide much more power vs 45B? Curious about this new X9 you speak of, do you know any of the spec's yourself, hopefully ebmx doesn't keep us in the dark for too long. I do want to ask do you know if possibly know what the largest diameter motor can fit inside the surron. I was speaking to Jared and Ebmx and he let me know the Eride actually could fit a 70mm stator (and griftshift somehow put a xlb-80 in one) so even the xlb60 leaves spare room. Do you know if the surron is the same way, that way we could see ebmx come out with an even more powerful motor in the future?
MAXNGO makes a CHARGE ONLY BMS that is rated to 12a charge, and it communicates with VESC controller to give discharge protection. I know enough about VESC yet to know if this allows the VESC to throttle down as needed to prevent the lowest brick from going below UnitLVP or if it’s just a simple transfer of function and just shuts down the controller. But these BMS are very compact since the Mosfets are only for 12a in one direction.
@@CoolWatts Hey I just found out about the bak inr2170 45d, tabless and 4.5ah, p45b killer?!? I see NKON has them for a pretty good price as well, do you plan to test?
Good information.... but in device when batteryes are discharged the actual measurement should be Constant Power (W) not Constant Current (A), anomaly for some is that when batteries gets empty the power that motors (example) still needs same power to do same work - soo the ampeage goes up when batteres are going empty
That's great they can output such high current but how do you connect the battery in such a way to enable that much current without getting the wires/strips hot?
I mentioned that in the power example section. Everything has to be upgraded. Working with my manufacturer to see if we can do bus bars capable of 400A continuous 700A peak.
cant seem to find any info on the new samsung 45t that discharges with 50A. seems a bit high for a regular cell, as less energy dense cells seems to discharge slower (35a for both 30 and 40t) according to their specs. can it be that samsung sdi has joined the tabless domain?
I’ve bought a couple of eve cells to try in one of my 1/10 rc race cars. Not built them into a pack yet. Shame the voltage is .1 lower per cell than the pouch cells we normally use.
Really appreciate the video but not sure what you are talking about with the 40PL having disappointing performance? Quite a sweeping statement that is at odds with the data from mooch.. apart from that we now know the cycle life to be excellent. Some questions hanging over the ampace cells with a large loss when stored. Could screw up a whole pack if multiple cells did that
I'm building a race bike max power around 33kw projected average consumption around 23-24kw. My darling used to be the moli 50 but after seeing your test there aint no way imma buy that. I'm strictly interested in tabless from now on. My problem is that these 4000 cells are too low capacity and i totally dont need this good IR for it's not astronomical power i'm thinking of and there will be between 500-600 cells init. The pl40 and ampace is just too good IR-wise and too bad capactiywise for my purposes. Something around the 5000mah catergory would be ideal from the tabless design but it dont exist. TBH i'm even thinking of the 58e EVE they say it's 3C continuous which is fine by me 500-600 cells at 3C seems very doable considering that i'll also have convection cooling...will you test the 58? I'd be very interested in that...it seems that these 4000mah cells are rather for drag races...not for regular EVs even if it's a racing EV
@@dcktater7847 well the P45B had almost the same v drop performance as the 50, it's the sweet spot for price/ performance now. If you have space to add 1-2 more in parallel, maybe do that with the Ampace. I bought 200 P45B about 4 months ago for my next winter Surron build (street, dual belt). Think I'm gonna keep them for that build, but maybe do a new pack with the Ampace for my higher powered dirt bike.
@@CoolWatts well if i build a 560 cell pack from the ampace that's still just 8kwh which isnt all that much...these 4000 cells are rather for very high power superbikes or cordless wrenches and stuff...it's just not ideal if you cant utilize their max power capability I'm also building a stark killer dirtbike but even in that the ampace is totally suboptimal...like what's the average consumption of a dirtbike under race conditions? Some measily 6kw continuous or something...that dont require an extremely high drain pack rather one with higher capacity...these cells are very supercapacitor-like at this point but you need capacity too not just insane amps...
Hiya, cool video, is 2.5v industry standard for 18650s too? And what should I capacity test recycled 18650s down to 2.5v or your 2.8v?. I've been using 3.0v cut off. cheers
@@paulr3556 thanks, as I understand, all manufacturers use 2.5 for their advertised specs. But of course that, or 2.8, isn't very good for the cells. I also use 3.0 as cutoff in all my battery packs.
@@CoolWatts Okay, seems like if you use the car fuel tank analogy, it's like buying a car with and advertised 60L tank by manufacturer, but you can only fit 50L. Haha. I know it's probably like 58L in reality, but you get what I'm saying. Manufacturers specs don't match real world use specs. 🤷
I would like to see puncture test of tabless battery compared to normal one. I assume those big power no. are double edge sword... if you know what I mean.
If you test for IR immediately after pulling a huge current, the voltage begins to slowly rise back up again in the cell and this is what's probably messing with your IR measurements
All IR tests I was doing "cold", after overnight charging. It was only after the results were not what I was expecting did I try at different temps, SOC, and after a load. But never did IR test immediately after load testing.
Unfortunately I dont have them, I just saw them available for buy on nkon, but no test anywhere. For now that is the only low IR cells available tu buy in EU. I have p42a and considering switching in near future.
Familiarize yourself with this metric for measuring power of a cell which is the "C" rating of a cell, which means amp hour output relation to how many amps? e.g. a 10 amp hour cell that is 1 C = 10 amps of power, while a 10C cell outputs 100 amps of power.
Hey man i would love you to test FARASIS P73 and FARASIS P76 they're a NCM lipo battery with great performance I bought an electric dirt bike from alibaba that is shipped with it
@@CoolWatts Cool indeed. But I think I will just sit back and see if people have good results long terms, it's easier to manufacture but it's still new tech.
I think you have to be careful in comparing the JP40 and 40PL to the 50B. The 50B has 25% more energy density so it would consequently have a higher DCIR and consequently voltage sag. The fact that the 50B can provide 50A continuous and 265Wh/kg is super impressive.
@@calebgrefe8922 I don't think so, because they all have an engraved piral on the center of the negative terminal which indicates a "no welding zone" that should not be heated up.
LINKS for info & purchasing:
Ampace JP40
US distributor:
18650-21700.com/
Alibaba #1:
m.alibaba.com/x/Axl4Fb?ck=pdp
Alibaba #2:
x.alibaba.com/Axl4GZ?ck=minisite
Alibaba #3:
x.alibaba.com/Axl4gp?ck=minisite
Alibaba #4:
x.alibaba.com/Axl4hD?ck=minisite
EVE 40PL
US distributor:
www.18650batterystore.com/products/eve-40pl-21700-4000mah-70a-battery?
Alibaba #3:
x.alibaba.com/Axl4gp?ck=minisite
Alibaba #4:
m.alibaba.com/x/Axl5Lf?ck=pdp
Aliexpress
www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007356128902.html
--------------------
Tabless articles:
lib.energy/tabless-cells
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352152X23033406
medium.com/@Apoorv_Shaligram/how-does-teslas-tabless-cell-design-benefit-them-c42729286fe6
batteryline.com/extreme-lithium-battery-manufacturing/tabless-battery-and-its-influence-in-manufacturing/
www.allaboutcircuits.com/news/just-how-much-breakthrough-teslas-tabless-battery-cell/
finance.yahoo.com/news/ampace-unveils-jumbo-power-series-115400972.html?guccounter=1
[Note: I didn't mention in the video, but this article mentions that Ampace is a joint venture with CATL, one of the most established Chinese battery manufacturers. This gives me more confidence in their build quality and longevity.]
Tabless videos:
ua-cam.com/video/Eai6h0g0-Cg/v-deo.htmlsi=2SUv6Y0p75s8i6UX
(Ampace video)
ua-cam.com/video/5M2DRGyOGYA/v-deo.htmlsi=Nu3dRTipAfqn0t37
ua-cam.com/video/hbPKE62aM0U/v-deo.htmlsi=mHa5g__vQcywSjqw
ua-cam.com/video/CuforHuchTg/v-deo.htmlsi=_7Cv6SA7jbVIqqNo
ua-cam.com/video/IzBL8uy_pvo/v-deo.htmlsi=7oynEkDvVY6b3kcP
Mooch's testing:
www.e-cigarette-forum.com/threads/bench-test-results-eve-40pl-70a-4000mah-21700.987035/
www.e-cigarette-forum.com/threads/bench-test-results-lt-22710a-ampace-jp40-60a-4000mah-21700.986585/
Batemo cell models:
www.batemo.com/products/batemo-cell-explorer/ampace-21700a/
www.batemo.com/products/batemo-cell-explorer/eve-energy-inr21700-40pl/
1:58 You shouldn't be afraid to have battery engineers criticize your video, you should be proud of them watching your videos and caring enough to comment!
Hey, my other comment isn’t here anymore!
It was just a thank you for your kind words about my testing and for using some of my results to compare with yours! Love seeing good testing being done and thank you for this video.
You are the GOAT of battery testing! Honored to have you comment here. Thanks so much for your work, you've helped so many people, including me.
Austin with 18650-21700 here, thanks for the shout-out!
We can and will beat the price of any other supplier found to be selling authentic JP40 cells.
International pricing is calculated per country, my team member Jane works with me to ship directly from china for international orders.
Just ordered 63 cells to test on a Shark pack build. Thank you for bringing these to us, Austin !!
Just put in an order, excited to get them into my FPV wing!
Do you ship to South Africa
Would be sick if u guys started to carry 14500
Just got my order! Only 2 week shipping and came with free storage cases. Thanks Austin, these cells rock! Would love to leave a positive review, but couldn't find a review area on your site.
The stickers are multiple purpose, we use them to indicate if the cell has been run significantly over 80 deg C. They will turn black if you get them too hot.
I see, personally I'd prefer them without.
So simple in principle. Surprising it has taken this long.
Great video! That spiral is super helpful, I’m glad they added that.
This is dope. These voltage drop tests at different Amps have given me a baseline idea of my pack's performance once I put it in my car and the amount of power I should be expecting from it.
@@EugeneWangombe thanks! Yeah I really wanted to know these results for my own pack builds, glad the info can help others.
THIS is unprecedented. tabless technology is huge we will achieve electrification
@@Solid_Snake99 agreed, it's a huge breakthrough in performance.
Thanks for calculating the realistic power, I hate having to explain to people that you can't use 84v when calculating power for 72v battery packs.
Yeah that’s like only the first 5 sec lol
@@appelmelk5664 it’s actually never 84v because as soon as you draw any current the voltage will drop.
Thanks for that! Nice to hear about! :)
I do not know if I would like to use them for any current project, but maybe in the future when extreme current is needed.
Great Video, i wanted to inform you that temperature play a very big part in Voltage drops (higher temps mean less voltage drops at the beginning) this is we 40PL is at 3.99V and the molicel is at 4.03V ( molicel start at 30+°C. ).
Good work you doing, you arent a professional but the logic is there. The testing muste be at the SAME temperature! And one last problem, when you measure IR you need to clean very well the contact pads, it there is some oil... Or other staff (corrosion, water, ....) it can ad up to 5 or even 10 milliohm... That's why you get higher numbre..
Great job bid dawg
Picked up a few for a FPV wing pack that pulls up to 60 amps in short bursts when you want to get your heartrate up. Fantastic job testing man, these seem like a nice slightly higher output cell vs the p45b I currently use. I could go LiPo, but the reduced fire risk and capacity is worth it.
Cool, thanks!
@@CoolWatts Got it wired up. 4S1P in a AtomRC Dolphin with an 2806.5 motor. These cells are awesome! They have great punch comparable to a Lipo and don't sag as hard towards the 3.4-3v. If you like going fast, FPV wings are super fun and cost effective. Happy to share specs if you ever want to give it a go.
Looks like your initial Ir results are reasonable based on some quick math around the 60A test. The P45B heats up 26C in 1 minute of testing with a datasheet 15mR of Ir. At 60A that's about 54W of Ir dissipation. If we assume an identical *C/W of temperature increase for the JP40 (0.48*C/W), that gives us about 36.8W of Ir dissipation. At 60A, 36.8W of resistive dissipation equates to... 10.2mR. Its not a perfect comparison, but it should work as a good sanity check for your testing.
I downloaded this video and have watched it 3x already, just to make sure Im not missing anything.
@@cyumadbrosummit3534 awesome! Thanks.
The exterior temp of the molicel is going to lag its internal compared to tabless. Id like to see the temp of the 45b after 60amp say 5 mins after test let the heat soak out, thanks for the testing and showing me a new cell to buy 😊
Just for sharing if anyone is interested:
Tests of CoolWatts:
P45B after 3sec is 3,53V/cell and at 1 min 3,39V @39,0°C, 2 min 3,30V @51,8°C
BAK after 3sec is >3,65V/cell and at 1 min 3,48V @36,1°C, 2 min 3,41V @52,4°C
JP40 after 5sec is >3,68V/cell and at 1 min 3,56V @36,0°C, 2 min 3,45V @44,2°C (starting at 4,19V)
Test of DIY 500AMP
EVE PL 33A 3,82V/cell, after 20s and then 40A 3,57V/cell, at 1 min 3,52V@30,8°C, 2 min ca. 3,41V @40,0°C
(but what´s annoying is voltage starting at 4,27V on the tester..)
JP40 33A 3,74V/cell, after 20s and then 40A 3,60V/cell, at 1 min XX V@29,7°C, 2 min ca. 3,47V @37,5°C
(starting at 4,23V)
Tabless running surely much colder! JP40 much colder, on performance a bit better than EVE and BAK
Fantastic 👍
Glad you liked it!
Make a long version!! 😁👍
When you talk about needing a bms to support those amps I had an idea. We already use controllers where we can set discharge amps, charge amps, voltage limits, etc. We just need a controller that can communicate with a with a bms, so the controller can also shut down if the bms decides something critical like temps. If this were the case we could bypass the discharge, and thus use a smaller bms, and then let the controller handle things incase temps or voltage etc get to the point where it has to intervene. Only thing to really worry about then would be short circuit protection, could be handled with a fuse like chi supplies for their bypassed batteries.
Also wanted to ask when you are building up the new bike and if you also are going to showcase the build process again? Curious what parts you are thinking about going with controller and motor wise. Honestly with the Altis Sigma about to come out and EBMX stating they are working on a higher voltage controller I'm thinking the V3 controller could be right around the corner especially with us getting close to the 1 year mark on the v2. If we do a higher voltage battery will be a great thing to build
Yes the controller intelligently communicating with the BMS would be really cool.
Doing a short video of the new build, it's a supermoto bike for street use with dual belts. Has a KO Big Block and X9 V2. Pack will be 22S P45B.
But I'm thinking about getting the Ampace JP40s to build a more powerful pack for the original dirt build.
Edit - forgot to mention - there will be both a new version of the X9, and a larger controller, coming out sometime soon. Looking forward to seeing what they can do.
@@CoolWatts Either that or have a contactor that connects to the bms like in EV's, that way we can place it somewhere away from the battery where there's more room. Meaning the battery will not have to look like a sky scraper. Really hope controller to bms communication is something ebmx implements though.
I say make it as long as you can, I enjoy watching how much detail you put in. And reason you choose the Ko over the xlb-60, from what I remember the ebmx peaked higher power. And then of course the new sotion and tm40 motor, and qs165 50H. Was kind of hoping to see you on one of those considering you seemed to be aiming for an insane amount of power. If range isn't a concern those JP40's do look good, but if the motor cannot max out the controller would the less IR really provide much more power vs 45B?
Curious about this new X9 you speak of, do you know any of the spec's yourself, hopefully ebmx doesn't keep us in the dark for too long. I do want to ask do you know if possibly know what the largest diameter motor can fit inside the surron. I was speaking to Jared and Ebmx and he let me know the Eride actually could fit a 70mm stator (and griftshift somehow put a xlb-80 in one) so even the xlb60 leaves spare room. Do you know if the surron is the same way, that way we could see ebmx come out with an even more powerful motor in the future?
MAXNGO makes a CHARGE ONLY BMS that is rated to 12a charge, and it communicates with VESC controller to give discharge protection.
I know enough about VESC yet to know if this allows the VESC to throttle down as needed to prevent the lowest brick from going below UnitLVP or if it’s just a simple transfer of function and just shuts down the controller.
But these BMS are very compact since the Mosfets are only for 12a in one direction.
@@CoolWatts Hey I just found out about the bak inr2170 45d, tabless and 4.5ah, p45b killer?!? I see NKON has them for a pretty good price as well, do you plan to test?
Murata has a tabless 21700 us21700 vx40
Papers and videos are missing. According to 2:32 you did promise to link them in the description.
@@womacko hi, look in the pinned comment, I put all the links in there.
@@CoolWatts OH my bad! :)
Good information.... but in device when batteryes are discharged the actual measurement should be Constant Power (W) not Constant Current (A), anomaly for some is that when batteries gets empty the power that motors (example) still needs same power to do same work - soo the ampeage goes up when batteres are going empty
That's great they can output such high current but how do you connect the battery in such a way to enable that much current without getting the wires/strips hot?
I mentioned that in the power example section. Everything has to be upgraded. Working with my manufacturer to see if we can do bus bars capable of 400A continuous 700A peak.
cant seem to find any info on the new samsung 45t that discharges with 50A. seems a bit high for a regular cell, as less energy dense cells seems to discharge slower (35a for both 30 and 40t) according to their specs. can it be that samsung sdi has joined the tabless domain?
@@leonvanengelen1824 others asked exactly this. I have them coming, will see how they perform.
@CoolWatts thanks do much! Awesome!
The spiral is laser welding that creates a lower resistance connection to the tabs underneath.
Thanks. In tabless, they're called flags, yes? As I understood, the Ampace do not have flags.
I’ve bought a couple of eve cells to try in one of my 1/10 rc race cars. Not built them into a pack yet. Shame the voltage is .1 lower per cell than the pouch cells we normally use.
The concept of tabless lithium cells was first patented by Tesla in 2019.
Really appreciate the video but not sure what you are talking about with the 40PL having disappointing performance? Quite a sweeping statement that is at odds with the data from mooch.. apart from that we now know the cycle life to be excellent. Some questions hanging over the ampace cells with a large loss when stored. Could screw up a whole pack if multiple cells did that
You apparently didn't listen to exactly what I said in the conclusion.
I'm building a race bike max power around 33kw projected average consumption around 23-24kw. My darling used to be the moli 50 but after seeing your test there aint no way imma buy that. I'm strictly interested in tabless from now on. My problem is that these 4000 cells are too low capacity and i totally dont need this good IR for it's not astronomical power i'm thinking of and there will be between 500-600 cells init. The pl40 and ampace is just too good IR-wise and too bad capactiywise for my purposes. Something around the 5000mah catergory would be ideal from the tabless design but it dont exist. TBH i'm even thinking of the 58e EVE they say it's 3C continuous which is fine by me 500-600 cells at 3C seems very doable considering that i'll also have convection cooling...will you test the 58? I'd be very interested in that...it seems that these 4000mah cells are rather for drag races...not for regular EVs even if it's a racing EV
@@dcktater7847 well the P45B had almost the same v drop performance as the 50, it's the sweet spot for price/ performance now. If you have space to add 1-2 more in parallel, maybe do that with the Ampace.
I bought 200 P45B about 4 months ago for my next winter Surron build (street, dual belt). Think I'm gonna keep them for that build, but maybe do a new pack with the Ampace for my higher powered dirt bike.
@@CoolWatts well if i build a 560 cell pack from the ampace that's still just 8kwh which isnt all that much...these 4000 cells are rather for very high power superbikes or cordless wrenches and stuff...it's just not ideal if you cant utilize their max power capability
I'm also building a stark killer dirtbike but even in that the ampace is totally suboptimal...like what's the average consumption of a dirtbike under race conditions? Some measily 6kw continuous or something...that dont require an extremely high drain pack rather one with higher capacity...these cells are very supercapacitor-like at this point but you need capacity too not just insane amps...
Hiya, cool video, is 2.5v industry standard for 18650s too? And what should I capacity test recycled 18650s down to 2.5v or your 2.8v?. I've been using 3.0v cut off. cheers
@@paulr3556 thanks, as I understand, all manufacturers use 2.5 for their advertised specs. But of course that, or 2.8, isn't very good for the cells. I also use 3.0 as cutoff in all my battery packs.
@@CoolWatts Okay, seems like if you use the car fuel tank analogy, it's like buying a car with and advertised 60L tank by manufacturer, but you can only fit 50L. Haha.
I know it's probably like 58L in reality, but you get what I'm saying.
Manufacturers specs don't match real world use specs. 🤷
@@CoolWatts These are next level batteries, thought 45A continuous was good from normal 21700s.
@@paulr3556 very true!
I would like to see puncture test of tabless battery compared to normal one.
I assume those big power no. are double edge sword... if you know what I mean.
If you test for IR immediately after pulling a huge current, the voltage begins to slowly rise back up again in the cell and this is what's probably messing with your IR measurements
All IR tests I was doing "cold", after overnight charging. It was only after the results were not what I was expecting did I try at different temps, SOC, and after a load. But never did IR test immediately after load testing.
Any interest in testing BAK 60A from NKON? Apparently tabless also.
@@berislavtopol1404 send me some, sure.
Unfortunately I dont have them, I just saw them available for buy on nkon, but no test anywhere. For now that is the only low IR cells available tu buy in EU. I have p42a and considering switching in near future.
Not to mention they are dirt cheap!
Familiarize yourself with this metric for measuring power of a cell which is the "C" rating of a cell, which means amp hour output relation to how many amps? e.g. a 10 amp hour cell that is 1 C = 10 amps of power, while a 10C cell outputs 100 amps of power.
@@markyormark7747 Yes, I'm familiar. What's incredible is the Ampace are rated at 11C continuous, 35C peak. Just crazy numbers.
Where did you get sample for P50B?
Hey man i would love you to test FARASIS P73 and FARASIS P76 they're a NCM lipo battery with great performance I bought an electric dirt bike from alibaba that is shipped with it
Which bike is this?
Had no idea the internal tab is such a bottleneck.
Now I can make small esk8 with 1P of these, cool.
@@Arek_R. I have two Evolve Hadeans. Imagine a 12S4P pack with the Ampace! 250A+ / 10kW+ on an e-skate!!!
@@CoolWatts Cool indeed.
But I think I will just sit back and see if people have good results long terms, it's easier to manufacture but it's still new tech.
I think you have to be careful in comparing the JP40 and 40PL to the 50B. The 50B has 25% more energy density so it would consequently have a higher DCIR and consequently voltage sag. The fact that the 50B can provide 50A continuous and 265Wh/kg is super impressive.
So no chance of being able to solder tabless cells?
@@calebgrefe8922 I don't think so, because they all have an engraved piral on the center of the negative terminal which indicates a "no welding zone" that should not be heated up.
Ace
Thank allot bro for the video!!!🙏🙏
Better than porn.....😅😅
BatteryHub 😅
@@CoolWattsfrom where i can buy Ambase JP40 for Europe, Greece..?🤔
@@Antony--DIY see my pinned comment for links, either 18650-21700 or the Alibaba sellers.
2:17 long. I thought ypu said this would be short
@@BramBiesiekierski there's always TikTok