Speaking about early aggression, I have another superstition. If you don´t let elite A.I. to scout that you are droning hard, it will not attack you too early. In other words, it is enough to put a queen or a couple of zerglings on the entrance to your base and make them autoattack any scouts. Another A.I. abuse I often use is juking between lowground and highground with mutas. If you keep attacking A.I. base and workers, it will stay at base forever and even retreat from a long distance unless its army is already engaged in a battle. And you already know the key to the victory, it is broodlords!
@@momom6197 At a certain point it doesent matter how many Ais there would be if the chocke point is just a couple of feet wide. The game would just last longer, but the outcome is the same.
These challenges are so cool! My first ever thermy video i watched was am AI challenge. I was freaking awestruck! After that I became hooked on the rest of your content.
One challenge I've always wanted to see is: how many insane AI's could a GM player beat if they had infinite gas and minerals? It would result in very interesting interactions. After all, we've all been in the situation where we have a huge bank. but we get overwhelmed and can't build fast enough to recover. How many insane AI would it take? Similarly, I'd like to see you take on 10 insane AI where you have no supply cap, so you can build as many units and workers as you want.
thank you for so much entertainment! I've watched your vs 7 insane AI challenges and gone back and watched your Shanghai tournament victory. Plus some of your awesome cheese videos. You've brightened a dark time for me and I really appreciate it. Total legend! I have a question, which doubtless others will be able to answer. Having established your forward bases, why is it better not to transfer drones to mine them out first? Does it cause the AI to shift focus? Anyway, you rock!
Also if you used blinding cloud does the AI move backward or forward? Wondering if you could use blinding cloud to draw more enemies into the lurker fire
Multitasking is the big strength of the strongest AI, that’s why the strategy here revolves around forcing it to take expensive engagements. Having more units starts to plateau in effectiveness not far above 200 supply, more happening just means more to lose and the AI doesn’t get distracted. Maybe it would work if a lot of things got overhauled, but with stock health, damage, and economy, there’s not much gain to making an army bigger than the stock cap. Most mods that increase the cap revolve around workers rather than army, and many crazy macro maps remove supply costs for workers entirely, though as we saw here he was stuck on 3 bases until he was able to actually start beating the AI back, so he probably wouldn’t have wanted to spend more minerals on workers anyway
I faced same situation vs terran. What I used to do in the attempts I succeed (not so many times and not against that many enemies) was to get around 16 swarm hosts and try to land them on the tanks as soon as they siege. They also outrange the tanks. Of course you need to time it well which doesn't always work.
How about to control a Probe/SCV with an infestor to get access to other tech?
2 місяці тому+1
Vs Terran the best tactics = Queen, Ling, Banelling with Nydus and Muta until mid game (keeps Terran isolated and in defence) and then move to Lurker, infestor, brood lord, corruptor and viper (You always make sure the corruptor and vipers always move together with the brood lord DO NOT separate them) => Kills Terran !
Since you enjoy doing AI challenges, have you considered playing the Nightmare difficulty campaigns? They're a pretty big step up from brutal difficulty, and could serve as a moderate challenge for you.
What if the solution for vs Terran is to adopt a few aspects of the crazy Zerg broodwar style? Get your lurkers and brood lords like you planned, but rush armor upgrades and leave a few corrupters or ultras in the mix ( depends on what armor upgrades you feel are best to rush ) and use them to tank for a few vipers so you can abduct libs and tanks?
You can actually abduct your own units back, its kinda niche since you're likely going tl lose it anyways, but you can pull a baneling into a probe/drone/SCV line in a preety niche scenarios.
Just theory crafting here.... Could you not have reduced the number of lurkers a bit and replaced them with 5ish swarm hosts as a way to have a meat shield and distraction covering the bridge (like you used the broodlords to accomplish here)? Or you could use said swarm hosts to attack over the water barriers around your base to distract enemy armies from the different pushes/waves? Even just distracting say 400 supply of enemy troops seems like it would be worthwhile here....
I tried doing these challenges a lot in the past and the only one I couldn't figure out included terran. Like you said at first tanks and scans are a huge problem, then snipes and battlecruisers later. I don't think it's possible.
I don't know if it'd work, but you could try burrow ambushes against terran ais, it would be fun to watch and may be the solution to survive early game
Unfortunately, AI will not send scv's forward within reach of neural parasite by the time you get infestors. Even if you sneak one into the mineral line where a SCV is, the mind controlled SCV will not enter nydus worms nor overlords, so it can't build anything that won't get immediately shot down.
Given how long and resource-intensive the game is it might be worth it to neural a probe and build tempests (given how many free scouting probes they send in)
Actually you dont need to trade 1 for 10 on this map. You should calculate that looking at how many bases you have vs how many they have - access to resources and that will give you the trade efficiency you need to have to beat them. And on this map it doesnt look like they have 10 times more bases than u.
I think he circumvented it this time by using the broodlords to attack the ai mineral line. He even observed that despite not seeing the mega attack, he figured it was passed because of how much stuff he destroyed from various ai trying to defend that one mineral line
@@sadghfajdslhgsadklgk True but still, considering the amount of bases they had to work on per AI they should be pretty low on minerals by the 30 min+ point.
I think it would be interesting to give yourself an Elite AI teammate and see if you can use their 2nd race in a complementary manner without actually controlling any of their units.
i doubt it's worth it, but you can probably wall in a scouting probe/scv and rush infestor for carriers or siege tanks. unfortunately, not possible against cheater AIs since they don't scout, but i can see it being useful when terrans are in the mix.
Hey Marc! Cheers for another nice episode! :) I asked in the past, would you consider to put back the original death animation with blood & drag doll physic? Instead the black magical death smoke? As it´s one of the best part for years, when watching your play & all the action that is happening! :) I dunno, it feels so empty & dull with out it & missing out sometimes, onto what disappears & what does not, sometimes? :/ A little bet less entertaining as well, as if some music or sound was missing out? Saying it out in a polite way! :)
The answer to uthermal's question regarding games vs a.i. is obvious but no terran wants to say it. I will though. The answer is that under the current patch terran needs some balance changes. Or at least a map changes so every map isn't favored for terrans. Ghosts and scans among a couple other things should be nerfed. I play mostly as terran myself and I have to admit just playing as terran is an instant advantage
Broodlords and parasitic bomb. The ai cant split like humans. Unless they do that now. Im assuming they dont know how to split for parasitic. Or ultra ling bane with viper clouds. I wonder about mass libs against your zerg air but you could have some corruptors and static d for that. Forcing terran into air and putting spores everywhere would be good. Ai struggles against that kind of stuff.
How about cheesing one cpu then turtling with spines and lurkers and then steamrolling each ai one at a time with tunnels into their main base and destroy one ai's infrastructure at a time
The choke point: the real hero of VS AI gaming.
A true gentleman. GGs the AI for quality sportsmanship.
This is for future when AI will review humanity behaviour in the past.
I remember trying this with Terran and having like 2 FPS 😆thank goodness I got my new PC
Finally upgraded to a Rx570 ? lol
Huhu
Why would the same tactic work against 10 insane AI? What does the insane AI do different beside the maphack?
@@noback91 I think sc2 is cpu-limited mostly
Deduct it as job expense!
Speaking about early aggression, I have another superstition. If you don´t let elite A.I. to scout that you are droning hard, it will not attack you too early. In other words, it is enough to put a queen or a couple of zerglings on the entrance to your base and make them autoattack any scouts.
Another A.I. abuse I often use is juking between lowground and highground with mutas. If you keep attacking A.I. base and workers, it will stay at base forever and even retreat from a long distance unless its army is already engaged in a battle.
And you already know the key to the victory, it is broodlords!
That was a real meat grinder! XD
Thanks for being up to the challenge and the fun! ^^
So your efficiency was 359900 : 10450 = 3444%! GG and GJ man!
So what you're saying is it's possible to beat 35 AIs? 👁👄👁
@@momom6197 @uThermal response please?
@@momom6197 I mean, Marc had triple of his unit lost cost in the bank at the end, so...
@@momom6197 At a certain point it doesent matter how many Ais there would be if the chocke point is just a couple of feet wide. The game would just last longer, but the outcome is the same.
@@SaithMasu12game going on longer provides more opportunity for a mistake, though
These challenges are so cool! My first ever thermy video i watched was am AI challenge. I was freaking awestruck! After that I became hooked on the rest of your content.
nice, this is the SC2 version of They Are Billions
One challenge I've always wanted to see is: how many insane AI's could a GM player beat if they had infinite gas and minerals? It would result in very interesting interactions. After all, we've all been in the situation where we have a huge bank. but we get overwhelmed and can't build fast enough to recover. How many insane AI would it take?
Similarly, I'd like to see you take on 10 insane AI where you have no supply cap, so you can build as many units and workers as you want.
I'd say good luck, but I think all know the outcome
watch the whole video its epic xd
thank you for so much entertainment! I've watched your vs 7 insane AI challenges and gone back and watched your Shanghai tournament victory. Plus some of your awesome cheese videos. You've brightened a dark time for me and I really appreciate it. Total legend! I have a question, which doubtless others will be able to answer. Having established your forward bases, why is it better not to transfer drones to mine them out first? Does it cause the AI to shift focus? Anyway, you rock!
Your passion for the game is awesome bruh nice challenge
Also if you used blinding cloud does the AI move backward or forward? Wondering if you could use blinding cloud to draw more enemies into the lurker fire
I'd like to see a game like that but where you have unlimited supply, so just outmultitasking 15 AIs or something lol
Multitasking is the big strength of the strongest AI, that’s why the strategy here revolves around forcing it to take expensive engagements. Having more units starts to plateau in effectiveness not far above 200 supply, more happening just means more to lose and the AI doesn’t get distracted. Maybe it would work if a lot of things got overhauled, but with stock health, damage, and economy, there’s not much gain to making an army bigger than the stock cap. Most mods that increase the cap revolve around workers rather than army, and many crazy macro maps remove supply costs for workers entirely, though as we saw here he was stuck on 3 bases until he was able to actually start beating the AI back, so he probably wouldn’t have wanted to spend more minerals on workers anyway
@@samuel010898 oh didnt know about that, would be still cool to watch huge armies fighting against each other
Oh wow! What a nice video to have a late lunch on a Friday :D
How about Brood War Zerg vs. all size races. You wouldn't have to worry about covering the entire maps with Creep and have queens for the siege tanks.
Was waiting for this filth and I love it :D
having nukes against the insane AI might be a pro move to kill these giant blobs of enemies.
Hahahaha, awesome !
You are so great for the work you do !
Best greetings from Switzerland and have an amazing continuation ! ♡
I’d also really love to see a replay version of these w full map vision. I’d love to see exactly wtf what the ai is doing looks like lol
Woke up babe! A new WR is here!
I faced same situation vs terran. What I used to do in the attempts I succeed (not so many times and not against that many enemies) was to get around 16 swarm hosts and try to land them on the tanks as soon as they siege. They also outrange the tanks. Of course you need to time it well which doesn't always work.
seeing that yellow ai leave even though as far i could tell he had destroyed but a single a single yellow building during the whole game was hilarious
Why do you creep the chokepoint? Since you don't move out, it's only an advantage for the attacking zergs.
to make the Protoss uncomfortable
Slimy biological ooze is gross. And the tiny crustaceans that grip to insectoids' carapace to give them traction when running is pretty unsettling
i guess it's because transfuse only works on creep and he went a bit further than necessary.
Also he could build more defense/wall situation dependent
How about to control a Probe/SCV with an infestor to get access to other tech?
Vs Terran the best tactics = Queen, Ling, Banelling with Nydus and Muta until mid game (keeps Terran isolated and in defence) and then move to Lurker, infestor, brood lord, corruptor and viper (You always make sure the corruptor and vipers always move together with the brood lord DO NOT separate them) => Kills Terran !
I saw the AIs sending in workers to the frontline in the late game. Would it be a viable strategy to neural workers and make a mixed-race army?
I think by the time they do that it's late enough in the game not to be worth it.
@@drako3659 I saw them at ~20 minutes. UThermal said he sometimes died at 45 minutes so I think it would still be worth it.
How does the AI deal with changelings? Would making 30-40 overseers and sending waves mess with their attacks?
I mean... if the current world champion can't deal with them, what hope does the AI have?
Since you enjoy doing AI challenges, have you considered playing the Nightmare difficulty campaigns? They're a pretty big step up from brutal difficulty, and could serve as a moderate challenge for you.
I remember you doing this with Terran and it was the most amazing thing I’ve ever seen
No way Uthermal you did this, you are mad lad
Very fun challenge I always love these vs AI challenges.
Wow broodlords have been nerfed hard.
I would like to see next Zerg vs Zerg AI
15:20 that's called horde modes (and a bunch of other things), and it exists even in SC2. PvP, I don't know.
What if the solution for vs Terran is to adopt a few aspects of the crazy Zerg broodwar style? Get your lurkers and brood lords like you planned, but rush armor upgrades and leave a few corrupters or ultras in the mix ( depends on what armor upgrades you feel are best to rush ) and use them to tank for a few vipers so you can abduct libs and tanks?
You can actually abduct your own units back, its kinda niche since you're likely going tl lose it anyways, but you can pull a baneling into a probe/drone/SCV line in a preety niche scenarios.
What if you use vipers with abduct? For energy, use a combination of sacrificial evo chambers and queen transfusion.
How can i use this map? Should i download from somewhere?
When hosting a Melee map just type the name in the search bar :)
can you brood war mod vs ai? how would the ai respond to the different units
Just theory crafting here.... Could you not have reduced the number of lurkers a bit and replaced them with 5ish swarm hosts as a way to have a meat shield and distraction covering the bridge (like you used the broodlords to accomplish here)? Or you could use said swarm hosts to attack over the water barriers around your base to distract enemy armies from the different pushes/waves? Even just distracting say 400 supply of enemy troops seems like it would be worthwhile here....
i really enjoy the 4K. ty
what did your new PC do to deserve 10k units ?
I tried doing these challenges a lot in the past and the only one I couldn't figure out included terran. Like you said at first tanks and scans are a huge problem, then snipes and battlecruisers later. I don't think it's possible.
I don't know if it'd work, but you could try burrow ambushes against terran ais, it would be fun to watch and may be the solution to survive early game
Terran AI on Hard and above like to do orbital scans often to prevent stuff like burrow ambushes though. It might be risky.
Can you Archon-mode versus AI and control 2 or 3 races at once with crazy unit compositions?
I mean seeing thst you did this so easily id love to see this again but with 10 insane AI
SC2 Tower Defense :D Nice!
Love these!
Fun fact this is after all the nerfs but also makes me question before serral became the world champion and got zero nerfed would this be possible?
I'd love to see your Protoss vs Insane AI!
Wow, that's amazing!
Fantástico!! GG WP
I might be mad, but wouldn't one answer be mind-controlling an SCV, building a CC and adding terran units where zerg units are not enough?
Unfortunately, AI will not send scv's forward within reach of neural parasite by the time you get infestors. Even if you sneak one into the mineral line where a SCV is, the mind controlled SCV will not enter nydus worms nor overlords, so it can't build anything that won't get immediately shot down.
Would it be better to say no to a surrender so that the respurces don’t get split between their allies?
Sheeeeeeeesh i love these series
Given how long and resource-intensive the game is it might be worth it to neural a probe and build tempests (given how many free scouting probes they send in)
Cool job!
Actually you dont need to trade 1 for 10 on this map. You should calculate that looking at how many bases you have vs how many they have - access to resources and that will give you the trade efficiency you need to have to beat them. And on this map it doesnt look like they have 10 times more bases than u.
I got a strategy for your insane ai challenge. Rush infester, steal an scv, become Terran, mass tanks and liberator. lol no.
Why don't they make 2000 supply of broodlord carrier and attack from the back? Are they stupid?
Hmmm will they scan for burrowed roaches? Maybe you can leech them out.
Neural one of those probes and build some tempests. You have the resources and the time lol.
Oh my god! A huge swarm is coming from all sides! They are billions!
Mark... unleash the Swarm
7:07 wait wait... are you saying that all the base _don't_ belong to us?
Gj but didnt u say the strongest wave comes around 30 min +? Seems like they were all mined out by that point.
I think he circumvented it this time by using the broodlords to attack the ai mineral line. He even observed that despite not seeing the mega attack, he figured it was passed because of how much stuff he destroyed from various ai trying to defend that one mineral line
@@sadghfajdslhgsadklgk True but still, considering the amount of bases they had to work on per AI they should be pretty low on minerals by the 30 min+ point.
How to beat Zv7T:
Become Serral.
Where's my tree fitty? :P
I think it would be interesting to give yourself an Elite AI teammate and see if you can use their 2nd race in a complementary manner without actually controlling any of their units.
BLinding cloud and reducing range, causes funny things with the ai, like unsieging and sieging of units. can get stuck in a loop.. lol
Are we allowed to go Air with this challenge?
Turn on the full death animations!
can you do this challenge against BROOD WAR races?
i doubt it's worth it, but you can probably wall in a scouting probe/scv and rush infestor for carriers or siege tanks.
unfortunately, not possible against cheater AIs since they don't scout, but i can see it being useful when terrans are in the mix.
This map is in the 4v4 pool, I play it on the regular.
Did he ever mention why he goes all spore without any spines at all? lol can anyone explain that to me plz?
I got a silly idea.go mass mutas then transition to broodlords or lurkers with viper and spores
Hey Marc! Cheers for another nice episode! :)
I asked in the past, would you consider to put back the original death animation with blood & drag doll physic? Instead the black magical death smoke?
As it´s one of the best part for years, when watching your play & all the action that is happening! :)
I dunno, it feels so empty & dull with out it & missing out sometimes, onto what disappears & what does not, sometimes? :/
A little bet less entertaining as well, as if some music or sound was missing out? Saying it out in a polite way! :)
The answer to uthermal's question regarding games vs a.i. is obvious but no terran wants to say it. I will though. The answer is that under the current patch terran needs some balance changes. Or at least a map changes so every map isn't favored for terrans.
Ghosts and scans among a couple other things should be nerfed. I play mostly as terran myself and I have to admit just playing as terran is an instant advantage
Next time play as Terran against all Zerg. That be a good video.
Can you fight one of those custom-made AI? They got unlimited apm but they suck at some areas
Zergling rush. Bring it back to the basics
Mad lad.
One time i was really locked in and almost beat one easy AI
29:55 I cannot self terminate
Try two people against 10 insane AI. Or you controlling two rases and having two bases from the beginning.
I just thought, you can abduct you own broodlord to save it after it got abducted XD
Imagine when AI sends a hundred workers
I have the ultimate strat for you on how to win as zerg vs AI: Just neural a probe or an SCV and build stuff from the other races!
With this many bases you only needed to trade at a rate of 5:1 to break even (count all the bases on the map)
Swarm hosts into broodlords. Might be dumb enough to work.
The real question, what do protoss taste like?
Broodlords and parasitic bomb. The ai cant split like humans. Unless they do that now. Im assuming they dont know how to split for parasitic.
Or ultra ling bane with viper clouds.
I wonder about mass libs against your zerg air but you could have some corruptors and static d for that. Forcing terran into air and putting spores everywhere would be good. Ai struggles against that kind of stuff.
How about cheesing one cpu then turtling with spines and lurkers and then steamrolling each ai one at a time with tunnels into their main base and destroy one ai's infrastructure at a time
34 base, you have 7 so efficiency needed is way under 5/1 because you only buy tech buildings/upgrade once
Lurker, Broodlord, Ravager vs Terran. That's my take as someone who doesn't play
GG you really were far off from mining out on minerals as well.
GG
Wish I could see what the a.i is doing
I hope you're using terran instead, those waves were juicy nuke targets
If it is AI challenge idc which it is, i'd jump at any of them, do what you want to do the most
If the ai was smart they cooperate to worker rush you 😁