Carlo Rovelli: How Heisenberg’s Hay Fever Gave Us Quantum Mechanics (205)

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  • Опубліковано 18 лис 2024

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  • @DrBrianKeating
    @DrBrianKeating  2 роки тому +8

    Who made a bigger contribution to our understanding of quantum mechanics, Schrödinger or Heisenberg? Let me know and don’t forget to sign up for my mailing list to stay in touch with me and Carlo too; just click here 👉 briankeating.com/mailing_list.php 📝

    • @genghisgalahad8465
      @genghisgalahad8465 2 роки тому +6

      I’m not certain about Heisenberg and I’m ambivalent about Schrodinger...

    • @chriszachtian
      @chriszachtian 2 роки тому +2

      Brian, that is somehow like comparing a titan to a giant.

    • @DrBrianKeating
      @DrBrianKeating  2 роки тому +3

      Lol. You’re a cool cat

    • @DrBrianKeating
      @DrBrianKeating  2 роки тому +4

      lol. Homework isn’t always easy

    • @jimmyjasi-anti-descartes7088
      @jimmyjasi-anti-descartes7088 2 роки тому +2

      Well Correct me please:
      Shroedinger developed Copenhagen Interpretation that is crypto-Berkleyist("You are not supposed to Ask what happens when You are not looking)

  • @johneonas6628
    @johneonas6628 2 роки тому +10

    Thank for spending the time on these videos.

  • @joyecolbeck4490
    @joyecolbeck4490 2 роки тому +6

    What a fantastic start to the year! Got hot coffee and chocolate biscuits by the log fire for this one.

  • @xkagutaba
    @xkagutaba 2 роки тому +4

    in my humble opinion, i think Heisenberg was probably the only one among his peers, and (most of the) later generations of physicists (including today's), who understood what quantum theory (and science in general) is really about.* it's so simple, yet very deep, and most definitely overlooked:
    "We are finally led to believe that the laws of nature which we formulate mathematically in quantum theory deal no longer with the particles themselves but with our knowledge of the elementary particles. The question whether these particles exist in space and time "in themselves" can thus no longer be posed in this form. The conception of the objective reality of the elementary particles has thus evaporated in a curious way, not into the fog of some new, obscure, or not yet understood reality concept, but into the transparent clarity of a mathematics that represents no longer the behavior of the elementary particles but rather our knowledge of this behavior. The atomic physicist has had to come to terms with the fact that his science is only a link in the endless chain of discussions of man with nature.
    "The familiar classification of the world into subject and object, inner and outer world, body and soul, somehow no longer quite applies, and indeed leads to difficulties. In science, also, the object of research is no longer nature in itself but rather nature exposed to man's questioning, and to this extent man here also meets himself. Science no longer is in the position of observer of nature, but rather recognizes itself as part of the interplay between man and nature. The world view of natural science thus ceases to be a view of "natural" science in its proper sense." [1]
    * so did, the one and only, Scott Aaronson, despite not being a physicist.
    [1] W. H., The Representation of Nature in Contemporary Physics

  • @davidlakhter
    @davidlakhter 2 роки тому +4

    18:23 this is a very interesting point

  • @SzTz100
    @SzTz100 2 роки тому +6

    Good interview Brian, interesting discussion.

    • @DrBrianKeating
      @DrBrianKeating  2 роки тому +2

      Thanks so much! *What was your favorite takeaway from this conversation?* _Please join my mailing list to get _*_FREE_*_ notes & resources from this show! Click_ 👉 briankeating.com/mailing_list.php

    • @SzTz100
      @SzTz100 2 роки тому +1

      @@DrBrianKeating Any debate about the origins of Quantum Mechanics is an interesting discussion, the Quantum measurement problem, the particle wave duality and even complex numbers.

    • @DrBrianKeating
      @DrBrianKeating  2 роки тому +1

      Thanks very much

  • @stretchbatchelor
    @stretchbatchelor 2 роки тому +1

    Dr Roselli’s interaction hypothesis is what happens between players improvising music. Each player’s vibration contributes to the unpredictable performance for the listener.

  • @Robyzed57
    @Robyzed57 2 роки тому +1

    Much as I keep dr. Rovelli and his work in high esteem, I truly hope he and the cited 'Nobel prize physicist' (maybe dr. David Gross, just my guess though) aren't really enemies - at most, adversaries. We all had better pay attention to the words we use...particularly amongst scientists!😉

  • @massimiliano-oronzo
    @massimiliano-oronzo 2 роки тому +1

    In my opinion the objects of the microscopic world in order to manifest (emerge) as such must undergo a process of "separation" (in a kind of decoherence), while as long as they belong to the quantum domain they continue to be constantly "connected" to each other through quantum fields. In this sense, the act of measuring a quantum object is THE process that creates the separation (detachment) between the level of microscopic reality and the level of macroscopic reality. So it is this process that creates reality on our scale, through which our universe manifests itself. When we see a photon leave a dot on a photographic plate or when we see the typical interference pattern forming in a double slit experiment, it happens that information at the quantum level is "transferred" at the macroscopic level. It is legitimate to speak of a particle only at macroscopic level. At the microscopic level, everything that exists is in the form of waves. We can have knowledge of the quantum world (level) only through the information that comes to us from it. In this perspective, matter, and therefore gravity, are emergent phenomena. This is why I believe it is impossible to quantize gravity.

  • @rezasahand
    @rezasahand 2 роки тому +1

    That was a beautiful analogy , i mean the idea of network and Combinatorics for heisenberg's matrix formulation of QM and also carlo's point about the origin of complexity which naturally takes the side of Heisenberg's camp in the QM feud . Thanks for this episode , very informative. And please bring Nima Arkani Hamed in your great show 🙏

  • @scepticalchymist
    @scepticalchymist 2 роки тому +1

    I might get it wrong but I would translate 'relations' into 'interactions'. There is just nothing to observe without interactions, thus these are at the heart of quantum physics. It would be interesting to think about whether when we see the wave function collapse the wave functions sees the rest of the universe collapse as well? And what does that even mean?

  • @joedavis4150
    @joedavis4150 2 роки тому +6

    ... The most substantive theory of time, is that we should get as much of it as we can..... free time is more valuable than money.... if we have the courage, we should immediately stop punching the time clock.... go listen to the Bob black essay, the abolition of work.... Viva La free time!

    • @agee1961
      @agee1961 2 роки тому +2

      But we understand life can't be all free time. We have to work and work hard to provide the world with what it wants

    • @joedavis4150
      @joedavis4150 2 роки тому +1

      @@agee1961 ...... a g e e, not really. The world has excess goods and excess workers. It won't miss us at all when we stop doing what we are conditioned to do.... we can contribute more to the world, by obtaining the free time to do the work we do best.

    • @agee1961
      @agee1961 2 роки тому +2

      @@joedavis4150 lol excess goods is exactly what the world wants, so exactly what I mean when I say we have to work hard to give the fat asses of the world food to eat, toys to waste money on, shows to watch, and whatever else. The world won't miss us because it isn't a living thing that has any feelings whatsoever right? You ended it with saying more FREE TIME to do the WORK we do best. Idk where you are from but in America every fuckin person has the opportunity to achieve that for sure plenty of HARD WORKING people with little free time love and enjoy what they do. Free time isn't what we need. A different mentality to life is what we need

    • @channelwarhorse3367
      @channelwarhorse3367 2 роки тому +1

      So manufacturing the Sir Isaac Newton Machine, stated impossible by Newton in Print, time put into the Einstein INCH equation, Grand Unification is published 😳 .. drop the weight onto check ✔ valve Mechanical Equivalent of Heat .. money 💰 the manufacture of a competitive technology against subsidized fossil fuels ... Fund Benjamin Franklin path least resistance to the time-line of .. no clean energy technology. Time is inevitable.

  • @enterprisesoftwarearchitect
    @enterprisesoftwarearchitect 2 роки тому +1

    Awesome!! We got a favorite! Dig Carlo!! Helgoland - that’s where Heisenberg got hay fever I read.

  • @charlesbourgoigne2130
    @charlesbourgoigne2130 2 роки тому +2

    Besides this being a great interview, now I want to visit Helgoland and Lesbos ...

  • @robbie_
    @robbie_ 2 роки тому +2

    Before watching, is Helgoland where Heisenberg went because he had terrible hay fever? And where he met up with the Great Bore. Or was it Dirac. Anyway, yes I've read Quantum Story :P.

  • @portalsandmagicghostnumbercube
    @portalsandmagicghostnumbercube 2 роки тому +1

    To combine Heisenberg and Schrodinger, observable and wave, an amended Invisible/Holographic Principle needs to be devised.

  • @nunomaroco583
    @nunomaroco583 2 роки тому +2

    Hi, i belive the two are important to the field, think about the talk, an anolgy, waves from Ocean or river, they are calm, but when interact whit the rocks, they revel its true nature, noise and strong, maybe electrons have that kind of propeties, only when interact they revel its nature, like Carlo say, its all about interactions, all the best.

  • @GEMSofGOD_com
    @GEMSofGOD_com 2 роки тому +1

    29:00 absolutely the Thing

  • @hmdshokri
    @hmdshokri 2 роки тому +3

    once I watched a mock debate between Carlo and David Chalmers which Carlo called David Chalmers a Atheist communist!

  • @vladimirrogozhin7797
    @vladimirrogozhin7797 2 роки тому +1

    An excellent discussion in search of a way to overcome the conceptual-paradigmatic crisis in the metaphysical basis of fundamental science, the crisis of understanding, "trouble with physics" (Lee Smolin).
    To understand means "to grasp the structure" (G. Gutner "Ontology of Mathematical Discourse").
    But in order to "grasp" the first-structure of the Universe being as an Integral generating process, very "crazy" dialectical-ontological ideas are needed.
    John Archibald Wheeler left good philosophical precepts to physicists:
    "We are no longer satisfied with insights only into particles, fields of force, into geometry, or even into time and space. Today we demand of physics some understanding of existence itself."
    "To my mind there must be, at the bottom of it all, not an equation, but an utterly simple idea. And to me that idea, when we discover it, will be so compelling, so inevitable, that we will say to one another, 'Oh, how beautiful. How could it have been otherwise?' "
    "Shut up and count" should be replaced by the epistemological maxim: "Understand and count quickly".
    At the base of knowledge, the Big Ontological Revolution must take place. Phenomenological Physics must become Ontological Physics.
    Good luck in promoting "Helgoland" in Russian!

  • @wulphstein
    @wulphstein 2 роки тому +2

    If you know that the building blocks of forces are the momentum operators of wave functions, which are actually gravitons, then you can create any kind of force that you like.

  • @wulphstein
    @wulphstein 2 роки тому +2

    All wave functions mathematics are subject to quantum state operators for momentum, position, energy and angular momentum. It could be that there exists a real mechanism that acts like wave functions and operators. Such a mechanism would be the perfect bui5block of spacetime.

    • @channelwarhorse3367
      @channelwarhorse3367 2 роки тому

      Floating Bodies Diagrams describes parallel wave frame of reference to source. Entanglement of mass and energy which to transfer involves friction, regardless of whether is Standard Model mass or Periodic Table mass.

  • @davidlakhter
    @davidlakhter 2 роки тому +2

    24:21 the theory that momentum and position don't commute basically allows for the covariate effect of the observer in the system?

    • @hyperduality2838
      @hyperduality2838 2 роки тому +1

      Momentum is dual to position.
      Energy is dual to time.

  • @jeanpierrerodriguezgarzon7113
    @jeanpierrerodriguezgarzon7113 2 роки тому +1

    Reality is relative, change with differents observers and observations of objects and connections.

  • @wulphstein
    @wulphstein 2 роки тому +5

    We all know that a water wave is made of water molecules. In a sort of awkward sense, a quantum wave function is made of physics constants. More accurately, a quantum wave function is made of something that broadcasts physics constants throughout space and time. Don't worry that you cannot conceive how any such thing exists. Just follow the "model" to its logical conclusion.

  • @inamortz2372
    @inamortz2372 2 роки тому +1

    Great video! Your English is coming on in leaps and bounds too.

  • @wulphstein
    @wulphstein 2 роки тому +1

    We should talk about the polarization of photons as they go through a polarizer. My graviton model says that a real photon is a virtual photon that is excited by an energy E = hf; basically the difference between a virtual photon (proven by the Casimir effect to exist) and a real photon is that the virtual photon can become energized by energy to become a real photon; like the way a light bulb can be energized by voltage. The surface area of an expanding graviton is a virtual photon. The surface area is expanding at the speed of light as an oscillating virtual (not energized) electromagnetic field. The oscillation of the surface is polarized. The graviton is allowed to spin as it expands, which causes the virtual or real photon to have a rotating electric field.
    The expanding graviton is a suitable building block of spacetime. The fact that it's a complicated building block is just the necessary requirement to make the laws of physics work. How is a graviton complicated? (1) It's expanding with radius r = ct. (2) the surface area is a virtual photon. (3) An energized virtual photon is a real photon. (4) Expanding gravitons have ALL of the physics constants built into them. (5) Expanding gravitons are what wave function PSI is describing. (6) The operators of wave functions are characteristics of expanding gravitons. (7) Gravitons move past each other in a way that recapitulates the derivation of time dilation. (8) Gravitons are continually being generated. The rate of generation may be tied to the temperature in some way, such that the rate of generation was much higher during the big bang (to explain the inflationary epoch). 9. The center of the expanding graviton is allowed to move around. (10) the overlap of many gravitons creates the quantum fields of standard model particles.
    Very sorry that this model is hard to read or get through, but if give the Expanding Graviton your consideration, then you can explain (1) dark energy as the total energy of all of the gravitons that exist multiplied by the energy it takes to stop a single graviton from expanding (which is a very small energy). You can explain why the big bang expanded. You can explain the inflationary epoch. You can explain quantum field theory.
    Whatever loops or strings that the physics community thinks can explain what spacetime is made of, those are just subsets of the expanding graviton.. A quantum entanglement between two photons or two photons is very likely to be very similar to what a super-string is.

  • @Feldphysiker
    @Feldphysiker 11 місяців тому +1

    The Commutation Relation is in Max Born's tombstone not Heisenberg's.

  • @jtinalexandria
    @jtinalexandria 2 роки тому +1

    Dr. Keating sounds like Todderbert the host of the Radio Waves channel...

  • @wulphstein
    @wulphstein 2 роки тому +7

    If you knew what you were doing, you would be able to figure out how store gravitational potential energy in a quantum entanglement between photons. Period.

  • @matterasmachine
    @matterasmachine 2 роки тому +1

    To understand universe you should make an assumption that it's a huge discrete robot. All weirdness will disappear. Physics is only statistics of that robot and that's why it does what statistics would do - it predicts behaviour - just like you can predict that half of coins will be heads and half will be tails. But in reality universe follows algorithms, not physical laws. Physical laws appear the same way as expected value appears in statistics - after huge amount of interactions that cancel each other.

  • @robbie_
    @robbie_ 2 роки тому +2

    Carlo brushes his hair with a balloon. I like him already.

  • @joedavis4150
    @joedavis4150 2 роки тому +2

    ... Cool Island!... doesn't Quantum simply mean that which we don't understand, and can't explain?... this is the way it always has been, and forever will be.

    • @robbie_
      @robbie_ 2 роки тому

      Quanta is latin for Quantus, or quantity, I think.

  • @GEMSofGOD_com
    @GEMSofGOD_com 2 роки тому +1

    Complex numers are pure 2D space. Where there are precisely two roots. Think of it this way. This is why.

  • @das_it_mane
    @das_it_mane 2 роки тому +2

    I see Carlo, I click

  • @ifeelaway
    @ifeelaway 2 роки тому +1

    You guys vibe nicely.

    • @DrBrianKeating
      @DrBrianKeating  2 роки тому +2

      Erica Thanks so much! *What was your favorite takeaway from this conversation?* _Please join my mailing list to get _*_nice_*_ notes & resources from this show! Click_ 👉 briankeating.com/mailing_list.php

    • @ifeelaway
      @ifeelaway 2 роки тому +2

      @@DrBrianKeating Well, just reinforcing the relational view, that relationships, er, matter . . . And that even helps in thinking about human relationships in that everything is subjective, so even if they're not that into you, that is only one observer's opinion lol!

    • @DrBrianKeating
      @DrBrianKeating  2 роки тому +2

      Thanks very much Erica

  • @gregoryhead382
    @gregoryhead382 2 роки тому +1

    Quantum mechanics infers any and all equations with the speed of light to reveal subatomic and cosmological phenomena, in theory. String theory can utilize other measures besides c, yet add c.

  • @davidlakhter
    @davidlakhter 2 роки тому +2

    22:39 is this similar to the point that Elon Musk makes about figuring out the right question because the universe is the answer?

  • @wba3-berlin
    @wba3-berlin 2 роки тому +1

    Poetry Physics
    Physics Poetry
    Marvelous

  • @fractalnomics
    @fractalnomics 2 роки тому +1

    27:29 29:00

  • @janklaas6885
    @janklaas6885 2 роки тому +3

    🇺🇳22:39 well i am, and so are you that why you wanna solve questions 1 by 1.

  • @george-rq8uy
    @george-rq8uy 2 роки тому

    7:25 "his": Sappho was of course a woman. A little bit of a weird moment to see Rovelli slip here, but I guess we're all only human. Maybe I'm the one not knowing and Rovelli knows that the famous Sappho had a brother who also wrote poems ;)

  • @eksffa
    @eksffa 2 роки тому +1

    NTS 75/u

  • @dougg1075
    @dougg1075 2 роки тому

    Cool

  • @manuelcasanova5698
    @manuelcasanova5698 2 роки тому +1

    cool

    • @DrBrianKeating
      @DrBrianKeating  2 роки тому +1

      Thanks so much! *What was your favorite takeaway from this conversation?* _Please join my mailing list to get _*_FREE_*_ notes & resources from this show! Click_ 👉 briankeating.com/mailing_list.php

    • @manuelcasanova5698
      @manuelcasanova5698 2 роки тому

      @@DrBrianKeating The takeaway is i should attempt to keep learning this information and to stay on top of the lazy relapse bc it hurts too good. my personal vice. takeaway ... keep learning as long as is possible.

  • @channelwarhorse3367
    @channelwarhorse3367 2 роки тому

    END the WAR .. utilize the Einstein INCH equation, P~G

  • @maxwelldillon4805
    @maxwelldillon4805 2 роки тому +2

    Rovelli is not interested in an ultimate theory of nature? That, to me, suggests a lack of ambition.

  • @wulphstein
    @wulphstein 2 роки тому +1

    I was watching a quantum mechanics video about scattering last night; ua-cam.com/video/3NEnyNBUbSk/v-deo.html. All the formulas are talking about waves of the form psi = e^i (kx - omega t). All I'm saying is that if this kind of wave is a cross section of a ripple of spacetime, that I call a graviton, then quantum mechanics becomes less weird and more natural.
    Why shouldn't quantum waves be connected to ripples of expanding waves? Isn't that more natural than superstrings and quantum loops?