During my military aviation service SOP was to step torque in thirds to final value, wait five minutes while periodically giving the torqued fastener(s) light raps with the handle of a screwdriver to relieve "torque tension" and then give a final torque at final value then safety tie if required with either copper or stainless steel safety wire.
@TheDilweedI’m ocd, I used a plumb bob, laser bore sighter, and drew a leveled cross on my door with a laser level then checked it with my carpenters level, drew a permanent cross with that, then checked each one individually making sure they all Naturally lined up together and then sighted it that way. Then I got on my roof, shot a dandelion off its stem 150 yards away, the police came, had to explain it was just a pellet gun. Good times.
Very cool. Im obsessive with my scopes being level. You can also hang a plumb behind the scope and shine a flashlight through the objective lens and use the shadow of the crosshairs the same way.
A Starrett sliding parallel level under the flat of the scope and on top of the pic rail works. Put some tension on the screws, purposely cant the scope a tad and when you open up the machinist parallel, the scope will rotate until full contact is made with the parallel surface, both on the pic rail and under the scope body. Has worked for me all these years. My 2¢ on another way to level a scope to rifle.
I might be wrong here, but it looks like the stick hanging from the string is touching the ground as it angles off. Wouldn't that throw the string out of plumb? Obviously a small amount over the length of that string, but still, precision! Lol
As long as there is some weight on the string, it should be fine, any partial weight will pull the string straight down, you don't want that weight completely off ground swinging anyways. Strings can only pull, they cannot push ;-) But, if the weight is completely on the ground and dragging the string to the side, that's another story.
On my last scope mounting instead of leveling the scope to a level rifle I leveled the scope to gravity while the rifle was most comfortable to me (canted to right) . So far zero regrets.
@@arminkowitz2726yes it works fine. He levelled the scope to gravity(plumb bob or whatever). His technique produces a small windage error but is small enough to ignore and can be verified if worried about it.
I got the solution. Have some black painted plywood setup vertical for 6ft with 4ft overhang to block sun from above,.....then use laser level that produces lines and use that ! The wind cant blow a laser beam !
A 12 dollar item that squares the scope from both machined surfaces from the mount and the bottom of the scope. I bring it everywhere I bring a scoped rifle, super quick to confirm square.
Keith, what is the advantage from " 0 " gap side and torqued gap side compared to they are all set to the same gap (calipers, feeler gauges etc), Thanks.
Dosent necessarily matter, your leving the gun in tandom in a sense. Leveling the gun off the level and the reticle off the target. As long as the gun is level everything else will fall ito line
Since you're using the digital level, isn't that level with the rail? and if so, then using shims to level the scope to the rail should accomplish the same thing.
The issue with that is the electronic level might not be perfectly accurate so what he's doing is essentially calibrating the optic to be perfectly level when the digital level says the gun is level (even though the gun itself might not be perfectly level. :)
Lapping is only needed on cheaper "individual" two piece ring sets/pairs. The main reason is the center axis alignment for _one_ ring or even both rings can be off, and the way they can float independently of each other can compound things... Vs a ONE peice mounting base like shown here, where the center bore for the scope tube is cut through ONE continuous material, so there's no kinks or misalignments where it counts.
Finding eye relief varies depending on your shooting position, also. I was taught to stand and bring the rifle to your shoulder for the most accurate eye relief. Yes! You do need a second person to help you with this.
The most unforgiving eye relief you’ll have is shooting prone while at maximum magnification. That’s why most instructors will tell you to zero in that situation. Shooting while seating or standing will bring your eye closer to the ocular lens, making eye relief more forgiving.
What... No "thread locker" on the 12 cap screws?!🤔You're a brave man! I've had both mounts and caps work loose before, even _with_ proper screw prep using Acetone to clean the threads before the Loctite! I've found something that works way better than Loctite though that an old armorer told me, clear or black nail polish! It bonds MUCH better to the threads but still pops loose easy enough with the proper Allen wrench/key tools, but it also won't come loose with heat like medium strength Loctite does!
Yes, you shouldn't have an issue with them being properly torqued. But yes, thread-locking compounds need to be used correctly, typically, blue is used on 1/4" or larger threads, but smaller screws can be difficult to get the correct compound on. But yes, nail polish can be an excellent alternative.
Everything was correct on this video except for one point -- the bubble level or electronic level should NOT be a scope pic rail mount as shown. I repeat NOT. Why? The ONLY thing that matters is that the scope reticle is level when shooting, it matters NOT ONE BIT whether the RIFLE OR the PIC rail is level. You could set up the scope 45 degrees to the horizon, and as long as you cant the rifle till the scope is level with the bubble level before releasing the shot you are GOOD to go. IF you attach a bubble level to the rail, you are now constrained to the fact that the rail MUST be exactly level as well. Maybe it's not!
I totaly agree, he did it wrong, most people anathomy forces but padd to be canted, I have my rifels set up this way: I close my eyes, I take position, and when Im open Im straight up, both my sysytem and scopre reticle are leveled, when he does what he does with un adjustable butt pad, he forces him self to some kind of uncomfrotable buttpad contac. what I did was to set reticle perfectly aligned with rail, by using slide ruller to align, bottom of scope with rail (like you would measure valve clearance), since scope reticle is true to bottom of the scope and not turrents 9they are lil offset) then I was tweaking butt pad until I had perfect aligment of my reticle with string attached to tree liek in vid, then I aligned my bubble that is attached to optic, so I maintain Natural Body Position + perfect aligment) - I never had tracking issues............
No, it doesn’t matter what the rail is doing that’s just the mounting object. He leveled his scope to that bubble level so that when he’s shooting he knows if the bubbles level so is the reticle.
Good lord my dude, don't get your panties in such a bunch! In Bryan Litz's book(do you know who that is?) He suggests leveling the gun and then leveling the reticle to a plumb line and that this method will work for 99.9% of shooters and it does. I'm not saying what you said is wrong, I too mount my level on the scope and put about 2 degrees of cant in my rifle for comfort. But that wouldn't be a deal breaker for me if that was not an option. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Pretty sure MDT is just using the KISS method in this video
You missed literally the most important piece in mounting the scope so that it is level to your rifle.... it does not matter at all if your scope is level to your pic rail, your digital level, your rings, or your plum Bob. What matters is that the vertical axis of the scope when set to the center of the adjustment range runs through the vertical centerline of the bore. That is all that matters when leveling a scope. As long as the vertical components of the scope and the bore line up, then the vertical adjustments of the scope will be in-line with the bore. Then from there, you SET your level (digital or in rings) to be level. I appreciate your content, but this is a pretty big miss.
@@urgamecshk It's not the same. The rail could be misaligned with the vertical axis of the bore. You are stacking tolerances by relying on the levelness of the rail. 1) The mounting location of the rail might be misaligned. 2) The mounting screws might be misaligned. 3) The rail itself might not be perfectly plum. 4) The interface between the rings and the rail might not be aligned. That's just off the top of my head. I'm not saying that what they did won't work for most shooters.... it certainly will. But this is a PRECISION shooting channel and company. Stacking that many tolerances is not precise. Here are the steps to properly align the vertical axis of the bore and scope: 1. Adjust the scope to the center of the windage adjustment. 2. Loosely mount the scope with the desired eye relief. 3. Align the centerline of the bore as close as possible to the plumb-bob line. 4. Rotate the rifle around the bore until the center of the crosshairs touches the plumb-bob line (confirm bore is centered still). 5. Rotate the scope until the vertical post is aligned with the plumb-bob. 6. Tighten it down and confirm that it has not moved. That is the proper way to "level" a scope. It does not matter if the scope is "level" to the arbitrary level that you mount to your chassis/rail/rings/scope. All that matters is that the centerline of the bore and the vertical axis of the scope are co-linear. That way any adjustment in elevation does not produce an angular difference. - A professional engineer with a background in highly precise robotics.
@Slate264 look down the bore and visually cut the bore in half with the plumb-bob. Or you can use an appropriately sized bore laser and line up the laser with the line. I don't use bore lasers so I can't say for certain that they are accurate enough.
@@MrGT3 ok I understand. so in your opinion, a visual approximation of a very small bore cut in half by a string while looking down the barrel is more accurate than a c&c machine cut parts than can hold extremely high tolerances, even if you stacking them?
Decent method for a bench shooter rifle. But not really necessary for big game hunting rifle since a plumb rifle held by a hunter is never truly plump so why go to this extent to level the reticle to that “unplumbed” held rifle?
Must say mdt i iam so disappointed in your product i have a ess and wen i got it it was scratch i have a xrs also wen i got that it was scratch now i have both the wood kit for xrs are you not ashamed look in this videos there is marks on hand grip not happy love your product but please spend some more time one Quilty control in south Africa your products is not cheap and if we buy mdt please make sure produc is not scratch
Eye relief is ALSO not set to get a "clear picture". You want a small but consistent black ring around the edges of the scope. This mitigates any parallax errors and ensures that your eye is positioned in the same spot every time you get behind glass. You CANNOT do this if you set it to get a clear picture!
all the ways to mount a scope that involve levels are WRONG. the plumb line is only used for adjusting your scope mounted level to read level. the reticle should always be aligned with the bore, all the expensive levels in the world cant guarantee that the vertical crosshair will intersect the centerline of the bore when leveled using the receiver and levels for reference. which is why most people experience shots drifting left or right past their zero, because the vertical crosshair is not aligned with the bore. the mirror method is your friend. (not the mirror method used to find the optical center of a scopes adjustment)
During my military aviation service SOP was to step torque in thirds to final value, wait five minutes while periodically giving the torqued fastener(s) light raps with the handle of a screwdriver to relieve "torque tension" and then give a final torque at final value then safety tie if required with either copper or stainless steel safety wire.
I hang the string on the wall at about 25 feet and shine a flashlight through the scope. It projects the reticle onto the string.
Easily the dumbest suggestion ive ever heard.
@TheDilweedI’m ocd, I used a plumb bob, laser bore sighter, and drew a leveled cross on my door with a laser level then checked it with my carpenters level, drew a permanent cross with that, then checked each one individually making sure they all Naturally lined up together and then sighted it that way. Then I got on my roof, shot a dandelion off its stem 150 yards away, the police came, had to explain it was just a pellet gun. Good times.
@Yettiattackwhy?
@Yettiattack why?
Thats a beautiful rifle perfect mix of wood and metal
Very cool. Im obsessive with my scopes being level. You can also hang a plumb behind the scope and shine a flashlight through the objective lens and use the shadow of the crosshairs the same way.
I have 2 lri levels and I can't wait for them to get back in stock so I can get another one.
Thanks for all the innovative products
A Starrett sliding parallel level under the flat of the scope and on top of the pic rail works. Put some tension on the screws, purposely cant the scope a tad and when you open up the machinist parallel, the scope will rotate until full contact is made with the parallel surface, both on the pic rail and under the scope body. Has worked for me all these years.
My 2¢ on another way to level a scope to rifle.
I like those wood pieces for the MDT XRS
I might be wrong here, but it looks like the stick hanging from the string is touching the ground as it angles off. Wouldn't that throw the string out of plumb? Obviously a small amount over the length of that string, but still, precision! Lol
As long as there is some weight on the string, it should be fine, any partial weight will pull the string straight down, you don't want that weight completely off ground swinging anyways. Strings can only pull, they cannot push ;-)
But, if the weight is completely on the ground and dragging the string to the side, that's another story.
@@michaeldoe4805 Pythagoras disagrees
I meant to respond to you Bolt.22, look at my response to your "out of plumb" comment. (Laser level)
A good way to avoid swing or deviation of the plumb is to set the weight to dip into a bucket of water without touching the edges
@@PabloBja smart
On my last scope mounting instead of leveling the scope to a level rifle I leveled the scope to gravity while the rifle was most comfortable to me (canted to right) .
So far zero regrets.
Correct.
That will not work at long range.
@@arminkowitz2726yes it works fine. He levelled the scope to gravity(plumb bob or whatever). His technique produces a small windage error but is small enough to ignore and can be verified if worried about it.
Thank you for sharing your expertise
Which scope camera is that?
I got the solution. Have some black painted plywood setup vertical for 6ft with 4ft overhang to block sun from above,.....then use laser level that produces lines and use that ! The wind cant blow a laser beam !
MDT Good Stuff
Where do you get one of these levels?
Probly, if not, fer sure - the best scope mounting video made. The one-piece mount looks Awesome !! - Need !!!
Do you do a tall target test?
A 12 dollar item that squares the scope from both machined surfaces from the mount and the bottom of the scope. I bring it everywhere I bring a scoped rifle, super quick to confirm square.
Link?
@@oscarmacho2798arisaka makes one
@@oscarmacho2798Arisaka makes a product that does this, not sure the price
Are you sure, you dont want to buy all of his fancy tools?
How far away is the plumb bob? I normally try to go out like 30 yards. Does the distance matter on the Plumb Bob?
3:44
@@rifleshooterchannel208 thank you
Keith, what is the advantage from " 0 " gap side and torqued gap side compared to they are all set to the same gap (calipers, feeler gauges etc), Thanks.
The main advantage is to level the scope out easier
How many yards away was the plumb bob?
Does not matter as long as you can get your parallax down to adjust, I set a plumb line at 8 yards or so works fine.
50 yards
Ive always wondered how off the chassis/rail is. After all thats the basis that we level every scope we put on. Would make for a great video
Dosent necessarily matter, your leving the gun in tandom in a sense. Leveling the gun off the level and the reticle off the target. As long as the gun is level everything else will fall ito line
What sensitivity do you run the long range arms level?
Most of us run out of the box, which is .6 degrees.
@@MDTTAC cool. That’s what I run. Was just checking.
@@MDTTAC Could I get a T&E of that level. That's really cool.
@@m4rvinmartian Yes, you sure can, there is only a small one time fee:)
What kind of torq wrench is he using on the ring bases to the action?
Vortex torque wrench
The one you used for 25 inch pound and then you used 65 inch pound
Since you're using the digital level, isn't that level with the rail? and if so, then using shims to level the scope to the rail should accomplish the same thing.
The issue with that is the electronic level might not be perfectly accurate so what he's doing is essentially calibrating the optic to be perfectly level when the digital level says the gun is level (even though the gun itself might not be perfectly level. :)
If you have a laser level that works great as well
Am I crazy or the sky? Looks like John Goodman😂
I'd say the sky is crazy.
@@Xiox321 lol 😂 I mean to say this guy looks like John Goodman the actor. I was driving stupid Siri spell it wrong
I always do like this.
You guys don't have a storefront, right? Do you have a dealer or store you recommend for anyone coming in to do some serious shopping?
Everything is on their website. Easy.
What about centering the reticle to the bore?
You'd fuck your scope up with the first shot if you manage to centre your reticle with the bore
@@j.e.honiball1327 lol!
An now we know. Thanks 👍 😊
😳I have to salute MDT for its ability in attract all the idiots that are forking over almost $400 for a $70 - $85 product.👍🏾
Why don't you use the Wheeler system?
What type of side level
That is the MDT LRA MV3 Electronic level.
It's like $250 ,to rich for my budget. 😢
I don’t think zero gap rings are that unique, Barrett has been doing it for over a decade.
Rather than use a plumb bob I use a laser level that projects a vertical beam. It's self leveling and doesn't swing endlessly.
I was NOT expecting MDT to recommend a plumb bob to mount a scope....outside in the wind nonetheless. That's just bonkers
Tall Target Test. Gotta do it.
No one was confused by MDT's suggestion to put grease on the picatinny rail?
No, he explained exactly why he did it.
Area 419 in one of their vid's also covers why they too recommend doing this.
why didn't lap the rings
No lapping is required on the MDT Scope rings.
Lapping is only needed on cheaper "individual" two piece ring sets/pairs. The main reason is the center axis alignment for _one_ ring or even both rings can be off, and the way they can float independently of each other can compound things... Vs a ONE peice mounting base like shown here, where the center bore for the scope tube is cut through ONE continuous material, so there's no kinks or misalignments where it counts.
You haven't achieved perfect level, Morty!
It all starts with the rifle being level. Any cant to it, the rest doesn’t matter.
I use a laser level at home
Finding eye relief varies depending on your shooting position, also.
I was taught to stand and bring the rifle to your shoulder for the most accurate eye relief.
Yes! You do need a second person to help you with this.
That would be the most accurate way to find it if you will be shooting from the standing position.
The most unforgiving eye relief you’ll have is shooting prone while at maximum magnification. That’s why most instructors will tell you to zero in that situation.
Shooting while seating or standing will bring your eye closer to the ocular lens, making eye relief more forgiving.
@@VincitOmniaVeritas7This matches my experience as well.
What... No "thread locker" on the 12 cap screws?!🤔You're a brave man! I've had both mounts and caps work loose before, even _with_ proper screw prep using Acetone to clean the threads before the Loctite! I've found something that works way better than Loctite though that an old armorer told me, clear or black nail polish! It bonds MUCH better to the threads but still pops loose easy enough with the proper Allen wrench/key tools, but it also won't come loose with heat like medium strength Loctite does!
Yes, you shouldn't have an issue with them being properly torqued. But yes, thread-locking compounds need to be used correctly, typically, blue is used on 1/4" or larger threads, but smaller screws can be difficult to get the correct compound on. But yes, nail polish can be an excellent alternative.
👍👍
Everything was correct on this video except for one point -- the bubble level or electronic level should NOT be a scope pic rail mount as shown.
I repeat NOT. Why?
The ONLY thing that matters is that the scope reticle is level when shooting, it matters NOT ONE BIT whether the RIFLE OR the PIC rail is level. You could set up the scope 45 degrees to the horizon, and as long as you cant the rifle till the scope is level with the bubble level before releasing the shot you are GOOD to go.
IF you attach a bubble level to the rail, you are now constrained to the fact that the rail MUST be exactly level as well. Maybe it's not!
I totaly agree, he did it wrong, most people anathomy forces but padd to be canted, I have my rifels set up this way: I close my eyes, I take position, and when Im open Im straight up, both my sysytem and scopre reticle are leveled, when he does what he does with un adjustable butt pad, he forces him self to some kind of uncomfrotable buttpad contac.
what I did was to set reticle perfectly aligned with rail, by using slide ruller to align, bottom of scope with rail (like you would measure valve clearance), since scope reticle is true to bottom of the scope and not turrents 9they are lil offset)
then I was tweaking butt pad until I had perfect aligment of my reticle with string attached to tree liek in vid, then I aligned my bubble that is attached to optic, so I maintain Natural Body Position + perfect aligment) - I never had tracking issues............
No, it doesn’t matter what the rail is doing that’s just the mounting object. He leveled his scope to that bubble level so that when he’s shooting he knows if the bubbles level so is the reticle.
Good lord my dude, don't get your panties in such a bunch! In Bryan Litz's book(do you know who that is?) He suggests leveling the gun and then leveling the reticle to a plumb line and that this method will work for 99.9% of shooters and it does. I'm not saying what you said is wrong, I too mount my level on the scope and put about 2 degrees of cant in my rifle for comfort. But that wouldn't be a deal breaker for me if that was not an option. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Pretty sure MDT is just using the KISS method in this video
Dang to much work, and alot of fancy equipment. If you can afford it buy it right? Good video
You missed literally the most important piece in mounting the scope so that it is level to your rifle.... it does not matter at all if your scope is level to your pic rail, your digital level, your rings, or your plum Bob.
What matters is that the vertical axis of the scope when set to the center of the adjustment range runs through the vertical centerline of the bore. That is all that matters when leveling a scope. As long as the vertical components of the scope and the bore line up, then the vertical adjustments of the scope will be in-line with the bore.
Then from there, you SET your level (digital or in rings) to be level.
I appreciate your content, but this is a pretty big miss.
That's why they level the rail...
@@urgamecshk It's not the same. The rail could be misaligned with the vertical axis of the bore. You are stacking tolerances by relying on the levelness of the rail. 1) The mounting location of the rail might be misaligned. 2) The mounting screws might be misaligned. 3) The rail itself might not be perfectly plum. 4) The interface between the rings and the rail might not be aligned. That's just off the top of my head.
I'm not saying that what they did won't work for most shooters.... it certainly will. But this is a PRECISION shooting channel and company. Stacking that many tolerances is not precise.
Here are the steps to properly align the vertical axis of the bore and scope:
1. Adjust the scope to the center of the windage adjustment.
2. Loosely mount the scope with the desired eye relief.
3. Align the centerline of the bore as close as possible to the plumb-bob line.
4. Rotate the rifle around the bore until the center of the crosshairs touches the plumb-bob line (confirm bore is centered still).
5. Rotate the scope until the vertical post is aligned with the plumb-bob.
6. Tighten it down and confirm that it has not moved.
That is the proper way to "level" a scope. It does not matter if the scope is "level" to the arbitrary level that you mount to your chassis/rail/rings/scope. All that matters is that the centerline of the bore and the vertical axis of the scope are co-linear. That way any adjustment in elevation does not produce an angular difference.
- A professional engineer with a background in highly precise robotics.
@@MrGT3 can you explain again how you line up center of the bore to the plum line? Was alittle confused by your step#3
@Slate264 look down the bore and visually cut the bore in half with the plumb-bob.
Or you can use an appropriately sized bore laser and line up the laser with the line. I don't use bore lasers so I can't say for certain that they are accurate enough.
@@MrGT3 ok I understand. so in your opinion, a visual approximation of a very small bore cut in half by a string while looking down the barrel is more accurate than a c&c machine cut parts than can hold extremely high tolerances, even if you stacking them?
You guys lied to me. I did this method and I still suck.
Decent method for a bench shooter rifle. But not really necessary for big game hunting rifle since a plumb rifle held by a hunter is never truly plump so why go to this extent to level the reticle to that “unplumbed” held rifle?
Must say mdt i iam so disappointed in your product i have a ess and wen i got it it was scratch i have a xrs also wen i got that it was scratch now i have both the wood kit for xrs are you not ashamed look in this videos there is marks on hand grip not happy love your product but please spend some more time one Quilty control in south Africa your products is not cheap and if we buy mdt please make sure produc is not scratch
We are sorry to hear you have had this experience. We will make sure to pass this on to our team.
Eye relief is ALSO not set to get a "clear picture". You want a small but consistent black ring around the edges of the scope. This mitigates any parallax errors and ensures that your eye is positioned in the same spot every time you get behind glass.
You CANNOT do this if you set it to get a clear picture!
If you're using a quality scope, you can dial out the parallax so no need for a scope shadow.
all the ways to mount a scope that involve levels are WRONG.
the plumb line is only used for adjusting your scope mounted level to read level.
the reticle should always be aligned with the bore,
all the expensive levels in the world cant guarantee that the vertical crosshair will intersect the centerline of the bore when leveled using the receiver and levels for reference.
which is why most people experience shots drifting left or right past their zero,
because the vertical crosshair is not aligned with the bore.
the mirror method is your friend.
(not the mirror method used to find the optical center of a scopes adjustment)
Very bad advice.