Otzdarva Vs Tru3Ta1ent ...but it's 2024
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- Опубліковано 30 лип 2024
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Otz: • Otz & Tru3 discuss DBD...
Tru3: • TRU3TA1ENT VS OTZDARVA...
In this DBD video we're going to look back in time to 2021 when Otz and True Talent debated over Dead By Daylight. It'll be interesting how these topics have or haven't evolved over the years. This was recorded before SBMM was added to the game.
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Chapters:
00:00 Intro
04:21 Is DBD Survivor Sided or Killer Sided?
14:14 Gen Speeds
20:50 Hooks Versus Kills
29:58 MMR and Hooks Vs Kills
1:01:34 Are Win Streaks Unhealthy?
1:16:31 MMR System Debate
1:25:27 Game Balance
1:32:31 Ruin Undying Debate
1:46:20 What Should Change About DBD?
1:54:03 Discussing BHVR
1:07:46 Conclusion - Ігри
One of the major things I've come to agree with Tru3 on is altruism and protection hits. I used to appreciate a good team of Survivors that could work together to protect a vulnerable team mate but nowadays altruism is a completely different monster. There's nothing fun about having a "Background Player" ninja that gets a pallet rescue from 50 miles away with almost zero counterplay. I'd love to do another debate about all of these topics.
I would absolutely love another debate type video !
Hi Otz, this is friends
Yes, 100% I think you'd both have new perspective on things that could bring light to some problematic issues with the game still. I really hope this happens.
I agree, maybe have it be more organized for efficiency
true predicted the future about MMR as well. He was a soothsayer.
"I included timestamps because the video is very very long"
**laugh in otz tierlist**
Tru3Ta1ent Opinions make more sense as time goes by
i've been saying this. a lot of what tru3 says is good for the game and it makes sense, but he has this weird "hate" brigade from people (mostly survivors who dont like hearing the truth).
@@rryyddeerr He often has a correct stance because he plays the game A LOT and sees issues but he can't a.) pinpoint the actual issue rather than the general what is wrong and b.) expresses his opinion in a really smug way or makes jabs at opposing views. He's also VERY convinced he's always correct and minimizes/strawmans opposing opinion. I think he's got a good feeling for the idea of what is wrong in the balance. I think he's not a bad player either. But he's got a meh attitude when it comes to specific and that puts people off.
@@aiu941 I mean wouldn't you be smug if you've made valid points that everyone dismisses and it came to be true years later? Especially when its happening over and over
@@rryyddeerrI see where you’re coming from, but just because someone has a more understandable reason to do a poor action doesn’t mean that they should have done that action to begin with.
@@kalamitus2269 Being smug isn't a poor action though, especially if it's warranted.
"It's a bit like chess." aged so well
I've been saying this for almost 5 years now, tru3's takes on the game are right. It's only gonna be once the game is dead and buried that people believe it. People too busy jumping on the hate wagon
He does it to himself with how he behaves, and some of his takes are just crazy. That being said I don’t think he’s wrong about everything and has some good points, but the most important part about making a change is making people WANT that change with your words, and he doesn’t know how to do that
@@firestar1230 Can you blame him tho? When your suggestions fall on deaf ears for years and then people see the things you complain about coming to fruition, over and over and over. How do you deal with that?
@@rryyddeerr Not by doing it in a way that nobody outside of your circle listens to you, that’s for sure. The solution isn’t to be an asshole, it’s to have thick skin and still try to appeal to people
@@firestar1230 being an asshole how? Any examples?
@@firestar1230you and everyone sound like a puszy. Grow up, Even if I don’t like someone. I can understand they right and won’t let me feel get the bests of me, to understand this is what bests for the game.
I remember watching this when it first happened and at the time i had heard that tru was a terrible person so i thought he sounded smug.
I then watched some of his streams and videos to understand him better and realized he just wanted the game to be the best version of itself.
The dbd community creeps on killer mains
That's how Twitch streamers treat the killer mains
Nah redditors just hate blunt and strong men
I hate how these bullies will gang harrass True nonstop with hate and a barrage of nasty comments and insults and when True (like most people) stands up for himself against the amount of hate he gets. Everyone is shocked.
The people going out of their way to harrass and try to annoy or hurt True are the a holes. True most of the time is just standing up for himself.
Tru isn't a terrible person but he definitely feels he is superior in a lot of ways. It's been a couple of years since I watched him avidly so he could have changed. I hope so as his comments and thoughts on how to improve the game I generally agreed with.
I don't get the True hate.
I like both guys and I dont know if his improved but i watch a lot of True clips and he constantly calls survivors good when he feels challenged. He sometimes says "nice" when a survivor escapes him.
Most of his frustrations are with devs and balancing and i think the only time he gets annoyed is when people are spiteful to him just to be spiteful all because he has a opinion about some balancing on the game and i dont blame him. His human, most humans getting that amount of unnecessary obsessive hate from strangers will at times get defensive. Especially if they are desperately trying to slander his whole character over it by making out his things that he clearly isn't.
SpookNJukes i think did a good video on TrueTalent
The guy in my opinion. Isnt as bad as his made out to be.
i mean i definitely get the tru3 hate, but i agree with you he's vastly overhated
He's not it's a witch hunt from survivor mains who have no idea how the other side is played
The problem was how often he likens the top .001% of Survivors as the normal experience. You can see a bit of this cropping up during his complaints about winstreaks. A winstreak (back then under Rank based matchmaking) included a large range of Survivor skill and sweat levels. Now you get the same MMR, but you don't know if someone skilled or tooled their way to victory.
In addition his generalizations on stream are things like 'yeah it was a sweaty SWF, I had no chance', then someone checked their accounts and it was a duo and 2 solos, with the one of the duo people having sub-500 hrs. 80-99% of his matches are easily winnable if he were as good as he claimed, but he gets tilted and blames everything and everyone else for his failings.
Balancing for hooks instead of Kills is obviously better, but what if I said you had to only play with 3 people in the party when SWFing but still needed 5 gens at 90s. Most of his follow ups on his streams has such bizarre statements to that extreme (if not that specific example).
Why is he hated?
They envy that he is good looking on top of being intelligent while also knowing what he's talking about. So when you have all those things going for you. People like Scott get envious and start drama online because they know they can't do anything physically where it counts.
It's wild this is still relevant today due to the gameplay loop barely changing.
I'm more shocked at your surprise.
Why can't DBD just show the MMR value/points?
This would help many discussion come to end
I hate not seeing my rank in any game.
BHVR probably wants people to think they're of higher rank than they truly are.
I'm assuming that if people knew how bad they are, they might quit. If they saw how bad other survivors are, they might leave lobbies. If they saw opposing survivors, they might back out. They are more scared of what MIGHT happen.
@@Wastingsometimehere I want to know what MY rank is, there is no reason why I shouldn't know how good I am compared to the average.
@@MegaMinecrafteFan Same, but my point is they are cowardly about this.
Trutalent was so spot on
It’s true,
His whole point was to find any solution that’ll be more beneficial in the future for dbd in terms of balance and ideas, then we can start getting into the more detailed stuff. He just wanted an honest and the most reliable source of information for the games health down the road.
But people think he was just ignorant because they were throwing, what abouts and what ifs and just being difficult and indifferent with him
it's really surprising that anyone thinks so. maybe I just don't respect his opinions cause of how he is
@sj_milk_ That's exactly. He's got a good message he just fumbles it with his shitty attitude and constant complaints about the game.
His complaints are valid, but as a streamers u can't really do that as much as he does.
@@sj_milk_ please explain "how he is" tell me you don't watch him more... Lol what in the echo chamber are you on about
I’m more of a fan of Otz but I admit he seemed to talk over True too often for my taste. Maybe it’s because he’s not used to having these debates/discussions and is used to being the only voice while making his content but it came off as rude to me and you can see the frustration on True’s face multiple times as he struggles to hold onto his thoughts while Otz finishes his monologue lol
Absolutely, and it's very obvious when watching it back that I did not do a good job at keeping my points brief. It's something I've tried to improve at after doing more and more collabs with other creators.
@@notOtzdarvawas not expecting a reply from the man himself! I didn’t mean to sound so harsh with it especially being a fan and enjoying your content, just also a fan of good debate and this still ended up being a really good discussion.
Wait it was 3 years ago!? I’m feeling old.
me too....
1:01:38 How you would do this is make a slightly different version of dying light base kit. So take dying light, remive the obsession component entirely so it applues to and from all 4 survivors, then if a survivor dies you lose all the tokens from that survivor. You woukd also front load the token. By that I mean your first hook on that survivor slows down gen repair by say 8%, then hook 2 is 2%, then hook 3 you lose the first 2 tokens.
This incentives hooks, it disincentivises tunneling, strongly disincentives camping, and rewards spreading out hooks
My main take on True’s stance; I agree - the whole point of what he’s saying is to have killers WANT to go for hooks compared to the camping/slugging going for kills play-style, so that we can get more accurate, organized and more healthy DATA to observe how the game can be balanced more smoothly.
Therefore; being able to address more detailed and convoluted problems so that we maximize more unique/fun play styles without any much unnecessary trouble shooting and unnecessary skews for balancing.
He just wants to Maximize FUN while correlating balance accordingly, however; it’s best to hash out things efficiently with the best data we can conceive.
You 100% get it man.
It's sad that people don't understand how accurate him and many others are and see it as "crying" or whatever excuse they use. Most of those people never play killer so honestly shouldn't even be invited into the conversation. If you play both you see fast where the issues are.
I've always been a fan of tru3. He is not afraid to call things out whether it be on survivor or killer. Very blunt. I'm don't mind otz but he is like the complete opposite 😂
I like Otz objective polite View he try to look from every perspective and not start a argument in favour of one side.
Before watching this. I think it's unbelievable that it's 2024 and Corrupt Intervention is still not base kit. Base kit borrowed time solved stupid camp plays. And I strongly believe that base kit Corrupt would solve another important issue in dbd: survivors spawning on top of gens and gens flying... not to mention hexes...
based comment
I had a game on eyrie yesterday where the first gen got done in about 30 seconds. Funny thing is another gen was almost 50% also. I think they were a troll gen rush squad though as they all brought bps and were saying "defend gens better" and "skill issue"😂
LITERALLY
As mostly Surv im fine if the Corupt basekit is exactly like Corupt ingame deactivate if a Surv get downed.
I'd rather all the survivors spawn together 100% of the time. It wouldn't buy as much time or grant as much lethality as Corrupt, but it would make matches a lot more consistent.
they just had another debate 2 days ago! you must have sparked this!
It’s a good thing they didn’t meet in a parking lot to fight, I’d hate to watch True get looped for 5 gens irl
Buddy Otzdarva literally has no testosterone in his balls. His little neck is at risk of snapping every time he turns his head.
@@N99622not everyone can be a Chad like you 😂😅 🤣
You gotta be joking. Otz is a fragile scrawny dude who would piss his pants vs Tru
You sound like a wimp @@Daventry85
Hens would be there to save otz
Tru3 was right
Yup now since otz got his way all the killers tunnel at 5 gens to secure kills
Otz says what ppl wanna hear. tru3 says how things are whether you like it or not. thats why i like tru3 a lot more. he is honest.
*EPIC RАРЕ BATTLE OF HISTORY!*
*OTZdarva!* 😮
_vs_
FREDDY FAZBEAR 🐻
BEGIN! 🎉
Rap*
This one right here officer
I think you uh.... I think you need to drop an E, bro.
🎵Raping vs Rapping happens way too commonly 🎵
Otzdarva clears
True is the only guy i watch when it comes to killer changes, recently i have notice every creator are very biased towards survivor because everyone will start harassing those creator on twitter if they say anything positive related to survivor nerf. Scott is a prime example, guy plays pig once a month against bad survivor and says how pig nerf was a buff ( during ptb ).
holy shit I caught this early. Before watching this. My initial take on their discussion was Otz being butthurt about defending his streak and was unable to see what true was saying. True is right, the game would be better if it was centered around hooks not kills. Ill update this after watching this, I could be remembering it wrong. Also this is coming from someone whos not the biggest true fan and likes otz
true is wrong about some things, but he is also right about others. hardly anyone wanted to give him the time of day when the true vs otz debate was happening. then there was the spat between true and scott jund, where true was in the wrong there for trying to incredibly nerf swfs, and people ran with it to discredit true. but he was right, the game shouldve been balanced around hook states and not kills.
My Problem With Having Hooks Being The Win Condition Over Kills Is That It Would Create A Lot Of Mass Confusion Over Who Actually Won. Say You Have All 4 Survivors Escape, But The Killer Has 8 Hooks. With The Hook Win Condition, The Killer Would Be Declared The Victor Even Though He Didn't Get Any Kills. It Would Feel Terrible If Everyone Had Escaped Only To Find Out That The Killer Won Anyway. It Would Also Not Be A Good Feeling For The Killer As They Wouldn't Feel Like They Actually Won. Killer Wins Would Feel Like Participation Awards Over Actual Wins.
@@MimikyuDiscipleThats almost a tie maybe a slight loss to killer mmr slight boost to survivor. You barely escape you dont deserve the full reward of mmr boost but your whole team did so a slight boost. Killer did well enough to get 8 hooks but didnt secure kills. So they should slightly lose mmr but only slightly. Devs are way off on how they treat wins and losses
@@MimikyuDisciple this is how i typically play killer; try to 8 hook everyone and let them all go. imo its more rewarding than being able to get 5 kills at 4 gens. so even though the game thinks i lost, i definitely won. but overall, as choy said, the best thing would be to implement both: let kills still be the win/loss condition, but give killers more of a reason to spread hooks. right now, the game teaches noob killers that the person who just got off the hook is the most vulnerable and is therefore the easiest target. there needs to be something to discourage that and encourage chasing someone new, and not just blood points.
@@ArchDethKreation I Don't See That As A Tie. If I'm Playing A Role Called Killer And I Don't Kill The Survivors, I'm Not Going To See That As A Win. If I Barely Escaped With My Life As A Survivor I'm Not Going To See That As A Loss. If I Don't End Up Killing The Survivors But I Got 8 Hooks, I'm Going To End Up Thinking I'm Doing Something Wrong.
Wait this was 2021? It feels like it was much longer ago.
Even though tournaments have different rulesets they still work in the conversation because the rulesets in tournaments actually FAVOR killers heavily and yet it's still very rare to see a killer other than Blight/Nurse 4k while spreading hooks. Tournament rules, for the most part, work to restrict the survivors.
4:22 They have those rules BECAUSE of the heavy imbalance. Nurse and blight aside and maybe a couple of others, if there were no rules at all, no killer outside of those would have any chance at all. Thats the purpose of the rules. The few rules on the killers side is just to compensate for those rules implemented on survivor side
The tournaments change it because of how one sided it is without restrictions
You absolutely can use comp matches to talk about balance. The reason the matches have completly different rules is because at high level play the game is so survivor sided you have to have different rules because the survivors would almost always win. All the top comp teams agree with this. Because they have to change the rules is an argument for tru3 that the game is super unbalanced at high level play.
99% of games are not comp games
@@dryanaa4474Absolutely, still these problems exist in high mmr.
if we go the team protection route there would need to be a massive reward for protecting a team mate, like why would i protect XX_randomsurvivor420_XX when there not only no incentive to but theres also no incentive for them to help me back, ive died so many times helping randoms just for them to leave me behind to die which then leads me to not wanting to help people anymore
I think something that people kinda dont acknowledge is that Otz's points do actually make a lot of sense but he's just not a good speaker in debates. I know a lot of smart people who look stupid in debates because debate is so much different than you having your own notes you've read up on and had time to prepare. I think Otz generally has better points but he kinda gets flustered because he's not good im debates. Obviously not discrediting Tru3 but i think a lot of people should acknowledge that fact
Holy shit a 2 hour Choy video? 🍿
Well yes… but no
Randomly watched again this video a month ago. Here we go again!
Instead of a built in ruin or pop, wouldnt a base kit scourge hook to incentive hooks. Makes more sense especially for the argument tru3 is making.
Great epilogue. I took the time and rewatched. Spot on about how relevant it still is, sadly. Too little action(or WAY OVER-the-top smashing of all things killer) by behavior seems to be the common thread. Ruin from 200% cut in half to 100%,....oh that's not enough, ruin must self destruct too. Meanwhile, DS from 5 to 3 seconds,....wait let me wave my hands like a magician and threaten to buff and watch reactions. They think we are that dumb not to see that? 😂
It's amazing how four years can give a huge retrospective on what these guys were saying. Thank you for doing this, Choy!
three*
i wish they discuss about it again soon
One of the things I think about the Hooks/kills debate is that Tru has identified an actual problem, but his solution only works.... because of the state of things. It's completely true killers having the objective of "get kills" does prompt them to optimize the fun out of the game.
The idea that's trying to be solved here is trying to find something that would make kills want to elongate the game.
IF the incentive were to be based around hooks, what I think would be thematically interesting if spreading the hooks out would confer some benefit to killer and disadvantage to survivors.
If at least every survivor has been hooked once, the entity will slow all generator progression
If at least every survivor has been hooked twice, the entity will ... something something.
It's happening again, round 2 guys. Sunday 31st of March.
I like playing for hooks (plays casual both sides)
It’s a lot harder but so satisfying when I do get a 4 k
And the extra Bloodpoints are nice too
I gotta admit I’ve always sided with tru on this debate.
And I still do,
He knows the average killer player is not skillful like Otz and tru but because it’s easier to play survivor, killers have a much harder time.
He tells you how it is wether you like it or not
i agree. He tries to speak objective truth no matter how harsh it may be.
Wish more people would be willing to hear it.
no only in DBD, but in life too
The Part with easier is not true its less stressful yea but not easier you still need same skill on both side to be good.
The difference Killer is the entire game on max stress lvl and Surv you have gen moments to cool down, but it can be way more frustating if your teammates do something wrong which you can't control you must trust ppl so your game has only 25% control and 75% trust
On Killer side all you do is on your own, every move every mistake, 100% control, your skill have more value
@@muysli.y1855 i get your point.
but the thing is - if 3 teammates played bad and your team loses - it's kinda fair that this team lost.
but in situation where both survivor and killer played a perfect game without making any mistakes - killer loses
is it fair for killer to lose a game where they played without any mistakes?
of course no one plays perfect, but it sounds like it's very hard for killer to win if survivors are good enough
@@carmalt Literally impossible for both sides to make no mistakes.
Survivor gameplay is to force mistakes, outside of gens and power side objectives.
It's harder to try to make a killer miss a hit, than to hit someone attempting.
Killer also is a constant, while survivors get removed from gameplay and then the game, over time. With Slugs, being Hooked, Death, and even the wiggle phase for 99% of times picked up.
The argument for "3 out of 4 played bad" so all 4 have to lose, is wrong. In Call Of Duty sure... Not a Survival game where teamwork helps the objective and some side objectives. If 3 made alot of mistakes, and I didn't, and got forced with NWO and a closed hatch...My only win condition is waiting the 2 minutes for EGC, and wasting the Killer's time too.
There is no way to tell if there is NWO prior to activating, so it's not even a mistake. Just a horribly designed perk.
@@RedrumZombies Teamwork matters you are right. But if 3 teammates on your team don't do any teamwork then of course your team loses. you might escape escape but even in that case it's a loss for your team as a whole.
it may be unfair for you individually to have to take this loss because your team is bad, but it's a matchmaking problem then.
Same as if you play any other game that requires you to work as a team. mobas, shooters, other asymmetrical PvP games.
it's impossible to play a perfect game. But it is possible to make 1-2 mistakes as killer and lose a game against survivors who did 6-8 mistakes.
idk why but this reminded me of the Tru3 v Scott feud lol
Dunno why ppl even watches scott. His takes are just, if i don't enjoy something it needs change but if i enjoy something it doesn't fk other ppl opinion.
1:58:50 They are not gonna buff Freddy Choy. Yes he has a 1 % pickrate but he had a 63 % killrate.They nerfed Pig (who had a 61 % kilrate but a 2 % pickrate) but then reverted some of the changes because of the massive backlash from the community. Freddy will get nerfed considering most of his matches he gets a 4k and this is coming from a Freddy main.
Make a game mode where the most popular perks (top 32 perks) were classes and had a second set of perks you could pick (perks after 32nd most popular). For a total of 8 perks.
I always wondered why end game slowed down just because someone got downed or hooked or why it wouldn't be spicy and start as soon as gens get powered. 😂
Why does Otz have this mindset of "team" there is no team points or team rewards.
I'm 13K hours in dbd a real problem when Killer goes against SwF 4 or 3 bring an offering map and huge bodyblocking. and headphones mic 😂 free perk let them gen rush you crazzy . you can tell this match not going good for you and they should let dying light basic
Surprisingly otz sounds like a killer main & true sounds like a survivor main here.
I think dbds win con should be a fear meter that climbs and falls throughout the match going for hooks and chases increases fear teamwork and survival decreases it and the idea is to get out untraumatized or to end the game with survivors beat up and traumatized
Talking about Freddy early on in the video, I think he’s just too weak. The difference between someone like him and The Unknown is incredible, one is so much better than the other and it’s just so hard to balance around that difference lol. Nowadays I just look at Freddy and think, I can play very below average against this guy and still win because Freddy just hasn’t got the skill ceiling to win. How do you even make that guy viable
tru3 is right
Top level mmr is still the same. Survivors have the advantage.
What i wish for this game is more chase orientated.
Less anti-looping Power (higher cd on Killer) slower gens (120s)
Removing Bloodlust T3 and make T1 once you Archive you not losing it. Some number changes.
Games would go longer than 10min but it would feel less stressful on both side and more fun for chase.
I'd also add more mindgameable loops. Some loops and setups are incredibly strong, by simply running in circles.
The reality is instead of blaming players, content creators, perks, ect. for the gameplay we need to blame THE DEVS for all the issues in the game. They are the ones who allow it. The devs get off so easy because everyone is so busy fighting amongst each other.
As long time member of BHVR interactive team, I can assure you that we analized every second of this video and drew quite few conclusions. We are already talking with our balancing team and it's safe to assume we are going to implement some ideas from the past to current day Dead by Daylight in order to fix long lasting issues. I'm happy to announce that we are nerfing pig again.
(love your vids and yes it's a joke)
I appreciate both of these streamers. Their love and passion for the game is infectious. I definitely lean more toward Tru3 but i highly respect Otdz. They remind me Magneto and Xavier. Lol. Bully to both of you.
I’m sorry but it’s kind of cringe how otz thinks, but hey that’s all part of a debate
The tunnelling can't be any more true in 2024. It is true the killers dominates at low MMR. Killers will tunnel a survivor out and most games will end up being a 3v1 and it will not be worth it for survivors to continue playing anymore. I think I agree killer should be based on hooks not killers and survivor MMR should be based on emblem points not escapes. I feel a team death match game mode will help eliminate the aspects of the game which a lot of survivors find boring. You have 1 killer and 4 survivors on each team. Each team plays the same killer basically whichever team has more survivors standing wins
Killers dominate at average MMR too.
Otz was crushed in this debate.
imo dbd's balance focused too much around genspeed.
nowadays ur just forced to genrush and doing anything else like hiding,totems,chests is just straight up losing u the game.
they balanced around the highest potential survivors can have without realizing that this is removing a lot of the fun u can have.
Behavivour is not gonna watch this discussion instead they will continue taking advice from twitter and facebook andys for what needs change.
2:26 @notOtzdarva haha the drama in this community is the most toxic I have ever encountered in any game.
Nice idea
The competitive mindset is whats ruining this little wacky party game. One guy is obsessed with playing chess and the other one just want to play a fun game. As in my case, i am for the later.
Also very naive take on Otz. Thinking that competitive and optimized gameplay wouldnt make it boring... well... look at it now, same perks everywhere, lamest state the game has ever been with lobbies full of sweats. Only the tryhards are left. Too bad this community lacks a lot of critical thinking.
I lost the interest. Now I'm back. I won't kill, unless I'm doing adept. I really don't want to play against organised swfs anymore. This way I can avoid them completely.
best way to deal with hook camping is to have a survivor appear somewhere outside of the map and create certain spots on each map(multiple of them) where survivor can respawn/unhook the hooked survivor. Boom! Camping problem solved, Im aware the game would need major changes, because it makes killers so much weaker and denies certain strategies( for example basement which is a very old feature, would be useless), but everything has a solution, I do believe there is something they can do about tunneling, gen speed, and slugging too
"Tru3Ta1ent is right!" Even if he does make some decent points, his opinion isn't perfect. He ONLY plays killer and has a polarised view of the game. OTZ these days especially plays a lot on both sides. He has an idea of what it's like to face these playstyles. You can't solely form an opinion after having only played like 50% of this game. I'm sure survivor mains can convince you how killer-sided this game is.
Quit playing this game about 2 months ago, there's nothing bhvr can do to get me back unless its a new game mode or another way to escape. I played for 2 years and am sick of the same. From the events to the killer powers. Variations and combos are not new mechanics for killers. A skin is laughable to think it'll keep old players coming back for survivor. Any other game is way better at devs tinkering than dbd. Don't accept mediocrity anymore guys. They can do better, they choose not to.
Damn you quit within 2 years? Good on you, I wish I took more breaks from dbd from the 6 years I’ve been playing
You can say tournaments have different rules and thats true, but in those games survivors cant bring the same perks… in a regular online match (at the time) everyone one had the same build and it was extremely difficult for killer
I've never been a fan of either Otz or True (I just don't like creators who take the game SUPER seriously in the obsessive way that they do), but this was an interesting discussion. There is definitely something very fundamentally broken about killer gameplay in DBD.
Low tier killers are far far weaker than high tier. Therefore you cannot balance the game for all killers. This is the core problem with the game.
@@misterpinkandyellow74 No way? Worse killers are worse than better killers????
@@N99622do you have reading comprehension issues?
If the bottom and top of the killer power scaling is too far apart, you can't balance the game. For example if you balance maps and perks for weak killers, they will make strong killers op.
The gap in power scaling has to be reduced. Weaker killers need buffs, strong killers nerfed.
Do you get it now?
@@misterpinkandyellow74 Is bro getting angry or what?
@@N99622 not at all, you are a clear midwit though.
took about a year and a half break from all things dbd until recently, I stumbled across the original video a few months ago and I didnt realize until near the end that it was 3 years old LOL. I totally agree I think bhvr is just way too shy with experimentation and they put way too much effort into monetization (skins, new killers/survivors) and are neglecting fundamental things about the game that have an overall influence in the game experience. What im trying to say is, RELEASE RANKED/UNRANKED ALREADY.
0:04:00 I disagree that you cannot look at tournaments to see the game balance, while it's true that tournaments have different rules they fundamentally rely on the same mechanics found in general play. Gen speeds, hook timers, etc. don't change because it's suddenly a tournament.
Yep i agree tournement is a different game he forget that many surv play soloq without any communication.
Tournaments are a GREAT standard to compare, the mere fact that it requires additional rules on both sides tells you how flawed the game is. Notwithstanding that fact, competitive gameplay displays the maximum potential of both sides so ignoring that is to ignore reality.
@@Tomos_J-J "Maximum potential" is normal for other tournaments but that is heavily debatable for dbd.
1) RNG ensures that no two match are the same, moreover RNG can heavily swing matches with no means of removing it. As such mediocre teams can easily pull a win over more skilled teams simply because of RNG, thus diminishing the comparative value of skill.
2) DbD is intended to be played without coms, comp dbd is intended to be played with coms. The devs stated early after release that coms breaks the balance of the game, hence the point that Tru3 made, and Otz conceded to. Third party software breaks the already broken balance, making the game less skill dependent and more centered around good communication (aka good use of third party software).
3) filters: dbd comp is the only comp scene I am aware of that intentionally permits the use of third party filters that are known and used because they give an edge in game. Most other competitive games deem that sort of thing "cheating"...because it is.
4) the use/abuse of known, one-sided bugs/exploits (aka "techs") are not only permitted but celebrated. Many people like to bring up rocket jumping from quake when this subject comes up, but that's a farcical response. Both sides *within the same match* are able to rocket jump and have equal access to it, thus adding to skill expression. In dbd, something like UroBending takes away from the skill expression of the survivors it's used against by robbing them of what would normally be a win and effectively lowers the skill of the user because while relying on bugs or exploits might get easy downs it doesn't show that you understand how to effectively use the character themselves, merely, the bug which you are exploiting.
So while I agree that comp is good to use as a show of DBD's balance issues, it's not for the reason you think. while you might see it as a credit, what the comp scene really shows are all the broken, abusable, low effort, low skill tactics that can be used to force wins in a game that is very obviously not designed to be competitive. Nevertheless, shining a light on these negative qualities in a game is a good way to draw attention to them so they can be fixed.
@@strongwolf8534 Thanks for expanding on my point on the game's flaws. I was just stating it as a rule of thumb, comp scenes *should* ideally demonstrate the skill of every player involved but DBD requires stipulations on both sides to make it more 'fair', if I'm being honest I am the wrong person to ask about every specific rule for both killer and survivor but I am at least aware of it to some extent. As for the main issue of the game: it's the mindset, just like you said if there is anything that can be exploited the player base has been hardwired into milking it dry until it gets patched...or forever (hug 'techs' and heal 'techs' to name one of each for both sides).
This is a side statement, I feel like this community is one of the more entitled and whiney side of the games I played so far, you can observe how much praise and attention whiney posts get on the discussions page on steam and it's implied that much of the unsportsmanlike behaviour in the game is attributed to such attitudes.
@@Tomos_J-J absolutely 100% agree.
if I may add to your thoughts about the community, the worst aspect of it, which I believe feeds the player entitlement, is that when players discuss actual issues in the game, the tendency of the community is to dogpile on that person and gaslight the hell out of them in what appears to be some sort of subconscious fear that their favorite bug will be patched or that BHVR will get off their hands and take a stance against third party software.
It's even more alarming that bugs/exploits/third-party software is defended by the comp scene, all things that are the antithesis of competitive play. this is why I say dbd comp is for people who can't hack it in an actually competitive game and they never fail to prove me right.
Lmao Tru3 would break Otz in half
smartest tru3 fan
🤓☝️@@strvmpet
I like your accent
Tru3 is sound on his day but Otz in general is far more reasonable, Tru3 doesn’t see survivor at it’s worst. Survivors should only be nerfed if they boost the MMR so that you get an amazing team every time, when that happens I am perfectly happy with getting high win streak killers, just give me an amazing team to back me up. The game gives poor survivors against good killers far too often.
I disagree when you said using tournament isn't a good way to judge the game for balance. I believe that tournament rules aim to make the game more fair and balanced compared to being out in the wild of the true imbalances of the game.
Watching even the first several minutes of the debate you can see a big difference in the composure of Otz and Tru3. Otz is stuttering and interjecting very often while Tru3 is calm and patient.
english isn't otz's first language tbf
@@sapphicseas0451 you're right i didn't consider that.
@@josephbubash1662 It means nothing. In a movie or show, sure. But irl anxiety, add, adhd, autism, etc exist.
Otz is rapidly thinking while talking.
While Tru3 is basically "set in his ways". Not needing to think as much or respond with a longer counter.
this guy seems to think running the killer is the only way to have fun.
doing gens when the killer keeps coming to check it, stealthing it out. thats fun to me, being able to outplay the killer.
running the killer for 2 or 3 gens, thats fun.
what everyone thinks is fun is different. losing to a really good killer can be fun too
That’s not the point, the point was that by getting hooks or wanting to go for hooks, it would benefit dbd in the future by having more accurate, healthy and more organized data on how to balance things in the future - which they can then proceed to balance in a more structure and sound way
3:10 Thing is... He treats it as 0-2 kills is a loss, 3 draw, and 4 win. When 2 is draw, and 3-4 is a win.
If the tournaments are 2.5 kills on average, or even 2.15. That shows it's balanced to small favor to killers...
I maintain a good alternative to your 'currency system' - because, let's face it, people would feel punished for enjoying strong things, and I'd personally go so far to say it's not just a bad idea but an inimical one to the all-important idea of 'fun' - that killer power, items, and addons should influence an MMR more graduated than 3 big player pools.
MMR works when it takes all aspects of a game into account, not just rather arbitrary win conditions.
Comp play, though, regarding a recurring topic? Comp players? They're not only useless for data on their own games, they're useless for pub intelligence: the majority of comp players can't operate well without the infrastructure of comp play. I'd rather see a random duo than a comp duo beside me any day.
I think about the debate every now and then; been a long time since I watched it. Mostly cause true has pretty much switched his stance on a majority of the things he was so adamant about. But, he was projecting his own ego and pride anyway so that makes sense
Explain how he is wrong?
Where in the video does True project his ego? Also since when did he “switch” his stance? What stance did he change his mind on?
@@koopatroopaworld yeah I can, this will be long but hopefully it’ll remind you, or provide more context.
if you remember around this time, (he still does it to some degree from the stuff of his I watched in the last few months), he was very vocal about how all the other content creators aren’t as honest as he is about the game. That they are all de ranking, that they are all farming bad players. That he is in the top 0.1% of the world, showing you real gameplay unlike them. He would name drop them directly, and some of the best killers and survivors were name dropped, and how they aren’t playing the same players he is and it’s just so clear, etc etc.
This started shifting to him saying he plays for hooks, not kills. Since it’s a better demonstration of skill, to separate himself from others, on top of already all of how he already was interacting and discussing others in his stream and his UA-cam videos. (While also saying he doesn’t want to cause drama, how he doesn’t attack others, etc etc)
So his gameplay turned into him just running 3/4 of the best regression perks+tunneling out a survivor and then saying that he has to do this because no one else is playing the survivors he’s playing, while (truthfully) pointing out good issues about the game. So it was kind of a mixed bag of what you were getting, but it was generally a pretty toxic vibe. Including him arguing with people consistently in post game chats, etc.
This escalated into the Twitter beefs that he was getting into, which kind of delved into this, since he downplaying others opinions in his belief that the way he views the game was proper.
Flash forward to 2024, last stream I watched a bit of was ~December/jan. It’s still the same, except he just doesn’t verbally say the creators names anymore because he’s “afraid of the backlash he’ll get from speaking the truth”, so on and so forth. And now has definitely shifted from focusing on kills, and more so is focused on getting kills. Which was definitely his core obsession for a long time, on why he plays how he plays. His builds are still generally very sweaty, as is fair, he is definitely in the high MMR bracket, but if he is ever doing a challenge of some sort, he’s always saying how bad it’s going to go, etc. even if it’s the same builds he’s normally running but it’s like, instead of x regression perk it’s y aura perk.
This isn’t an attack on him, true talent, he’s a great player and he had good insight, it was more so his deduction he came to and 100% the way he was interacting with others that caused the backlash he got at the time. And he absolutely had to start subliminally saying his grievances about others, and retract some of his beliefs after playing against comp survivors here and there.
I’m not sure if you guys remember when he was trying to say wraith and ghost face were the best killers in the game behind nurse and spirit ~2020/2021 as well, but his end deductions and things he’d say to people just shouldn’t be taken as pure gospel, and otz definitely exposed a lot of the irrationality of his claims even in the first ten minutes of this video.
This is coming from someone that actually used to watch a lot of true, and fungoose for awhile. They both were really solid people to learn fundamentals of the game from, but their end views on the game as well as the community/playstyles to follow weren’t exactly the best.
I haven’t checked trues UA-cam in some months, but I’m confident if you scroll back to this time period, every single bit of content will mostly be him saying “top player + x”, and the content will just be a ripped video from his stream of him mowing down a gaggle of solo queue survivors and him talking fairly rudely about others and the game, why he’s right, and arguing in post game chat for a bit before he says “geeg” and has a video cut. Unless they gave him praise, or if he lost, that was generally the formula for all content. And if he lost, it’s because the game is imbalanced.
Again, he’s not incorrect. But the reasons for his loss weren’t exactly 1-1 with his rants and the rants weren’t healthy.
Seems to be better now, overall, but back then he lost myself and I know others as a viewer for this type of stuff
@@ghostflame9211 not at all- the win streak argument was actually used to point out the fact that true was very clearly saying how the game is impossible to get more than a kill at most earlier in the argument. True shot down the idea that behavior statistics showing that killers are getting more than one kill in games. So otz brought up that to kinda further hammer it home.
Because in response, true has these options; is otz not as good as him, is he a bad player? If yes, then you are proving otz point still- killers can get more than one kill in a game. Even in this argument, he first states that it’s impossible, otz points out what about at low mmr, and true said essentially low mmr doesn’t matter.
So it fits just fine
copestarva vs true cope
I would make changes to some core aspects to dbd - sacrifices in particular:
Survs no longer die on hooks, there is no sacrifice phases.
Hooking a survivor lasts for Xs, and surv can be unhooked.
If surv is not unhooked, after Xs surv is transported by the Entity to random place on map, at least 40m away from killer (floors included).
Mories makes survivor unable to make any actions for Ys (more than X), tho surv can move freely in ghost form.
Trials are time limitted.
If killer manage to create pressure by chases, gen regression, and hooks, then dawn comes to the trial, and survs are sacrifices like in endgame.
If survs manage to finish their objectives till daylight, the killer is punished by the Entity.
All balance should be made over this change.
This video had me check True back in the day because of his beliefs against tunneling etc.
Turns out he is a hypocrite.
Well he’s wants to win, just like everyone else. The bests way to win is to tunnel.
Soy Boy Choy
Tru even still relevant? All he posts are vods with little to no commentary
anyway is an og who still plays the game most of them left since 1.x.x patch to 6.x.x i belive
He gets lots of viewers, he is one of the biggest viewer counts in dbd still on a daily bases. People watch him for the game play mostly so he doesn't do alot of commentary compared to other people like Otz. (Not saying we don't watch otz for game play as well, otz just talks alot more)
He dosent really want to get involved with the community anymore I’m pretty sure.
I used to really enjoy Tru's content. I do agree that his lack of commentary makes his videos less enjoyable. I lost interest in his content once I noticed he seemed to shame other players for not playing perfectly. I get the frustration, but I want to watch entertaining gameplay. Otherwise, I'd play myself!
@@Darksage5555 he might get twitch views, but his youtube has fallen off astronomically
Tru3 has shown he can point out bad behaviour but can’t recognise it when he does it himself, he’ll laugh at somebody for losing when it’s a team game and not a solo effort but when he gets a bad team in solo queue he’ll say he deserved to win because he played well.
So basically he won’t care if somebody doesn’t escape saying they’re bad but he will make excuses if it’s him in their shoes
it blows my mind everytime i hear tru3ta1ent giving the most entitled opinion ever then discarding the other side opinion because of entitlement and his chat literally doesnt care
Doesn’t seem like he’s entitled, seems like he just wants what’s best for the game but he kept getting interrupted
He was still right.
Currency system removes the creativity and therefore is a bad idea
background player, buckle up and the new 5sec DS need to go! they're extremely toxic for this game and you can't counter them! they need major nerfs bvhr is failing the 5sec old ds was way to OP you just get stun locked into being blind by the person who had DS and stunned you LMAO!, the person with DS should be running not turning around to blind you lol this game is a JOKE! no counter play vs these perks its extremely dumb.
BVHR IS TERRIBLE! like WHY the 3sec DS is another free endurance perk that waste the killers time again!, all you have to do with the 3 sec stun DS is drop near a pallet or window! thats it!. now surivovrs can drop out in NO MANS LAND again with no skill or thought of thinking! another free escape perk with no skill attacked to it.
i would buff DS to last 70secs is all, while keeping it to 3sec stun and it can no longer be used in lockers. but surivvors get 70seconds instead of 60secs.
all this video shows me is that the game is killer sided and the killers are a bunch of camping/tunnelling bitches.
I enjoy playing killer too ( i split between 60% survivor to 40% killer) and while I dislike when gens get done in 2 mins into the game, I still enjoy the chases against survivors and as long as i have fun chases that dont end in 2 seconds and even if i only get 1 kill, i still have fun.
Yeah okay man, how many hours do you have? Do you have an investment or an actual knowledge base about dbd? Or are you a noob playing at ridiculously low mmr.
@@KtSuper is that even supossed to be an argument? u dont have to be low mmr or have less than 300hrs to enjoy chases and have a nice mental to dont get tilted after 3 gens are done while u have 2 hooks
Until you realize there is very little skill expression in chases. Once survivors realize what tiles are and to check for red stains at the right spots (if they even need to play tiles instead of just running from safe filler pallet to safe filler pallet), chases just come down to what the map gives to them and for killer it becomes pure tedium. You need to play an Stier killer or survivors need to just be bad to have fun as killer in chases.
Another fake killer player
if the game is killer sided then why does comp play restrict survivor so much and enable top tier killers with strong perks and on strong killer sided maps
You don't have to do 12 hooks I never do
The game is fine they are just bad at it
Not everyone can be a pro killer you. 😂😅
Hey I wanted to ask if you could look into the UA-camr “VoidTodos” he’s a UA-camr who purposely likes to target TTVs for no reason at all. He calls them “twitchies” and targets them by stream sniping and using hacks to stop them from stuff like streaks and things like that. It’s pretty disgusting.
I have a full video on him here: ua-cam.com/video/5xSMefgzzNY/v-deo.html
@@TheOnlyChoy just went up against him today again