God Batman has the WORST taste in women. This is what? The fourth time someone he loves turn their back on him. No wonder Batman Beyond Bruce is alone.
I love Jason, he is my favorite, i love how he looks in this comic, but why do they always got to do him dirty? like leave my boy alone and give him some good writing!!
@@jorgegfigueroa9755 batman said it right every one of the bat family has been a victim of a terrible awful crime and now they want to be the ones who dictate the crimes
@@jorgegfigueroa9755 by the way I'm not a big fan of Jason I'm more of a fan of Cassandra I don't like oracle because I just feel like everything is a fight with her like you're not right all the time lady
When he refers to them as soldiers...yeah that's Zur he's taking control and consuming Bruce from within as if those other two demons after his soul aren't enough
Riddler Knows Penguin Knows But Thinks Batman Doesn't Know He Knows Two Face Should Know Poison Ivy Should Know Harley Quinn Knows But She's Loveable Jason Knows But Always Should Have Joker Knows And This Is The Biggest Problem Mister Freeze I Dunno Hush Knows As An Ex Friend Lex Luther Knows Hugo Strange Knows Death Stroke Knows Catwoman Knows But I Mean Sex
Why? Because he is not working with Dick and Jason to improve Selina's plan, make it more legal and more permanent, thus Batman not only eventually leading Gotham to go back to its higher murder rate, where more people don't wake up to see the next day, but also letting Vandal Savage use the discord Batman and especially Zur-En-Ar Batman are creating so Savage can enact an obviously evil plan on top of it all? No way. I'm all for simple heroics doing the job, but in the comics, Gotham is in a high death toll purgatory and Bruce/Zur-en-Ar simply do not care.
@@yash019 Its not the best writing, but since Zur-en-ar/Batman honestly does not care about the 75% decrease of murder in Gotham, and is unwilling to work with Selina to improve Selina's plan, both in a legal sense and a long term sense, then Batman is the villain here. He wants the murder rate to increase so long as he isn't complicit in burglary, not even in a sting operation sense. Zur-en-ar is bleeding through in Bruce, that's a fact, and he'd rather throw hands with all his foster kids then sit down and talk. Everyone sane is siding with the Batfamily because Batman is LITERALLY not sane right now.
@@9751matt so years of baman fighting crime and the Wayne foundation providing for the needy in every way has not decreased crime but a few weeks of Selina training montage caused a 75% DECREASE IN MURDERS?! That's just bad writing. Edit:- As an afterthought there's dialogue of the batfamily witnessing selina's goons orchestrating a crime and letting them get away with it. In my mind that's far more egregious. It's just an indicator of how badly the writers had to break in universe logic to force this garbage event.
@@9751matt well, seeing as letting crime happen because “it’s not murder” is wrong, but also jumping your father to prove a point also isn’t exactly a sane method.
More like Zur-en-ar destroys Jason after injuring him with a move Batman knew could have been lethal. Not only did the last issues hint that his backup alter ego is bleeding into his normal personality, Batman also refers to Jason as a soldier here, something Bruce/Batman always try to avoid saying when its just them.
Getting really sick of that actually...I mean Jasons not really trying to destroy Bruce but this whole...."Good Soldier" thing they have going has to end.... either he's a son or a soldier.. You can't be both. Most generals found that out in the early days of war.
@killmonger5097 not in rebirth tho , that was a wild beating, like true he supposedly had killed penguin, but Bruce went too far no ? If not for buzzaro Bruce could have cripples him
@dustinhernandez-eaton42 And most people with PTSD make an effort to avoid conflict and high stress situations. Would it have been better if Batman dropped him with a concussion?
Cool, another beat down to Jason ... that's the 6th time he got his butt kicked by Batman Bats pretty beat the entire Bat family a little too much now Let's hope he give the rest of the family the beating they deserve in the upcoming issues too
@@zeke7200 Killer Croc and a few others are some of the only Gotham villains that aren't limited when their henchmen and resources are cut off. Plus, Dick, TIm and Jason had been VERY open that they want Bruce to sit down and discuss this like a sane person so Selina's plan, which is currently saving a lot of lives, can be improved and worked on so they don't have to rely on Selina's criminals forever and they can undermine the weakened murderous criminals. But Zur-En-Ar influenced Batman outright told Tim he doesn't care about the lower crime rate, and that he'll do anything to go back to the old methods, even throw all his foster children into jail. Said that right to TIm's face. When around Damian doing basic Batman and Robin stuff, he has some control, but when around the-people-messing-up-his-mission, aka the Batfamily who are trying to save a lot of lives, Zur-En-Ar is bleeding into Batman's mind, calling Jason a soldier, using potentially lethal stunts on him. If Martian Manhunter was nearby, he would sense Batman's mind was being influenced by Zur-en-Ar in seconds.
@@9751matt your smart. Say my sis is writing a fanfiction. And she's been trying to ask for advice. After seeing his no longer needed in Gotham anymore and probably the problem Batman decides to leave Gotham the only person he would tell is Damian asking him if he wants to come with him. How would the rest of the Batfamily and Selina react to this?
"Batman wants a Gotham that is good, instead of healthy..." Did she just conflate health as a bad thing, or "good" as a bad thing? Either way, it's stupid.
She saying that there is a difference between what's on the outside vs what is actually happening, To give an example of what she means take every CEO or Politician who doesnt technically "break the law", but you know they are still shady and are untouchable. To imply that just because they are not breaking the law means they are good, is not a healthy mindset to have, nor does it make them more or less an actual healthy part of society. Just because something looks good, doesnt mean it is healthy or functional. Like a rotten piece of fruit who's skin looks fresh.
Batman yanking Jason off that bike and sticking him w/ that needle is the most unhinged he has been in as while. I really like that interaction between Dick & Selina
I’m convinced these writers hate the Batfamily considering none of these characters who teamed up with catwoman should be especially dick and Jason. Catwomans plan is fundamentally immoral and got a man killed and a child orphaned and it’s caused the villains of Gotham to team up. Honestly I don’t hate Bruce beating up Jason for being an idiot if he wants to be a criminal he can get treated like one he’s not even fighting killing criminals here he’s just a bad guy. This could’ve been a war where there’s a good argument for both sides but catwomans arguement is just rich ppl should be treated with less respect then normal ppl and don’t have the right to care about their belongings so I’m going to steal from them and make myself rich while training criminals on how to be better which will inevitably make them go back to their violent ways just more efficiently.
One thing that I would like to see in this arc is Thomas and Martha's death. Selina is right, the big crimes are lower, but Bruce's parents died because of a guy in an alley. It wasn't a big crime, it was just someone stealing from them and they died because of it.
Everyone says that Nightwing and Jason wouldn't have done that, but if anyone should have opposed Selina's plan, it's Tim. Not only was he at some point the richest member of the Bat Family, because he owned all the money and Bruce's company, but at the same time he also created the Neon Knights program, the essence of which is to create jobs for ex-criminals with the help of WE (if memory serves me right). But no, the smartest member of the Bat Family (I'm not considering Bruce because of Zur's influence) does absolutely nothing in this story. At this point, they should kill Tim and put him out of his misery.
So what you're saying is you can't read. The Neon Knights program was great but it had its problems, not enough criminals were willing to go legit instantly, out of fear and other factors, plus Tim's lack of knowledge of who were the perfect goons to recruit to destabilize the criminal underworld. Tim is ACTIVELY trying to get Selina and Batman at the conversation table with himself, Dick and Jason so they can take the best parts of their plans to fix gotham during this VERY opportune time, as Catwoman caught the supercriminals with their pants down and temporarily neutered them, getting the death toll down to 75%. So you want Tim to die because...he is being completely in character trying to save Gotham since Batman's methods don't improve, just hold back, and being completely in character trying to use this 75% decrease in death toll and work on it so Gotham can have a better tomorrow. Either you can't read, or you're making no sense.
@@9751matt Tim as a character was ruined long time ago, and he's constantly getting worse. Selina's plan will inevitably fail, no matter how it is improved. Not only will the rich of Gotham begin to protect their wealth more and Selina's thieves will begin to die more often, but someone like the Joker or the rich themselves will start hunting down Selina until she's dead and her entire organization will fall. The plan doesn't work in the long run.
@@fdjtron1732 "Selina's plan will inevitably fail, no matter how it is improved" "will fail no matter how much is improved" is such a loaded bs statement and you know it. Only deluded people who think they can see all outcomes or are lying to themselves say such things. Selina managed to pull the rug under most of the super criminals in gotham and deny them their precious manpower using nothing but a mere Thieves guild she set up on her own AND decrease the murder rate in Gotham for months by 75%... ...and you don't think Bruce Wayne, Selina Kyle, Tim Drake, Jason Todd, Barbara Gordan and Dick Grayson can sit at a table together and figure out a way to both improve the plan into something more effective and more legal AND take advantage of the weakened strength of the supercriminal empires to tear apart their organizations from their roots since they are so exposed? You are tripping hard. Call it luck or whatever, but her thieves guild was well timed and well planned in its creation, since Selina HATES Bruce's purgatory for Gotham (and so does a lot of the batfamily, they want to save more lives then just going on patrol) Whether it be Catwoman's sheer luck or not, why NOT reinforce the plan as much as possible? 75% decrease in murder is amazing, and the supercriminals are wildly weakened. Joker isn't the Reverse Flash, he doesn't have the speed force, he needs actual hired goons to help him with most of his sadistic plans. His genius and sadism is unlimited but his manpower is not. He relies on the criminal underworld as much as any villain in Gotham (except Killer Croc and few other obvious exceptions i.e. metas) WHAT. SANE. PERSON. would do the undue button on a 75% decrease in murder in Gotham? Nobody. The methods are not necessarily sustainable in the long term which is why they agreed the plan needs to be coalesced with the ideas of the rest of the batfamily and Batman, people who have tackled Gotham at large before. You can't EVER say that Selina's plan was going to fall apart on its own even with help, because RIGHT WHEN IMPROVEMENT WAS ON THE TABLE, Batman, no, Zur-en-ar went actively trying to sabotage it and BRING THE MURDER RATE BACK UP! Not only does he not have any plans to take on the supercriminals while they are exposed, something they would all be onboard with, he's sabotaging the plan and trying to send them back to the super criminals for manpower AND the cherry on top, he's not communicating to anybody that Vandal Savage, a Justice League villain, is in Gotham, obviously using all the division and civil war Batman has created to occupy both sides, to do something horrible in Gotham. Batman wants a Civil War instead of sitting down with Salina and the Batfamily to work together, and that's precisely what Vandal Savage wants. Endpoint: If the death rate goes back up to 100%, if the Supervillains regain their control over Gotham, and if Vandal Savage enacts a super evil plan, its ALL on Batman. Even Batman HIMSELF in the advent of the fight with his family doubted he was thinking straight since he said his mind has been a mess, by his own admission, after the multiversal adventures and getting a robot arm. So if Tim thinks Batman is not thinking straight, If Dick thinks Batman is not thinking straight. And even Batman thinks Batman is not thinking straight.... ...guess what? He might be not thinking straight and making things worse. Duh!
@@9751mattalso it's pretty clear it does fall apart from what I've heard. Say what if Bruce retires like he does in Batman Beyond and leaves Gotham without telling anyone...save Damian and disappears. How would the Batfamily feel about that I'm betting they could manage to deal with Savage and the Rogues. But I'm curious how they would feel would they feel Bruce abandoned them and Gotham cause he's not in control or happy for him. I'm just curious cause this arc is giving me story ideas.
@@killmonger5097why’re you lying here he and Bruce reconciled in urban legends and Jason went to the batfam dinner also and Bruce and Jason both showed how much they love each other in both those comics he’s so out of character here it’s ridiculous
@@Ace-0f-Spadezyou’re the one lying he constantly shit talks Batman and always has a hate speech ready for him of course he turns at the first opportunity
@@killmonger5097 if you haven’t read past under the red hood that’s fine but new 52 and onwards he’s had an agreement with Bruce he’s chilled with him he’s hung out with the batfamily and earned nightwings trust he went to the batfamily dinner he gave up guns in urban legends and worked for Batman during task force z. Now I’m the joker comic and this they just ignored all that progression for no reason.
Makes sense why Jason would follow catwoman and I love it cause back in the day Jason wanted to control crime to reduce and catwomans plan is a similar concept
As far as we have seen in stories that take place in the future Jason can surpass Batman(as can the other robins) In Future State Gotham Jason matched Bruce and Talia had to interveve.(in the same story Dick is stated as now above Bruce and he still needed a heavily enhancing drug to fight adult Damian) In Injustice 2 prelude comics a much older Jason utterly destroyed Batman.
Those are ALTERNATE future timelines and other universes (injustice). Current Bruce in main continuity is in his 40's old and slow as stated numerous times like in fear state arc, Failsafe arc, Red madk arc, gotham nocturne arc in detective comics by ram v, Knight terrors arc and also current arc again.
So now they gonna find a way for Cat, Bat and the entire family to reunite to stop Vandal's scheme? I hate what they're doing to and with Batman. I hate how they are using the Batfamily. I hate all of it. I hate Selina more but whatever. She will never be deserving of Bruce. Never. Nightwing, I want them to come over to the Blud and rob your ass as well. Aren't you supposed to be rich now? I expected better from you, if no one else I expected better from you.
Don't sound like Bat Fam from New 52 or rebirth. The Bat Family is like Wu tang..cooler together then when they are apart..I always enjoy the stories of them working together, exploring the complexity of the relationships
If it makes it any cooler technically at this point ever since dark knights death metal every single person in the universe regains their memories of the new 52, final crisis and well pre crisis events. It is all currently in continuity and the public knows about it
To anyone who supports Catwoman or anyone else on her side i say this: Bro, really? You're with her? You're ok with criminals doing crime as long as its not that bad? What if you mom or dad or brother gave you something very valuable and they past away, and you hold that momento, and it's stolen from you.. could wreck somebody. Or maybe they steal something that someone would sell for more money. Sure the gang goes after the rich.. but not all rich are scums. Just a really really dumb way to look at ail these things. Batman and Damian are right. Crime is crime, and it should be stopped. All it takes it for some of the gang to get hotheaded and think they can do it on their own and start taking violent action.
Honestly this would work better if they stole from corrupted officials, judges, businessmen and mobsters honestly Black Mask would be out of business and on the streets
How the h does Vandal Savage know that Bruce is Batman? It would make sense if Selina put him up to buying The Manor, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. It just seems- Odd. And he’s not a character that should know .
Just my take on the way Batman is going here.... His slipping so bad now, that I don't think there is nothing besides a full reboot to fix this mess since killing Bruce of ain't going to happen. Sure, it is their IP, but I don't have to buy something, that just feels wrong.
Wow, this story is dumb… Do the writers hate the Batfamily? I’m not even the biggest Red Hood fan but he’s getting character assassinated hard! Why anyone would go along with Catwoman’s plan is ridiculous: non-violent crimes are still crimes. If any other DC hero heard about this they would immediately try to stop it. Especially Nightwing, why he’d even THINK about going along with this spits in the face of his entire character, he’s leading the premier super hero team in charge of protecting the whole planet because he’s the best of the best and he didn’t immediately oppose Catwoman and side with Batman, his own father, is so stupid.😢
They need to do something important and mainstream with Jason like they’re doing with catwoman in all his new story lines there’s no development when he came back on the scene as the red hood he was meant to be taken seriously this guys just some sidekick that messes stuff up can he show us his moral code conviction and principles working or at least growing sheesh. This is embarrassing as a first time fan.
Batman is so freaking stubborn he won't see when things actually work better than his way. It might not be correct but god damn it it works with crime 75% down
It’s only violent crime and it’s not going to last. The villains are gonna hit back at catwoman and make Gotham’s average life expectancy rating to drop by 200%. Catwoman also is teaching know violent individuals how to be better crooks and that is inevitably gonna start make the rates of very hard to solve murders to also rise. It’s well intended but it’s also extremely dangerous and destined to blow up in her and the batfamily’s faces
the one thing that has me more on catwomen side atm than Batmans is the fact that CAT has saved more lives than BMAN has in such a short time period 75 percent ( violent crime = Potential LIVEs Taken) is down, CRIME IS CRIME but at the end of the day a LIFE saved is a LIFE saved objectively atm she is more right than bman, and while one thief has died there is still way more lives saved than taken
Violent crime is down for now, but there is a link between violent crime and property crime. For example take gang violence. In the end gang violence isn't about the violence, it's about having territory to sell drugs to make money. Especially considering that rich people have resources and eventually they will retaliate by either hiring private security or their own thugs.
I still don't get by what logic could Vandal buy Wayne Manor. Why would it be up for sale? Also, a story of how Vandal uses one of his daughters for his plans? How original... Does he have no sons? And can't he do things on his own instead of bringing a child to betray him or die?
Batman is so against crime doesn’t he know that assault with bodily harm like broken bones gives you about 20 years in prison. I love the story I’m just saying
Yeah, and that's why I refuse to sympathize with him at all. Plus, he pretty much abuses the Batfamily. If the Batfamily teamed up with Selina because they were sick of Bruce's abuse, I wouldn't blame them. But that would require DC to acknowledge that their cash cow poster child is an abusive hypocrite piece of trash, and you know they will do no such thing. I hope DC comics get canceled so we can move on to film and TV which will do better than comics. Trust me, it's for the best if and when that day comes..
@9751matt , it's up to us to fix our heroes. If they won't do it, then we shall. We shall save our beloved heroes and restore them to their former glory. We will not depend on the comics for reliable character consistency, and so instead we do what they won't: do some film/tv writing that actually acknowledges what we love about them. We will write them as we know them to be, and we will create beautiful, mesmerizing art. My friends, we have a mission-Operation Save Our Favorite Characters!
He was sedated here and previously Batman used a mechanical arm that made him much stronger. Even in Rebirth we have seen a very injured Jason still hold his own for a bit
Jason is literally a criminal now. Batman should give up on him. He's given Jason 57 chances but he just won't stop and honestly seeing him act like this ruins Jason's character especially after the end of night terrors where it showed him growing up a bit
Batman is too black and white. Besides, that is just the result of written returning to the status quo, and that's bad for development. Also, most in people in the batfamily joined Selena, so they were all criminals to him then.
Catwomans training criminals. She got a man killed. Stealings immoral even if you think ppl won’t miss their items which they will. Catwomans plan caused every villain in Gotham to team up.
@@zeke7200 it’s already ruined scarecrow,two face,professor pyg this even didn’t cripple them it made them work together and the criminals of Gotham when they see Batman still after then their just going to use their training to do what they normally do which makes Batman’s mission harder. Also what happens when Selina becomes rich is it then fair game to steal all her stuff steal from her employees families?
Bro, really? You're with her? You're ok with criminals doing crime as long as its not that bad? What if you mom or dad or brother gave you something very valuable and they past away, and you hold that momento, and it's stolen from you.. could wreck somebody. Or maybe they steal something that someone would sell for more money. Sure the gang goes after the rich.. but not all rich are scums. Just a really really dumb way to look at ail these things. Batman and Damian are right. Crime is crime, and it should be stopped. All it takes it for some of the gang to get hotheaded and think they can do it on their own and start taking violent action.
@@Ace-0f-Spadez only because they can't get use to her plan and feel like it would be a threat to their plans. Crimes has gone done 75 percent, you can't deny that
So many spoiled boys supporting Batman’s crybaby behaviour. Catwoman is 100% right about it, can’t wait to see y’all s reaction once he loses his shit in a few issues and does something catastrophic. 😌
@@mihaitodorut5297eh how do you think things would go if Bruce just left Gotham and retired. And only told Damian leaving the others to protect Gotham feeling he's not needed they'd do fine
@@mihaitodorut5297 yeah until the villains start attacking her and convince the goons she trained to do whatever they want with their training again. Sorry but she just made a ticking time bomb that is going to make Gotham 10 times worse because all those goons are better criminals and can get away with a lot more then before
I honestly hope that DC comics goes bankrupt. That's it, no more comics. No more crappy storylines, no more out of character moves, no more having writers create storylines for characters they hate only to massacre them, it has to STOP! I will do a better job one day, hopefully. I will write these characters the way they deserve to be, for everyone who loves them, and I will fix the problem DC has created for themselves. Sure, I will have to acknowledge the out of character awfulness, but only to emphasize the consequences of those actions and make the centerpiece of some major time travel shenanigans that will erase the flukes from existence. And I'd kill Batman and traumatize the Batfamily, thank you for asking. 😂 the stakes will be higher. But no more, no more. DC, you must fall, for you cannot keep butchering these characters forever. Cancel the comics! Go for film and tv writing instead, folks! Why read comics when you can create your own stories?
They'll never let Jason fully grow... i
I’m saying, someone needs to take over
God Batman has the WORST taste in women. This is what? The fourth time someone he loves turn their back on him. No wonder Batman Beyond Bruce is alone.
Funny enough: Selina was ment to be Terry's bio mom
As bad as Selina's character has been written in last few years, she still Batman's #1 love interest. She's been around for over 80s years.
@@krisj827 true Catwoman is my ride or die with Bruce the only one who comes close is Diana
@@zeke7200Diana 💀
@@zeke7200
It's definitely not Diana. Silver St. Cloud is iconic as you can get for a Batman love interest.
I love Jason, he is my favorite, i love how he looks in this comic, but why do they always got to do him dirty? like leave my boy alone and give him some good writing!!
How was he done dirty???
@@cartrellsplunge1525Jason is on Catwoman's side, the same side responsible for crimes the Batfamily would stop in a heartbeat.
@@jorgegfigueroa9755 batman said it right every one of the bat family has been a victim of a terrible awful crime and now they want to be the ones who dictate the crimes
@@jorgegfigueroa9755 by the way I'm not a big fan of Jason I'm more of a fan of Cassandra I don't like oracle because I just feel like everything is a fight with her like you're not right all the time lady
It's for the Zur en Ar plot developing in the background
Batman is just crazy,what he did to Jason in 138#. I doubt that's Bruce at all,I think is Zur.
When he refers to them as soldiers...yeah that's Zur he's taking control and consuming Bruce from within as if those other two demons after his soul aren't enough
Nah, that's Bruce. Remember Frank Miller Batman... He refers to his kids as soldiers 100% of the time.
Ok, obviously Zur En Ah is leaking into Bruce
*Ar
RIP Benny.
Is it me or are too many villains know batman's identity???
Oh deep down they all know. But not one of them has the hands to face him on a constant basis.
Riddler Knows
Penguin Knows But Thinks Batman Doesn't Know He Knows
Two Face Should Know
Poison Ivy Should Know
Harley Quinn Knows But She's Loveable
Jason Knows But Always Should Have
Joker Knows And This Is The Biggest Problem
Mister Freeze I Dunno
Hush Knows As An Ex Friend
Lex Luther Knows
Hugo Strange Knows
Death Stroke Knows
Catwoman Knows But I Mean Sex
And Joe Chill Knows But He Should Know
Talia Al Gu Knows But Once More Sex
Lady Shiva Knows He Has Her Daughter
Bane Knows And This Was A Problem
... And Punchline Should Know Just Association of Stealing All of Bruce's Money through Catwoman in a Setup
Siding with Batman and Damian in this one.
Why? Because he is not working with Dick and Jason to improve Selina's plan, make it more legal and more permanent, thus Batman not only eventually leading Gotham to go back to its higher murder rate, where more people don't wake up to see the next day, but also letting Vandal Savage use the discord Batman and especially Zur-En-Ar Batman are creating so Savage can enact an obviously evil plan on top of it all?
No way. I'm all for simple heroics doing the job, but in the comics, Gotham is in a high death toll purgatory and Bruce/Zur-en-Ar simply do not care.
Everyone sane is siding with Batman on this. I'll even state outright it's just bad writing
@@yash019 Its not the best writing, but since Zur-en-ar/Batman honestly does not care about the 75% decrease of murder in Gotham, and is unwilling to work with Selina to improve Selina's plan, both in a legal sense and a long term sense, then Batman is the villain here.
He wants the murder rate to increase so long as he isn't complicit in burglary, not even in a sting operation sense. Zur-en-ar is bleeding through in Bruce, that's a fact, and he'd rather throw hands with all his foster kids then sit down and talk.
Everyone sane is siding with the Batfamily because Batman is LITERALLY not sane right now.
@@9751matt so years of baman fighting crime and the Wayne foundation providing for the needy in every way has not decreased crime but a few weeks of Selina training montage caused a 75% DECREASE IN MURDERS?!
That's just bad writing.
Edit:- As an afterthought there's dialogue of the batfamily witnessing selina's goons orchestrating a crime and letting them get away with it. In my mind that's far more egregious. It's just an indicator of how badly the writers had to break in universe logic to force this garbage event.
@@9751matt well, seeing as letting crime happen because “it’s not murder” is wrong, but also jumping your father to prove a point also isn’t exactly a sane method.
Well everybody get ready for that Batman i-told-you-so
I like the sudden cut at the end of each vid to keep retention 'till the end!
Batman destroys Jason again
More like Zur-en-ar destroys Jason after injuring him with a move Batman knew could have been lethal.
Not only did the last issues hint that his backup alter ego is bleeding into his normal personality, Batman also refers to Jason as a soldier here, something Bruce/Batman always try to avoid saying when its just them.
Getting really sick of that actually...I mean Jasons not really trying to destroy Bruce but this whole...."Good Soldier" thing they have going has to end.... either he's a son or a soldier..
You can't be both. Most generals found that out in the early days of war.
@@9751mattbatman create zur, it's just a plot for a people like u who fanatic abt batman to keep sided him
From under the Red Hood to Outlaws rebirth, Urban Legends and Gotham War nobody beats the shit outta their son like Batman does, W consistent dad.
And he completely deserves it
@killmonger5097 not in rebirth tho , that was a wild beating, like true he supposedly had killed penguin, but Bruce went too far no ? If not for buzzaro Bruce could have cripples him
@@cloverharvest1145 Killed him publicly, in front of the news, in front of a crowd, in Gotham of all places
@@ranoutofgoodusernames8394penguin didn’t even die.
@@killmonger5097nah
DC Writers trying not to ruin the Batfamily's character challenge (They failed woefully)
Cant fail if its intentional. Which it HAS to be at this point
Batman drugging Jason despite knowing his past with drugs is crazy
Lmao
He tranq'd him.
It really ain't that deep.
@@silverblade357it really is tho he’s been druged a few times there is a thing called ptsd
@dustinhernandez-eaton42 And most people with PTSD make an effort to avoid conflict and high stress situations. Would it have been better if Batman dropped him with a concussion?
@@silverblade357 Coming from someone with diagnosed CPTSD you seem confused. It's called FIGHT or flight
Cool, another beat down to Jason ... that's the 6th time he got his butt kicked by Batman
Bats pretty beat the entire Bat family a little too much now
Let's hope he give the rest of the family the beating they deserve in the upcoming issues too
Catwoman is irritating lol I get that violent crime is down, but one crime for another is not good. That's just a slippery slope
exactly
Also she isn't thinking about what the villians will do in retaliation many of the Batman villians are dangerous enough without henchmen
what an idiot@@zeke7200
@@zeke7200 Killer Croc and a few others are some of the only Gotham villains that aren't limited when their henchmen and resources are cut off.
Plus, Dick, TIm and Jason had been VERY open that they want Bruce to sit down and discuss this like a sane person so Selina's plan, which is currently saving a lot of lives, can be improved and worked on so they don't have to rely on Selina's criminals forever and they can undermine the weakened murderous criminals.
But Zur-En-Ar influenced Batman outright told Tim he doesn't care about the lower crime rate, and that he'll do anything to go back to the old methods, even throw all his foster children into jail. Said that right to TIm's face.
When around Damian doing basic Batman and Robin stuff, he has some control, but when around the-people-messing-up-his-mission, aka the Batfamily who are trying to save a lot of lives, Zur-En-Ar is bleeding into Batman's mind, calling Jason a soldier, using potentially lethal stunts on him.
If Martian Manhunter was nearby, he would sense Batman's mind was being influenced by Zur-en-Ar in seconds.
@@9751matt your smart. Say my sis is writing a fanfiction. And she's been trying to ask for advice. After seeing his no longer needed in Gotham anymore and probably the problem Batman decides to leave Gotham the only person he would tell is Damian asking him if he wants to come with him. How would the rest of the Batfamily and Selina react to this?
Thx god for Young Justice because i had no idea who she was until you said Vandal's daughter
"Batman wants a Gotham that is good, instead of healthy..."
Did she just conflate health as a bad thing, or "good" as a bad thing?
Either way, it's stupid.
She saying that there is a difference between what's on the outside vs what is actually happening, To give an example of what she means take every CEO or Politician who doesnt technically "break the law", but you know they are still shady and are untouchable. To imply that just because they are not breaking the law means they are good, is not a healthy mindset to have, nor does it make them more or less an actual healthy part of society.
Just because something looks good, doesnt mean it is healthy or functional. Like a rotten piece of fruit who's skin looks fresh.
Batman yanking Jason off that bike and sticking him w/ that needle is the most unhinged he has been in as while.
I really like that interaction between Dick & Selina
Him still calling Jason his student drives me crazy
Day 32 of asking to do an audio drama about "Morrison's Batman run"
(or at least Batman RIP🙏)
I’m convinced these writers hate the Batfamily considering none of these characters who teamed up with catwoman should be especially dick and Jason. Catwomans plan is fundamentally immoral and got a man killed and a child orphaned and it’s caused the villains of Gotham to team up. Honestly I don’t hate Bruce beating up Jason for being an idiot if he wants to be a criminal he can get treated like one he’s not even fighting killing criminals here he’s just a bad guy. This could’ve been a war where there’s a good argument for both sides but catwomans arguement is just rich ppl should be treated with less respect then normal ppl and don’t have the right to care about their belongings so I’m going to steal from them and make myself rich while training criminals on how to be better which will inevitably make them go back to their violent ways just more efficiently.
Agreed and Jason's my favorite character in comics. They keep writing him into a loop and this is the worst I've seen him written in a while.
@@turbostriker2673 yeah it’s getting hard to even call him my favorite batfamily member aside from Bruce cause like what are we doing with him rn
@@turbostriker2673same Batman is my boy and Catwoman is my girl BUT THEY KEEP FUCKING THEM UP WORST THAN FANFICS
He is not even a villain
One thing that I would like to see in this arc is Thomas and Martha's death. Selina is right, the big crimes are lower, but Bruce's parents died because of a guy in an alley. It wasn't a big crime, it was just someone stealing from them and they died because of it.
Everyone says that Nightwing and Jason wouldn't have done that, but if anyone should have opposed Selina's plan, it's Tim. Not only was he at some point the richest member of the Bat Family, because he owned all the money and Bruce's company, but at the same time he also created the Neon Knights program, the essence of which is to create jobs for ex-criminals with the help of WE (if memory serves me right). But no, the smartest member of the Bat Family (I'm not considering Bruce because of Zur's influence) does absolutely nothing in this story. At this point, they should kill Tim and put him out of his misery.
So what you're saying is you can't read.
The Neon Knights program was great but it had its problems, not enough criminals were willing to go legit instantly, out of fear and other factors, plus Tim's lack of knowledge of who were the perfect goons to recruit to destabilize the criminal underworld.
Tim is ACTIVELY trying to get Selina and Batman at the conversation table with himself, Dick and Jason so they can take the best parts of their plans to fix gotham during this VERY opportune time, as Catwoman caught the supercriminals with their pants down and temporarily neutered them, getting the death toll down to 75%.
So you want Tim to die because...he is being completely in character trying to save Gotham since Batman's methods don't improve, just hold back, and being completely in character trying to use this 75% decrease in death toll and work on it so Gotham can have a better tomorrow.
Either you can't read, or you're making no sense.
@@9751matt Tim as a character was ruined long time ago, and he's constantly getting worse. Selina's plan will inevitably fail, no matter how it is improved. Not only will the rich of Gotham begin to protect their wealth more and Selina's thieves will begin to die more often, but someone like the Joker or the rich themselves will start hunting down Selina until she's dead and her entire organization will fall. The plan doesn't work in the long run.
@@fdjtron1732 "Selina's plan will inevitably fail, no matter how it is improved"
"will fail no matter how much is improved" is such a loaded bs statement and you know it. Only deluded people who think they can see all outcomes or are lying to themselves say such things.
Selina managed to pull the rug under most of the super criminals in gotham and deny them their precious manpower using nothing but a mere Thieves guild she set up on her own AND decrease the murder rate in Gotham for months by 75%...
...and you don't think Bruce Wayne, Selina Kyle, Tim Drake, Jason Todd, Barbara Gordan and Dick Grayson can sit at a table together and figure out a way to both improve the plan into something more effective and more legal AND take advantage of the weakened strength of the supercriminal empires to tear apart their organizations from their roots since they are so exposed?
You are tripping hard.
Call it luck or whatever, but her thieves guild was well timed and well planned in its creation, since Selina HATES Bruce's purgatory for Gotham (and so does a lot of the batfamily, they want to save more lives then just going on patrol)
Whether it be Catwoman's sheer luck or not, why NOT reinforce the plan as much as possible? 75% decrease in murder is amazing, and the supercriminals are wildly weakened.
Joker isn't the Reverse Flash, he doesn't have the speed force, he needs actual hired goons to help him with most of his sadistic plans. His genius and sadism is unlimited but his manpower is not. He relies on the criminal underworld as much as any villain in Gotham (except Killer Croc and few other obvious exceptions i.e. metas)
WHAT. SANE. PERSON. would do the undue button on a 75% decrease in murder in Gotham? Nobody. The methods are not necessarily sustainable in the long term which is why they agreed the plan needs to be coalesced with the ideas of the rest of the batfamily and Batman, people who have tackled Gotham at large before.
You can't EVER say that Selina's plan was going to fall apart on its own even with help, because RIGHT WHEN IMPROVEMENT WAS ON THE TABLE, Batman, no, Zur-en-ar went actively trying to sabotage it and BRING THE MURDER RATE BACK UP!
Not only does he not have any plans to take on the supercriminals while they are exposed, something they would all be onboard with, he's sabotaging the plan and trying to send them back to the super criminals for manpower AND the cherry on top, he's not communicating to anybody that Vandal Savage, a Justice League villain, is in Gotham, obviously using all the division and civil war Batman has created to occupy both sides, to do something horrible in Gotham.
Batman wants a Civil War instead of sitting down with Salina and the Batfamily to work together, and that's precisely what Vandal Savage wants.
Endpoint: If the death rate goes back up to 100%, if the Supervillains regain their control over Gotham, and if Vandal Savage enacts a super evil plan, its ALL on Batman.
Even Batman HIMSELF in the advent of the fight with his family doubted he was thinking straight since he said his mind has been a mess, by his own admission, after the multiversal adventures and getting a robot arm.
So if Tim thinks Batman is not thinking straight,
If Dick thinks Batman is not thinking straight.
And even Batman thinks Batman is not thinking straight....
...guess what? He might be not thinking straight and making things worse.
Duh!
@@9751mattalso it's pretty clear it does fall apart from what I've heard.
Say what if Bruce retires like he does in Batman Beyond and leaves Gotham without telling anyone...save Damian and disappears. How would the Batfamily feel about that I'm betting they could manage to deal with Savage and the Rogues. But I'm curious how they would feel would they feel Bruce abandoned them and Gotham cause he's not in control or happy for him. I'm just curious cause this arc is giving me story ideas.
@@9751mattalso what about the Court of Owls
It's like they took Wayne Family Adventures and made the opposite of that.
This scene fight reminded me of Task Force Z when Jason fights Bruce but he lets him go.
Yo with the ultimate armor wars coming out you should do a story on armor wars and ultimate armor wars
You got Jason and Nightwing working with Selena? No this story doesn’t cut it for me. And is in poor taste.
Bro Jason would never agree to this wtf are these writers on 💀
Yes he would he hates Batman and takes every chance he gets to go against him
@@killmonger5097why’re you lying here he and Bruce reconciled in urban legends and Jason went to the batfam dinner also and Bruce and Jason both showed how much they love each other in both those comics he’s so out of character here it’s ridiculous
@@Ace-0f-Spadezyou’re the one lying he constantly shit talks Batman and always has a hate speech ready for him of course he turns at the first opportunity
@@killmonger5097 if you haven’t read past under the red hood that’s fine but new 52 and onwards he’s had an agreement with Bruce he’s chilled with him he’s hung out with the batfamily and earned nightwings trust he went to the batfamily dinner he gave up guns in urban legends and worked for Batman during task force z. Now I’m the joker comic and this they just ignored all that progression for no reason.
@@Ace-0f-Spadezbro their relationship is garbage in every comic after his death quit with the fanfiction
Hate the fact that i had to read Catwoman for this story lol 😅
But i see what ur doing DC
Poor Jason, they did him dirty (i love his design in this comic) but that aside, I believe Batman is correct.
Makes sense why Jason would follow catwoman and I love it cause back in the day Jason wanted to control crime to reduce and catwomans plan is a similar concept
As far as we have seen in stories that take place in the future Jason can surpass Batman(as can the other robins)
In Future State Gotham Jason matched Bruce and Talia had to interveve.(in the same story Dick is stated as now above Bruce and he still needed a heavily enhancing drug to fight adult Damian)
In Injustice 2 prelude comics a much older Jason utterly destroyed Batman.
Injustice 2 Jason also got his shit pushed in by wildcat
Those are ALTERNATE future timelines and other universes (injustice). Current Bruce in main continuity is in his 40's old and slow as stated numerous times like in fear state arc, Failsafe arc, Red madk arc, gotham nocturne arc in detective comics by ram v, Knight terrors arc and also current arc again.
Can I know what future state book that is from? Would finally love to see jason match bruce.
nice outro
My first reaction to the title "again!?"
Prepare for more deja vu when they inevitably do another.
So now they gonna find a way for Cat, Bat and the entire family to reunite to stop Vandal's scheme? I hate what they're doing to and with Batman. I hate how they are using the Batfamily. I hate all of it. I hate Selina more but whatever. She will never be deserving of Bruce. Never. Nightwing, I want them to come over to the Blud and rob your ass as well. Aren't you supposed to be rich now? I expected better from you, if no one else I expected better from you.
Liked and watched
Don't sound like Bat Fam from New 52 or rebirth. The Bat Family is like Wu tang..cooler together then when they are apart..I always enjoy the stories of them working together, exploring the complexity of the relationships
If it makes it any cooler technically at this point ever since dark knights death metal every single person in the universe regains their memories of the new 52, final crisis and well pre crisis events. It is all currently in continuity and the public knows about it
Though I would argue a lot of them are repressing their memories
Oh joy, they finally fought...again
So, Scandal Savage is pretending to be on Selina's side.
Why can't they let Batman and Catwoman be happy together
This isn’t hard catwoman is wrong she’s just ordinary criminal that thinks she’s right
Hey Benny can you please cover the strain and crossed and more nail biter and American vampire and spread for Halloween
i still don't get this gotham war like what is the point of gotham war.
To anyone who supports Catwoman or anyone else on her side i say this:
Bro, really? You're with her? You're ok with criminals doing crime as long as its not that bad? What if you mom or dad or brother gave you something very valuable and they past away, and you hold that momento, and it's stolen from you.. could wreck somebody. Or maybe they steal something that someone would sell for more money. Sure the gang goes after the rich.. but not all rich are scums. Just a really really dumb way to look at ail these things. Batman and Damian are right. Crime is crime, and it should be stopped. All it takes it for some of the gang to get hotheaded and think they can do it on their own and start taking violent action.
Honestly this would work better if they stole from corrupted officials, judges, businessmen and mobsters honestly Black Mask would be out of business and on the streets
Truth
yes yes that is right preach
thank you fellow believer @@uh9104
I SAY AGAIN!@@rayshawnwilliams5673
I wish they got married I think the stories could have been better then what we got now
Selina could have made this to rob from the corrupt, mob bosses, and other criminals, Rupert Thorn, Daggat, Stagg
How the h does Vandal Savage know that Bruce is Batman? It would make sense if Selina put him up to buying The Manor, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. It just seems- Odd. And he’s not a character that should know .
So Bruce lost the rest of his money? He’s just poor now OUTRIGHT BROKE?
Just my take on the way Batman is going here....
His slipping so bad now, that I don't think there is nothing besides a full reboot to fix this mess since killing Bruce of ain't going to happen.
Sure, it is their IP, but I don't have to buy something, that just feels wrong.
This was sweet 🎂
Wow, this story is dumb… Do the writers hate the Batfamily? I’m not even the biggest Red Hood fan but he’s getting character assassinated hard! Why anyone would go along with Catwoman’s plan is ridiculous: non-violent crimes are still crimes. If any other DC hero heard about this they would immediately try to stop it. Especially Nightwing, why he’d even THINK about going along with this spits in the face of his entire character, he’s leading the premier super hero team in charge of protecting the whole planet because he’s the best of the best and he didn’t immediately oppose Catwoman and side with Batman, his own father, is so stupid.😢
Whichever side Cassandra is on is the side i pick
I know that we're all fighting about whose right and whose wrong but WHY IS THE FIRST CAVEMAN AND HIS DAUGHTER TRYING TO STEAL GOTHAM?
Jason working for Catwoman makes zero sense. Have they even read a Red Hood comic 😂😂😂 this writing is so bad...
They need to do something important and mainstream with Jason like they’re doing with catwoman in all his new story lines there’s no development when he came back on the scene as the red hood he was meant to be taken seriously this guys just some sidekick that messes stuff up can he show us his moral code conviction and principles working or at least growing sheesh. This is embarrassing as a first time fan.
Ain’t no way Batman used a crowbar against his son who got beaten to death by a crowbar.
Batman is so freaking stubborn he won't see when things actually work better than his way. It might not be correct but god damn it it works with crime 75% down
It’s only violent crime and it’s not going to last. The villains are gonna hit back at catwoman and make Gotham’s average life expectancy rating to drop by 200%. Catwoman also is teaching know violent individuals how to be better crooks and that is inevitably gonna start make the rates of very hard to solve murders to also rise. It’s well intended but it’s also extremely dangerous and destined to blow up in her and the batfamily’s faces
I love Batman he is the best
Didn’t Joker steal Batman’s fortune too?
Wooohooo!
Why are Batman enemies always doing better than him?
the one thing that has me more on catwomen side atm than Batmans is the fact that CAT has saved more lives than BMAN has in such a short time period 75 percent
( violent crime = Potential LIVEs Taken) is down, CRIME IS CRIME but at the end of the day a LIFE saved is a LIFE saved objectively atm she is more right than bman, and while one thief has died there is still way more lives saved than taken
Fair point but even if Batman hadn't gotten involved it wouldn't have lasted with Court of Owls this new villian alliance, and Joker
Violent crime is down for now, but there is a link between violent crime and property crime. For example take gang violence. In the end gang violence isn't about the violence, it's about having territory to sell drugs to make money. Especially considering that rich people have resources and eventually they will retaliate by either hiring private security or their own thugs.
I still don't get by what logic could Vandal buy Wayne Manor. Why would it be up for sale?
Also, a story of how Vandal uses one of his daughters for his plans? How original... Does he have no sons? And can't he do things on his own instead of bringing a child to betray him or die?
Hey!
Dick does know what it’s like to grow up kind of poor like you won’t make much money working at the circus would you
GOTHAM WAR BABYYY
Catwoman cracks her whip:
Slashes Tyrone on the face
Tyrone: really catwoman?!!
Catwoman: 😳😳😳😳😳
And I OOP-
👍
Jason Todd is the best robin because he’s an antihero and I love antiheroes more than anything so Jason is the greatest
Imagine if Jason met Michael Keaton or Earth 2 Batman he'd feel right at home
Why do they always do this to batman?
can we please get a vudei inthe new wonder woman issue
😮
Batman is so against crime doesn’t he know that assault with bodily harm like broken bones gives you about 20 years in prison. I love the story I’m just saying
Yeah, and that's why I refuse to sympathize with him at all. Plus, he pretty much abuses the Batfamily. If the Batfamily teamed up with Selina because they were sick of Bruce's abuse, I wouldn't blame them. But that would require DC to acknowledge that their cash cow poster child is an abusive hypocrite piece of trash, and you know they will do no such thing. I hope DC comics get canceled so we can move on to film and TV which will do better than comics. Trust me, it's for the best if and when that day comes..
@@dafilmqueen556 Agreed, comic Batman has become really scummy in recent years.
@9751matt , it's up to us to fix our heroes. If they won't do it, then we shall. We shall save our beloved heroes and restore them to their former glory. We will not depend on the comics for reliable character consistency, and so instead we do what they won't: do some film/tv writing that actually acknowledges what we love about them. We will write them as we know them to be, and we will create beautiful, mesmerizing art. My friends, we have a mission-Operation Save Our Favorite Characters!
@@dafilmqueen556yeah cause really I hate the comic book Batman but I love the animated ones
Im calling it. Its gonna be the stupidest story of the decade and its only been 3 years
god this storyline is just... awful lmao
but thanks for covering it
Hello
I hate how Jay went from being Bruce's physical equal to his punching bag, bring back the Pre Rebirth Red Hood, the one that gave as good as he got!
He was sedated here and previously Batman used a mechanical arm that made him much stronger.
Even in Rebirth we have seen a very injured Jason still hold his own for a bit
@@newhybrid101 Yes, now he's a Joke.
Jason is literally a criminal now. Batman should give up on him. He's given Jason 57 chances but he just won't stop and honestly seeing him act like this ruins Jason's character especially after the end of night terrors where it showed him growing up a bit
Batman is too black and white. Besides, that is just the result of written returning to the status quo, and that's bad for development. Also, most in people in the batfamily joined Selena, so they were all criminals to him then.
384
Jason don’t really agree with catwoman he jst will take any chance he can get to spite Bruce. He still holding on to tht hurt
I am with catwoman. Not everything is black and white, and for as long as it makes the world at least a little better, its worth it.
Catwomans training criminals. She got a man killed. Stealings immoral even if you think ppl won’t miss their items which they will. Catwomans plan caused every villain in Gotham to team up.
@@Ace-0f-Spadezand you just known Joker is gonna ruin it eventually and cause trouble
@@zeke7200 it’s already ruined scarecrow,two face,professor pyg this even didn’t cripple them it made them work together and the criminals of Gotham when they see Batman still after then their just going to use their training to do what they normally do which makes Batman’s mission harder. Also what happens when Selina becomes rich is it then fair game to steal all her stuff steal from her employees families?
Bro, really? You're with her? You're ok with criminals doing crime as long as its not that bad? What if you mom or dad or brother gave you something very valuable and they past away, and you hold that momento, and it's stolen from you.. could wreck somebody. Or maybe they steal something that someone would sell for more money. Sure the gang goes after the rich.. but not all rich are scums. Just a really really dumb way to look at ail these things. Batman and Damian are right. Crime is crime, and it should be stopped. All it takes it for some of the gang to get hotheaded and think they can do it on their own and start taking violent action.
@@Ace-0f-Spadez only because they can't get use to her plan and feel like it would be a threat to their plans. Crimes has gone done 75 percent, you can't deny that
Jason got what he deserved well deserved 👏🏾
First
So many spoiled boys supporting Batman’s crybaby behaviour. Catwoman is 100% right about it, can’t wait to see y’all s reaction once he loses his shit in a few issues and does something catastrophic. 😌
Uh- I would understand (kind of) if you said "she has a point", but to say she's 100% right? Who is the "spoiled" boy here? Whatever that means
@@yay29823 you’re right actually, there are flaws to her plan. But it’s better than what he’s been doing so far.
@@mihaitodorut5297eh how do you think things would go if Bruce just left Gotham and retired. And only told Damian leaving the others to protect Gotham feeling he's not needed they'd do fine
@@mihaitodorut5297 yeah until the villains start attacking her and convince the goons she trained to do whatever they want with their training again. Sorry but she just made a ticking time bomb that is going to make Gotham 10 times worse because all those goons are better criminals and can get away with a lot more then before
I honestly hope that DC comics goes bankrupt. That's it, no more comics. No more crappy storylines, no more out of character moves, no more having writers create storylines for characters they hate only to massacre them, it has to STOP! I will do a better job one day, hopefully. I will write these characters the way they deserve to be, for everyone who loves them, and I will fix the problem DC has created for themselves. Sure, I will have to acknowledge the out of character awfulness, but only to emphasize the consequences of those actions and make the centerpiece of some major time travel shenanigans that will erase the flukes from existence. And I'd kill Batman and traumatize the Batfamily, thank you for asking. 😂 the stakes will be higher. But no more, no more. DC, you must fall, for you cannot keep butchering these characters forever. Cancel the comics! Go for film and tv writing instead, folks! Why read comics when you can create your own stories?
FFS stop putting Selina and Bruce at odds.