Is Boeing Planning a 757 MAX?!
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
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When Boeing decided to stop manufacturing the Boeing 757 back in 2002 it left a big hole in the Boeing family lineup. Now the Biggest Boeing 737MAX will be able to carry around 230 passengers and the smallest Boeing 787 around 350. Since the Boeing 767 passenger version has also stopped production, Boeing has nothing to fill that part of the market and fend of the Airbus A321 family. So what will Boeing do? Would it be possible to create a new version of the beloved 757/767?
In todays video I will pick that possibility apart and see if, at the end, it would make sense to do this or if it would be smarter to concentrate on a new aircraft.
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The name "UltraFan" sounds like it came from an engineer who has watched UltraMan WAY too many times....
The continued dimming and then brightening back of the screen, while playing this video.. made me fear that there were issues with my devices.
Scam
I'm just imagining the entire Boeing marketing team having a simultaneous stroke upon hearing the words "757 Max".
😂😂
Yup, it’ll be a decade of safe flights before that name stops worrying the casual flyer. I am guessing they’d just give it a solely new number name or call it something like the 757-XLR. The airlines wouldn’t want MAX in the name either. Edit: I now disagree with myself. I’d say most flyers are likely are over any worries about the Max.
I wonder if the marketing team looked at Apple when they named their new 737. "What does Apple call their latest version of successful phones? The iPhone 10 MAX. Ok, the Boeing *737 MAX* it will be!"
BTW, There is also a iPhone 10/11/etc. PRO. Hint hint Boeing, what about the *757 PRO* . And then in few years, when the MAX suffix has lost its negative image, the *767 PRO MAX* .
@@The_ZeroLine a 757x is more likely
757-600/700 sounds better
I've been on the 757 many times as passenger, and it's been my favorite plane to fly on. It takes off like a bat outta hell at my home airport.
And they flex
757-300 is not the world's longest single aisle aircraft. That distinction goes to the longer variants of the DC-8 Super 60 and Super 70 series, namely DC-8-61, -63, -71, & -73, which are about 9 feet longer than 757-300.
757-300 is the world's longest narrow body _twin jet_ , since DC-8's have four engines.
Awesome! I learned something new!
@@MentourNow You may also be interested then to know that although there are no DC-8's remaining in passenger service, there are some still active as freighters. Current operators of the longest DC-8 variants include SkyBus Jet Cargo in Peru in South America and Trans Air Cargo in the Congo in Africa.
I would say you’re splitting hairs but you’re not. 😝 Two engines on this bad boy feel like rocket propulsion. 😎
I’ve heard that the DC-8 had floppy wings to distribute stress. Disconcerting for passengers.
@Benji P I’m not sure I know what you mean. Yes, I run a production company and have 4 people depending on the become from both channels.
Don’t you earn money on your job? Are you ashamed of that?
Some have wondered why Boeing Corporate chose to drag out yet another version of a 1960s-era 737 design rather than downsizing the much newer and popular 757 design. If you're not going to start from scratch, then at least opt for the newer option. An even better question is why Boeing fought rather than bought the Canadian design that became Airbus A220.
I've wondered this too. The 737 MAX 10 looks hideously stretched. It basically looks like a 757 but as a low rider that almost scrapes the ground, and has less doors. Meanwhile Airbus is chilling pretty good with the A320 and A321. I think the 737 is really turning into the definition of long in the tooth.
Instant karma.
Just after the MD merger the new short sighted management cancelled 757 production in the market downturn following 9/11, but they didn't just halt production they destroyed and scrapped out all of the production fixtures so there was zero chance of restarting production should demand change. Then they failed to acknowledge the giant gap in their lineup from the largest 737 to the 767(which was also scheduled to stop production, so really the 787) and put zero R&D into a design that could fill the gap. The current gap has the 787-8 MTOW is 250% of the Max10 ; at the time of 757 cancellation the 767-300[non-ER] or -200ER is ~200% of the 737NG-900. For reference the traditional step size in any company's model line-up has been about 1.3*MTOW from the largest variant of of one model to the smallest variant of the next.
Monroe doctrine led to bombardier turning to airbus when Boeing initiated 300 percent tariff because it wasn't made in USA. Free trade ? Yea right!
Airbus sure seems better managed than Boeing as evidenced by the A220 deal.
I worked on the 757 (all versions) from 1985 - 2020. They were head & shoulders my favorite plane. They were a blast to taxi too, either to the run-up pad or to the gate, ready to go.
Amazing Video! So glad you have a place to share about the economics and politics of aviation!
Thanks for that! We will always have a place for industry news on this channel. 😎
I loved the 757, too, and very puzzled when it ended. I haven't flown since 2002, but 757 was my new favorite as there were less 747s (my fav) in the air, as it took routes from the 747, at least the airline I was flying. The 757 was smaller than the 747, but very tolerable for several hours, and had the modcons. Note that the only time I flew economy in a 747, it was very low capacity. I imagine the 757 was much better in that regard than the middle seat, middle row on a full 747. Thus better to design for economy than business or first class, it would seem.
What about creating a 787-7 with composites and a smaller aircraft? They probably could use GENX and just a shorter fuselage (maybe even similar length to 737 or a little longer with two aisles), and they would get plenty of range and power from the already existing engine, and an airframe that is virtually the same as they already have, making certification much easier. They could also bridge any gap there with a 737-11 MAX, although I don't know if they can stretch it more than the -10.
They looked into this also and ultimately scrapped it because at the time the economics weren’t there. But who knows…with this state of the company they might just bring it back.
This airframe should be the basis for a 757 replacement. But they dropped the ball of course. I'll be shocked if they re-visit it.
The answer is easy, the 321 / XLR has taken over this market segment and there is no chance for Boeing to fill this gap in the next 10 years or later, given that the XLR will fly for 10-15 years at least. There is simply no need, nothing that a 737-10 couldn't do or a 787 on a longer range flight with better load factor. The typical 3 class config on a 757 only fits slightly more pax but the jet is less efficient and requires longer runways. It's a power house (love the 757) but it's almost overkill for its purpose. For typical flights in that range economy only layout will become the norm, no one is willing to pay First on a 4 hour flight
@@noahwilliams8918 Yes, the 787-3
Not innovative. Boeing needs new designs, not spare parts.
1:17 the 757-300 is the world’s longest twin jet narrow body. The longest narrow body title still goes to the DC-8-61, 63, 71 and 73
I find 757s aesthetically pleasing. Add that to the power and I am sad there won’t be more built. Kennedy Steve said in an interview they were his favourite to work with as they could do whatever he asked. The worst was apparently the A340-300
Underpowered right?
The greatest challenge of any heavy industry is not to meet the immediate demands of today but to meet the demands of the decades to come. When you have accountants making the major decisions to satisfy share holders first and foremost, it's eventually going to lead to a lack of innovation, a lack of forethought, a lack of long-term thinking. That's where investors have to be smarter about what they're investing in, otherwise we get a 737MAX. If instead of pulling the plug on the 757/767 programs as a knee-jerk reaction to the temporary reduction of travel, Boeing put those programs on trickle realizing that there would likely be a resurgent demand down the line, they would have been prepared for things to come. Perhaps they would have had designs to meet it? As much as I would like to have faith in businesses as large as Boeing, I still think it comes down to taking chances and luck. No one thought the 747 would be as successful as it was. I doubt the engineers of the 707 in the 50s would have ever thought much of the DNA of that aircraft would survive recognizably 70 years into the future. Case in point: Right now A380s are ceasing production and they are even being scrapped! Hmmm, do you think it's likely that human beings are going to stop reproducing at alarming rates? Sure it would be nice if less of us were mucking about this planet but that's fairly arrogant of me to say considering I'm already here. Given we're not likely to stop, is it more economical to fly 700+ people in 3 smaller jets or in 1 larger? So what is Airbus going to do in 15 years when the A380 is a more viable aircraft in places like China where even short haul flights might have a 500 passenger demand?
"If instead of pulling the plug on the 757/767 programs as a knee-jerk reaction to the temporary reduction of travel, Boeing put those programs on trickle realizing that there would likely be a resurgent demand down the line, they would have been prepared for things to come."
Airbus, of course, has made exactly the same mistake with the A380. Now all over Asia carriers are starting to scream for them on thick routes with constrained airport slots - exactly the market for which the 380 was developed (NOT Emirates-style ultra longhaul - that was a bonus) but which with one thing or another took longer to emerge than anticipated.
@@kenoliver8913 Agreed and I said the exact same thing at the end of my original comment. Cheers!
Let me see. The 757 will need new, larger engines of course. That means modified wing plus of course longer landing gear (otherwise we get 737Max issues) - so redesign those. Now the cockpit will need to be a modern glass one. That will enable fly-by-wire, which is so much more efficient and a lot easier to make redundantly safe. But that means a heavily modified empennage (which the aerodynamicists will want for the new wing anyway). That leaves the aluminium tube for the fuselage. But we can save a lot of weight replacing that with a more modern Al-Li alloy.
Of course it is still a 757 ...
The 757-300 profile taking off and landing is like praying mantis. It’s so sexy. I love that plane. I was working at Continental Airlines when they cancelled the program and it just didn’t seem like its time should be over.
Yes. Just upgrade it and get it going! Airlines LOVE the 757 and so do the passengers. Get going Boeing!
In order to retain the old glory it would be good for Boeing to continue the 757 model designation and just add the -800, -900.
The largest aircraft I ever was on was the Lauda Air 767 that came down over Asia not a year later. My favourite plane to fly in was the DC-9. Going up in that just felt cool.
I was involved with 787 manufacturing and assembly for several years. Boeing was not interested in designing new airplanes in the near future. It was all speculations from media and customers. The new plane would have to be made with composite body and wings. It is not easy to setup manufacturing for composite. Boeing have learned the difficulty of construction from 787 wing in Japan and 777X in Everett.
Boeing's bread and butter are 737, 787, and 777X. They are not going to design new until these products are stabilized. The 787-7 could fill the gap if there are enough demand.
I flew in N501US “City of St. Paul” one of NWA's first 757s in late August of 1985, MSP to LGA, going off to college. I remember that we landed and seemed to be taking a very long time to brake, with the pilot applying the brakes in short bursts, rather then continuously. We ended up on the runway extension out into the East River, beyond the last cross taxiway, so had to turn the airplane 180 on the runway, and taxi back. I don't recall if the crew said anything about it, I think they mostly acted like it was a normal landing. I do recall wondering, since they'd made such a big deal about it being a new type, if the pilot had many hours landing it, yet.
Many airports in the US also need to set up two boarding bridges to efficiently turn around long narrow-body passengers jets.
Some important facts you ommitted:
The 787 was the replacement for the 767. Boeing saw it lose 767 sales to the A330, so designed the 787 to be a 330 killer. It was designed as 8 across with similar capacity. Only problem: it didnt sell. (and that was despite Airbus waivering on whether to do a 330-neo or new aircraft (which became the 350). Boeing saw success in the 787 when it densified the cabin to 9 across which made airline accountants happy.
It was the airline accountants that wanted the bigger capacity, which increased gap between the 737 and 787. And guess what, the 787-9 is the most popular one, so accountants weren't too interested is that gap between 737 and 787-9.
Similalry, Boeing also densified the 777 to 10 across seating (despite being designed as 9 across as replacement for DC-10/L1011/MD11 aircraft) which ended up killing the 747 that still had pleasant wide seats.
The 767 was a terrible aircraft because it was good for passengers. It added only one seat per row compared to 737 but with all the added structural cost of twin aisle and huge wings. And remember that there was commonality between 757 and 767 cockpits as they were built as a pair.
The 737 MAX debacle also resulted in the FAA no longer rubber stamping certificates when Being just claimed "derivative". So derivatives are hampered not only by their old roots but now bear certification costs similar to totally new aircraft (which have far mroe modern designs and advantages).
A 757 derivative would have all those certification costs, and be an orphan with old 757 cockpit that has no commonality wth 737 or 787.
Boeing also learned that its 1960s 737 has reached end of line. And Airlines are not exactly buying many 737-7s they go for the bigger ones. (and the A220 and Boeing's planned purchase of Embrare would fill the low end of 737 anyways).
My guess is that Boeing is planning a replacement for narrowbody that will encompass between 757 and 737-8 and leave gap below for the A220 and whatever Embraer offers (and perhaps will re-ignite its plan to buy Embraer should Boeing fix its own house first).
Airbus greatly benefited in late 1980s and 1992 from a brand new A320 airraft family while Boeing just put on new engines on the 1960s 737 wtill runing on ropes between cocpit and wings and vaccuum tubes for the little electronics it did have. Keeping the 737 type certificantion meant keeping cockpit functionally the same (hence need to hide MCAS).
But if Boeing in 21s century launches a totally new modern narrowbody, Airbus will be the one stuck with the older aircraft that it tries to put new engines on. The trick is to wait till that new narrowbody has the right tech and of course new compelling engines. (and climate change may be a big factor in this). By now, Boeing has good idea of which bet for the 787 ended up paying off and which are c0sting way too much. (one piece fuselage sections, all electric design including brakes, etc). So it could likely build a "best of both worlds" aircraft that includes the best of the 787 as well as best of conventional airdraft.
The bigger question is how they will announce it. Start with the biggest variant to compete against 321 and 767 and slowly work the way down to progressively replace 737s? Or one kassive new announcement for full range from 737-8 to 757 range? Doing it this way means one aircraft family with commonality for cikpits, and spares, engine etc.
Thank you for sharing...
I love this aircraft as well. I have flown on them for many years. I have flown them from LAX to Hawaii a few times in my former airline career...
Apparently the 757 had one of the most efficient wings. Its wake vortices are pretty vicious as of result
Mr Mentour, it seems like every week a new plane is announced by Boeing or Airbus. Are you able to do a video of what planes have been announced and when the expected ETA is and what they planes are used for I.e short, medium and long range.
The Boeing 757 was very successful on the route from LAX and SFO to destinations in Hawaii and zicelandair loved them
If engines are starting to get too big for under the wing, then why not position them above the wing like on water planes?
Why not a Boeing 767-200 NextGen? Boeing has the advantage of producing the 767 currently in the Freighter versión.
From a purely marketing point of view I doubt that they will produce anything called the "Max" again at least for a few decades, X Pro or ultra all fit the bill. I'm still reasonably surprised that they stopped production of the 757, especially without a replacement but I doubt that they could realistically restart production again. It's rather ironic that the 757 which was built to accomodate more powerful engines now finds itself in a gap in engine production where the engine manufacturers have squeezed everything in to the 737 platform. I'm surprised that the NMA development was stopped - I completely understand that they wanted to focus on the 737max problem but it does seem a bit short sighted, nothing new there though. Restarting 757 production would seem like a step backwards compared with completing the NMA... that said it would almost certainly have been better to have developed a new/modernised version of the 757 rather than going with the 737max (IMHO). I take the point of Airbus reacting to Boeing doing either NMA or 757"Max" but it very much sounds like there's a gap in the market which Airbus is likely to fill if Boeing doesn't do anything anyway. Personally I feel that Boeing has somewhat lost its way as a company recently... although perhaps they're up to something that they're not telling us...
Yes!! I adore the B757.
Just please keep the cool cockpit !
sure hope so
Wouldn't it be easier to build something like a 737MAX-12, just like what airbus did with the a321xlr
Found the Icelandair 757s to be more comfy than Deltas.
I recon Boeing will make a new shorter 787 or 737 vairient
I can't imagine Boeing using the word MAX in the name of any aircraft / upgrade.
@Mentournow I got a question can a elevon system be implemented on at t tail commercial jet airplane so that Alaska flight 261 tragedy never happens?
Expanding and improving on b757 was a better option than the b737.
The 757 is my favorite plane; hate the 737, always have. Bring back the 757.
I'm always wondering why airbus can build and test aircrafts so much faster and seemingly easier than boeing
Because Boeing got bought by the perennial failure McDonnell Douglas with Boeing's own money, whereupon the McDonnell management started firing everyone with talent that they could, and moving those they were forced to keep under the control of incompetent bureaucrats.
My S/O works at boeing. Lemme put it this way. They have a poster up that says we hire for diversity not for talent and many of the people they hire need a moronic amount of training to get to an acceptable level. Dont get me wrong i dont mind diversity and am literally not trying to be a bigot. But regardless of race, if your going to be hireing the guy who cant tell the diffrence between a microchip and landing gear just to meet a quota....well your going to have issues....and yes this was an actual thing. Guy mixed up a blueprint for a landing strut with a microchip diagram and spent 3 weeks fighting and sabatogeing the team working on a plane because he didnt want to admit he was wrong. Another guy they hired was supposed to be good with turbines.....and he had no idea what half the parts were called or even for in a turbine and had to be retrained from scratch just to do the single job he was hired for.
Combine that with bloated investors and shareholders who throw a snit if a product doesnt make a 10,000% profit over design cost within months (again this is literal) meaning most design teams are working with gear from the 50s and 60s due to lack of budget ontop of all the other issues they have had the last few years......
Well they still make a good plane. But that plane is spat out by a bloated wobbleing jiggleing mass of bloat, poor ideas, undertrained and unqualified staff fighting the qualified staff and ageing equipment that 3/4th of the new guys dont even know what it is or does, god forbid how to actully use it. That tends to slow things to a glacial pace at best.
@@arcticfox5118 "... guy who cant tell the difference between a microchip and landing gear ...". WOW! JUST WOW! There is a mountain to climb.
@@arcticfox5118 this is just overwhelming , it's sad how boeing have fallen over the last two decades
Regarding Russia, you said in one of your videos that they would start to struggle with the maintenance of the aircraft and flying fleet, haven’t seen much of it so far when do you think it will happen.
That light behind you looks like a mic lol
Another great video. Along with outstanding graphics and animation. I would love to see Peter do a interview with his team members helped create Is Awesome videos. I think this would be a great way to highlight his team and give them the exposure they need
I'm sorry, but if the RR Ultrafan is too big to fit on a 777x, what's it supposed to fit on?
İs boeing*
Fixed.
@@MentourNow İ was joking lol
@@Minecrafter14321 But Petter's a professional pilot so he has to take EVERY warning and alarm seriously, even the false ones! 😁
[Just kidding.]
@@EleanorPeterson lol yeah
@@EleanorPeterson but it was false i said the proper thing thinking that he wouldnt even see my comment but here we are
Boeing sold their souls to southwest. The hotrod was amazing they just needed a little better fuel efficient engine, it was substantially overpowered which no pilot will complain about
What Boeing should do instead is create a new replacement for the 737 but with a variant that can replace the 757
My first flight on a 757 was from San Diego to LA to DFW in March 1984 in first class on AA. I was amazed of the power on take off and then how far the engines wound down when we got to altitude. Gotta be a reason Donald Trump went for the 757 too.
Good luck getting passengers for those max's delta. I'd rather have dahmer drive me there.
They could go back to one of the not quite as Max 737 configurations
Do it please i miss the 757
For my point of view, 757bis better than 737 at any field.
If I was Boeing, I had to discontinue 737 from 1995 before new Gen and progress the 757
Is this the ‘flying pencil’?
No that's the A340-600.
@@Mark-oj8wj aah ok. Thanks!
make a new version of the 707?
Do you think Boeing will ever recover with their stock going back up to $400? thanks
I flew the Boeing 757-200 for 15 years and almost 10,000 hours. I am now retired after 29 years flying for United and I can say that the 757 was the finest commercial airliner I ever flew. I can recall taking off from Orange County John Wayne Airport on a very short 5,700 foot long runway. I was able to make the takeoff with 182 passengers and fly to Newark non stop and land with 1.5 hours of fuel remaining.
Loved the 757. A refresh would be great.
Have they called you yet and begged you to come back? Maybe even offer to magically make you younger? Please think about it. We need good pilots.
Is it true that the 757 has a shorter take off distance than the 737?
Boeing really screwed up in the last 15 years by letting their bean counters ruin the company. Profits were more important than maintaining a viable company. The last several years have proven that. Many many many flaws in their designs and incompetent leadership. There does not seem to be any plans beyond the 787 and 737 Max. 15 years ago they were laughing at Airbus. Airbus has and continues to show them up. Boeing needs to get their act together and start competing better with Airbus.
@@320dak another thing Boeing is going to screw up is moving their head quarters to Virginia to be closer to the pentagon which would be a mistake. They need to move back to Renton so they can be closer to their airline customers rather than the government
I flew the 757 from 1990 to 2019, around 14000 hours, superb machine
Lucky bastard
757 is a wonderful jet. They should make a 797 in the image of a 757.
I've always wondered if Boeing is avoiding the model number "797" since it kind of sounds like the end of an era. I mean what comes after 797? They've made everything from 707 from 787 already. (Technically they didn't really design the 717 as it was just a modernized and modified DC-9-30 inherited from MD.)
@@skyhawk_4526 They'll just have to embrace the Hip-Hop era and make an 808.
Remember the 7J7??
@@toriless I forgot about it but when I looked it up, I actually do remember this. There was a show called "Beyond Tomorrow" on in the late 80s, early 90s (later it was called "Beyond 2000") and they showcased this aircraft. Again as I said in another comment on here, ever since the bean counters took over, there has been way too much knee-jerk short term thinking. It was dropped because oil prices were dropped but that wouldn't last for long. The headways Boeing could have made with that technology might have been worth the initial investment now that fuel prices are significantly higher even adjusted for inflation.
Unfortunately, as of now, it looks like the 97 will be a 67 replacement..
The 757-300 was an upgraded version of the -200, with a longer fuselage, upgraded wing, engines and cockpit. It's truly a great aircraft. There is a wonderful video on UA-cam,regarding the version and its enhancements. So well designed. Dependable. A true workhorse.
But it didn't sell well
The -300 had a bizarre story. Only 55 were made, and the line was shut down. 5 years later every airline wanted them! All 55 are still in service and over 22 years old.
I actually think the Boeing 757 is the best looking plane of all time, it’s so thin and good looking in my opinion, I know the fuselage nose aerodynamics aren’t modernly efficient but i hope they don’t change it.
Boeing's type-rating commonality between the 757 & 767 was genius! Delta & United in particular love the flexibility this creates. They know their business but I've always questioned why a continuation of 75/76 lines rather than the 737 wasn't chosen. They seem to, at least, have poor judgement of timing.
I also question Boeing's judgement in cancelling the 717. The 717 (MD95) was designed as an efficient & modern replacement of the DC-9... but they stopped production a whole decade before Delta retired their DC-9s. To this day, Delta, Hawaiian, and Qantas say they would buy as "as many 717s as they could get".
I think the 737NG was much cheaper to build and covered the needs of 95% of short haul operations. The MAX does it even better.
@@philipjamesparsons I agree 100%... except the end result has left the now troublesome gap in the product line that Petter has indicated. Customers have indicated that all the product lines would be purchased.
The other possibility would have been narrowbody developed concurrently with the B787.
Effectively what they'd codenamed "Yellowstone 1". Which the B737-MAX replaced in 2011
Neither the B757 nor B737 can take ULDs in the lower hold. The B767 only takes the LD2 (and LD8) since it has a narrower fusellage than other wide bodies.
@@Dana_Danarosana A 717 seats 134 people; a 737-MAX7 seats 138. Why do you need both?
Boeing 737 should have reached end of its life in early 2000's insted of the 757.
The 737 had many upgrades over the years where as the 757 did not. Same old engines, same old Avionics. Boeing ran the same design from early 80s
@@chrisheffernan7540 They did design two new winglet designs for 757. Also the some have upgraded the avionics to fit large displays like UPS and Fedex. Also the RR engines did change from early models to newer. I agree that they should have done more. But still you cannot say that there isn't any upgrades to 757.
@@randomdriver U cant bullshit me. I work on these things every day. I am a Lead mechanic with 30 years experience on 757s. The Avionics is the same as it was in 1981. The large screens is for viewing only. This does not upgrade the Avionics in any way. As far as the wing goes it may have changed, but the engines are fuel efficient but would need upgrading for a redesign. I've worked at United and Fedex
@@chrisheffernan7540 Still the 757 would have absolutely been a better platform to develop than the ancient 737.
@@randomdriver Not disagreeing with you there. It is a great jet. Wish Boeing would of kept up with it.
I've only flown on a 757 a handful of times but those things always seemed to takeoff like a rocket. While I'd love to see the 757 revived and I'm sure Boeing could do it, I don't think it'd be worth their time and effort to do so when they could likely design a new aircraft for probably not more more commitment of time and financial resources.
You just never know eh?
yes, and having center point problems solved by faulty software and we have a repetition of boeings problems
theirs a reason why people call the 757 a rocket ship
Being a Delta frequent flyer, I fly on the 757 almost as much as the 737 or A320. It's definitely a huge performance difference from those two. As a passenger, I also appreciate its ability to board through the 2L door rather than having to board 1L like the 737 and A320 families. While the A321 does have a 2L door, at least here in the U.S., airlines generally have no approved using it for boarding because it's too close to the wing and, thus, it would put the jet bridge too close to the #1 engine for their comfort. They don't want jet bridge operators driving jet bridges into jet engines.
Well if the 737 didn’t have its issues and Covid didn’t hit, the 777X would have flown in 2020 and we would’ve seen Boeing unveil the 797NMA which would’ve gone into service by 2025. Now the 737 is starting to get back in service, the 777x is delayed to 2023/24 and the 797NMA is no longer prioritized, and will likely be unveiled 2026/28 at the earliest. What’s known is whatever high tech version they had planned won’t come until after 2030, so if we do get a 797NMA it’s gonna be on current technology which means it’s gonna be based on the 787. But. The 787 production is currently frozen due to FAA finding technical issues which are causing a substantial backlog in orders. So until those technical issues are sorted, the 797 will likely be delayed on that as well. Boeing is unbelievably fucked right now, the entire management level needs to get cleaned out.
The 737 Max was basically a progression towards the 757. A 757 with the 787 wing technology and the geared fan engines would make an excellent aircraft for the airlines. Pilots who fly the 757 love it, a real hot rod.
The MAX was an attempted cheap knock off of the 57.
I remember when Delta CEO, Ed said he wanted to be the launch customer of the NMA. There just isn't a 1:1 replacement for the beautiful 757, the A321XLR is close and I figure they will eventually add it to their order book if Boeing does not commit to a replacement.
American Airlines ordered 737-maxes before Boeing even started prototypeing. Delta now order 757Max, in 2030 we don't have oligopoly (duopoly) but only Airbus and some China Russia jet
@@mateuszzimon8216 we won't see anything China Russia even in 2030
@@henson2k China make ARJ 21, maybe in 2030 we get a commercial plane without "western" technology.
Or they just steal plans how bulid Overture.
its a replacement that you really dont want, but you dont have a choice the face it will be 😌
@@henson2k the latest Chinese plane is 60% American. So it might have a slim chance to be exported.
First flew on a 757, I think, in February 1985. The upgrade from the aged 727's was fantastic! Still love both their performance and appearance. Bring it back!
They had a fantastic formula in the 757, an overpowered narrow body. The next gen 757 should sport two Trents :)
And bucket seats for the passengers haha?
The 757 is the best thing Boeing built since the B-52. I loved working on it for the years we had them. The frontal view is menacing and sleek. It looks like a bird of prey. The Rolls-Royce RB211-535C was an amazing engine, although the thrust reverser was a pain in the butt. I was greatly saddened when we parked the last 75 at Roswell. No other airliner does what the 757 did. We fly Airbus A319's where the Boeings used to go, but they have half the passenger and cargo capacity. The only thing I didn't like about the 757 was that it took forever to deplane the passengers, which made for little time to fix interior items. I still get a smile when I see a United or Delta 757 taxi by.
Why the trhust reverser was a pain?
The 767 production line is still operating, to buid Air Force fuelers. It seems to me that it would be better to design a new commercial aircraft based on the 767 fuselage, to use this production line when the KC-46 production ends.
The plan is to build only about 120 KC-46s over the next five years -- that's basically two a month. Airbus builds four A321s every week. The 767 production line isn't on anything like the scale needed to compete with Airbus.
Don't they still make the 767 freighter as well?
@@ClichedGem Good point, but they're only building two or three of those a month, too. So, unless their production line is way-overspecced for their current output, it's not capable of competing with he A321.
@@beeble2003 True, but the most important part is that they have working examples of all the machinery needed to do it... and Boeing apparently melted the 757 machinery for scrap metal.
@@marhawkman303 Yes, and they have people who currently have the skills of making the planes, who can teach those skills to new hires.
I love 757s: they're just the best looking airliner ever built with that tall gear, slender wings and fuselage, and that tall tail. There's also something about the design of the nose that just makes the aircraft look a bit menacing as well: it's a very handsome bird. Sounds wicked at high power settings and just rips off the ground. Icelandair still use a big fleet of them: I love the fact that when you book a flight with them from the western US, you know you'll be hopping on a 757. Normally I don't really care about what type I'm flying on, but seeing 757s just makes me happy.
Have only flown on a United 757 once Washington to SFO. Was memorable thanks to listening to Channel 9 discussions between pilots, United Maintenance and, eventually Boeing, about a strange engine behaviour during taxi. We ended up going to a remote area, shutdown and restarting the engines before taking off. They cut the channel mid diagnosis so don't know what caused but we got there OK!
I love listening to ATC and things like that when I'm flying.
The good ‘ole “just turn it off and back on again” while it doesn’t always work it often does.
I've flown in the back of a 757 more times than I can remember. As a kid I always wanted to fly on the wide-body aircraft (like the L1011, DC-10, 767) just because I thought it was so cool being in a bigger plane. That said, knowing what I know now and how pilots love the 757 "hot rods" I have a new respect for them every time I fly. I've also come to love that dolphin nose look that's only similar to the L1011. I think the last time I flew on one was recently out to Hawaii. My most memorable one though had to be a few years back flying from SNA to Reagan. That was a crazy tight final that freaked me right out.
United was the only airline to offer Channel 9 for its customers, but left the decision to use it to the captain of the flight. I ALWAYS used it.
hope not, as a passenger, they have been far from comfortable to fly in
Everyone is wandering around, scratching their heads about why Boeing isn't doing this, or why did they cancel that. Boeing is very close to financial insolvency - that's why. There's been so many mistakes and disasters at Boeing they're very nearly bankrupt.
Confirmed. The reason why they pulled out of the takeover of Embraer is that they couldn't afford to do the deal anymore (MAX, 787 etc). That was my first indication that Boeing was short of cash, then they canned the 797 and that just confirmed it. Even the 777-9 debacle is an example of cash shortage. A fully cashed-up company would just throw resources at the problems and get them fixed quick, but Boeing can't do this.
YEEEEEEEEEEEEES! Just waiting for it to go extinct!
I believe the time has come for Boeing to make a more efficient and light-weight 757-8 or 757 MAX. Call it what you will. That could help replace the current 757s that are still in service and currently outdated.
The best approach is to use the same carbon composite material that is used to construct the Boeing 787 Dreamliner and using GEnx engines, too.
I don’t think they would call it the 757MAX for some reason 😅
😂😂😂
I worked on the 757 through the upgrade mods. Avionics and winglet mods. I always wondered why they got rid of them. They had a company out doing 3D scans of the leading edge slats as there were no replacements.
Loved the B757.Sitting at crew position 4 at the back, on a toga takeoff or even derated (RB 211 535E4 engined) it went skywards like a homesick angel,was just an awesome experience
That baby was built to fly and looked the bees knees as well.
Insightful video though Petter.
I would for sure love to see her back but at least they are still operational as freighters for now.
It's a very powerful plane. I remember taking a 757 freighter to a nearby airport for a C check. Completely empty and needing a max thrust take off as part of the maintenance process to prove that max thrust was really available. Pinned back in my seat, it must have been gaining speed at 15kts per second and we were airborne in no time. Problem is, such power does not truly add anything for the airline (beancounters) unless they fly from short or high runways.
@@philipjamesparsons ,that is the problem with airlines being run by said beancounters.
We do not have many "hot and high" airfields in europe apart from the mediteranean ones in summer but still we used them here,perfectly suited to the task.
One area that you failed to mention is avionics. I worked for company that developed EFIS for 757 & 767. You would have to develop a completely new avionics package for aircraft. That would involve recertification which is a time consuming and expensive process. The other thing that you have to take into consideration is we would build a product for 20 to 25 years. It used to be that you would make very few design changes over lifetime of that product not anymore. In other words one of the challenges that you face today is obsolete parts. Or to put another way when you come out with a new product today within 3 to 5 years you have to do redesign work because parts are no longer available period you don't have a choice. Oh and software throws a whole another monkey wrench into this process.
Very nice thank you for this!
The issue with the MAX's defective stability augmenting system was not the system or even Boeing.
You alluded t it in your post above.
Its Regulations.
Boing would have had to RE-CERTIFY an ANCIENT airplane design to appease the FAA and global aviation authorities. Not because the larger engines made the airplane unsafe or unstable but simply because IT CHANGED how the airplane might feel to the pilots, and therefore wild not meet its 30+ year old type certificate requirements, had to be re-certified UNLESS they could make the airplane fly exactly the same even with its lower slung, larger engines.
This situation is entirely due to ancient 2/3 of a century old FAA regulations that need to die so that reason can live.
Waittttt what😲... parts not available in 3 to 5 years you say!!!
Are you sure you aren't talking about the cheapish/copycat mobile phones from a Xiaomi, Opposite, Vivo and not about airships... some of which (thanks to continued parts replacements) work for even 3-4 decades.
Justin J... you are starting to sound like a capitalist .indeed.. Board member or marketeer
@@sailaab Yeah that surprised me. I used to work for a major telecommunications manufacturer and our standard contract with customers was we'd support HW for a minimum of10 years after it was regarded EOL. Sure as apples our contract with suppliers would have had similar wording.
757 is still a favorite for pilots , mechanics, and passengers. The max version would be wonderful.
Also controllers. Loved working the 757. Great climb rate. Mach.80.
Been a mechanic for almost 25 years. Worked on all Boeing 727+. Loved working on the 757! At 6'2" loved being able to walk underneath the plane.
Always loved the 757! American Airlines used to operate its morning Miami flight in the past, I remember going to the airport just to see (well, HEAR it take-off)
Always wanted to travel on a 757 as well
It's BEAUTIFUL!!! I think they called it the luxury-liner because of how high it was?
nah american airlines use luxury on every plane in the fleet back in the day
Back in the day it was a luxury to fly. With deregulation in 1978 flying eventually became nothing more than a Greyhound in the sky. Nothing luxurious about it at all these days.
LuxuryJet for narrow bodies. LuxuryLiner for widebodies.
@@vonSoest Yes… air travel was “luxurious” prior to deregulation, but it was also financially out of reach for the bulk of the middle class. You either had to be upper middle class or traveling on an corporate expense account to afford it.
757 is prob my fav plane of all time
I love it to!
Boeing was once upon a time an exciting engineering company that released innovative new products, which is exactly what Airbus has become
Read “Flying Blind”. If your management tells your engineers that an aircraft is a commodity like a toaster.. it doesn’t bode well for the company.
Absolutely right... Boeing is dead and only not very intelligent people would prefer to fly on its airplanes...
@@JimAllen-Persona I know of 40 year old toasters that work better than modern ones, the same isn't always the case for an airplane... Unless you fly cargo.
Scarebus sucks! They are always playing catch-up. Their designs are ugly and bring nothing new.
@@FW-od1lt Um yea right, everything in Boeings current lineup is historical, the 737 launched 1964, the 747 launched 1969, the 777 launched 1995, they only have ONE MODERN AIRCRAFT being the 787, which has quality control problems, the rest is retooled garbage from decades past and the MAX is the biggest joke in the history of aviation 🤣
Hi Petter, really good analysis of the 757 situation. As a 75 enthusiast, I would love nothing more. Commonality with the 767 made it a great addition to fleets which could adapt with demand changes. Iceland air being one example. It was a mistake to extend the 737 beyond the NG and prematurely end the 757. Although with the engine market as it is now, it's not likely a sufficient engine is available for a 757 revival. This is why Airbus A320 family is kicking the max and Boeing ultimately. Fingers crossed that one of the manufacturers has been quietly working on a project until a big reveal.
2:16 put a smile on my face. As a consultant back in the day, I did a bit of travelling and got familiar with the various aircraft I'd be on and the 757 was my favorite. "Sporty" is a great term for the thrusty takeoffs and the sound of the engines always put a smile on my face.
Ddd 4s
Taking off from Orange County/John Wayne would require us to set the park brake, run the engines up to maximum thrust, then release the brakes. The acceleration really snapped your neck back to the point that we had to warn the passenger to expect this prior to takeoff. We did this for 2 reasons; the short, 5700 foot long runway, and to fly the very challenging noise abatement profile. Their were noise sensor for about 2 miles off the end of the runway and is you set one off, it was a $25,000 fine. I once timed it and we got to 100 knots/115 mph in 9 seconds on one of of those takeoffs.
The Boeing 757 was a magnificent aircraft for style, performance, and riding comfort, and it's one I enjoyed flying in. Boeing, however, needs to stop stretching the 737. Once the "baby" Boeing, the 737 MAX -10 is now similar in size, range, and capacity as that of the classic Boeing 707-120. The 737 is now simply the "twin" 707 and with less tires.
The entire MAX design principle is UnAirworthy and a violation of FAA Safety of Flight - the aircraft cannot be flown manually - the pilots cannot override the computer and regain control - the aircraft should have never been built and should have never been approved or certified .. the FAA should GROUND the entire 737 MAX Fleet and rescind the Type Certificate .. there are going to be more crashes of the 737 MAX, with the Computers failing and driving the ships into the ground and the Pilots unable to do anything about it - guaranteed ..
@@bradhartliep879 You should do some research because what you said is just not correct.
Yes, it's difficult to fly manually, but so are most modern aircraft. The max is still an exceptionally well built plane with a good safety record.
The MCAS problem is something that should've NEVER happened(Southwest Airlines and Boeing need to pay for the deaths.) However, it has been fixed and the plane recertified.
I'm a big fan of the MAX 10 and I really want it to succeed. It doesn’t seem like Boeing is all too serious about it though based on things like what Ryanair is saying.
In the early 1990s, I was involved in the UPS re-engining of 727s - we did this at Dee Howard in San Antonio, replacing the PW JT8s with RR Tay 650s .. it's not that difficult .. we replaced all the steam gauges with a glass cockpit, rewired the fuselage with new avionics, removed the #2 Center Intake and replaced it with a larger diameter center intake, built new Engine Pylons for #1 and #3 Engine, built new Cowlings, and did a heavy D Check Inspection .. the same thing can [ and has been ] done on MD80s / MD 90s / B717s - lengthening / shortening the fuselage and replacing the engines and avionics - and the same thing can be done on 757s .. the 737 MAX was a massive mistake .. Boeing should have cancelled the 737 line after 737 NG and focused on reducing the operating costs of the 757 .. the 757 was a much better design with much better growth potential ..
I'm guessing the Engines were pre-approved for the aircraft. Upgrading the entire plane requires a lot more work.
I totally agree with your views on keeping the 757 going. Thanks!
Part of the problem is, there is no suitable candidate for re-engining the 757 as Mentour mentioned. CFM-Leap/PW1100G are too small, GE-NX is too big. There is no new generation engines in the power class of the RB-211s and PW2000, both those engines were designed in the 60s for the 747 and L1011
@@mrvwbug4423 that's right. Some planes are certified for several different engines. Boeing certifies with CFM, GE, and Rolls Royce. The 747 could use either the GE or Rolls Royce. It would just be the simple re-engine process as described in the Maintenance Manual. Putting a completely different uncertified engine onto a plane is a nightmare and tons of legal FAA red tape. Mentor Pilot talks a lot about safety and that's why.
But Boeing got an order for 50 of NG but in condition they make 50 new next gen for American Airlines. So basically they have order for 50 non existent plane.
That's why Max is slappy Joe and ended not so well for Boeing
The 757 has always been my favourite Boing aircraft and I've been lucky enough to fly in it many times. I always thought it an error to drop it in what appeared to be a hastey manor without an obvious replacement, especially with it's "hot and high" capabilities.
Hope they do, would be the most sensible decision they’ve made in years!
Check through the video and see if you still think so after.
@@MentourNow they just need to design a new aircraft with the same philosophy as the 757.
There is space in the market for it and the competition with airbus is healthy.
Nobody says they can’t use their new development mentality, in fact I believe that will bring them back on par with airbus and progress their commercial lines beyond their current capabilities.
I liked to fly in the rear section of the 757-300, only a few rows, pretty quiet. Took a long time to deplane, but it never felt as crowded during flight. The 75 and 73 use the same fuselage diameter so the Airbus single aisle being just a bit larger offer more room inside. As much as I love the 757 it makes more sense to do a 767 update with new wings and engines for reasons mentioned above. A new 757 wouldn't have the buzzing RB211s , so the classic 757 sound would be gone too, so there's that as well.
TLDR: Yes! Even IF they aren't at this moment they'll soon have to because of how strong the Airbus offerings in the segment are... Plus Nordic's love 757's for their large range and minimal seating for our oh-so-common long and thin routes! Edmonton-Keflavik for example or Edmonton-Oslo would clean up with a 757MAX!
Hey Mentor , if the engines of too big for the configuration of the 757 , do you think Boeing could design a high wing jet to fit the bigger engines?
The 757 is my all time favorite airliner. It’s the only jet I’ve been on that literally felt like being in a Lamborghini. The power is insane.
My favourite is the 787, but I like the 757 too! I'd say the 787 is also rather powerful!
Having flown on a Delta 757-200 twice in 2018, and once in 2019. I am in love with that aircraft, its spacious, and the shear power it has is impressive and noticeable even as a passenger. Taking off out of San Diego it rolled down the runway and climbed like a rocket. By far my favorite aircraft.
Like the B737, it's 6" narrower than the A320series. It also rattles and is much noisier. Airbus planes arr just superior even it comes to passenger comfort. I'm always amazed at how unobjective most people's opinions are.
757 Has been my favorite plane for a long time. It's the hotrod of airliners.
The DC-8 was a longer single isle airliner but it had 4 engines. The 757-300 was the longest single isle airliner for the twin engine class though.
The DC8 is never coming back. Out of 556 hulls made there were 84 crashes. Pretty deadly airplane
@@chrisheffernan7540 What did that have to do with anything? No plane in the 50's had a good safety record compared to today. How many of those accidents were due to design flaws instead of pilot error, mantience error, pilot suicide, etc? You need to look at this from a 3 dimensional point of view.
@@ejkk9513 I dont need to look st anything. I gave you a fact, now swallow it
@@chrisheffernan7540 Okay buddy. I suggest getting your mental health looked at. Nothing you said was even remotely sensible.
A re-design 75 in my view is still a wiser track to take. Why because they can kinda look into this project as a stepping stone to the NMA project. It doesn’t have to be an out of this world project. An upgrade of the wing is a must otherwise not a new aeroplane. An upgrade version of the GE engine currently in the stretch version can surely be talked to the manufacturer, but the most important is an airframe put in service to hold the fort for the time being whitst the NMA is in the pipeline. The issue with a brand new airframe is the breaking in face. Boeing needs an airframe that is with the existing technology that doesn’t need breaking in, already in operation and get it out inside of 5years. A kinda like a common sense aeroplane more than a scientifically spanking new sh-t…
I'm not a fan of the idea of a rejigged 757.
The 737 max was their last attempt at this and it speaks for itself.
I think the 757 is closer to what they actually need and the 737 wont be able to achieve. Plus it is far more modern airframe. This probably helps ... who knows. But yes, they need to avoid another frankenjet at any cost.
Lol. That had less to do with the base airframe and more to do with an entirely new automation system that was not sufficiently vetted.
They are very different. The 737 at this point has been stretched and modified repeatedly.
757 had a single stretch pretty quickly after it’s design and it’s got plenty of ground clearance with its current engines and landing gear.
1:18 the 757 is actually the 2nd longest. The DC-8 is the longest single isle aircraft ever created. Just thought I would add this in!
The 757 was one of boeings best aircraft it's made like a tank it just needs a upgrade to the cockpit and a way you go the rb211 is one of the most reliable engines ever made to
Professional pilot here of 40 years, with about 24,000 hours and 9 type ratings. I can say with great certainty, that of all my years in the air and all the planes that I have flown, nothing, I repeat, nothing gets close to the B757, which in my opinion is the finest airliner ever built! Boeing made a horrendous mistake when they shut down the production line...757 4EVER!
As a passenger I tried my best when booking a flight to get myself on the 757s. I have been on both 200 and 300 series. The 757-200 was so powerful that I use to go to Orange County Airport SNA and watch them take off. I have seen them take off and land using less then half the runway that is just around 6,000 feet long. I really hope they bring back the 757s