Welcome to mega-corp economics. JBL has for some time been just a brand of Harman Intl., itself now owned by Samsung, the corporate giant. Brands exist to evoke buying responses, and "JBL" is a nostalgia brand. Of course you know this, but I think we need to repeat it to ourselves all the time to break the magical spell _brands_ have over us.
I have the first version (not MKII) of the L82 and L52 Classics. Was not blown away out of the box but after they were broken in I love them. Running the L82 Classics with a 1980 Sansui 9900Z 160wpc receiver and they sound fantastic to me. Pop, rock, metal, jazz, electronic music etc. I really love them and was super surprised of your review for the MKII’s. I got them on sale for $1,979. Yes they are a bit colored but I enjoy that sound, no fatigue and can listen all day. The L52’s sound excellent for their size as well. I had a party and everyone was loving the sound of the L52’s cranked up. Sorry they didn’t work out for you, but I’m not hearing them as you described 🤷♂️
I did say if you listen at "Keg party levels", maybe they work for that? Maybe they are the one speaker on the planet that needs 500-1000 hours to break in? I gave them 50 hours and they still didn't do it for me. My RP600M, and these quad S2 sounded nice out of the box.
Always honest , and more importantly , true to yourself Steph , great to see . I don`t have any doubt about your claims . I have , at times , considered buying this particular brand and model , so now I can forget about that idea. I can almost feel your disappointment , as I listened to your review .
Great video as usual. Coincidence, I have the same Klipsch 600M's...and tonight I hooked up a tube preamp A/B amplifier (40 watts). Sounded great. Then I hooked up two tube preamp/D class 100W mono blocks...also sounded great but different. Those Klipsch have a transparent signature. They sound different with all 4 of my amps. Keep looking...good luck!
Thanks for the review. It probably makes sense for me to just get my vintage pair of JBL L56 from 1983 re-foamed. As their original owner, I know they sounded great and deserve to be preserved, back when JBL was made in America.
You may like the Cabasse Murano bookshelf speaker has 3-way, coaxial mid-tweeter and 7" woofer. Made in France, The coaxial BC13 midrange-tweeter has no fatigue and wide soundstage.
Most of all those reviewers, if not all, are paid reviewers. They are being compensated somehow, mostly being able to keep the product after they review them. It took me a very long time to understand what was going on and to identify who they are, but I am so much wiser now.
~15 years ago I picked up a pair of JBL L40s that needed woofer refoam for $10. Other than the woofer foams, they were in very good condition. After refoam gave them a listen. They had the hottest tweeters I'd ever heard in a set of speakers. Luckily, they also had the tweeter attenuation knob. After turning the tweeter level down a lot, they were listenable, but not great. Sold them to a young man looking for his first set of speakers.
These JBL are classic student speakers for delivering up loud slamming rock where finesse is not the main issue or any issue at all. That's also why they have the bold decorative muffler grill - they are selling style. Suggestion: get a pair of used Klipsch Forte II for about $900, you will not be disappointed.
I was lucky to grow up with the original speakers JBL my dad owns. My dad was an audiophile had high-end equipment for the time, I hope to get these speakers when my dad has no use for them.
I know there are lots of recommendations for Zu DW, but you might want to watch Gary’s analysis at GR Research. I know they aren’t expensive enough (ha ha) but Hsu CCB-8 is really nice; coincident, efficient and small. Plus they make great subs to go with them.
G'day, I bought a pair of JBL Stage 180 floor standers. About 88db. They sounded ok but not great. I eventually Mundorfed the cross over and they are now fantastic. Beautiful with the Skunk Works A10 modded amp. Thanks mate from tropical Australia.
Honest review !...........besides the problems the speakers do dominate the sound ! There are other ( resected ) audiophile brands doing the same to please .........with their inhouse sound ..
You might want to check Focal Aria Evo X No. 1. Good size for small spaces, very revealing without sharp treble, work well with tubes. Great for jazz. If you can find the previous generation (Focal Aria 906) you might get a good deal.
Thanks for your honest review, I guess they have fallen a long way from when they were truly JBL! are you going to try another speaker in the same general price range?
Everything you said makes perfect sense. If you can't hear the difference between different amps, the speakers are absolutely not what would be most appropriate for your use case.
I had a feeling you would get those results , Steph. I heard Madman across the water on Zu Audio Dirty Weekend speakers, $1500. Ogden Utah - Blown away.
You nailed it. I had these for about a week and then returned them. It sounded muddy and while they imaged okay they just sounded non-resolute. And the bass was actually kind of disappointing. Very one note. Plus the vinyl wrap is not very great looking. Especially at 3k. Looks more like cheap furniture from Walmart.
You should check out these speakers from aperion audio I just reviewed. This is what a $3000 speaker should look/sound like, and cost $1400 ua-cam.com/video/AVtShwjkmlc/v-deo.html
Hey skunkie, my recommmendatio for low-ish efficiency speakers are Elac. Far from 3 grand, not thwtthat they won't have anything there, but i recommend the debut series which is below 1k. But they can get into the real high end pricing wise and performance wise
I think you would be blown away with the Source Point 8. I think people have suggested the Zu bookshelf but it’s an oversized bookshelf as well. How about offerings from Triangle?
LOL, My friend and I always referred to that annoying upper frequency response as a "PIN".! It's like you just got poked in the ear with a pin... The titanium diaphragm JBL went to could have a lot to do with that.. All the early stuff JBL built say pre say 1980 used aluminum diaphragms.. Rock-On Stephe
Oh, no… So sorry to hear that, Stephe. I’ve only heard a few pairs of JBL’s, but mostly vintage ones, which weren’t bad. Pretty good if I remember correctly. At least you’ve got the Fyne speakers, which I think are probably a much better match with your tube amps. I’ll definitely be thinking of other speakers I’ve heard that I can recommend and let you know. Again, sorry the JBL were a disappointment. They certainly looked good on paper.
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronicsHi Stephe 👋 I did some thinking and wrote down before forgetting brands like Triangle, Elac, and Dali all make some reasonably priced nice bookshelf speakers you might wanna check out.
I had a pair of the L100' classics which I bought new, I never really liked them so I sold them and purchased Klipsch Cornwall IV speakers. I have never looked back.
Interesting your listening impressions of speakers that you are paring with various amps in your listening space.your topic of tube friendly speaker has been on my mind lately too.i haven't given it much thought as up to now, only tube amps i have are pp 10w and higher with plenty of negative fb so a reasonable low source impedance and some damping factor.but as i near completion of building some low power se amps some with no neg f b of any kind and 2 w ,ive been thinking about what speaker i have that would work well.the commercial speaker i have are all about 30yr+ of various shapes and sizes.my newer speaker are diy but most are well bellow 90 db/w.so im not going to recommend a particular speaker just guidelines im considering in selecting speakers for my low power se amps.1 sensitivity very important for 2w not so much for 8w.2 a relative flat impedance curve.3 good damping of low frequency resonance of driver(qt)4placement in room to minimize baffle step loss.2 to4 can be adjusted in existing speaker by zobels , stuffing enclosure,port tuning, crossover modification etc.an impedence chart and waterfall chart can tell you alot lot if can find them for a specific speaker.now none of this will guarantee you a good sounding speaker.but im hoping these guidelines narrow down the choice s and give a reasonable match for my newly completed amps.maybe these guidelines will help some one to make good match or tweak what they already have.lm probably going to build a couple of more speaker with these little amps in mind .one project will be with grs 8 bofu copies and tweets 100 dollars or less budget. .
Remember the JBL 4343 had single 15 inch woofer and 4350s had 2 _15 inch woofers both in a medium tan color. They looked beautiful AF. No one ever reviewed them. Remember JBL advertisement in Stereo Review magazine. Always remember them being associated with professional conditions such as recording studios. Never seen them associated with home use. Similar to Crown professional amplifiers. I owned a Crown VZ 3600 wicked clean sound . They put out 1100 what's per. Returned for a refund. They were not designed for audiophile use.
I'm using the Zu DX6 with my 6 watt SET Decware integrated for about two months now and it's a very good match. The super tweeter took a little getting used to. The 10 inch speaker sounds great and isnt too big for my very small room. I though it might be but its no problem. Fun listen. Makes me play air guitar.
Yep, I've used mine with a Cayin EL84 10 wpc, Willsenton R8, and Yamaha A-S3200 with great results. I did put the 25ohm load resistors on them that Zu sells to bring down the impedance from 12 to 9 ohm to make it easier on the tubes but I really couldn't detect any audible difference.
in the previous video comments I said I had to throw a pair of JBL speakers in the dumpster because they sounded so bad. this modern JBL stuff is just a name.
Sorry these didn’t work out for you, Stephe. Thankfully, they can be returned. You have a lot of people suggesting the Mofi Point Source, but I’m going to suggest that you already have a coax speaker that seems like it works for you. Why get another speaker that is based on the same design logic? I feel for the challenge your search presents. Small speaker, works with low power tube, full sound, dynamic etc…. It’s really too bad your space will not accommodate a larger box. One would think, given the not insignificant budget you have to spend on a pair of speakers, that there should be plenty of options out there. Sadly, that’s not the case. I’ve suggested the RM945 already, but I’m going to suggest Fritz Speakers. I have never heard them, and I’m not a measurement junkie by any stretch, but I know the crossover he uses in his speakers. I’ve built several pairs of speakers using this cross design and it makes the speaker an easy load for amps. Plus, he uses high quality drivers in his builds. Small manufacturer who is obviously motivated by passion. Remind you of someone?
I recommend the Sonus Faber lumina II before, which I am sticking to and I will add Kef r3 to the recommendation as I realise the ZU DWX is way big for your situation, hope you find something you enjoy
I have liked some of the British speakers in the past. Have a pair of the original ProAc Tablette 2.5s from years ago. The Tablettes have always been bass-light so perhaps not for your but they have larger speakers. Several other brands of UK speakers too, and used prices may be affordable.
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics Yes, I have a pair of 1TD-X that I drive with my R8. The last two months they have seen less action (out of precaution: our baby is starting to crawl and pull things over (including, I fear, tripod speaker stands), so for the moment they have been replaced by a beat-up second hand pair of PMC gb1i floorstanders that he can’t grab on to yet (also a good match with the R8, fortunately).
@SkunkieDesignElectronics That was QUICK, Stephe! LOL... But also a shame. ☹ Unfortunately, I had my doubts (as I commented in your initial video about them} just based on the design and the drivers JBL uses for these...and somewhat also based on Erin's Audio Corner test/review of their bigger brother. :( I love the classic looking blue grills, but otherwise it's just another speaker to me. And while I realize it was not the exact same speaker, it's also good to know that Erin's impression of their bigger brother lined up with your impressions of these similar JBL speakers in that series. Honestly, there is really NO EXCUSE for a company such as JBL to produce such a CRAP speaker, ESPECIALLY FOR $3K !!! WTH?! I really find it odd, though, because SOME of JBL's other models are REALLY REALLY GOOD. But I don't think any of the "New Classic" designs they offer are included in that group! 🤷♂ Luckily someone in your previous video had suggested the Fyne Audio speakers. 👍 SECONDARY/LOWER EFFICIENCY "BOOKSHELF" OPTION RECOMMENDATION: *Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1 V2* Can't hurt to TRY them. FYI, Erin was also impressed with them in his review, especially given their price. ;) - Less than $1k - 30-Day Satisfaction Guarantee - 7 Year Warranty - Designed, Engineered, Assembled, & Tested in the U.S.A. and they're available in a variety of nice finishes as well. Typical In-Room Frequency Response is 39Hz - 23kHz. Not too large, either: 14.25"H x 7.5"W x 10.5"D. Exclusive "V-LAM" cabinet construction featuring 20mm (13/16") thick vertically laminated BAMBOO with internal bracing. Maybe the only downside is that they have rear-firing port tubes. But if you have a Subwoofer to use with them, you can plug the ports and adjust the subwoofer X/O accordingly. Cheers.
Another good " test" inexpensive speaker is the Micca OoO. Its a bookshelf/center with dual 3 inch woofers. $110 for a pair. Surprisingly good for the money and then some, but only like 82db sensitivity....only 25watt max...would really be a great little pair for testing amps. Just for comparison on power.
Some speakers sound harsh. At least in the beginning. Have you played your JBLs a 100hrs? Some people get used to it. others don't. Recently I listened to massive Geithain Floorstanders, and it was so fatigueing to me, but not to their proud owner. Also Lumen White with their corund tweeters do things no-one wants them to do, when certain high end recordings are played. At least, when they are new. I love, when dealers offer wine and hors d'oeuvre, but one actually goes there for the in-affordable gear, right?
Right. I get the argument that sound is subjective. But at this price, you should get some fantastic wood finish and quality materials, not all plastic.
Send those things to Danny Richie...I'm sure he can fix em.. LOL ....seriously though I'm kidding .. Holy moly at 3K I hope you can return them for a refund! I think you need a highly revealing speaker to showcase the difference in your amplifiers.. I would consider offerings by Sonus Faber, Focal, MoFi, Heco, Q acoustics and Arendal..Welcome to the rabbit hole... I'm with you all the way as I am also going down it!
Surprise, surprise ( a Gomer Pyle surprise, surprise). I'm surprised you went this way, and I'm surprised you were so largely disappointed (for $3000). You know my preference (Tang Band), but being kits you can't exactly build and return, maybe someone closer might offer you a trial. I also see a speaker, or two you could build at Transcendent Sound that might give you something you might like. The speakers there are instructions offered in support of their product, so I would expect good results.
Sounds like they got a lot of cone break up and a frequency bump from 700 to 1000 hz . And a dip slightly higher up . Midrange is the most important part for me . Sounds like a fail for me and my music tastes. Thank you for the info!
I am always a bit wary of modern speakers the manufacturer call "classic". There is a reason most modern speaker designs are narrow with the drivers aligned. It is easy for us oldies to feel nostalgic about the first speakers we owned but I suspect we would be disappointed if we got the chance to listen to them again. As for JBL, people use to say it meant 'Just Bloody Loud' for a reason.
@@lysippus I recall that JBL's TLX range of speakers got good reviews back in the day (80s) because they didn't have a traditional JBL sound as they were made in Denmark.
You could try the KEF LS-50 Meta. They are smaller speakers, that are concentric drivers. They have 85 db sensitivity. The bass drops off a bit so you might need a subwoofer. Erin did a review of them. I had the RP-600m and I liked them. I thought “John Coltrane Plays the Kazoo” sounded great on those.
I built my 3 ways , and will never go any other way. Ss amp. Would like to hear on valves, but mine are 8 ohms. 89db. Oh jeeze. You said attenuator ! Your telling us / but not , they are trash!!!! Would like to show you both sets i built.
Well, JBL have two kind of series of speakers; the pro cinema and the regular series witch had that 70s signature sound, made for home rock and disco. What you need is something more versatile. Me what I've got is a pair of vintage Celestion Ditton 44 series 2 witch I've redo the hole cross over with new components, they sound not so bad and they are versatile; certainly better than the new klipsch series even as they are 87 db by watts now 92 db by watts.
That's a style over substance product. I was surprised because there are plenty of You-Tubers who have liked this speaker. I am always weary with metal dome tweeters, but that in it self is not a guarantee they are bad. It is just more difficult to voice them. I am a bit disappointed. I know JBL has gone trough a rough time with inferior products but I was hoping they got over it. It was not to be. Mind you, I am happy I held off with the sticker (for the vintage JBL speakers) I would have had to send it back :) I still stand with my recommendation for vintage JBL speakers. With size restrictions, that would mean JBL L16 (Decade 16); JBL L26 (Decade 26). You would be able to MOD them as well.
Hello 👋, I suggest to listen to the triangle Titus ez or the borea br02. I have both and the Magellan duetto. Love them. Magical midrange + texture. And if you like the sound signature of the smaller ones you can elevate them with a crossover upgrade, changing the capacitors by jantzen standard cap for the woofer + jantzen superior z cap (decoupled by a 0.1uf ) on the tweeters. Resistor change by Mills resistors, 12watt. You can gain even more clarity with better cabling+better binding post, it brings a lot of clarity. The good one.
The Zu Audio DWX is not a floor stander like the DW6 and measures 12"x12"x23" and starts at $1,400. The JBL L82 measures 12.4"x11"x18.6" and costs $2,900. Zu Audio has a free 60 day trial period so you can't go wrong. I'm just sayin'.
I get it, people want me to buy those. And I know they aren't a floor stander, like I also said, I looked up and researched all of these recommendations. I really hope some of these are from personal experience and not just watching the hyped reviews? Like I said in the video, these JBL were already too big for the space I have to put them. That was part of the mistake buying these and even though it's only 1 inch wider, the ZU are 5 inches taller so those are just gonna be worse. Same issues I have with the Mofi 8. I'll keep an eye out and maybe email them to see if they have plans for a smaller version in the future. Or maybe if I ever build a dedicated listening room addition or buy a big ass house..
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics Not having enough space is frustrating. I still have my Magnepan MG-1.5/QR speakers I used in a dedicated room back in the '90s but now I only have my small living room. I can't have them at least three feet from the wall which means all of the planar magic is gone and is a wasted effort. There are so many options these days I'm sure there is something that will fit your requirements.
Have you thought of talking to Danial at GR I haven't checked if he has had this JBL in yet but it may be worth checking. And yes it seems like you are defeating the purpose by having to upgrade a brand new speaker, $ 3,000 ISN'T CHUMP CHANGE IN ANYONES LAUNGAGE. Which is like $ 4,200 N.Z. dollars plus shipping
Try the cerwin-vega LA165, for $270 it will trash those JBL. The mid range on jazz vocals is primo.super natural and open .91db sensitivity...you can't go wrong with that price.
JBL never impressed me either. I'd recommend Spendor Classic 4/5 but it might be overpriced or not be available in your area. I also liked Thomas Stereo's Voyager but it's probably sold out. I recommend them because they seemed to be tube friendly in my experience.
I am Guessing that the front port is fed by both drivers . That would explain what you are hearing . If you want to know what kind of speakers to look at please get in touch with louis rossmann , He worked in the sound recording industry for years & is the sort of person that would be happy to answer an email from someone else that believes in people having the right to modify or repair there own electricronics .
Tweeters, are typically in self contained housings. Also, the damping/stuffing inside the speaker, combined with the port are all used to remove high frequencies from the port. I seriously doubt this is the issue with the speaker.
Those JBL's are ear bleeding screamers - and there's nothing that you can do about it. They've got horrible stored energy issues - ringing. That's why you're hearing that nasty, ear-drilling treble harshness. Get rid of them.
Back in the day, Dynaudio would sell their drivers to Us peasants. Loved their 30W54, and 21W54 woofers , used them quite successfully. Their D 28 in the horn loading handled huge amounts of power and sounded very musical too. Today Mr Skanning who founded Dynaudio in a partnership with Morel, sells even better drivers from His Audio TechnologyAps ,company. Expensive but worth it, if you roll your own.
@@scottwolf8633 That was a while ago, Dynaudio has steadily advanced their drivers with much more sophisticated testing parameters and materials, the Esotar 3 being an example. With that said I'm now experimenting with Voight tubes and the Sibelius single driver design although the Heritage Specials (which I own) are one of the best bookshelf speakers around IMHO.
@@MasterofPlay7 Here's where I disagree with tube power amps. I don't use them, too much wasted energy, too limited by output transformers and too expensive for what you get. Class D is the future and it's also the most accurate amplifier you can get, what you put in you get out basically and that's measurable. People think class D is dry but the beauty of it is that the preamp adds the harmonics and color so use a low power tube preamp with a class D power amp which is what I do although I'm testing some transistor designs that show promise in the harmonics category. Skunkie tested the Amp Camp from Nelson Pass, okay, that's a power amp and I don't like it anymore than tube power amps. First this class A amp is kind of a joke, we're not talking complementary/symmetry of the 70's with crossover notches. We have much more sophisticated electronics today it's an non issue but the thing is Skunkie saw to same clipping and harmonics you can get from tubes. That's because electronics is a very sophisticated science today and we can contour anything we like in a circuit so why build amps that double as room heaters with ridiculously expensive tubes? You simply no longer have to. Take a look at some of the rave reviews on tube class D amps. So no, there's no speaker today that's "too power hungry" when class D comes into play, you can drive anything and I mean anything and not for a lot of money. I'm driving Heritage specials with class D, hard to beat IMHO, and I've been designing and building this stuff longer than most of you have been alive. No offense Skunkie but saying you don't know transistors is saying your electronics knowledge is limited which is biasing you to tubes, learn to work with both, go back to that Pass amp and find out how Nelson got those tube dynamics out of transistors and go listen to his amps which are as warm as any tube amp. We can design GPS systems that locate a spot anywhere on the planet - we can design a circuit to do whatever we want regardless whether it's an oscope or an amp. It's just a different application.
@@mosfet500 lol you should try some cheap class a amp like 1969, I was surprised by the bass output of just 10w on my rp600m ii better dynamic than 80w class ab or 100w class d. 10w is all you need with efficient speakers
Welcome to mega-corp economics. JBL has for some time been just a brand of Harman Intl., itself now owned by Samsung, the corporate giant. Brands exist to evoke buying responses, and "JBL" is a nostalgia brand. Of course you know this, but I think we need to repeat it to ourselves all the time to break the magical spell _brands_ have over us.
Thanks for a refreshingly honest review. That's rare these days.
I have the first version (not MKII) of the L82 and L52 Classics. Was not blown away out of the box but after they were broken in I love them. Running the L82 Classics with a 1980 Sansui 9900Z 160wpc receiver and they sound fantastic to me. Pop, rock, metal, jazz, electronic music etc. I really love them and was super surprised of your review for the MKII’s. I got them on sale for $1,979. Yes they are a bit colored but I enjoy that sound, no fatigue and can listen all day. The L52’s sound excellent for their size as well. I had a party and everyone was loving the sound of the L52’s cranked up. Sorry they didn’t work out for you, but I’m not hearing them as you described 🤷♂️
I did say if you listen at "Keg party levels", maybe they work for that? Maybe they are the one speaker on the planet that needs 500-1000 hours to break in? I gave them 50 hours and they still didn't do it for me. My RP600M, and these quad S2 sounded nice out of the box.
Always honest , and more importantly , true to yourself Steph , great to see .
I don`t have any doubt about your claims .
I have , at times , considered buying this particular brand and model , so now I can forget about that idea.
I can almost feel your disappointment , as I listened to your review .
Hi and thanks for the review, it's perfectly clear.
Great video as usual. Coincidence, I have the same Klipsch 600M's...and tonight I hooked up a tube preamp A/B amplifier (40 watts). Sounded great. Then I hooked up two tube preamp/D class 100W mono blocks...also sounded great but different. Those Klipsch have a transparent signature. They sound different with all 4 of my amps.
Keep looking...good luck!
Thanks for the review. It probably makes sense for me to just get my vintage pair of JBL L56 from 1983 re-foamed. As their original owner, I know they sounded great and deserve to be preserved, back when JBL was made in America.
@@coreyostman recap and upgrade the crossovers when you refoam those caps degrade over time . But your right probably will still sound good
@@paulgood2218 Yup, I'll definitely recap the crossovers. With modern caps they should last for a good long time!
You may like the Cabasse Murano bookshelf speaker has 3-way, coaxial mid-tweeter and 7" woofer. Made in France,
The coaxial BC13 midrange-tweeter has no fatigue and wide soundstage.
Most of all those reviewers, if not all, are paid reviewers. They are being compensated somehow, mostly being able to keep the product after they review them.
It took me a very long time to understand what was going on and to identify who they are, but I am so much wiser now.
Love your reviews! Thanks as always 💜
Thanks for watching!
Thank you. Great impressions, unscripted with humour. Love it.
~15 years ago I picked up a pair of JBL L40s that needed woofer refoam for $10. Other than the woofer foams, they were in very good condition. After refoam gave them a listen. They had the hottest tweeters I'd ever heard in a set of speakers. Luckily, they also had the tweeter attenuation knob. After turning the tweeter level down a lot, they were listenable, but not great. Sold them to a young man looking for his first set of speakers.
I really liked PSB speakers since hearing them at Audio Alternative in Lilburn 20+ years ago. Ive owned a pair for 5 years.
Which ones do you have?
You made me love my Klipsch RP-600M even more. LOL. Keep it coming. Lover your videos.
By the way, which songs did you use to test?
i have the version 2
These JBL are classic student speakers for delivering up loud slamming rock where finesse is not the main issue or any issue at all. That's also why they have the bold decorative muffler grill - they are selling style. Suggestion: get a pair of used Klipsch Forte II for about $900, you will not be disappointed.
I was lucky to grow up with the original speakers JBL my dad owns. My dad was an audiophile had high-end equipment for the time, I hope to get these speakers when my dad has no use for them.
I know there are lots of recommendations for Zu DW, but you might want to watch Gary’s analysis at GR Research. I know they aren’t expensive enough (ha ha) but Hsu CCB-8 is really nice; coincident, efficient and small. Plus they make great subs to go with them.
G'day, I bought a pair of JBL Stage 180 floor standers. About 88db. They sounded ok but not great. I eventually Mundorfed the cross over and they are now fantastic. Beautiful with the Skunk Works A10 modded amp. Thanks mate from tropical Australia.
Good hear you're sending these back! Phew! 'Brown noise'. Lol!
Thank you as always for the candid review. Have you considered the Klipsch Heresy?
Too large for my house
Honest review !...........besides the problems the speakers do dominate the sound !
There are other ( resected ) audiophile brands doing the same to please .........with their inhouse sound ..
You might want to check Focal Aria Evo X No. 1. Good size for small spaces, very revealing without sharp treble, work well with tubes. Great for jazz. If you can find the previous generation (Focal Aria 906) you might get a good deal.
Thanks for your honest review, I guess they have fallen a long way from when they were truly JBL! are you going to try another speaker in the same general price range?
Or spread this buying a few others.
Everything you said makes perfect sense. If you can't hear the difference between different amps, the speakers are absolutely not what would be most appropriate for your use case.
Even with cheap Sony speakers I hear a difference
I had a feeling you would get those results , Steph. I heard Madman across the water on Zu Audio Dirty Weekend speakers, $1500. Ogden Utah - Blown away.
I hope in the future Zu makes some slightly smaller units, they look like nice speakers.
You nailed it. I had these for about a week and then returned them. It sounded muddy and while they imaged okay they just sounded non-resolute. And the bass was actually kind of disappointing. Very one note. Plus the vinyl wrap is not very great looking. Especially at 3k. Looks more like cheap furniture from Walmart.
You should check out these speakers from aperion audio I just reviewed. This is what a $3000 speaker should look/sound like, and cost $1400 ua-cam.com/video/AVtShwjkmlc/v-deo.html
Hey skunkie, my recommmendatio for low-ish efficiency speakers are Elac. Far from 3 grand, not thwtthat they won't have anything there, but i recommend the debut series which is below 1k. But they can get into the real high end pricing wise and performance wise
I think you would be blown away with the Source Point 8. I think people have suggested the Zu bookshelf but it’s an oversized bookshelf as well. How about offerings from Triangle?
I tried a Boria BR03 I think was the name, didn't care for them.
LOL, My friend and I always referred to that annoying upper frequency response as a "PIN".! It's like you just got poked in the ear with a pin... The titanium diaphragm JBL went to could have a lot to do with that.. All the early stuff JBL built say pre say 1980 used aluminum diaphragms.. Rock-On Stephe
Oh, no… So sorry to hear that, Stephe. I’ve only heard a few pairs of JBL’s, but mostly vintage ones, which weren’t bad. Pretty good if I remember correctly. At least you’ve got the Fyne speakers, which I think are probably a much better match with your tube amps. I’ll definitely be thinking of other speakers I’ve heard that I can recommend and let you know.
Again, sorry the JBL were a disappointment. They certainly looked good on paper.
On paper they did, in person not so much. It also helped me see the reality that these oversized bookshelf speakers just don't work for me.
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronicsHi Stephe 👋 I did some thinking and wrote down before forgetting brands like Triangle, Elac, and Dali all make some reasonably priced nice bookshelf speakers you might wanna check out.
I had a pair of the L100' classics which I bought new, I never really liked them so I sold them and purchased Klipsch Cornwall IV speakers. I have never looked back.
Interesting your listening impressions of speakers that you are paring with various amps in your listening space.your topic of tube friendly speaker has been on my mind lately too.i haven't given it much thought as up to now, only tube amps i have are pp 10w and higher with plenty of negative fb so a reasonable low source impedance and some damping factor.but as i near completion of building some low power se amps some with no neg f b of any kind and 2 w ,ive been thinking about what speaker i have that would work well.the commercial speaker i have are all about 30yr+ of various shapes and sizes.my newer speaker are diy but most are well bellow 90 db/w.so im not going to recommend a particular speaker just guidelines im considering in selecting speakers for my low power se amps.1 sensitivity very important for 2w not so much for 8w.2 a relative flat impedance curve.3 good damping of low frequency resonance of driver(qt)4placement in room to minimize baffle step loss.2 to4 can be adjusted in existing speaker by zobels , stuffing enclosure,port tuning, crossover modification etc.an impedence chart and waterfall chart can tell you alot lot if can find them for a specific speaker.now none of this will guarantee you a good sounding speaker.but im hoping these guidelines narrow down the choice s and give a reasonable match for my newly completed amps.maybe these guidelines will help some one to make good match or tweak what they already have.lm probably going to build a couple of more speaker with these little amps in mind .one project will be with grs 8 bofu copies and tweets 100 dollars or less budget.
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Remember the JBL 4343 had single 15 inch woofer and 4350s had 2 _15 inch woofers both in a medium tan color. They looked beautiful AF. No one ever reviewed them. Remember JBL advertisement in Stereo Review magazine. Always remember them being associated with professional conditions such as recording studios. Never seen them associated with home use. Similar to Crown professional amplifiers. I owned a Crown VZ 3600 wicked clean sound . They put out 1100 what's per. Returned for a refund. They were not designed for audiophile use.
I'm using the Zu DX6 with my 6 watt SET Decware integrated for about two months now and it's a very good match. The super tweeter took a little getting used to. The 10 inch speaker sounds great and isnt too big for my very small room. I though it might be but its no problem. Fun listen. Makes me play air guitar.
Yep, I've used mine with a Cayin EL84 10 wpc, Willsenton R8, and Yamaha A-S3200 with great results. I did put the 25ohm load resistors on them that Zu sells to bring down the impedance from 12 to 9 ohm to make it easier on the tubes but I really couldn't detect any audible difference.
in the previous video comments I said I had to throw a pair of JBL speakers in the dumpster because they sounded so bad. this modern JBL stuff is just a name.
But seriously, try to find a review online saying this. All the "regulars" on YT praise this speaker.
I'm sure the university student that designed these followed all the correct formulas precisely. I can't believe there are any problems
Considering the Harmon brands, one of the best speakers from them are the Revel brand. Generally, on the pricier side.
Sorry these didn’t work out for you, Stephe. Thankfully, they can be returned. You have a lot of people suggesting the Mofi Point Source, but I’m going to suggest that you already have a coax speaker that seems like it works for you. Why get another speaker that is based on the same design logic? I feel for the challenge your search presents. Small speaker, works with low power tube, full sound, dynamic etc…. It’s really too bad your space will not accommodate a larger box. One would think, given the not insignificant budget you have to spend on a pair of speakers, that there should be plenty of options out there. Sadly, that’s not the case. I’ve suggested the RM945 already, but I’m going to suggest Fritz Speakers. I have never heard them, and I’m not a measurement junkie by any stretch, but I know the crossover he uses in his speakers. I’ve built several pairs of speakers using this cross design and it makes the speaker an easy load for amps. Plus, he uses high quality drivers in his builds. Small manufacturer who is obviously motivated by passion. Remind you of someone?
Heard good reports about Fritz, how is the sensitivity?
Thanks for the review
I recommend the Sonus Faber lumina II before, which I am sticking to and I will add Kef r3 to the recommendation as I realise the ZU DWX is way big for your situation, hope you find something you enjoy
I have liked some of the British speakers in the past. Have a pair of the original ProAc Tablette 2.5s from years ago. The Tablettes have always been bass-light so perhaps not for your but they have larger speakers. Several other brands of UK speakers too, and used prices may be affordable.
Hi stephe, if your looking for something slightly less efficient, I’ll propose the CSS 1TD-x again 😊
Is this from personal experience?
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics Yes, I have a pair of 1TD-X that I drive with my R8. The last two months they have seen less action (out of precaution: our baby is starting to crawl and pull things over (including, I fear, tripod speaker stands), so for the moment they have been replaced by a beat-up second hand pair of PMC gb1i floorstanders that he can’t grab on to yet (also a good match with the R8, fortunately).
OK I might have to try those. I do have 2 pairs of "mystery speaker" ordered to replace these JBLs lol
Glad you’re telling it like it is. Try the new klh fives or wharfedale Lintons. I have refurbished AR2ax that are wonderful
@SkunkieDesignElectronics
That was QUICK, Stephe! LOL...
But also a shame. ☹ Unfortunately, I had my doubts (as I commented in your initial video about them} just based on the design and the drivers JBL uses for these...and somewhat also based on Erin's Audio Corner test/review of their bigger brother. :( I love the classic looking blue grills, but otherwise it's just another speaker to me.
And while I realize it was not the exact same speaker, it's also good to know that Erin's impression of their bigger brother lined up with your impressions of these similar JBL speakers in that series.
Honestly, there is really NO EXCUSE for a company such as JBL to produce such a CRAP speaker, ESPECIALLY FOR $3K !!! WTH?!
I really find it odd, though, because SOME of JBL's other models are REALLY REALLY GOOD. But I don't think any of the "New Classic" designs they offer are included in that group! 🤷♂
Luckily someone in your previous video had suggested the Fyne Audio speakers. 👍
SECONDARY/LOWER EFFICIENCY "BOOKSHELF" OPTION RECOMMENDATION:
*Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1 V2*
Can't hurt to TRY them. FYI, Erin was also impressed with them in his review, especially given their price. ;)
- Less than $1k
- 30-Day Satisfaction Guarantee
- 7 Year Warranty
- Designed, Engineered, Assembled, & Tested in the U.S.A. and they're available in a variety of nice finishes as well.
Typical In-Room Frequency Response is 39Hz - 23kHz. Not too large, either: 14.25"H x 7.5"W x 10.5"D.
Exclusive "V-LAM" cabinet construction featuring 20mm (13/16") thick vertically laminated BAMBOO with internal bracing.
Maybe the only downside is that they have rear-firing port tubes. But if you have a Subwoofer to use with them, you can plug the ports and adjust the subwoofer X/O accordingly.
Cheers.
Another good " test" inexpensive speaker is the Micca OoO. Its a bookshelf/center with dual 3 inch woofers. $110 for a pair. Surprisingly good for the money and then some, but only like 82db sensitivity....only 25watt max...would really be a great little pair for testing amps. Just for comparison on power.
have a look at the Coincident Speaker Technology Invictus model.
Some speakers sound harsh. At least in the beginning. Have you played your JBLs a 100hrs? Some people get used to it. others don't. Recently I listened to massive Geithain Floorstanders, and it was so fatigueing to me, but not to their proud owner. Also Lumen White with their corund tweeters do things no-one wants them to do, when certain high end recordings are played. At least, when they are new. I love, when dealers offer wine and hors d'oeuvre, but one actually goes there for the in-affordable gear, right?
I "burned them in" for 50 hours and then listened for about 10 or so.
Have you thought about one of the Decware speakers like the tube tots?
I am looking at the DM945
I agree that the JBL build quality for a speaker in that price range is not acceptable.
Right. I get the argument that sound is subjective. But at this price, you should get some fantastic wood finish and quality materials, not all plastic.
Some of your points are things discussed by GR Research in modding different speakers.
Excellent review. They shouldn’t all be raves. 👍🏻
Send those things to Danny Richie...I'm sure he can fix em.. LOL ....seriously though I'm kidding .. Holy moly at 3K I hope you can return them for a refund! I think you need a highly revealing speaker to showcase the difference in your amplifiers.. I would consider offerings by Sonus Faber, Focal, MoFi, Heco, Q acoustics and Arendal..Welcome to the rabbit hole... I'm with you all the way as I am also going down it!
Yeah, I'm getting a refund :)
Surprise, surprise ( a Gomer Pyle surprise, surprise). I'm surprised you went this way, and I'm surprised you were so largely disappointed (for $3000). You know my preference (Tang Band), but being kits you can't exactly build and return, maybe someone closer might offer you a trial. I also see a speaker, or two you could build at Transcendent Sound that might give you something you might like. The speakers there are instructions offered in support of their product, so I would expect good results.
Sounds like they got a lot of cone break up and a frequency bump from 700 to 1000 hz . And a dip slightly higher up . Midrange is the most important part for me . Sounds like a fail for me and my music tastes. Thank you for the info!
Maybe look at the TS Voyager MK2 SE. It has lower sensitivity but should be fine in a smaller room.
+1 on the OGY speakers with a Classic REL 88 or 89 sub and it’s end-game for tube people
I am always a bit wary of modern speakers the manufacturer call "classic". There is a reason most modern speaker designs are narrow with the drivers aligned. It is easy for us oldies to feel nostalgic about the first speakers we owned but I suspect we would be disappointed if we got the chance to listen to them again. As for JBL, people use to say it meant 'Just Bloody Loud' for a reason.
"Just Bloody Loud'- I hadn't heard that, but I agree
And maybe BLASTING rock at extreme SPL they sound good? Not doing that anymore :)
@@lysippus I recall that JBL's TLX range of speakers got good reviews back in the day (80s) because they didn't have a traditional JBL sound as they were made in Denmark.
You could try the KEF LS-50 Meta. They are smaller speakers, that are concentric drivers. They have 85 db sensitivity. The bass drops off a bit so you might need a subwoofer. Erin did a review of them. I had the RP-600m and I liked them. I thought “John Coltrane Plays the Kazoo” sounded great on those.
The bass roll off in my only reservation. I'd rather not have to add a sub to the room if I don't have to.
ls50 meta is really hard to drive
The big advantage would be that you can find many of them second hand.
I built my 3 ways , and will never go any other way. Ss amp. Would like to hear on valves, but mine are 8 ohms. 89db. Oh jeeze. You said attenuator ! Your telling us / but not , they are trash!!!! Would like to show you both sets i built.
Well, JBL have two kind of series of speakers; the pro cinema and the regular series witch had that 70s signature sound, made for home rock and disco. What you need is something more versatile. Me what I've got is a pair of vintage Celestion Ditton 44 series 2 witch I've redo the hole cross over with new components, they sound not so bad and they are versatile; certainly better than the new klipsch series even as they are 87 db by watts now 92 db by watts.
That's a style over substance product. I was surprised because there are plenty of You-Tubers who have liked this speaker. I am always weary with metal dome tweeters, but that in it self is not a guarantee they are bad. It is just more difficult to voice them. I am a bit disappointed. I know JBL has gone trough a rough time with inferior products but I was hoping they got over it. It was not to be. Mind you, I am happy I held off with the sticker (for the vintage JBL speakers) I would have had to send it back :) I still stand with my recommendation for vintage JBL speakers. With size restrictions, that would mean JBL L16 (Decade 16); JBL L26 (Decade 26). You would be able to MOD them as well.
They sound like the JBL S590's I had. The highs were piercing and fatiguing.
Hello 👋,
I suggest to listen to the triangle Titus ez or the borea br02. I have both and the Magellan duetto. Love them. Magical midrange + texture. And if you like the sound signature of the smaller ones you can elevate them with a crossover upgrade, changing the capacitors by jantzen standard cap for the woofer + jantzen superior z cap (decoupled by a 0.1uf ) on the tweeters. Resistor change by Mills resistors, 12watt. You can gain even more clarity with better cabling+better binding post, it brings a lot of clarity. The good one.
I tried a Borea BR03, didn't care for it.
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics i heard the bro3 sounded bad
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics I didn't suggest the borea 3 but the borea 2. Not the same.
The Zu Audio DWX is not a floor stander like the DW6 and measures 12"x12"x23" and starts at $1,400. The JBL L82 measures 12.4"x11"x18.6" and costs $2,900. Zu Audio has a free 60 day trial period so you can't go wrong. I'm just sayin'.
I get it, people want me to buy those. And I know they aren't a floor stander, like I also said, I looked up and researched all of these recommendations. I really hope some of these are from personal experience and not just watching the hyped reviews?
Like I said in the video, these JBL were already too big for the space I have to put them. That was part of the mistake buying these and even though it's only 1 inch wider, the ZU are 5 inches taller so those are just gonna be worse. Same issues I have with the Mofi 8. I'll keep an eye out and maybe email them to see if they have plans for a smaller version in the future. Or maybe if I ever build a dedicated listening room addition or buy a big ass house..
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics
Not having enough space is frustrating. I still have my Magnepan MG-1.5/QR speakers I used in a dedicated room back in the '90s but now I only have my small living room. I can't have them at least three feet from the wall which means all of the planar magic is gone and is a wasted effort. There are so many options these days I'm sure there is something that will fit your requirements.
Oh I found one, stay tuned.
Try Vera-Fi Vanguard Scout speakers. May need sub, vera fi offers Caldera sub. Both - speakers and sub are ridiculous cheap!
Have you thought of talking to Danial at GR I haven't checked if he has had this JBL in yet but it may be worth checking. And yes it seems like you are defeating the purpose by having to upgrade a brand new speaker, $ 3,000 ISN'T CHUMP CHANGE IN ANYONES LAUNGAGE. Which is like $ 4,200 N.Z. dollars plus shipping
Yeah, not gonna open up a new pair of $3000, make them unreturnable with hopes of fixing them.
Yep same thats why I sold my L36's way ice-picky.
New JBL is not same level as the vintage stuff. Most people I know who are JBL fanboys are normally referring to the old stuff.
Try the cerwin-vega LA165, for $270 it will trash those JBL. The mid range on jazz vocals is primo.super natural and open .91db sensitivity...you can't go wrong with that price.
JBL never impressed me either. I'd recommend Spendor Classic 4/5 but it might be overpriced or not be available in your area. I also liked Thomas Stereo's Voyager but it's probably sold out. I recommend them because they seemed to be tube friendly in my experience.
I am Guessing that the front port is fed by both drivers . That would explain what you are hearing . If you want to know what kind of speakers to look at please get in touch with louis rossmann , He worked in the sound recording industry for years & is the sort of person that would be happy to answer an email from someone else that believes in people having the right to modify or repair there own electricronics .
Tweeters, are typically in self contained housings. Also, the damping/stuffing inside the speaker, combined with the port are all used to remove high frequencies from the port. I seriously doubt this is the issue with the speaker.
Yeah, MoFi SourcePoint all the way.
$3000? I'm surprised it is worse than $400 klipsch.... Guess price in audio doesn't equal performance
Looks like a aluminum or titanium tweeter. Too HOT!
Yeah it is.
This is a very good review, but of course, disappointing for yourself :(
Fix the crossover and make them work.
Sure, open up a $3000 speaker I don't like, ensuring I can't return them, in hopes I can fix them. Pass
Yet another great vid, hope you won't need a lawyer, 15 k subs comin up.
If they try to sue me for my opinion...
I know about all the downsides but if other people will buy it for _____ then it’s worth _____ so no real risk.
PS Audio FR5s
Those JBL's are ear bleeding screamers - and there's nothing that you can do about it. They've got horrible stored energy issues - ringing. That's why you're hearing that nasty, ear-drilling treble harshness. Get rid of them.
They are already on their way back. "Ear drilling" is EXACTLY how to describe them!
Thanks for the honest reviews! I have no suggestions, I like Dynaudios but you probably won't.
Back in the day, Dynaudio would sell their drivers to Us peasants. Loved their 30W54, and 21W54 woofers , used them quite successfully. Their D 28 in the horn loading handled huge amounts of power and sounded very musical too. Today Mr Skanning who founded Dynaudio in a partnership with Morel, sells even better drivers from His Audio TechnologyAps ,company. Expensive but worth it, if you roll your own.
they are too power hungry
@@scottwolf8633 That was a while ago, Dynaudio has steadily advanced their drivers with much more sophisticated testing parameters and materials, the Esotar 3 being an example. With that said I'm now experimenting with Voight tubes and the Sibelius single driver design although the Heritage Specials (which I own) are one of the best bookshelf speakers around IMHO.
@@MasterofPlay7 Here's where I disagree with tube power amps. I don't use them, too much wasted energy, too limited by output transformers and too expensive for what you get.
Class D is the future and it's also the most accurate amplifier you can get, what you put in you get out basically and that's measurable. People think class D is dry but the beauty of it is that the preamp adds the harmonics and color so use a low power tube preamp with a class D power amp which is what I do although I'm testing some transistor designs that show promise in the harmonics category.
Skunkie tested the Amp Camp from Nelson Pass, okay, that's a power amp and I don't like it anymore than tube power amps. First this class A amp is kind of a joke, we're not talking complementary/symmetry of the 70's with crossover notches. We have much more sophisticated electronics today it's an non issue but the thing is Skunkie saw to same clipping and harmonics you can get from tubes. That's because electronics is a very sophisticated science today and we can contour anything we like in a circuit so why build amps that double as room heaters with ridiculously expensive tubes? You simply no longer have to. Take a look at some of the rave reviews on tube class D amps.
So no, there's no speaker today that's "too power hungry" when class D comes into play, you can drive anything and I mean anything and not for a lot of money. I'm driving Heritage specials with class D, hard to beat IMHO, and I've been designing and building this stuff longer than most of you have been alive.
No offense Skunkie but saying you don't know transistors is saying your electronics knowledge is limited which is biasing you to tubes, learn to work with both, go back to that Pass amp and find out how Nelson got those tube dynamics out of transistors and go listen to his amps which are as warm as any tube amp. We can design GPS systems that locate a spot anywhere on the planet - we can design a circuit to do whatever we want regardless whether it's an oscope or an amp. It's just a different application.
@@mosfet500 lol you should try some cheap class a amp like 1969, I was surprised by the bass output of just 10w on my rp600m ii better dynamic than 80w class ab or 100w class d. 10w is all you need with efficient speakers