The pilot was flying on my turf. I’ve done it safely for 55 years. And even in a Cessna 150. He has had zero mountain flying training. Westbound on that route in the afternoon is a fools errand. In addition, there are a few more benign routes nearby. Both of his approaches were into the back side of a wall. Guaranteed rotors in both locations. We don’t fly that route after noon, or when it’s hot, or when the wind is over 20 mph. God smiled on a fool today.
My CFI once did it with me for a laugh - with plenty of safety margins: he just wanted to show me what it's like when your GS goes negative (landing config, landing speed in a 172 into a mountain wave). He would turn over his left shoulder with one hand on the yoke and go "beep beep beep" like a truck backing up. 😆 Lessons like that stuck with me, better than any textbook!
@@michaelhoffmann2891old Chief pilot (1950s weather plane pilot) described getting up to 25,000 feet in a C172 in the mountain wave on the Reno side of Donner Pass and not being able to cross because of the downdraft. He was the smoothest pilot I ever rode with. He could land a C150 in a choppy gusty crosswind smooth as kiss the back of your hand, amazing.
Wow. Just wow. I flew my biplane into the east side bowl of Monarch Pass westbound, made a determination that it was just too tight a margin, went back to Pueblo and shipped my baggage UPS. Then flew the pass early in the morning with plenty of clearance. I kept plenty of margin, had lots of clearance, but it still taught me huge respect for the Rockies. Thanks for the old, not-so-bold pilot’s perspective.
Underrated comment. Hypoxia up there is real. Decisions have to be made and kept as you go into the area. Those who experience euphoria are susceptible to feeling like it’s going better than the plan.
That's true. I've noticed that when NFL teams play in Denver the coaching decisions seem to be a little off compared to what you see when those same teams are playing down at lower altitudes. You often see the players on oxygen during the game and I've often thought that maybe the coaches should also be on oxygen.
@@Fang70 actually this should have been spoken about. Decision making above 8000ft can be impaired quite a bit, especially if you coming off from an illness etc.
@@joevignolor4u949 Denver and the stadium are SIGNIFICANTLY lower than Corona/Rollins Pass... but an interesting observation. Those of us from here always chuckle that the sports TV photographers always set up a camera with a stupidly long lens east of the city and "squash" the mountains closer to the city with the loss of depth of field, as B-roll footage for folks watching from other places. Those mountains and the Divide are 35-50 miles west of the center of the "Queen City of the PLAINS"... hehehe...Cheers!
Actually density altitude doesn’t really affect airfoil performance. At a specific dynamic pressure and a specific AoA the wing will generate the same lift always, unless it is a super critical airfoil where there is an effect of Mach number. So a glider will fly just fine at these altitudes. It is the engine that craps out.
I’m afraid the answer is no, they don’t hear him. The kind of people who do this kind of stuff are not the kind of people who are watching Juan Browne videos unfortunately.
@@mattj65816 I too wonder if that pilot is taking exactly the wrong lesson from this even, especially after seeing this video. "See how awesome I am? I rock!" I have a low estimate of his life expectancy.
Way back in the day,, as a student wannabe pilot, my instructor said we were going from Lincoln (Ca) up to Reno Nv. in the school's Cessna 152 (N67321 --- after nearly 40 years I still remember the tail number --- and I did not just look that up!). It is a route up Hwy 80, following the freeway up the mountain. It was no way near 11,000 feet, but my instructor said 'we are going EARLY' due to density altitude. We had plenty of altitude/ground clearance, and all went well, but it taught me that mountain flying can be difficult and the need for care is paramount. The funny thing was: While taxiing out at Reno, we were behind a couple of National Guard F-4's. Needless to say, the Cessna did a little bumping around even while we were standing still on the ground! --- this was a memorable trip in more ways than one...... those were wonderful days!
@@TiffMcGiff Of course it is not about me, it is just a reminder that there is danger out there and we all need to be especially vigilant. Sorry if I DO tend to write more than I should. A huge thanks to Juan for always bringing these stories to us.
The first attempt showed a serious lack of judgement. The second attempt suggests an even more serious psychological issue regarding recognizing risk. I cannot imagine hiring him for any position involving piloting or even renting aircraft.
The statement that this is disrespectful to aviation is spot on. I rent from the same establishment and live in a town where a large portion of the residents hate the airport with a passion and are constantly looking for excuses to denounce it's existence. I feel honored that people trust me to fly them and even their kids over these passes and take these terrain crossings very seriously. While this clip is wildly entertaining, it is also thoroughly frustrating because I know this will be going through people's heads when I talk about mountain flying.
You need to stop complaining and go on the offensive. Airports around the country are under siege by developers who want the land around them for construction and the fools who bought recently built houses and now complain about the noise. Let them know that if they don’t like how things are, they need to sell and move. But the airport isn’t going anywhere. Appeasement is how things got to where they are now. Most airports were built in the 40s and 50s.
@@joewoodchuck3824because a lot of people hate any and all airports because the sound of airplanes "disrupts their peace" 🙄 Motorcycles, trucks, and tuned cars are at least similar but no one is closing the roads...
@@joewoodchuck3824 It used to be out in the middle of nowhere... these days development has encroached all the way up to the airport boundary. The airport has been there since 1960. Don't buy a house near an airport if you're going to complain about aircraft noise, seems pretty simple. Much like Santa Monica.
I've got plenty of time in the Rockies at High DA in a C150, but I'd never have attempted that ridge crossing. And I was flying two C150/150s (150HP upgrade) with STOL LE extensions, wing fences, wing tips, gap seals, extended range fuel tank, and a climb propeller. They were very fun aircraft, but sometimes you still have to take the long way around.
Well said. The DA here in Colorado can easily get up to 9,000 or above during the summer months on certain days (FE 6,000’ where I was at). Mountain flying, especially during the summer in a single-engine airplane should not be treated lightly.
STOL is not cruise. With the exception of the engine upgrade and gap sealing, all of those add ons are bad for high altitude flying. A high pitch prop and being clean and light are what you need to push the ceiling.
@@mytech6779 you obviously know nothing about this subject. The STOL wingtips, wing fences and gap seals all improve the efficiency of the wing and control surfaces. This improves the aircraft's ceiling, climb, speed, and takeoff distance, and two of those factors are critical for crossing mountains. The extra HP also improves climb, ceiling, speed, and acceleration. Which also helps when crossing mountains. The climb prop also helps with acceleration, climb rate, takeoff distance, and is a factor in crossing mountains. The STOL LE extensions physically changes the shape of the airfoil. It literally gives the wing a new shape and size. This new wing now generates more lift and has greater surface area. Once again, this improves takeoff distance, climb rate, and ceiling. This helps when crossing mountains. The extra long range fuel tank also helps extend the range, now that she flies slower, and because you might find yourself flying over larger distances of uninhabited terrain when mountain flying in the Rockies. Gives you more options. So, you are objectively and factually wrong. Every STOL mod helped the airplane fly higher, climb faster and steeper, accelerate faster, takeoff and land shorter at higher DAs..... More HP, climb prop, larger wing, higher lift wing, more efficient wing (gap seals), lower induced drag when flying in high AOA, high lift, slow flying at closer to ceiling altitude conditions (wing fences, wingtips), all help to make a Cessna 150 climb better and fly higher when crossing the Rocky mountains.
Thanks for posting this. I live in Grand Co. Sky-Hi News posted this on their Facebook page. I got shelled for mentioning that he was being stupid, not “brilliant”. I’m going to direct the uninformed to this page! And, another thought, I’m thinking the club at Rocky Mtn airport in Broomfield may not want to rent him another plane….
That seems to be a trend when pointing out cockpit stupidity. I’ve pointed out things on UA-cam and I just get pummeled. People are so desperate for heroes that they’ll make a hero out of someone that made the problem they got out of. Beam me up!
@@ourlifeinwyoming4654 people get promoted for fixing the problems they create while those who are intelligent enough to avoid the problem in the first place are passed up.
Oh I've done something similar. I was 18 years old and a friend asked me to fly some ice cream up to some hikers in the cascade mountains of WA state. We found the hikers and dropped the ice cream and it hit very close to them. We were pleased and only then did I start thinking about getting out of there. I was climbing up a valley looking up to trees on both sides and no way to turn around. By the grace of God I survived this lack of forethought, (this was back in 1963) I went on to do other stupid stuff in airplanes but I'm still here.
...and stupid enough to admit it publicly. Another dumbass I would not want to be anywhere near. I really hate "I got away with it once, so I will do it again" people!!
It was bad enough doing that back in 1963 but today there are so many more resources to learn from other people's mistakes and advice than back then, I would consider that even less excusable now.
As a former hanggliding pilot, I thought it might be worth mentioning lee rotors that can form on the lee side of the mountain. You can get hit with a strong downdraft some distance from the ridge, followed by an equally strong tailwind driving you down into the quickly rising terrain. Don't ask me how I know.. 😲
Very, very, lucky. Picked up way too many folks who failed that maneuver on the Collegiate Peaks in Colorado. That aircraft should not have been anywhere near that flight path. He didn't kill himself this time, but he will do so in the future if he keeps making bad decisions like this.
Sept 24 1956 my grandma's first husband was an Air Force C-47 pilot and crashed into Mt Yale on the way to San Franscisco. Wreckage is still there and accessible apparently. One of these days I'll make it up there.
And next time he might have a passenger he's trying to impress..."Hey, lookit what I can do with this aeroplane, would ya? Hyuk!" Upon which time he and his unwitting and possibly overweight passenger will come to an untimely end.
In the late 80's I worked for a crop duster that learned to Fly at Eagle Co. He used to fly a 65 hp Taylorcraft from Eagle to Denver and back. He said that he learned more about fling in the Taylor craft than any other plane!
The most scary thing about him is not that he almost died the first time but that he went right back into the same situation during the same flight. He is a danger to any passenger who flies with him.
I live in Colorado and this exact aircraft flew over my house which is at roughly 7,500 in the front range. I was surprised that they were taking a 152 up here. I fly out of BJC and don’t go much higher than 8,500 on a good day. I’ve been behind this aircraft waiting for take off too, and Im shocked about what people try with them. Glad everyone is ok but more thorough analysis needs to be done before flying. Thanks for the great video
I landed at Laramie, Wyoming in a 1948 Stinson 108-3 for a fuel stop. I took off at 1:00 pm and it seemed like a long TO roll. I quickly realized I could only climb at about 50 feet per minute. I had to ease over to the right, northbound, and dip down into a river valley and managed to slowly gain altitude. I wasn’t being disrespectful to aviation, I was just an ignorant flatlander. I didn’t know to lean the mixture before TO. It was pure luck that saved me because I didn’t have passengers, and the long runway and river valley came to the rescue. So yes please don’t be ignorant, get the training.
There is no room for that kind of ignorance in aviation. You often don’t get a second chance when you make serious mistakes, so you make damn sure you aren’t making big mistakes right from the start.
I've never flown a Stinson, and I wasn't there when the incident you described occurred, obviously. But I have flown a 172RG out of Greely, CO (IIRC, it was about 20 years ago) on a hot July day, and we made three attempts to take off before asking a local CFI for tips. In my case, we did a run-up, leaned the mixture, taxied to the active, applied full power to start the take-off roll, noticed the engine sounded terrible and wasn't making power, aborted the take-off, repeat. We never got to the point of "long take-off roll" or "climbing at 50 fpm" before it was obvious things weren't right -- which brings me to the point of this post: if the DA was high enough to cause the issues you described, wasn't it high enough to cause the engine to run rough if you weren't leaned properly? As an aside, the local CFI suggested we lean at run-up, then finish leaning with full throttle before releasing the brakes for take-off.
@@N600LW This flight was in 1984 and my Stinson had a 165 HP Franklin six cylinder engine. It sounded fine during the TO roll. Loved that engine it idled like a P-51.
@@Junior-ck3jq I guess human factors are a thing of the past after FAA published their “antidote” ACs. No longer we need to worry about people making mistakes…..
As a local who’s been flying in these mountains since I was 19, and I have white hair now… and a CFI… he got awfully lucky. As another old CFI friend said, “Well at least he gave us new material for the mountain flying course!” Lol. Info is it was a rental aircraft, and had an engine conversion to slightly more horsepower. (The usual STC…) Still, mid day, you can hear the winds in the mic in the video, high temperatures and high density altitude - not a good choice of equipment for this flight. As you said Juan, he needed to decide to take his planned escape route much sooner. He cut it way too close for a typical “let’s see how performance goes today” decision-making type of flight. Even on a cold day in a 182 solo, I’ve had to bail out on crossing Rollins. And it’s one of the “easier” passes. The terrain in the video isn’t in Rollins which is wider and more room for an escape until you’re committed, it’s steeper there. That area, the terrain can and does out climb any piston single. You climb east of there and circle if you must… I assume the pilot knows by now just how close to death he willfully pushed it.
I went onto the Rocky Mountain flight school website and it is the standard 110hp and is the cheapest plane they rent at $69/hr Wet when the website was updates on January 2024. The other 152s rent for $84/hr wet. N 45941 is the one that had an upgrade to 125hp.
@@shadowdog500 "live" locals state otherwise, but I will admit not knowing the aircraft personally. Aviation rental websites, updated??? When??? hahaha...
I just started flying through these mountains a few months ago for work with a pipeline company. I only fly the passes from West to East due to how I flight plan the route. It makes things way, WAY easier. I flew Rollins Pass on July 3rd around 1600 MST, but Eastbound. I was at the altitude I needed to be miles before reaching the pass.
@@NatesRandomVideo I fly on the South side of Wyoming over pipeline that I need to patrol. That takes me West. Then I have lines that take me down the West side of Colorado. When I finish those, then I typically head over to Rifle, then fly Eastbound over the Rockies. It just works out like that with the circuit I typically fly.
I don't think they just flew into the box and dropped. One of the photos shows them approaching above the pass, but it's still bad and this is why. Background: I'm an RC dynamic soaring pilot and we seek out places like this in winds like this to pilot our 30-45lb sailplanes through the shear layers to gain very high speeds. Some notable DS spots in SoCal are Parker Mountain, a hill near Weldon and Bird Springs Pass (current DS record there is 564 mph). I hold the current Colorado record at 352mph at Jones Pass (south west of Rollins Pass where he crossed).. So what? Well what we've learned and what most folks don't realize is that when the wind is pumping like this it rises up the windward side of the mountain and *keeps* rising as it crosses over the ridge, wind speed peaks well above the leeward side before it starts to fall again well behind the ridge and then some of that air curls back down into a fairly well formed lee side rotor. This puts the horizontal shear layer between the frontside wind, and the lee side rotor *above* the height of the ridge. That means if you fly up from the lee side, and are only 100-200ft above the top of the pass (as one of the photos suggests they were), you will likely hit an enormous headwind and sink and if you manage to punch through that you'll find yourself under the sheer layer with a tailwind even if you're still briefly above the height of the pass and well behind it. That's why that plane just stopped flying and fell out of the sky. The interesting thing is, when they got turned around 180 degrees and pointed downhill they *might* have even had a headwind from the lee side rotor return flow which could have helped them recover. I've flown my sailplanes in slope lift *entirely* on the lee side of a mountain (the ravens and vultures do this all the time as well). To avoid this you've gotta your plane up above the peak rising/compressed air can be 500+ft up and as much behind the the ridge.
Not many powered pilots understand much about mountain winds and how to use them! Thanks for sharing. If this pilot survives he will be very good . He had no passenger and may have been learning on his own terms💁
I lost two very good friends when they died crossing the divide in a citabria on their way back to Boulder. Crossed with sufficient altitude but something happened on the lee side and they spun in. Both were towpilots at the gliderport where I instructed and gave rides. Just an awful day that was. Mountain flying in single-engine airplanes is not something to be taken lightly.
@@VictoryAviation They spun in from getting too slow and uncoordinated and they didn't have enough altitude to recover. Obviously I have no idea why they got slow and uncoordinated. I wasn't there with them. No?
He survived, despite repeated suicidal efforts. I grew up flying VFR in windy mountains - not the awful density altitude problem, though, mine was all at a cold 0-3000' density altitude in the West Fjords of Iceland in the 1970's. Fortunately for me, I had a good mentor, Hörður Guðmundsson of Ernir Air. One tidbit was that if you are approaching a mountain ridge in a headwind (low because of clouds, not performance in our case) you approach at an oblique angle, preparing to abort rather than just bore on regardless (like this guy did). The other tidbits of survival tips I received were countless, but the bottom line is that I retired from commercial/airline flying 10 years ago, I still fly and I have not yet written off any equipment due to personal clumsiness - but the potential is there! There is always the last chance to screw up due to overconfidence! I cling to the hope that my awareness of this will keep me safe...
@@alexanderSydneyOz "Probably" is right. The moment you start blindly relying on your exceptional skills is the moment you are liable to mess things up...
@@yamkaw346 the 1500hr rule has DESTROYED the aviation industry and resulted in piss poor pilots. Blind leading the blind. preventing low time pilots from being mentored by senior pilots at teh most critical time in their careers. the 1500hr rule came about after pilots with 2000-5000+ hrs caused a couple fatal accidents. the gov blamed low-time pilots, who had nothing to do with the accidents. In fact, pilots with 0-1000hrs are THE safest pilots in all of aviation. complacency hasn't set in yet for them. The 1500hr rule is responsible for pilots like this moron existing.
@@SoloRenegade It has also exploded the starting pay for regional airlines pilots which now averages over $90/ hour (as a young regional airline pilot I love that). I don’t remember the time before this rule but I can’t imagine only making $20k a year flying jets, which is how it was before the rule. Also who would instruct, fly skydivers, pipeline patrol and banner tow if you could just go straight to jets?
I, too, did some REALLY stupid stuff building time. By the grace of God I survived. Each time I learned and NEVER did that again. This guy did not learn from his experience. I flew over Devils Thumb one time in a Cessna 182 (before 10 am) I cleared with less than 1000 feet. I vowed never again. Thank you, Juan.
Let’s face it, a lot of us did som stupid stuff while flying in our youth, but we survived and learned from it. A component of experience = (Wow, that was a close one + I’m not doing that again)
I was a student pilot in the early 70s in ABQ. every student study guide covers downdrafts after a crest. My instructor (bless her) always knew that showing is better than telling so she took me to the mtn ridges and had me fly downwind. soon as we crossed the crest ... BAM down like a shot. could not stop the sink ( there was plenty of room to work with) That was the day that "I learned about flying that...."
Pro tip from an aeronautical engineer and commercially-licensed pilot. With electric flaps in the C152, you can get any flap setting not just discrete values at the stops/detents. The first stop is 10 deg. If you put in 5-10 deg, I've found the performance to be greatly improved at low speed. Why? Wings naturally want more camber at slow speeds and less camber at high speeds. For propeller-driven aircraft, you're playing around with where the optimal CL/CD (best lift-to-drag) or optimal CL^(3/2)/CD (min power req'd ) airspeeds will be. It also changes the max L/D and min power req'd. Please don't buy into that plausible falsehood that flaps only add drag. They modify the entire drag polar, which includes lift, and sometimes you can use that to your advantage. At 5-10 deg, most flaps haven't opened up or deflected to the point where you get a large drag rise. YMMV. So stop flying straight and level to the next $100 hamburger and go learn what works in your plane.
That can work at i think dense air with more engine power. I learned to pop more flaps to jump over obstacles in Bush Pilot Training. But in thin air, less power, like over 5k feet msl, most airplanes i was told cant use much flaps, unless jet or turbo charged. You need best power to compensate for the extra drag. High power can use a lot of flaps, but not when low power.
Sailors can also attest to this. In light winds (=low airspeed), you want to add camber to your sail, in stronger winds, you flatten it out. It's practically the first thing you teach to a kid about trimming a sail.
I’m a hang glider pilot. I’ve watched a paraglider fly himself himself somewhere he wasn’t going to be able to fly out of. I ran to get my camera rather than running to where I thought he was most likely to crash. My reasoning: “if he survives, he’s going to want to see this.” He survived, but got smashed into soft dirt, a full 18 inches away from the pavement.
Unlike the incident above Telluride a couple years ago, the top of the ridge was visible to this pilot for awhile. It didn't sneak up on 'em around a corner. As far as canyons go, its not that boxy.
Juan: Love your channel. Thanks for your cogent analysis. I live and fly just east of Rawlins out of Boulder (KBDU) in my Bonanza, and Denver International and KDEN (PC-12s). I've crossed there many times in underpowered airplanes, and they're all gliders at Rawlins from time to time. Amplifying, his first attempt was at the north end of the 10+ mile-wide "saddle" centered on Rawlins pass. No surprise that Devils Thumb pass (at the north end) doesn't appear on aviation maps - only on hiking maps. It is adjacent to rocky, sharp peaks and any NW flow turbulates over 12,500 - 13,000 peaks, affecting Devils Thumb well before Rawlins pass itself. I note that his second attempt was centered on Rawlins Pass which is easily found by following the railroad tracks that disappear into the long railroad tunnel that inspired the tunnel in Ayn Rand's "The FountainHead". Simply astonishing.
I learned, soloed and earned my license in the 152, a great airplane. It does take a good 20 minutes to climb to 5k in Orlando. I cannot imagine how long it would have taken that 152 to climb to 12k. I also checked out in the 172, Cherokee 140/160/180 as well as the Tomahawk.
he/she ain't dead yet (required for DA). But spent a life credit right there. Who knows how many that pilot has left. I know I've been through a few "life credits" but I'm no flier.
@@wadepatton2433 DA technically doesn't require cessation of life--there are other (more painful) ways to remove oneself from the gene pool. It just tends to happen that most of the time the recipients get their award posthumously.
I’ve flown that ridge a bunch in a 182….usually rollins. Doing this at those temperatures and winds in a 152 is mind boggling. I hope that pilot learns something from the public reaction to this video because they clearly didn’t learn from cheating death.
Very lucky pilot ,then does it again,once would’ve been enough for me,thanks Juan hopefully the pilot may learn something from this incident. Safe flights mate,👏👏👋👋👍🇦🇺
I did my primary flight training at the same departure airport (Jefferson County, now the ridiculously named Rocky Mountain Metro). My instructor was adamant about avoiding the mountains unless properly trained and flying in an appropriate aircraft. The idea of doing this in a 152 is nuts.
I haven't been on this channel in awhile, though been watching since the Oroville dam spillway failure. I'm 75 years old and in my youth had many adventures in the Indian Peaks Wilderness area. In my junior year in high school a friend and I went over Rollins Pass (by car) to fish in Pumphouse Lake, to the west of the old townsite of Corona. We observed a small plane struggling eastbound to clear the pass and watched it crash into the side of the mountains just about our campsite below the Rollins Pass road. With no explosion or fire whatsoever, we figured the guy must have run out of fuel, but never knew. We were about 1000' below the crash and it tooks us awhile to get to the site. All were deceased. On the east side of the divide, we came across three or four old wreckages, one west of the Coney Lakes, which is near Devil's Thumb. The winds build up as the daylight increases and it's not a time one would want to fly that way withough a lot of power. I've never been over the divide in a small aircraft, but did get flown along the east side of the mountains from about Long's Peak to Mt. Audobon. It was so bumpy I couldn't believe it. Obviously you have to be an experienced pilot! This new pilot is so incredibly lucky to be alive. Hope he learned his lesson.
"The Climbing Wonder" is what my flight instructor called the C-152 at the Colorado flight school I learned at in the mid 80's. He called it that because you always wondered if it was going to climb. The judgement or lack thereof is hard to comprehend given the combination of plane + winds + July afternoon + altitude + terrain.
I flew out of KFMN (Farmington, NM) for 5 years. Every year at least one aircraft merges with the terrain due to the pilot underestimating or not knowing about density altitude. There's a Bonanza incident on UA-cam where the new airline pilot and his new wife (flight attendant) messed up near Bridal Veil Falls after they left KTEX (not enough money to get me to try to fly a GA aircraft into KTEX. It's doable... but I don't need the risk at this point in my life). That CFI was lucky plus a little skill. Luck and skill - cognitive skills makes for a fine life / death balance. I did my mountain checkout in a C182. We flew to Leadville. There was still snow on the ground but DA was high. When we got back from the checkout the CFI asked me what my takeaway was. I said simple, don't fly in the mountains. :) Not with a naturally aspirated GA aircraft anyway. Personal minimums and all that.
The fact that he made a second attempt freaking grinds me up. I didn’t know 152s can even fly in the summer. Like if you’re making a second attempt after that, something is seriously wrong in the head. This guy is the reason we don’t have nice things.
@@jamescollier3 Two things; cats have nine lives, you don't. Benjamin Franklin flew a kite with a wire into a lightning storm along with his grandson, both survived, the next seven experimenters did not.
As a Cessna 150 owner and pilot for 50 years This was extremely asking for death. I might blame whom ever taught this kid. Though some kids now days are stubborn and feel nothing can go wrong. A good pilot prepares for a flight days in advance and prepares for anything that might go wrong.
Should the flight school do any special inspections of that airframe after that bout of rough and tumble handling - can they also perhaps refuse the application of those flight hours for use as compliant pilot logged air time?
I’d AGREE with Juan’s 500 ft remark. When it’s windy you should have 2000 ft to cross a ridge line. 500 will almost always put you in the downdraft. In calm winds 1000 feet may be acceptable.
@@utah20gflyer76 you need 500, you may not be able to get more. I cross Rollins at 12500, I won’t cross with less, I would never cross at Devil’s Thumb, winds are to inconsistent. Rollins Pass is 11.6, if you approach from Rollinsville/East Portal you are crossing at a 45/30° angle. If you had to there are places you could land and survive. There are none at Devil’s Thumb. The elevation there is over 12500.
I know someone who used to work at the school this airplane is from. There's actually a picture somewhere of her taxiing this very tail. Crazy to see it getting used for insanity like this.
I grew up in that area, and every few years we would have a plane crash into these passes. Usually it was a flat lander in something like a fully loaded 172 going into Rollins Pass, not a local CFI who should know better.
Never mind the altitude MSL: it's July in Denver. I learned to fly there. The density altitude must have been in the "FAA requires use of oxygen" levels. C152 were often enough grounded at that time of year: you couldn't even get off the ground in KAPA (Centennial airport)! Juan mentions it, but man, I was getting flashbacks. I didn't feel safe flying west from that area until I had my high-perf/complex endorsement and could get into a turbo-charged plane.
I've noticed that when NFL teams play in Denver the coaching decisions seem to be a little off compared to what you normally see when those same teams are playing down at lower altitudes. You often see the players on oxygen during the game and I've often thought that maybe the coaches should also be on oxygen.
A rental? I sure hope the flying school gives that aircraft a full inspection before letting anyone else fly it. Heck, he might even have trimmed some sagebrush with the Hstab 😄
He probably did not over stress the aircraft, this is not that kind of mistake, look at the speeds he was going. Almost only counts in love and horseshoes. 😁😁
I can confirm (as I have flown at this flight club and can see the scheduler) that it did not, in fact it flew with another pilot that very evening probably to watch fireworks around the denver area
A former boss, ATP with 4400hrs, managed to kill himself when he flew up the wrong canyon while trying to cross the divide. He was at 12,000ft in a Piper Arrow and still needed more than 1000ft more to have cleared that pass.
I remember being at the top of Mt Elbert in CO…I clearly heard inbound DEN commercial jets just a couple thousand feet overhead. There were literal mountain goats at the top. Love Independence Pass as well. You can’t truly appreciate how big and unforgiving these gigantic mountains are until you truly explore them on foot or at least vehicle at their extreme points. Lucky SOB.
Been hiking up near the railroad tunnel in that area years ago. Lovely area, but even my car had trouble with the altitude. And it's a car, not something that has to fly.
Lot of people talking about ground effect saving him, but I think it’s much more likely the mountain updraft wind that gave him a temporary effective airspeed burst to helped him pull up out of that quickly. 2,000 feet per minute straight down is only 22.7mph. However, add 40+ mph worth of mountain updraft and he’s flying again. Ground effect didn’t save him, the mountain winds did.
I'm going to guess this is the most probable, even though he's on downward side of the slope, the current could have curled and been following back up the mountain skirting along the ground. We call this rotor in paragliding, but also known as mechanical turbulence, or just crazy voodoo winds.
It reminded me of the Steve Fossett crash in the Sierra Nevada. High altitude with little room to wiggle. The area he crashed in was one I enjoyed hiking. I couldn't imagine flying there.
Oh. My. Goodness. I wish my Dad was still alive to compare an incredibly stupid thing he did. I think it was 1946 or 47 and Dad was either still in high school or just finished. He worked a deal with an older guy who flew in WW1 who owned a C140 (if I’m remembering correctly) to give him flying lessons in exchange for work. Dad got his PPL (or maybe he didn’t), he had about 20 hrs flying solo he said. One day he decided to see how high he could get the plane to go up out of Creston, B.C. in the heart of the Rockies. And if he got high enough he’ll go and have a look on the other side of this mountain. Well, he managed to get the bird just high enough and ventured over. He just got over to the other side and hit a massive downdraft with strong vortices. Dad said he went ass over tea kettle and couldn’t regain control, so he just let go of the controls. Miraculously the aircraft righed itself near the valley bottom. Dad said he saw snow, rocks, blue sky, and trees as he tumbled and thought he was a dead man. Fortunately he survived. He knew he was very lucky, was amazed the plane didn’t lose its tail or wings. But I don’t think it hit him just how lucky he was until after he completed h😅s mountain flying course in the RCAF. Dad always said there’s few old, bold, pilots and lots of us live cowards.
I got my Comm/Inst, CFI and Double I in Greeley, Co in 1979. The flight school had a STRICT policy against mountain flying unless you were doing the Mountain Flying course with an assistant chief in a Mooney M20C. 72* max temp and 15 kt max mountain top winds were strictly enforced as well (a lot of rescheduling was necessary!). 3 fellow students at the time rented a 172 from a different FBO and headed into the mountains not too far north of this area. They did not return. Typical box canyon event that a 172 could not climb out of. I made a few stupid mistakes as a young and inexperienced pilot (even fairly experienced with 1000 TT) but lived somehow. 20,000 hours later and retired comfortably, I see this persons mistake and hope he/she learns to NEVER cheat death again! Learn from your mistakes but learn MORE from other's mistakes.
@@Storriesmith haha I just asked because I wasn't sure when the CFI I knew did stuff there in the 70s into 80s was there in a chief role... sounds like maybe he was there a few years later. I flew with him later (90s). I did recognize Dimmer's name, though! And yeah, a long long time ago... Cheers!
I used to live in Georgetown, CO and am pretty familiar with that part of the front range. I know of at least two wreck sites between Berthoud Pass and Guanella Pass of pilots in similar craft who weren’t so lucky.
Many years ago in my V35B flying with some other Bonanzas in a super remote area (I am not saying where or when), I witnessed one of those planes descend to buzz a mountain top. From my safe altitude as the other plane entered the maneuver, I told the guy who was with me in in my plane; "If nobody gets hurt, this will be totally hilarious". Happily nothing went wrong, but damn I was scared for him because I KNOW what winds and downdrafts can be like in mountainous terrain. I, with my limited skill, use my skill and wisdom to avoid risk and stay maximally safe. I have a few memories of "stranding myself" at airports short of my destination when conditions ahead weren't up to snuff; none of those memories were unpleasant.
Great Analysis. I have debated whether this was a stall or a serious emergent canyon turn. Banked it hard unloaded the wing in the turn and sacrificed altitude for turn radius. I feel if would have stalled he would be dead. Especially with him pulling back so hard in the dive. No way could he have broken the stall. Maybe he would be willing to come on the channel and debrief what he did to recover. I can't believe he did a second attempt. I would have thought he would need to go to store to get some toilet paper.
I used to go to and from a worksite in the Andes (Salar de Hombre Muerto, Salta Prov. Argentina) Our self built gravel runway was at 11,900 feet elevation and we crossed a saddle in the Andes approx 15,000 feet. The King Air 200 managed to get off the ground at high rotation speed and strained to clear the "low" saddle. It was a pucker up kind of flight and we could only do it if we left just at sun rise. Our destination was frequently cloudy so the descent into Salta, Argentina was almost as much fun as the terrain crossing. That kind of fly is not a amateur kind of thing.
Man, flying up trying to cross the continental divide in a 150 at that time of the day is a death sentence. I’ve flown with friends who’ve crossed this pass multiple times and we only do it in the early am in planes. Even at 7am no way in hell I’m going to try that in a 150…
Exactly. I live in Colorado and got my mountain checkout during the summer. We only took off at like 7 or 8am. Thunderstorms are also a problem in the afternoons this time of year.
What I find strange is that he didn't just recognise he was too low and cicle to gain height, then fly straight and level across the divide... am I missing something- like hypoxia?
@@hotrodray6802 At sea level. That was probably 90 hp or less at that density altitude. Of course, the wings and prop also loose a similar percentage of performance.
Between 1000 and 1500 hours experience is a high risk period for many pilots. They have built experience and overconfidence that can cause big problems. I was starting to take risks with 1000 hours, but went to the airlines (2007), who kept me in order.
I Was probably just one of millions of people who sent you this. I actually watched this video twice and still can't believe what I saw. He can also log that flight as an accidental INTRO into LIFE & DEATH Aerobatics...
I briefly attended a "pilot program" in McKinney Texas before deciding to go Army. I can tell you from experience that being a pilot has become something parents are pushing their kids that don't want to go to college and be a doctor or lawyer. A lot of these kids can pass tests and are very good at the book work part of it but have zero interest and actually flying an airplane. Many doubling the average time to solo from what I'm told. All bad
This has become an issue here in Australia, with most flight schools now catering to the well-off/rich kids from India and China (*). Can't really blame the schools who want survive, but can't find enough Aussie students. It's become a rort: it's $150,000 to get to MEI (MECIR as it's called here). The kids weren't good enough for med or law school, but "my son/daughter is an airline pilot" apparently has a good enough cachet among the parents. (*) someone is going to spout off about "racist" I just know it. No, this is a simple statistical fact, that can be verified by looking at enrolments at flight academies across Australia and at CASA (our FAA). Some will become excellent pilots, but far too many, from actually speaking to CFIs, are there because it sounded glamorous.
@@michaelhoffmann2891 that's exactly the issue here to the letter. All the kids I went to school with where Americans but the majority came from families that culturally have their parents in their business forever. It's not racist they take pride in the fact their extremely involved in there kids lives talking down about most Americans that don't, kids being full on adults mind you. Problem is unlike myself who started flying young and will continue to do so for my country 🙏 hopefully because I want to, these kids either don't want to be there or are there because they think it's an easy way to make "120k in 18 months". The majority of the issue is the schools who will find you funding via grants or student loans. I personally think that the cfi's need to be independent of the schools. There were students that should never have been in a plane and didn't want to be but passed and will eventually be cfis that probably do a horrible job and on and on. That's why I decided to go Army hopefully it's the correct decision. Let you know in 9 years and 2 months 😉
@@michaelhoffmann2891 meh.. who cares if it's racist.. when your country's being invaded, and those in power cater to the invaders, one may as well be quite the sort.
Back in ‘07 I was part of the initial (next day) aerial search party for Steve Fossett, billionaire and aviation record holder who stuffed it into the mountains flying a Decathlon. It made me realize that any one of us can find ourselves in such a pickle. And if you say “not me”, then you just haven’t been flying long enough to understand how stuff can go south in a hurry.
The pilot was flying on my turf. I’ve done it safely for 55 years. And even in a Cessna 150. He has had zero mountain flying training. Westbound on that route in the afternoon is a fools errand. In addition, there are a few more benign routes nearby. Both of his approaches were into the back side of a wall. Guaranteed rotors in both locations. We don’t fly that route after noon, or when it’s hot, or when the wind is over 20 mph. God smiled on a fool today.
My CFI once did it with me for a laugh - with plenty of safety margins: he just wanted to show me what it's like when your GS goes negative (landing config, landing speed in a 172 into a mountain wave). He would turn over his left shoulder with one hand on the yoke and go "beep beep beep" like a truck backing up. 😆 Lessons like that stuck with me, better than any textbook!
Thank you for the local, seasoned pilot perspective.
@@michaelhoffmann2891old Chief pilot (1950s weather plane pilot) described getting up to 25,000 feet in a C172 in the mountain wave on the Reno side of Donner Pass and not being able to cross because of the downdraft. He was the smoothest pilot I ever rode with. He could land a C150 in a choppy gusty crosswind smooth as kiss the back of your hand, amazing.
@@michaelhoffmann2891 Bold pilot.
Wow. Just wow. I flew my biplane into the east side bowl of Monarch Pass westbound, made a determination that it was just too tight a margin, went back to Pueblo and shipped my baggage UPS. Then flew the pass early in the morning with plenty of clearance. I kept plenty of margin, had lots of clearance, but it still taught me huge respect for the Rockies. Thanks for the old, not-so-bold pilot’s perspective.
Density altitude doesn't just affect engine and airfoil performance, it affects the performance of the decision making system behind the yoke.
Underrated comment. Hypoxia up there is real. Decisions have to be made and kept as you go into the area. Those who experience euphoria are susceptible to feeling like it’s going better than the plan.
That's true. I've noticed that when NFL teams play in Denver the coaching decisions seem to be a little off compared to what you see when those same teams are playing down at lower altitudes. You often see the players on oxygen during the game and I've often thought that maybe the coaches should also be on oxygen.
@@Fang70 actually this should have been spoken about. Decision making above 8000ft can be impaired quite a bit, especially if you coming off from an illness etc.
@@joevignolor4u949 Denver and the stadium are SIGNIFICANTLY lower than Corona/Rollins Pass... but an interesting observation. Those of us from here always chuckle that the sports TV photographers always set up a camera with a stupidly long lens east of the city and "squash" the mountains closer to the city with the loss of depth of field, as B-roll footage for folks watching from other places. Those mountains and the Divide are 35-50 miles west of the center of the "Queen City of the PLAINS"... hehehe...Cheers!
Actually density altitude doesn’t really affect airfoil performance. At a specific dynamic pressure and a specific AoA the wing will generate the same lift always, unless it is a super critical airfoil where there is an effect of Mach number. So a glider will fly just fine at these altitudes. It is the engine that craps out.
You hear that kids? Thats Uncle Juan saying cut the shit.
but but... we want to play with ground effect! Again! I think.
I’m afraid the answer is no, they don’t hear him. The kind of people who do this kind of stuff are not the kind of people who are watching Juan Browne videos unfortunately.
I hope this comment gets pinned it’s too good
Juan is professional, you are not.
@@mattj65816 I too wonder if that pilot is taking exactly the wrong lesson from this even, especially after seeing this video. "See how awesome I am? I rock!" I have a low estimate of his life expectancy.
Way back in the day,, as a student wannabe pilot, my instructor said we were going from Lincoln (Ca) up to Reno Nv. in the school's Cessna 152 (N67321 --- after nearly 40 years I still remember the tail number --- and I did not just look that up!). It is a route up Hwy 80, following the freeway up the mountain. It was no way near 11,000 feet, but my instructor said 'we are going EARLY' due to density altitude. We had plenty of altitude/ground clearance, and all went well, but it taught me that mountain flying can be difficult and the need for care is paramount. The funny thing was: While taxiing out at Reno, we were behind a couple of National Guard F-4's. Needless to say, the Cessna did a little bumping around even while we were standing still on the ground! --- this was a memorable trip in more ways than one...... those were wonderful days!
Glad you got that out of your system.
@@TiffMcGiff Of course it is not about me, it is just a reminder that there is danger out there and we all need to be especially vigilant. Sorry if I DO tend to write more than I should. A huge thanks to Juan for always bringing these stories to us.
The first attempt showed a serious lack of judgement. The second attempt suggests an even more serious psychological issue regarding recognizing risk. I cannot imagine hiring him for any position involving piloting or even renting aircraft.
Yep. People this inclined towards “hold my beer” moments do not belong anywhere near commercial aviation. Or aviation at all, for that matter.
right? nearly died, and decided he'd try again!
If at first you don't succeed, try, try and try again...
Darwin Award candidate, for sure.
AGREED 👍👍
The statement that this is disrespectful to aviation is spot on. I rent from the same establishment and live in a town where a large portion of the residents hate the airport with a passion and are constantly looking for excuses to denounce it's existence. I feel honored that people trust me to fly them and even their kids over these passes and take these terrain crossings very seriously. While this clip is wildly entertaining, it is also thoroughly frustrating because I know this will be going through people's heads when I talk about mountain flying.
You need to stop complaining and go on the offensive. Airports around the country are under siege by developers who want the land around them for construction and the fools who bought recently built houses and now complain about the noise. Let them know that if they don’t like how things are, they need to sell and move. But the airport isn’t going anywhere.
Appeasement is how things got to where they are now. Most airports were built in the 40s and 50s.
He disrespected aviation is an awful assessment and thought. F aviation.
Why do people hate this airport?
@@joewoodchuck3824because a lot of people hate any and all airports because the sound of airplanes "disrupts their peace" 🙄
Motorcycles, trucks, and tuned cars are at least similar but no one is closing the roads...
@@joewoodchuck3824 It used to be out in the middle of nowhere... these days development has encroached all the way up to the airport boundary. The airport has been there since 1960. Don't buy a house near an airport if you're going to complain about aircraft noise, seems pretty simple. Much like Santa Monica.
I feel like we need a “you’re not stalling you’re falling” shirt
"You're not stalling; you're falling."
But with correct spelling.
@@Bright_Broccoli oh dang I’m an idiot fixed it
@@PeterLindstrom-x4w yep screwed that one up took me two fixes to get right
@@BIBSTERSrepairshopYour welcome.
I've got plenty of time in the Rockies at High DA in a C150, but I'd never have attempted that ridge crossing. And I was flying two C150/150s (150HP upgrade) with STOL LE extensions, wing fences, wing tips, gap seals, extended range fuel tank, and a climb propeller. They were very fun aircraft, but sometimes you still have to take the long way around.
Just as info, the aircraft did have the engine STC, I hear… but not the STOL toys. It’s a rental/club tail number.
Well said. The DA here in Colorado can easily get up to 9,000 or above during the summer months on certain days (FE 6,000’ where I was at). Mountain flying, especially during the summer in a single-engine airplane should not be treated lightly.
STOL is not cruise.
With the exception of the engine upgrade and gap sealing, all of those add ons are bad for high altitude flying. A high pitch prop and being clean and light are what you need to push the ceiling.
@@mytech6779 you obviously know nothing about this subject.
The STOL wingtips, wing fences and gap seals all improve the efficiency of the wing and control surfaces. This improves the aircraft's ceiling, climb, speed, and takeoff distance, and two of those factors are critical for crossing mountains.
The extra HP also improves climb, ceiling, speed, and acceleration. Which also helps when crossing mountains.
The climb prop also helps with acceleration, climb rate, takeoff distance, and is a factor in crossing mountains.
The STOL LE extensions physically changes the shape of the airfoil. It literally gives the wing a new shape and size. This new wing now generates more lift and has greater surface area. Once again, this improves takeoff distance, climb rate, and ceiling. This helps when crossing mountains.
The extra long range fuel tank also helps extend the range, now that she flies slower, and because you might find yourself flying over larger distances of uninhabited terrain when mountain flying in the Rockies. Gives you more options.
So, you are objectively and factually wrong. Every STOL mod helped the airplane fly higher, climb faster and steeper, accelerate faster, takeoff and land shorter at higher DAs.....
More HP, climb prop, larger wing, higher lift wing, more efficient wing (gap seals), lower induced drag when flying in high AOA, high lift, slow flying at closer to ceiling altitude conditions (wing fences, wingtips), all help to make a Cessna 150 climb better and fly higher when crossing the Rocky mountains.
@@SoloRenegade Golly that's a huge post just to prove your low reading comprehension.
Dang, I'm impressed the 152 held up to those aerobatics!
I soloed in a 150 aerobat. Don't recall if the 152 came in an aerobat too?
I know! I flew a 150 Aerobat for a few years. Those wings must have been at the limit.
@@kristensorensen2219 Yes. The 152 also came in the "Aerobat" trim.
Is there an inexpensive g-meter that can be used to track the use/abuse some rentals get subjected to?
You'd be surprised 😇
I fly out of the flight school this plane is from. I patted it on the strut today. I’m glad the pilot and plane are still with us. Unbelievable.
Did it happen to have any wrinkles in the wing skin?
Had the pilot seat been deep cleaned?
@@blueyonder1233 No need; pilot took it with him as he hasn't unpuckered yet.
@@Pylon5Productions Probably wrote up a squawk when he got back: "Left side seat cushion missing."
That strut may be a little longer.
Thanks for posting this. I live in Grand Co. Sky-Hi News posted this on their Facebook page. I got shelled for mentioning that he was being stupid, not “brilliant”. I’m going to direct the uninformed to this page! And, another thought, I’m thinking the club at Rocky Mtn airport in Broomfield may not want to rent him another plane….
Ski Hi News, a little ironic for this story, and yes he was lucky. I guess I missed the story, but I only read it about once a month.
That seems to be a trend when pointing out cockpit stupidity. I’ve pointed out things on UA-cam and I just get pummeled. People are so desperate for heroes that they’ll make a hero out of someone that made the problem they got out of. Beam me up!
@@ourlifeinwyoming4654 people get promoted for fixing the problems they create while those who are intelligent enough to avoid the problem in the first place are passed up.
@ourlifeinwyoming4654 This comment is on point!
Yep. They forget to realise they got themselves into that situation through stupidity
Oh I've done something similar. I was 18 years old and a friend asked me to fly some ice cream up to some hikers in the cascade mountains of WA state. We found the hikers and dropped the ice cream and it hit very close to them. We were pleased and only then did I start thinking about getting out of there. I was climbing up a valley looking up to trees on both sides and no way to turn around. By the grace of God I survived this lack of forethought, (this was back in 1963) I went on to do other stupid stuff in airplanes but I'm still here.
...and stupid enough to admit it publicly. Another dumbass I would not want to be anywhere near. I really hate "I got away with it once, so I will do it again" people!!
It was bad enough doing that back in 1963 but today there are so many more resources to learn from other people's mistakes and advice than back then, I would consider that even less excusable now.
Oh. You're _that_ Bill Casso. Sounds about right.
in my youth I walked around Rollins Pass. what I remember was seeing aircraft parts up there of someone who didn't make it.
As a former hanggliding pilot, I thought it might be worth mentioning lee rotors that can form on the lee side of the mountain.
You can get hit with a strong downdraft some distance from the ridge, followed by an equally strong tailwind driving you down into the quickly rising terrain.
Don't ask me how I know.. 😲
Very, very, lucky. Picked up way too many folks who failed that maneuver on the Collegiate Peaks in Colorado. That aircraft should not have been anywhere near that flight path. He didn't kill himself this time, but he will do so in the future if he keeps making bad decisions like this.
Are you originally from Colorado?
My dad was part of CAP in the late 50s in Salida. He learned to fly there
Sept 24 1956 my grandma's first husband was an Air Force C-47 pilot and crashed into Mt Yale on the way to San Franscisco. Wreckage is still there and accessible apparently. One of these days I'll make it up there.
And next time he might have a passenger he's trying to impress..."Hey, lookit what I can do with this aeroplane, would ya? Hyuk!"
Upon which time he and his unwitting and possibly overweight passenger will come to an untimely end.
You are right! And the fool attempted a second run right after? Did he learn anything? Only that his life expectancy is gonna be real short.
In the late 80's I worked for a crop duster that learned to Fly at Eagle Co. He used to fly a 65 hp Taylorcraft from Eagle to Denver and back. He said that he learned more about fling in the Taylor craft than any other plane!
I've said this many times, you need to learn to fly in a 65hp plane in the mountains.
The most scary thing about him is not that he almost died the first time but that he went right back into the same situation during the same flight. He is a danger to any passenger who flies with him.
I'll fly with you Mave
Can't give up riding cause you fell off the horse, get back on, get more altitude and try again lol
Maybe he's just a slow learner but he's got it now after the video came out? Who knows
Worse: I don't believe that he will ever, ever be a competent pilot.
If he had a small dog with him, he wouldn't have lived through the first attempt. If he had another person, he wouldn't have lived the 1st or 2nd one.
I live in Colorado and this exact aircraft flew over my house which is at roughly 7,500 in the front range. I was surprised that they were taking a 152 up here. I fly out of BJC and don’t go much higher than 8,500 on a good day. I’ve been behind this aircraft waiting for take off too, and Im shocked about what people try with them. Glad everyone is ok but more thorough analysis needs to be done before flying. Thanks for the great video
I landed at Laramie, Wyoming in a 1948 Stinson 108-3 for a fuel stop. I took off at 1:00 pm and it seemed like a long TO roll. I quickly realized I could only climb at about 50 feet per minute. I had to ease over to the right, northbound, and dip down into a river valley and managed to slowly gain altitude. I wasn’t being disrespectful to aviation, I was just an ignorant flatlander. I didn’t know to lean the mixture before TO. It was pure luck that saved me because I didn’t have passengers, and the long runway and river valley came to the rescue. So yes please don’t be ignorant, get the training.
There is no room for that kind of ignorance in aviation. You often don’t get a second chance when you make serious mistakes, so you make damn sure you aren’t making big mistakes right from the start.
i am also guilty but lived
I've never flown a Stinson, and I wasn't there when the incident you described occurred, obviously. But I have flown a 172RG out of Greely, CO (IIRC, it was about 20 years ago) on a hot July day, and we made three attempts to take off before asking a local CFI for tips. In my case, we did a run-up, leaned the mixture, taxied to the active, applied full power to start the take-off roll, noticed the engine sounded terrible and wasn't making power, aborted the take-off, repeat. We never got to the point of "long take-off roll" or "climbing at 50 fpm" before it was obvious things weren't right -- which brings me to the point of this post: if the DA was high enough to cause the issues you described, wasn't it high enough to cause the engine to run rough if you weren't leaned properly?
As an aside, the local CFI suggested we lean at run-up, then finish leaning with full throttle before releasing the brakes for take-off.
@@N600LW This flight was in 1984 and my Stinson had a 165 HP Franklin
six cylinder engine. It sounded fine during the TO roll. Loved that engine it idled like a P-51.
@@leedaeroSounds like an awesome airplane to fly. Glad your flight in 1984 turned out okay!
Pilot shows exceptional ability to likely increase my insurance rates even more. 😔
It was an accident.
@@dabneyoffermein595 About to happen...
@@dabneyoffermein595 NO. It was not an "accident". It was incompetence. It was very, VERY preventable.
🤣🤣🤣
@@Junior-ck3jq I guess human factors are a thing of the past after FAA published their “antidote” ACs. No longer we need to worry about people making mistakes…..
when i saw that pop up on X, my first thought was "what is blancolirio going to say?" LOL now i know
As a local who’s been flying in these mountains since I was 19, and I have white hair now… and a CFI… he got awfully lucky. As another old CFI friend said, “Well at least he gave us new material for the mountain flying course!” Lol.
Info is it was a rental aircraft, and had an engine conversion to slightly more horsepower. (The usual STC…)
Still, mid day, you can hear the winds in the mic in the video, high temperatures and high density altitude - not a good choice of equipment for this flight.
As you said Juan, he needed to decide to take his planned escape route much sooner. He cut it way too close for a typical “let’s see how performance goes today” decision-making type of flight.
Even on a cold day in a 182 solo, I’ve had to bail out on crossing Rollins. And it’s one of the “easier” passes. The terrain in the video isn’t in Rollins which is wider and more room for an escape until you’re committed, it’s steeper there.
That area, the terrain can and does out climb any piston single. You climb east of there and circle if you must…
I assume the pilot knows by now just how close to death he willfully pushed it.
I went onto the Rocky Mountain flight school website and it is the standard 110hp and is the cheapest plane they rent at $69/hr Wet when the website was updates on January 2024. The other 152s rent for $84/hr wet. N 45941 is the one that had an upgrade to 125hp.
@@shadowdog500 "live" locals state otherwise, but I will admit not knowing the aircraft personally. Aviation rental websites, updated??? When??? hahaha...
I just started flying through these mountains a few months ago for work with a pipeline company. I only fly the passes from West to East due to how I flight plan the route. It makes things way, WAY easier. I flew Rollins Pass on July 3rd around 1600 MST, but Eastbound. I was at the altitude I needed to be miles before reaching the pass.
@@VictoryAviation Who flies the aircraft back and resets it for you each time?
@@NatesRandomVideo I fly on the South side of Wyoming over pipeline that I need to patrol. That takes me West. Then I have lines that take me down the West side of Colorado. When I finish those, then I typically head over to Rifle, then fly Eastbound over the Rockies. It just works out like that with the circuit I typically fly.
I don't think they just flew into the box and dropped. One of the photos shows them approaching above the pass, but it's still bad and this is why.
Background: I'm an RC dynamic soaring pilot and we seek out places like this in winds like this to pilot our 30-45lb sailplanes through the shear layers to gain very high speeds. Some notable DS spots in SoCal are Parker Mountain, a hill near Weldon and Bird Springs Pass (current DS record there is 564 mph). I hold the current Colorado record at 352mph at Jones Pass (south west of Rollins Pass where he crossed)..
So what? Well what we've learned and what most folks don't realize is that when the wind is pumping like this it rises up the windward side of the mountain and *keeps* rising as it crosses over the ridge, wind speed peaks well above the leeward side before it starts to fall again well behind the ridge and then some of that air curls back down into a fairly well formed lee side rotor. This puts the horizontal shear layer between the frontside wind, and the lee side rotor *above* the height of the ridge. That means if you fly up from the lee side, and are only 100-200ft above the top of the pass (as one of the photos suggests they were), you will likely hit an enormous headwind and sink and if you manage to punch through that you'll find yourself under the sheer layer with a tailwind even if you're still briefly above the height of the pass and well behind it. That's why that plane just stopped flying and fell out of the sky. The interesting thing is, when they got turned around 180 degrees and pointed downhill they *might* have even had a headwind from the lee side rotor return flow which could have helped them recover. I've flown my sailplanes in slope lift *entirely* on the lee side of a mountain (the ravens and vultures do this all the time as well).
To avoid this you've gotta your plane up above the peak rising/compressed air can be 500+ft up and as much behind the the ridge.
Great observations. Thanks for sharing them!
Not many powered pilots understand much about mountain winds and how to use them! Thanks for sharing. If this pilot survives he will be very good . He had no passenger and may have been learning on his own terms💁
He could have been taking more risk by himself. I had a friend who did this; I miss him dearly!
This is a great explanation, thank you!
Them vulchers are waiting on "you".
"Dude, Juan says you're an idiot!"
"Whoa.......I'm FAMOUS!"
I lost two very good friends when they died crossing the divide in a citabria on their way back to Boulder. Crossed with sufficient altitude but something happened on the lee side and they spun in. Both were towpilots at the gliderport where I instructed and gave rides. Just an awful day that was. Mountain flying in single-engine airplanes is not something to be taken lightly.
In my glider club tow pilots must be glider pilots for this exact reason.
I am sorry to hear about your loss. Nice that you never forget them
They spun in from what? If they were on the leeward side, then the terrain should be quickly falling away, no?
@@VictoryAviation They spun in from getting too slow and uncoordinated and they didn't have enough altitude to recover. Obviously I have no idea why they got slow and uncoordinated. I wasn't there with them. No?
@@VictoryAviation wind shear, perhaps. Wind conditions can change quite abruptly when crossing extreme terrain.
He survived, despite repeated suicidal efforts. I grew up flying VFR in windy mountains - not the awful density altitude problem, though, mine was all at a cold 0-3000' density altitude in the West Fjords of Iceland in the 1970's.
Fortunately for me, I had a good mentor, Hörður Guðmundsson of Ernir Air. One tidbit was that if you are approaching a mountain ridge in a headwind (low because of clouds, not performance in our case) you approach at an oblique angle, preparing to abort rather than just bore on regardless (like this guy did).
The other tidbits of survival tips I received were countless, but the bottom line is that I retired from commercial/airline flying 10 years ago, I still fly and I have not yet written off any equipment due to personal clumsiness - but the potential is there! There is always the last chance to screw up due to overconfidence! I cling to the hope that my awareness of this will keep me safe...
I'm sure it will. Probably. :)
@@alexanderSydneyOz "Probably" is right. The moment you start blindly relying on your exceptional skills is the moment you are liable to mess things up...
1500 hr is a lot of time to build bad habits vs being picked up earlier by airlines to entrain good habits
What you know can hurt you.
I just can’t imagine what would happen to the industry if they got rid of the 1500 hour rule. I think it would be devastating honestly.
tell FAA and Congress that. I've given up trying.
@@yamkaw346 the 1500hr rule has DESTROYED the aviation industry and resulted in piss poor pilots. Blind leading the blind. preventing low time pilots from being mentored by senior pilots at teh most critical time in their careers.
the 1500hr rule came about after pilots with 2000-5000+ hrs caused a couple fatal accidents. the gov blamed low-time pilots, who had nothing to do with the accidents.
In fact, pilots with 0-1000hrs are THE safest pilots in all of aviation. complacency hasn't set in yet for them.
The 1500hr rule is responsible for pilots like this moron existing.
@@SoloRenegade It has also exploded the starting pay for regional airlines pilots which now averages over $90/ hour (as a young regional airline pilot I love that). I don’t remember the time before this rule but I can’t imagine only making $20k a year flying jets, which is how it was before the rule. Also who would instruct, fly skydivers, pipeline patrol and banner tow if you could just go straight to jets?
I guess I need to revise the saying from "Superior Judgment trumps Superior Skill" to Superior Judgment trumps Superior Luck?
Would make a great commercial for upholstery cleaner. Whatever they used to get the stains off of the left seat must be pretty impressive.
Personally I find jokes like this boring, pointlessly crude, and cliche
Mannnn I think the only thing that saved that was the ground effect cushion lol. Wayyyyy to dang close!
I love the “just how stupid that was” reviews. Especially when the pilot lives to see it. Good luck
I, too, did some REALLY stupid stuff building time. By the grace of God I survived. Each time I learned and NEVER did that again. This guy did not learn from his experience. I flew over Devils Thumb one time in a Cessna 182 (before 10 am) I cleared with less than 1000 feet. I vowed never again.
Thank you, Juan.
Let’s face it, a lot of us did som stupid stuff while flying in our youth, but we survived and learned from it.
A component of experience = (Wow, that was a close one + I’m not doing that again)
I was a student pilot in the early 70s in ABQ. every student study guide covers downdrafts after a crest. My instructor (bless her) always knew that showing is better than telling so she took me to the mtn ridges and had me fly downwind. soon as we crossed the crest ... BAM down like a shot. could not stop the sink ( there was plenty of room to work with) That was the day that "I learned about flying that...."
In a speedwing/paraglider you go directly into the ground because any amount of turbulence and the thing collapses.
I did the same thing through virga. About 7000 elevation, 172XP solo. Downdraft flattened out about 30 feet above ground. Education.
Pro tip from an aeronautical engineer and commercially-licensed pilot. With electric flaps in the C152, you can get any flap setting not just discrete values at the stops/detents. The first stop is 10 deg. If you put in 5-10 deg, I've found the performance to be greatly improved at low speed. Why? Wings naturally want more camber at slow speeds and less camber at high speeds. For propeller-driven aircraft, you're playing around with where the optimal CL/CD (best lift-to-drag) or optimal CL^(3/2)/CD (min power req'd ) airspeeds will be. It also changes the max L/D and min power req'd. Please don't buy into that plausible falsehood that flaps only add drag. They modify the entire drag polar, which includes lift, and sometimes you can use that to your advantage. At 5-10 deg, most flaps haven't opened up or deflected to the point where you get a large drag rise. YMMV. So stop flying straight and level to the next $100 hamburger and go learn what works in your plane.
Doesn't it also modify the stall to prevent tip stalling and make the stall more "soft" ?
That can work at i think dense air with more engine power. I learned to pop more flaps to jump over obstacles in Bush Pilot Training. But in thin air, less power, like over 5k feet msl, most airplanes i was told cant use much flaps, unless jet or turbo charged. You need best power to compensate for the extra drag. High power can use a lot of flaps, but not when low power.
Sailors can also attest to this. In light winds (=low airspeed), you want to add camber to your sail, in stronger winds, you flatten it out. It's practically the first thing you teach to a kid about trimming a sail.
@@kukuc96 I haven't thought of Cunningham eyes in 40+ years (since I moved away from the sea in Cornwall) - funny how old memories get triggered....
I’m a hang glider pilot. I’ve watched a paraglider fly himself himself somewhere he wasn’t going to be able to fly out of. I ran to get my camera rather than running to where I thought he was most likely to crash. My reasoning: “if he survives, he’s going to want to see this.” He survived, but got smashed into soft dirt, a full 18 inches away from the pavement.
Yup,.....those paragliders 😲
Let’s see the video
@@keithklein4313 happened in 2008. No idea where the video is
@@BrilliantDesignOnline Oi ! 🙂
@@CornishColin 🙂 (I have flown PG a bit; but now I stick with safe stuff, like hang gliding)
Unlike the incident above Telluride a couple years ago, the top of the ridge was visible to this pilot for awhile. It didn't sneak up on 'em around a corner. As far as canyons go, its not that boxy.
Corona pass is beautiful... lost of planes and parts still up there from previous... mistakes.
Juan: Love your channel. Thanks for your cogent analysis. I live and fly just east of Rawlins out of Boulder (KBDU) in my Bonanza, and Denver International and KDEN (PC-12s). I've crossed there many times in underpowered airplanes, and they're all gliders at Rawlins from time to time.
Amplifying, his first attempt was at the north end of the 10+ mile-wide "saddle" centered on Rawlins pass. No surprise that Devils Thumb pass (at the north end) doesn't appear on aviation maps - only on hiking maps. It is adjacent to rocky, sharp peaks and any NW flow turbulates over 12,500 - 13,000 peaks, affecting Devils Thumb well before Rawlins pass itself.
I note that his second attempt was centered on Rawlins Pass which is easily found by following the railroad tracks that disappear into the long railroad tunnel that inspired the tunnel in Ayn Rand's "The FountainHead".
Simply astonishing.
Great, a CFI out there teaching those same mistakes to another generation of students.
How to do close shaves.. Twice in same flight.
@CFITOMAHAWK A literal crash course. "Watch closely" I'm only going to show you this once".
I’d lay odds there was a potential in- cockpit video of it waiting for editing to the socials.
Can confirm, this guy was not a CFI at the school in which he rented this plane. Doubt an actual CFI, TBH.
My idiot CFIs were why I stopped flying. Never got my license. I wish I would have found a good one.
I’m a CO resident in the aviation community and I somehow did not hear about this. Great video.
No one should get in an airplane with this guy, ever.
Future prospective employers are going to be mindful of this.
Everyone makes mistakes, he’s young and i guarantee he learned more in this flight than any flight before
@@yamkaw346 No, He did not. He tried again few minutes later.
I wouldn’t say that. At least the second attempt cleared the hills at 500ft. It does appear that he has learned his lesson.
@@charron1 Haha yeah I saw that after I left that comment…. Definitely not a good look.
WOW, I've rented this aircraft a few times! Glad it was before this incident! 😳
For sale: Cessna 152 N65440. Pattern Queen- never flown out of visual of the field. 😉
Thanks for making this video lol I just had my mountain check today so it was a good reminder
As soon as I saw the video on Instagram I knew there would be a great blancolirio review of it!
Exceptionally lucky outcome.
I learned, soloed and earned my license in the 152, a great airplane. It does take a good 20 minutes to climb to 5k in Orlando. I cannot imagine how long it would have taken that 152 to climb to 12k. I also checked out in the 172, Cherokee 140/160/180 as well as the Tomahawk.
Candidate for the Darwin Award!
he/she ain't dead yet (required for DA). But spent a life credit right there. Who knows how many that pilot has left.
I know I've been through a few "life credits" but I'm no flier.
He lived, therefore he's a runner up.
@@wadepatton2433 DA technically doesn't require cessation of life--there are other (more painful) ways to remove oneself from the gene pool. It just tends to happen that most of the time the recipients get their award posthumously.
@@elosogonzalez8739 sadly a lot of people don’t believe in science or Darwin - to their peril.
@@marlinweekley51 Gravity isn’t just a good idea, it’s the law.
I’ve flown that ridge a bunch in a 182….usually rollins. Doing this at those temperatures and winds in a 152 is mind boggling. I hope that pilot learns something from the public reaction to this video because they clearly didn’t learn from cheating death.
Very lucky pilot ,then does it again,once would’ve been enough for me,thanks Juan hopefully the pilot may learn something from this incident. Safe flights mate,👏👏👋👋👍🇦🇺
Jesus and to think he i only a hundred hours from a seat in a commercial airliner. Guy is lucky to still be above ground. Great video as always👍
It’s amazing that he went back for more
This.
You misspelled "utterly, completely batsh*t crazy"
at least on the second attempt he had the altitude before he got to the mountain.
I did my primary flight training at the same departure airport (Jefferson County, now the ridiculously named Rocky Mountain Metro). My instructor was adamant about avoiding the mountains unless properly trained and flying in an appropriate aircraft. The idea of doing this in a 152 is nuts.
It is actually possible to build 1500 hours over flat land.
Well, obviously hours over mountains count twice, right? 😆
Not near as fun or pretty.
Lolz yea
@@michaelhoffmann2891 They may count twice, but they’re often your last.
Especially under bridges and power lines...
I haven't been on this channel in awhile, though been watching since the Oroville dam spillway failure. I'm 75 years old and in my youth had many adventures in the Indian Peaks Wilderness area. In my junior year in high school a friend and I went over Rollins Pass (by car) to fish in Pumphouse Lake, to the west of the old townsite of Corona. We observed a small plane struggling eastbound to clear the pass and watched it crash into the side of the mountains just about our campsite below the Rollins Pass road. With no explosion or fire whatsoever, we figured the guy must have run out of fuel, but never knew. We were about 1000' below the crash and it tooks us awhile to get to the site. All were deceased. On the east side of the divide, we came across three or four old wreckages, one west of the Coney Lakes, which is near Devil's Thumb. The winds build up as the daylight increases and it's not a time one would want to fly that way withough a lot of power. I've never been over the divide in a small aircraft, but did get flown along the east side of the mountains from about Long's Peak to Mt. Audobon. It was so bumpy I couldn't believe it. Obviously you have to be an experienced pilot! This new pilot is so incredibly lucky to be alive. Hope he learned his lesson.
Like Clint Eastwood once said in one of his movies "Dying is no way to make a living"
"The Outlaw Josie Wales".
"A man's got to know his limitations."
"Do you feel lucky, well do you, Punk ?"
"You boys gonna pull them pistols or just stand there whistling Dixie?"
@slidefirst694 I thought it went more like this: "Youse gotts ta know your limitations".(;>)
"The Climbing Wonder" is what my flight instructor called the C-152 at the Colorado flight school I learned at in the mid 80's. He called it that because you always wondered if it was going to climb. The judgement or lack thereof is hard to comprehend given the combination of plane + winds + July afternoon + altitude + terrain.
I flew out of KFMN (Farmington, NM) for 5 years. Every year at least one aircraft merges with the terrain due to the pilot underestimating or not knowing about density altitude. There's a Bonanza incident on UA-cam where the new airline pilot and his new wife (flight attendant) messed up near Bridal Veil Falls after they left KTEX (not enough money to get me to try to fly a GA aircraft into KTEX. It's doable... but I don't need the risk at this point in my life). That CFI was lucky plus a little skill. Luck and skill - cognitive skills makes for a fine life / death balance.
I did my mountain checkout in a C182. We flew to Leadville. There was still snow on the ground but DA was high. When we got back from the checkout the CFI asked me what my takeaway was. I said simple, don't fly in the mountains. :) Not with a naturally aspirated GA aircraft anyway. Personal minimums and all that.
I fly a nat aspirated 210 into often, no problem. 1. Learn how to lean for take off 2. Take offs Fl down hill over town (the valley) 🤪
@@marlinweekley51 I learned how to lean for takeoff years ago. 300HP vs 235HP. Throw in high density altitude and I'll pass.
@@marlinweekley51 and 3. Not at midday in the summer.
Damn, I currently reside 3 miles away from Devils Thumb. Super close to where I live
Duck!!!!
God he’s lucky to be alive. Think you could get him on for an interview and just see what his mind set was.
You mean the sound of a potato rotating in a microwave?
OMG...that's why I support you Juan...Thank You!
In a few years he'll be in the cockpit on your Southwest flight 😳
The fact that he made a second attempt freaking grinds me up. I didn’t know 152s can even fly in the summer. Like if you’re making a second attempt after that, something is seriously wrong in the head. This guy is the reason we don’t have nice things.
…the reason we have fewer and fewer 150s/152s.
Wonderful analysis and advise. This pilot survived his bad decision making, the next pilot may not. Thank you.
he Was the next pilot too, !!! in the way to Eagle
@@jamescollier3
Two things; cats have nine lives, you don't. Benjamin Franklin flew a kite with a wire into a lightning storm along with his grandson, both survived, the next seven experimenters did not.
As a Cessna 150 owner and pilot for 50 years This was extremely asking for death. I might blame whom ever taught this kid. Though some kids now days are stubborn and feel nothing can go wrong. A good pilot prepares for a flight days in advance and prepares for anything that might go wrong.
Nothing wrong with the kid. Always must look to the parents and any lack thereof.
@@paulsherman51 He’s an adult. Can’t blame crap on his parents any longer. He’s a CFI. Time to act like it.
It was reported that on arrival at Rifle, the A&P mechanic was unable to locate the pilot's side seat cushion.
It was served up at the air port cafe
Trapped in the 'jaws' of permaclench, & luckily, the wagging bustle of spent bravado : )
Should the flight school do any special inspections of that airframe after that bout of rough and tumble handling - can they also perhaps refuse the application of those flight hours for use as compliant pilot logged air time?
I’d AGREE with Juan’s 500 ft remark. When it’s windy you should have 2000 ft to cross a ridge line. 500 will almost always put you in the downdraft. In calm winds 1000 feet may be acceptable.
I heard Juan say 500 was nowhere near enough.
@@SM-if4nz maybe I misheard him, I’ll go back and listen again
@@SM-if4nzYou were right, correction has been made
@@utah20gflyer76 you need 500, you may not be able to get more. I cross Rollins at 12500, I won’t cross with less, I would never cross at Devil’s Thumb, winds are to inconsistent. Rollins Pass is 11.6, if you approach from Rollinsville/East Portal you are crossing at a 45/30° angle. If you had to there are places you could land and survive. There are none at Devil’s Thumb. The elevation there is over 12500.
I know someone who used to work at the school this airplane is from. There's actually a picture somewhere of her taxiing this very tail. Crazy to see it getting used for insanity like this.
Pretty close to meeting his shadow.😮
I grew up in that area, and every few years we would have a plane crash into these passes. Usually it was a flat lander in something like a fully loaded 172 going into Rollins Pass, not a local CFI who should know better.
Never mind the altitude MSL: it's July in Denver. I learned to fly there. The density altitude must have been in the "FAA requires use of oxygen" levels. C152 were often enough grounded at that time of year: you couldn't even get off the ground in KAPA (Centennial airport)! Juan mentions it, but man, I was getting flashbacks. I didn't feel safe flying west from that area until I had my high-perf/complex endorsement and could get into a turbo-charged plane.
Mountains with no turbo = NO GO
I've noticed that when NFL teams play in Denver the coaching decisions seem to be a little off compared to what you normally see when those same teams are playing down at lower altitudes. You often see the players on oxygen during the game and I've often thought that maybe the coaches should also be on oxygen.
@@Cwra1smith. Power is no solution in these conditions. Understanding air is Glider s fly this by understanding and using this energy.
A rental? I sure hope the flying school gives that aircraft a full inspection before letting anyone else fly it. Heck, he might even have trimmed some sagebrush with the Hstab 😄
Oh you know they won’t.
He probably did not over stress the aircraft, this is not that kind of mistake, look at the speeds he was going. Almost only counts in love and horseshoes. 😁😁
I can confirm (as I have flown at this flight club and can see the scheduler) that it did not, in fact it flew with another pilot that very evening probably to watch fireworks around the denver area
@@rileyk5628 that's scary AS HELL. so they're all aware of it right? and they don't care to have it checked?? do u know of the pilot?
There's got to be a scuff on the vegetation from that.
A former boss, ATP with 4400hrs, managed to kill himself when he flew up the wrong canyon while trying to cross the divide. He was at 12,000ft in a Piper Arrow and still needed more than 1000ft more to have cleared that pass.
I couldn’t tell if this was real when I saw it on X. Thanks for covering!
I remember being at the top of Mt Elbert in CO…I clearly heard inbound DEN commercial jets just a couple thousand feet overhead. There were literal mountain goats at the top. Love Independence Pass as well.
You can’t truly appreciate how big and unforgiving these gigantic mountains are until you truly explore them on foot or at least vehicle at their extreme points.
Lucky SOB.
Been hiking up near the railroad tunnel in that area years ago. Lovely area, but even my car had trouble with the altitude. And it's a car, not something that has to fly.
Lot of people talking about ground effect saving him, but I think it’s much more likely the mountain updraft wind that gave him a temporary effective airspeed burst to helped him pull up out of that quickly. 2,000 feet per minute straight down is only 22.7mph. However, add 40+ mph worth of mountain updraft and he’s flying again. Ground effect didn’t save him, the mountain winds did.
Wind was from the west, it would have been a downdraft.
Agreed. He was at the mercy of the winds and what little ground effect he had at 25ft AGL. That 152 looked like a leaf being tossed-around. Lucky
Stats suggests he was flying INTO a headwind coming over the ridge... So he had a tailwind going down.
I'm going to guess this is the most probable, even though he's on downward side of the slope, the current could have curled and been following back up the mountain skirting along the ground. We call this rotor in paragliding, but also known as mechanical turbulence, or just crazy voodoo winds.
@@hotrodray6802 Rotor winds, guys. It's not laminar flow over the ridge.
My flight instructor preached to me the 3 levels of training: Survival, Skill, and Style.
It reminded me of the Steve Fossett crash in the Sierra Nevada. High altitude with little room to wiggle. The area he crashed in was one I enjoyed hiking. I couldn't imagine flying there.
Oh. My. Goodness. I wish my Dad was still alive to compare an incredibly stupid thing he did. I think it was 1946 or 47 and Dad was either still in high school or just finished. He worked a deal with an older guy who flew in WW1 who owned a C140 (if I’m remembering correctly) to give him flying lessons in exchange for work. Dad got his PPL (or maybe he didn’t), he had about 20 hrs flying solo he said. One day he decided to see how high he could get the plane to go up out of Creston, B.C. in the heart of the Rockies. And if he got high enough he’ll go and have a look on the other side of this mountain. Well, he managed to get the bird just high enough and ventured over. He just got over to the other side and hit a massive downdraft with strong vortices. Dad said he went ass over tea kettle and couldn’t regain control, so he just let go of the controls. Miraculously the aircraft righed itself near the valley bottom. Dad said he saw snow, rocks, blue sky, and trees as he tumbled and thought he was a dead man. Fortunately he survived. He knew he was very lucky, was amazed the plane didn’t lose its tail or wings. But I don’t think it hit him just how lucky he was until after he completed h😅s mountain flying course in the RCAF. Dad always said there’s few old, bold, pilots and lots of us live cowards.
Crazy. Most small craft pilots departing Rocky Mtn airport fly to WY and cross divide at 7500 ft..extra hour...
I got my Comm/Inst, CFI and Double I in Greeley, Co in 1979. The flight school had a STRICT policy against mountain flying unless you were doing the Mountain Flying course with an assistant chief in a Mooney M20C. 72* max temp and 15 kt max mountain top winds were strictly enforced as well (a lot of rescheduling was necessary!). 3 fellow students at the time rented a 172 from a different FBO and headed into the mountains not too far north of this area. They did not return. Typical box canyon event that a 172 could not climb out of. I made a few stupid mistakes as a young and inexperienced pilot (even fairly experienced with 1000 TT) but lived somehow. 20,000 hours later and retired comfortably, I see this persons mistake and hope he/she learns to NEVER cheat death again! Learn from your mistakes but learn MORE from other's mistakes.
Was the assistant named Keith then?
@@NatesRandomVideo That’s a lot of years ago… maybe a helicopter guy? Emery Aviation. Pabst, Green ,Tarwater. 78-80. Ditmer was the DE.
@@Storriesmith haha I just asked because I wasn't sure when the CFI I knew did stuff there in the 70s into 80s was there in a chief role... sounds like maybe he was there a few years later. I flew with him later (90s). I did recognize Dimmer's name, though! And yeah, a long long time ago... Cheers!
I’m impressed he did not freeze up and was successful (and lucky) in completing his maneuver. Many would likely have froze.
I used to live in Georgetown, CO and am pretty familiar with that part of the front range. I know of at least two wreck sites between Berthoud Pass and Guanella Pass of pilots in similar craft who weren’t so lucky.
At 9 minutes, you put it so well into perspective that your conclusion is inevitably obvious.
Many years ago in my V35B flying with some other Bonanzas in a super remote area (I am not saying where or when), I witnessed one of those planes descend to buzz a mountain top. From my safe altitude as the other plane entered the maneuver, I told the guy who was with me in in my plane; "If nobody gets hurt, this will be totally hilarious". Happily nothing went wrong, but damn I was scared for him because I KNOW what winds and downdrafts can be like in mountainous terrain.
I, with my limited skill, use my skill and wisdom to avoid risk and stay maximally safe. I have a few memories of "stranding myself" at airports short of my destination when conditions ahead weren't up to snuff; none of those memories were unpleasant.
Great Analysis. I have debated whether this was a stall or a serious emergent canyon turn. Banked it hard unloaded the wing in the turn and sacrificed altitude for turn radius. I feel if would have stalled he would be dead. Especially with him pulling back so hard in the dive. No way could he have broken the stall. Maybe he would be willing to come on the channel and debrief what he did to recover. I can't believe he did a second attempt. I would have thought he would need to go to store to get some toilet paper.
yeah, It never looked like he was out of control.........
I agree - makes sense for a high hour CFI to be able to do this maneuver.
I used to go to and from a worksite in the Andes (Salar de Hombre Muerto, Salta Prov. Argentina) Our self built gravel runway was at 11,900 feet elevation and we crossed a saddle in the Andes approx 15,000 feet. The King Air 200 managed to get off the ground at high rotation speed and strained to clear the "low" saddle. It was a pucker up kind of flight and we could only do it if we left just at sun rise. Our destination was frequently cloudy so the descent into Salta, Argentina was almost as much fun as the terrain crossing. That kind of fly is not a amateur kind of thing.
Wow... Thanks Juan.
Man, flying up trying to cross the continental divide in a 150 at that time of the day is a death sentence. I’ve flown with friends who’ve crossed this pass multiple times and we only do it in the early am in planes. Even at 7am no way in hell I’m going to try that in a 150…
Exactly. I live in Colorado and got my mountain checkout during the summer.
We only took off at like 7 or 8am. Thunderstorms are also a problem in the afternoons this time of year.
150 horse
What I find strange is that he didn't just recognise he was too low and cicle to gain height, then fly straight and level across the divide... am I missing something- like hypoxia?
@@hotrodray6802 At sea level. That was probably 90 hp or less at that density altitude. Of course, the wings and prop also loose a similar percentage of performance.
Just a few inches from being on a Dan Gryder video
Boy his Guardian Angel was with him as co-pilot
Juan, I ate my seat cushion seeing this video. I can't imagine what the passenger/errrr pilot was thinking.
That pilot was definitely a passenger 😮
Between 1000 and 1500 hours experience is a high risk period for many pilots. They have built experience and overconfidence that can cause big problems. I was starting to take risks with 1000 hours, but went to the airlines (2007), who kept me in order.
Won the lottery that day.
Twice but, sadly, their Idiocracy genes still survive to multiply exponentially.
I Was probably just one of millions of people who sent you this. I actually watched this video twice and still can't believe what I saw. He can also log that flight as an accidental INTRO into LIFE & DEATH Aerobatics...
I briefly attended a "pilot program" in McKinney Texas before deciding to go Army. I can tell you from experience that being a pilot has become something parents are pushing their kids that don't want to go to college and be a doctor or lawyer. A lot of these kids can pass tests and are very good at the book work part of it but have zero interest and actually flying an airplane. Many doubling the average time to solo from what I'm told. All bad
This has become an issue here in Australia, with most flight schools now catering to the well-off/rich kids from India and China (*). Can't really blame the schools who want survive, but can't find enough Aussie students. It's become a rort: it's $150,000 to get to MEI (MECIR as it's called here). The kids weren't good enough for med or law school, but "my son/daughter is an airline pilot" apparently has a good enough cachet among the parents.
(*) someone is going to spout off about "racist" I just know it. No, this is a simple statistical fact, that can be verified by looking at enrolments at flight academies across Australia and at CASA (our FAA). Some will become excellent pilots, but far too many, from actually speaking to CFIs, are there because it sounded glamorous.
True that the general population has no grip on technology, at least many do not.
@@michaelhoffmann2891 that's exactly the issue here to the letter. All the kids I went to school with where Americans but the majority came from families that culturally have their parents in their business forever. It's not racist they take pride in the fact their extremely involved in there kids lives talking down about most Americans that don't, kids being full on adults mind you. Problem is unlike myself who started flying young and will continue to do so for my country 🙏 hopefully because I want to, these kids either don't want to be there or are there because they think it's an easy way to make "120k in 18 months". The majority of the issue is the schools who will find you funding via grants or student loans. I personally think that the cfi's need to be independent of the schools. There were students that should never have been in a plane and didn't want to be but passed and will eventually be cfis that probably do a horrible job and on and on. That's why I decided to go Army hopefully it's the correct decision. Let you know in 9 years and 2 months 😉
@@michaelhoffmann2891 meh.. who cares if it's racist.. when your country's being invaded, and those in power cater to the invaders, one may as well be quite the sort.
@@michaelhoffmann2891Basair.... Couldn't agree more.
Took off from Denver with an all white paint scheme. Landed with multicolor brown streaks all over the airframe (some were from sheep)
Reminds me of Art Scholl's flying in Iron Eagle.
shame how he went out
That was precision, this was buffoonery
Back in ‘07 I was part of the initial (next day) aerial search party for Steve Fossett, billionaire and aviation record holder who stuffed it into the mountains flying a Decathlon. It made me realize that any one of us can find ourselves in such a pickle. And if you say “not me”, then you just haven’t been flying long enough to understand how stuff can go south in a hurry.
Very true. Complacency leading to bad judgement probably kills more pilots than anything else.
damn......let's get that meat servo on the channel and have them explain....