Back to Back vids? Nice, glad to see a new take on tierlists (I like tierlists mostly just to hear people debate about something for hours even if a little lazy)
Quick sub, great video! Would love a graphic or something to show who’s made it “above the line”. Or maybe take the average number of deployment slots and use that as a baseline? I know you didn’t talk about the lords but Ike’s defensive utility upon promotion is why I’ve never understood the hate. Sure he’s not amazing but he’s pretty solid. Also the better user of the boots over Reyson imo
One thing i would absolutely mention in regards to Soren and Ilyana would be the fact that they both have one thing going for them: They have enough speed and bulk to USUALLY (aka in pretty much all cases apart from brave weapons), survive 1 roune of combat. Why is this important? Ilyana comes with the shade skill, and Soren is the best candidate to get the shade scroll. Shade works like this: IF any other unit is in range, AND the unit with shade cannot be killed in 1 round of combat, they will NEVER be targeted. So you can use them as staff users very offensively on top of the very good combat stats. In regards to Laguz: Hard disagree. Lethe falls off hard stat wise in my experience. Mordecai may transform later, but he is just that much bulkier, hits that much harder when it really matters, alongside better supports and smite. Muarim is also really solid with no investment needed and stays relevant throughout the game as one of your best phyisical damage dealers. Janaff is not exactly bad, but i wouldn't put him or lethe anywhere near the tigers. Where the tigers can really shine is in their lategame. Their caps in especially str and def are higher than anyone else (~34 iirc) which can let them do just as well as job if not sometimes a better one than your armor knights (since 1-2 range weapons can be pretty weak, even when forged). Laguz are also very economical since their weapons don't cost anything to use, while they can hit as hard as some of your units do with silver weapons.
@@Donlot_ I just feel like I have observed differently. If you find a definitive source, please let me know, as I have been curious about exactly how it works, both in PoR and RD (and how it compares to Stillness in the latter). I have looked it up and only found conflicting information on forums.
This is true, but I’ve found in practice that in a map where there’s a lot of exp, it’s very difficult for EVERYONE to get their hands on the knight ward for that lvl up. It’s doable and I do it a lot in my Ironman, but I wouldn’t fault someone for not going through extremes to min max that. Titania however is in a rough spot, because by the time it comes around, she’s usually gotten quite some few levels on her, meaning that she can’t take full advantage of the knights ward 30% buff across all her leveling.
I did my Maniac playthrough with info but decently uninformed and a V formation of Shade Soren, Ike, Oscar, Marcia, Kieran and Tanith with reyson enclosed can create for an almost indestructible squad, only thing to fear is snipers, other than that this wall is just insane
I can understand the point that cavalry is good but I feel like people give them too much credit, I don't like having my entire army being on horse or flying just because "it's better then not". Gatrie usually do way more for me then any cavalier in my run, same for Mia since I fix her damage with support and she dodge thanks to good luck growth, she is a good bait with provoke since enemy won't always go for provoke if they find a target that cannot retaliate, also Mia is the best candidate for gamble do to fire affinity booster hit rate and having access to vague kati and killing edge early
Nice Video! The only thing i'd like to argue is about Marcia, Jill and Oscar. I agree when you say having access to axes is an advantage, however Marcia have some advantages of her own. Marcia comes earlier and you can work on her sooner if you plan to use her in your team. Let's not forget about her RES, she fares much better than Jill against tomes and siege tomes, and if you can "fix" Jill with pure water, you can make Marcia almost immune or even completely immune to magic with pure water. Lastly, her STR cap might be 23 but Oscar's cap is 26, the difference is really that much? I mean, c'mon... 3 points is really so important? If you can afford forges to Oscar, then you can afford forges for Marcia since both share access to lances. The argument about Marcia's STR cap doesn't make sense to me at all and i don't understand why this can botter some players, specially when you realize Ike STR cap is 26... Anyway, excellent video. Keep up with your charisma and good content.
I don’t want you to think that Marcia doesn’t deserve a deployment slot. She’s likely barely missing out on Unbenchables to me, but it is indeed because of that 23 cap. Perhaps I’m being a bit harsh, but the 26 with a fully forged silver axe equates to 4 more damage without counting weapon triangle (and there’s a lot of lances towards mid/endgame) which means 8 more damage against most enemies. Don’t get me wrong, Marcia is great, I do agree pure water Marcia is pretty good too, but… mage killer is kind of a meme to justify units. Still her defenses aren’t on par with Jill or Oscar (one due to just defense the other due to earth affinity) so she’s basically relegated to hit and run Strats. Her Hp is a little on the low side as well. Again, not a bad unit by any means, but just needs some fixing in too many categories IMO to be considered Unbenchable.
@@FireEmbros The main purpose of pure water on Marcia is not being a mage killer, but is being able to eliminate key enemies so you can move foward faster. I think where Marcia shines the most is in chapter 21 Without a King. There you have to deal with a bunch of siege tomes and siege staves. Sure, you can just sit there and wait the enemy break their weapons but this can invite disaster on a ironman and its not a optimal strategy at all. If you consider Tanith unbenchable you can make Tanith support with Marcia, that way, Tanith gives Earth Affinity to increase their survivability while Marcia contributes with Fire Affinity to increase their damage output. Tanith and Marcia can fly around together and do more stuff consistently where most of your squad cannot, and even if they can do a good job in their own way they can't replicate what Marcia and Tanith do together. In PoR if Horses = Good, then Pegasus = Excellent in terms of movement and strategy. Without supports, Jill is probably more usefull and stronger than Marcia, but with supports Marcia has more options and more potential. In the end of the day, its your choice, its our choice. We can use whoever we desire in our runs. I just wanted to point out why i believe Marcia is a good unit, maybe even unbenchable for some players.
SIDENOTE: Sometimes I comment on something, I read it to see if everything is ok because English is not my native language, so if I notice a writing error I delete my comment and write it again so that everyone can understand me. I hope this doesn't bother you.
I swear man oscar is like the god I never see he preforms amazingly for everyone except me in both my playhtroughs he got strength screwed and i had to bench him in all fairnes i didn't plan to use him in my first run but still i never once saw him level strength and in my second run when i tried to use him he didn't level strength at all again. i personally also think marcia is god tier but i think it's a personal taste issue still i think your a bit to hunch up on that strength cap. i agree with your other points though it's funny i benched like most of your unbenchables but i don't really care for how good a unit is if I like them i'll use them.
Tell that to my level 14 Oscar with 29/8/4/8/9/7/8/2 stats. Oscar is the only growth unit in the series that consistently performs badly for me, even in Radiant Dawn. (Usually not quite that badly, but still.) Meanwhile, Radiant Dawn is home to the only growth unit who never fails me: Aran.
Yeah those are some pretty bad stats, but that’s probably the 99th percentile on the left side of the average curve as opposed to the norm. In radiant dawn the problem is alleviated a bit due to how bônus experience works, so it doesn’t surprise me better results are obtained with other units like Aran as well!
@@FireEmbros He was at the 6.1/6.5/83.9/3.3/6.5/31.3/0.9/31.3 percentile in each stat. In terms of total growths, it would take way too long to calculate the exact percentile, but consider that his total weighted growths amounted to 46.68 out of the expected 88 (or 31.68 out of the expected 77 if you discount the mostly useless Magic stat), with his total gross growths being 16 out of the expected 34.1 (or 13 out of the expected 31.9 discounting Magic). In other words, he was very unlucky. My Oscars always seem to be unlucky though, and therefore usually get benched.
holy crap, a metagame discussion video that actually benefits the viewer??? Amazing video, man.
The intro hit hard and followed up by actually valuable perspectives and takes. Appreciate you changing the game - keep it up!
Back to Back vids?
Nice, glad to see a new take on tierlists (I like tierlists mostly just to hear people debate about something for hours even if a little lazy)
Quick sub, great video! Would love a graphic or something to show who’s made it “above the line”. Or maybe take the average number of deployment slots and use that as a baseline?
I know you didn’t talk about the lords but Ike’s defensive utility upon promotion is why I’ve never understood the hate. Sure he’s not amazing but he’s pretty solid. Also the better user of the boots over Reyson imo
One thing i would absolutely mention in regards to Soren and Ilyana would be the fact that they both have one thing going for them: They have enough speed and bulk to USUALLY (aka in pretty much all cases apart from brave weapons), survive 1 roune of combat.
Why is this important? Ilyana comes with the shade skill, and Soren is the best candidate to get the shade scroll. Shade works like this:
IF any other unit is in range, AND the unit with shade cannot be killed in 1 round of combat, they will NEVER be targeted. So you can use them as staff users very offensively on top of the very good combat stats.
In regards to Laguz: Hard disagree. Lethe falls off hard stat wise in my experience. Mordecai may transform later, but he is just that much bulkier, hits that much harder when it really matters, alongside better supports and smite. Muarim is also really solid with no investment needed and stays relevant throughout the game as one of your best phyisical damage dealers. Janaff is not exactly bad, but i wouldn't put him or lethe anywhere near the tigers.
Where the tigers can really shine is in their lategame. Their caps in especially str and def are higher than anyone else (~34 iirc) which can let them do just as well as job if not sometimes a better one than your armor knights (since 1-2 range weapons can be pretty weak, even when forged).
Laguz are also very economical since their weapons don't cost anything to use, while they can hit as hard as some of your units do with silver weapons.
@@Donlot_ true!!! Bulk like that helps them use their potential to the max as well!
What is your source for how Shade works? I have heard conflicting descriptions.
@@cullenhutchison6528 Testing it out? I make use of shade every playthrough
@@Donlot_ I just feel like I have observed differently. If you find a definitive source, please let me know, as I have been curious about exactly how it works, both in PoR and RD (and how it compares to Stillness in the latter). I have looked it up and only found conflicting information on forums.
I think it is acceptable to run Lethe until you get Muarim. She's quite good when you get her, iirc.
Remember, everyone. Horse = good xD
Actually speed for cavaliers is not a big problem because the Knight Ward increase their speed grow by 30%
This is true, but I’ve found in practice that in a map where there’s a lot of exp, it’s very difficult for EVERYONE to get their hands on the knight ward for that lvl up. It’s doable and I do it a lot in my Ironman, but I wouldn’t fault someone for not going through extremes to min max that. Titania however is in a rough spot, because by the time it comes around, she’s usually gotten quite some few levels on her, meaning that she can’t take full advantage of the knights ward 30% buff across all her leveling.
I did my Maniac playthrough with info but decently uninformed and a V formation of Shade Soren, Ike, Oscar, Marcia, Kieran and Tanith with reyson enclosed can create for an almost indestructible squad, only thing to fear is snipers, other than that this wall is just insane
Axes to Axes, Dust to Dust, I always forget if Handaxes are busted in PoR and RD or just RD..
Nice Video!
I can understand the point that cavalry is good but I feel like people give them too much credit, I don't like having my entire army being on horse or flying just because "it's better then not". Gatrie usually do way more for me then any cavalier in my run, same for Mia since I fix her damage with support and she dodge thanks to good luck growth, she is a good bait with provoke since enemy won't always go for provoke if they find a target that cannot retaliate, also Mia is the best candidate for gamble do to fire affinity booster hit rate and having access to vague kati and killing edge early
The Laguz units are the ACTUAL prepromotes of this game to be honest
@@something1558 100% they are!
Come on Axomm, the inbenchables sounds WAY better. Really good satire though, weird seeing you beardless tbh.
Tanith in RD is broken. Easy to promote. Will likely sweep enemies. Easily maxes out stats. Even works great late game. She joins late but is top tier
I feel like she is routinely underrated. Her biggest issue is having too much competition for wishblade.
Nice Video! The only thing i'd like to argue is about Marcia, Jill and Oscar. I agree when you say having access to axes is an advantage, however Marcia have some advantages of her own. Marcia comes earlier and you can work on her sooner if you plan to use her in your team. Let's not forget about her RES, she fares much better than Jill against tomes and siege tomes, and if you can "fix" Jill with pure water, you can make Marcia almost immune or even completely immune to magic with pure water. Lastly, her STR cap might be 23 but Oscar's cap is 26, the difference is really that much? I mean, c'mon... 3 points is really so important? If you can afford forges to Oscar, then you can afford forges for Marcia since both share access to lances. The argument about Marcia's STR cap doesn't make sense to me at all and i don't understand why this can botter some players, specially when you realize Ike STR cap is 26... Anyway, excellent video. Keep up with your charisma and good content.
I don’t want you to think that Marcia doesn’t deserve a deployment slot. She’s likely barely missing out on Unbenchables to me, but it is indeed because of that 23 cap. Perhaps I’m being a bit harsh, but the 26 with a fully forged silver axe equates to 4 more damage without counting weapon triangle (and there’s a lot of lances towards mid/endgame) which means 8 more damage against most enemies. Don’t get me wrong, Marcia is great, I do agree pure water Marcia is pretty good too, but… mage killer is kind of a meme to justify units. Still her defenses aren’t on par with Jill or Oscar (one due to just defense the other due to earth affinity) so she’s basically relegated to hit and run Strats. Her Hp is a little on the low side as well. Again, not a bad unit by any means, but just needs some fixing in too many categories IMO to be considered Unbenchable.
@@Cronos16842 totally respect that, she’s indeed very very good!
@@FireEmbros The main purpose of pure water on Marcia is not being a mage killer, but is being able to eliminate key enemies so you can move foward faster. I think where Marcia shines the most is in chapter 21 Without a King. There you have to deal with a bunch of siege tomes and siege staves. Sure, you can just sit there and wait the enemy break their weapons but this can invite disaster on a ironman and its not a optimal strategy at all. If you consider Tanith unbenchable you can make Tanith support with Marcia, that way, Tanith gives Earth Affinity to increase their survivability while Marcia contributes with Fire Affinity to increase their damage output. Tanith and Marcia can fly around together and do more stuff consistently where most of your squad cannot, and even if they can do a good job in their own way they can't replicate what Marcia and Tanith do together. In PoR if Horses = Good, then Pegasus = Excellent in terms of movement and strategy. Without supports, Jill is probably more usefull and stronger than Marcia, but with supports Marcia has more options and more potential. In the end of the day, its your choice, its our choice. We can use whoever we desire in our runs. I just wanted to point out why i believe Marcia is a good unit, maybe even unbenchable for some players.
SIDENOTE: Sometimes I comment on something, I read it to see if everything is ok because English is not my native language, so if I notice a writing error I delete my comment and write it again so that everyone can understand me. I hope this doesn't bother you.
@@Cronos16842 doesn’t bother me at all!
No clue as to how or why i got gifted a membership but nice vids
@@Card_lol glad you liked them!!!
I swear man oscar is like the god I never see he preforms amazingly for everyone except me in both my playhtroughs he got strength screwed and i had to bench him in all fairnes i didn't plan to use him in my first run but still i never once saw him level strength and in my second run when i tried to use him he didn't level strength at all again. i personally also think marcia is god tier but i think it's a personal taste issue still i think your a bit to hunch up on that strength cap. i agree with your other points though it's funny i benched like most of your unbenchables but i don't really care for how good a unit is if I like them i'll use them.
Tell that to my level 14 Oscar with 29/8/4/8/9/7/8/2 stats.
Oscar is the only growth unit in the series that consistently performs badly for me, even in Radiant Dawn. (Usually not quite that badly, but still.) Meanwhile, Radiant Dawn is home to the only growth unit who never fails me: Aran.
are you the guy that posted the thread on reddit within the last month?
@@Simpleborrego I don't use Reddit, so I have no idea what you're talking about.
Yeah those are some pretty bad stats, but that’s probably the 99th percentile on the left side of the average curve as opposed to the norm. In radiant dawn the problem is alleviated a bit due to how bônus experience works, so it doesn’t surprise me better results are obtained with other units like Aran as well!
@@FireEmbros He was at the 6.1/6.5/83.9/3.3/6.5/31.3/0.9/31.3 percentile in each stat. In terms of total growths, it would take way too long to calculate the exact percentile, but consider that his total weighted growths amounted to 46.68 out of the expected 88 (or 31.68 out of the expected 77 if you discount the mostly useless Magic stat), with his total gross growths being 16 out of the expected 34.1 (or 13 out of the expected 31.9 discounting Magic).
In other words, he was very unlucky. My Oscars always seem to be unlucky though, and therefore usually get benched.
I think this type of list will be even more peak in thracia due to the fatigue system
@@filipower776 unironically, because of how thracia works is anybody truly unbenchable? Ahahahha
Vika for S tier
Oscar is hella overrated imo, I get consistently terrible growths with him on EVERY run