IMPORTANT ROUTER SKILL: Complimentary curves and making positive and negative templates
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- Опубліковано 29 сер 2024
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Thanks James! This is well explained and worth watching a few times to really get my (slow of late) head around. I have a project in mind to thank a good friend. This will be pivotal to it.
James, I just wanted to say thank you for this video! It’s saving my bacon!
I’ve been woodworking for years, but just had a complete mental block on how to do this process of creating perfectly matched positive and negative templates.
It was driving me nuts. I just couldn’t seem to wrap my feeble mind around it. But I knew there was a very good way to do it. So I was very grateful to find your video which spelled it out so clearly.
Thank you sir.
When I stumble across a woodworking problem, I know I can always find the answer in one of your videos. Another mystery answered! Thanks for all you do for the woodworking community.
This is so cool and a awesome idea. Opens up a lot of possibilities. But I have to say I'm really looking forward to seeing the video for curved molding.
James, this video has been the answer to a problem I've been trying to solve for some time. And yes, I have sanded away all of my material several times and still haven't got a match. Thanks for saving my sanity!
A new comment for an old video with a solution for a problem - I have been using this technique lately (thank you!) but ran into problems with a very long piece (5 feet). I had to make three nesting parts. This led to problems with mismatching as even with lots of double stick tape, imperceptible movement of the parts led to curves not matching. In the end it was better to create a second template and to screw the two pieces together to prevent movement, even with 9mm MDF.
This series on router work is so valuable that it would benefit from being remade I think, including - where to obtain larger bearings (not all work) size of bit selection, why the 3/4 inch bearing works (I used 9.5mm and 28.5mm bearings) and the use of template following pins to create the complementary curve on the other side of a piece.
Thank you James for the great video! You never cease to amaze me.
Great video! finally someone explained this in a way I could understand.. thank you. I've got a problem now, I don't find in the market any bearing that I can install in my 1/4" router bit. The inner diameter of the 3/4" bearing is too big and doesn't fit. Can you please share where did you find your 1/4" bit & 3/4" bearing? Thank you
Another useful skill and technique. Can't wait for the cooler fall weather, so i can get back into the workshop.
An absolutely flawless exposition. Thank you!
Super instructions. Thanks Mr. Nubs!
As usual great info from Stumpy. But, he’s not real clear about what bearing to get. He’s using a 3/4” b/c the diameter of the cutter is 3/8. So use a bearing that is 2x the cutting radius. Before you order check the ID of the bearing or you may be disappointed. Bearings are not necessarily interchangeable! ID’s can range from 1/8 - 3/16” depending on the size and brand.
Great information Stumpy! It just reinforces the fact that I have so much to learn... Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for an interesting video.
Your technique requires a single 1/4" router bit but with a 1/4" and a 3/4" pilot bearing. However, your "tool links" were much more generic. What was your specific source for the bit and pilot bearings you used in the demonstration?
At about 2:30 in the video, you make a through cut with the 1/4" flush trim bit. Some woodworkers advocate using a plunge cut at he start and stop of this cut. This approach keeps the two template halves firmly attached and minimizes vibration, especially at the end of the cut. The template halves are then separated with the band saw. This would require that you first drill and start and stop hole to accommodate the piloted bit. An alternate approach would be to use guide bushings.
Great technique! I just used it in a modified way. I used it to make two semi-circular pieces whose radii differed by 1/8 inch. Using a previously-made piece with the smaller radius curve as a template (piece "A"), I cut the next piece "B" with a 3/8" flush trim bit, giving it a 3/8" bigger, complementary, radius than "A". Now using "B" as a template, I cut the final piece "C" with the same bit and a 7/8" bearing attached, reducing "B"s radius by 2/8". The resulting pieces "A" and "C" had radii differening by exactly 1/8". BTW, "Complimentary" should be "Complementary"---a different word! In any case, I compliment your video on making complementary curves. Thanks! 😉
This is exactly what I wanted to figure out a few weeks ago on another project. Great tip. Thank you!
Great tip Stumpy! This will come in handy with upcoming projects. Thanks for sharing
What a great tip as I was planning on using such curves in a project in a couple of weeks. Thanks
Thank for this simple to fallow, step by step walk through, this opens up a lot of ideas now 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Good on you James for sharing your knowledge. Cheers,
Rob.
I'd like to try that but I can't find a bearing for my 1/4" flush trim bit that has an I.D. of 1/8" and an O.D. of 1/2" like you describe in your video. Hope I understood what you meant. Love your videos and knowledge!
Great piece of technique.....thanks Stumpy......this is going to add to my arsenal. Thanks
Great information James, I really like the method! I can see a lot of applications that I can use this method for! Awesome Job!
This is a wonderful tutorial. Thanks so much for sharing your expertise. Its always interesting, and much appreciated!
Lou
That is a cool technique, never seen it before. I may just make something using it to try it out!
I learned this technique from a book called router magic by Bill Hylton. it's a fantastic book and we'll worth a read
Sorry but I think you got the wrong Bill Hylton book. This material is discussed beginning on page 171 of "Woodworking with the Router, Fox Chapel Publishing.
Great video. I solve the comp curve problem by cutting the templates on my laser but will use this technique on projects too large for that. Thank you I hadn't seen this before.
This is the way old-timey woodworkers made their templates. Stumpy is showing a way to do it for those of us who've forgotten how to use lasers and such.
Define what you think the time of old-time means to you.
You're an absolute beast mate!
Cool very cool, this is what makes you tube worth watching, thanks for posting.
Super useful. very simple yet very effective
Awesome ! Really want to see the molding curve !
hello, does anybody know if i used a half inch flush trim diameter bit to cut the first curved piece and then if i put an inch guide bush on the flush trim bit for the final curve could i achieve the same effect if i put the template 1/2 set back instead of a 1/4 inch set back. these are the tools i have to hand and i don`t want to pay for extra router bits if i can avoid it. thanks
brilliant - simply brilliant!
Great tip! Exactly what I was looking for, thanks
very nice! always wondered how to correct 'B' side; now i know! thanks
Wonderful video Mr Stumpy! Thanks! I've put it in my "liked" vids for future referral.
Beautiful explanation! Thank you 😊
That's a nice knife. You already have the flip open too.
Hi James, at 3:38 you mention a 3/4 inch bearing, which covers the distance between A and B, at 4:01 you call it 'that 1/2 inch bearing'. Since the 1/4 bearing on a 1/4 bit gives you a 1:1 copy of the template, shouldn't the bearing for making the template B' be a 3/4 in., too?
Super cool! Thank you very much for sharing.
great and easy to follow tutorial!
Great tutorial.
Thanks
Thanks....I really enjoy your presentations/videos...cheers...rr
Hey thanks that just solved a problem for me. I build acoustic guitars and start by making an exact half-profile of the body shape. By using your technique, I can create the female building mold to hold the guitar sides in position to create the body. QUESTION: for each model I build, I then have to make a bending form, that is about 1/8” smaller than the exact profile to accommodate the thickness of the side, so its outside face fits the female mold. Any Suggestions?? Really appreciate your input..Thanks
Sweet video. I need to make some boxes for poker chips. Like 500-1000 chips in each box. Do you have any videos like that?
Excellent idea and execution. Now I need to explore different sized guides which I didn't know about. I'm a novice with a router.
this is such an awesome video, like most f your stuff! really enjoyed watching it!
something that I've been having trouble with, though, is the same idea as presented in this video, but with "completed shapes" like a circle for example. How do i make templates for routing a lid that is to be set into the circle cavity seemlessly? so more like inside and outside templates rather than positive and negative? any help would be greatly appreciated!
Greetings from Germany 👍
That's an inlay. There are router bit/bushing sets made specifically for that.
dude, you are a genius!!
I couldn't find a 1/4" flush bit and bearing combo that works so I'm using a 1/2" flush trim bit with infinitytools' 3/16" ID 1-1/2" OD bearing.
This was a great suggestion. It worked great for me. Thank you
I mill my own lumber on a woodmizer lt35. Im at a loss right now though. My situation is as follows. I live on a slab and want to make my own hard wood flooring. I need a joint that doesnt require nails or glue, think engineered flooring, click lock.
I have a radial arm saw, a table saw, a shaper cutter, router table, and several other cutting implements. Any ideas on how to make this job work?
Great tip!
Like some others, I have been unable to find a 1/4 flush trim bit that will accommodate a 3/4" bearing. Help.....
this would mean i would need a far better router table than my current junk... and major skill....and something to make using this technique, and time to make it
ugh!!!
That's amazing, thanks for sharing.
Thanks for the great info
What type of material do you use for your templates?
What is the white pen you used to mark #1 on dark wood?
Can u make a storage unit for electronic devices such as iPads, iPhone with charging. Because my house is really untidy without one.
We did: www.stumpynubs.com/electronics-valet.html
Thankyou for the video
my thoughts are to double side tape 2 1/4” profile Templates together and then use a rebate bit with a bearing sized to give me that 1/8” smaller. When making the cut, just remove material on top piece. Am I making sense??
Brilliant as usual James, thank you. My apologies but like others am having a difficulty with the part links from down here in Australia, not sure why but do you have the Whiteside part numbers for the flush trim bit and the oversized bearing available at all please?
Either way, thanks mate, you’re still teaching and I’m still learn and grateful for it. Take care and stay safe mate, 11 out of 10 👍😎
This is a great video. Is there any limit on what angle the slope of the curve can be to get this to work? It seems that the steeper the angle of the curve, the greater the gap would be. Or does this not matter? Thanks, for all your great vids.
As long as you don't have a curve close to a 3/4" diameter, it should be fine. The initial cut is effectively like bandsaw cutting exactly where the bit meets the wood, on a tangent from the radius of the spindle center. The bigger bit increases that radius, but the angles will be the same as the smaller bit, so long as the curve radius is larger than the larger bit's.
Now I have a desire to make something with curved molding. This is genius.
i love you stumpy!
Great info Mr Nubs Just subscribed to your e-mail and You Tube Thanks!!
I am new to this but really like your videos - always helpful. I am assuming that by 1/4 inch flush-trim bit you mean the diameter of the cut. When I click on the link to your suggested spiral router bit it isn't clear which one you are suggesting. (¼” flush-Trim spiral router bit (creates better cuts): @t)
Thx stumpy!!
Hi, I'm curios how to account for the offset between the top and bottom layers that could come from using different router bit diameters?
Pretty cool!!!
Thanks!!!
usefull stuff.Thanks
nice one mate.
Excellent
Sorry Stumpy, just don't understand router bits I guess, I think if you have a 1/8" I.D. bearing then the replacement bearing must be 1/8" also. Is this correct thinking?
Yes, that's correct.
How does the bearing math work if I have a 3/4" router bit instead if 1/4"?
Can you do this with bushings instead of bearings? If so how about an explanation of how and what sizes?
Very cool
I have a half inch bit..what is the math there? How do I find bigger bearings..
Very cleaver!
It's hurting my brain trying to figure out how this works.
Walk through it with some scrap and you will see.
The negative template is too small because I removed 1/4" from it when I cut it away from the positive template. By setting it back 1/4" from the line, I am locating it as it was positioned in relation to that positive template before it was cut away. Now, I have to enlarge it to full size. So I use a bearing that is 1/4" wider (on each side) than the router bit.
Kirby Weldon I agree. It's a little difficult to follow as someone with nearly no experience with a router but seems straightforward enough to try and replicate.
I understand your instructions up to the point where at 4:02 in the video you mention using "that 1/2" bearing". Prior to that you where using a 1/4" flush trim router bit (which I assume has a 1/4" bearing) and then stepping the bearing up to 3/4" with the same bit, no prior mention of using a 1/2" bearing? Was this mention an error or did I miss something?
It was an error. I meant 3/4 bearing.
Nice Thx
Is this the original upload of this because I was really looking for an outlet for my self righteous indignation and I feel like I missed the boat on this one.
On a more serious note, this is a great, clever idea.
genius
Hi,
Had to watch it twice to get it all straight in my mind (I have to know the why’s behind (the theory) to learn permanently. I understand why the kerf on the bandsaw causes a not perfect match, but I’m unsure about ‘why’ of the router with it being a round and rolling cutter, logically at first thought it should cut just the bearing gap exactly - right? - since it mustn’t- or no need for this video, is it because as the router cuts the say inside curve on part “a” the corresponding cut on part”b” is an outside curve and similar to the bandsaw the cut is slightly different ? The tighter the radius of the inside curve the greater the difference in gap of the corresponding outside curve (relatively)? Love your videos, tried to subscribe to your woodworking journal but got an error message. I’ll try again tomorrow; it’s almost midnight here in Australia.
I'm going to have to do the math to fully understand this.
The math is hard to explain without getting a headache. Just try it. It works.
Oh, I believe you! But I'm an engineer, and I'd like to understand *why* it works.
Don't forget to carry the one....
I thought that Neo could levitate ?
The negative template is too small because I removed 1/4" from it when I cut it away from the positive template. By setting it back 1/4" from the line, I am locating it as it was positioned in relation to that positive template before it was cut away. Now, I have to enlarge it to full size. So I use a bearing that is 1/4" wider (on each side) than the router bit.
Complimentary Curves? Free Curves? Are you sure?
Great tip!