I think with modern technology, if you have two equally well manufactured firearms, it'll depend on the shooter till about 1000yds. At that point, there's just no compensating for the flexing/movement of the semi-auto.
If the person running the semi isn't faster across the course something's wrong with the shooter or the gas gun. No matter what distance. Of course if the person who shoots always on a bolt rifle is put on the gas gun there's gonna be trouble and probably inaccuracies due to the longer recoil impulse, more to stabilize.
@@seanoneil277 I think, that in a long distances there is actually not much of an advantage in speed for a gas gun, because you gonna have to wait till bullet flies all the way there and confirm a shot. Than, if needed, make a correction, aim again. Not sure bolt action itself will take a lot of time in this prosess. Also, notice how bolt dude reloads immidietely after the shot and not waiting till the impact in a drag race round
@@Demka03 Yes that's true. But if you know you had a bad shot with semi-auto you can follow up faster. I speak of shot calling here, and thus not waiting for downrange impact. With practice a bolt gun's bolt can be run fast, but not as fast as a gas gun's cycling enables. Unless the gas gun's gas system wasn't optimized, I suppose that could make it slower, or malfunction prone.
But downside, more mechanical complexity & areas of possible problem, and more weight as a result of the complexity, with semi auto. Also as I said above, I've found the semi has to be stabilized for a longer time after trigger press, vs bolt gun. So sloppy fundamentals are tougher on semi auto.
I think this really shows how great that gas gun was. I mean if you had a "hit as many targets as you can in 60 seconds" challenge. I bet that semi auto would win.
Gas gun is a win in my eyes, Built one myself that shoots sub-moa, it would compete with bolt action like that, Professional shooter like MDT I probably couldn't hang with at first I liked seeing a video like this,
@@FFFF-x9i WOW !!!! - .......And there's NO WAY IN HELL, even for that price, will it repeatedly/consistently out shoot a bolt gun that even runs half that money,.....but, it might, almost, ..... closer anyway, if the receiver was a bit heavier & made of steel too,.....but then the price would be double, but a WAY better rifle.
@@Yeoman7you ever reload or use military primers? High end bolt guns that aren’t military focused like an AI or MRAD often get light primer strikes unless you really dial in your ammo correctly or buy high end match ammo.
@TheRoshDawg speak for yourself, dude. I have a savage FCP-K that will set off any primer. There are a lot of bolt guns that won't do hard primers, but that's because they have light striker springs to give them a better trigger feel without giving them an actual better trigger. If you get something better than a Savage Axis, you'll have no problem with hard primers.
@@iamcondescendingagreed on Savage being able to fire anything! Q Fix and Mini Fix though.. as well as MPA (good rifle but unfortunately can’t train reliably with cheap ammo)
The accuracy is in the barrel and ammo, two guns with equal barrels and ammo should have equal accuracy and equal results, every other feature on a rifle is for the benifit of us squishy humans.
disagree, Bullets get more damaged running through a semi auto with double stack mags than a bolt gun and that will affect accuracy. also harmonics, a bolt gun has alot less moving parts that might not return to the exact same position after everyshot. there is a reason an m14 is very difficult to make accurate or keep accurate and boltguns are not hard to make sub minute even on budget hunting guns. AR platforms are very accurate but still not on the same level as a bolt action.
That's true, but a semi will always be faster, the slickest runners of bolts are slower than the gas impingement system's reset. The disadvantage is more moving parts.
@@DefZen343true, my Savage Axis shoots sub MOA with factory ammo and hand loads are easy to tune. My gas gun has been a finicky one with a "good load" during testing but after a match with the same load it shoots 2-3 MOA.
@@StuninRub I'm probably working with less than optimal powders. I only have H322, CFE 223, Win748. I have 55gr fmj, 68gr and 75gr Hornady Match HPBT. Barrel is a Ballistic Advantage 20" Premium series 416R stainless DMR profile, 223 Wylde 1:8 twist. Rifle length gas and a carbine buffer system. I want to upgrade to the A5 buffer system.
That's false though. Most semi-automatic rifles and shotguns are legal, as long as the barrel lenght exceeds 470mm, the overall lenght exceeds 660mm and (if using center-fire munition) have a maximum capacity of 5 rounds in the mag (no restriction on ammo capacity for rimfire). Semi-auto handguns are restricted (not banned), but the requirements for being issued a license are more restrictive and it gets expensive real fast. The most recent gun ban (which I think was fear based, used as a feel-good move without addressing the root causes of our issues and written by people with no real-world experience with firearms) bans "assault-style weapons" (a very nebulous concept), including ARs, mini-rugers, and M-14, as well as firearms capable of discharging a projectile with more than 10,000 joules of muzzle energy and firearms with a bore of 20mm or larger You can find more info here (site of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police) rcmp.ca/en/firearms/what-you-need-know-about-government-canadas-may-1-2020-prohibition-certain-firearms-and#s1 Cheers!
lol, ive seen more bolt guns malfunction than semi autos these days at matches, even on Yt with high end bolt guns i see malfunctions, always feeding issues with the little 10 round mags. main disadvantage with a semi is the gun is moving after the shot and making it more difficult to spot impacts. also the rounds being chambered quickly can damage bullets alot worse than a bolt gun which will make a difference at longer ranges or harder targets, F class guys single feed for that reason. obviously a semi auto has speed and capacity, dont get one if you dont need those advantages. id add reliable magazines too, bolt gun mags suck.
@@spotmyimpactbro semi auto gives you faster follow up shots, its better at close range in case it needs to be used for that and gives you the same precision in a combat environment, often with a lighter weight
Man these boys can shoot. Goes to show nothing replaces solid fundamentals.
Watching buddy run his bolt is insane , so fast , hands down MDT puts out the sickest PRS/ long range content
I think the drag race was handicapped by someone being able to move a little faster lol.
.....but it was even because older/heavier/slower didn't have to work the bolt.....lol
That is true 😂
I think with modern technology, if you have two equally well manufactured firearms, it'll depend on the shooter till about 1000yds. At that point, there's just no compensating for the flexing/movement of the semi-auto.
If the person running the semi isn't faster across the course something's wrong with the shooter or the gas gun. No matter what distance. Of course if the person who shoots always on a bolt rifle is put on the gas gun there's gonna be trouble and probably inaccuracies due to the longer recoil impulse, more to stabilize.
@@seanoneil277 I think, that in a long distances there is actually not much of an advantage in speed for a gas gun, because you gonna have to wait till bullet flies all the way there and confirm a shot. Than, if needed, make a correction, aim again. Not sure bolt action itself will take a lot of time in this prosess. Also, notice how bolt dude reloads immidietely after the shot and not waiting till the impact in a drag race round
@@Demka03 Yes that's true. But if you know you had a bad shot with semi-auto you can follow up faster. I speak of shot calling here, and thus not waiting for downrange impact.
With practice a bolt gun's bolt can be run fast, but not as fast as a gas gun's cycling enables. Unless the gas gun's gas system wasn't optimized, I suppose that could make it slower, or malfunction prone.
@@seanoneil277 yeah, agreed. Also, I guess, after confirming the shot, gas has an advantage if there are more than one shot following up.
But downside, more mechanical complexity & areas of possible problem, and more weight as a result of the complexity, with semi auto.
Also as I said above, I've found the semi has to be stabilized for a longer time after trigger press, vs bolt gun. So sloppy fundamentals are tougher on semi auto.
what caliber is each?
I assume they were both 6.5CM????
@@FHHWHH they didn’t say , :( MDT????
Assuming this is bendy bill's mrgg-s, the gasser is 6.5 Creed so the bolt gun is also presumably 6.5 creed as well
@@uhavedied12334557didn't recoil much for either but still had some distance so I'd also say 6.5 creed
At the start they said 6800 shots sub MOA accuracy, probably 6.5 CM due to short barrel life
Great shooting but I think the bolt gun left a lot on the table on that first round. Probably just warming up.
Both guns are great, and every people has it own liking. As long they keep get things accurate its a great gun
Great job, love this content. Keith Baker - excellent execution of the capabilities of a well tuned gasser. Keep up the good work guys!
This is the only actual video I could find of the MRGG-S, it's not just some ordinary gas gun this is amazing!
On the drag race, how big were the targets in mils? The acquisition speed was incredible.
What a rifle Geissle has there!
What did Bill G say? Sub minute groups out past sixty four hundred rounds? Huh??
Yeah, I had to play that a few times to hear
HORSE was brilliant. Good match!
How is Francis Colon not your bolt gun shooter?
I think this really shows how great that gas gun was. I mean if you had a "hit as many targets as you can in 60 seconds" challenge. I bet that semi auto would win.
I think there are quite a few situation where the gas gun would have a significant advantage.
What we’re the calibers? I’m assuming the geissele was a 6 mm ARC?
It’s an AR10 platform, genius.
@@FFFF-x9i that doesnt tell us the caliber - was it 6mm? 6.5 Creed? 308? other?
@@ScottPriestley It could have even been a .260 rem as Geissele did an AR10 in that at one point.
@@FFFF-x9idon’t be a douche, asking a question isn’t a bad thing. Other people were asking the same thing.
@@ScottPriestley let me know when you find an AR 10 that’s chambered in 6mm ARC
Get both!!!
was the gas gun a 6mm ARC?
6.5 creedmore
@@johnkleinfelter8346 Oh nice, thank you
Cost run down for each rifle/optic etc?
Send us an email at support@mdttac.com and we would be happy to get some additional info for you.
What caliber were the rifles
The bolt gun was 6 Dasher, and the gas gun was 6.5 Creedmoor
Guys who run Dashers like other guys. Just sayin.
@@MDTTAC.....now we know why the gas gun did aswell as it did.....it was windy they said......says it all.
Thank you !!@@MDTTAC
@@TheFdgsgf You're welcome!
What I’m seeing is the rifle doesn’t matter if you know how to use it. Being healthy and good physical fitness does.
why didn't they do the same shooter on both? Keith normally does bolt he could have done both
On this one, we wanted to do one MDT team shooter against the other.
Why dial…?
Should have swapped the shooters and the guns to see what was training and what was gun
What type of ammunition in gas gun??
The gas gun was 6.5 Creedmoor
Gas gun is a win in my eyes, Built one myself that shoots sub-moa, it would compete with bolt action like that,
Professional shooter like MDT I probably couldn't hang with at first
I liked seeing a video like this,
Need more gas gun videos
What was more accurate and was was faster?
That awkward hug at the end
What is the cost of each rig?
......your question might be the divider right there
The geissele is $7,000 for the super bendy bill special duty
@@FFFF-x9i WOW !!!! - .......And there's NO WAY IN HELL, even for that price, will it repeatedly/consistently out shoot a bolt gun that even runs half that money,.....but, it might, almost, ..... closer anyway, if the receiver was a bit heavier & made of steel too,.....but then the price would be double, but a WAY better rifle.
The seekins so-10m is 2500 cheaper than the geissele and I’d argue more accurate
In my experience, gas guns tend to be more reliable than bolt guns. Which sounds counter intuitive.
Lol😂
@@Yeoman7you ever reload or use military primers? High end bolt guns that aren’t military focused like an AI or MRAD often get light primer strikes unless you really dial in your ammo correctly or buy high end match ammo.
@@TheRoshDawgwhat. Why are you using military primers at all
@TheRoshDawg speak for yourself, dude. I have a savage FCP-K that will set off any primer.
There are a lot of bolt guns that won't do hard primers, but that's because they have light striker springs to give them a better trigger feel without giving them an actual better trigger. If you get something better than a Savage Axis, you'll have no problem with hard primers.
@@iamcondescendingagreed on Savage being able to fire anything! Q Fix and Mini Fix though.. as well as MPA (good rifle but unfortunately can’t train reliably with cheap ammo)
Gas wins hand's down
The accuracy is in the barrel and ammo, two guns with equal barrels and ammo should have equal accuracy and equal results, every other feature on a rifle is for the benifit of us squishy humans.
disagree, Bullets get more damaged running through a semi auto with double stack mags than a bolt gun and that will affect accuracy. also harmonics, a bolt gun has alot less moving parts that might not return to the exact same position after everyshot. there is a reason an m14 is very difficult to make accurate or keep accurate and boltguns are not hard to make sub minute even on budget hunting guns. AR platforms are very accurate but still not on the same level as a bolt action.
That's true, but a semi will always be faster, the slickest runners of bolts are slower than the gas impingement system's reset. The disadvantage is more moving parts.
@@DefZen343true, my Savage Axis shoots sub MOA with factory ammo and hand loads are easy to tune.
My gas gun has been a finicky one with a "good load" during testing but after a match with the same load it shoots 2-3 MOA.
@@nativewarrior5052If your gas gun is not sub 3/4 moa something is wrong.
@@StuninRub I'm probably working with less than optimal powders. I only have H322, CFE 223, Win748. I have 55gr fmj, 68gr and 75gr Hornady Match HPBT.
Barrel is a Ballistic Advantage 20" Premium series 416R stainless DMR profile, 223 Wylde 1:8 twist. Rifle length gas and a carbine buffer system. I want to upgrade to the A5 buffer system.
the shooter for the gas gun is an order of magnitude better than the bolt gun dude...
Semi auto guns are not legal in canada though.
Move then, if you love freedom well adopt you. 👍🇺🇸
@@Longshot762x51
The WK180C Gen2 is legal in Canada and pretty good, although pricey.
That's false though. Most semi-automatic rifles and shotguns are legal, as long as the barrel lenght exceeds 470mm, the overall lenght exceeds 660mm and (if using center-fire munition) have a maximum capacity of 5 rounds in the mag (no restriction on ammo capacity for rimfire). Semi-auto handguns are restricted (not banned), but the requirements for being issued a license are more restrictive and it gets expensive real fast.
The most recent gun ban (which I think was fear based, used as a feel-good move without addressing the root causes of our issues and written by people with no real-world experience with firearms) bans "assault-style weapons" (a very nebulous concept), including ARs, mini-rugers, and M-14, as well as firearms capable of discharging a projectile with more than 10,000 joules of muzzle energy and firearms with a bore of 20mm or larger
You can find more info here (site of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police)
rcmp.ca/en/firearms/what-you-need-know-about-government-canadas-may-1-2020-prohibition-certain-firearms-and#s1
Cheers!
@Longshot762x51 I am in America. I am just saying none of their viewers in Canada, where MDT is, can buy what they are shooting.
@@Xiox321 nice
So there's no advantage to running a less reliable semi-auto? Who'd a thunk?
There is, thats why most short action "sniper rifles" dont exist in military circles anymore and are getting phased out in law enforcement as well
@@bopbop7637 Not seeing any benefits here lol.
lol, ive seen more bolt guns malfunction than semi autos these days at matches, even on Yt with high end bolt guns i see malfunctions, always feeding issues with the little 10 round mags. main disadvantage with a semi is the gun is moving after the shot and making it more difficult to spot impacts. also the rounds being chambered quickly can damage bullets alot worse than a bolt gun which will make a difference at longer ranges or harder targets, F class guys single feed for that reason. obviously a semi auto has speed and capacity, dont get one if you dont need those advantages. id add reliable magazines too, bolt gun mags suck.
@@spotmyimpactbro semi auto gives you faster follow up shots, its better at close range in case it needs to be used for that and gives you the same precision in a combat environment, often with a lighter weight
On paper? Maybe. If you can run a rifle the semi is always faster. But bench racers will race on the bench.