KISS', from 1978 to 1983, is absolutely fascinating. In a short six year span they released 4 solo albums, a live album, a greatest hit collection, a "disco" labeled album, a pop record, a concept record, and two heavy albums. They went from being on top of the world, to being hated and forgotten, to rising from the ashes after removing their trademark makeup. Not to mention, all the internal drama during that time....substance abuse, member changes, suing their own record company, etc. It's one of the reasons KISS is the most interesting band in rock and roll history
@@mikeadams2351 Hmmm, let's see, making millions of dollars doing something you love, travelling around the world with the possibility of f*cking as many girls as you want, sounds pretty brilliant to me !
"The Elder" is a great album, Kiss has no reason to feel embarrassed about it. Listen to it as if it was a heavy rock version of one of the concepts albums from Alan Parson's Project, and it makes perfect sense. But then again, I have no problem with bands that pushes their own creativity, and occasionally think outside the box. They did both with this album, above and beyond, no matter how high Ezrin were.
I somewhat agree, yes, straight forward hard rock was always the bands strong suit, but the guys in Kiss grew up in the 50s and 60s, they were heavily influenced by Top 40 and Soul music of Motown. I always liked it when they implemented those influences in their songs and albums , also, it becomes boring for artists to do the same thing over and over, they like to try different things from time to time.
That's a good point. And a lot of their music reflected the Old-School rock n roll sound. Also, if I band doesn't change a bit, the audience will get bored, so it's a delicate balance. I think they had become so over exposed, it didn't really matter what they did, it wasn't going to perform.
@ErikDeMann You make a very important point. If a band is going to stay for the long haul, they need to reinvent themselves on some level. If you don't, the audience will be bored. And Beth was an example of them doing something completely different, and it was huge. I think by the time the Elder was in process, they were victims of their own success. They had been over exposed to the point that people were ready to move on. I don't think it mattered what they put out, it wasn't going to succeed the way previous albums had. And although I was never a fan of the album, I have been surprised over the years how many people are. The Elder became a symbol of a bigger problem.
@@audiomover They tried so hard to stay relevant with a handful of mediocre records during that era, because they let themselves be influenced by what was "popular" at the time. Meanwhile, the solution was right there in front of them, in that they needed to go harder, meaner, and faster. It's all in the past now, but Frehley has often stated that he would have stayed in the band, if they had made Creatures instead of the Elder. And when the penny finally dropped on them, the audiences were gone, along with their record company, Casablanca. It didn't help any that the new company, Mercury, wouldn't invest the neccessary fundings in promoting 'Creatures', so that didn't do very well either. Personally, I didn't even know that album were out there, until I coincidentally fell over it at the local record store. Oh, well, despite all the ups and downs, they still managed to stick around for 50 years straight, and had a monumental impact on how stage shows are done by most major performers today, irrespective of musical genre. The list of bands that can say the same about both is exceedingly short. I will remember them for what they were, not so much what they became, since their biographies put an end to any illusions I might have had, about 'The Four Who Are One'..
The COTN Tour, in a packed venue, was the Most ferocious KISS concert I ever attended. And ACE is my favorite, so they had to win me over. I was blown away. Anyone who attended one of those shows will tell you how great it was.
It became a symbol of a really ugly time for them with dwindling audiences and sales. They had been so overexposed they had no where to go but down. I have been surprised over the years just how many people really love the album.
Kiss never toured or play a show for the Elder, they performed 3 songs on Fridays, but that's the closest they got. Knowing the Gene Simmons of today yes, it's funny, but back in 1981 probably truly how he felt, Hollywood was still a few years away too. Animalize is when Gene had his mind on other things, Hollywood and managing and producing other artists. Took until Revenge for Gene to once again be fully focused on Kiss.
To your point, "Runaway" didn't hit theaters until 1984, but by the time the Elder was released, he had already been through a relationship with Cher and Diana Ross, and it really seems his focus was on the Hollywood crowd and pursuing other things. And his focus on KISS kept diminishing from there. I remember hearing Unholy and thinking that Gene was back, lol. Great comment! thank you.
My second favorite era of the band. What REALLY killed this album was KISS UNMASKED. Unmasked and Shandi set The Elder and whatever that followed up for the fall.
It's funny you say that, I remember when Unmasked came out, I couldn't bring myself to buy it. Maybe I was just graduating from KISS and moving on to other bands, but the album cover was a huge turn off to me. I had never thought of KISS as a band for kids, and then I suddenly did when I saw that cover.
@@audiomover I remember either Ace or Peter were saying they were flabbergasted upon seeing parents and grandparents coming to the shows with little kids.
I remember years before having a subscription to "Electric Company" magazine a companion to the kids PBS show and Victor Stabin used to draw cartoons for that. I recognized the artwork on Unmasked right away and was immediately turned off.
True, Elder has to be evaluated in context, and it was at the end of years of experimentation that didn't go over so well. Solo albums were mixed, Dynasty had some disco on it, Unmasked was pop... that was too many albums over too many years and fans drifted away...and that was before Elder. Elder did nothing to draw fans back or new fans in... and all of that really hurt Creatures of the Night. Kiss didn't bounce back until Lick It Up.
It contains Kiss' greatest recording ("A World Without Heroes") and the rest of the album is solid. It is one of the few albums I can listen from start to finish and not get a feeling of redundancy.
Bescause im a huge YES fan... this kiss album is My favorite kiss album.. selling better now than ever. Fans have matured.....Just got the German release... Sounds amazing! ❤every track in a gem.
I remember listening to a radio interview with Gene Simmons on WMMS 101 Cleveland around September or October 78. The one thing that stood out was how he said in the future we would have a giant television screens on each side of the stage so that everybody could see. Mind you back then the largest TV screen was a 54 inch Magnavox projection TV. And 20 years later he was right.
I went and saw them on the creatures of the night tour which was my third time seeing them (I missed the dynasty show because we are on vacation that week) and I do remember how ill attended the arena was. The following year they came back for the Lick It Up tour and used the tank stage again. All in all they still kicked ass!
The Who was using a big screen behind the band actually above the band but behind, and that was 1982. I think they were also used at the US festival in 83.
@@audiomover I really hope you got to see the reunion tour. I actually saw them on ABC's in concert. I remember walking into the living room and asking my dad who the band was with the drummers face painted like a skull. (At the time I didn't realize it was a cat, I automatically assumed it was a skull because of the dark eye sockets). A year or so later while walking in the record aisle I saw the ALIVE album and immediately recognized them. THAT WAS THE BAND I SAW THAT NIGHT!" I would put that record on and beat the piss out of our couch pretending I was Peter Criss. My dad being in a very popular local cover band in the Cleveland area I was exposed to a lot of heavy rock at a young age. I don't know too many first graders that were listening to Billion Dollar Babys when it came out or machine Head by deep purple when most of my friends we're probably stuck listening to the AM radio stations that their parents were listening to. But anyways getting back to the subject. I was lucky enough to see them on the destroyer and Love gun tour. All together I saw them 16 times over the years.And to see them reunionite after all that time was a dream come true."
@@chrisskalski7292 Plus...Ezrin wasn't "ALL IN" with this project. He started it...and started "flaking off" like a typical "coke head". You can almost tell that some of the mixes aren't "done"
Even though it is seen as an embarrassment, a lot of people genuinely like the album. The whole thing was so ugly for them at the time (ie dwindling audiences and sales) that the album became a symbol of that moment in time.
LOL I was a Kiss fan in the 70's and I went to the Love Gun tour @ The LA forum where they recorded Alive II, Most of us older fans jumped ship like me during the solo albums & never bought Dynasty or unmasked, I recall the day I saw Gene Simmons cry during the world without heroes video and broke into laughter, I didnt see the elder on shelves but i did see Killers and I laughed at how lame they looked and Pauls Purple headband and beads necklace LOL but when i flipped the lp over it said Produced by Michael Jackson and at that time i thought it was thee Michael Jackson which made it even more laughable....Kiss became the epitimny of stupid by then, thank god they came back and finally did the reunion, Singer and Thayer once again had me bail again The magic of that awesome dangerous 70s band was gone for good. I did stay interested from Creatures on but mainly just to laugh and once in awhile find something redeemable that was current , at this time i mainly stick with the original Kiss the earlier the better 1973-77 was the best once Peter left they never returned to match what they did on Love Gun or before ever again.
im a huge kiss fan. my fandom started at age 9 in 1984 with animalize.fast forward to 1989-90 my friend in school gave me copy of the elder i had never heard of it before. pre internet kiss was able to bury things they didnt want mentioned. i actually like the elder
I was 10 or 11 ? When I got KISS alive, Destroyer, Love Gun , man I thought they were the BEST !! Then Dynasty came out and I scratched my head……… I did see them in 96 the reunion tour and was LOUD ! 🤘🏼
The 1982 “…ELDER” inspired tour never got past the planning stages. The few appearances they did make were promotional ones only. Only real live examples of the songs off the album were performed on the “Fridays” TV Show.
For the record kiss one did 1 show for Unmask tour in US, and did not tour at all anywhere for the Elder ! and Kiss falling so bad had nothing to do with Eric Carr and latter Vinnie Vincent in Makeup ! it had to do with Dynasty being disco (tho it did go double platium). and No tour in states for Unmask and No tour for elder and bad album sales , By the time of Creatures of the night they had not tour states for 3 yrs and they lost there fans , again it had nothing to do with Eric Carr or Vinnie Vincent being in makeup !
I saw the animalize tour in 1985 ! It snowed that night so it was probably half full the municipal auditorium in Nashville, I remember how loud it was It was so loud I said before my ears are still ringing from that night!!!! They put on a great show I'll tell you that
no Elder tour happened, they tried some stuff in south america but it all fell through... the only live performance of any Elder material was on the ABC late night show "Friday's"... 3 songs: "The Oath", "A World Without Heroes" and "I"...
I bought it when it came out. No KISS album has grown on me more over the years. It features some of their lightest and heaviest songs. Top 10 KISS album for me. I am patiently waiting for "War Of The Gods" the 2nd part of the trilogy.
In retrospect, I bought this album the day it came out and was left scratching my 11 year old head after listening to it. I only liked two or three songs. But nowadays the 52 year old musician in me is actually kind of blown away that they had the balls to try such a rash departure musically. Whether the finished result was a carefully planned work of art or an act of utter desperation doesn’t really matter anymore. I learned to appreciate The Elder a lot more in the last five years.
I remember listening to an interview where Ace talked about the record saying, "I never had a problem with the Elder. I was being really stubborn about it. Paul and Gene basically took control of the group after Peter left. So I was really upset over that. I think the real problem the Elder had? That There was no visual element to it. MTV would have been all over the place if they had waited a few years. We could have videos to promote the record." I know that is not word for word. But it was something like that. I think he said it on Eddie Trunk. Not sure.
Didn’t buy this album till 1989 because I couldn’t find it anywhere!! As I dropped the needle I just remember disbelief that this was Kiss! Seriously they took a chance in 81 and it didn’t work out. Thank goodness they steered it back to middle ground with Killers and Creatures.
The Elder album and the subsequent abandoned Elder tour was a missed opportunity by the band in hindsight. KISS could have made a tour of the lost cities not played on the Dynasty tour, featuring songs from the Solo albums, Dynasty, Unmasked and the Elder. A Canadian, Chris Makepeace from Meatballs and My Bodyguard was already lined-up for an Elder movie. It all would have been a fantastic segwey into the final masked COTN tour a year later. No Elder tour at the time made KISS skip a beat in '82. Simmons comments back then reflected his uncontrollable greed and selfishness which was boiling-over by that time.
The DYNASTY tour ended up a financial mess. Album sales of UNMASKED were dismal. No American tour. THE ELDER was also selling poorly. So NO, a tour at that time would have failed miserably!. They did the CREATURES tour in '82-'83, to celebrate the 10 yr anniversary of the band...and that was a bust.
I recall Kiss being MASSIVE in Australia at the time, it was Kissmania all over again. I was only a kid and almost unaware of their music, but their image and marketing was everywhere!
Kiss has been one of my bands ever since I heard Destroyer at the age of 12 in 1976. KISS Alive was my first album, on 8-track! I’m one of those guys that loved the Elder right out of the gate. And yes, Creatures is one of their very best albums. For me it’s the drum sounds. Eric Carr kills on that album. I saw them twice during the 80s with Bruce Kulick on guitar on the Asylum and Crazy Nights tours and they were really great live since they weren’t doing all the choreography they actually could play and hit all the notes. Asylum is another album that doesn’t get enough love. King of the Mountain is a freakin’ great song and Kulick is the unsung hero of keeping that band together through the tough years.
I saw KISS' second to last show one year today (MSG-NYC), so you're right about their life span. That article made me think. KISS should have taken a long break after the "Dynasty" tour. Let Eric Carr (R.I.P) get adjusted and familiar and then release a hard rock record. The studio tracks from "Killers" (with some heavy new songs by Gene) could have been 1981's "Unmasked". No costumes or makeup either. Followed by 1982's "Creatures" (with new guitarist V.V.) in tow. They could have stayed a hard rock band, regained some of their fans and been right there with Ozzy/Priest/Maiden/AC-DC and VH in 1981/82. Good video!
That's a really interesting thought. I actually really liked the Killers studio tracks. They were definitely suffering from over exposure by the time the Dynasty tour was happening. I remember staying up to watch the 10 o'clock news because they were going to be live from the KISS concert. But somehow, even with the apparent mis steps, they managed to pull off one of the longest careers in rock history.
Why was it ok for bowie to follow and sell out to every trend at the time,?? Stones had miss you, eagles disco strangler, rod stewart with " you think im sexy " and etc etc. Kiss gets crapped on for a lot of stuff that other bands do way worse!
Disco was 'cool' in the early/mid 1970s. It went mainstream and sold out after the Saturday Night Fever soundtrack blew up in 1977. It wasn't that KISS jumped on the disco bandwagon that was lame, it's just that they jumped on it soooo late. By late 1979, even punk (which is totally where KISS should have drawn inspiration from) was falling all over itself to become New Wave. These guys were lost, stylistically, and didn't know where to turn. But, rather than looking towards the future, or inside themselves to release more personal and (probably) mature themes, they did the money grab. THAT'S WHAT TURNED ME OFF.
I actually loved Dynasty. I still like that album. I actually don't mind the disco elements. I loved Lick it Up too. I am a fan of many of the changes they made along the way. What's funny to me is listening to Gene talk about how they are always ahead of everyone else. But other than the very early days, they seem to be copying whatever is popular at the time. I don't mind how they embrace the changes in the world, I actually like a lot of it. It's just funny hearing his attempt to spin it as KISS being ahead of the curve. Great comment! Thank you.
@@audiomoveragain ,i will slightly disagree. Kiss taking off the make up was a bold move. Like when they 4 solo albums. No one ever did that! Not even the beatles. Taking off the trade mark make up was gutsy. Then , they looked like no one else...especially during asylum. Even ozzy had eye liner and a white pearl blouse on ultimate sin!. I think kiss during the metal years were still different than other bands....even motley crue looked like kiss when they came out! A look that kiss was getting rid of!
They should have let The Ace run wild on that record, could have been a classic. Creatures sounded to me like it was missing a lead guitarist, I remember plugging my guitar in and soloing over it. Enjoyed your take on this, spot on.
Back in Nov 15 1980 I was 19 years old and saw kiss at VFL park in Australia - they were absolutely huge at that point in Australia and the unmasked album was just released -Eric carr replaced Peter Criss that concert was the most amazing thing I had ever witnessed - it was sold out within hours 40,000 in attendance
Music From The Elder wasn’t a bad album. If you remove Fanfare and Just A Boy the remainder is very good. You asked about the concert dates mentioned in the article but those all got cancelled. The only performances were on TV.
I have loved The Elder since I heard it new. It was actually supposed to be a soundtrack for a movie that never got made. First KISS show 1983 Creatures of the Night tour with Vinnie.
I don't know if I have heard anything from the Elder, but Kiss rocks , no matter what you think of Gene and Paul, I have seen them twice, with makeup and without, both times I went deaf !!!!! Ha ha, my ears are still ringing 40 years later !
" Frankly the audience was never a consideration" was actually a compliment to us fans. The exonerating statement let us fans know that even though we always wanted the best, this time we didn't get it and that was the point. He was honest and correct. Creatures of the Night couldn't save the band after The Elder. The mystique juggernaut ran its course, Lick it Up proved that when all faces were revealed.
"The mystique juggernaut ran its course" is a great way to put it. Ironically, the band that wouldn't expose their faces was so overexposed the world had grown tired of it. I didn't really care for Creatures, but to your point, I was interested again with Lick it Up and loved it.
I was there in person when they did the Friday’s tv show and had stage passes to meet kiss afterwards on the stage was a dream come true abd still have the blues ticket to the show the pass abd the elder and otter LPs signed by the entire band was magical the Friday’s show and domicile tv show abd studio 54 was the only places to my knowledge they played in the states and ace was a no show at the studio 54 showcase so kids was a three piece band at this time - Anthony
@ yes I can when they flashed thru the audience I was there at the rehearsal and the actual show taping I still have the green fridays back stage pass an extra stand by blue ticket and the elder LP signed on the stage at the end of the night by all 4 members funny how this happened was Me and my brother did not have the stage passes we had the tickets to both of the shows the rehearsal then the actual show so after the last show I told my brother let’s go to the side gate and maybe we can get kiss when they drive out the side gate after the show so to the side entrance we went we was hanging out there for about 30 minutes then a security guard came out to us and asked us hey what are you guys doing hanging out here we said we are waiting to try to meet the rock band KISS when they leave from the show fridays ( it was at ABC studios I believe) so he told us “ guys it’s very dangerous in this area to hang out this late on Friday night he said hold on I will be right back “ so he did come back 10 minutes later and said here put these on and follow me to the building where fridays was filmed once we got to one point he told another guard hey take these guys to building A they have passes for the Fridays show so on we went with the other security guard and we walked into the building and low and behold there was kiss all 4 members standing o. The stage talking and signing autographs for the fans who was left in the building so we ran down to the stage and talked with all 4 KISS members in full make up and costumes for about 45 minutes just going from member to member getting stuff signed and talking with each member it was a magical night but the body guard big John Harte cut everything off and yelled to the band members “LETS GO RIGHT NOW THIS IS OVER “ this is a guy you did not mess with I physically seen him pick up fans by the shirt and throw them out of elevators he did not mess with unruly fans period this is why I was happy he left as head of security for kiss and moved on to do head of security for Iron Maiden in the 80’s it made easy access to KISS after he left I also encountered him with Iron Maiden but that’s a whole other story lol and on this day of Fridays taping we also got kiss manager bill alcoin he was in the restaurant area of the ABC building he signed our stuff he was a very nice man he called us over to his table in the middle of him eating and signed all our LP’s was a magical night and thanks to nick the security guard where ever he is may he blessed for making 2 kids dreams come true -- Anthony
It took them a long time to recover from dynasty, unmasked and music for the elders ☺️ era. Yes creatures helped them recover musically, but that tour was far from successful. Taking off the makeup and adding Vinny and his songwriting boosted them up again for the Lick it up and Animalize tours, but by 87 things were starting to slip again. I saw them in Green Bay on the Hot in the shade tour and trust me, Paul could flick his picks right over the crowd in front of the stage. The 5 thousand seat arena was less than half full. Although to be fair, i loved the stage show and that giant sphinx head with the laser light talking mouth. It was a great concert. It really wasnt till they did unplugged with Ace and Peter, then put the makeup back on for the 96/97 reunion tour that they again reached iconic superstar status. Ps. Love the channel. Really enjoying your content 🤟
The Creatures of the night tour was great, i saw it in Nashville the same night of the Superbowl, in jan of 1983, ace was not there but municipal auditorium was almost sold out It was packed, and Gene singing I love it loud was awesome! Eric cars drum kit was a tank It was so cool and they were super loud They even had Christian people out there protesting the concert and the local Nashville news was there filming it!
I love Music From the Elder. Always have. The line in this article that gets me is Gene saying "the key is to be 2 years ahead ". Meanwhile they were jumping on the prog rock/concept record bandwagon based on the success of what? Pink Floyd's The Wall which was released 2 years prior. Gene was not off in Hollywood, this was his baby. He was invested. Hollywood hadn't really happened yet, outside of a tv show offer he had to turn down because Bill Aucoin and Paul Stanley thought it would be bad for the band.
The Elder is actually a really good album, despite the criticism from it's creators. It wasn't classic "KISS" music (except for the song "I"), but it was a great venture that they explored. They need to lighten up, but big egos don't know how.
There was no touring done in support of The Elder, just some TV performances. Also, I don't think Gene was into acting in 1981, that whole thing was later on. He was fully committed to Kiss for The Elder, Creatures and Lick it Up. But when Animalize was happening in 1984, he was gone.
Saw the Love Gun tour in 77, and it was good fun. I liked the studio side of Alive II, but just like that I was done with them. Alive, and Rock n Roll Over are my favorite Kiss albums. I still listen to side 1 of Alive!
The Elder was a great album. I thought of Star Wars as an inspiration to this album Kiss may have been looking to re invent themselves. Only you A World Without Heroes Mr Blackwell The Oath Are classics
Some albums sell a lot because the album before it was great and people expect more greatness from the follow-up. Some albums fail for a similar reason. MFtE didn’t fail solely on its own merits, it bombed because of the steady stream of garbage solo albums and subpar band albums that came out between 1978 and 1981.
Boy Paul loved that i still love me song because I remember every time i saw them in the 80s the toilet lines were huge when he catarwalled it. I really like them too but facts is facts
In that year, It was tough competition in Rock. Ozzy released Diary Of A Madman, Reo Speedwagon, Loverboy, Def Leppard High and Dry, Rush moving pictures, Van Halen. They were trying to be relevant. Too much fresh new bands. I love Kiss too. Thank God for Creatures Album 🙏
By 1981 the fractures were already deep. Ace and Peter were either out or well on their way out. Geme was chasing Hollywood and sleeping with whatever star would spread their legs. The elder was the worst idea they had( to that point in time) . They jumped the shark with their last album DYNASTY. Disco/ pop fluff. With the honeymoon over , they had to figure out a way to exist. Paul was the consummate sole member that carried the weight of KISS on his back. They found their mojo with lick it up by going back to the rock sound ,lick it and Animalize hit when rock was king again in the 80's then they slumped again. That's when they put the makeup back on and became a legacy act. Those albums with the original line up were their best but once it started falling apart that was the end. They would have been better served to disband after DYNASTY. Let everyone grow up and conquer their demons . Then maybe after 5 or 10 years see if they could pull it all back together . Most of the stuff they put out after the old lineup , was junk. Like the avatar KISS, nobody wants that.
I really want to like The Elder, but I just don’t. The album came out during a very disappointing period of KISS. When Creatures came out, I thought the album was better. At least on the right track, but even then it seemed like they were trying too hard to return to their roots. There was no better band than KISS from 1974-1977 and then again in 1996-97.
That's so true. I remember hearing Creatures and, even as a kid, it felt a bit like they were trying too hard. Maybe I had matured at that point too because, "I Love it Loud" suddenly felt silly to me. For whatever reason, Lick it Up resonated with me in a way Creatures did not.
I like the album, it's not the kind of record that I would always want to hear from Kiss, but I've always thought that it was ok. The idea that it was going to be the soundtrack for some kind of movie or musical was hilarious.
Australia &Unmasked was one of the biggest success tours in there history.🎉 Rightgully so, its a great album, well produced.. naked city being one of genes best. As is war machine & unholy... Those tunes give God of Thunder a run for its money.
At the end of the day, Kiss is an artist & an artists body of work, is a collection of snapshots in time. These snapshots reflect who they are, what they were doing & what was relevant at that time. I appreciate the album, because of its place in my collection. Imagine you are an artist & you draw dogs & everyone loves & buys your dog pictures. But one day you want to show the world you can draw a cat & your cat ends up being a different drawing style than your dog pics & your buying public crucifies you. Stupid idiot. You can’t draw cats. Stick to the dogs dummy. “Well gee, I just wanted to try drawing a cat once” It doesn’t matter why & it really doesn’t matter what circumstances Kiss made the Elder. It’s what we got. We can find the interesting things about it, like you are doing here & we can understand this time & place in their minds & if you listen to it, from that perspective, it becomes more interesting. I’m glad they shared & am pleased it’s in my collection. I wouldn’t want to be without it.
This is a great point. And the reality is, if a band doesn't stretch and grow on some level, they won't stick around. If a band keeps putting the same album out over and over, they will disappear. KISS was smart to change. They were obviously willing to do that as far back as "Beth." But there is definitely some question if a concept album was a good strategy. BUT! the same thing can be said of KISS Meets the Phantom. And even though it's hard to watch, I LOVE the fact that the movie exists. Good or bad, it's all part of the epic KISS story. They are the "snapshots" you reference. Thanks for a great comment!
@@audiomover agree with all you said. I love KISS Meets the Phantom of the Park, no matter how disappointing it was. I'm thankful that they even made a movie at all. Kiss Army Things did a phenomenal job editing/correcting and re-did a lot of the special effects to give that movie a more Star Wars-theme/ Beatles Hard Day's Night feel to it as it was originally intended to be, but kinda fell short when it debuted on TV around Halloween in 1978. Xander does amazing work using Adobe After Effects and other editing software for this movie. I hope he'll be able to complete the entire movie eventually. He's got a few awesome segments and I see a lot of potential in it. I'd even love to see a re-make in theaters and on DVD. I have my Vhs copy and perfer that to the Australian release that had cut scenes and deleted dialog making it difficult to watch. But yes, had Kiss not taken new approaches to their music, and just did everything repetitively every album, then they certainly would have disappeared. Fans at least have variety with Kiss. From the early 70's, 80's lineups, 90's, and to the present day. And I agree with the original comment above too. I see the comparison and the contrast.
If.....IF.....Eric Carr actually played on (Music From) The Ellder....anything else afterwards was someone telling him (Eric) to "dumb down the drumming". I feel the same about Peter Criss' drumming from Destroyer onward.
The Elder Tour? Never happened, those dates were cancelled to my knowledge. Or is Gene already referring to Creatures Tour? Right after releasing the Elder?😂 They had plans to make the Elder movie. I’d like to see that. Can someone use Gene’s short story, demoes like Council of the Elder, some scenes from Phantom in the Park and some videos of this era to create an AI version of Elder movie?
How can Gene be "trying to become a movie star in Hollywood" during the period of the Elder when they were still hiding their identities for another 2 years??? Your timeline is off buddy boy.
There were no tours for Music from The Elder ... only a slew of television appearances. The Creatures of the Night tour should've been huge but the time off wasn't conducive and they were playing to half empty halls
I got The Elder for Christmas '81.. After that, like you, I lost interest somewhat.. I got Lick It Up when it came out. I got it because they'd taken the makeup off and I was curious how they'd sound. But I ended up liking that record and playing it a lot. After that, I bought the next couple of tapes and thought they were okay, but not great. From about 1985 until Revenge came out in 1991, I mainly followed Kiss by buying Kiss-related magazines and watching them on MTV. I really enjoyed the 1991 to 1995 era, though.
Yeah Kiss full of integrity like having Anton Fig playing drums on Dynasty but the band keeping it a secret and making fans believe that Criss played drums on the album
I love Music from the Elder 👍 When I heard it the first Time I was 12 and it never felt strange to me ! It was a normal KISS Album for me everytime ! There are some more worse decisions they made (for me) ! Putting the make-up & costumes down 1983 or replacing Ace & Peter with another Musicians around the millennium ! The Elder was not something new for me (for KISS) maybe a little change or step forward in the 80‘s ! It’s still a lot of KISS on this Album ! The Elder has more depth & is a bit Darker , that’s Great and fits a Band like KISS ! The Pop (Music) they did on Unmasked is more strange to me (for a Band like KISS) !
I actually loved Killers! I had no idea it was even a thing, and I showed up at a record store one day and there it was. Some really cool extra songs in there.
@audiomover Ditto..it was a welcome surprise..My band at the time -Cold Gin- covered Legend Tonight & it became very well received at our gigs..great days..I was fresh outta school playing lead in a hard rock covers band that packed punters into a Bar each weekend, We made good money & life was great while it lasted.
If you’re a kiss fan, you would have read their books. They felt strongly about going a different direction after Dynasty and Unmasked. They wanted their own Tommy. In spite of it all and how bad it was considered? It’s a great album. They tried and they failed. That’s it.😊But that’s why you’re making a video of an old article 40 plus years later.
kiss should do an elder box set with how much easier it is today to record they should throw together 7 songs call it the elder part 2 and kiss could probably charge a pretty penny for it and kiss fans would buy it
I remember first track I heard was "The Oath" while I was in a record store cruising for good stuff and the Oath came out of the speakers.... I only recon it was Kiss because of Paul's voice and my friend said it's Kiss....I was over Pluto of joy and I rushed to the counter and demanded a copy and couldn't wait to come home and listen to it. I was a Kiss fan from 1976 up till now. I think Gene Simmons is a money mungling jackass with the coolest makeup....and no, they are not ahead of their time anymore - only in the beginning. Great video.
got it for christmas '81... loved it from the moment i dropped the needle... adore it to this day.
KISS', from 1978 to 1983, is absolutely fascinating. In a short six year span they released 4 solo albums, a live album, a greatest hit collection, a "disco" labeled album, a pop record, a concept record, and two heavy albums. They went from being on top of the world, to being hated and forgotten, to rising from the ashes after removing their trademark makeup. Not to mention, all the internal drama during that time....substance abuse, member changes, suing their own record company, etc. It's one of the reasons KISS is the most interesting band in rock and roll history
I don't care what people say, it's a brilliant album. One of my favourites from KISS. Every song is killer
brilliant and Kiss in the same sentence? hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha well if it's "not" brilliant, sure.
Underrated and underappreciated, to be sure.
Its a good album but not a good "KISS" album
Gene is that you?
@@mikeadams2351 Hmmm, let's see, making millions of dollars doing something you love, travelling around the world with the possibility of f*cking as many girls as you want, sounds pretty brilliant to me !
"The Elder" is a great album, Kiss has no reason to feel embarrassed about it. Listen to it as if it was a heavy rock version of one of the concepts albums from Alan Parson's Project, and it makes perfect sense. But then again, I have no problem with bands that pushes their own creativity, and occasionally think outside the box. They did both with this album, above and beyond, no matter how high Ezrin were.
I somewhat agree, yes, straight forward hard rock was always the bands strong suit, but the guys in Kiss grew up in the 50s and 60s, they were heavily influenced by Top 40 and Soul music of Motown. I always liked it when they implemented those influences in their songs and albums , also, it becomes boring for artists to do the same thing over and over, they like to try different things from time to time.
That's a good point. And a lot of their music reflected the Old-School rock n roll sound. Also, if I band doesn't change a bit, the audience will get bored, so it's a delicate balance. I think they had become so over exposed, it didn't really matter what they did, it wasn't going to perform.
@ErikDeMann You make a very important point. If a band is going to stay for the long haul, they need to reinvent themselves on some level. If you don't, the audience will be bored. And Beth was an example of them doing something completely different, and it was huge.
I think by the time the Elder was in process, they were victims of their own success. They had been over exposed to the point that people were ready to move on. I don't think it mattered what they put out, it wasn't going to succeed the way previous albums had. And although I was never a fan of the album, I have been surprised over the years how many people are. The Elder became a symbol of a bigger problem.
The Oath is killer. One of KISS’s best tunes.
@@audiomover They tried so hard to stay relevant with a handful of mediocre records during that era, because they let themselves be influenced by what was "popular" at the time. Meanwhile, the solution was right there in front of them, in that they needed to go harder, meaner, and faster.
It's all in the past now, but Frehley has often stated that he would have stayed in the band, if they had made Creatures instead of the Elder. And when the penny finally dropped on them, the audiences were gone, along with their record company, Casablanca. It didn't help any that the new company, Mercury, wouldn't invest the neccessary fundings in promoting 'Creatures', so that didn't do very well either. Personally, I didn't even know that album were out there, until I coincidentally fell over it at the local record store.
Oh, well, despite all the ups and downs, they still managed to stick around for 50 years straight, and had a monumental impact on how stage shows are done by most major performers today, irrespective of musical genre. The list of bands that can say the same about both is exceedingly short.
I will remember them for what they were, not so much what they became, since their biographies put an end to any illusions I might have had, about 'The Four Who Are One'..
Kiss in 83. Creatures tour? Best , loudest tour ever by kiss. Gene looked pissed and on top of his game . They were hungry again
The COTN Tour, in a packed venue, was the Most ferocious KISS concert I ever attended. And ACE is my favorite, so they had to win me over. I was blown away. Anyone who attended one of those shows will tell you how great it was.
I saw COTN but Ace was gone by the time they hit Nashville, but it was awesome to me !! I loved it !
A very good album
Each song is great
Kiss knew it but it didn't sell...so they said it wasn't a real Kiss album
It became a symbol of a really ugly time for them with dwindling audiences and sales. They had been so overexposed they had no where to go but down. I have been surprised over the years just how many people really love the album.
The Elder is brilliant! Kiss went eurometal and scorps/preist/etc went KISS! Loved the elder from the day that I got it! '81!
Kiss never toured or play a show for the Elder, they performed 3 songs on Fridays, but that's the closest they got. Knowing the Gene Simmons of today yes, it's funny, but back in 1981 probably truly how he felt, Hollywood was still a few years away too. Animalize is when Gene had his mind on other things, Hollywood and managing and producing other artists. Took until Revenge for Gene to once again be fully focused on Kiss.
They toured in europe. Kiss by 1981 was huge in south america and europe.
To your point, "Runaway" didn't hit theaters until 1984, but by the time the Elder was released, he had already been through a relationship with Cher and Diana Ross, and it really seems his focus was on the Hollywood crowd and pursuing other things. And his focus on KISS kept diminishing from there.
I remember hearing Unholy and thinking that Gene was back, lol.
Great comment! thank you.
@@mooch514The Europe tour was for Unmasked though. There wasn’t any touring for the Elder.
💯 👍
My second favorite era of the band. What REALLY killed this album was KISS UNMASKED. Unmasked and Shandi set The Elder and whatever that followed up for the fall.
It's funny you say that, I remember when Unmasked came out, I couldn't bring myself to buy it. Maybe I was just graduating from KISS and moving on to other bands, but the album cover was a huge turn off to me. I had never thought of KISS as a band for kids, and then I suddenly did when I saw that cover.
@@audiomover I remember either Ace or Peter were saying they were flabbergasted upon seeing parents and grandparents coming to the shows with little kids.
I remember years before having a subscription to "Electric Company" magazine a companion to the kids PBS show and Victor Stabin used to draw cartoons for that. I recognized the artwork on Unmasked right away and was immediately turned off.
True, Elder has to be evaluated in context, and it was at the end of years of experimentation that didn't go over so well. Solo albums were mixed, Dynasty had some disco on it, Unmasked was pop... that was too many albums over too many years and fans drifted away...and that was before Elder. Elder did nothing to draw fans back or new fans in... and all of that really hurt Creatures of the Night. Kiss didn't bounce back until Lick It Up.
I was one of those twelve-year-old kids who saw their Dynasty Tour at the Forum in Inglewood, CA in 1979.
I was one of those 8-year-olds...7/13/79 in Pontiac, MI.
I was 14 and also at the Forum show Nov. 7, 1979. Almost didn't make but so glad I did!
12 year old me at the Pontiac Silverdome. Cheap Trick opened - what a memory
Me too!! Nov 7 1979
It contains Kiss' greatest recording ("A World Without Heroes") and the rest of the album is solid. It is one of the few albums I can listen from start to finish and not get a feeling of redundancy.
Bescause im a huge YES fan... this kiss album is My favorite kiss album.. selling better now than ever. Fans have matured.....Just got the German release... Sounds amazing! ❤every track in a gem.
I remember listening to a radio interview with Gene Simmons on WMMS 101 Cleveland around September or October 78. The one thing that stood out was how he said in the future we would have a giant television screens on each side of the stage so that everybody could see. Mind you back then the largest TV screen was a 54 inch Magnavox projection TV. And 20 years later he was right.
I went and saw them on the creatures of the night tour which was my third time seeing them (I missed the dynasty show because we are on vacation that week) and I do remember how ill attended the arena was. The following year they came back for the Lick It Up tour and used the tank stage again. All in all they still kicked ass!
The Who was using a big screen behind the band actually above the band but behind, and that was 1982. I think they were also used at the US festival in 83.
I saw them on Lick it Up, that was actually the first time I saw them. I was a young teen, but I loved it.
@@toms4442 I guess you're right but back then everybody didn't have them like today
@@audiomover I really hope you got to see the reunion tour. I actually saw them on ABC's in concert. I remember walking into the living room and asking my dad who the band was with the drummers face painted like a skull. (At the time I didn't realize it was a cat, I automatically assumed it was a skull because of the dark eye sockets). A year or so later while walking in the record aisle I saw the ALIVE album and immediately recognized them. THAT WAS THE BAND I SAW THAT NIGHT!" I would put that record on and beat the piss out of our couch pretending I was Peter Criss. My dad being in a very popular local cover band in the Cleveland area I was exposed to a lot of heavy rock at a young age. I don't know too many first graders that were listening to Billion Dollar Babys when it came out or machine Head by deep purple when most of my friends we're probably stuck listening to the AM radio stations that their parents were listening to. But anyways getting back to the subject. I was lucky enough to see them on the destroyer and Love gun tour. All together I saw them 16 times over the years.And to see them reunionite after all that time was a dream come true."
Ezrin was so coked out of his mind that he thought Kiss could make their version of "The Wall."
Heavy rock's version of "The Wall" is QueensRÿche's "Operation Mindcrime".
@@chrisskalski7292 Plus...Ezrin wasn't "ALL IN" with this project. He started it...and started "flaking off" like a typical "coke head". You can almost tell that some of the mixes aren't "done"
Gene became extremely arrogant. Something that he still is. I stopped caring 20 years ago.
Lol
Enjoyed this
Thank you!
I was listening to this record last night and this morning.
Even though it is seen as an embarrassment, a lot of people genuinely like the album. The whole thing was so ugly for them at the time (ie dwindling audiences and sales) that the album became a symbol of that moment in time.
LOL I was a Kiss fan in the 70's and I went to the Love Gun tour @ The LA forum where they recorded Alive II, Most of us older fans jumped ship like me during the solo albums & never bought Dynasty or unmasked, I recall the day I saw Gene Simmons cry during the world without heroes video and broke into laughter, I didnt see the elder on shelves but i did see Killers and I laughed at how lame they looked and Pauls Purple headband and beads necklace LOL but when i flipped the lp over it said Produced by Michael Jackson and at that time i thought it was thee Michael Jackson which made it even more laughable....Kiss became the epitimny of stupid by then, thank god they came back and finally did the reunion, Singer and Thayer once again had me bail again The magic of that awesome dangerous 70s band was gone for good. I did stay interested from Creatures on but mainly just to laugh and once in awhile find something redeemable that was current , at this time i mainly stick with the original Kiss the earlier the better 1973-77 was the best once Peter left they never returned to match what they did on Love Gun or before ever again.
im a huge kiss fan. my fandom started at age 9 in 1984 with animalize.fast forward to 1989-90 my friend in school gave me copy of the elder i had never heard of it before. pre internet kiss was able to bury things they didnt want mentioned. i actually like the elder
I was 10 or 11 ? When I got KISS alive, Destroyer, Love Gun , man I thought they were the BEST !! Then Dynasty came out and I scratched my head………
I did see them in 96 the reunion tour and was LOUD ! 🤘🏼
Sounds exactly like what happened to me.
Dynasty came out and I said well this sucks on to better bands.
The 1982 “…ELDER” inspired tour never got past the planning stages. The few appearances they did make were promotional ones only. Only real live examples of the songs off the album were performed on the “Fridays” TV Show.
This is great! thanks for uploading I totally agree with you, its funny as hell.
Glad you enjoyed it!
For the record kiss one did 1 show for Unmask tour in US, and did not tour at all anywhere for the Elder ! and Kiss falling so bad had nothing to do with Eric Carr and latter Vinnie Vincent in Makeup ! it had to do with Dynasty being disco (tho it did go double platium). and No tour in states for Unmask and No tour for elder and bad album sales , By the time of Creatures of the night they had not tour states for 3 yrs and they lost there fans , again it had nothing to do with Eric Carr or Vinnie Vincent being in makeup !
What is disco on "Dynasty" besides "I Was Made For Lovin' You"?
I saw the animalize tour in 1985 ! It snowed that night so it was probably half full the municipal auditorium in Nashville, I remember how loud it was It was so loud I said before my ears are still ringing from that night!!!! They put on a great show I'll tell you that
Really enjoying your thoughts in these videos. So far you and I track 100% the same on all this stuff. Good one
no Elder tour happened, they tried some stuff in south america but it all fell through... the only live performance of any Elder material was on the ABC late night show "Friday's"... 3 songs: "The Oath", "A World Without Heroes" and "I"...
I bought it when it came out. No KISS album has grown on me more over the years. It features some of their lightest and heaviest songs. Top 10 KISS album for me. I am patiently waiting for "War Of The Gods" the 2nd part of the trilogy.
In retrospect, I bought this album the day it came out and was left scratching my 11 year old head after listening to it. I only liked two or three songs. But nowadays the 52 year old musician in me is actually kind of blown away that they had the balls to try such a rash departure musically. Whether the finished result was a carefully planned work of art or an act of utter desperation doesn’t really matter anymore.
I learned to appreciate The Elder a lot more in the last five years.
I remember listening to an interview where Ace talked about the record saying, "I never had a problem with the Elder. I was being really stubborn about it. Paul and Gene basically took control of the group after Peter left. So I was really upset over that. I think the real problem the Elder had? That There was no visual element to it. MTV would have been all over the place if they had waited a few years. We could have videos to promote the record." I know that is not word for word. But it was something like that. I think he said it on Eddie Trunk. Not sure.
Didn’t buy this album till 1989 because I couldn’t find it anywhere!! As I dropped the needle I just remember disbelief that this was Kiss! Seriously they took a chance in 81 and it didn’t work out. Thank goodness they steered it back to middle ground with Killers and Creatures.
Bought it in 1981 and still love it.
The Elder album and the subsequent abandoned Elder tour was a missed opportunity by the band in hindsight. KISS could have made a tour of the lost cities not played on the Dynasty tour, featuring songs from the Solo albums, Dynasty, Unmasked and the Elder. A Canadian, Chris Makepeace from Meatballs and My Bodyguard was already lined-up for an Elder movie. It all would have been a fantastic segwey into the final masked COTN tour a year later. No Elder tour at the time made KISS skip a beat in '82. Simmons comments back then reflected his uncontrollable greed and selfishness which was boiling-over by that time.
The DYNASTY tour ended up a financial mess.
Album sales of UNMASKED were dismal. No American tour.
THE ELDER was also selling poorly. So NO, a tour at that time would have failed miserably!.
They did the CREATURES tour in '82-'83, to celebrate the 10 yr anniversary of the band...and that was a bust.
I freaking love this album
I recall Kiss being MASSIVE in Australia at the time, it was Kissmania all over again. I was only a kid and almost unaware of their music, but their image and marketing was everywhere!
The Elder is a lot better than their last 2 garbage albums
Kiss has been one of my bands ever since I heard Destroyer at the age of 12 in 1976. KISS Alive was my first album, on 8-track! I’m one of those guys that loved the Elder right out of the gate. And yes, Creatures is one of their very best albums. For me it’s the drum sounds. Eric Carr kills on that album. I saw them twice during the 80s with Bruce Kulick on guitar on the Asylum and Crazy Nights tours and they were really great live since they weren’t doing all the choreography they actually could play and hit all the notes. Asylum is another album that doesn’t get enough love. King of the Mountain is a freakin’ great song and Kulick is the unsung hero of keeping that band together through the tough years.
I saw KISS' second to last show one year today (MSG-NYC), so you're right about their life span. That article made me think. KISS should have taken a long break after the "Dynasty" tour. Let Eric Carr (R.I.P) get adjusted and familiar and then release a hard rock record. The studio tracks from "Killers" (with some heavy new songs by Gene) could have been 1981's "Unmasked". No costumes or makeup either. Followed by 1982's "Creatures" (with new guitarist V.V.) in tow. They could have stayed a hard rock band, regained some of their fans and been right there with Ozzy/Priest/Maiden/AC-DC and VH in 1981/82. Good video!
That's a really interesting thought. I actually really liked the Killers studio tracks. They were definitely suffering from over exposure by the time the Dynasty tour was happening. I remember staying up to watch the 10 o'clock news because they were going to be live from the KISS concert. But somehow, even with the apparent mis steps, they managed to pull off one of the longest careers in rock history.
He described 100% how I felt about everything back then.
I would love to argue some points live on your podcast. Kiss fan to another
Why was it ok for bowie to follow and sell out to every trend at the time,?? Stones had miss you, eagles disco strangler, rod stewart with " you think im sexy " and etc etc. Kiss gets crapped on for a lot of stuff that other bands do way worse!
I really like Disco Strangler, The Long Run is a really good record.
Disco was 'cool' in the early/mid 1970s. It went mainstream and sold out after the Saturday Night Fever soundtrack blew up in 1977. It wasn't that KISS jumped on the disco bandwagon that was lame, it's just that they jumped on it soooo late. By late 1979, even punk (which is totally where KISS should have drawn inspiration from) was falling all over itself to become New Wave. These guys were lost, stylistically, and didn't know where to turn.
But, rather than looking towards the future, or inside themselves to release more personal and (probably) mature themes, they did the money grab. THAT'S WHAT TURNED ME OFF.
I actually loved Dynasty. I still like that album. I actually don't mind the disco elements. I loved Lick it Up too. I am a fan of many of the changes they made along the way. What's funny to me is listening to Gene talk about how they are always ahead of everyone else. But other than the very early days, they seem to be copying whatever is popular at the time. I don't mind how they embrace the changes in the world, I actually like a lot of it. It's just funny hearing his attempt to spin it as KISS being ahead of the curve.
Great comment! Thank you.
@@audiomoveragain ,i will slightly disagree.
Kiss taking off the make up was a bold move. Like when they 4 solo albums. No one ever did that! Not even the beatles. Taking off the trade mark make up was gutsy. Then , they looked like no one else...especially during asylum.
Even ozzy had eye liner and a white pearl blouse on ultimate sin!.
I think kiss during the metal years were still different than other bands....even motley crue looked like kiss when they came out! A look that kiss was getting rid of!
They should have let The Ace run wild on that record, could have been a classic. Creatures sounded to me like it was missing a lead guitarist, I remember plugging my guitar in and soloing over it. Enjoyed your take on this, spot on.
Thank you!
Back in Nov 15 1980 I was 19 years old and saw kiss at VFL park in Australia - they were absolutely huge at that point in Australia and the unmasked album was just released -Eric carr replaced Peter Criss that concert was the most amazing thing I had ever witnessed - it was sold out within hours 40,000 in attendance
KISS wasn't very good after Love Gun because they weren't KISS anymore...
Music From The Elder wasn’t a bad album. If you remove Fanfare and Just A Boy the remainder is very good. You asked about the concert dates mentioned in the article but those all got cancelled. The only performances were on TV.
Just a Boy is great! :) Not a fan of Oddesy
I have loved The Elder since I heard it new. It was actually supposed to be a soundtrack for a movie that never got made. First KISS show 1983 Creatures of the Night tour with Vinnie.
Alice Cooper was THE FIRST to break out / through to let fans / general public know that there is a "business" in "show business".
I don't know if I have heard anything from the Elder, but Kiss rocks , no matter what you think of Gene and Paul, I have seen them twice, with makeup and without, both times I went deaf !!!!! Ha ha, my ears are still ringing 40 years later !
" Frankly the audience was never a consideration" was actually a compliment to us fans. The exonerating statement let us fans know that even though we always wanted the best, this time we didn't get it and that was the point. He was honest and correct. Creatures of the Night couldn't save the band after The Elder. The mystique juggernaut ran its course, Lick it Up proved that when all faces were revealed.
"The mystique juggernaut ran its course" is a great way to put it. Ironically, the band that wouldn't expose their faces was so overexposed the world had grown tired of it. I didn't really care for Creatures, but to your point, I was interested again with Lick it Up and loved it.
I was there in person when they did the Friday’s tv show and had stage passes to meet kiss afterwards on the stage was a dream come true abd still have the blues ticket to the show the pass abd the elder and otter LPs signed by the entire band was magical the Friday’s show and domicile tv show abd studio 54 was the only places to my knowledge they played in the states and ace was a no show at the studio 54 showcase so kids was a three piece band at this time - Anthony
Can you see yourself in the crowd?
@ yes I can when they flashed thru the audience I was there at the rehearsal and the actual show taping I still have the green fridays back stage pass an extra stand by blue ticket and the elder LP signed on the stage at the end of the night by all 4 members funny how this happened was Me and my brother did not have the stage passes we had the tickets to both of the shows the rehearsal then the actual show so after the last show I told my brother let’s go to the side gate and maybe we can get kiss when they drive out the side gate after the show so to the side entrance we went we was hanging out there for about 30 minutes then a security guard came out to us and asked us hey what are you guys doing hanging out here we said we are waiting to try to meet the rock band KISS when they leave from the show fridays ( it was at ABC studios I believe) so he told us “ guys it’s very dangerous in this area to hang out this late on Friday night he said hold on I will be right back “ so he did come back 10 minutes later and said here put these on and follow me to the building where fridays was filmed once we got to one point he told another guard hey take these guys to building A they have passes for the Fridays show so on we went with the other security guard and we walked into the building and low and behold there was kiss all 4 members standing o. The stage talking and signing autographs for the fans who was left in the building so we ran down to the stage and talked with all 4 KISS members in full make up and costumes for about 45 minutes just going from member to member getting stuff signed and talking with each member it was a magical night but the body guard big John Harte cut everything off and yelled to the band members “LETS GO RIGHT NOW THIS IS OVER “ this is a guy you did not mess with I physically seen him pick up fans by the shirt and throw them out of elevators he did not mess with unruly fans period this is why I was happy he left as head of security for kiss and moved on to do head of security for Iron Maiden in the 80’s it made easy access to KISS after he left I also encountered him with Iron Maiden but that’s a whole other story lol and on this day of Fridays taping we also got kiss manager bill alcoin he was in the restaurant area of the ABC building he signed our stuff he was a very nice man he called us over to his table in the middle of him eating and signed all our LP’s was a magical night and thanks to nick the security guard where ever he is may he blessed for making 2 kids dreams come true -- Anthony
It took them a long time to recover from dynasty, unmasked and music for the elders ☺️ era. Yes creatures helped them recover musically, but that tour was far from successful. Taking off the makeup and adding Vinny and his songwriting boosted them up again for the Lick it up and Animalize tours, but by 87 things were starting to slip again. I saw them in Green Bay on the Hot in the shade tour and trust me, Paul could flick his picks right over the crowd in front of the stage. The 5 thousand seat arena was less than half full. Although to be fair, i loved the stage show and that giant sphinx head with the laser light talking mouth. It was a great concert. It really wasnt till they did unplugged with Ace and Peter, then put the makeup back on for the 96/97 reunion tour that they again reached iconic superstar status. Ps. Love the channel. Really enjoying your content 🤟
Great comment! Thank you.
@audiomover thank you brother 🫶
Gene would later admit that KISS wasn’t The Who and Songs from the Elder was no Tommy.
@@BornOnTheMatterhorn it's a million times better than anything the who ever did
Great album.
The Australian tour was pandemonium. I still remember the iron on Kiss transfer for a tshirt in the leading Melbourne paper.
The Creatures of the night tour was great, i saw it in Nashville the same night of the Superbowl, in jan of 1983, ace was not there but municipal auditorium was almost sold out It was packed, and Gene singing I love it loud was awesome! Eric cars drum kit was a tank It was so cool and they were super loud They even had Christian people out there protesting the concert and the local Nashville news was there filming it!
I love Music From the Elder. Always have. The line in this article that gets me is Gene saying "the key is to be 2 years ahead ". Meanwhile they were jumping on the prog rock/concept record bandwagon based on the success of what? Pink Floyd's The Wall which was released 2 years prior. Gene was not off in Hollywood, this was his baby. He was invested. Hollywood hadn't really happened yet, outside of a tv show offer he had to turn down because Bill Aucoin and Paul Stanley thought it would be bad for the band.
I’m 23 and love this album is underrated and disrespected
Kiss is terrible , but this channel is great 👍. Enjoy your format sir . Just subscribed
Much appreciated!
I remember Geno saying "don't look for meaning where there is none"
The 4 songs on killers are okay, well 2 of them
Thanks
The Elder is actually a really good album, despite the criticism from it's creators. It wasn't classic "KISS" music (except for the song "I"), but it was a great venture that they explored. They need to lighten up, but big egos don't know how.
There was no touring done in support of The Elder, just some TV performances. Also, I don't think Gene was into acting in 1981, that whole thing was later on. He was fully committed to Kiss for The Elder, Creatures and Lick it Up. But when Animalize was happening in 1984, he was gone.
Saw the Love Gun tour in 77, and it was good fun. I liked the studio side of Alive II, but just like that I was done with them. Alive, and Rock n Roll Over are my favorite Kiss albums. I still listen to side 1 of Alive!
Both Paul and Gene have said the Elder is not their best work. Destroyer is their best effort!
The Elder was a great album.
I thought of Star Wars as an inspiration to this album
Kiss may have been looking to re invent themselves.
Only you
A World Without Heroes
Mr Blackwell
The Oath
Are classics
Destroyer, The Elder and Creatures keep swapping places at the top of "My Favourite KISS Album" list
Some albums sell a lot because the album before it was great and people expect more greatness from the follow-up. Some albums fail for a similar reason. MFtE didn’t fail solely on its own merits, it bombed because of the steady stream of garbage solo albums and subpar band albums that came out between 1978 and 1981.
Boy Paul loved that i still love me song because I remember every time i saw them in the 80s the toilet lines were huge when he catarwalled it. I really like them too but facts is facts
In that year, It was tough competition in Rock. Ozzy released Diary Of A Madman, Reo Speedwagon, Loverboy, Def Leppard High and Dry, Rush moving pictures, Van Halen. They were trying to be relevant. Too much fresh new bands. I love Kiss too. Thank God for Creatures Album 🙏
By 1981 the fractures were already deep. Ace and Peter were either out or well on their way out. Geme was chasing Hollywood and sleeping with whatever star would spread their legs. The elder was the worst idea they had( to that point in time) . They jumped the shark with their last album DYNASTY. Disco/ pop fluff. With the honeymoon over , they had to figure out a way to exist. Paul was the consummate sole member that carried the weight of KISS on his back. They found their mojo with lick it up by going back to the rock sound ,lick it and Animalize hit when rock was king again in the 80's then they slumped again. That's when they put the makeup back on and became a legacy act. Those albums with the original line up were their best but once it started falling apart that was the end. They would have been better served to disband after DYNASTY. Let everyone grow up and conquer their demons . Then maybe after 5 or 10 years see if they could pull it all back together . Most of the stuff they put out after the old lineup , was junk. Like the avatar KISS, nobody wants that.
Good album. It is weak for a band to consistently trash their own product. I have always liked the album.
I really want to like The Elder, but I just don’t. The album came out during a very disappointing period of KISS. When Creatures came out, I thought the album was better. At least on the right track, but even then it seemed like they were trying too hard to return to their roots. There was no better band than KISS from 1974-1977 and then again in 1996-97.
That's so true. I remember hearing Creatures and, even as a kid, it felt a bit like they were trying too hard. Maybe I had matured at that point too because, "I Love it Loud" suddenly felt silly to me. For whatever reason, Lick it Up resonated with me in a way Creatures did not.
I like the album, it's not the kind of record that I would always want to hear from Kiss, but I've always thought that it was ok. The idea that it was going to be the soundtrack for some kind of movie or musical was hilarious.
Just rock n roll all night and party everyday!
I remember the 1980 unmasked tour in Australia 🇦🇺 & KISS promising to Come back 12 months later……… In “81 …….. ……
MAGA !Elder! So Great!
great album indeed. /Ronnie dio fan
Australia &Unmasked was one of the biggest success tours in there history.🎉 Rightgully so, its a great album, well produced.. naked city being one of genes best. As is war machine & unholy... Those tunes give God of Thunder a run for its money.
Hmmmmm kiss doing a concept album or King Diamond who gene tried to sue or threaten?? King Diamond please 😂😂 🤟🤟🤟🤟
At the end of the day, Kiss is an artist & an artists body of work, is a collection of snapshots in time.
These snapshots reflect who they are, what they were doing & what was relevant at that time.
I appreciate the album, because of its place in my collection.
Imagine you are an artist & you draw dogs & everyone loves & buys your dog pictures.
But one day you want to show the world you can draw a cat & your cat ends up being a different drawing style than your dog pics & your buying public crucifies you.
Stupid idiot. You can’t draw cats. Stick to the dogs dummy. “Well gee, I just wanted to try drawing a cat once”
It doesn’t matter why & it really doesn’t matter what circumstances Kiss made the Elder. It’s what we got.
We can find the interesting things about it, like you are doing here & we can understand this time & place in their minds & if you listen to it, from that perspective, it becomes more interesting.
I’m glad they shared & am pleased it’s in my collection.
I wouldn’t want to be without it.
This is a great point. And the reality is, if a band doesn't stretch and grow on some level, they won't stick around. If a band keeps putting the same album out over and over, they will disappear. KISS was smart to change. They were obviously willing to do that as far back as "Beth." But there is definitely some question if a concept album was a good strategy. BUT! the same thing can be said of KISS Meets the Phantom. And even though it's hard to watch, I LOVE the fact that the movie exists. Good or bad, it's all part of the epic KISS story. They are the "snapshots" you reference.
Thanks for a great comment!
@@audiomover agree with all you said. I love KISS Meets the Phantom of the Park, no matter how disappointing it was. I'm thankful that they even made a movie at all. Kiss Army Things did a phenomenal job editing/correcting and re-did a lot of the special effects to give that movie a more Star Wars-theme/ Beatles Hard Day's Night feel to it as it was originally intended to be, but kinda fell short when it debuted on TV around Halloween in 1978.
Xander does amazing work using Adobe After Effects and other editing software for this movie. I hope he'll be able to complete the entire movie eventually. He's got a few awesome segments and I see a lot of potential in it. I'd even love to see a re-make in theaters and on DVD. I have my Vhs copy and perfer that to the Australian release that had cut scenes and deleted dialog making it difficult to watch. But yes, had Kiss not taken new approaches to their music, and just did everything repetitively every album, then they certainly would have disappeared. Fans at least have variety with Kiss. From the early 70's, 80's lineups, 90's, and to the present day. And I agree with the original comment above too. I see the comparison and the contrast.
If.....IF.....Eric Carr actually played on (Music From) The Ellder....anything else afterwards was someone telling him (Eric) to "dumb down the drumming". I feel the same about Peter Criss' drumming from Destroyer onward.
I admit i hated it when i first heard it but now i think it's a total banger.
The Elder Tour? Never happened, those dates were cancelled to my knowledge. Or is Gene already referring to Creatures Tour? Right after releasing the Elder?😂 They had plans to make the Elder movie. I’d like to see that. Can someone use Gene’s short story, demoes like Council of the Elder, some scenes from Phantom in the Park and some videos of this era to create an AI version of Elder movie?
How can Gene be "trying to become a movie star in Hollywood" during the period of the Elder when they were still hiding their identities for another 2 years??? Your timeline is off buddy boy.
There were no tours for Music from The Elder ... only a slew of television appearances. The Creatures of the Night tour should've been huge but the time off wasn't conducive and they were playing to half empty halls
I feel like Gene was trying to convince people that the album was at number 5 or 6.
Yeah Gene that's why ACDC,Judas Priest,REO Speedwagon,etc
sold bajiliions of albums in 1980/81
I got The Elder for Christmas '81.. After that, like you, I lost interest somewhat.. I got Lick It Up when it came out. I got it because they'd taken the makeup off and I was curious how they'd sound. But I ended up liking that record and playing it a lot. After that, I bought the next couple of tapes and thought they were okay, but not great. From about 1985 until Revenge came out in 1991, I mainly followed Kiss by buying Kiss-related magazines and watching them on MTV. I really enjoyed the 1991 to 1995 era, though.
Itvshould have been a double album combined with creatures. All the songs blended together.
Under The Rose🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘
as a young rocker i always liked kiss for their theatrics more so than their actual music
Yeah Kiss full of integrity like having Anton Fig playing drums on Dynasty but the band keeping it a secret and making fans believe that Criss played drums on the album
To me is the best album of kiss
I love Music from the Elder 👍
When I heard it the first Time I was 12 and it never felt strange to me ! It was a normal KISS Album for me everytime !
There are some more worse decisions they made (for me) !
Putting the make-up & costumes down 1983 or replacing Ace & Peter with another Musicians around the millennium !
The Elder was not something new for me (for KISS) maybe a little change or step forward in the 80‘s ! It’s still a lot of KISS on this Album ! The Elder has more depth & is a bit Darker , that’s Great and fits a Band like KISS ! The Pop (Music) they did on Unmasked is more strange to me (for a Band like KISS) !
All bands have had replacements
There was another reasonable Kiss release between Elder & Creatures that always gets forgotten..kinda pulled a few fans back in..Killers
I actually loved Killers! I had no idea it was even a thing, and I showed up at a record store one day and there it was. Some really cool extra songs in there.
@audiomover Ditto..it was a welcome surprise..My band at the time -Cold Gin- covered Legend Tonight & it became very well received at our gigs..great days..I was fresh outta school playing lead in a hard rock covers band that packed punters into a Bar each weekend, We made good money & life was great while it lasted.
If you’re a kiss fan, you would have read their books. They felt strongly about going a different direction after Dynasty and Unmasked. They wanted their own Tommy. In spite of it all and how bad it was considered? It’s a great album. They tried and they failed. That’s it.😊But that’s why you’re making a video of an old article 40 plus years later.
kiss should do an elder box set with how much easier it is today to record they should throw together 7 songs call it the elder part 2 and kiss could probably charge a pretty penny for it and kiss fans would buy it
I'm still patiently waiting for "War Of The Gods"
Kiss didn't tour the Elder
The Elder was the last album this teenage KI$$ fan bought. It was such a disappointment, especially after Unmasked.
The Elder like a Opera Kiss, not a Classic but, its modern sound for the time
How can something be almost funny and hilarious at the same time?
Good point.
@audiomover
Lol
Not bad. Beats the Disco crap
I remember first track I heard was "The Oath" while I was in a record store cruising for good stuff and the Oath came out of the speakers.... I only recon it was Kiss because of Paul's voice and my friend said it's Kiss....I was over Pluto of joy and I rushed to the counter and demanded a copy and couldn't wait to come home and listen to it. I was a Kiss fan from 1976 up till now. I think Gene Simmons is a money mungling jackass with the coolest makeup....and no, they are not ahead of their time anymore - only in the beginning. Great video.
Thank you!
@@audiomover 🤘🏼😝🤘🏼