I flush hot water after 15 minutes to help it to speed up pre-heat time in 20 minutes (in Hong Kong).The thermometer showing 88.5c and 94.c before and after. Then wait for 5 minutes, the temperature is stable and high enough.
Nice one Michael! On the temp- I’ve found the probe to be best for measuring the passing water, and it reads lower when the machine is at idle due to reading the ‘ambient temp’ of the group at that point before water passing, as heated by the thermosyphon loop. If you imagine, it’s just measuring the heat of the brass. You probably notice the temp spike at the start of the shot due to hot water from the HX entering - often if stagnant in the HX for some time, it’s over target so the flush will rid this plus helping to lift the ambient temp of the group to meet it. In my experience, something like a 91 or 92 idle may see a peak of 98 on flush of water settling to maybe 94 after 8 seconds of flush, and following this, pulling the shot fairly immediately will see quite a stable around the 94 for the shot. That’s been my experience with the E61. The 400 is a great little machine!
Great comments. This unit does have PID control of the boiler so that part of the temp is controlled. I have definitely never seen anything near 98 degrees at the group head but clearly the thermal mass of the group head resists any quick temperature changes. I wonder how fast the flow of water inside the head is during thermosyphoning. In the end I have concluded that the group head temp prevents wide enough brew water that I am able to taste. Maybe if I left it on all day when the weather is hot it may overheat enough to taste but I rarely leave it on more than a few hours. Note that the water flow rate is small when pulling a shot so the thermal mass of the head will prevent large temperature changes. When flushing the flow is much faster and temp displayed changes much more.
This is a great summary and very helpful, thanks. I’ve been looking at HX machines as I anticipate in the coming years that my wife and two teenaged daughters will require a machine that can handle a high volume in a morning. The heat up time doesn’t really bother me as I’d use the smart plug in the morning and on weekends just leave it on most of the day. I’ve been looking at this, the ECM version and the Mechanika Max. The decision may come down to whether we realistically will plumb the machine to waterline at some point, in which case I’d choose the Max. I’m not so concerned about degree level PID control as the e61, as you’ve demonstrated, is as impacted by the thermal mass of the whole machine as the temperature in the boiler. I had a Breville previously and I never fussed over brew temperature with it. You get to know a machine and what works for you. Cheers!
Yup- It's a long time and I'm not happy with the inefficiency of this, but it makes good coffee. No comparison with something like a Breville Bambino on both aspects - energy and coffee quality!
I have a smart plug on my with a schedule set. It's no problem, when I wake up the machine is hot and the cups in top are warm too. I make 2 lattes in less than 5 mins every morning. It's a great machine, far superior than any breville
I have one as well as find that it heats up perfectly in about 25 minutes. Maybe it depends on where you live and temperature of the home/humidity levels. If I turn it on a second time, it heats up even faster.
Awesome presentation with fantastic timing. Pulling the trigger just now and finally going for it rather than vbm junior hx or mara x. Not sure that I believe in fussing with FC mod though...I guess, I'll stick with the basic features for the first couple of years) Cheers!
That's a tough one. I have heard the MaraX is not as good build quality as the Profitec, but I haven't seen one in person to compare. I would think adding a temperature indicator to a Profitec would make it the better choice because you don't start using it until the temp is right. The cold touch steam wand and water outlet on the Profitec are very nice to use. There is not a single thing about the build of the Profitec that I don't like except that a water level indicator would have been helpful instead of just stopping when it gets low.
I flush hot water after 15 minutes to help it to speed up pre-heat time in 20 minutes (in Hong Kong).The thermometer showing 88.5c and 94.c before and after. Then wait for 5 minutes, the temperature is stable and high enough.
This video was so fantastic. Comprehensive, genuine, thank you!
Great video. I absolutely love my Profitec 400!
Nice one Michael! On the temp- I’ve found the probe to be best for measuring the passing water, and it reads lower when the machine is at idle due to reading the ‘ambient temp’ of the group at that point before water passing, as heated by the thermosyphon loop. If you imagine, it’s just measuring the heat of the brass. You probably notice the temp spike at the start of the shot due to hot water from the HX entering - often if stagnant in the HX for some time, it’s over target so the flush will rid this plus helping to lift the ambient temp of the group to meet it. In my experience, something like a 91 or 92 idle may see a peak of 98 on flush of water settling to maybe 94 after 8 seconds of flush, and following this, pulling the shot fairly immediately will see quite a stable around the 94 for the shot. That’s been my experience with the E61. The 400 is a great little machine!
Great comments. This unit does have PID control of the boiler so that part of the temp is controlled. I have definitely never seen anything near 98 degrees at the group head but clearly the thermal mass of the group head resists any quick temperature changes. I wonder how fast the flow of water inside the head is during thermosyphoning. In the end I have concluded that the group head temp prevents wide enough brew water that I am able to taste. Maybe if I left it on all day when the weather is hot it may overheat enough to taste but I rarely leave it on more than a few hours. Note that the water flow rate is small when pulling a shot so the thermal mass of the head will prevent large temperature changes. When flushing the flow is much faster and temp displayed changes much more.
This is a great summary and very helpful, thanks. I’ve been looking at HX machines as I anticipate in the coming years that my wife and two teenaged daughters will require a machine that can handle a high volume in a morning. The heat up time doesn’t really bother me as I’d use the smart plug in the morning and on weekends just leave it on most of the day.
I’ve been looking at this, the ECM version and the Mechanika Max. The decision may come down to whether we realistically will plumb the machine to waterline at some point, in which case I’d choose the Max. I’m not so concerned about degree level PID control as the e61, as you’ve demonstrated, is as impacted by the thermal mass of the whole machine as the temperature in the boiler. I had a Breville previously and I never fussed over brew temperature with it. You get to know a machine and what works for you.
Cheers!
Thanks for the honest review Michael. You have convinced me not to buy an e61 machine because of the heat up time.
Yup- It's a long time and I'm not happy with the inefficiency of this, but it makes good coffee. No comparison with something like a Breville Bambino on both aspects - energy and coffee quality!
I have a smart plug on my with a schedule set. It's no problem, when I wake up the machine is hot and the cups in top are warm too. I make 2 lattes in less than 5 mins every morning. It's a great machine, far superior than any breville
I have one as well as find that it heats up perfectly in about 25 minutes. Maybe it depends on where you live and temperature of the home/humidity levels. If I turn it on a second time, it heats up even faster.
25 min heat up warrants an automatic start up schedule option. 😢
This is great Michael
Awesome presentation with fantastic timing.
Pulling the trigger just now and finally going for it rather than vbm junior hx or mara x.
Not sure that I believe in fussing with FC mod though...I guess, I'll stick with the basic features for the first couple of years)
Cheers!
Thanks. The Mara X looks interesting but I'm told it is noticeably lower build quality.
I have had my profitec pro 400 for 2 hours lol I love it!
It's a pleasure to use and to look at!
Any thoughts on this compared to the MaraX? Im between those two machines.
That's a tough one. I have heard the MaraX is not as good build quality as the Profitec, but I haven't seen one in person to compare. I would think adding a temperature indicator to a Profitec would make it the better choice because you don't start using it until the temp is right. The cold touch steam wand and water outlet on the Profitec are very nice to use. There is not a single thing about the build of the Profitec that I don't like except that a water level indicator would have been helpful instead of just stopping when it gets low.