Radial vs. Axial - Are Radial Brakes Really Better? | MC GARAGE
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- Опубліковано 20 сер 2024
- All modern bikes disc brakes, and the really nice ones have radial-mount calipers and master cylinders. Maybe you’re not sure what that means, or how radial brakes are supposed to be better. Well then, get ready to learn something, because we’re going to break it down for you.
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All modern bikes have disc brakes, and the really nice ones have radial-mount calipers and master cylinders. Maybe you’re not sure what that means, or how radial brakes are supposed to be better. Well then, get ready to learn something, because we’re going to break it down for you.
What we’re discussing when we talk about radial or axial brakes is how the calipers are mounted to the fork. Radial calipers are secured via bolts that are parallel with the brake disc, whereas axial brakes are held in place by bolts that are perpendicular to the disc.
So it’s the mounting bolts that determine if brakes are radial or axial. Pretty simple, right? It is, but mounting the brakes radially has some benefits. Radial mounting typically offers better caliper-to-disc alignment, and it’s also a more rigid setup overall. And when it comes to brakes, rigidity is key. Since radial-mount calipers are secured and supported at both ends instead of near one end or midway along the caliper like most axial setups, you get less caliper flex and better pad-to-disc contact under maximum braking.
Now, you’ll notice we said maximum braking. This whole radial-mounting thing started where most new technologies do, at the racetrack. For racers, every little advantage is key. On the street however, whether you have radial- or axial-mount brakes is a lot less important. Mostly, they just look cool and are the latest technology, so that’s what people want.
Okay, so that’s radial and axial calipers, but the same technology applies to master cylinders too. If the master cylinder piston is parallel to the handlebar, it’s a standard axial master. If the setup is perpendicular to the bar, it’s a radial master cylinder. Since pulling the lever on a radial master applies force directly to the piston inside the master instead of through a fulcrum, you get more direct brake feel and feedback. With an axial master cylinder, the force you apply to the lever is redirected about 90 degrees by the lever pivot, and that can rob you of feel when you’re braking at the edge of traction. A master cylinder (of equivalent piston diameter) won’t give you more braking power than an axial master, but it will give you more braking feel.
On top of all that, radial master cylinders are usually just made better. Better materials and design mean more rigidity, and as we pointed out before, more rigidity is always a good thing when it comes to brakes.
When it comes down to it though, brake performance is influenced by lots of factors, and how the calipers or master cylinder are mounted are at the bottom of the list. For the average street rider, the benefits of a radial setup are nil. Even for experienced riders the difference can be subtle. Good brake pads and properly bled brake lines are going to make a much bigger difference, so if your brake system isn’t in good order, give it a tune up before you go buying expensive components. Click the link below for our video outlining hydraulic-brake maintenance.
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I like the presentations balance between state of the art technology and its practical use on the street. A good perspective, so we don't get carried away thinking everyone needs this. Good educational stuff in a minute.
you are such a boss ari, I really like this series!
why don't you call it post mount and IS mount
0:17 "I'm gonna "BRAKE" it down for yah" massive pun intended 😂😂
Thank you Ari for the very concise and informed comparison and sound explanation. This has not been the case over the past decade when it comes to motorcycle journalists, that make such a big deal about small differences that the normal street rider will never feel, but thinks he/she needs because a journalist has overstated that aspect in an article. Finally, some level headed tech talk from someone in your industry. Keep it going!
and to tell the truth, probably 90% of riders can't tell the difference. but when they're told one way is better than the other, well you all of a sudden need radial mounted brakes now. I'm probably one of the world's worst at falling for this. I've never had a bike that I couldn't stop fast enough. even when Honda was still putting rear drums on their nighthawks when just about every other bike was front and rear disc. but I had to upgrade. I still have a very "spirited" riding style, nothing as wreckless as my younger years. I don't do any track riding now, and I know I probably won't notice, but damn it I have to have radial brakes now. lol
And 90% of that 90% can't use them at maximum.
That funky drum beat kicks in and I know some knowledge is about to be dropped
not enough of those mc garage videos!! true gem
MC Garage is seriously one of the top motorcycle channels. Your videos are great and extremely helpful. Thanks!
I learn new stuff every video. It helps talking to the dealer what i actually want.
I'm really enjoying these videos, very interesting and shows things simply. I bought my first bike which was a cheap non runner for a sort of project to learn with, I've passed my tests so it's just getting it up and running. I stripped the bike down to where you can see all the wiring loom and engine etc so I'm learning how everything kind of connects to each other and stuff.
Excellent video. I learned something.
me 2
MC garage is my learning guide.Good job Ari and team .Greetings from Cyprus
Cool, this 50 year old (relatively new biker) has learned something new. Thanks guys!
Moving the caliper lower and farther back away from the axle would increase the inertial moment and lower the CG. On a race bike this could reduce the tendency to headshake and would change the feel it gives at maximum braking, but on the street if you have enough power to lock the wheel with two fingers on the lever....regardless of the design, it's enough.
Did not know master cylinders were radial/axial mounted... huh... we never stop learning... 😉👍
Always like these kind of videos, super clear and easy to get it
Do dry clutch vs. wet clutch.
+Ari Henning your welcome to borrow my ducati =)
ua-cam.com/video/_K50n5eCGQI/v-deo.html
He did the video and gave credit to you!!
I double checked... That's true!
"Rigidity is always a good thing"
Giggity
Agreed, I got a fork brace for my Bandit 1250 and it totally changed the handling characteristics for the better :D
That what she said
@ john hamlet: Aw dang it, I'm two months late to that joke! : )
;)
Giggity giggity
Being less mechanically inclined, these short videos are super helpful. Concise and damn daniel, those arms. #nohomo
I like your reviews as you often explain the outcome of technology on street and on race track
Great 'to the point' video again from you guys. Just so much better watching your vids than some other 'celebrity youtubers' crap.
Usually great videos; however, I thought that the reason for radial versus axial caliper mounting was to accommodate/afford racers with an easier way of using different diameter rotors for varying tracks and conditions. I've read that with the radial setup, all that are needed are different lengths of bolts and/or spacers. With axial calipers, the option of having different rotor diameters becomes much more complex.
With the radial master cylinder, would the pull consistency be really a function of the feel of a linear pull? Likewise, would having an axial pull offer increased initial bite relative to the rest of the travel?
Just asking...
Seriously.
The greatest advantage of radial caliper is in racing where they need to change brake discs according to track conditions, and radial calipers just need some shims/spacers to fit brake discs of different diameters.
that's exactly it, they make little sense on street bikes and as a basic design, are not always better. It just fashion, like petal rotors.
WOW!! I always wanted to know the difference and never saw better explanation then this! And I could understand everything, ceven that my primary language is portuguese! You have a new subccriber, period! Congrats!
The other advantage that radial calipers have is that they're easy to space out for larger discs via simple shims. Go up 20mm in rotor size by using 10mm shims to move the calipers out. Handy for moto gp where they used to change disc sizes for cold weather/rain.
I must be the only one who didn't understand how a brake caliper can be parallel or perpendicular to a disc. Oh well onto another explanation. Nice vid
Nvm this is embarrassing. I got ir
Excellent presentation of your videos.Easy to understand and straight to the heart of the matter.Well done.
Great video, as usual! I think investing on an aftermarket radial master cylinder is for a good cause, but not so much on a radial caliper mount.
You should talk about the advantages of steel brake lines vs rubber ones!
Steel has a plastic liner too. They're all plastic inside, and many braided sheathed lines don't offer any resistance to expansion because it's cosmetic.
Great video Ari, I definitely learnt something today! Thanks for putting in the time and effort to make these.
Sweet pun at 0:17
The rest of the video is also great.
Again I'm learning something new from your channel. U guys are awesome, keep it up!
MC garage gives lots of technical information about motorcycles. Thanks bro. Please add some animations for your videos it will so helpful for learn👍👍👍
The secret to another one of life's deep mysteries has, once again, been revealed. Well done, sir.
Ok - had to watch this twice to get it exactly. Can't wait to stage whisper "check out those radial brakes" at the next gtg lol. 👍🏼
Thanks. I've always wondered what difference it made. I haven't been able to feel any difference myself.
Love it man. Short and sweet and still being able to learn in a quickie
This channel is a MUST for every motorcyclist out there. Best regards from Argentina guys, keep up the good content!
And also... the colors of this R1 are SICK!! The most beautiful I ever seen
Pitty this bike is something like $40.000 dollars here in Brazil... the R1M is close to $53.000
TL;DW -- in one sentence: you get better braking by bolting the caliper in a direction perpendicular both to the caliper pistons and to the braking force.
There you go --- "radial calipers" explained in one sentence. There's only one direction for the bolts to go in order for that to work!
Wow, always wanted to know. Didn't know about the master cylinder.
god the black/red/white colour scheme is so sexy on the r1!
Excellent overview fellas! Let me be the first to congratulate you on 100,000 subscribers it has t happened yet but it's going to ✌🏼️😎♠️♠️♠️ #shadesandspades
brake lines are also important. old brake lines get squishy and kill brake feel. I mostly ride old bikes and more than anything else a new set of braided lines improve the feel of older brakes soooo much
The types of calipers play a huge role in braking performance.
Another great video! I'm ready now for a valve shim adjustment video lol. You guys rock!
I'd like to clear up a couple of things I have always lived by with my Bike riding and that Primarily is , it matter's not what your Caliper setup is within reason, remember your Brake system does NOTHING more that slow the rotation of the wheels, ABSOLUTELY nothing more.
What stops and gives the stopping power to your bike is the tyre contact patch and it's grip level.
If you have shitty tyres then ultimately you WILL have shitty brakes as a result.
mozzmann well if you want to get a little more deep. Tires dont effect the brakes at all but what it does effect is how you stop or slow down.
How so ? you can have the most savage retardation of wheel rotation on the planet BUT if this overpower's the ability of the tyre to grip then you might be sliding on your but as a result.
I understand what Ari is on about however and one of the things that you IMHO should do is check the mounting holes and loosen them whether it is axial or radial so the caliper can centralise then tighten the retaining bolts so the caliper is central with the disc and not flexing the disc to either side.
yea man, forget upgrading your brakes. They only slow you down!
My tyres are great but brakes suck, so now what?
@@zyoungson215 What Bike and What Brake Caliper's etc there may be many reasons why your Brakes don't work well , !
A little more info and maybe I can help.
Love your videos. I don't have a bike yet I'mma work hard and get one some day...so much to learn and you made it easier some how..kudos
Ahhhh, u can't have a mc garage video without the quality puns
This is an awesome series, put it in a play list :)
Well done educational video. I learned what to look for on my next bike purchase. Thanks.
Thank you, Ari. I learn something just about every time.
Excellent little video. Thanks Ari
that r1m colour is dope af.
all that infintesimaly small performance enhancement might benefit some few racers or those clearly riding outside the legal limits of public roads. The real function of reasonably effective brake systems is their ability to convert kinetic energy (mass x velocity) into Heat energy and then dissipate as quickly. It IS this energy conversion process that actually slows the bike down and then allows it to stop. Depletion of Kinetic Energy by Converting it into Heat. Glowing white hot Ceramic brakes on a F1 are a classic example.
This video made me rigid. Thanks.
I can learn new things about bikes, learn how to do some of the maintanance, I can steal some of the tips about rc390 for myself... I'm just so glad I've came across your channel. :D
The radials also have more flexibility in changing rotor size which some did going from track to track
Radial calipers are mostly about being able to swap wheels and brake discs easier on a racing bike. Another fashion item, like pedal rotors.
Can you make a detailed video on hand brake installation for rear wheel without additional caliper?
I like your videos. As a subscriber, I try to watch as much as possible to learn and also be entertained. The presenter keeps you interested and enthused to keep watching. However all the bikes/examples, are of road bikes. How about some adventure/dual sport bikes included too?
ive just been reading about this for learning purposes. This is a much simpler, quicker way of showing everyone the differences, what a great concise video. Did radial brakes and master cylinders appear on mountain bikes first?
i only run one rotor up front. which id like to get it back to factory but cost alot to get a caliper chromed.
Obviously this young man still has some learning to do. I agree that pad condition & compound are important, along with properly bled system but the MOST important is experience/skill level in braking. Wet & dry!!
Dean Griswald this video wasn't about experience but the actual differences in the braking technology lmao. Ari races motorcycles.
This really is a fantastic series.
HI ari, I learnt so much from you bro, things that I didn't knew before, half of the stuff I am not going to do it myself, but still it's good to know how stuff works. so I can know if my mechanic is cheating.
Great quick concise instruction vid, thanks!
Again, I learned something new. Thanks, and keep up the good work!
Awesome Ari! I love these videos. Keep up the good work (please)!
Radial lever master cylinder: Look at 2:26 in video and imagine the cast lever was sticking out where the "distance adjust screw head" is, you would have the old lever to cylinder arrangement. Both use a pivot and a plunger use about the same lever lengths. The only thing this old engineer sees is that it might be cheaper to "acccidentally" make the new lever geometry stiffer, but old geometry might just need less flexy levers for the racers, not a 90deg. rotation of the plunger.
Yep, totally agree. Radial mount master cylinder not necessarily better than axial mount at all. It's just oriented a different way and is actuated by a different part of the lever. Bit of a marketing gimmick.
thanks Ari this was good.....
next braided and rubber break lines
wire wheels vs alloy for off Road
chain,belt and shaft drive
mother of all
electric 200hp motorcycle vs 200 hp internal combustion engine motorcycle.
Thanks for all the videos, learned a lot. Interested to know the difference between Drum and Disk brakes. Following you straight from Manila Ari :).
great video! I saw those dial adjusters on brake lever, how do they work?
great info for us newbies thanks for the vid! keep em coming
I enjoy this channel a lot thank you for the amazing content
these videos are fantastic......please keep up the good work
I've been wondering about this, good explanation.
Excellent as always :D you guys have a ride to Vancouver, Canada in the works :P ?
I did learn something today. Thanks
I learned something so I subscribed looking forward to checking out your content!
My 1982 yamaha has one radial mounted caliper. Not quite new
thanks a lot for explaining this..
Have you got a video explaining front master bore size like what would be the difference if I put a 19mm radial vs a let's say 14mm on my r6
great video thanks for sharing learning so much from fantastic channel...
Ok, I finally get it! Thanks Ari, keep,em coming.
I have an 02 Honda Shadow Spirit vt750 which is a cruiser. So I guess it doesn't matter too much since I'm not doing over a hundred. Just keep them working properly. But gookd to know if I ever get a sport bike. Which I would like to but can't afford. But one day. 😆
This dude is cool. I would like to have a beer with him while he helps me fix my bike.
good honest information , well said
Please do Half clutch vs full clutch
can you guys do a video on how to buy a used motorcycle? like what to look for and any tips you might have
that would be awesome. all of your "how to" videos have been in a tremendous help and i'll be making my first purchase within a couple months!
Thanks for putting up this video Ari.
These are brilliant videos!!
Wow the first time I knew about this. THANK YOU GUYS
I didn't understand how they are bolted in radial brakes. Please tell me.
nice looking R1 ;)
How about brakes for on dirt bikes. Like a Hartford Vr 220
very cool simple efective
Hey.... MC garage team
I had a little query regarding axial vs radial caliper.
Both were mounted at same position then how it make a difference?????
Do you have a video on those brakes where the disc is on the outside and mounted to the rim while the caliper is on the inside and turned so it's flipped out? What do they even call that? "Orbital Disk Brakes" or something?
That R1 looks fucking beast
hey ari whats the difference between sintered pads and rubber conventional break pads