What comes first? Flooring or Cabinets?
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- Опубліковано 11 вер 2024
- Flooring and Cabinets, which comes first? Weekly Bonus #11
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I absolutely agree, if you ever wanted to reconfigure a kitchen a customer then gets to spend extra $$ to replace the flooring.
I also prefer having my flooring go under my cabinets. I just want to add, do not forget to calk around your cabinets and or walls. Water proof vinyl plank flooring is only water proof if installed correctly and that includes calking. I had a pipe burst in the ceiling of my kitchen, although we caught it quickly the water flowed under my cabinets and to the edge of the wall and then under my flooring completely damaging it. We had to remove the flooring and some of the cabinets all because my contractor didnt think it was necessary to calk.
Great point! Thank you for sharing and reminding us.
What he did not cover. If cabinets installed first then 3/4" flooring and you have a dishwasher sitting on the subfloor it could be difficult to get the dishwasher in and out.
Cabinets are typically built to accommodate dishwashers either way. The metal flange that screws to the underside of cabinet is meant to extend up or down so the flooring height is never an issue. Thanks for the comment.
If then you put runner flooring for the unit to slide in
I agree with you. Been doing flooring and cabinets for almost 18yesrs and I always tell my clients to put the floor down first.
Agreed, if flooring can handle a grand piano, it can handle cabinets without securing the cabinets to the floor. I always tell my installers to mount cabinets to the wall and not the floor, unless installing and island.
@@HowToBuildYourOwnHome I have a U-shaped bar that I'm building. 2 sides will be attached to the wall exactly like you described, but what would you suggest doing for the peninsula section?
Ok so then what do you tell you previous client that decides to install new floors years down the road? When there is a whole sets of cabinets and backsplash tile work that fit exactly to the height of the flooring thickness. This gets expensive real quick ! Same goes with a plank needing replacement it turns into a whole project.
I agree with this all day long. I used to do it cabinet first but also, depending on the flooring, you will more than likely change your cabinets before your floors.
I'm not a builder but that makes sense to put the floor down first.
Could not agree more! Especially when using 3/4" hardwoods in the kitchen which are used a lot where we live. I've seen cabinets installed before the hardwoods and then have an issue getting the dishwasher in after the countertops have been installed. That 3/4" can make a difference.
I don’t think that’s the same thing. You still put flooring down before appliances, just not before cabinets.
His point is correct for looks. But generally, people change the flooring more often than cabinets. So the next flooring install will be difficult to do if you are removing the old flooring.
Correct.
If you change your floors and not the cabinets, you cut the floor at the base of the cabinets with an oscillating tool and remove the floor, then install the new one.
You can mount the cabinets to the floor just drill out the flooring so it has room to expand around the mounting bolts and use a washer on top for the excess hole size👍
That's a great idea.
This will still void your warranty, unfortunately, with most brands
Wow yea glad I found this video I’m putting lvp flooring in my kitchen and I HATE how the previous installers cut it around the cabinets I’m installing my new floors under my cabinets I agree you put huge heavy furniture on it that probably weighs more than your cabinets. Good idea to support your base cabinets mostly on the wall
Thanks for being here and your reply.
I love when the flooring runs under the cabinets… I’m in the appliance business… I can’t tell you how many times we go out to install a new dishwasher and there’s a inch and a half drop off in front of the dishwasher… and the dishwasher is unable to be removed without breaking up the flooring… and most of these instances they have thick tiles or thick hardwood floors,( and also granite countertops) Of course they put those items in to the kitchen… “Later“ as “upgrades“….🙈… now they can’t get the dishwasher out or install the new one without a big hassle….. i’ve also seen it with slide in style ranges. flooring installers run the floor under the stove and the slide in range is supposed to be flush with the countertop on the sides… But instead it sticks up 1 1/2 “ i’ve also seen cases where their solution was to simply not put any flooring under the stove so that it would sit flush… when you go to remove the stove… And you can’t do it because they ran it right over top of the front legs making it impossible… Or it takes two men three boys and a dog to get the thing out of there….. so yeah… Run the flooring under the cabinets please…😂
Good point. Too many layers of flooring is eventually a pain.
You're supposed to run flooring BETWEEN cabinets for the appliances to sit on. However any type of floating floor is not to be placed under cabinets. It will void your warranty. Something to call your flooring company about to check. No point in 20yr warranty if you throw it out the window on install day
@@HowToBuildYourOwnHome
What about typical hard wood floors? I think they run under my cabinets….I wouldn’t put LVP under cabinets ….but hard wood is very common in my area under cabinets in these old houses…
A potential problem I see is, if the flooring ever needs redone (but the cabinets are fine) it will be difficult to tear out the old flooring.
The kick plate can be removed, the cut out the old flooring and install new floor. Kick plate hides the transition.
The quality of this video! Damn! Impressive
Thank you!
Great advice, this is exactly what we did and logically it makes complete sense!
makes sense to me too
Wrong, wrong, wrong!
I've been installing flooring for 35 years and every time someone wants to put the flooring under the cabinets in a new remodel I try to explain to them that if there is a leak from the plumbing or dishwasher, water and moisture will trapped under the flooring beneath the cabinets. And that will turn into a serious mold problem. Then the only way to remove the damged wood or flooring is to remove ALL of the cabinetry as well. And it can't be removed and reinstalled. It is impossible to dry out the wet flooring under the cabinets. I've seen it happen a few times. A friend of mine who's a professional hardwood floor installer got sued because of that. He installed the hardwood before the cabinets came in and sure enough there was a leak overnight and there you have it.
More flooring manufacturers are engineering the product to go directly under the cabinets before they are installed. Stellar Innovations is one such wood flooring. For remodels yes I can see the point. But for new construction where the flooring and cabinets are new and you are dealing with time and a cleaner look with no 1/4 inch round to hide gabs, there is an argument for both.
@@HowToBuildYourOwnHome
Yes I agree that it's a much cleaner install minus the 1/4 round but from an installer's perspective it's not worth the liability in this litigious society. I've seen it happen and then it's off to court to see who's footing the bill for the inspector, the mold remediation company and finally new cabinets and flooring.
Why do you need 1/4 round. Just install the cabinets without the kick board and end boards. Then lay your flooring with the expansion gap and then put on the kickboards and ends
@@glennbeauchamp3202 THANK YOU
@@glennbeauchamp3202 Absolutely! I did it so many times. Very simple and good practice. Even better, I scribed toe kick skin to the floor.
Hey, I'm with you. Cabinets on top.
I prefer (especially for tile floors) to do them after the cabinets. Yes, it takes more precise cutting, but it isn't that hard. And, if you decide to change your flooring, your don't have to mess with your cabinets. JMHO
And it gives your house a “trailer park” vibe when your floors are under “everything”.
When I go pre finished cabinets I put the floor down first, But If I go with unfinished cabinets that will need to be painted. I definitely put cabinets in first. There is no amount of protection that will stop that overspray from the paint sprayer.
Very true
We're doing floating engineered wood flooring after cabinets are installed, but we have nice base molding, so any gap isn't an issue. Hubby is building and installing the cabinets, and I'm installing the flooring so time isn't an issue.
Love it Keith. Keep up the great work.
Flooring gets replaced a lot more often than the cabinets. Besides the warranty issue, I wouldn't want to bother with having to cut the flooring flush to the cabinet when replacing. Shoe moulding never bothered me but I know a lot of people don't like it
Cleaner at the bottom without the trim, that I agree. But if you have a flooded kitchen the restoration and insurance company is going to have a headache trying to dry the flooring under the cabinets. I still think we will go down this route flooring first and then cabinet island work on top. Now just need to figure out if we are going to run wood flooring throughout the whole bottom story of the house and into the kitchen for a continuous look. Then that leave what to do with the stairs and the second floor….ughhh.
As a licensed water restoration tech if you run the floor under your cabinets the cabinets are coming out in the case of a water damage.
True for wood, but not for high quality vinyl that is impervious to water damage, same for tile.
it makes sense to put down flooring first. I personally hate the cut around too.
Just install a plywood runner a 1/16 to 1/8 taller than the flooring and a 1/2" set under toe kick face this way the flooring is still free floating with no weight and hidden Also if you're installing a toe kick face it will hide the gap in the floor to bottom of cabinet
If you need to shim a cabinet up on a finished floor you need to trim the bottom anyway to hide the shim.
They say that it is not warranted if you do that and also you’ll have problems with your LVP flooring expanding and contracting during certain types of weather
If flooring can handle the weight of a grand piano, it can handle this, provided there is sufficient expansion around the rest of the room under the base board. This has been my practice in arid climates. High humid climates might be different.
I’m going to have the Brazilian Pecan solid hardwood flooring and new kitchen cabinets installation since they are solid wood which one would you recommend first, thanks!
What do you do if you want to change the floors but the bathroom/kitchen cabinets are still good and you you want to leave them alone? Cabinets are sitting on top of existing floors.
Demo the floor up to the edge of the cabinets and then new floor will come right to the edge of the cabinet and then a new kick plate is installed to hide the transition.
We had this very issue with our kitchen in our house remodel -- except our cabinets are sitting on TILE. It's a problem that's really too big for DIY'ers. So I'm torn on this subject.
To do it right, you would new have to remove cabinets, that’s why I would never consider this option.
I want the option to change my floors out in the future if I want to without pulling my cabinets out.
Thanks for watching and happy building.
I'm with you!
Thank you!
You're welcome!
Is a good idea to put tiles first before cabinets easy to work on it and you dont have to be to much cuts. The only problem is when you want to replace new tle floor you have to cut around to remove the existing tile but i still put the tile first soorry for the one who have to do a new tile floor
Very true. Pick a tile that has a lasting look to it and it should be good for a long time.
OK THis guy is sort of correct ' I have been installing cabinets since 1995 ( Over 600 plus kitchens ) and I have also installed floors before there ever was floating floor systems .
The fact is that correctly installed cabinets are are NEVER NEVER fasten to any floor in any way . They are always fasten to the wall on wall cleats and wall studs and supported at the front bottom edge with a kick attached to the cabinet and only sitting on the floor . Island are never fastened to any floor with screws or machanical fasteners that would prevent a floating floor from expanding and contracting.
Island can sometimes used glued with blocking on the floor surface to stop sliding of island . But never through the flooring material.
Any pro cabinets installers would know this . Even a none floating floor, glued or nailed down would never be fasten to the floor substrate .
The does not affect the floor'r ability to expand or contract with the changing environment .
Any flooring company worth their salt only need to ask how the cabinets are being installed.and make sure cabinets are not fasten to the floor. Its not rocket science .
Only idiot cabinet companies would be so behind the times to fasten cabinets to the floor . There is no need for it . And with the maybe 20 plus cabinet companies I have installed for . I have never be asked to fasten cabinets to any floor . I know many pro cabinet intallers who never do this.
The correct way is to install a floating floor to all the wall with 1/4" gap so that all appliances are accommodated . And make sure that all cabinets are attached to the wall on 3/4' cleating and the studs . The kick just sits on the floor and floats with it . this way the warranty is never voided
Almost every major LVP manufacturer’s warranty policy explicitly states that appliances should NOT be installed atop floating floors or the warranty is voided! And cabinets with stone are heavy! Just a bad idea altogether.
I have never seen anyone call in one of those warranties. What about a grand piano?
@@HowToBuildYourOwnHome therein lies the problem with floating floors. I’ve seen a king-size bed create bows & “clicking” in a master bedroom because the floor wasn’t allowed to “move” with seasonal changes in humidity. Bottom line, if whatever you’re placing on top of it is heavier than 100lbs, consider gluing those areas down. Then again, adhesive ALSO voids the warranty! Lol
What sequence would you suggest if we choose to have natural stone flooring
Get that installed first.
What if the kitchen has an island countertop? Does that change things since you cannot mount to the wall
No. It should not be an issue. If flooring can handle a heavy couch or a grand piano, it can handle cabinets with counters.
What about doors? Should you put doors first and then floor or other way around?
Very good question. Doors do not place a lot of weight on the floor, as they are hung on the framing structure. I would install flooring first, except carpet. If will give a much cleaner look.
Keith when you mention to use a saw to cut down to a quarter inch around your island are you referring to a quarter inch from the sub floor?
Couldn’t really understand why the flooring was installed after cabinets and appliances. About to redo our kitchen and all the UA-cam and install videos said to install floor after.
Glad I’m not alone in thinking that flooring should be installed first. My kitchen isn’t that big and I want everything on an even floor.
A lot of flooring manufacturers do not warranty the floor if cabinets are nailed to it, but if you an put a baby grand piano on the floor, you can put cabinets on the floor, just do not nail them through the floor, use the walls the mount. In islands, I install the flooring first and then ask the cabinet installer to stensil out where he or she will place the island and then I cut out the flooring in that area. FYI, islands can be a bit lower if you do this so they may need to shim them up.
@@HowToBuildYourOwnHome thank you. I’m also over 6 foot so anything to help make my cabinets taller is much appreciated. Even if it’s only 3/4”
@@stephenalfaro1350 lol
A lot of flooring manufacturers will VOID your warranty if you install it beneath the cabinets!
Correct, but if flooring can handle a baby grand, and if cabinets are secured about the wall and not to the floor, I have never had a problem and plus those warranties are never really called on.
Would rather not put mine under the cabinets. That way, it will be easier to update just the floor in the future.
Good point.
Hi, I am replacing my old cabinets. I am also increasing the base cabinet space/area. I mean currently, my base cabinet is about 8'. That includes a dishwasher and sink base. So there is very limited cabinet storage. I am planning to add an additional 6' of base cabinet space beside the existing one. The issue is that I see the existing cabinets placed below the flooring, I see a kind of 8' x 21"" groove/pit in which cabinets are placed. So my new 6' cabinet section will not level with the existing one. I guess the older cabinets are directly installed over the subfloor. Does it sound like the topic you are discussing in this video. I mean did they install the cabinets first and then the flooring? If yes can I use the plywood to level the flooring?
Yes, it sounds like new flooring was installed later after the cabinets. There will be a sub-floor below the cabinets.
And what if the cabinets are there already and you want to redo the floor?
Then cut out the old around the cabinets and install the new flooring. Cutting out is done all the time. Some things are never ideal for the long haul but in the moment of fist building getting that more idea is often preferred.
@@HowToBuildYourOwnHome I am in the same boat. They are saying they have to add a trim in front of the wardrobes. I like the 90 degree shape it is now, and I absolutely will not agree some tack-on trim there. Is there any other option? Floor company says no and that stopped me from getting some expensive vinyl floor. I am glad I found this, because I have been searching a whole lot on youtube for info on this. Many thanks!
Hey, I have a 350-400 lb island and I'm installing it to the subfloor and then doing the vinyl plank around it. My question, is it necessary to anchor the island to the floor? I don't really see it moving any.
I would secure to subfloor, even some liquid nails would be fine.
@@HowToBuildYourOwnHome Yeah liquid nails is a good idea! Thank you
If the laminate is cut and removed where the kitchen island is going, it will not have a flushed look and will need a quarter round to cover the gaps.
If you cut it right with a 1/4 gab for expansion and contraction then you can put your kick plate on after and this will cover that without any 1/4 inch round.
put your island on wheels, if it's not plumbed in
@@HowToBuildYourOwnHome How about on the ends of the island where there are no kick plates? That is my dilemma. How do I maintain a 1/4 inch space on the ends without a trim board?
Your advice on placing cabinets on glued down wood laminate flooring? Flooring is glued down to concrete slab and cabinets are anchored to wall studs.
correct
@@HowToBuildYourOwnHome How about a island measuring about 54" x 24" with granite countertop sitting on glued down wood laminate floor? Will the weight impede floor movement?
Is it also true that glued down flooring moves significantly less than a floating floor?
All Europe builders do the same right thing, flooring first!
Good to know.
How would you go about a waterfall island? We just had LVP installed and were told the waterfall island has to go on top for a smooth waterfall transition. We'll have quartz on top. The contractor is planning on building the island right on top of the flooring. Thoughts?
Even though most flooring contractors may not allow that, at least the manufacturer side, I do it all the time. He is my logic. If flooring can handle a grand piano, then it an handle cabinets. The trick with most floating products is sufficient expansion at the edges and other gab expansion techniques.
@@HowToBuildYourOwnHome ok thank you! So building an island to the LVP would be ok in your handbook? Along with attaching the waterfall countertops?
Curious to hear how you went with this? I’ll be in the same situation soon.
@@daniel.s8126 Yeah we ended up going with the waterfall on top of the LVP. Got it done Oct of 2024 and so far so good, no issues!
Great video. Answered my questions. do you still stand by this info 2 years later??
Yes and yes
This is the first video I watched of yours that I can’t agree with. Why waste all the square feet of flooring under a cabinet. Every place I have installed cabinets gravity was working , so all the items and countertops are setting on the floor. Lastly, what will get changed first; the floor or the cabinets. I’m guessing the floor.
Good point, but I guess it depends on the floor. A great floor can last a long time . To me, it's a labor issue. If you are the one installing the flooring you might wish for a faster way than cutting around all that cabinet base. But then again, maybe you might want to change out the flooring sooner. A lot to consider. Love your comment.
If you’re doing a remodel I’m sure sure you have a couple extra bucks to run wood wall to wall. Let me ask you ? What will you do about covering the 1/4 “ cut edge against the toe kick... how will you cover that , and will it look clean. What about the height of the range vs the cabinet height, will the range sit higher? Just saying
I have four kids and a tiled house. Guess who is winning? My five year old cabinets looked like someone did a P poor antiquing job. Dam kids!
Only problem that I see doing flooring first is getting damaged by the next contractor.
Use ramboard to protect. www.homedepot.com/p/Ram-Board-0-046-in-x-38-in-x-100-ft-Ram-Board-Temporary-Floor-Protection-5008200/202088850
We are in the similar situation where we are unable to decide whether to go with cabinet first or flooring first. Here is the situation: we are living in the house while doing floor and kitchen remodeling. Secondly, our kitchen has a big island like 8ft by 6 ft. And on flooring we are going with porcelain tiles. Now the problem is, as per what you suggested if I go with floor first then I have remove or cut porcelain tile for the island which will be big effort. Any ideas how I can do it?
Had the same issue a week ago. My tile guy cut it out at the base and under the cabinet just enough so he could install new tile up to the base. Looks like the original tile now. You may need a hammer drill to chisel it out.
I installed my island right over the tile floor... Roughly the same size as yours, 4 cabinets in total connected together floating on the floor with granite countertop.. The backside of the cabinets I placed a peice of finished plywood with side paneling then painted (same style as cabinet doors). Its solid and not going anywhere.
This is great, thank you! Some cabinets sit on 4 legs (i.e. Ikea) and then have the easily removed toe kick. Would that be OK to do BEFORE floors? Thank you!
Yes. That would work, as long as the kick board is non-supporting.
Do you recommend putting the vinyl plank in kitchen?
Yes. It is in my kitchen.
What about with laminate flooring (12 mil) with Quiet Walk? Our cabinets have to wait due to $$ but we really need to get moving on the flooring.
If it is glue down, you can install under cabinets. If floating, it really depends on the manufacture and your environment. For example, do you get a lot of humidity or does it dry out fast?
@@HowToBuildYourOwnHome thanks for the reply - it's a Pergo product and were putting it on a slab floor house in a relatively dry hot area. CA Sierra foothills.
People who put down flooring after cabinets are the same ones who don't pull off baseboards either. Also the same ones who unnecessary put in transition pieces when both rooms share the same type of flooring. What's next? Not undercutting the door jams?
Huh?
Hardwood flooring FIRST then CABINETS
I agree, mostly.
Question
Would you install a wooden laminate floor before cabinets as well?
Great video 👍 thanks!
Not wood laminate, if floating. If glue down, yes. I am not a fan of floating laminate.
From what Im told the fear of place cabinets directly on a floating floor is that the weight of the cabinets with cause the floor to buckle as it expands. I understand the logic, but I think you have some very good points. I have a couple questions…
If i fasten the cabinets to the wall, is there something you suggest to put under the cabinets, especially in the high areas, that can give them extra support? Shims? Felt furniture pads? I dont think my kitchen has much of a slope but wanted to ask before I start.
My kitchen has a doorway with 4 walls. The cabinets will only cover 2 1/2 of the walls leaving a lot of the floor uncovered by cabinets, would this also help prevent buckling? Would be installing LVP.
Thank you!
LCP is a great product. IF designed to handle a grand piano, they can handle the cabinets. That's my logic. I would not secure cabinets to the floor, just the wall. Let them rest on the floor by secured to wall. Refer to the manufacturers suggestions to make sure.
Cabinets are NOT to go over a "floating" floor. That floor needs to move around, expand, and contract. All warranties are voided if cabinets are installed over it. And as for other floors, flooring is a "finish." Cabinets are NOT. Flooring goes in AFTER cabinets. If you find you're having to use quarter round after flooring is installed then that is because you have CRAPPY INSTALLERS. Unless you're talking about floating floors in which case that's what is REQUIRED. DON'T PUT CABINETS ON FLOATING FLOORS.....PERIOD!
NO slabs are perfectly flat and/or level and installing cabinets over flooring on that STILL requires shims in places under the boxes because they won't be touching the floor because the cabinets DO need to get installed flat and level and then what you have is AGAIN a need for quarter round. And if it's tile under the cabinets, you make it really hard on the people doing the next floor-change job on that floor. When breaking tile up from around cabinets when that tile goes UNDER the cabinets is intense and cannot be done cleanly so you end up destabilizing the very thing that is holding up the cabinets, especially where those shims are. And when there are heavy tops on those cabinets, that's a recipe for disaster.
When installing cabinets first, make sure beforehand that the thickness of your flooring installation is not going to make the dishwasher not fit. In other words, if you're going to need an extra layer of subfloor before the tile and then you're gonna use an uncoupling membrane also, then install the extra layer of subfloor beFORE the cabinets go in. Installing flooring under cabinetry is an unprofessional, corner-cutting way of doing business and is NOT advice that ANYONE should follow, unless of course you're selfish and inconsiderate and don't give a hoot about leaving a costly headache for whomever will be changing out the floor next.
Great comment, as for efficiency and clean build, scheduling and so much more, I see more and more builders installing flooring first, even against the warranty of the flooring manufacturer. If a floor can handle a baby grand piano, it can handle cabinets on it.
Yep. The idiot that made this video is going to cost a lot of people a lot of money. If youtube were held legally responsible for the advice of the videos on their service (which it should be), this video would not exist.
Don't be an idiot. If the manufacturers say don't install under cabinets, DON'T INSTALL UNDER CABINETS!
So that means do not put a grand piano on the flooring idea, definitely more heavy than cabinets, or a very heavy couch.
@@HowToBuildYourOwnHome It's not the weight, it's the fixed nature of the cabinets because they're nailed to the wall so cannot move with the floor.
@@ty194 Couches and appliances don't move with the floor
@@doublej5045 Why wouldn't they?
Who are the people who think you can't put cabinets on top of a floating floor? Where do you put your furniture? What do you put your refrigerator? Who do you put your thousand pound entertainment system? Used common sense
You are correct, however manufacturers will not warranty many floors if put under cabinets with the assumption they cannot expand and contract as needed.
@@HowToBuildYourOwnHome the logic is just ridiculous
I'm finding warranties pretty much useless, like insurance, pay and pay. Then there are Pages of reasons they don't have to cover
Your furniture, refrigerator, your thousand pound entertainment system can move with the floor, your kitchen cabinets don't because they're nailed to the wall hence why you don't put cabinets on top of a moving, floating floor.
are you a cabinet guy or a floor guy?
I am a GC who thinks about all sub-contractors.
Who farted at 1:29?
you are wasting money by putting material down that you cannot see or touch.
It's a time issue more than anything. I prefer to tile and install flooring before cabinets. Plus it is a labor issue. Cutting around cabinets is not fun, and I do not like 1/4 round trim.
Vinyl flooring sucks brah 😐
Yes, it the product is bad news, but some higher grade products do exist, I have such in my home, and I have dogs, best product out there for that need.
@@HowToBuildYourOwnHome nice homes in Texas don’t have vinyl floors because they’re for poor people brah
"learn how to build your own home" at least teach it properly dude... cabinets go BEFORE flooring or you will void the warranty... (that is why flooring comes with instructions)
I install flooring first, then place a template where the cabinets go and then cut out that section for a perfect 1/4 inch separation, exactly what most flooring manufactures want to allow for proper expansion and contraction. Thanks for the feedback. There are many ways to do things.
Do you cut around your 500lb refrigerator? Of course not.... You really think of 50 lb cabinet is going to make a difference? Use common sense I've been installing flooring for years I always put the flooring in first and have yet ever have a problem you're not going to stop the expansion and contraction process
@@HowToBuildYourOwnHome how do you cut the flooring?
Mainly how do you get the corners perfect?
pretty much didn't say anything
It’s a waste of materials and time…flooring goes in after cabinets.
Not if it is tile or a glue down wood. Cutting around cabinets to install flooring is more labor intensive than putting cabinets down after. At least this in the case for new const.
Well, people do love to argue.
My concern is this. I'm not worried about waterproofing the open kitchen. Geeze not with Vinyl. Wood, even engineered wood has fibers that can be hygroscopic. Not if properly sealed etc. But vinyl?
I'm more worried about some future leak in or under a cabinet, a dishwasher, the fridge... That's where I most particularly want it water tight/resistant. I may not see it right away. What idiot would leave standing water in the open area anyway? True, around showers and whatnot - but who would run flooring under a shower? What about a freestanding tub? OK, what about a 4-footed freestanding tub?
It seems to be just an excuse to void the flooring warranty when dealing with VLP. I humbly submit that people use their God given gift of reason. Given the weight of a gun safe, freezer, frig, washer (with water), water bed, water heater, sofa with good ol' boys, you name it -- sitting on top. How much thermal expansion do you think VLP has? Now, ask - is your space heated and cooled? Humidity controlled? Is it a kitchen, bathroom, laundry room? Does your flooring have an "acclimation period?" Does VLP? What is the maximum floor size they say you can do without an expansion joint. How does 8 or 10' wide kitchen nook like he has there look to you? How much thermal expansion -- even at its worst -- going to have?
If I had any concerns it would be the "padding" between the flooring and subfloor crushing with fatigue over time.
For those who ask "What do you do when you want to change the flooring?" You pull the cabinets or cut the old out - your choice.
At this point I just don't see the physics of having to remove the flooring. Just as soon as you caulk the edge under quarter round - it isn't floating.
I could be wrong so don't trust my opinion but with VLP or roll vinyl, stick-down tile - it sounds like B.S. to let the manufacturers and underwriters escape having to honour their warranty -- that they use to convince you to buy their products.
It just doesn't make walking around sense.
This doesn't work in a number of instances. Keep on keepin on though boys. Understanding physics is important and shouldn't be thrown out.
Correct. For tile and glue-down wood and vinyl, it works, but not for. floating floors, which I am not favorable to.
What happens when you have to replace floor. You have to remove cab too
Not always, just the kick plate if you have one.