Sony FX3 vs. Arri Alexa (Skin Tones, Highlights, and Cine EI)
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- Опубліковано 2 сер 2024
- F1 film emulation is here! - juiceboxstudio.store
Part 3 comparing the Sony FX3 to the Arri Alexa Mini LF. Both cameras were set to the same settings for each shot. A 35mm Zeiss Flektogon was used on both cameras. My 4th and final video about this topic will cover how to match the two cameras in davinci resolve, and will be posted within the next week or so.
Technical:
Arri Alexa Mini LF: Arriraw OG 4448x3096
FX3: 3840x2160 XAVC-I 4k 3840x2160
Both Cameras were framed for 2.39:1, rendered to ProRes 422 and uploaded to UA-cam.
Feel free to hit me up with any questions.. always testing.
/ wstrpp
Part 1: • Sony FX3 vs Arri Alexa...
Part 2: • Sony FX3 and Canon C70...
0:00 Intro
0:42 First Scene - CST
3:14 Skin Tone
4:12 Manufacturer's LUTs
5:04 My LUT
5:25 Highlights
8:22 Foreshadowing...
#sonyfx3 #arrialexa
great video dude! super interesting the way Sony slog-3 handles dynamic range and distribution of tones
Thank you! Yes it is interesting for sure.
Blaine, you always bring us interesting videos! I also like your short videos💛
Thank you 😊 the shorts are definitely a late night experiment for now, but I do have a lot more “short” clips I will upload.
@@BlaineWestropp1 looking forward to them! ☺️
:)
As a A7SIII/FX3 user I find this super interesting !
And If you want to talk about your 35 Flektogon, I'm sure there's plenty of people here interested in that ! =)
Thank you! I love the flektogon. I ordered 2 more zeiss jenas on eBay. Anxiously waiting for the 20 and the 50 to arrive.
Stellar video as usual 🔥 But I love how your wife is just chillin and watching you do the tests!
Thank you! Had to have her there to make sure I didn’t miss anything. I’m new to being in front of the camera 😂
@@BlaineWestropp1 What lens were you using to film your commentary tho? It rolls off well on your skin tones
@@itsmarcocanlas that was the sigma 24-70 on the FX3. Used color compressor (a new thing I’ve been experimenting with) in resolve and it worked some magic.
@@BlaineWestropp1 Insane! Didn't look like the sigma 24-70, it looks softer and less sharp! Did you have a diffusion filter or nah?
@@itsmarcocanlas nah, possibly looked softer bc those clips were rendered to 1080.
Looking forward to it.
THIS IS GORGEOUS VIDEO I HAVE EVER WATCHED
❤️❤️
Just don’t watch this next to your Amazon Alexa. 😂
Ya know when I was originally recording this I attempted to say “camera 1” and “camera 2” for this very reason, but I kept just calling them by name 😂
@@BlaineWestropp1 😂 it’s a great video my man. As a Sony user it was great to see the comparison; loved it. 👊🏻
Thank you :)
That Just happened 😳
You might try ACES. I did some tests with all the main cameras from Sony, Canon, Arri, Red and found the ACES transforms made them all match pretty closely where the DaVinci transforms all looked good but didn’t end up looking like each other.
i really haven't stuck to an ACES workflow, for web delivery I felt as if it added more steps than I was interested in fully learning. I need to look into it further. I can manually match different cameras in resolve pretty well (different A and B camera for an interview for example). I will test ACES again. any pro tips?
@@BlaineWestropp1 Well I like to set the Color Space and Transforms in the Project settings. ACEScct, ACES 1.3, Apply ACES reference gamut compress
Then all the exposure transforms are done in the timeline space which is ACEScct. I do this so you can apply the same adjustments to clips of multiple cameras and also because it is easier to just have less nodes when the in and out transform aren't on each clip.
You could do the same test you did but use the ACES transform instead of the DaVinci one. Maybe you will get a closer result but maybe you will still see the difference.
@@elvisripley cool thank you. Will definitely look into this.
To the point. Great vid
Thank you
Would love to see phantom lut comparison!
Bought it to get close to arri look.
Pay attention to the WDR thing included, pulls out extra range for me but I’m not a pro colorist.
That’s what everyone keeps saying! Will definitely do that next. I want to test the BM pocket 6k against the Alexa as well so maybe I’ll use phantom for that and the fx3 when I do that test.
please do@@BlaineWestropp1
Phantom luts comparison against the Alexa? Would love to see that. This is a great video by the way thanks Blaine 🙏 😊
Thank you! I will happily do a video comparing the phantom luts!
@@BlaineWestropp1 thank you! I’ve heard they’re the best for Sony - apparently
i have heard this as well!
Great content! Is the Slog3 underexposed in the first clips? Yes Sony EI does not exposure just the way you view it. You will need to expose it manually if you don't want it to clip. Next week I should have my Fx30, I will do similar test. Also vs my Original A7s and slog2
Definitely want to see some footage from the fx30! Both shots in the beginning are a bit underexposed. I wanted to keep the windows open, and just kind of quickly set it up. I also know I can bring up the exposure on both cameras without much of an issue. And lastly, when I set the shot, the monitor on the table was lighting my face, when I turned it off I could not see that my face dropped a lot in exposure :(
Thanks for tests. I sold my Alexa Classic a few months ago and miss it, mainly cause it was HUGE. Since then I bought a Komodo to replace my Alexa for my higher-end gigs and meh, I don't like the image or working with the Komodo at all. I have an FX3 that I actually prefer over the Komodo, but client perception of the tiny camera is no bueno, so I made the decision to buy an Amira. Yes, it's heavy but lighter than the classic, and it has that Alexa magic. The great thing about the Alev III sensor is that no matter what lens you put on it, even a Sigma 18-35mm, it still looks magical. I've gotten tired of trying to make other cameras look like Alexa by using Phantom LUTs or Juan Melara's great Sony2Alexa or Komodo2Alexa LUTs. At the end of the day, nothing is like an Alexa.
I agree with you about the Alexa image. I also like red, had a scarlet-w for a while and loved it. Working with the Alexa (like actually working with the camer) is really top notch and perfect. I’d recommend searching for a mini. I’ve seen great prices here and there.
@@BlaineWestropp1 The thing is, is that the Amira images is identical to Mini and it does ProRes 3.2K and 200fps HD like the Mini, and can record internal audio cause it has phantom XLR. I need that for a lot of jobs I do. Then I don't have to sync during edit and don't need a separate sound recordist. Cheapest Alexa Mini is about $27k and cheapest Amira is $13K.
@@willvazquez3218 I gotcha, well then I’d definitely makes sense to go amira in that case. I know you’ll love it.
Hey have you used the Sigma fp? Do you have any thoughts on it? I was thinking about buying either the Fx3 or Sigma
@@anirudhtd7193 I owned the Sigma FP for a year. Fun camera to play with, but Sony FX3 is much more feasible. The FX3 has the best autofocus in the world with a great selection of affordable lenses, and great 422 10 bit color, AND XLR audio handle with phantom power. A beast. Buy it, you’ll love it.
nice color grade after the log conversation
Thank you :)
i see what’s in the background 😈
Hehe shhhh 😇
Not as nearly as nice as the Alexa, but have been really pleased with my Sonys! I really need to use Resolve more
I’ve been pleased with the FX3, as I mentioned I bring it everywhere. I think if you put portability and quality on a Casey Neistat style camera graph, the FX3 would hit both more than most others.
@@BlaineWestropp1 Fraiser just used it to shoot "the creator". Basically just legitimize it as a real cinema camera
Did he shoot the whole film on it? What lenses did he use?
@@BlaineWestropp1 it seems that the whole film. He used orions. Pretty wild. I would assume he also used his characteristic "print to film" then rescanned like in Dune.
Interesting! I have to check it out
Great video! About the highlight recovery, you tested sony at both its native ISOs, If you go to 1000 iso or above on sony you should see the difference in the latitudes. For FX9 if you go from 800 to 1600 you gain one stop in highlights and lose one stop in shadows. not sure about the fx3.
On the FX3 you do not gain anything or lose anything when changing from 800 to anything else. Haven’t used the fx9, but I was pretty certain this was the same. If your clipping point isn’t changing you aren’t gaining anything. Does your clipping point change on the fx9 if you increase iso?
Also, thank you!
I just got a fx9 few weeks back and haven’t tested that yet but I found a chart, I’ll share it with you on your IG which explains how changing ISO changes how the dynamic range works.
Definitely going to do a real time test sometime soon.
I’ve seen the charts! Test it on the fx9 and let me know!
lol your wife was like “you better put me in your video so they know you’re not single” hahahaha
Hahaha oh I assure you it’s me pushing her to be in the videos.
Did you try the second base ISO for the FX3? It goes up to 12,800. I was wondering what it would do to the highlights
Yes! You can see this @5:50
Can you do a iPhone 15 pro max vs Alexa, mini LF? That Apple log is like butter!
Yes! 100%. Can’t wait to post this :) I actually really love the apple log.
I have done same highlights test with Venice, it does the same as your experiment with fx3, clipping point is the same even if you crank up iso
Interesting, I was wondering that but have not tested this on the Venice!
Do you know what IRE value the log image clips on the Venice?
I think it was 94%? I check that and let you know
Thank you!
I'd love to know how exposure index is different on ARRI vs Sony. I understand that Sony does not gain highlight info because it still records at 800 native. Like the ARRIs, Blackmagic cameras let you gain highlight information when you raise the ISO. When you change the EI on ARRIs is it still recording native ISO and just changing the display? If its EI not ISO(?) how does it gain highlight info? Thanks! I'd love to see a video explaining the difference.
Hi, when you change the EI on an Alexa, it is not recording native and just changing the display, it actually recorded the changed EI. If you raise the EI, the point at which the sensor clips the log image rises, which is a very nice thing to have. On the FX3, when you change the EI, nothing happens on the sensor, the only thing that happens is the display gets brighter or darker. The problem I have with the FX3 is that your zebra will indicate different clipping as you change the EI. So you can unfortunately be in a scenario where (if your zebras are set to 94 to show you where you are clipping) you lower your EI, and the screen says you are not clipping but then you look at the footage and its completely clipped. The zebras should not change on the FX3 when you change EI, because.. the image actually doesn't change at all. This is not the case on the Alexa.
@@BlaineWestropp1 thanks for letting me know about the zebra issue on the FX3! That's definitely a problem to be aware of. I only started hearing about EI when the FX9 came out. Sounds like EI on ARRI is basically ISO - and it works just like Blackmagic. Any idea why ARRI calls it EI and not ISO?
@@JohnLuna sure thing! on the fX3 I just stick to 800 or 12800 (rarely). Arri calls it EI bc each camera has one ISO. On the mini LF that ISO is 800. You can't change the iso, but you can change the EI which shifts the dynamic range allocation above/below middle grey. It's like film, you can't change the ISO of a film stock. During regular operations though, EI on a digital camera behaves like ISO, and on the Alexa it changes where the DR sits. I think a lot of other camera just use the term ISO to not complicate things!
@@BlaineWestropp1 thanks for that lesson lol. I appreciate it! So to be clear only Sony just changes the display? Is it only an FX3/30 thing?
Sure thing! Glad to help. Yes Sony EI adjustments just changes the image on the display. The purpose of it is to view what an exposure adjustment in post may look like. In this case it would be good to have a large accurate monitor on set. It is not only an fx3/30 thing. I believe it is the same even up to the Venice (haven’t specifically tested this on the Venice, but someone in the comments here mentioned that was the case).
When you enlarge highlights range, you lower a shadows range (noise floor) in Alexa.
Yes of course!
So regarding the same clipping point in the fx3 - would you recommend just to stay at ISO 800? If the highlights clip at the same point, with ISO 800 you could at least save informations in the shadows...
I keep the fx3 at 800 or 12800. If I could have a way to see if the log image was clipping, I would move around the iso all the time. but I have been in a scenario with the fx3 where I lowered the EI, had zebras set, thought I was not clipping, and then later I see clipped footage in resolve.
@@BlaineWestropp1 what Zebra Values work the best for you for skintones and highlights? With the phantom LUTs the suggested IRE is at 56 for skintones and at 75 for highlights. But with my FX30 I tend to underexpose when sticking to those values.
Great breakdown. Show the full screen version of the clips. They look like thumbnails on our screens. Hard to see the detail.
I can upload a short full screen comparison with these clips. Will let you know!
@@BlaineWestropp1 Yes sir. You have my sub! Keep up the good work. Will be waiting.
@@BlaineWestropp1 Drop me a comment when you upload. Thanks bro.
@@percywillis thank you :)
@@percywillis I will definitely let you know.
So for the Sony grade, you change Slog3 to Arri log3 and then another transform from Arri log3 to Rec 709, pretty much adding the Arri footage nodes to the Sony?
Yes!
But there will be further adjustments that need to be made specific to the Sony to match it more closely. The transforms just allow the Sony footage to properly receive the grade that was created for the Alexa footage.
@@BlaineWestropp1 Makes sense, thanks for response!
sure thing!
hi! great video! i think you can improve your audio a little bit to be more pleasing
Thank you. I know it. Told myself I would never buy a mic, got a cheap mic for the fx3 that sounds much better but shot this one on the Alexa and was being lazy :/
I wonder if the highlight clip like this on the FX9/FX6?
I haven’t used either, I’d also like to know. My friend just got a 6, maybe I have him clip it and send me the file. Will report back.
I AM NOT A NATIVE SPEAKER AND I JUST ORDERED my fx3 10 minutes ago. after i sold my A73. is it right that you want say is FX3 HIGHLIGHT CLIPPING POINT DOES NOT CHANGE with changing the iso as we already know if we change iso higher then we can capture more highlight.
but sony does not in the cine ei mode. so i can take more highlight or darkside only with cine ei point.? is it right? so i can take more highlight with cine ei
not with higher iso. most important question is " is it really better to get fx3 than a7s3 to get more dynamic range? "
Hi. The clipping point in slog 3 does not change no matter what you shoot in, does not change with cine ei, or iso adjustments, but you can still get a nice image. Also, I believe the FX3 and the A7S3 have the same dynamic range 😊
The highlights are the biggest thing for me on this camera. I wish they rolled off a bit nicer.
Yep me too. But, I still think the camera is really incredible. I just try to be careful with highlights in the shot, but in most scenarios it’s great IMO.
Blaine you’re the best
Thank you Tony. Miss you. Come hang w me in nyc.
Brother a full screen A and B would have been fantastic
I’ve been meaning to post the full frame comparison from this footage. I’ll drop a link when I do, maybe add phantom luts and aces.
id love to see the same thing but with Blackmagic 6k pro or an Ursa camera
I’d love to see that as well. Funny you mention, I’m currently bidding on an OG bmpcc kit on eBay. I miss that camera!
@@BlaineWestropp1 i have my eye on an og myself
@@verebellus I had one years ago. I like how simple it is. Not a million settings, let’s you focus on what matters. Prores, and raw, tiny. Gotta experiment with it again.
If expose normally at a higher ISO you'll save more highlights and get noisier shadows. The higher ISO doesn't capture more dynamic range. It's like if you shoot ISO 2000 in broad daylight. You'll have to use a lot more ND than if you shot at 200 iso. You'll probably not clip any highlights but your shadows and midtones will be noisy as hell. But if you exposed at 200 iso you'd have a lot less highlight room but very clean shadows.
I guess that is hard to wrap one's head around lol.
Yes, but each camera handles it a little differently. In one way it’s easy and in another way it’s hard. The best thing you can do is to repeat this test w your cam!
Well maybe not repeat this video but repeat this video: ua-cam.com/video/czxj6xSCDZs/v-deo.htmlsi=t4Xk5SzHlcBxNxDx
@@BlaineWestropp1 I mean when you are dealing with dual ISO cameras it is different. But aside from that maybe cameras with inbuilt NR is something to consider as well.
I do agree with what you are saying in this video though. It is 100% accurate.
Dual native is different in that as the second iso is cleaner, but thinking about shifting the DR stays the same. But some cameras is doesn’t really shift. On Sony, the image changes when you change between native ISOs, but does not change when changing between any other ISOs.
What camera did you use to film yourself and your wife in the sofa? I read the comments and it seems that you say the FX3 (with color compressor) in one comment, and the Alexa in another comment.
For that shot I used the Sony
the skin tone Alexa give is more pleasing to eyes to me
Me too
You’re going to make me switch back to Sony, bro! 😂
Next video will make a LUT to really match them. Get an fx6 dude!
@@BlaineWestropp1 I can send you the Phantom slog3 to Arri 709 neutral, if you'd like
Thank you. I appreciate that. I think I have it!
@@BlaineWestropp1
I had the FX6. I like the FX3 more. It’s either an FX3 or an FX9 for me! Haha.
love the fx3. what about the 9 would you want over the 6?
This goes to show that the aesthetics of the image come from the person behind the camera and display transform (CST/LUT), rather than the camera.
Truth 🫡
Alexa is for narrative pieces, not the UA-cam vlogging or ESPN 4k crisp footage that Sony cameras produce. The FX3 is the ideal wedding videographer camera, but not the ideal film or documentary tool.
there are a couple alexas here and there at NFL games. the alexa is the prime camera for narrative and high end commercial work, beyond just its look. working with it, and the workflow, and the flexibility of the color in post is second to none. i did find a nice look with the sony when i brought it to italy: ua-cam.com/video/KrbMy-cd1Q8/v-deo.html ... i can only imagine if i brought the alexa! in the end of the day all of the cameras out right now are nice.
Have seen The Creator? Shot on fx3
IS IT THE SAME WHEN RECORDING RAW TO A NINJA. THOUGHT THIS COULD BE AN LIMITATION OF SLOG 3 NOT THE SENSOR
What do you mean? I think recording the the ninja is similar, just different codec but colors and clip point are the same.
@@BlaineWestropp1 ok but if we record ProRes raw and compare it to the slog 3 footage would/could this effect the clipping point?
I don’t think so but I cannot be certain without testing it. Someone else said the clipping point remained the same, which makes sense.
I don't know how much the FX30 differs from the FX3 but I haven't been happy with mine. Using a color space transform the skin just looks like crap against the Alexa. It's even worse using the default Sony lut. For whatever reason default WB settings on the Sony are just super pink/magenta. It almost feels like Sony just went, "hey let's make this as ugly as possible". Or maybe it's just not fair pitting anything against an Alexa.
When not shooting humans it's great. 1600-2500 iso is very nice.
Yep just a CST does not look good. I have 2 luts for slog3 that I made that I use as a starting point. Only time I’ll use a CST is to convert to another colorspace/gamma when a global look is on the timeline for a project using multiple cameras.
@@BlaineWestropp1 I tried Juan Melara's luts, Emotive Color, and the Phantom luts.
The phantom luts come the closest to actually looking like an Alexa, but its still not there.
Both were just balanced at 5600k, natural light coming thu windows. I was just expecting to get something more usable out of the sony without correction.
FX3 is a mini Alexa , Perfect camera to use without a rig.
It’s a great camera!
Why am I watching this with my little Pocket4K and no money in my pocket? :D Still enjoyed good vid :)
I want the pocket 4k!
@@BlaineWestropp1 Thanks haha :) Yeah I actually love it
It is fascinating that 12 year old ARRI sensor still can not be matched by any camera manufacturers ! Not Red, not Sony, Not Panasonic, Not BMD, Not Sigma FP, Not Z-Cam...Maybe we need to wait for 2030, until then I ll just stick to my old Alexa Classic
Really is quite incredible. I remember the first Alexa footage I ever saw on the computer years ago, not in the theater or on TV, but straight off the camera onto the computer… it’s magic.
no bla bla bla, straight to the business! i ll buy that for a dollar!!
😊😊😊
Blaine oh Blaine..man please let us have that LUT to grade our fx3 as the Alexa..please😭😭😭 (yes I have the Komodo x and the fx3😂🤝)
The luts are ready. Stay tuned.
Sould have used prores raw on the FX3 for a better comparison since you're pitting it against ArriRaw.
Is prores raw available via an atomos or something? Do you have experience with it.. would love to know more and try it out.
@@BlaineWestropp1 Yep, Ninja V will record ProRes raw. I personally saw no real benefits when it comes to latitude.
@@fredrikl5730 cool, would love to try it out. Can you record the full height of the sensor?
@@BlaineWestropp1 hi Blaine! ProRes Raw on the fx3 basically gets an 10bit 4:2:2 image to a 12bit 4:2:2, so color depth is much closer to the Alexa, but the subsampling won’t at all get to 4444. I use the ninja V on my fx3, I love it, I love the monitor, and the codec as well. Recording from the Ninja V your 4k image also turns to 4.2k. As a ninja V fan I’d love to see 10bit fx3 Vs 12bit raw fx3 vs Alexa!
Love ur vids bro
Hey Noah thank you. On the ninja, do you still get a 16:9 image? Does it use any more of the height of the sensor? If so, that would be what would make me more so want to test this. Also, do the clips look the same at a glance from the ninja? Are the colors the same to the eye?
Mind boggling… higher iso less clipping
✅
bought 3 alexas. put them in the dishwasher. one survived. put it in the microwave. exploded. lost 2 fingers. #bodypositivity
You have to microwave them first.
@@BlaineWestropp1 wisdom 🙏
Sony... Alexa...Sony ...Alexa...Day...Night...Dat...Night...Sony ...Alexa...
I actually prefer different on different setups. Meaning - it's all pointless. No idea why your clipping in such a low point on your Sony, mine clips at the very top. Clipping points differ from Arri or any manufacturer only because Sony calculates (as everyone else) calculates ISO values different. Not defending Sony I shoot on all kinds of brands currently have all Blackmagic cameras. Just saying what everyone knows by now - they all good.
Your fX3 clips above 94 in slog3? Regardless.. they do all look good.
Damn your woman looks thrilled 😑
She is