Great video, thanks. I feel like it's quite difficult for home theater enthusiasts to buy diffusers. There aren't that many options that are able to be purchased off the Internet, and some of these brands are a little hard to know who to actually contact.
Contact me! I should probably do a line card video to help people. But I am a dealer for Real Acoustix, Acoustics First, Artnovion, Acoustimac, and Snowsound.
Really interesting and looking forward to your 'with and without' measurements. It sounds like it's really important for the MLP to be in the far field area of any diffuser but what about the sound source itself? Can our speakers be close to the diffuser because if so, anyone with a small room could probably ensure their MLP is far enough away even if their speakers aren't.
Speaker doesn’t need to be far from the diffuser per say. But there would need to be enough space for the spherical wavefront to expand sufficiently to cover a large enough area on the diffuser. Think of a speaker like a flashlight. Think of the wall like a mirror. Imagine the flashlight aimed at the mirror but touching it. Now imagine applying a fresnel lens. As you pull the flashlight away from the mirror with lens the light reflected back into the room would be larger on area but weaker in brightness per sq inch.
When all the diffusion is in I’ll do some with and without. But…I think detecting the effect of diffusion in standard measurements is really tricky. Trevor Cox showed some example images of performance spaces. I had always been impressed until I learned they were hand drawn and not actual measurements. Showing a diffusion of the tail is tricky when it’s decaying rapidly. I would bet that to really show what is happening you would need to use a 3D impulse response measurement of the room. That is probably the best way to highlight it. If you all want to help find the rental of one, I would happily do the work. But the Iris system is well outside my budget for a fun toy.
@@PoesAcoustics Thanks Matthew. My room is full of as much hidden absorption as I can do. I've already noted GUD panels though can't see many UK suppliers. The GUDs seem to be QRDs but with individual wells split in some presumably defined pattern. I'll keep watching with interest to pick up some more tips on what options to consider next.
It’s the GUD standard. Contact me if you are interested. Your price through me is the same as if you bought direct from them. They have many options and I can work with you to get the right ones. I also have some ability to keep the price down because I can make one large order that I split shipping up on.
Probably too expensive, but might be possible to have them exported. Another good option to consider in UK is going to be Artnovion. I can try to put you in touch with someone in the UK if that would be helpful.
@@PoesAcoustics That would be absolutely brilliant if you could thanks Matt, I'd not actually heard of Artnovion until you brought them to my attention.
@@PoesAcousticshey Matt thank you for the great reviews I’m learning so much! I have a small room (13x12x8). I’m considering the GIK Polyfusor for the side wall (3ft from MLP) and top back wall (5ft from MLP). Do you think I’m sitting too close for them to be useful? If so what product would you recommend? I just want to open up the sound in my small room 😊
@@decaf77 polyfuser is just a polycylindric diffuser. It’s really better described as a sound redirecting device as it’s not a true diffuser. It doesn’t have much phase mixing. The biggest challenge with those is that their actual scattering bandwidth isn’t that high. But the positive is they scatter extremely well and they don’t have a particular far distance to achieve farfield. In fact because they don’t create phase mixing on the face there is no obvious transition from near to far field. So it’s probably fine to sit close but it’s not a diffuser.
@@PoesAcoustics thank you so much! I’m looking to improve my room (13x11x8). Would it be ok using GIK gridfusors on the ceiling and top of the walls? I’d be 5 feet away from them. I have broadband absorbers (5.5”) on the back wall and bass traps on 3 corners from floor to ceiling. My RT60 is 200-300
It would be great if you could ballpark the price of these things, so I know if they’re even close to being within my budget. Especially if you need to buy 8-12 of them.
Figure on $250 each at the high end. It would depend on quantity and current price of mdf. More expensive for nicer finishes. If you are interested please contact me.
@@joek6207 no it doesn’t. I get charged a package shipping rate so you can email me and we can work out a deal. If the order is large enough I can include shipping potentially. A rooms worth of acoustic treatments is usually between $500 and $1500 in shipping, depending on size and complexity.
@@PoesAcoustics okay. I’ll have to check my budget. These would be largely experimental because I’d be putting them on my backwall which is close to my head. Approx 12” or so.
You will be using all diffusers to handle the 1st order reflections? I'm using 4" of absorption (4x4)for that at the side walls, front wall, and ceiling. My room is similar to yours, just about 8ft longer or so. Also, I'm only treating the room for 1 sweet spot. Am I over doing it? Thanks.
It’s not quite that simple. The first reflection point of the left speaker on the left wall is diffusion. But it’s absorption on the right wall. The second row would have absorption for the left speaker left wall. Right speaker left wall would be bare wall. I am not a fan of absorption on the first reflections generally. But some people are. I can’t tell you if that is too much or not. I don’t have enough details. If it sounds good to you then don’t worry.
@@PoesAcoustics Thanks for the reply. I just watched your diffuser video. Good stuff. I should have mentioned this room is used 95% for 2-by listening. I can do 4.1 in the room for an occasional movie. I got some really good results with the treated front side and ceiling (1st order) treatments, along with full dirac integration. My front sound stage has just always been a weakness in my music listening. You've given me some ideas to fly with. Much appreciated. (Canton Towers, Onkyo RX-50 as a pre\pro, Rotel - 2-amp, SVS sub, amongst other pieces)
Hah I think one of the side benefits of the design optimization was that it actually looks pretty darn cool. A number of star wars themed theaters I've worked on had the same shape. I don't believe Richard is a diehard Starwars fan, I think its a coincidence, but I could be wrong. One of the best ways to handle theme theaters is to try to integrate the treatments into the design so that it looks like its simply part of the theme, while actually being a useful acoustic product. Otherwise the theme theater will compromise one for the other. Most compromise sound for looks.
Grimani prefers to use nonstandard terminology because he doesn’t find the standard terminology intuitive. I get it, but the “3rd” dimension is s fixed factor in diffusion (depth). 1D and 2D refers to the manipulated variable. Is it scattering in the horizontal or vertical, or does it scatter in both at the same time. The Diffusers I have are 1D diffusers but Grimani would call them 2D. However they actually do have some “3D behavior”. They also make a “3D” version. I will likely bring in some of those just to show people. For a less expensive option, the polycylindric diffusers are very good at the front half of the room. They meet Grimani’s requirement and can be had for cheap. Under $100 each.
@@TrueStereo- absolutely. The Real Acoustix GUD is available in both 1D and 2D diffusion. It’s the most efficient diffuser on the market. I highly recommend it and I used ten of them in my own theater. For lower frequency diffusion the well executed QRD’s are still king. Real Acoustix has very well made versions. What I don’t recommend are skyline style or the related. They simply don’t work.
They make a wooden and plastic version. Both can mount to the ceiling. The wood version could be screwed directly if you wanted. The plastic version can be clipped, glued, Velcro, or screwed. You could also use a grid ceiling system to hold them.
Great video with lots of correct info. Refreshing to see well a spoken and substantive presentation. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
Really really really need a follow-up video with Baseline before and after measurements of all changes
Tthe best one on you tube for me !
Are there any scientific paper or tests on these diffusers? Not being a grumpy sceptic, just interested in the subject matter!
Great video, thanks. I feel like it's quite difficult for home theater enthusiasts to buy diffusers. There aren't that many options that are able to be purchased off the Internet, and some of these brands are a little hard to know who to actually contact.
Contact me!
I should probably do a line card video to help people. But I am a dealer for Real Acoustix, Acoustics First, Artnovion, Acoustimac, and Snowsound.
Really interesting and looking forward to your 'with and without' measurements. It sounds like it's really important for the MLP to be in the far field area of any diffuser but what about the sound source itself? Can our speakers be close to the diffuser because if so, anyone with a small room could probably ensure their MLP is far enough away even if their speakers aren't.
Speaker doesn’t need to be far from the diffuser per say. But there would need to be enough space for the spherical wavefront to expand sufficiently to cover a large enough area on the diffuser.
Think of a speaker like a flashlight. Think of the wall like a mirror. Imagine the flashlight aimed at the mirror but touching it. Now imagine applying a fresnel lens. As you pull the flashlight away from the mirror with lens the light reflected back into the room would be larger on area but weaker in brightness per sq inch.
When all the diffusion is in I’ll do some with and without. But…I think detecting the effect of diffusion in standard measurements is really tricky. Trevor Cox showed some example images of performance spaces. I had always been impressed until I learned they were hand drawn and not actual measurements. Showing a diffusion of the tail is tricky when it’s decaying rapidly.
I would bet that to really show what is happening you would need to use a 3D impulse response measurement of the room. That is probably the best way to highlight it. If you all want to help find the rental of one, I would happily do the work. But the Iris system is well outside my budget for a fun toy.
@@PoesAcoustics Thanks Matthew. My room is full of as much hidden absorption as I can do. I've already noted GUD panels though can't see many UK suppliers. The GUDs seem to be QRDs but with individual wells split in some presumably defined pattern. I'll keep watching with interest to pick up some more tips on what options to consider next.
Matt what model is this specifically? The closest visual match on their site is the GuD PX which is a drop ceiling tile.
It’s the GUD standard.
Contact me if you are interested. Your price through me is the same as if you bought direct from them. They have many options and I can work with you to get the right ones. I also have some ability to keep the price down because I can make one large order that I split shipping up on.
They look like some nice kit, unfortunately theres not much available in terms of diffusers here in the UK at the moment.
Probably too expensive, but might be possible to have them exported.
Another good option to consider in UK is going to be Artnovion. I can try to put you in touch with someone in the UK if that would be helpful.
@@PoesAcoustics That would be absolutely brilliant if you could thanks Matt, I'd not actually heard of Artnovion until you brought them to my attention.
@@PoesAcousticshey Matt thank you for the great reviews I’m learning so much! I have a small room (13x12x8). I’m considering the GIK Polyfusor for the side wall (3ft from MLP) and top back wall (5ft from MLP). Do you think I’m sitting too close for them to be useful? If so what product would you recommend? I just want to open up the sound in my small room 😊
@@decaf77 polyfuser is just a polycylindric diffuser. It’s really better described as a sound redirecting device as it’s not a true diffuser. It doesn’t have much phase mixing. The biggest challenge with those is that their actual scattering bandwidth isn’t that high. But the positive is they scatter extremely well and they don’t have a particular far distance to achieve farfield. In fact because they don’t create phase mixing on the face there is no obvious transition from near to far field.
So it’s probably fine to sit close but it’s not a diffuser.
@@PoesAcoustics thank you so much! I’m looking to improve my room (13x11x8). Would it be ok using GIK gridfusors on the ceiling and top of the walls? I’d be 5 feet away from them. I have broadband absorbers (5.5”) on the back wall and bass traps on 3 corners from floor to ceiling. My RT60 is 200-300
It would be great if you could ballpark the price of these things, so I know if they’re even close to being within my budget. Especially if you need to buy 8-12 of them.
Figure on $250 each at the high end. It would depend on quantity and current price of mdf. More expensive for nicer finishes.
If you are interested please contact me.
@@PoesAcousticsdoes that include shipping to the US?
@@joek6207 no it doesn’t. I get charged a package shipping rate so you can email me and we can work out a deal. If the order is large enough I can include shipping potentially. A rooms worth of acoustic treatments is usually between $500 and $1500 in shipping, depending on size and complexity.
@@PoesAcoustics okay. I’ll have to check my budget. These would be largely experimental because I’d be putting them on my backwall which is close to my head. Approx 12” or so.
You will be using all diffusers to handle the 1st order reflections? I'm using 4" of absorption (4x4)for that at the side walls, front wall, and ceiling. My room is similar to yours, just about 8ft longer or so. Also, I'm only treating the room for 1 sweet spot. Am I over doing it?
Thanks.
It’s not quite that simple. The first reflection point of the left speaker on the left wall is diffusion. But it’s absorption on the right wall. The second row would have absorption for the left speaker left wall. Right speaker left wall would be bare wall.
I am not a fan of absorption on the first reflections generally. But some people are. I can’t tell you if that is too much or not. I don’t have enough details. If it sounds good to you then don’t worry.
@@PoesAcoustics Thanks for the reply. I just watched your diffuser video. Good stuff. I should have mentioned this room is used 95% for 2-by listening. I can do 4.1 in the room for an occasional movie. I got some really good results with the treated front side and ceiling (1st order) treatments, along with full dirac integration. My front sound stage has just always been a weakness in my music listening. You've given me some ideas to fly with. Much appreciated.
(Canton Towers, Onkyo RX-50 as a pre\pro, Rotel - 2-amp, SVS sub, amongst other pieces)
Im picturing darth vader walking behind one of these 😅
Hah I think one of the side benefits of the design optimization was that it actually looks pretty darn cool. A number of star wars themed theaters I've worked on had the same shape. I don't believe Richard is a diehard Starwars fan, I think its a coincidence, but I could be wrong.
One of the best ways to handle theme theaters is to try to integrate the treatments into the design so that it looks like its simply part of the theme, while actually being a useful acoustic product. Otherwise the theme theater will compromise one for the other. Most compromise sound for looks.
Gramani says “3D “ diffusers from seating area and behind. Hardly anyone makes a two dimensional diffuser… what is your suggestion?
Grimani prefers to use nonstandard terminology because he doesn’t find the standard terminology intuitive. I get it, but the “3rd” dimension is s fixed factor in diffusion (depth). 1D and 2D refers to the manipulated variable. Is it scattering in the horizontal or vertical, or does it scatter in both at the same time.
The Diffusers I have are 1D diffusers but Grimani would call them 2D. However they actually do have some “3D behavior”. They also make a “3D” version. I will likely bring in some of those just to show people.
For a less expensive option, the polycylindric diffusers are very good at the front half of the room. They meet Grimani’s requirement and can be had for cheap. Under $100 each.
@@PoesAcoustics can you recommend any models?
@@TrueStereo- absolutely. The Real Acoustix GUD is available in both 1D and 2D diffusion. It’s the most efficient diffuser on the market. I highly recommend it and I used ten of them in my own theater.
For lower frequency diffusion the well executed QRD’s are still king. Real Acoustix has very well made versions.
What I don’t recommend are skyline style or the related. They simply don’t work.
Will these mount on the ceiling?
They make a wooden and plastic version. Both can mount to the ceiling. The wood version could be screwed directly if you wanted. The plastic version can be clipped, glued, Velcro, or screwed. You could also use a grid ceiling system to hold them.
Show your home theater
Check my shorts. I did an update. Mess and all.