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Andrew, I have doing high end AV for 25 years. Your way of explaining XLR is the best and simplest I have heard. There is so much bad information out there, and u also manage to explain in an easy to understand-way for most people, keeping the most important technical and commercial facts. Greetings from Norway. ❤
I have been doing hi end audio and av for 40 years. That statement means nothing why, because it does not matter how many years you have been doing it.
@@GMitchell2012 I've been doing mid-range and low-end audio (hospitality, premier residences, intercoms) for under 10 years, and almost every project presents situations that push me to learn something new. So to me it matters because tomorrow me (ok say few yrs from now) will probably have a deeper understanding and better ideas than me typing this. Not saying it's the same for everybody, and would be curious about your point of view.
@@GMitchell2012 Its high end, not "hi end". And AV stands for Audio/Video - u do not need both. There where not much of high end Audio, nor Video in 1984 (40 years ago). And yes, my experience in the industry do matter. Have a nice day!
There are a lot of things I can live without, but a good subwoofer ain't one of them! I use huge Tannoys from the 60's and a sub still adds that sense of scale and effortlessness. I know modern speakers are 'fudged' better for deeper bass these days blah, blah but a good sub, not a cheap boom box, is still a great investment no matter how big the speakers are. I built my own years ago based on a design by the late Jim Rogers, who lived locally to me, when subs were not even considered by serious audiophiles. I later bought a huge REL and it's still alive a kicking. The more reviews on subs the better. Happy holidays and thanks for a great channel. 🙂
I know that many folks recommend running mains as 'small' speakers (even if they're big honkin' towers) whenever a sub is in the mix. And I used to do just that, with an 80 Hz crossover as per forum bro recommendations. Though that sounded decent at the main listening position (MLP), I had several nulls and boomy hot spots throughout the room. But several years ago, I was absolutely chuffed to bits to discover that: -Setting mains to full range and subwoofer channel to LFE+main -Having the subs come in at 60 Hz, -lowering the 'LPF for LFE' setting to 80 Hz, which is the lowest it goes. System default is 120 Hz, which at times sounds quite muddy even at the MLP, particularly when playing older DVD 5.1 mixes that pump frequencies as high as 120 Hz through the subwoofers, no matter what the system crossover setting is. -Lowering the sub trim from -4 to -6, since the mains are now putting out a lot more bass. ...solved all of my bass problems! As an added bonus, the transition from mains to sub just sounds so much smoother now. As in, the subs sound more like an extension of the main speakers, rather than being separate entities. It helped with movies, but _really_ improved stereo music. Plus, with the mains doing a lot more work, I get a ton more impact/chest slam in the upper bass range without it ever disintegrating into a muddy mess. I don't know how, but with the subs previously handling those upper bass frequencies, they simultaneously sounded weaker _and_ boomier. I swear, bass makes absolutely no sense. Also wanted to point out that my two systems are very different. One is a 7.2 channel setup with the LCRs and subs behind an AT screen in a dedicated room; the other is a 2.1 system in the living room. Yet the LFE+main setting helped them both out rather immensely. Not saying that it's for everyone, but good golly did it make a world of difference with my setups. For years I was missing out man! My only semi-concern is that with the volume cranked to irresponsible levels (which some movies absolutely require for maximum enjoyment and plot absorption), I see a ton of driver excursion on the main channels, which can't possibly be easy on the amplifiers and the drivers themselves. However, I haven't yet heard any distortion, so I'm just going to assume that they're all built to handle this.
subwoofer reviews are fun, because they produce the most fun part of the frequency :) having mains speakers that do full range is expensive and large, stand mount speaker and subwoofer solves that. if you have dsp in your system before the dac you can also play around with the crossover to the main speakers, so you can make the small mains speakers not sound small, that happens around 120hz, and you can go higher and get even bigger sound. there is a lot to this but that is a start so people can experiment and listen to what happens. larger the difference between mains speaker woofers and subwoofer driver the bigger the benefit from this.
For anyone watching, the SB17 is like using a monster truck to pick up a sheet of plywood at home depot. Its total overkill unless you have a movie theater in your home. The SB-2000 is more than enough power for movies and music in 98% of rooms.
Hi-Fi as such is overkill by definition (just like fine watches / wine / scotch / cigars / sports cars / extra-large SUVs / large houses / cameras / etc). Professional musicians or sound engineers or commercial scale sound system designers / integrators / installers, find it easy to settle for the mediocre for own home use unless they want an eye/ear candy despite scratching that itch at work. As I type this, my phone is in an empty candy bowl playing some deep house off youtube b/c I just didn't feel like firing up the big system - which itself isn't anything special. With that aside, NO driver sounds its best at max. excursion (nor does an amp, though class D is less so). There's a "goldie locks" zone between very approximately 10% and 70% of actual sustained power (never mind "peak" or "marketing" power) that a given component will sound its best - and the stated THD and THD+Noise values are usually measured right in the middle of that. We ain't getting that near 0 nor at stated max power, by a long shot. As for the rooms, target SPL plays a role as do target fidelity level and budget of course. As a rule of thumb, I _absolutely_ agree with you that there's a relationship between the room size and the lowest frequency cleanly achievable in it, but with proper budget we can cheat mother nature a little bit by having a matching set of subwoofers at the back timed to "eat" the sound made by the front subwoofers. In the idealized case that's equivalent to removing the back wall to infinity. The lowest this feasibly works with is 4 subs, and better with 8. The extra front subs just give maybe 2db extra each (i.e. borderline inconsequential loudness increase), they just even out the wavefront. The rear subs are sound eaters - they don't add any volume and actually reduce it (but they reduce by eating the bad stuff mostly). So you can absolutely take a college dorm room and make it sound tighter cleaner better - NOT deafening, with *eight* SB17 in it and a speaker array management system. Though I'd pick something a bit smaller than SB17 so it runs at above 10% power.
Subwoofers have never been and never will be plug-n-play. They just don't work like that. I have moved my 2 subwoofers probably a dozen different times in my TV room.
100% agree, and that's why QSC KS118 and the like, come with casters. J/K that's a stage/dj sub - but your point applied 100% seriously in my recent case. A local installer an overseas client had hired to assemble the system, had the 180deg phase inversion switch in ON position for the sub. When he yapo'd the system (yamaha calibration) & then played some bassy music, in minutes it'd RIPPED the woofers (spiders/surrounds) off philharmonic audio towers. I didn't believe till I got a slow motion video of them woofers moving through spacetime in all 4 dimensions like Einstein himself had never intended. There are many ways to configure subs can ruin a good main speaker sound (in this outlier case they managed to ruin the main speakers period) and perhaps one optimal way they can improve it.
Tbf, yours was the first proper review of the new SVS series. There's no guarantee the same would be true for any other review. Thanks for the great videos and happy holidays ❤
Really appreciated your answer regarding multi0le subs. We’ve had a HSU VTF15-2 for years and in different homes. When we bought it, multiple subs weren’t a thing. Now it’s on the narrow wall of a 20x14 sunroom made of brick, glass, and cement. Improbably, and after months of tweaking, we’re very happy the rest of the speakers. With the rear controls and pluggable ports, it works well when we’re playing 2.1 music or when we’ve launched the 7.1.2 experience.
I love iso-acoustic products as well. That was the first brand that really showed me that these types of products are not snake oil & can have a very audible difference/improvement. I can understand why some people may think that they are actually losing bass with some of these products. You can lose a lot of the vibration & rattle of furniture or whatever that is near by. Some may confuse this with bass
And transients. Besides relieving the pressure differential a sealed sub's motor has to labor overcoming at high excursions, a port is a transmission line, super-imposing an inverted AND delayed waveform onto the direct one. This can increase the amplitude of the frequency the port is tuned provided that frequency sustains for a couple of full cycles or more, at the cost of smeared transients and sawtooth frequency response as some frequencies get added while adjacent ones subtracted. It basically trades quality for "value", in the same sense of "value segment" as cheap booze (b/c they'd added sugar / vanila / glycerin / chemicals) that'll give one a bad hangover. In short, YES.
Set your subwoofer benchmark with Funk or Harbottle then bring on the wannabees:) Regardless good to see some subwoofer talk! Cheers everyone, all the best:) Rock on A & K.
Andrew, I hope you see this, after this video, you are now my favorite you tube audio reviewer. Everything you said in the SVS review a few days ago, combined with this video and your love for electronic music, you are now my favorite reviewer. I love Zeos too but you're setups are more in line with what I like visually. Anyhow I digress. Merry Christmas to you and Kristi.
My 3 previous attempts at commenting went on for several pages, talking about the greatness of SVS subs, as I'm rather long winded, I guess. I have a previous model, the SVS SB16 Ultra. It's INCREDIBLE! Yes, iIt's huge and can double as an end table in a living room., but they have smaller options available. This replaced an old JBL S120P II, and it's beyond anything I could ever imagine. Worth EVERY cent.
In all seriousness, I would love to see a review of some REL subs and, particularly, with some focus on the high-level input interaction with dirac live. For me, it's been a game changer but I also feel like I've only scratched the surface of what's possible.
Twenty percent of all the people you reach cannot be helped. They won’t allow it. Keep doing what you do. I’m on the Home Theater side of this hobby, but I do appreciate quality music. I’ve added your EDM artists to my Spotify playlist. Thanks. I’m rocking an older Yamaha Aventage receiver, Emotiva original towers and center and ceiling reflector speakers up front, and SVS angled speakers (forgot the name) as surrounds, with some small ceiling bounce speakers on top of those for the rear Atmos. Finally, I have two SVS PB3000 subs and that system combined with my 85 inch Sony TV has delivered the PERFECT home theater in my living room. I’m 57 years old, and after chasing this stuff for decades, I have actually achieved my dream system. I am shocked at how perfect it looks and sounds. I have reached a point where I can truthfully say, “I have no desire to tweak.” I’m done. You have helped be achieve this nirvana. I suppose I only continue to watch you because I want to keep abreast of the latest tech, I enjoy your point of view, and your wife is a smoke show. Merry Christmas, and thanks again for your service.
Subwoofers are important as well as they complete the full spectrum of sound in the lower octaves. Some like them to blend beautifully and seamlessly with their speakers and others like more impact. Still they are very relevant for review. Just my thoughts…
Great review as always. You two are my favorite UA-cam channel and even though this poor man can't afford most of the products you review, I still enjoy watching all of your content. This SVS sub seems awesome. Myself, being of more meager means, I'd be interested in hearing your opinion on the RSL Speedwoofer 10S MKII sub, or their 12" version. I am cobbling together a Frankenstein home theater system and have 2 of the Speedwoofer 10S MKIIs, along with my Sony STR-AZ5000ES (based on your review) and Klipsch RP8000MKII as fronts (based on your review), with Klipsch RP500SA MKIIs for height channels and a pair of Def Tech BP9020 towers as rears (which have built in 8" subs, so guess I have 4 subs in my living room), and a Martin Logan center channel speaker (don't remember the series but it was like $500, so probably not all that good). Like I said...a Frankenstein system, lol. But it sure rocks the hell outta my house. I still have more channels to fill with speakers on the sides, but figuring out space for speakers and stands where my fiancee won't throw a fit has been more difficult than expected, lol.
I recently added two SVS Ultra Evolution PB17 subs to my family room which already has two PB16 subs. Why would I do this??? First, l'll give a quick snapshot of what I am using: Ultra Evolution Pinnacles, four Evolution Elevations, Ultra Evolution Center, Ultra Surrounds, and Ultra towers for rears. The Pinnacles and elevations were a huge upgrade in sonic bliss. I had mentioned in forums that bass sounded better with my two Pinnacles than with adding the subs. I felt I was missing the mid tone impact and was a bit boomy so I preferred just the two Pinnacles. I took a chance to make use of my Marantz AV10 and Dirac Live with Bass Control to change this. And it worked! As Andrew says in this video you have to tame a bass system. I use REW to help me find the best locations. This takes time but so worth it. After that I use Dirac Live to EQ the system. For the first time I can listen to stereo with bass and it is hard hitting, tight, clean, non-boomy, and musical. Auro-3D sound amazing. When I want 2-channel only the Pinnacles deliver but now I am opting for stereo with bass because it sounds so good! And for movies.... forget about it! I feel it in the chest now and in a good way. My wife was blown away how much better it sounded. It felt more like being at a movie theater. Smiles galore.
Sounds like a really nice setup. One commercial type sub arrangement to try given that you have 4, that deserves to be more common in the self-built systems than it is, is to have two in the front (very roughly, at 1/4 room width from either wall, facing forward, and if sealed, directly backed into the wall) and the other two along the back wall as a mirror image for the front pair. The delay on the back ones is dialed in to be the "sound eaters" of whatever the front subs output (i.e. woofer to woofer distance over the speed of sound). That acoustically removes your back wall to infinity, eliminating the standing waves in the front to back direction.
I’ve always had cheaper subs and didn’t think there was much a difference between them and expensive ones. I finally got one that retailed new in the $500 range and was disappointed. That is until I got it dialed in (I don’t have room correction, so this was manual). NOW I feel it hitting harder and hear reacting faster, going deeper (who doesn’t like that), and being more accurate than my entry level subs. I’m not sure someone like my wife would notice the difference without it being pointed out, but I’m enjoying the change. That doesn’t mean that with my budget I’m going to run out and get the top of the line, but I do notice and enjoy the improvement.
Good morning A&K. Great discussion as always. Thanks for pointing me to the Arendal website for a deep dive on the timing question. I'm usually always around on Friday but take a break next week and enjoy the holiday - you deserve it! Enjoy the weekend and see you on Sunday.
Andrew, thank you for being the one reviewer that I trust. you got me hooked with your stunningly accurate review of my stinking,no base having dragon. every point you make is oh so true. It’s a cold hearted corporation that would make a product that I couldn’t pair with a better Bluetooth sub.
If you can localize where your sub is in the room than it's not properly place and or calibrate/tuned. A sub should blend in and basically disappear like well positioned front speakers.
Andrew please review a Rythmik G22, or any sub by Rythmik for that matter. I tihnk you would really love them. The bass is presented very differently than any of my 4 SVS subs. For science, man!
Coming from live audio, I wanted to touch on the concept of multiple subwoofers and why, in my opinion, one subwoofer is better for nearly all home theatre or hifi rigs. First, directionality is harder to discern the lower you go in the human hearing range. Second, the wavelengths of bass frequencies are long enough that you will almost certainly have phase coloration between multiple subwoofers if they’re more than a few feet apart. In the pro world on large concerts, often the subs are packed close enough to each other that they perform like one big subwoofer with no regard for stereo imaging because there are diminishing returns on directionality.
From a rattle standpoint, I'm with you; isolation feet help, or do they matter. Do they change the sound of a product, this is where I say, not so much.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews "not so much" is being very kind, unless the product's a turntable :) But with a high enough SPL at low enough Hz, everything in the room will rattle and chatter off shelves etc - needing isolation feet, adhesive pad cushions, museum gel, etc.
Andrew, andrew, andrew brilliant reviews all the time. In Africa we don't have much choice on audio equipment but SVS (& excellent backup service) is there. I'm more audio fanatic than home theatre, so i didn't know which, ported or sealed. Andrew your many past reviews, made choice so easy. Thankx too, to Kristy. ❤❤❤
One minute in and it's popped up, I'm not usually around this early. And a once yearly roundup of good subs wouldn't go amiss. Still, I agree with your assessment that limiting how often you review subs is probably the way to go 😂
Thank you Andrew and Chrissy for this great video answering questions. My question is about how the SVS 17 sounds at lower volumes. You mentioned 70db 100 DB or what about for example 50 dB or lower?
I'd love to hear Andrew and Chrissy's thoughts on this also. Because you brought up a question that's important even outside a given sub, any component will have a "Goldilocks zone" (as a rule of thumb spanning from 10% to 70% of the full sustained volume (not "peak" or "marketing" one)) where it sounds its finest. The stated THD and THD+N values are measured right in the middle of that (except where otherwise stipulated by standards). We ain't getting anything close to those stated figures if the piece is dialed up to 11 or if it's near 0.
I agree with you that sub placement is the most important factor about making a sub sound good. When it comes to sealed vs ported, I think its easier to design a sealed sub that sounds good than ported. Ports can add chuffing and distortion. I personally use a pair of JL’s, which are sealed.
@@dajikbatarang1 100% agree and ported inevitably & by definition means a transmission line (i.e. we're adding a delayed and out of phase original waveform back onto itself, tuning the delay such that it reinforces certain frequencies). It inevitably smears the phase / transient response by the transmission line length * speed of sound, and makes the frewuency response more haircomb shape as while some frequencies are reinforced others weaken. All that is to get a bit more low-end extension for non-transient base sounds (lasting a full waveform cycle or more). This is in a category of design choices tbat makes a speaker more content-dependent in that it'd sound a bit subjectively "better" for the $/size/weight for some content at the expense of being objectively worse for other types.
I never would of thought that's what brown note is LOL I was thinking it was more along the lines of a bad sounding note. Let's hope we never experience brown note 😂
Recently I added 2 Starke Sound Sealed 15" to complement a single SVS PB 2000Pro. I can produce 110 DB peaks in my 13x12x9 room. The Starkes are pretty basic but for a grand for the pair they produce very clean bass below 14 Hz in my room. Might be an interesting budget experiment for your room. I only added this because you're a subwoofer channel now. LOL
Looking forward to the video Sunday. I have been struggling to figure out how best to play/stream my music. Having grown up as an 80's child, I feel like I have been asked to repurchase my music collection several times over. . .Tapes, CD's, MP3's, streaming and now getting into vinyl (I put it off for as long as I could). I am primarily linked to the Apple Music ecosystem. However, I have a large collection of digital media that I have obtained through the aforementioned methods of music purchasing. Cant wait to hear your thoughts. Streamer, Mac mini, CD's or just stick with the trusty iPod. So many options.
I just watch and like for years. But thought I would comment on subs, I use an HSU sub with HPF for main and LPF for sub as it enlarges the soundstage and improves imaging in my room where full range towers do not. I need the bass from another place as I have placement limitations. WIth a pair of Magellan- Duetto 40th speakers, it can create magic for my music listening.
I haven't been able to watch a full live stream while it is happening so I always watch it when i can. If you make one, I will watch it. Merry Christmas !
During set up I wish more subs had a DSP function that measured the rooms bass response just from your main speakers first with no sub! Then only measure the subs response in the room and them blended the two. So the sub only adds bass at the frequencies needed. You don't over work the sub or stress the room. The only one I know of is Velodyne.
The trouble with that is that the subwoofer cannot measure the bass from where you are sitting, only from where it is placed, and most supplied microphones are rubbish below 70hz.
@@analoglooney I think the SVS are coming out with a remote mic. @Stephen, DSP just dials in the change (delay, equalization, phase correction etc) and it's great that a growing number of subs now have it built in. The measurement part comes from room correction, a separate function. I wish the industry converge on room measurement and correction workflow, with interchangeable / unified aberration and preset data format. You can have it today in a limited way, with REW (Room EQ Wizard, free - or Dirac Live), UMIK-2, and miniDSP 2x4 HD or miniDSP Flex 2x4 or a preamp or receiver that supports Dirac license level where an installer can upload a correction / preset file.
I was demoed stackable RELs. Basically 3 of the 3K subs on either side of Kef R3s and I have to say it was pretty amazing. I didn't expect the fact they were stackable to make a difference but when he disconnected to just the one at the bottom the whole sound stage collapsed in comparison to what was before and it wasn't even a song with that much bass. I still don't even know why. The frequency the RELs output should be lower than what you can pinpoint the direction of. I would love Andrew to do a review of a really expensive REL to see if there's any truth to the hype.
As a lover of music and movies with fairly eclectic tastes and limited budget, I do believe that the most cost effective way to get the fullest range and most satisfying performance is with a smaller quality set of main speakers paired with a sub. I personally use smaller two way floor stander and a single subwoofer. My mains can reach into the low 40hz range but like Andrew, I crossover well above that point. I crossover in the 65hz region and I find that in my room, I get a seamless blend to the ear and I come away with a very satisfactory full range presentation. I feel to get a similar experience with just speakers themselves, one would need to spend three times the money or more and you would still be handicapped by having to compromise between best placement for upper frequency and imaging vs best bass response. Even as a somewhat diehard tube and vinyl guy, I am a fan of subwoofers.
Good advice on the upgrade from the tv sound. Do not get into a complicated multi thousand dollar setup without trying a q990 or similar class setup first. Going straight for a corvette from a 90s corolla could be an expensive way to find out you ain’t about that life.
On EDM, I don't know if you have heard of the artists "Juno Dreams", but they have some cracking quality songs that really take you on that journey you talk about.
Kristi and Andrew, thank you so much for picking my question to read in class today. Don’t worry, I took no offense by Andrew’s answer to me/us regarding SVS and their decision to design a 17” sub instead of going straight to an 18”. I didn’t think it was harsh at all. I only wondered why, given that SVS has an 8” voice coil and already make the 16” sub, they wouldn’t just go up to an 18” as they surely will within the next five years or so. It would seem a logical choice given that research and development costs money and that’s a lot of work for what would seem a very small increase in performance. I’m not worried about the people who can’t be satisfied no matter what size sub they have and I’m perfectly happy with my dual 13 inch SVS subs I’m using. I guess it just seems like a missed opportunity for SVS. I did notice in their written response to you that it mimics their own statement about the 16” when it was introduced. To be clear, I’m completely satisfied with my 13” subs, i.believe SVS will eventually introduce an 18” sub and I just found it odd that they wouldn’t take this opportunity to do it now rather than later. I’m pretty sure nobody would notice the difference between the 16” and 17” but they might with a two inch increase to an 18”. Thank you again, I always appreciate your thoughts and information you give to us.
Way before our time, the Singer Corporation set out, and succeeded, to make a "you'll never need another" household sewing machine, that had everything, never broke, served generations of owners. That product very nearly killed the Singer Corporation b/c not only sales died, but also at some point people wanted "new" / "try something different from another maker" even if it wasn't as good. Only market entrants seeking to go from near-0 market share to double-digits in a couple years, will pull off a stunt like this. The Phoebus cartel literally fined its member lightbulb makers for any errant batch of bulbs that'd served more than 1,000 hrs. The SVS sealed subs with that level DSP and cabinetry and everything else, already are groundbreaking in a number of ways. Also there may be very significant logistical constraints for 18 inches where it's no longer legal to have one person handle it, and it throws your whole fabrication and distribution workflow.
What do you think about the sub crawl method of placing subwoofer? E.g. putting the sub in the listener position then sitting on the floor in different spots in your room and seeing where it sounds best. The best sitting spot is where you should put your sub. Hypothetically
Jay, laws of physics say that it must work. It can't not work. The sub must, however, be served red wine (white is acceptable in the case of piano gloss white finish) and a reasonable selection of soft and hard cheeses. But that's for a direct amp with DSP bypassed, as DSP can significantly alter phase and frequency response and delay, thus opening up many location options where a DSP-less sub wouldn't otherwise work.
I would love an RSL review. 10” and 12”. Your opinion of the value proposition vs. the “high end” subs. Your channel is the bomb. Merry Christmas, and Hook ‘Em!
38:39. I think "the audiophile" author is referring to cases where the recording has 'different kinds' of bass coming from either channel, so having one sub getting the same signal as your right channel and another sub on your left channel, results in a more accurate sound stage and so a more immersive experience? So if your goal is to reproduce the concert venue in a stereo system, maybe 2 subs can help.
Since you mentioned Moby and orchestral music, definitely check out his Reprise album which he did with string quartet and a bunch of guests stars including Víkingur Ólafsson and Kris Kristofferson. One of my favorite albums.
ported louder, sealed better (more controlled with tighter transients). That's true of a lot of speakers not just subs due to acoustic fundamentals of what a port does and what it inherently trades off in doing so.
great review I'm afraid now just got dual pb17 still new in the box , sold my pb-3000 but I have ported and you guys talking like this just for the SB17 WOW
Did you have to introduce any delay in the front speakers for the sub? Just curious because I had to do that with my RP1400sw. "Take a picture, Filter" is my timing test track I've used for a while.
Extra bass that arrives too late and that you (or the source being played) didn't ask for. Most ported subs in many conditions; better ported subs in some conditions; reflections; standing waves will get the boominess. Some of the more egregiously bad subs will also have audible port noise - it's basically a whistle, but so low a tone that it sounds boomy to some folks.
ya my friend is still trying to get me to sell my two SB 16's and get REL . he also wants me to buy 10000 cables . I love my subs .. for my theater they work great , i do not use them for music . I only use my towers for two channel and I have hi end equipment .but am happy with SVS >.
Thanks for answering my question about the SVS Evolution Tower + SB17 combo. One question about the Isoacoustics feet. Are you using them on the Titan’s? I like you are interested in mostly keeping the floor from scratching and possibly having the suction cup effect resist being knocked over by my 2 labradors.
Truth: Placement and setup has huge bearing on the performance of a sub. Another Truth: The performance of subwoofers varies drastically. A lot of forum bros chose one truth over the other, but I’ve found both to be pretty damn critical. As with many other things audiophile, blanket statements are often misguided and uniformed. Cheers
I agree with that. A lot of subs are just boom boxes. I use a REL Storm iii and I love it. It seems to blend well with almost any speakers I've played with, including Quad esl's.
I'll stick with my JL Audio Dominion d110. Gave the others a try. Between the build quality and tight sound that I was looking for for my two-channel. JL shined above the rest.
Also, since we have the subwoofer review, maybe a video detailing the new front wall from about a year ago. I’ve been wanting to know almost more than any other video y’all made this year.
Thank you Kristi for the WAF size reference :) Andrew if you can please review 2 x Goldenear Forcefield 30/40 to see if it achieves the same results experience as this SVS. I am just guessing due to their size you would need 2 to test. Or the SuperSub X or SuperSub XXL for a one vs one comparison. Wondering if the Goldenear hype is equal to reality.
I think that’s a smart thing to do, very limited reviews of products that people scream about the most, like subs, DACs, streamers that seemingly come out every single day, and so on. They’re a very niche product, most people who buy a sub, keep for a very long time, unless they bought a cheaper model and upgrade to a bigger “badder” down the road, but still. Same with DAC/Streamers, there’s been two generational updates to my BlueSound Node, and I have zero reason to get the new one, just simply none. It has HDMI, it has a good chip inside, it does everything that it needs to do well. So I totally understand doing it with a limit. I genuinely wish manufacturers stopped requiring using their specific products with their other products, like Bose and only using their Subs. It drives me nuts. That’s still one thing that makes me want to have my separate sound system back with an integrated amplifier and all. Just because I can choose whatever you want. I love my Bose Ultra bar, adore it. I hate the sub, it’s practically useless in any spot of my room. The SVS 3000 micro in my living room would run circles around Bose sub for basically the same price. In terms of SVS sub in question, and the brand in general, I hope they keep it up. They seem to be in a very good spot with a lineup of speakers and subs that are killing it. All they have to do is just keep it up and hopefully all the “customer service” issues are also in the past now. Loving this episode and hope everyone is having a fabulous Friday and an amazing holiday season! Go hug your family and friends and tell them you love them. We don’t do it enough as a human race. 😇
I think going into 2025 we're going to try (emphasis on try) and be even more selective about what we review in order to do less but make them more meaningful while clearing up time to focus on some other videos. I agree. There are just some products that are on a neverending conveyor belt of releases, and I'm so tired of it all and, frankly, burnt out. Hope you and the family are well!
@ quality over quantity has never been more important than it is today in USA specifically. And it’s not just HiFi it’s in every industry. The car industry is a dumpster fire, the HiFi, the grocery. All of them. I totally agree and understand your point and hope that we see more of that not just from you guys but overall in our lives.
Room dimensions and seating position relative to the walls and the speakers' placement within the room. Furniture doesn't really do THAT much to frequency response, but it can help with decay (RT60) times.
Curious question of your experience with isolation feet. What about subwoofers with dual opposed drivers? Their cabinets seem so inert that you can balance a coin on their edge on them that isolation feet would not be needed.
Historically, I find that my personal tastes lean towards sealed subs. It isn't a commentary on sealed vs ported, just a personal preference. I addressed this in the video, too.
A room speaker placement question. Does it matter that my rear surrounds are mounted high 8ft) and back (2ft) mounts that pivot speaker down and angled towards seating position 10ft away? Trying to optimize my surround effects.
Sorry for the off topic Andrew. Trying to choose between LG B4 and TCL QM8 as Christmas present for my parents. Which one do you think is objectively better? I was ready to pull the trigger in B4 till I've seen your video, despite being 250 € expensier in my country than the QM8.
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Merry Christmas. Enjoy the holidays, they are well deserved and that is regardless how many more videos you two make for the rest of 2024.
Andrew would like your thoughts on the Martin Logan Forte amplifier paired with some of your top fav bookshelves.
Andrew, I have doing high end AV for 25 years. Your way of explaining XLR is the best and simplest I have heard. There is so much bad information out there, and u also manage to explain in an easy to understand-way for most people, keeping the most important technical and commercial facts. Greetings from Norway. ❤
Thanks so much! I really appreciate it.
I have been doing hi end audio and av for 40 years. That statement means nothing why, because it does not matter how many years you have been doing it.
@@GMitchell2012 I've been doing mid-range and low-end audio (hospitality, premier residences, intercoms) for under 10 years, and almost every project presents situations that push me to learn something new. So to me it matters because tomorrow me (ok say few yrs from now) will probably have a deeper understanding and better ideas than me typing this. Not saying it's the same for everybody, and would be curious about your point of view.
@@GMitchell2012 Actually, it does. At least as far as your input via actual product experience. As with anything in this hobby, it is subjective.
@@GMitchell2012 Its high end, not "hi end". And AV stands for Audio/Video - u do not need both.
There where not much of high end Audio, nor Video in 1984 (40 years ago).
And yes, my experience in the industry do matter.
Have a nice day!
15:51 absolutely !!!
A preference for one product or sound doesn’t negate the existence for or value of others. Plenty of space for variety.
There are a lot of things I can live without, but a good subwoofer ain't one of them! I use huge Tannoys from the 60's and a sub still adds that sense of scale and effortlessness. I know modern speakers are 'fudged' better for deeper bass these days blah, blah but a good sub, not a cheap boom box, is still a great investment no matter how big the speakers are. I built my own years ago based on a design by the late Jim Rogers, who lived locally to me, when subs were not even considered by serious audiophiles. I later bought a huge REL and it's still alive a kicking. The more reviews on subs the better. Happy holidays and thanks for a great channel. 🙂
I know that many folks recommend running mains as 'small' speakers (even if they're big honkin' towers) whenever a sub is in the mix. And I used to do just that, with an 80 Hz crossover as per forum bro recommendations. Though that sounded decent at the main listening position (MLP), I had several nulls and boomy hot spots throughout the room. But several years ago, I was absolutely chuffed to bits to discover that:
-Setting mains to full range and subwoofer channel to LFE+main
-Having the subs come in at 60 Hz,
-lowering the 'LPF for LFE' setting to 80 Hz, which is the lowest it goes. System default is 120 Hz, which at times sounds quite muddy even at the MLP, particularly when playing older DVD 5.1 mixes that pump frequencies as high as 120 Hz through the subwoofers, no matter what the system crossover setting is.
-Lowering the sub trim from -4 to -6, since the mains are now putting out a lot more bass.
...solved all of my bass problems! As an added bonus, the transition from mains to sub just sounds so much smoother now. As in, the subs sound more like an extension of the main speakers, rather than being separate entities. It helped with movies, but _really_ improved stereo music. Plus, with the mains doing a lot more work, I get a ton more impact/chest slam in the upper bass range without it ever disintegrating into a muddy mess. I don't know how, but with the subs previously handling those upper bass frequencies, they simultaneously sounded weaker _and_ boomier. I swear, bass makes absolutely no sense.
Also wanted to point out that my two systems are very different. One is a 7.2 channel setup with the LCRs and subs behind an AT screen in a dedicated room; the other is a 2.1 system in the living room. Yet the LFE+main setting helped them both out rather immensely. Not saying that it's for everyone, but good golly did it make a world of difference with my setups. For years I was missing out man!
My only semi-concern is that with the volume cranked to irresponsible levels (which some movies absolutely require for maximum enjoyment and plot absorption), I see a ton of driver excursion on the main channels, which can't possibly be easy on the amplifiers and the drivers themselves. However, I haven't yet heard any distortion, so I'm just going to assume that they're all built to handle this.
subwoofer reviews are fun, because they produce the most fun part of the frequency :)
having mains speakers that do full range is expensive and large, stand mount speaker and subwoofer solves that.
if you have dsp in your system before the dac you can also play around with the crossover to the main speakers, so you can make the small mains speakers not sound small, that happens around 120hz, and you can go higher and get even bigger sound. there is a lot to this but that is a start so people can experiment and listen to what happens.
larger the difference between mains speaker woofers and subwoofer driver the bigger the benefit from this.
Never a dull review from you guys👍👍.
My primary go to audio reviewers.
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I appreciate that. Thanks for watching!
@@andrewrobinsonreviewsMy absolute pleasure
😂 happy Friday. I’m laughing at Kristi’s opening
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Always bringing the heat right off the rip.
Happy Friday!! The best part of the day! Keep em coming!
Hi Mister J!
Thank you for always tuning in, JDavis!
Always! Thank you both as well! This one was excellent.
For anyone watching, the SB17 is like using a monster truck to pick up a sheet of plywood at home depot. Its total overkill unless you have a movie theater in your home. The SB-2000 is more than enough power for movies and music in 98% of rooms.
@@quandt4847 I’d probably buy it if they came out with an SVS 17 Gravedigger edition
Hi-Fi as such is overkill by definition (just like fine watches / wine / scotch / cigars / sports cars / extra-large SUVs / large houses / cameras / etc). Professional musicians or sound engineers or commercial scale sound system designers / integrators / installers, find it easy to settle for the mediocre for own home use unless they want an eye/ear candy despite scratching that itch at work. As I type this, my phone is in an empty candy bowl playing some deep house off youtube b/c I just didn't feel like firing up the big system - which itself isn't anything special.
With that aside, NO driver sounds its best at max. excursion (nor does an amp, though class D is less so). There's a "goldie locks" zone between very approximately 10% and 70% of actual sustained power (never mind "peak" or "marketing" power) that a given component will sound its best - and the stated THD and THD+Noise values are usually measured right in the middle of that. We ain't getting that near 0 nor at stated max power, by a long shot.
As for the rooms, target SPL plays a role as do target fidelity level and budget of course. As a rule of thumb, I _absolutely_ agree with you that there's a relationship between the room size and the lowest frequency cleanly achievable in it, but with proper budget we can cheat mother nature a little bit by having a matching set of subwoofers at the back timed to "eat" the sound made by the front subwoofers. In the idealized case that's equivalent to removing the back wall to infinity. The lowest this feasibly works with is 4 subs, and better with 8. The extra front subs just give maybe 2db extra each (i.e. borderline inconsequential loudness increase), they just even out the wavefront. The rear subs are sound eaters - they don't add any volume and actually reduce it (but they reduce by eating the bad stuff mostly). So you can absolutely take a college dorm room and make it sound tighter cleaner better - NOT deafening, with *eight* SB17 in it and a speaker array management system. Though I'd pick something a bit smaller than SB17 so it runs at above 10% power.
@@ClemFandango72 My nephew has one with a Shark on it, if he sees a subwoofer with a shark on it, he's going to be wanting one.
Go back to weenie hut Jr. 😂
@ClemFandango72 haha. I'm waiting for the Bigfoot edition!
Kristi is in rare form! So Fiesty 😂 Don't fall for it Robinson!
Subwoofers have never been and never will be plug-n-play. They just don't work like that. I have moved my 2 subwoofers probably a dozen different times in my TV room.
100% agree, and that's why QSC KS118 and the like, come with casters. J/K that's a stage/dj sub - but your point applied 100% seriously in my recent case. A local installer an overseas client had hired to assemble the system, had the 180deg phase inversion switch in ON position for the sub. When he yapo'd the system (yamaha calibration) & then played some bassy music, in minutes it'd RIPPED the woofers (spiders/surrounds) off philharmonic audio towers. I didn't believe till I got a slow motion video of them woofers moving through spacetime in all 4 dimensions like Einstein himself had never intended. There are many ways to configure subs can ruin a good main speaker sound (in this outlier case they managed to ruin the main speakers period) and perhaps one optimal way they can improve it.
Tbf, yours was the first proper review of the new SVS series. There's no guarantee the same would be true for any other review. Thanks for the great videos and happy holidays ❤
Really appreciated your answer regarding multi0le subs. We’ve had a HSU VTF15-2 for years and in different homes. When we bought it, multiple subs weren’t a thing. Now it’s on the narrow wall of a 20x14 sunroom made of brick, glass, and cement. Improbably, and after months of tweaking, we’re very happy the rest of the speakers. With the rear controls and pluggable ports, it works well when we’re playing 2.1 music or when we’ve launched the 7.1.2 experience.
I love iso-acoustic products as well. That was the first brand that really showed me that these types of products are not snake oil & can have a very audible difference/improvement.
I can understand why some people may think that they are actually losing bass with some of these products. You can lose a lot of the vibration & rattle of furniture or whatever that is near by. Some may confuse this with bass
And transients. Besides relieving the pressure differential a sealed sub's motor has to labor overcoming at high excursions, a port is a transmission line, super-imposing an inverted AND delayed waveform onto the direct one. This can increase the amplitude of the frequency the port is tuned provided that frequency sustains for a couple of full cycles or more, at the cost of smeared transients and sawtooth frequency response as some frequencies get added while adjacent ones subtracted. It basically trades quality for "value", in the same sense of "value segment" as cheap booze (b/c they'd added sugar / vanila / glycerin / chemicals) that'll give one a bad hangover. In short, YES.
Kristi’s insight on UA-cam comments always makes me crack up 😂 You’re the best Kristi!!
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Set your subwoofer benchmark with Funk or Harbottle then bring on the wannabees:) Regardless good to see some subwoofer talk! Cheers everyone, all the best:) Rock on A & K.
51:56 “Shatvalanche” is still going! 😂
I told you, it's become a part of our regular vocab!
@@KristiWrightso funny 😂
More sub reviews!!! 😂 Happy Holidays!
Same to you, Harry!
I'll hold you to it if we do more. If I don't see you in the comments Harry, I'm gonna blame you 😂
Trust we live subwoofer reviews keep them coming.🙏🙏🙏
Andrew, I hope you see this, after this video, you are now my favorite you tube audio reviewer. Everything you said in the SVS review a few days ago, combined with this video and your love for electronic music, you are now my favorite reviewer. I love Zeos too but you're setups are more in line with what I like visually. Anyhow I digress. Merry Christmas to you and Kristi.
My 3 previous attempts at commenting went on for several pages, talking about the greatness of SVS subs, as I'm rather long winded, I guess.
I have a previous model, the SVS SB16 Ultra. It's INCREDIBLE! Yes, iIt's huge and can double as an end table in a living room., but they have smaller options available. This replaced an old JBL S120P II, and it's beyond anything I could ever imagine. Worth EVERY cent.
Yes it does - and comes with a built in invisible cat that likes to sneakily push everything off the edge of that end table. Museum gel can help!
Subwoofer optimal placement is a science in itself, room dimensions play a huge role in placing a sub for good integration
In all seriousness, I would love to see a review of some REL subs and, particularly, with some focus on the high-level input interaction with dirac live.
For me, it's been a game changer but I also feel like I've only scratched the surface of what's possible.
Feeling attacked about my washing machine anti vibration pads - still love to watch/listen to the 2 of you talking about products I'm interested in.
Twenty percent of all the people you reach cannot be helped. They won’t allow it.
Keep doing what you do.
I’m on the Home Theater side of this hobby, but I do appreciate quality music.
I’ve added your EDM artists to my Spotify playlist. Thanks.
I’m rocking an older Yamaha Aventage receiver, Emotiva original towers and center and ceiling reflector speakers up front, and SVS angled speakers (forgot the name) as surrounds, with some small ceiling bounce speakers on top of those for the rear Atmos.
Finally, I have two SVS PB3000 subs and that system combined with my 85 inch Sony TV has delivered the PERFECT home theater in my living room.
I’m 57 years old, and after chasing this stuff for decades, I have actually achieved my dream system.
I am shocked at how perfect it looks and sounds.
I have reached a point where I can truthfully say, “I have no desire to tweak.”
I’m done.
You have helped be achieve this nirvana.
I suppose I only continue to watch you because I want to keep abreast of the latest tech, I enjoy your point of view, and your wife is a smoke show.
Merry Christmas, and thanks again for your service.
Subwoofers are important as well as they complete the full spectrum of sound in the lower octaves. Some like them to blend beautifully and seamlessly with their speakers and others like more impact. Still they are very relevant for review. Just my thoughts…
i use svs iso feet on my subs , and love them , it really helps with stuff moving on the walls and floor . and does not hurt the output . get them
Great review as always. You two are my favorite UA-cam channel and even though this poor man can't afford most of the products you review, I still enjoy watching all of your content.
This SVS sub seems awesome. Myself, being of more meager means, I'd be interested in hearing your opinion on the RSL Speedwoofer 10S MKII sub, or their 12" version. I am cobbling together a Frankenstein home theater system and have 2 of the Speedwoofer 10S MKIIs, along with my Sony STR-AZ5000ES (based on your review) and Klipsch RP8000MKII as fronts (based on your review), with Klipsch RP500SA MKIIs for height channels and a pair of Def Tech BP9020 towers as rears (which have built in 8" subs, so guess I have 4 subs in my living room), and a Martin Logan center channel speaker (don't remember the series but it was like $500, so probably not all that good). Like I said...a Frankenstein system, lol. But it sure rocks the hell outta my house. I still have more channels to fill with speakers on the sides, but figuring out space for speakers and stands where my fiancee won't throw a fit has been more difficult than expected, lol.
I recently added two SVS Ultra Evolution PB17 subs to my family room which already has two PB16 subs. Why would I do this??? First, l'll give a quick snapshot of what I am using: Ultra Evolution Pinnacles, four Evolution Elevations, Ultra Evolution Center, Ultra Surrounds, and Ultra towers for rears. The Pinnacles and elevations were a huge upgrade in sonic bliss. I had mentioned in forums that bass sounded better with my two Pinnacles than with adding the subs. I felt I was missing the mid tone impact and was a bit boomy so I preferred just the two Pinnacles. I took a chance to make use of my Marantz AV10 and Dirac Live with Bass Control to change this. And it worked! As Andrew says in this video you have to tame a bass system. I use REW to help me find the best locations. This takes time but so worth it. After that I use Dirac Live to EQ the system. For the first time I can listen to stereo with bass and it is hard hitting, tight, clean, non-boomy, and musical. Auro-3D sound amazing. When I want 2-channel only the Pinnacles deliver but now I am opting for stereo with bass because it sounds so good! And for movies.... forget about it! I feel it in the chest now and in a good way. My wife was blown away how much better it sounded. It felt more like being at a movie theater. Smiles galore.
Sounds like a really nice setup. One commercial type sub arrangement to try given that you have 4, that deserves to be more common in the self-built systems than it is, is to have two in the front (very roughly, at 1/4 room width from either wall, facing forward, and if sealed, directly backed into the wall) and the other two along the back wall as a mirror image for the front pair. The delay on the back ones is dialed in to be the "sound eaters" of whatever the front subs output (i.e. woofer to woofer distance over the speed of sound). That acoustically removes your back wall to infinity, eliminating the standing waves in the front to back direction.
Anybody that didn't wait around for 50 minutes into the video for the "R" conversation missed out on a good but crude laugh! Enjoy the weekend!
Only the real ones stay until the end. :)
I’ve always had cheaper subs and didn’t think there was much a difference between them and expensive ones. I finally got one that retailed new in the $500 range and was disappointed. That is until I got it dialed in (I don’t have room correction, so this was manual). NOW I feel it hitting harder and hear reacting faster, going deeper (who doesn’t like that), and being more accurate than my entry level subs. I’m not sure someone like my wife would notice the difference without it being pointed out, but I’m enjoying the change. That doesn’t mean that with my budget I’m going to run out and get the top of the line, but I do notice and enjoy the improvement.
Good morning A&K. Great discussion as always. Thanks for pointing me to the Arendal website for a deep dive on the timing question. I'm usually always around on Friday but take a break next week and enjoy the holiday - you deserve it! Enjoy the weekend and see you on Sunday.
Glad you saw that section in the video. I hope it helps!
If you can do it, I would take the week off! You had great content this year and I hope you both have a happy holidays!
I would love to see the SVS 3000 and 4000 subwoofers get reviewed. Trying to decide how big is big enough.
Andrew, thank you for being the one reviewer that I trust. you got me hooked with your stunningly accurate review of my stinking,no base having dragon. every point you make is oh so true. It’s a cold hearted corporation that would make a product that I couldn’t pair with a better Bluetooth sub.
The brown note is real. I have 16 subs in my 12x12 room and can attest that it’s quite the ordeal to listen to music. Totally worth it though.
If you can localize where your sub is in the room than it's not properly place and or calibrate/tuned. A sub should blend in and basically disappear like well positioned front speakers.
Andrew please review a Rythmik G22, or any sub by Rythmik for that matter. I tihnk you would really love them. The bass is presented very differently than any of my 4 SVS subs. For science, man!
Coming from live audio, I wanted to touch on the concept of multiple subwoofers and why, in my opinion, one subwoofer is better for nearly all home theatre or hifi rigs. First, directionality is harder to discern the lower you go in the human hearing range. Second, the wavelengths of bass frequencies are long enough that you will almost certainly have phase coloration between multiple subwoofers if they’re more than a few feet apart. In the pro world on large concerts, often the subs are packed close enough to each other that they perform like one big subwoofer with no regard for stereo imaging because there are diminishing returns on directionality.
Isolating feet are a game changer to me, my whole room rattles when not using them. Isolating them is a night and day difference.
From a rattle standpoint, I'm with you; isolation feet help, or do they matter. Do they change the sound of a product, this is where I say, not so much.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews "not so much" is being very kind, unless the product's a turntable :)
But with a high enough SPL at low enough Hz, everything in the room will rattle and chatter off shelves etc - needing isolation feet, adhesive pad cushions, museum gel, etc.
Andrew, andrew, andrew brilliant reviews all the time. In Africa we don't have much choice on audio equipment but SVS (& excellent backup service) is there. I'm more audio fanatic than home theatre, so i didn't know which, ported or sealed. Andrew your many past reviews, made choice so easy. Thankx too, to Kristy. ❤❤❤
Lots of great questions. I definitely enjoyed this. Side note, but for some reason, I trust you the most over all other youtube reviewers, lol. 🙏
I will be here on the 27th!! Gotta be in the office. Have a Merry Christmas you two and to all out there
Man, if that sealed sub shook that much watching Fury, I can't imagine the ported PB 17 Ultra.
Oh, it would've probably been too much.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews Got the new PB 17, along with a pair of PB 16's. No regrets 🤣
Can't deny that SVS in one seeexy box, such a classic design. 😅
Looks epic in white
looks epic in gloss white, almost futuristic.
One minute in and it's popped up, I'm not usually around this early.
And a once yearly roundup of good subs wouldn't go amiss.
Still, I agree with your assessment that limiting how often you review subs is probably the way to go 😂
I think making them more of a special occasion type review is best, too.
YES, we'll be watching all holiday's! Happy Holiday's!
Thank you Andrew and Chrissy for this great video answering questions. My question is about how the SVS 17 sounds at lower volumes. You mentioned 70db 100 DB or what about for example 50 dB or lower?
I'd love to hear Andrew and Chrissy's thoughts on this also. Because you brought up a question that's important even outside a given sub, any component will have a "Goldilocks zone" (as a rule of thumb spanning from 10% to 70% of the full sustained volume (not "peak" or "marketing" one)) where it sounds its finest. The stated THD and THD+N values are measured right in the middle of that (except where otherwise stipulated by standards). We ain't getting anything close to those stated figures if the piece is dialed up to 11 or if it's near 0.
I agree with you that sub placement is the most important factor about making a sub sound good. When it comes to sealed vs ported, I think its easier to design a sealed sub that sounds good than ported. Ports can add chuffing and distortion. I personally use a pair of JL’s, which are sealed.
@@dajikbatarang1 100% agree and ported inevitably & by definition means a transmission line (i.e. we're adding a delayed and out of phase original waveform back onto itself, tuning the delay such that it reinforces certain frequencies). It inevitably smears the phase / transient response by the transmission line length * speed of sound, and makes the frewuency response more haircomb shape as while some frequencies are reinforced others weaken.
All that is to get a bit more low-end extension for non-transient base sounds (lasting a full waveform cycle or more).
This is in a category of design choices tbat makes a speaker more content-dependent in that it'd sound a bit subjectively "better" for the $/size/weight for some content at the expense of being objectively worse for other types.
I never would of thought that's what brown note is LOL I was thinking it was more along the lines of a bad sounding note. Let's hope we never experience brown note 😂
Keep up all the Amazing reviews. Your point of view is very important. The Kef R11 are in my living room because of your strongly worded praise.😊
The R11s are great, I hope they bring you as much joy as they did Kristi and I. Have a great rest of your day!
Thanks for your information on placement on sub woofers. Happy Holidays guys.
Recently I added 2 Starke Sound Sealed 15" to complement a single SVS PB 2000Pro.
I can produce 110 DB peaks in my 13x12x9 room.
The Starkes are pretty basic but for a grand for the pair they produce very clean bass below 14 Hz in my room. Might be an interesting budget experiment for your room. I only added this because you're a subwoofer channel now. LOL
Looking forward to the video Sunday. I have been struggling to figure out how best to play/stream my music. Having grown up as an 80's child, I feel like I have been asked to repurchase my music collection several times over. . .Tapes, CD's, MP3's, streaming and now getting into vinyl (I put it off for as long as I could). I am primarily linked to the Apple Music ecosystem. However, I have a large collection of digital media that I have obtained through the aforementioned methods of music purchasing. Cant wait to hear your thoughts. Streamer, Mac mini, CD's or just stick with the trusty iPod. So many options.
You go Kristi lol...love the opening comments
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Thanks you for covering the SVS SB17 before the others.
I just watch and like for years. But thought I would comment on subs, I use an HSU sub with HPF for main and LPF for sub as it enlarges the soundstage and improves imaging in my room where full range towers do not. I need the bass from another place as I have placement limitations. WIth a pair of Magellan- Duetto 40th speakers, it can create magic for my music listening.
Great unplugged! Thanks for everything yall do
I haven't been able to watch a full live stream while it is happening so I always watch it when i can. If you make one, I will watch it. Merry Christmas !
During set up I wish more subs had a DSP function that measured the rooms bass response just from your main speakers first with no sub! Then only measure the subs response in the room and them blended the two. So the sub only adds bass at the frequencies needed. You don't over work the sub or stress the room. The only one I know of is Velodyne.
The trouble with that is that the subwoofer cannot measure the bass from where you are sitting, only from where it is placed, and most supplied microphones are rubbish below 70hz.
@@analoglooney I think the SVS are coming out with a remote mic. @Stephen, DSP just dials in the change (delay, equalization, phase correction etc) and it's great that a growing number of subs now have it built in. The measurement part comes from room correction, a separate function. I wish the industry converge on room measurement and correction workflow, with interchangeable / unified aberration and preset data format.
You can have it today in a limited way, with REW (Room EQ Wizard, free - or Dirac Live), UMIK-2, and miniDSP 2x4 HD or miniDSP Flex 2x4 or a preamp or receiver that supports Dirac license level where an installer can upload a correction / preset file.
Should be around on the 27th ok, keep em coming😂😂
I was demoed stackable RELs. Basically 3 of the 3K subs on either side of Kef R3s and I have to say it was pretty amazing. I didn't expect the fact they were stackable to make a difference but when he disconnected to just the one at the bottom the whole sound stage collapsed in comparison to what was before and it wasn't even a song with that much bass. I still don't even know why. The frequency the RELs output should be lower than what you can pinpoint the direction of. I would love Andrew to do a review of a really expensive REL to see if there's any truth to the hype.
As a lover of music and movies with fairly eclectic tastes and limited budget, I do believe that the most cost effective way to get the fullest range and most satisfying performance is with a smaller quality set of main speakers paired with a sub. I personally use smaller two way floor stander and a single subwoofer. My mains can reach into the low 40hz range but like Andrew, I crossover well above that point. I crossover in the 65hz region and I find that in my room, I get a seamless blend to the ear and I come away with a very satisfactory full range presentation. I feel to get a similar experience with just speakers themselves, one would need to spend three times the money or more and you would still be handicapped by having to compromise between best placement for upper frequency and imaging vs best bass response. Even as a somewhat diehard tube and vinyl guy, I am a fan of subwoofers.
I think sub reviews have been the only thing missing on ur channel. They are all so different in character, I love getting as many opinions as i can.
Good advice on the upgrade from the tv sound. Do not get into a complicated multi thousand dollar setup without trying a q990 or similar class setup first. Going straight for a corvette from a 90s corolla could be an expensive way to find out you ain’t about that life.
On EDM, I don't know if you have heard of the artists "Juno Dreams", but they have some cracking quality songs that really take you on that journey you talk about.
Good morning Kristi and Andrew, Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays ✌️
Morning!
Same to you! Thank you for watching!
Kristi and Andrew, thank you so much for picking my question to read in class today. Don’t worry, I took no offense by Andrew’s answer to me/us regarding SVS and their decision to design a 17” sub instead of going straight to an 18”. I didn’t think it was harsh at all. I only wondered why, given that SVS has an 8” voice coil and already make the 16” sub, they wouldn’t just go up to an 18” as they surely will within the next five years or so. It would seem a logical choice given that research and development costs money and that’s a lot of work for what would seem a very small increase in performance. I’m not worried about the people who can’t be satisfied no matter what size sub they have and I’m perfectly happy with my dual 13 inch SVS subs I’m using. I guess it just seems like a missed opportunity for SVS. I did notice in their written response to you that it mimics their own statement about the 16” when it was introduced. To be clear, I’m completely satisfied with my 13” subs, i.believe SVS will eventually introduce an 18” sub and I just found it odd that they wouldn’t take this opportunity to do it now rather than later. I’m pretty sure nobody would notice the difference between the 16” and 17” but they might with a two inch increase to an 18”. Thank you again, I always appreciate your thoughts and information you give to us.
Way before our time, the Singer Corporation set out, and succeeded, to make a "you'll never need another" household sewing machine, that had everything, never broke, served generations of owners. That product very nearly killed the Singer Corporation b/c not only sales died, but also at some point people wanted "new" / "try something different from another maker" even if it wasn't as good. Only market entrants seeking to go from near-0 market share to double-digits in a couple years, will pull off a stunt like this. The Phoebus cartel literally fined its member lightbulb makers for any errant batch of bulbs that'd served more than 1,000 hrs.
The SVS sealed subs with that level DSP and cabinetry and everything else, already are groundbreaking in a number of ways. Also there may be very significant logistical constraints for 18 inches where it's no longer legal to have one person handle it, and it throws your whole fabrication and distribution workflow.
What do you think about the sub crawl method of placing subwoofer? E.g. putting the sub in the listener position then sitting on the floor in different spots in your room and seeing where it sounds best. The best sitting spot is where you should put your sub. Hypothetically
Something I’ve wondered but never asked, might be a silly question; are you supposed to put the sub on the sofa or move the sofa out of the way?
Jay, laws of physics say that it must work. It can't not work. The sub must, however, be served red wine (white is acceptable in the case of piano gloss white finish) and a reasonable selection of soft and hard cheeses. But that's for a direct amp with DSP bypassed, as DSP can significantly alter phase and frequency response and delay, thus opening up many location options where a DSP-less sub wouldn't otherwise work.
I would love an RSL review. 10” and 12”. Your opinion of the value proposition vs. the “high end” subs. Your channel is the bomb. Merry Christmas, and Hook ‘Em!
Very happy with more subwoofer reviews, more info helps when looking around. Please have the Kali WS 6.2 as the bext contender for a video.
38:39.
I think "the audiophile" author is referring to cases where the recording has 'different kinds' of bass coming from either channel, so having one sub getting the same signal as your right channel and another sub on your left channel, results in a more accurate sound stage and so a more immersive experience?
So if your goal is to reproduce the concert venue in a stereo system, maybe 2 subs can help.
Since you mentioned Moby and orchestral music, definitely check out his Reprise album which he did with string quartet and a bunch of guests stars including Víkingur Ólafsson and Kris Kristofferson. One of my favorite albums.
I would like to see a comparison between the SVS SB 17 vs SVS PB 17 to see which one sounds better.
ported louder, sealed better (more controlled with tighter transients). That's true of a lot of speakers not just subs due to acoustic fundamentals of what a port does and what it inherently trades off in doing so.
Thanks for the belly laugh opening Kristi, really needed that today ;)
great review I'm afraid now just got dual pb17 still new in the box , sold my pb-3000 but I have ported and you guys talking like this just for the SB17 WOW
It looks like you typically go with a ported design. What about them do you like?
Not sure if you’ve had the Klipsch 16” in.If you have how do these compare?Would it be an upgrade to get the SVS?
Did you have to introduce any delay in the front speakers for the sub? Just curious because I had to do that with my RP1400sw. "Take a picture, Filter" is my timing test track I've used for a while.
What is boominess? Also would you pair this with the 800 diamonds or the lascalas?
Extra bass that arrives too late and that you (or the source being played) didn't ask for. Most ported subs in many conditions; better ported subs in some conditions; reflections; standing waves will get the boominess. Some of the more egregiously bad subs will also have audible port noise - it's basically a whistle, but so low a tone that it sounds boomy to some folks.
Do the REL HT/1510 Predator next, I love my pair!
Going to have to google that one, as I am not familiar with it.
ya my friend is still trying to get me to sell my two SB 16's and get REL . he also wants me to buy 10000 cables . I love my subs .. for my theater they work great , i do not use them for music . I only use my towers for two channel and I have hi end equipment .but am happy with SVS >.
Thanks for answering my question about the SVS Evolution Tower + SB17 combo. One question about the Isoacoustics feet. Are you using them on the Titan’s? I like you are interested in mostly keeping the floor from scratching and possibly having the suction cup effect resist being knocked over by my 2 labradors.
Truth: Placement and setup has huge bearing on the performance of a sub.
Another Truth: The performance of subwoofers varies drastically.
A lot of forum bros chose one truth over the other, but I’ve found both to be pretty damn critical. As with many other things audiophile, blanket statements are often misguided and uniformed.
Cheers
I agree with that. A lot of subs are just boom boxes. I use a REL Storm iii and I love it. It seems to blend well with almost any speakers I've played with, including Quad esl's.
If you do more sub reviews, I'd be thinking roundups. Three or four subs at a time. Get more views and keep sub reviews on a leash.
“Massage your bass notes” - is that the technical term? 😆
It must be - because usually it's the other way around, my bass notes massage me :)
I'll stick with my JL Audio Dominion d110. Gave the others a try. Between the build quality and tight sound that I was looking for for my two-channel. JL shined above the rest.
Also, since we have the subwoofer review, maybe a video detailing the new front wall from about a year ago. I’ve been wanting to know almost more than any other video y’all made this year.
Yes, you need to review subwoofers and help us learn how to set them up!
I've done two videos on that already:
General how-to: ua-cam.com/video/2HUOct0BGYM/v-deo.html
EQ how-to: ua-cam.com/video/eUreWt7Zqsc/v-deo.html
awesome awesome vid. I hope you get to review popular old models too which is cheaper than the new models.
Thank you Kristi for the WAF size reference :) Andrew if you can please review 2 x Goldenear Forcefield 30/40 to see if it achieves the same results experience as this SVS. I am just guessing due to their size you would need 2 to test. Or the SuperSub X or SuperSub XXL for a one vs one comparison. Wondering if the Goldenear hype is equal to reality.
I think that’s a smart thing to do, very limited reviews of products that people scream about the most, like subs, DACs, streamers that seemingly come out every single day, and so on. They’re a very niche product, most people who buy a sub, keep for a very long time, unless they bought a cheaper model and upgrade to a bigger “badder” down the road, but still. Same with DAC/Streamers, there’s been two generational updates to my BlueSound Node, and I have zero reason to get the new one, just simply none. It has HDMI, it has a good chip inside, it does everything that it needs to do well. So I totally understand doing it with a limit. I genuinely wish manufacturers stopped requiring using their specific products with their other products, like Bose and only using their Subs. It drives me nuts. That’s still one thing that makes me want to have my separate sound system back with an integrated amplifier and all. Just because I can choose whatever you want. I love my Bose Ultra bar, adore it. I hate the sub, it’s practically useless in any spot of my room. The SVS 3000 micro in my living room would run circles around Bose sub for basically the same price.
In terms of SVS sub in question, and the brand in general, I hope they keep it up. They seem to be in a very good spot with a lineup of speakers and subs that are killing it. All they have to do is just keep it up and hopefully all the “customer service” issues are also in the past now. Loving this episode and hope everyone is having a fabulous Friday and an amazing holiday season! Go hug your family and friends and tell them you love them. We don’t do it enough as a human race. 😇
That last line is so true. Ya got me, Vadym 🥲
We love having you a part of this world!
@KristiWright awe thank you! That’s so sweet of you! Hope you are well ma’am! 💐
I think going into 2025 we're going to try (emphasis on try) and be even more selective about what we review in order to do less but make them more meaningful while clearing up time to focus on some other videos. I agree. There are just some products that are on a neverending conveyor belt of releases, and I'm so tired of it all and, frankly, burnt out. Hope you and the family are well!
@ quality over quantity has never been more important than it is today in USA specifically. And it’s not just HiFi it’s in every industry. The car industry is a dumpster fire, the HiFi, the grocery. All of them. I totally agree and understand your point and hope that we see more of that not just from you guys but overall in our lives.
Do you know what causes that 40 Hz dip in your room is it from furniture or just the shape of the space?
Room dimensions and seating position relative to the walls and the speakers' placement within the room. Furniture doesn't really do THAT much to frequency response, but it can help with decay (RT60) times.
@ thanks for the reply I love your videos they’re always very informative and have extremely high production values
Seasons Greetings Kristi and Andrew
Thank you, Daniel! We hope you have a great holiday. Thanks so much for being a member!
Same to you, Daniel! Thank you for watching.
Curious question of your experience with isolation feet. What about subwoofers with dual opposed drivers? Their cabinets seem so inert that you can balance a coin on their edge on them that isolation feet would not be needed.
This SVS sub you reviewed appears to be the sealed model. Does your room respond better to a sealed sub as opposed to ported?
Historically, I find that my personal tastes lean towards sealed subs. It isn't a commentary on sealed vs ported, just a personal preference. I addressed this in the video, too.
A room speaker placement question.
Does it matter that my rear surrounds are mounted high 8ft) and back (2ft) mounts that pivot speaker down and angled towards seating position 10ft away? Trying to optimize my surround effects.
Am happy you broke your rule😅. We want more subs😅😂
Sorry for the off topic Andrew. Trying to choose between LG B4 and TCL QM8 as Christmas present for my parents. Which one do you think is objectively better? I was ready to pull the trigger in B4 till I've seen your video, despite being 250 € expensier in my country than the QM8.
Always love another vid from the Robinsons 💥👍🏻
I'm very happy with my Klipsch F300 towers and two SVS 1000 subs.
That's great!