These sequence of scenes were HEAVILY discussed over the last few years between book readers. Would they actually lean into Egwene's torture? Egwene is now a captured slave who is treated as a pet. WoT show leaned in HARD on the torture and breaking of Egwene and they did it VERY well.
The a'dam is the bitch here. Unless you get it off or you're a complete psychopath that loves or is immune to pain, surrender is inevitable and only a matter of time. If you try to hit back you not only fail to hurt anyone but you get hurt twice as much than if you actually hurt someone. If you even believe you can use something as a weapon you get hurt. It's a no-win situation for any normal person.
still wondering why they let Eqwene "keep" her name in the show version. In the book it was even worse because she renamed Egwene "Tuli" and treated her like some new puppy dog she had to house break and she talked to her the same way people talk sweetly to a dog that has misbehaved. IMO the book was way more psychologically torturous than they did it in the show. Still the show did a good job of making it physically agonizing with some of the psychological damage that would come from pain every time you thought of misbehaving, was just the added in being talked to like you were far less than a human that made the book worse.
Madeleine's portrayal of Egwene in this episode was Emmy-worthy imo. It's probably the most powerful performance in the show so far and that's saying something given Nynaeve's arches scene and Lan mourning the dead Warder in season one. The acting in this show overall deserves more widespread credit honestly. The whole cast is killing it 👏 On Moiraine, as frustrating as she is this season, I love the moral dilemma her character embodies. Working for the good of the individual vs. working for the good of many. Moiraine chooses the latter every time, even if it comes at a personal cost to the people close to her. I don't doubt that she cares for her family, Lan, and Rand, but she believes that sacrificing the temporary good of a few to procure possible permanent victory over the Dark One is worth it. Whether or not people agree with this stance is going to be mixed, but it does bring up an interesting point of discussion: if treating individual people like Moiraine does will bring about a greater good for all people in the end, does that fully justify the behavior?
Why was Moiraine nasty to her sister? Without book spoilers, Moiraine hasn't slept in literal days. The literal weight of saving the world is on her shoulders. She couldn't go to her dying father because she was hunting for the Dragon Reborn. She can't tell her sister that 1. because this knowledge dangerous to her family 2, any member of her family could be a Dark Friend. So she can't answer her sister and she's exhausted. This shows how much Moiraine has sacrificed by devoting her life to the cause of fighting The Dark and protecting Rand. Now she is powerless, friendless, and she thinks she is losing. Under those conditions she isn't being evil by freezing her sister out, she is trying to protect her.
Add to that she is in the constant pain of feeling the source and not being able to touch it. She is constantly thinking about unaliving herself and the only thing that prevents that is knowing that she has a part to play in defeating the dark one and saving the world. Sandwiches and tea are not only irrelevant, but distracting...memories of normalcy she can't allow herself to feel or else be swept up. If she loses focus, it's over.
@@FinneasAF I think it is easy to miss the double meaning of Moiraine offering Logain a knife to end himself in trade for teaching Rand and when she said "I know how much you want this..." because she wants it just as much. But it was a scene that would be easy to miss for nonbook readers if you weren't looking for the double meanings. Sometimes things like that go by and you catch them on the second viewing.
@@mandyviv57 I think it would be more dramatic if Moiraine thought her sister was a possible Darkfriend and it ends up being her sweet nephew. That would be a twist for nonbook readers to enjoy.
They way they show the differences between Elayne and Nynaeve's personalities is really spot on. Nynaeve's first reaction is always anger, and Elayne is always smoothing things over.
I'm unconvinced that Ishamael was ever in Rand's dreams. We saw in last episode that you can imitate people and create replicas of people in the dream world... and when we first meet Selene, she asks Rand "another nightmare?"
I thought so too for a while, but on rewatch I’ve noticed Ishy flickers a little because he’s not got full control of the world of dreams. Would Lanfear keep her version flickering as well? She’s certainly clever enough. But I think she just allowed him in to Rand’s dream again to prove a point. Maybe we’ll see in the next forsaken interaction 🤷♂️
@@pudder68 Hes still not as good as Lanfear, whenever we see Ishy in the dream world (when it isnt his dream, like the first meeting between L + I) he's flickering, but Lanfear is always consistent when we see her
I think what Egwene did was realize that when she escapes and gets her revenge, it won't be by hitting Renna with a jug. Physical attacks will never work, and she realized that the jug is not a weapon. She didn't break, she shifted her mindset. Or at least this is what I want to believe.
For book readers, the second the Seanchan were revealed at the very end of season 1, this episode, this episode is what we were thinking about. The preview seemed to show a one-episode-solution and that would have done a great disservice to the character and the plot line. Rafe really delivered with this episode. Maddy really, really delivered. Awesome. Only a person who is intimately associated with the books (Rafe) could have pulled this episode off with this kind depth. The payoff is gonna blow your mind, I promise. One of Egwene's superpowers is figuring things out that other people don't see. Can't wait for next week's episode!
Especially the way she looked at Renna after burning the tree down... I was like Renna just revealed something to Egwene and did not know it (non book reader).
Damane are animals to be trained and controlled, they treat them like pets. It happens to Egwene in the books, they nailed the pain. But she is molded in this episode for the future.
I think the Renna thing is much worse than her being a sociopath. As far as I am concerned, she does not even deem what she is doing to be anything but the right thing to do, likely because they were told from birth that this is what you are supposed to do. Which to me is even worse than Renna specifically being a sociopath, because it basically means any and all Sul'dam inherently believe that they are doing a nice/good/righteous thing.
Exactly. The Seanchan way is to see Damane as supossed to be leashed and the Aes Sedai way is wrong. She is genuinly seeing what she is doing to Egwene as the right thing to do since no woman is meant to wield that power on her own. For thousands of years, this has been their way and in Rennas eyes, that is the way it should be. She never takes pleasure in punishing Egwene. She is breaking her in like a wild horse. Bending her to Rennas will, cause in her world that is the right and safe way to use the One Power.
I feel like boredom might just be Ishamael's primary motivation 😂 Also on Mat: part of his whole character is that more than any of the others he doesn't *want* to be involved in any of this stuff and just wants to go do his own thing and live a fun casual life, but fate keeps pulling him in
“What if you think you’re helping somebody by hurting them?” Addison right on the money. The Seanchan culture believes at their core that being a Domane is best for channellers
i would have been meditating heavily to convince myself that bashing her in the head would actually be helping. i kinda wish we would have seen her try that
To understand Moiraine's (and to an extent, Lan's) motivations here, we must understand that the mission is everything to her. She has devoted her entire life to finding the Dragon Reborn and preparing him for the Last Battle. In a way, I think of her behavior here similar to Batman in that she's willing to have everyone despise her to protect the secret of the Dragon Reborn and to help Rand win the Last Battle. They are massively out-gunned and telling one wrong person could irrevocably destroy their world forever.
Great point with batman comparison. Moiraine really is giving brooding/tortured soul with the fate of humanity on her hands vibes. Very much how Bruce operates lol.
Book reader here and came across your channel today. Love that you are enjoying, some of my friends and coworkers have started watching it and are LOVING it. There is a lot of foreshadowing in the books and the showrunners are doing that as well, little things you mention have long term implications later on. Good eye on stuff and really enjoyed you all's reactions!
Addison & Carianna getting up out of their seats when Renna poured the water on the floor was all of us. Brandon - I hated seeing how they killed Brother Patchy too my dude, respect
@@edn Nynaeves trials were really tough, but this was next level. The slow breaking of her to the point where she finally realises that she has become tamed after being so vehemently resilient at first was perfectly filmed and acted, all in a small bare cell with a jug of water. She was broken by a sul'dam who has done this many times before and all of her efforts to resist were worth nothing. The final moments though show that despite being broken, she still has some strength inside to try resisting in other ways.
@@ednI definitely compared this week’s episode to episode 3 in terms of trauma and this one beats it by far. Those torture scenes were painful to watch.
@@ednI think you need some book readers to go over the comments to remove spoilers before y'all read them. You'll likely get lots of fans as volunteers who'll likely do it for the love of your pure reactions.
The water was a metaphore for control. The Suldame broke her spirit and through the pouring of water symbolised handing over control. The control by the suldame to pour it away hammered home the brutality of that lesson. Such a good episode.
@LeeTurnock-zy2dg I also think the water was a metaphor for the ability to channel. When Egwene poured the water into the cup, she essentially poured (gave) Renna her channel powers.
I love that the show exploits the Yellow Ajah's knowledge of the human body to show some gruesome stuff they can do while fighting. Because yeah... Once you know how a body fits together, you can make it so it doesn't...
Yesss that was awesome and so smart. Kinda reminded me of a part from this manga/anime called Tokyo Ghoul where one character says to an enemy "There are 206 bones in the human body... and I'm going to break exactly half of yours," except Ryma didnt stop at half 😳
I LOVE your reactions to the show and look forward to seeing them every week. Being a huge WOT fan who have read the books multiple times, I appreciate the humor you all add to the reactions. I'm REALLY looking forward to your reaction to this episode because it was extremely emotional for me even though I had expected this to happen.
41:46 She Gumby'd that woman?? LMFAO Addison, I already liked my boy a whole lot for this series and reading the books. But now, knowing we're around the same age and have seen some of the same things... I appreciate you even more now breh. I have never heard anyone on youtube reference Gumby and beyond that, not anytime in the past decade or more probably. Cheers for the obscure reference brah!
What I read from the Lanfear/Liandrin scene is that Lanfear knew that Liandrin was tied to Ishy through her son. She took the opportunity to "free" Liandrin, telling her that now that she has let go of her son, that she is free to follow the Dark in any way she chooses, not tied to Ishy (or any man). She's recruiting. Pure and simple. She wants a new agent.
@@victorvalandybernard7944 hinting is spoiling. go to a reader thread for that. Everyone else, I agree. I love this Mat too, as he reflects aspects of book Mat that season one didn't show often. I think the end of last season is still affecting how Mat is woven into the series. I'd love to read the original season one scripts where Mat went to Fal Dara.
So many amazing actors in this season and these last 2 episodes have just been blowing me away! Especially when a new character like Ryma Sedai just comes in out of nowhere and just crushes it! (Pun wasn't intended, but I'm loving it now that I realized it was there!)
I had to mentally prepare just to watch this part of Egwene’s story. The Seanchan are brutal. I expected some of this episode to be addressed in the previous one just based on the title. The acting has been incredible.
@@serenitysedai totally agree. Season 1 had some challenges for sure. This season has really shown us that they're capable of doing better and makes me super hopeful for season 3!
Still cannot get over how similar Egwene and Kariana (sorry if spelled wrong) are, from her outrage on Egwene’s behalf that she drank the water, to her view that Mat needs to grow up and and do something useful. It’s so book Egwene. For context most non-reader reactions are like: ‘Egwene, be smart and play the game’ and ‘Mat’s so fun’ but Kariana is having none of that bullshit. I love her reactions so much and hope she stays on for more.
Yeah… there is no playing the game with the a’dam on. Damane have their meat cut for them. Egwene couldn’t pick up the jug until she was convinced, deep in her very bones, that there was no way she could use the jug to hurt anybody, at all, in any way.
About Moiraine. The inability to touch the One Power anymore is not just the loss of magical abilities. It's a profound existential loss. Like a musician forever losing the ability to hear music. Like a painter going blind, unable to see colors and form. Like a writer losing the ability to comprehend or use language. Like an addict abruptly cut off from the substance that sustained and defined them, left to face an overwhelming emptiness.
Without spoilers, i kindof want reiterate something very important about Lanfear and Ishi that is sometimes glossed over in the shoe but this scene perfectly captures: the Forsaken are on that DEMONTIME. Its one thing for somebody to say some oaths, and do some evil. Even tk be a true believer and go full dark dweller. Its another thing entirely when NAMED DEMONS OF HELL come rolling up IN YOUR HOUSE, KILL YOUR FAMILY, and be like "And? Brother/sister you still got oaths to fulfill. Now go clean up your kinfolk and make me some tea." With tue full understandi g that if you bat an EYE wrong, they can POLITELY feed your soul to things worse than the idea of fedding your flesh to your family. Demontime aint no joke, and Liabdrin know it.
Lan wasn't snitching. He's desperate to stop Moiraine from self-destructing by trying to manage this mission (help the Dragon Reborn) completely on her own. She won't accept his help, so he'll ask people whose help she will accept. This is basically Lan having an intervention for someone on a path to destroying herself. It's like doctor-patient confidentiality not applying when a patient is showing signs of wanting to unalive themselves or someone else. You call in the Psych consultants whether the patient allows you to or not.
As for the most painful episode...if the Egwene parts weren't enough, seeing Ryma Sedai being collared put this episode over the top for me. As a book reader seeing Ryma Sedai (never forget her name) hurt the most.
I appreciated y’alls humor in the reaction part of this video because the subject matter of this week was so dark and heavy. I almost didn’t want to watch the reaction and have to relive it all. Egwene’s torture was ROUGH, but y’alls comments definitely brought some levity to the seriousness that I greatly appreciate! Great job this week y’all! And Brandon!!! Literally I felt the same exact way as you how tf they finally give us a darkskinned Aes Sedai with a major speaking role and they enslave her???? AND kill her warder!? I was PISSED. But I’m hoping she lives and Egwene liberates them all. Like Carianna said BLOW THEM UP! I was pissed off this entire episode!
Yeah, unfortunately what happened to Ryma in this episode was a thing that happens in the books, as well. So the actress got the role knowing that this is what would happen to her character. 🤷♀️ The character is described as having dark hair and blue eyes so the character could have been any race of person, technically.
You guys caught the part where Renna pet Egwene like a dog. I don't believe she wants friendship with Egwene. I think she really just sees her as an animal to be tamed. This episode was brutal and amazing!! I love yall's WOT reactions! Can't wait for the next one
Marath-demane (uncollared channelers) are like wild horses in Seanchan. They are captured and sent to trainers for breaking so they can be ridden. There is no malice in her, frustration maybe, but she knows that once they become paired and the damane accepts her role, that they will be emotionally bonded like any horse owner who has a horse they ride exclusively feels. They horse needs the rider and the rider needs the horse and together they are better. This is not saying it's acceptable here, but this is the mentality the Seanchan hold.
You're definitely on point with Mat too. Even in the books, he's always meandering and then reluctantly getting roped back into things. His character really goes through a major transformation, which is a treat to see later on.
Nynaeve is a bulldozer, she just expects to get her way and do things her way. It's because as the village Wisdom she was an authority and people 2-3 tjmes her age had defer to her... but she had to kind of bully her way into getting that respect, because they didn't want to defer to her due to how young she was. So she learned early to just impose her will on people in order to get things done and protect the town, as was her duty. Elayne is a princess of a nation that deals with other nations; she was raised to understand diplomacy so she knows how to smooth things over and say it gently to get her point across. So both of them grew up with having authority from an early age but they learned very different ways to wield it. Some people get annoyed at Nynaeve because of her personality, but I still love her. Elayne can probably be insufferable in her own way too sometimes, but she's still awesome, too. 😄
I love this explanation of the two characters. They are so alike yet different that they also get on each other’s nerves constantly from what it seems lmao.
This episode was somehow able to top the one before it. This season has been amazing all the way through. I always appreciate your reactions and getting to hear your thoughts on the show.
The best acting from every actor to date. They are nailing this part of the story, and portraying things that I thought would be very hard to do, very well. This episode was just different, and was the first one I got emotional, which is what you want . Without any spoilers, you guys are feeling exactly what Moiraine's character is supposed to make you feel.
Yes!!! Read the books Carianna!! I promise I'll still watch the next two streams. 😀 Great reaction and breakdown everyone! Looking forward to see you all on the Dusty Wheel on Wednesday!
I think her son was her last hold on humanity. With him gone, Liandrin is going to be as evil as she can be. No humanity left, all Black Ajah, all the dark one's servant.
Some points I'd like you to consider about Moiraine. A bit of a thesis incoming, so bare with me. No book spoilers, though. I'll only pull from the TV show. 1) You're underestimating just how devastating it is to be cut off from the One Power (OP). It's been mentioned several times throughout the show that most people who are commit suicide. Thom's nephew, Owyn, did; Logain actually begged for death in front of the Amyrlin Seat in E105; Verin says in E202 that most women die from the loss of the OP; Moiraine herself alluded to it when talking to Logain and offering him the knife in exchange for teaching Rand in E205. So, right now Moiraine is very much dealing with PTSD and suicidal thoughts. 2) However, she has not acted on those thoughts because she still has her life's mission--to find and prepare the Dragon Reborn for the Last Battle. This has been her singular goal for the past 20 years of her life. She's put it first above all of her relationships--staying away from both Siuan and her family for so long. I believe this is why she didn't go home to help her family or to be with her dying father. If the Dragon loses the Last Battle then the entire world will suffer, and so she puts the wellbeing of the many above the wellbeing of the individual, including herself. 3) She has had to keep the nature of her life's mission a secret from everyone, except Lan and Siuan, for the past 20 years. If the truth were to get out both her and Siuan would be stilled--cut off from the OP--and banished from the White Tower. Although both of these things have happened to Moiraine, Siuan is still in danger. So Moiraine must stay quiet to keep Siuan safe. In addition, Moiraine does not know who she can trust because anyone could be a darkfriend. To share Rand's identity with anyone is to put him in danger of Darkfriends, the Forsaken, and the Dark One himself. 4) Since her confrontation with Ishamael at the Eye of the World in E108, she's come to realize that she has severely underestimated the difficulty of her life's mission this entire time. She's had a glimpse of just how powerful the Forsaken are and now she doesn't even have access to her greatest weapon and comfort, the OP. As such, I think she very much believes she will die carrying out her mission. Whether at the hands of the Fosaken, the Dark One, or her own hands if the pain of her loss becomes too great. 5) For this reason, she is pushing Lan away to protect him, both from being a target of the Forsaken and from the loss of their bond when she--as she believes--inevitably dies. In E105, we learned that when an Aes Sedai dies, her Warder suffers such devastating loss that he goes into a suicidal rage, killing without any thought for his own life. This was reinforced in E206 with Ryma and her Warder. She cares for Lan and knows he loves Nynaeve. I believe, she is trying to spare him the pain of a broken Bond, so that he can one day become Nynaeve's warder. She alludes to it in E107 when she's saying goodbye to him before Rand comes to tell her he's the Dragon Reborn. Alanna also mentions to Lan that Nynaeve may need a warder soon in E205. 6) Would it be better if Moiraine was open with Lan and shared all of this with him, giving him a choice in his own path? 100% But poor communication is rather a theme in The Wheel of Time 😅 Much like Rand, she thinks that going it alone is the only way she can protect the people she loves. End thesis!
Y'all talkin bout Moiraine like y'all forgot her entire life she on a mission to fight the Dark One. How you gon tell someone on a secret mission to save the world that she dont call home enough. She literally has bigger stuff to do.
It was a lot of fun re-watching the episode with you all, and I love your comments and insight afterward. I’m glad you added that segment at the end. I am with you in that I don’t know how they’re going to finish everything in two episodes! It was so painful to watch Egwayne, and to root for her to be able to touch the picture at the same time, wanting for her not to give up!
Hey guys, book reader here. I think the entire cast of this show has been doing phenomenal, and it has been a big step up from Season 1. That said, I have been struggling with this season a lot due to certain changes they have been making and the way they have been handling certain things. Wheel of Time has been my favorite thing since High School, and not liking parts of it has been really rough for me. This series helped me through a lot and it has just been a rough ride with this show with a lot of complex emotions for me. Liking certain parts and hating others and things like that, its been really complicated and just overall rough for me. No matter how I personally feel about any episode when it comes out, I always get to remember that I get to watch other people react to it and enjoy it. Been watching your ride since Season 1 came out and it has helped me keep a positive attitude toward the show. The Wheel of Time is still bringing joy and entertainment (as well as suffering, like this episode) to people. We are just experiencing it through a different medium, and I appreciate all of your energy. I look forward to completing this journey right along with you all! I also now refer to Loial as Brother Book in my head, so thanks for that haha.
Rand wanting to get away from everyone at the end of last season was not because he thought the dark one would be after him, but because ALL men who channel eventually become mad and kill everyone around them, including friends and family. To those living in that world, it's a basic fact of life, has been for thousands of years.
100%. That was true in S. 1, too, but there were far fewer of them. Even the changes this season are closer to book feeling, even if not actual book canon.
This is a deeply uncomfortable part of the books, and I was unsure that they were going to go all in on just how horrific this is. Renna also really reminds me of Octavia Butler's reflections on American slavery and in Kindred when she says, "He wasn't a monster at all. Just an ordinary man who sometimes did the monstrous things his society said were legal and proper." Renna believes she is doing the right thing. Renna thinks that she has the moral high ground. And she expects Egwene to play along with it because Egwene's current options are to give in or die. But Egwene's refusal to do so makes Renna question her morality and that's when she gives in to rage and physically attacks. But, I think, that rage is also what gives Egwene the way out. That the weapon isn't the pitcher of water, but surviving for the moment in the hopes of taking down all the Seanchan in the future.
The actor who plays Loial got married recently and invited the rest of the cast to the wedding. He had a huge wedding West African style and it looks like the actor who plays Perrin was one of his groomsmen.
I agree this is the most painful episode because we experience the dehumanization along with the hopelessness and unbelievable pain when she resists. Potentially, Egwene could be in this bondage for the rest of her life.
I think Moiraine has the opposite of a superiority complex but she will do anything she has to do if it serves the higher purpose of helping the dragon reborn, and if that means having to currently stay in Cairhien she will pull the older sister card no matter how much she hates to do it. She is in a very difficult position but you can also see in every interaction how much it costs her to be like that.
Moiraine has put the fate of the world in front of everything including her family. The strength that takes is absolutely phenomenal and should be respected
I absolutely love y'alls reactions! You should definitely do a series for Game of Thrones as well. Considering how long it's been since that show came out, I think people would love the chance to watch it again and see your reactions.
So many great jokes and insights I can't keep track, so just wanted to say thanks for the video 😍. This was such a hard episode of WoT to watch, and has kept me thinking for days afterwards. And I am excited that Carianna is going to read the books!!!
Moraine's motivation is preventing hell on earth. To stop that she will do anything. Rands turmoil is he is responsible for preventing hell on earth. No good choices for either makes them hard characters to emphasize with. Great reactions and I thank you for them.
"Rands turmoil is he is responsible for preventing hell on earth." And to add that he has to do that without him bringing hell on earth himself because of the danger of going mad himself and breaking the world.
You nailed the Stockholm Syndrome thing - Seanchan use abuser tactics to create a bond between Sul’dam and Damane. That moment where Egwene realizes they can and will break her given enough time - they perfectly captured the HORROR of it from the books. Fucking brutal.
Excellent reaction and review! This was an amazing, yet tough, episode! Fantastic performances from so many of the cast! It's going to be interesting to see how they wrap things up.
Rand's choice at the end of s1 is not particularly bad. I mean there were no better or worse choices in hindsight, only bad choices. But it wasn't even that he was protecting his friends from the Dark. He thought he killed the Dark One or whatever then. He was protecting them from HIMSELF. you are literally watching a nightmare of his where he kills the people he loves when you talk about this, and it's not even a dramatically exaggerated dream or anything, that's literally where he is very likely headed. Maybe cuz the show hasn't made it very clear at this point, so you have no idea how right he is to think like that. Maybe that's a failure on the show's part or something but yeah.
@edn How did you get it so quick? I was literally lusting after this beautiful black woman last week, and then BOOM! Here go this Negro with a fan shirt!
I really love your commentary and reactions. You all and your reactions had me cracking up. This was a great review/reaction. I am new to your channel and have subscribed.
Moirane is losing control of the situation. She's spent years being an Aes Sedi and in total control of any situation. The prophecy she's sought her entire life has come true. She's been "Stilled" and not slept for days nor can she sleep for fear of Lanfear . She's desperate. So much so she went to her sister. But that makes her dangerous indeed still . Desperate people do desperate things like letting Rand contact Lanfear etc. The weight of the world is on her shoulders and its only getting heavier. lol Dont judge her to bad... She's had a rough go as of late lmao
The actress who plays Egwene was AMAZING this episode. I didn’t read the books so I didn’t know what happens to her. Heartbreaking 💔. As always, excellent reaction/discussion.
Lanfear is stronger in the dreams. Moiraine says it to Rand. They have different powerspikes as Forsaken. So Ishamael is probably the best manipulator, and Lanfear can control dreams. Her name is literally Daughter of the Night. It is also true that Ishamael does not trust Lanfear for a second and the scene with them talking proves that. He wants to know what Lanfear tells Rand, and she is not letting him. However he needs the stronger forsaken to make his plan work that does not mean that Lanfear and Ishamaels goals are align.
😂😭🤣 I didn’t want to say it but Brandon did lol. I still have hope for dark skin brothas and sistas…that at least one of them will make it to the end !! 🖤❤️ -Adison
Moiraine has been very annoying recently true. But in that conversation with her sister this episode, she really couldn't have said anything. She probably didn't want to make an excuse and she isn't just going to come out with: "I was busy making plans on how to find and guide the Dragon Reborn so he can save the world"
@@talmanes4589 Yeah true. It's been a while since I saw season 1, but did they explain how incredibly hated and feared all male channelers are? Even if Rand could prove he was the Dragon Reborn, he and everyone associated with him would be hunted.
@@sivzzz3008 It's been touched on, and obviously we have Logain as an example but you have to remember they wanted the whole "who is the DR mystery" in s1 so they made it seem like it could be any of the guys or girls. They didn't really hammer home how feared the DR is because he'll break the world again and will be a man and fated to go insane. And they haven't stressed how dangerous just having knowledge of the DR is, to Moiraine and anyone else who finds out. Anyone who knows is in danger from other Aes Sedai, Whitecloaks, darkfriends, the Forsaken and even just common people.
Seanchan believes the women who chanels are dangerours and hence they colar them to control them. They are worse than slaves more like tamed beasts. Hence the treatment. Moiraine cant be a real woman since her work is a secretive one and she cant go around telling people of the work she was doing. And I dont think she has superiority complex. She is just devoted to her work more than any relationship(Thats the motto of the Blue Ajah). She has given her life to finding the Dragon Reborn(which is actually a huge thing). And I believe the Rand bashing is unjustified. I feel like the gravity of the role of the Dragon Reborn is not presented well in the show so far. Although they have mentioned time and again that the last Dragon went mad and killed his love ones. In the books this is actually the first scene so the readers get to know what it meant to be the Dragon Reborn. But the show focuses more on building the villains than the heroes that people love Lanfear more than Rand.
I was actually waiting to see how ya'll reacted to the Seanchan's view on slavery (and how prolific it is). Once you start to see the story as it is written, slavery makes quite a bit of an appearance in the story. There's more to come, but I'll leave that for you to see.
49:53 this conversation actually brought into focus for me: we’ve never seen exactly HOW white cloaks get over on channellers, whether aes sedai or damane; they were the ones to push the seanchan out and valda had been collecting rings like pokemon in the first season
This is a great point!!! I would also like to add that despite the White cloaks doing all that Aviendha handled them all nearly single handledly last episode?? That shows her strength! I am hoping next episode she unleashes that strength to help our girl Egwene out.
The Whitecloaks are able to trap Aes Sedai mainly because of the 3 oaths. Other channelers are a different story. Turok explained why Whitecloaks were able to push the Seanchan out of that one village - Suroth pushed farther than they were able to properly support from Falme.
The whitecloaks have realise that tower-trained channelers can’t channel without using hand movements. That and the 3 oaths limit Aes sedai effectiveness. The main challenge would be to quickly neutralise an accompanying warder.
The Whitecloaks are far too powerful in the show. That really annoys me. Especially in the first season, when they burn Aes Sedai like witches, not particularly realistic.
@@ludviglidstrom6924 I can't say I hate it, though... one of my main frustrations with the books was how easily "bad guys" were dealt wiith generally, even the Forsaken, half of them were dead before readers had any idea of their name. Show is raising stakes for our heroes, probably the thing they've done best IMO.
I can’t wIt to see you all on the Dusty Wheel! You guys pick up so much and so much of what you might not have right is still pretty logical from what the show has given you. I do think that your speculation about understanding Moraine’s motives better is coming this season. Don’t forget that the Blues purpose is causes and justice.
These sequence of scenes were HEAVILY discussed over the last few years between book readers. Would they actually lean into Egwene's torture? Egwene is now a captured slave who is treated as a pet. WoT show leaned in HARD on the torture and breaking of Egwene and they did it VERY well.
Probably the best they've done on anything so far. I have some gripes with the show but they did this very very well.
@@kylecook7187 facts. I always thought they couldn't avoid this with how important it is. But they've cut so much other important stuff
The a'dam is the bitch here. Unless you get it off or you're a complete psychopath that loves or is immune to pain, surrender is inevitable and only a matter of time. If you try to hit back you not only fail to hurt anyone but you get hurt twice as much than if you actually hurt someone. If you even believe you can use something as a weapon you get hurt. It's a no-win situation for any normal person.
I kept weeping. It was SO well done and both actors nailed it! Bam! Interspersing it with the capture of that yellow sister was 💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔
still wondering why they let Eqwene "keep" her name in the show version. In the book it was even worse because she renamed Egwene "Tuli" and treated her like some new puppy dog she had to house break and she talked to her the same way people talk sweetly to a dog that has misbehaved. IMO the book was way more psychologically torturous than they did it in the show. Still the show did a good job of making it physically agonizing with some of the psychological damage that would come from pain every time you thought of misbehaving, was just the added in being talked to like you were far less than a human that made the book worse.
Madeleine's portrayal of Egwene in this episode was Emmy-worthy imo. It's probably the most powerful performance in the show so far and that's saying something given Nynaeve's arches scene and Lan mourning the dead Warder in season one. The acting in this show overall deserves more widespread credit honestly. The whole cast is killing it 👏
On Moiraine, as frustrating as she is this season, I love the moral dilemma her character embodies. Working for the good of the individual vs. working for the good of many. Moiraine chooses the latter every time, even if it comes at a personal cost to the people close to her. I don't doubt that she cares for her family, Lan, and Rand, but she believes that sacrificing the temporary good of a few to procure possible permanent victory over the Dark One is worth it. Whether or not people agree with this stance is going to be mixed, but it does bring up an interesting point of discussion: if treating individual people like Moiraine does will bring about a greater good for all people in the end, does that fully justify the behavior?
I know right, people sometimes forget that about Moiraine
That's why she's blue. Righteous causes and all that.
I 100% agree Egwene’s actress needs an award for this performance. Incredible work. This episode’s performance were the best we have seen thus far!
She's the best cast character in the show
The portrayal of the three girls this season is so much better than last. I'm glad as this is great for the show and those watching it!
Acting by Egwene was amazing. They really captured how horrific the collar is. This whole arc is heartbreaking to read in the books
Why was Moiraine nasty to her sister? Without book spoilers, Moiraine hasn't slept in literal days. The literal weight of saving the world is on her shoulders. She couldn't go to her dying father because she was hunting for the Dragon Reborn. She can't tell her sister that 1. because this knowledge dangerous to her family 2, any member of her family could be a Dark Friend. So she can't answer her sister and she's exhausted. This shows how much Moiraine has sacrificed by devoting her life to the cause of fighting The Dark and protecting Rand. Now she is powerless, friendless, and she thinks she is losing. Under those conditions she isn't being evil by freezing her sister out, she is trying to protect her.
Add to that she is in the constant pain of feeling the source and not being able to touch it. She is constantly thinking about unaliving herself and the only thing that prevents that is knowing that she has a part to play in defeating the dark one and saving the world. Sandwiches and tea are not only irrelevant, but distracting...memories of normalcy she can't allow herself to feel or else be swept up. If she loses focus, it's over.
@@FinneasAF I think it is easy to miss the double meaning of Moiraine offering Logain a knife to end himself in trade for teaching Rand and when she said "I know how much you want this..." because she wants it just as much. But it was a scene that would be easy to miss for nonbook readers if you weren't looking for the double meanings. Sometimes things like that go by and you catch them on the second viewing.
I’m still banking on fam being Darkfriends.
And as a defense for the last 20 years, Moiraine has lost contact with her humanity. A theme that will recur.
@@mandyviv57 I think it would be more dramatic if Moiraine thought her sister was a possible Darkfriend and it ends up being her sweet nephew. That would be a twist for nonbook readers to enjoy.
Elayne is the Daughter Heir. She has been trained since birth to lead and to be a diplomat.
They way they show the differences between Elayne and Nynaeve's personalities is really spot on. Nynaeve's first reaction is always anger, and Elayne is always smoothing things over.
This episode was brutal! Madeleine Madden did amazing and so did Xelia Mendes-Jones as Renna. Also great dialogue about the cup.
Renna was absolutely amazing!
Madeline Madison’s acting was phenomenal this episode!
She brought it up from brutal to visceral.
I'm unconvinced that Ishamael was ever in Rand's dreams. We saw in last episode that you can imitate people and create replicas of people in the dream world... and when we first meet Selene, she asks Rand "another nightmare?"
I think she is better at the dream world than what Ishy is. Outside of it not so much.
@@AManOfHope Ishy said himself he's had a long time to practice..
I thought so too for a while, but on rewatch I’ve noticed Ishy flickers a little because he’s not got full control of the world of dreams. Would Lanfear keep her version flickering as well? She’s certainly clever enough. But I think she just allowed him in to Rand’s dream again to prove a point. Maybe we’ll see in the next forsaken interaction 🤷♂️
@@pudder68 Hes still not as good as Lanfear, whenever we see Ishy in the dream world (when it isnt his dream, like the first meeting between L + I) he's flickering, but Lanfear is always consistent when we see her
he dies not dissolve in all of his appearances, and never in s1 dreams
@@HQofrandom
I think what Egwene did was realize that when she escapes and gets her revenge, it won't be by hitting Renna with a jug. Physical attacks will never work, and she realized that the jug is not a weapon. She didn't break, she shifted her mindset. Or at least this is what I want to believe.
For book readers, the second the Seanchan were revealed at the very end of season 1, this episode, this episode is what we were thinking about. The preview seemed to show a one-episode-solution and that would have done a great disservice to the character and the plot line. Rafe really delivered with this episode. Maddy really, really delivered. Awesome. Only a person who is intimately associated with the books (Rafe) could have pulled this episode off with this kind depth. The payoff is gonna blow your mind, I promise. One of Egwene's superpowers is figuring things out that other people don't see. Can't wait for next week's episode!
Especially the way she looked at Renna after burning the tree down... I was like Renna just revealed something to Egwene and did not know it (non book reader).
Damane are animals to be trained and controlled, they treat them like pets. It happens to Egwene in the books, they nailed the pain. But she is molded in this episode for the future.
I think the Renna thing is much worse than her being a sociopath. As far as I am concerned, she does not even deem what she is doing to be anything but the right thing to do, likely because they were told from birth that this is what you are supposed to do. Which to me is even worse than Renna specifically being a sociopath, because it basically means any and all Sul'dam inherently believe that they are doing a nice/good/righteous thing.
Absolutely this!
Exactly. The Seanchan way is to see Damane as supossed to be leashed and the Aes Sedai way is wrong. She is genuinly seeing what she is doing to Egwene as the right thing to do since no woman is meant to wield that power on her own. For thousands of years, this has been their way and in Rennas eyes, that is the way it should be. She never takes pleasure in punishing Egwene. She is breaking her in like a wild horse. Bending her to Rennas will, cause in her world that is the right and safe way to use the One Power.
I feel like boredom might just be Ishamael's primary motivation 😂
Also on Mat: part of his whole character is that more than any of the others he doesn't *want* to be involved in any of this stuff and just wants to go do his own thing and live a fun casual life, but fate keeps pulling him in
“What if you think you’re helping somebody by hurting them?”
Addison right on the money. The Seanchan culture believes at their core that being a Domane is best for channellers
i would have been meditating heavily to convince myself that bashing her in the head would actually be helping. i kinda wish we would have seen her try that
To understand Moiraine's (and to an extent, Lan's) motivations here, we must understand that the mission is everything to her. She has devoted her entire life to finding the Dragon Reborn and preparing him for the Last Battle. In a way, I think of her behavior here similar to Batman in that she's willing to have everyone despise her to protect the secret of the Dragon Reborn and to help Rand win the Last Battle. They are massively out-gunned and telling one wrong person could irrevocably destroy their world forever.
Great point with batman comparison. Moiraine really is giving brooding/tortured soul with the fate of humanity on her hands vibes. Very much how Bruce operates lol.
Book reader here and came across your channel today. Love that you are enjoying, some of my friends and coworkers have started watching it and are LOVING it.
There is a lot of foreshadowing in the books and the showrunners are doing that as well, little things you mention have long term implications later on. Good eye on stuff and really enjoyed you all's reactions!
Addison & Carianna getting up out of their seats when Renna poured the water on the floor was all of us.
Brandon - I hated seeing how they killed Brother Patchy too my dude, respect
I expected her to pour the water out. It wasn't about the water. It was about making her obey and showing her she had no choice but to obey.
@@bobc538not just obedience. It was about showing Egwene she had no agency left in the world.
@@jeffdougan Well, to my mind. If there's no choice but to obey then you have no agency.
@@bobc538 I didn’t just mean o Edie ce in the moment, which is how I understood you. I meant complete and total, BDSM TPX level obedience.
I cried 2x this episode. Very emotional ending.
This one was tough for sure. Do you think this one got to you more than episode 2X3?
-Adison
@@edn Nynaeves trials were really tough, but this was next level. The slow breaking of her to the point where she finally realises that she has become tamed after being so vehemently resilient at first was perfectly filmed and acted, all in a small bare cell with a jug of water. She was broken by a sul'dam who has done this many times before and all of her efforts to resist were worth nothing.
The final moments though show that despite being broken, she still has some strength inside to try resisting in other ways.
@@edn this was way more painful.
@@ednI definitely compared this week’s episode to episode 3 in terms of trauma and this one beats it by far. Those torture scenes were painful to watch.
@@ednI think you need some book readers to go over the comments to remove spoilers before y'all read them. You'll likely get lots of fans as volunteers who'll likely do it for the love of your pure reactions.
The water was a metaphore for control. The Suldame broke her spirit and through the pouring of water symbolised handing over control. The control by the suldame to pour it away hammered home the brutality of that lesson.
Such a good episode.
@LeeTurnock-zy2dg I also think the water was a metaphor for the ability to channel. When Egwene poured the water into the cup, she essentially poured (gave) Renna her channel powers.
I love that the show exploits the Yellow Ajah's knowledge of the human body to show some gruesome stuff they can do while fighting.
Because yeah... Once you know how a body fits together, you can make it so it doesn't...
Yesss that was awesome and so smart. Kinda reminded me of a part from this manga/anime called Tokyo Ghoul where one character says to an enemy "There are 206 bones in the human body... and I'm going to break exactly half of yours," except Ryma didnt stop at half 😳
Ok, thats it! I'm watching all your wheel of time reactions from now on!
Much love!!! Welcome to the family!!! ❤️❤️❤️
-Adison
Go watch season 1 and the rewatch with Carianna! More episodes of that comign too
I LOVE your reactions to the show and look forward to seeing them every week. Being a huge WOT fan who have read the books multiple times, I appreciate the humor you all add to the reactions. I'm REALLY looking forward to your reaction to this episode because it was extremely emotional for me even though I had expected this to happen.
41:46
She Gumby'd that woman?? LMFAO Addison, I already liked my boy a whole lot for this series and reading the books. But now, knowing we're around the same age and have seen some of the same things... I appreciate you even more now breh. I have never heard anyone on youtube reference Gumby and beyond that, not anytime in the past decade or more probably. Cheers for the obscure reference brah!
What I read from the Lanfear/Liandrin scene is that Lanfear knew that Liandrin was tied to Ishy through her son. She took the opportunity to "free" Liandrin, telling her that now that she has let go of her son, that she is free to follow the Dark in any way she chooses, not tied to Ishy (or any man). She's recruiting. Pure and simple. She wants a new agent.
"she took ishy out the group chat"🤣🤣🤣
yes Nynaeve is head strong, she lacks composure.
The point about Lanfear telling Liandrin to let go of her son while holding onto Rand herself cracked me up!
Rand's very young, she knows he is powerful enough to give her everything she wants. Did you see him yell at her, just over the top.
Eyy Adison, I made a suggestion last video and I can totally see how you took it into consideration, that makes me feel so nice, you a real one fr.🥺💜
No problem! I appreciate you for bringing it to my attention! 🙏🏾 ❤️
-Adison
I noticed too, so rad ❤
This is why damane protect their sul’dam with their lives. They will be hurt twice as badly from the injuries.
I feel like this Mat is closer to the book Mat.
Definitley. I'm loving Donal's portrayal. He's nailing it.
@@victorvalandybernard7944 hinting is spoiling. go to a reader thread for that. Everyone else, I agree. I love this Mat too, as he reflects aspects of book Mat that season one didn't show often. I think the end of last season is still affecting how Mat is woven into the series. I'd love to read the original season one scripts where Mat went to Fal Dara.
So many amazing actors in this season and these last 2 episodes have just been blowing me away! Especially when a new character like Ryma Sedai just comes in out of nowhere and just crushes it! (Pun wasn't intended, but I'm loving it now that I realized it was there!)
I had to mentally prepare just to watch this part of Egwene’s story. The Seanchan are brutal. I expected some of this episode to be addressed in the previous one just based on the title. The acting has been incredible.
This episode was absolutely incredible! I have read the whole series and am really enjoying this season!! Can't wait to watch the reaction!!!
This season is much better than season one for me
@@serenitysedai totally agree. Season 1 had some challenges for sure. This season has really shown us that they're capable of doing better and makes me super hopeful for season 3!
Still cannot get over how similar Egwene and Kariana (sorry if spelled wrong) are, from her outrage on Egwene’s behalf that she drank the water, to her view that Mat needs to grow up and and do something useful. It’s so book Egwene. For context most non-reader reactions are like: ‘Egwene, be smart and play the game’ and ‘Mat’s so fun’ but Kariana is having none of that bullshit. I love her reactions so much and hope she stays on for more.
Yeah… there is no playing the game with the a’dam on. Damane have their meat cut for them. Egwene couldn’t pick up the jug until she was convinced, deep in her very bones, that there was no way she could use the jug to hurt anybody, at all, in any way.
About Moiraine.
The inability to touch the One Power anymore is not just the loss of magical abilities.
It's a profound existential loss.
Like a musician forever losing the ability to hear music.
Like a painter going blind, unable to see colors and form.
Like a writer losing the ability to comprehend or use language.
Like an addict abruptly cut off from the substance that sustained and defined them, left to face an overwhelming emptiness.
I was looking for this reaction the moment I ended the episode. Couldn't wait to see you guys watch it.
Without spoilers, i kindof want reiterate something very important about Lanfear and Ishi that is sometimes glossed over in the shoe but this scene perfectly captures: the Forsaken are on that DEMONTIME. Its one thing for somebody to say some oaths, and do some evil. Even tk be a true believer and go full dark dweller. Its another thing entirely when NAMED DEMONS OF HELL come rolling up IN YOUR HOUSE, KILL YOUR FAMILY, and be like "And? Brother/sister you still got oaths to fulfill. Now go clean up your kinfolk and make me some tea." With tue full understandi g that if you bat an EYE wrong, they can POLITELY feed your soul to things worse than the idea of fedding your flesh to your family. Demontime aint no joke, and Liabdrin know it.
Damn son!!! Great added perspective!!
Lan wasn't snitching. He's desperate to stop Moiraine from self-destructing by trying to manage this mission (help the Dragon Reborn) completely on her own. She won't accept his help, so he'll ask people whose help she will accept. This is basically Lan having an intervention for someone on a path to destroying herself. It's like doctor-patient confidentiality not applying when a patient is showing signs of wanting to unalive themselves or someone else. You call in the Psych consultants whether the patient allows you to or not.
As for the most painful episode...if the Egwene parts weren't enough, seeing Ryma Sedai being collared put this episode over the top for me. As a book reader seeing Ryma Sedai (never forget her name) hurt the most.
Definite seeing Ryma, who has been nothing but kind to the girls, get collared was the worst part of this episode for me next to Egwene’s torture.
Never forgot her name. 😭
Knowing what’s coming, I kinda hoped they would have changed it and kinda hoped it wasn’t.
Ok so who’s Ryma what role does she play?👀 will we see her again?
I appreciated y’alls humor in the reaction part of this video because the subject matter of this week was so dark and heavy. I almost didn’t want to watch the reaction and have to relive it all. Egwene’s torture was ROUGH, but y’alls comments definitely brought some levity to the seriousness that I greatly appreciate! Great job this week y’all!
And Brandon!!! Literally I felt the same exact way as you how tf they finally give us a darkskinned Aes Sedai with a major speaking role and they enslave her???? AND kill her warder!? I was PISSED. But I’m hoping she lives and Egwene liberates them all. Like Carianna said BLOW THEM UP! I was pissed off this entire episode!
Yeah, unfortunately what happened to Ryma in this episode was a thing that happens in the books, as well. So the actress got the role knowing that this is what would happen to her character. 🤷♀️ The character is described as having dark hair and blue eyes so the character could have been any race of person, technically.
You guys caught the part where Renna pet Egwene like a dog. I don't believe she wants friendship with Egwene. I think she really just sees her as an animal to be tamed. This episode was brutal and amazing!! I love yall's WOT reactions! Can't wait for the next one
Marath-demane (uncollared channelers) are like wild horses in Seanchan. They are captured and sent to trainers for breaking so they can be ridden. There is no malice in her, frustration maybe, but she knows that once they become paired and the damane accepts her role, that they will be emotionally bonded like any horse owner who has a horse they ride exclusively feels. They horse needs the rider and the rider needs the horse and together they are better. This is not saying it's acceptable here, but this is the mentality the Seanchan hold.
@@FinneasAF I'm not a WOT book reader but what you're describing is the vibe i got from her treatment of Egwene here. Thanks!
You're definitely on point with Mat too. Even in the books, he's always meandering and then reluctantly getting roped back into things. His character really goes through a major transformation, which is a treat to see later on.
"She removed this negro from the Group Chat!" 😂😂😂😂 Yes! Lanfear is a queen of the dream world and she could do exactly that!
Probably wasn’t even him. The last episode they made a fake Rand in the dream world it was probably just a decoy Ishy that she created.
Nynaeve is a bulldozer, she just expects to get her way and do things her way. It's because as the village Wisdom she was an authority and people 2-3 tjmes her age had defer to her... but she had to kind of bully her way into getting that respect, because they didn't want to defer to her due to how young she was. So she learned early to just impose her will on people in order to get things done and protect the town, as was her duty.
Elayne is a princess of a nation that deals with other nations; she was raised to understand diplomacy so she knows how to smooth things over and say it gently to get her point across. So both of them grew up with having authority from an early age but they learned very different ways to wield it.
Some people get annoyed at Nynaeve because of her personality, but I still love her. Elayne can probably be insufferable in her own way too sometimes, but she's still awesome, too. 😄
I love this explanation of the two characters. They are so alike yet different that they also get on each other’s nerves constantly from what it seems lmao.
This episode was somehow able to top the one before it. This season has been amazing all the way through. I always appreciate your reactions and getting to hear your thoughts on the show.
I wasnt sure how this season was going to go after E1 and E2 (which i thought were average) but it has ramped up constantly since then
The best acting from every actor to date. They are nailing this part of the story, and portraying things that I thought would be very hard to do, very well. This episode was just different, and was the first one I got emotional, which is what you want . Without any spoilers, you guys are feeling exactly what Moiraine's character is supposed to make you feel.
Yes!!! Read the books Carianna!! I promise I'll still watch the next two streams. 😀 Great reaction and breakdown everyone! Looking forward to see you all on the Dusty Wheel on Wednesday!
I think her son was her last hold on humanity. With him gone, Liandrin is going to be as evil as she can be. No humanity left, all Black Ajah, all the dark one's servant.
Not just humanity but her tie to Ishy specifically
Some points I'd like you to consider about Moiraine. A bit of a thesis incoming, so bare with me. No book spoilers, though. I'll only pull from the TV show.
1) You're underestimating just how devastating it is to be cut off from the One Power (OP). It's been mentioned several times throughout the show that most people who are commit suicide. Thom's nephew, Owyn, did; Logain actually begged for death in front of the Amyrlin Seat in E105; Verin says in E202 that most women die from the loss of the OP; Moiraine herself alluded to it when talking to Logain and offering him the knife in exchange for teaching Rand in E205. So, right now Moiraine is very much dealing with PTSD and suicidal thoughts.
2) However, she has not acted on those thoughts because she still has her life's mission--to find and prepare the Dragon Reborn for the Last Battle. This has been her singular goal for the past 20 years of her life. She's put it first above all of her relationships--staying away from both Siuan and her family for so long. I believe this is why she didn't go home to help her family or to be with her dying father. If the Dragon loses the Last Battle then the entire world will suffer, and so she puts the wellbeing of the many above the wellbeing of the individual, including herself.
3) She has had to keep the nature of her life's mission a secret from everyone, except Lan and Siuan, for the past 20 years. If the truth were to get out both her and Siuan would be stilled--cut off from the OP--and banished from the White Tower. Although both of these things have happened to Moiraine, Siuan is still in danger. So Moiraine must stay quiet to keep Siuan safe. In addition, Moiraine does not know who she can trust because anyone could be a darkfriend. To share Rand's identity with anyone is to put him in danger of Darkfriends, the Forsaken, and the Dark One himself.
4) Since her confrontation with Ishamael at the Eye of the World in E108, she's come to realize that she has severely underestimated the difficulty of her life's mission this entire time. She's had a glimpse of just how powerful the Forsaken are and now she doesn't even have access to her greatest weapon and comfort, the OP. As such, I think she very much believes she will die carrying out her mission. Whether at the hands of the Fosaken, the Dark One, or her own hands if the pain of her loss becomes too great.
5) For this reason, she is pushing Lan away to protect him, both from being a target of the Forsaken and from the loss of their bond when she--as she believes--inevitably dies. In E105, we learned that when an Aes Sedai dies, her Warder suffers such devastating loss that he goes into a suicidal rage, killing without any thought for his own life. This was reinforced in E206 with Ryma and her Warder. She cares for Lan and knows he loves Nynaeve. I believe, she is trying to spare him the pain of a broken Bond, so that he can one day become Nynaeve's warder. She alludes to it in E107 when she's saying goodbye to him before Rand comes to tell her he's the Dragon Reborn. Alanna also mentions to Lan that Nynaeve may need a warder soon in E205.
6) Would it be better if Moiraine was open with Lan and shared all of this with him, giving him a choice in his own path? 100% But poor communication is rather a theme in The Wheel of Time 😅 Much like Rand, she thinks that going it alone is the only way she can protect the people she loves.
End thesis!
Excellent thesis! 💙💙💙
@@rapunzl347 Thanks! ☺️
Y'all talkin bout Moiraine like y'all forgot her entire life she on a mission to fight the Dark One. How you gon tell someone on a secret mission to save the world that she dont call home enough. She literally has bigger stuff to do.
🧢 she can’t send a letter?
@@rantalmore not if no one's sposed to know where she is.
Except that the show hasn't done enough to really establish that this is her life's work as in the books.
@@eds464 I haven't read the books but I think the show has actually made that extremely clear.
@@akaha001 that's great for you (and I agree) but for many reviewers who are non book readers have not picked up on that.
It was a lot of fun re-watching the episode with you all, and I love your comments and insight afterward. I’m glad you added that segment at the end. I am with you in that I don’t know how they’re going to finish everything in two episodes! It was so painful to watch Egwayne, and to root for her to be able to touch the picture at the same time, wanting for her not to give up!
Hey guys, book reader here.
I think the entire cast of this show has been doing phenomenal, and it has been a big step up from Season 1. That said, I have been struggling with this season a lot due to certain changes they have been making and the way they have been handling certain things. Wheel of Time has been my favorite thing since High School, and not liking parts of it has been really rough for me. This series helped me through a lot and it has just been a rough ride with this show with a lot of complex emotions for me. Liking certain parts and hating others and things like that, its been really complicated and just overall rough for me.
No matter how I personally feel about any episode when it comes out, I always get to remember that I get to watch other people react to it and enjoy it. Been watching your ride since Season 1 came out and it has helped me keep a positive attitude toward the show. The Wheel of Time is still bringing joy and entertainment (as well as suffering, like this episode) to people. We are just experiencing it through a different medium, and I appreciate all of your energy. I look forward to completing this journey right along with you all!
I also now refer to Loial as Brother Book in my head, so thanks for that haha.
Great reaction and discussion guys.
Thanks!! I appreciate you for the feedback! We would go longer if we could but you know...life lol!
-Adison
Rand wanting to get away from everyone at the end of last season was not because he thought the dark one would be after him, but because ALL men who channel eventually become mad and kill everyone around them, including friends and family. To those living in that world, it's a basic fact of life, has been for thousands of years.
Without spoilers - The best episodes so far have been the ones closest to the books. This is one of them
100%. That was true in S. 1, too, but there were far fewer of them. Even the changes this season are closer to book feeling, even if not actual book canon.
This is a deeply uncomfortable part of the books, and I was unsure that they were going to go all in on just how horrific this is. Renna also really reminds me of Octavia Butler's reflections on American slavery and in Kindred when she says, "He wasn't a monster at all. Just an ordinary man who sometimes did the monstrous things his society said were legal and proper." Renna believes she is doing the right thing. Renna thinks that she has the moral high ground. And she expects Egwene to play along with it because Egwene's current options are to give in or die. But Egwene's refusal to do so makes Renna question her morality and that's when she gives in to rage and physically attacks. But, I think, that rage is also what gives Egwene the way out. That the weapon isn't the pitcher of water, but surviving for the moment in the hopes of taking down all the Seanchan in the future.
The actor who plays Loial got married recently and invited the rest of the cast to the wedding. He had a huge wedding West African style and it looks like the actor who plays Perrin was one of his groomsmen.
That was funny as hell when when carianna started copying the Ogier song and there was a plant withering haha good shit
😭😂 nobody can sing it like brotha book!!!
-Adison
Love your perspective and I agree, we need double the episodes.
I agree this is the most painful episode because we experience the dehumanization along with the hopelessness and unbelievable pain when she resists. Potentially, Egwene could be in this bondage for the rest of her life.
I think Moiraine has the opposite of a superiority complex but she will do anything she has to do if it serves the higher purpose of helping the dragon reborn, and if that means having to currently stay in Cairhien she will pull the older sister card no matter how much she hates to do it. She is in a very difficult position but you can also see in every interaction how much it costs her to be like that.
Moiraine has put the fate of the world in front of everything including her family. The strength that takes is absolutely phenomenal and should be respected
I absolutely love y'alls reactions! You should definitely do a series for Game of Thrones as well. Considering how long it's been since that show came out, I think people would love the chance to watch it again and see your reactions.
Strength in the One Power and strength in Tel'aran'rhiod are two different things. In the world of dreams, Lanfear is pretty much unmatched.
Or so she'd like to believe.
"It's just a weave"
Spoilers...
@@SeebsL not at all, really.
So many great jokes and insights I can't keep track, so just wanted to say thanks for the video 😍. This was such a hard episode of WoT to watch, and has kept me thinking for days afterwards. And I am excited that Carianna is going to read the books!!!
What really exciting is the different ways the one power is being used in this series is brilliant writing immaculate top tier i need more and more
Moraine's motivation is preventing hell on earth. To stop that she will do anything. Rands turmoil is he is responsible for preventing hell on earth. No good choices for either makes them hard characters to emphasize with. Great reactions and I thank you for them.
"Rands turmoil is he is responsible for preventing hell on earth." And to add that he has to do that without him bringing hell on earth himself because of the danger of going mad himself and breaking the world.
"She gone go in that room and tell her eat that sandwich" loool😂
love the reactions guys, keep them coming.
You nailed the Stockholm Syndrome thing - Seanchan use abuser tactics to create a bond between Sul’dam and Damane. That moment where Egwene realizes they can and will break her given enough time - they perfectly captured the HORROR of it from the books. Fucking brutal.
That was an excellent reaction, especially Brandon was so on point I wanted more!
That Avienda shirt is 🔥🔥🔥🙌🏼🙌🏼
www.etsy.com/listing/1560092992/vintage-aviendha-t-shirt-wheel-of-time?click_key=d3c50e32c1330baaf52dd905245e4c99f5410377%3A1560092992&click_sum=7212be91&ref=shop_home_active_1
Excellent reaction and review! This was an amazing, yet tough, episode! Fantastic performances from so many of the cast! It's going to be interesting to see how they wrap things up.
I love how you guys manage to guess what's coming so much of the time.
Rand's choice at the end of s1 is not particularly bad. I mean there were no better or worse choices in hindsight, only bad choices. But it wasn't even that he was protecting his friends from the Dark. He thought he killed the Dark One or whatever then. He was protecting them from HIMSELF. you are literally watching a nightmare of his where he kills the people he loves when you talk about this, and it's not even a dramatically exaggerated dream or anything, that's literally where he is very likely headed. Maybe cuz the show hasn't made it very clear at this point, so you have no idea how right he is to think like that. Maybe that's a failure on the show's part or something but yeah.
Book 1 spoilerish:
Also weird if you read the Prologue of the Eye of the World and don't get it though. Cuz it really showcases how bad it is....
The acting in this episode is superb. Great reaction y'all.
Thanks! And I agree they took the acting to another level this episode for sure! Especially Egwene!
-Adison
Also, can we talk about how much Carianna adds to these reactions?!
So glad I was able to have her join us this season!!!
-Adison
@edn Me too!!
@edn
I need that Aviendha shirt bro! Is it up on Amazon yet?
@@seanlamont8501 lol not yet! I’ll try and get it posted in the description of this video today!
-Adison
@edn
How did you get it so quick? I was literally lusting after this beautiful black woman last week, and then BOOM! Here go this Negro with a fan shirt!
I really love your commentary and reactions. You all and your reactions had me cracking up. This was a great review/reaction. I am new to your channel and have subscribed.
I laughed so hard when you said how it makes you mad when Nynaeve is gruff and Elayne has to be calm and in charge. Just get ready LOL
I have read all of the books and you guys are very insightful. Egwene becomes unstoppable thanks to her training as a slave. Thanks!
SPOILERS! seriously dude. delete or edit out all references to the future.
Moirane is losing control of the situation. She's spent years being an Aes Sedi and in total control of any situation. The prophecy she's sought her entire life has come true. She's been "Stilled" and not slept for days nor can she sleep for fear of Lanfear . She's desperate. So much so she went to her sister. But that makes her dangerous indeed still . Desperate people do desperate things like letting Rand contact Lanfear etc. The weight of the world is on her shoulders and its only getting heavier. lol Dont judge her to bad... She's had a rough go as of late lmao
The actress who plays Egwene was AMAZING this episode. I didn’t read the books so I didn’t know what happens to her. Heartbreaking 💔. As always, excellent reaction/discussion.
Lol this episode got y'all. Egwene's performance was amazing.
Facts!!! They tried to break Egwene and ended up breaking us in the process lol!
-Adison
Your discussions are everything!!! Thank you for sharing
Becoming my favorite reaction channel.
This second season is great. I hope they’re getting views so it can continue
Lanfear is stronger in the dreams. Moiraine says it to Rand. They have different powerspikes as Forsaken. So Ishamael is probably the best manipulator, and Lanfear can control dreams. Her name is literally Daughter of the Night. It is also true that Ishamael does not trust Lanfear for a second and the scene with them talking proves that. He wants to know what Lanfear tells Rand, and she is not letting him. However he needs the stronger forsaken to make his plan work that does not mean that Lanfear and Ishamaels goals are align.
I don’t think Ishy was really in Rand’s dream this episode. I think Lanfear conjured him up to further manipulate Rand.
100% agree.
and in episode 2, I think she did that
@@cait_bean AGREED
Nah, Ishi can't control the dreamworld that good, that is why he glitches. Lanfear has perfect control that is why she is smooth
A small detail that I appreciate is that the script Moiraine is writing in is actually found in The Wheel of Time Companion book.
Oh shi, lmao, he said, "And she chocolate 🍫. They are going to keep all the light skin ones."😂😂😂
😂😭🤣 I didn’t want to say it but Brandon did lol. I still have hope for dark skin brothas and sistas…that at least one of them will make it to the end !! 🖤❤️
-Adison
I like your discussions at the end. You guys always catch little things. Any wait till you get the reveals. Lol
12:10 "That's Ogierist" I had to pause the video for that laugh! XD
Love you guys❤Just 2 episodes left😭😭😭
🙏🏾❤️ I appreciate you!! I’m excited and already dreading the end of season 2 coming at the same time!
-Adison
Best reactions to this show I've found keep em coming
Moiraine has been very annoying recently true. But in that conversation with her sister this episode, she really couldn't have said anything. She probably didn't want to make an excuse and she isn't just going to come out with: "I was busy making plans on how to find and guide the Dragon Reborn so he can save the world"
She coulda said I can’t tell you what I’m doing. You will be slain by forsaken if you’re told.
Yea, the truth is incredibly dangerous to her and to anyone she tells. I'm not sure the show has driven that home enough yet.
@@talmanes4589 Yeah true. It's been a while since I saw season 1, but did they explain how incredibly hated and feared all male channelers are? Even if Rand could prove he was the Dragon Reborn, he and everyone associated with him would be hunted.
@@sivzzz3008 It's been touched on, and obviously we have Logain as an example but you have to remember they wanted the whole "who is the DR mystery" in s1 so they made it seem like it could be any of the guys or girls. They didn't really hammer home how feared the DR is because he'll break the world again and will be a man and fated to go insane. And they haven't stressed how dangerous just having knowledge of the DR is, to Moiraine and anyone else who finds out. Anyone who knows is in danger from other Aes Sedai, Whitecloaks, darkfriends, the Forsaken and even just common people.
@@talmanes4589 and I feel like the show really undercuts that with how easily Lan tells that to Alanna and Co.
Thanks for another great reaction and discussion!
The scene with Lanfear and Liandrin is so sad.
Seanchan believes the women who chanels are dangerours and hence they colar them to control them. They are worse than slaves more like tamed beasts. Hence the treatment.
Moiraine cant be a real woman since her work is a secretive one and she cant go around telling people of the work she was doing. And I dont think she has superiority complex. She is just devoted to her work more than any relationship(Thats the motto of the Blue Ajah). She has given her life to finding the Dragon Reborn(which is actually a huge thing).
And I believe the Rand bashing is unjustified. I feel like the gravity of the role of the Dragon Reborn is not presented well in the show so far. Although they have mentioned time and again that the last Dragon went mad and killed his love ones. In the books this is actually the first scene so the readers get to know what it meant to be the Dragon Reborn. But the show focuses more on building the villains than the heroes that people love Lanfear more than Rand.
I was actually waiting to see how ya'll reacted to the Seanchan's view on slavery (and how prolific it is). Once you start to see the story as it is written, slavery makes quite a bit of an appearance in the story. There's more to come, but I'll leave that for you to see.
It is not a complete coincidence that RJ wrote in a letter to a fan who asked about lots of accents that the Seanchan sound like Texans.
49:53 this conversation actually brought into focus for me: we’ve never seen exactly HOW white cloaks get over on channellers, whether aes sedai or damane; they were the ones to push the seanchan out and valda had been collecting rings like pokemon in the first season
This is a great point!!! I would also like to add that despite the White cloaks doing all that Aviendha handled them all nearly single handledly last episode?? That shows her strength! I am hoping next episode she unleashes that strength to help our girl Egwene out.
The Whitecloaks are able to trap Aes Sedai mainly because of the 3 oaths. Other channelers are a different story. Turok explained why Whitecloaks were able to push the Seanchan out of that one village - Suroth pushed farther than they were able to properly support from Falme.
The whitecloaks have realise that tower-trained channelers can’t channel without using hand movements. That and the 3 oaths limit Aes sedai effectiveness. The main challenge would be to quickly neutralise an accompanying warder.
The Whitecloaks are far too powerful in the show. That really annoys me. Especially in the first season, when they burn Aes Sedai like witches, not particularly realistic.
@@ludviglidstrom6924 I can't say I hate it, though... one of my main frustrations with the books was how easily "bad guys" were dealt wiith generally, even the Forsaken, half of them were dead before readers had any idea of their name. Show is raising stakes for our heroes, probably the thing they've done best IMO.
"Removed from the group chat" lol. Enjoying your reactions to the show!
I can’t wIt to see you all on the Dusty Wheel! You guys pick up so much and so much of what you might not have right is still pretty logical from what the show has given you.
I do think that your speculation about understanding Moraine’s motives better is coming this season. Don’t forget that the Blues purpose is causes and justice.
do u know when they will go on
Give Madeleine the Emmy now.
Carriana's emotional roller coaster is the reason i watch 😂