Thanks very much for this! Affinage is the least described aspect of cheese making as far as I can tell. As you learn more, I'd really appreciate updates :-) It's kind of early days (I've only done 3 cheeses this way so far), but based on some information I've pieced together from various sources, I seem to have stumbled on an awesome early process for natural rinds. The key is that early colonization of yeasts (like geotrichum candidum) on the rind will all but completely eliminate blue mold. First, try your best to avoid any sharp edges on your cheeses. For example, in your caciotta, the place where the follower was too small, created a bit of a crease. Blue mold *loves* these sharp edges. I have a fast draining mold with many holes. If I press the cheese without a cloth, I get stippling on the rind. This stippling is a haven for blue. So as much as possible, keep the rind smooth. Currently, I'll press with cheese cloth and then I'll take it out of the mold (depress) and put it back in for a few hours without the cloth (no, or very little weight). This smooths out some of the marks from the cloth. Next, wait 24 hours after salting/brining and then introduce yeasts. You can rub some off another young cheese and then rub it on the new cheese. Or, more easily, you can make a spray/morge and spray or wipe a solution onto the new cheese. You want to wait 24 hours after brining because the yeasts are not very tolerant of salt. Geotrichum candidum only has a tolerance of up to about 4% -- so if you make a spray or morge, then make sure that the solution has a maximum of about 3% salt. If you have no source of yeasts other than wild yeasts (or you just want to do that), then the advice I've heard is to hold the cheese at 65 f (18 C) for 24 hours to get the yeast established -- I tend to get blue when doing that as well, but by selectively removing the blue, eventually the yeast wins. Next, let the yeasts grow. If you have sprayed or transferred from another cheese, it should only take about 1 day to start seeing some white on the rind. At this point you have a choice. If you are doing a washed rind, the general advice seems to be to add b. linens (or not) and start building up a "schmier". So you want to use a 3% salt brine (so as not to kill the geo). Use a cloth or a soft brush with enough brine so that you get a bit of "paste" coming up in the brine as you wash. Wash the top and the sides, but not the bottom. The next day flip and wash the new top and the sides. Keep doing that every day. The schmier will get thicker and thicker and eventually will start turning orange/red. Keep going until you have the rind you want. If doing a patted, brushed or "mixed" rind (like a reblochon), let the yeast grow for about 4 days. At this point it should cover the whole cheese. You should then wash the cheese and remove all of the yeast/mold -- every trace of it -- with a 3% brine. Or, if you want a thicker rind, you can get a small amount of cheese salt (coarse salt seems better) and use it without water as an abrasive with a cloth to remove all of the yeast/mold (this is also good if your cheese is weeping a lot of whey as the salt will draw out the whey). The end result will look clean, but it really spreads the yeast and prepares the rind. The yeast should bloom in the next day or 2 and within 3 more days it will be *covered* with yeast. If doing a mixed rind (which is a washed rind that ends up having a yeast bloom on top), then start washing every second or third day for a few weeks until the b. linens shows up. Otherwise just live it, patting or brushing when the cover gets too thick. From that point on, blue will *never* come back. Or at least that's the theory. So far with the 3 I've done so far it's been literally like magic. The main differences I've seen in this protocol is that some people use more salt, especially when doing a washed rind. B. linens requires a certain amount of salt. However, it is important to understand that B. linens will not grow until the pH of the rind is around 5.8 -- and *that* only happens because the yeast increases the pH. So if you make the yeast struggle with too much salt, then you only delay the b.linens -- and this lets blue get a foothold. For that reason, I think it's probably a good idea to limit the salt content for the first few days. You can up it later. Another difference is that many people like to add alcohol to their wash for washed rinds. I *think* the yeast is much more tolerant of the alcohol than mold, so this can really help if you are having problems with a washed rind. With patted or brushed rinds, it really seems important to avoid salt at the beginning because you *have* to get the yeast established. If you have salt on your rind, you *select* for blue, because it's tolerant of salt way up to around 12%, whereas the yeast is only tolerant up to 4%. This is apparently one of the biggest affinage mistakes I've made. One more thing. I've found that once I get the yeast going, I can crank the humidity as high as I want. I use ripening boxes so the only limit is how often I mind wiping out the boxes. Anyway, I hope you found this interesting. Hopefully I won't find out in the next few cheeses that it's all wrong :-) But like I said, at the moment it seems like magic.
I stumbled upon this channel while looking for joke pics about cheesing at work. Anyway, I found myself mesmerized and couldn't stop watching. I mean I love cheese what joe doesn't but I never thought about the art of cheese making. Oddly enough, where I live I have caverns below my home and I've been told they would be ideal for making cheeses and wines in. Now I'm thinking....
You are a cheese BEAST!!! I am so amazed by all different cheeses you have to babysit and attend to. Thank you for sharing this! I only have my hillbilly cave for now, but next year I'll have a wine fridge and hope will be better.
I don't know anything about cheese making but I do know a tiny bit about refrigeration sensors. In my opinion you should crank up the humidifier and run a daily automated defrost cycle with a collection tray for water. You could plug the fridge on a timer with a one hr defrost(off). Drill an extra hole for gravity draining for that tray and voila. With how full the fridge is, there should be enough mass for the defrost cycle to not affect the cheese. I think that should eliminate the need for wet paper towels.
Like many home cheesemakers, I have struggled with the aging process. From the first line of this video I knew I had found the right one. Thanks, It was very helpful.
Your videos are amazing so informative (great job Chase 👍) i have goats, i milk goats, but i haven't ventured any further into cheese making than soft cheeses & yogurt. Honestly everything I've learned has been from your videos and suggeations of books you reference. Thanks!
I am just starting to make cheese from our small goat dairy. My first cheese is a gouda. I plan when the cheese is ready for the cave to either wax it or vacuum seal the cheese. Then after about 6 weeks open it for a taste test then reseal it. Good luck on your much more advanced cheese products!
You have a lot going on in your ageing spaces!...I'm impressed. My go to is vacuum packing, which allows us to go away in our motorhome without worrying about my cheeses. I tend to make soft cheeses only in the cooler months because they need more attention, and we go away less often and for shorter periods. The humidity is higher during this time also, which helps with the ageing process. Thanks for a very interesting look round your rather handsome cheeses!
Try doing this for moisture in the boxes. Drill some holes in a plastic tooth brush holder and cut a new sponge so it fits in the tooth brush holder. Wet the sponge with distilled water and shake some of the water out. Place sponge in tooth brush holder and place in storage box. Do remove the cap on the tooth brush holder as it is not needed. While you are at it, make another one for a cigar box humidor.
This is really impressive, talk about upping your game. Do you sell those cheeses? That just seemed like so many. I would love to try your cheese. Maybe one day we'll both make it to the ACS conference!
Josiah McCarthy we eat them and extras go to friends, family, and milk customers. I would love to be Grade A, but can’t afford it. Maybe if this UA-cam channel goes viral. Lol
I age my cheddar cheese at room temperature in wax. I find I can get sharper flavors at room temperature more quickly and the wax keeps it sealed from any unwanted mold or bacteria.
Fantastic video.. Where can I get more info on getting the right mould cultures to grow? I’ve been googling but I can’t find the right info. Also, if someone can point me to info on the blue cheese mould, that would be awesome...
I'm sorry. We find that the music is louder and quieter depending on the device. We try to keep it low enough to provide ambiance without being distracting. We will try reducing it a little more next time.
Great video full of useful tips. I'm a beginner, I've managed feta and mozzarella so far - I'm going to venture into hard cheese soon hopefully. Not sure if our cellar is the right place for ageing cheese - it's the coolest place in the house but it's rather dusty and musty.
This was an amazing video - thank you so much! I've been making cheeses for a long time (30+ year dairy goat owner ;) But I always struggle with the aging, the moisture, WHERE to keep them.... I've thought about doing a Cool Bot room but don't really have an area, not sure I want to built one outside but may have to... But until then I'll try a few things you've mentioned. I also appreciated the info on the different rinds. I have not tried the oil rubbed rind...will try that soon. Are there better cheeses to try that on than others? Again, thank you for this! There are lots of cheese making videos out there, and I've watched quite a few of yours...but the 'beyond' cheese making and into the options and aging, those videos are hard to find. This one is a treasure :)
I'm glad you like our videos! When it comes to the oil rubbed rinds it is just more difficult to keep cheeses in the right humidity. Many cheeses turn out great with it though.
Hey - thanks a lot for that video - now i think my cheeses are ammoniated, they have a very sharp taste which might be ammonia. not sure. I want to cry.
Help!!!!, my milk didn't coagulate, but I was able to press the curds, so now I have firm but soft cheese, do you think I can oil it and age it or it is a disaster, please help Thanks
Two questions: 1. Do you prefer the wine fridge over a regular small dorm fridge, and 2. were those potatoes in one of your fridges? I always thought that is bad for them?
I like the wine fridges because they can be set to a warmer temperature. Most regular fridges only go as high as 45 which is too cold for cheese aging. I don't think I had potatoes in the wine fridge. I only keep cheese and occasionally drinks in them. The potatoes live on the pantry floor.
@@HammockHavenFarm You may already know but there are very popular pid inkbird controllers that can be paired with a mini fridge / any fridge. Both temp and humidity models. Quite affordable. You can pay a bit more and geek out further by getting a wifi model and then you can see the data points remotely. This way you can dial in the humidity and temp and you don't have to be stuck with only wine fridges.
ID like to know more about the timing do you have to age cheese if so how do you determine how long and when it's done is this 2....4....6...week process a year Im it depends on what type and taste you're going for but how is it determined
It depends on the cheese and what depth of sharpness your looking for. Fresh cheeses like mozzarella you age for a day and discard anything that's 2 weeks old. Bloomy rind cheese, like camembert, you wrap it once the mould has covered it but that can range between 9 days and 3 weeks. After wrapping, you age it in a normal fridge for 4-6 weeks. For hard cheeses (considering at home you're going to make cheeses around 1 kilo in weight and not 70 kilo wheels) you can age for years, the minimum generally being 3 months. Cheddar- minimum 3 months, sharp cheddar 1 year, vintage 18 months but you can age it for 10 years if you want. This is where vacuum sealing has made home cheese making so much easier. I tend to age my cheeses like in the video for the recommended time and anything I want to age for months and years beyond that, I'll remove the wax/cloth banding if any, air dry for a day if there's moisture on it, then vac seal... you don't have to worry about humidity control or mould contamination getting in and stops them getting too hard to cut. In Italy, parmigiano reggiano is aged for 2 years minimum, 4 years for the really good stuff.
I "seeded" some of the hard cheese with the geotrichum. I also add the p. candidum and geotrichum to the brie type cheeses to get them to grow the white rinds. The other molds are simply in the environment.
All of our cheeses are goat cheese. We have looked into getting some raw cow milk and testing a few things but we haven't gotten far with that as of now. -Chase
Thanks very much for this! Affinage is the least described aspect of cheese making as far as I can tell. As you learn more, I'd really appreciate updates :-)
It's kind of early days (I've only done 3 cheeses this way so far), but based on some information I've pieced together from various sources, I seem to have stumbled on an awesome early process for natural rinds. The key is that early colonization of yeasts (like geotrichum candidum) on the rind will all but completely eliminate blue mold.
First, try your best to avoid any sharp edges on your cheeses. For example, in your caciotta, the place where the follower was too small, created a bit of a crease. Blue mold *loves* these sharp edges. I have a fast draining mold with many holes. If I press the cheese without a cloth, I get stippling on the rind. This stippling is a haven for blue. So as much as possible, keep the rind smooth. Currently, I'll press with cheese cloth and then I'll take it out of the mold (depress) and put it back in for a few hours without the cloth (no, or very little weight). This smooths out some of the marks from the cloth.
Next, wait 24 hours after salting/brining and then introduce yeasts. You can rub some off another young cheese and then rub it on the new cheese. Or, more easily, you can make a spray/morge and spray or wipe a solution onto the new cheese. You want to wait 24 hours after brining because the yeasts are not very tolerant of salt. Geotrichum candidum only has a tolerance of up to about 4% -- so if you make a spray or morge, then make sure that the solution has a maximum of about 3% salt. If you have no source of yeasts other than wild yeasts (or you just want to do that), then the advice I've heard is to hold the cheese at 65 f (18 C) for 24 hours to get the yeast established -- I tend to get blue when doing that as well, but by selectively removing the blue, eventually the yeast wins.
Next, let the yeasts grow. If you have sprayed or transferred from another cheese, it should only take about 1 day to start seeing some white on the rind. At this point you have a choice. If you are doing a washed rind, the general advice seems to be to add b. linens (or not) and start building up a "schmier". So you want to use a 3% salt brine (so as not to kill the geo). Use a cloth or a soft brush with enough brine so that you get a bit of "paste" coming up in the brine as you wash. Wash the top and the sides, but not the bottom. The next day flip and wash the new top and the sides. Keep doing that every day. The schmier will get thicker and thicker and eventually will start turning orange/red. Keep going until you have the rind you want.
If doing a patted, brushed or "mixed" rind (like a reblochon), let the yeast grow for about 4 days. At this point it should cover the whole cheese. You should then wash the cheese and remove all of the yeast/mold -- every trace of it -- with a 3% brine. Or, if you want a thicker rind, you can get a small amount of cheese salt (coarse salt seems better) and use it without water as an abrasive with a cloth to remove all of the yeast/mold (this is also good if your cheese is weeping a lot of whey as the salt will draw out the whey). The end result will look clean, but it really spreads the yeast and prepares the rind. The yeast should bloom in the next day or 2 and within 3 more days it will be *covered* with yeast. If doing a mixed rind (which is a washed rind that ends up having a yeast bloom on top), then start washing every second or third day for a few weeks until the b. linens shows up. Otherwise just live it, patting or brushing when the cover gets too thick.
From that point on, blue will *never* come back. Or at least that's the theory. So far with the 3 I've done so far it's been literally like magic. The main differences I've seen in this protocol is that some people use more salt, especially when doing a washed rind. B. linens requires a certain amount of salt. However, it is important to understand that B. linens will not grow until the pH of the rind is around 5.8 -- and *that* only happens because the yeast increases the pH. So if you make the yeast struggle with too much salt, then you only delay the b.linens -- and this lets blue get a foothold. For that reason, I think it's probably a good idea to limit the salt content for the first few days. You can up it later. Another difference is that many people like to add alcohol to their wash for washed rinds. I *think* the yeast is much more tolerant of the alcohol than mold, so this can really help if you are having problems with a washed rind. With patted or brushed rinds, it really seems important to avoid salt at the beginning because you *have* to get the yeast established. If you have salt on your rind, you *select* for blue, because it's tolerant of salt way up to around 12%, whereas the yeast is only tolerant up to 4%. This is apparently one of the biggest affinage mistakes I've made.
One more thing. I've found that once I get the yeast going, I can crank the humidity as high as I want. I use ripening boxes so the only limit is how often I mind wiping out the boxes.
Anyway, I hope you found this interesting. Hopefully I won't find out in the next few cheeses that it's all wrong :-) But like I said, at the moment it seems like magic.
Excellent advice. Thank you for sharing!
I stumbled upon this channel while looking for joke pics about cheesing at work. Anyway, I found myself mesmerized and couldn't stop watching. I mean I love cheese what joe doesn't but I never thought about the art of cheese making. Oddly enough, where I live I have caverns below my home and I've been told they would be ideal for making cheeses and wines in. Now I'm thinking....
You are a cheese BEAST!!! I am so amazed by all different cheeses you have to babysit and attend to. Thank you for sharing this! I only have my hillbilly cave for now, but next year I'll have a wine fridge and hope will be better.
I don't know anything about cheese making but I do know a tiny bit about refrigeration sensors. In my opinion you should crank up the humidifier and run a daily automated defrost cycle with a collection tray for water. You could plug the fridge on a timer with a one hr defrost(off). Drill an extra hole for gravity draining for that tray and voila. With how full the fridge is, there should be enough mass for the defrost cycle to not affect the cheese. I think that should eliminate the need for wet paper towels.
Like many home cheesemakers, I have struggled with the aging process. From the first line of this video I knew I had found the right one. Thanks, It was very helpful.
wow, cheese making is a very involved process. Your videos are great! You go over everything, so thorough!
Your videos are amazing so informative (great job Chase 👍) i have goats, i milk goats, but i haven't ventured any further into cheese making than soft cheeses & yogurt. Honestly everything I've learned has been from your videos and suggeations of books you reference. Thanks!
She's awesome! My go to for stepping into my hard cheeses for sure!
Learned a lot from you. Appreciate all of your videos!
I am just starting to make cheese from our small goat dairy. My first cheese is a gouda. I plan when the cheese is ready for the cave to either wax it or vacuum seal the cheese. Then after about 6 weeks open it for a taste test then reseal it. Good luck on your much more advanced cheese products!
As always...super informative. I learn so much on each video. Thank You!
You have a lot going on in your ageing spaces!...I'm impressed.
My go to is vacuum packing, which allows us to go away in our motorhome without worrying about my cheeses. I tend to make soft cheeses only in the cooler months because they need more attention, and we go away less often and for shorter periods. The humidity is higher during this time also, which helps with the ageing process.
Thanks for a very interesting look round your rather handsome cheeses!
Try doing this for moisture in the boxes. Drill some holes in a plastic tooth brush holder and cut a new sponge so it fits in the tooth brush holder.
Wet the sponge with distilled water and shake some of the water out. Place sponge in tooth brush holder and place in storage box. Do remove the
cap on the tooth brush holder as it is not needed. While you are at it, make another one for a cigar box humidor.
This is really impressive, talk about upping your game. Do you sell those cheeses? That just seemed like so many. I would love to try your cheese. Maybe one day we'll both make it to the ACS conference!
Josiah McCarthy we eat them and extras go to friends, family, and milk customers. I would love to be Grade A, but can’t afford it. Maybe if this UA-cam channel goes viral. Lol
OH MY GOOOD THAAAANK YOU SO MUCH !! such a usefull infos learned a lot from you
Thank you for watching!
What a deliciously comprehensive and helpfulvideo Kristin! Beautifully done as usual, Trevor, I mean Chase!
haha!!!
Thank you for answering some of my humidity questions. Not easy answers to get.
Wow i totally loved all your cheeses. I was wondering what you do with them all.
Edel Hanley we eat them and share with family, friends, and milk customers.
Lol! I was thinking that! Eat those delicious time consuming projects.
Beautiful cheeses from a beautiful soul
Homebrewers use an external digital thermostat on a regular fridge..good value on a large cheap fridge compared to a wine fridge.
Youve grown into a brand of your own? Wow. That's amazing.
Do you eat the natural rind? What if there is a little mold on there that you can't get to go away? Any tips on keeping the mold down to begin with?
Thank you😋😋 .... The most educational videos about cheese making I've seen..I enjoy your channel very much .... keep them comming🙏🙏
I age my cheddar cheese at room temperature in wax. I find I can get sharper flavors at room temperature more quickly and the wax keeps it sealed from any unwanted mold or bacteria.
Excellent video thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with us.
Fantastic video.. Where can I get more info on getting the right mould cultures to grow? I’ve been googling but I can’t find the right info. Also, if someone can point me to info on the blue cheese mould, that would be awesome...
Thanks, great info!
Thanks for sharing!!
Great vid, thanks. I did find the music distracting though, it was hard to follow what you were saying at times.
I'm sorry. We find that the music is louder and quieter depending on the device. We try to keep it low enough to provide ambiance without being distracting. We will try reducing it a little more next time.
Wonder if it's the device? I was able to heat you perfect.
@@BlueCactusDairyGoats I have noticed it's different even between the computer, the iPad, and the phone. It's hard to get it perfect across the board.
Great video full of useful tips. I'm a beginner, I've managed feta and mozzarella so far - I'm going to venture into hard cheese soon hopefully. Not sure if our cellar is the right place for ageing cheese - it's the coolest place in the house but it's rather dusty and musty.
Best of luck! Good to hear you had a good start. Thanks for watching -Chase
Thank you....Learned some great stuffs from your video....
did the bag work? I have a similar set up and sometimes the cave is more drier than other days.. I'll try the bag trick
I hope you try to make camembert cheese with cashews one day! It's delicious 🤤
This was an amazing video - thank you so much! I've been making cheeses for a long time (30+ year dairy goat owner ;) But I always struggle with the aging, the moisture, WHERE to keep them.... I've thought about doing a Cool Bot room but don't really have an area, not sure I want to built one outside but may have to... But until then I'll try a few things you've mentioned.
I also appreciated the info on the different rinds. I have not tried the oil rubbed rind...will try that soon. Are there better cheeses to try that on than others?
Again, thank you for this! There are lots of cheese making videos out there, and I've watched quite a few of yours...but the 'beyond' cheese making and into the options and aging, those videos are hard to find. This one is a treasure :)
I'm glad you like our videos! When it comes to the oil rubbed rinds it is just more difficult to keep cheeses in the right humidity. Many cheeses turn out great with it though.
Affinage means something more like refining, but cool video, just what i was looking for.
Excelente tu vídeo, muy didáctico te felicito. Saludos desde Caracas Venezuela.
Gracias por ver!
What is something like a fridge where you put cheese?
Hey - thanks a lot for that video - now i think my cheeses are ammoniated, they have a very sharp taste which might be ammonia. not sure. I want to cry.
Help!!!!, my milk didn't coagulate, but I was able to press the curds, so now I have firm but soft cheese, do you think I can oil it and age it or it is a disaster, please help Thanks
Thank you for sharing,,,,, kind regards from Lima Perú, Fernando
Two questions: 1. Do you prefer the wine fridge over a regular small dorm fridge, and 2. were those potatoes in one of your fridges? I always thought that is bad for them?
I like the wine fridges because they can be set to a warmer temperature. Most regular fridges only go as high as 45 which is too cold for cheese aging. I don't think I had potatoes in the wine fridge. I only keep cheese and occasionally drinks in them. The potatoes live on the pantry floor.
@@HammockHavenFarm You may already know but there are very popular pid inkbird controllers that can be paired with a mini fridge / any fridge. Both temp and humidity models. Quite affordable. You can pay a bit more and geek out further by getting a wifi model and then you can see the data points remotely. This way you can dial in the humidity and temp and you don't have to be stuck with only wine fridges.
Crystal Blue Cactus said to check you out. Hope you start posting if you get more subscribers.
ID like to know more about the timing do you have to age cheese if so how do you determine how long and when it's done is this 2....4....6...week process a year Im it depends on what type and taste you're going for but how is it determined
It depends on the cheese and what depth of sharpness your looking for. Fresh cheeses like mozzarella you age for a day and discard anything that's 2 weeks old. Bloomy rind cheese, like camembert, you wrap it once the mould has covered it but that can range between 9 days and 3 weeks. After wrapping, you age it in a normal fridge for 4-6 weeks. For hard cheeses (considering at home you're going to make cheeses around 1 kilo in weight and not 70 kilo wheels) you can age for years, the minimum generally being 3 months. Cheddar- minimum 3 months, sharp cheddar 1 year, vintage 18 months but you can age it for 10 years if you want. This is where vacuum sealing has made home cheese making so much easier. I tend to age my cheeses like in the video for the recommended time and anything I want to age for months and years beyond that, I'll remove the wax/cloth banding if any, air dry for a day if there's moisture on it, then vac seal... you don't have to worry about humidity control or mould contamination getting in and stops them getting too hard to cut. In Italy, parmigiano reggiano is aged for 2 years minimum, 4 years for the really good stuff.
I am puzzled as to what do you do with all the cheese that you make?????????????????
The mold kind of freaks me out but I know that's supposed to happen. But does the mold grow automatically or do you seed the cheese with mold spores?
I "seeded" some of the hard cheese with the geotrichum. I also add the p. candidum and geotrichum to the brie type cheeses to get them to grow the white rinds. The other molds are simply in the environment.
@@HammockHavenFarm you also seeded the P. roquefortii in the 2 blues, no?
Yes!
Living off your own land and animals. That's the way to go!
Thank you
What do you do with all your cheeses?
Great! But the music is distracting.
Was the temperature F or C?
F.
If I was at her house, I would be hard pressed not to sample all of those delicious looking cheeses.
Those are all goat cheese?
All of our cheeses are goat cheese. We have looked into getting some raw cow milk and testing a few things but we haven't gotten far with that as of now. -Chase