She's right from my experience. It doesn't cause issues, but it can be an environment that will allow underlying issues to be brought to the surface. I struggled with a form of what she describes, and it definitely was not religion based and I began to see elements of it that existed in non religious areas of my life. I got over it. One of the biggest helps from at least the religious side was better understanding the nature and love of God and forgiveness, which carries over into the secular part of life, self forgiveness and just letting things go, and not giving into the urge to ruminate on things. In time, it subsided.
9 years ago my Scrupulosity became so intense I couldn't eat or sleep and lived in a state of near constant anxiety. I was deeply afraid I would lose my salvation and I was willing to do anything and I mean anything if it meant doing what I thought was following God. Recovery began when in a particularly brutal moment I said something I had never been taught to say. I said simply enough "I don't know". Maybe I'd go to hell, maybe God was upset with me, maybe I was sinning. When I was willing not to know I began to truly exercise faith for the first time in my life, but it felt like sinning at the time. I'm now married, much better, and a mental health counselor.
About a decade ago, I read many accounts of people who grew up in Evangelical Protestant Christianity and loved talking about how repressive and damaging and traumatic it was. That helped inoculate me against thinking that scrupulosity was any kind of peculiar or particular LDS phenomenon. Also learning about psychology. Complexes, neuroses etc. will take advantage of any religion. Even people who profess a belief in a no-guilt, New-Agey kind of worldview will find a way to be scrupulous about it.
Knowing that atonement was the plan and not the back up plan, helped my scrupulocity a lot. Parents tend to worry more about ensuring that their children always do the right thing, rather than teaching them about Gods forgiveness!
Consider The Strait and Narrow Path: On the left - forbidden paths and the like. On the right - toxic perfectionism, scrupulosity, even phariseeism. Don't let fear of the one side veer you into the other.
My experience with scrupulosity was awful, but after the wrestle it made my testimony of Jesus and redemption even stronger, helped me be more attuned to the true whisperings of the Holy Ghost, and more compassionate towards others. If any one out there is struggling, it does get better - don’t be afraid to get help.
Sometimes in the church we compound scrupulosity for those who suffer from it when we put more focus more on keeping commandments than God's love and mercy.
Having joined a church six months ago and recently decided to leave. I can 100% confirm that whilst it doesn't seem to create mental illness outside of childhood trauma which is pretty universal, it does absolutely have a way of making your mental health worse rather than better and those who misuse the faith are very clearly mentally unstable. It's as if religion, or religion that can be used to exercise power is attractive to those with mental health issues. I can see how the LDS faith can help some people with mental health issues, take advantage perhaps of other people and as in my case make it worse. However the LDS church Is unique I think in that, if I can say so, JS to people who know even a little, very very very clearly potentially at least had epilepsy or something similar. Doesn't remove from his status. But it does speak to a faith that is generally understanding of mental health even if some practitioners of the faith are oblivious with the blatant undertones. Give it a try, if it works for you great. If it doesn't, walk... I will add though I've had some cold shouldering since I left. I understand it a little but also especially unhelpful. Anyway, that's my input.
I’ve certainly suffered from toxic self-judgment as a result of certain exhortations to more strictly observe the spirit of the law without committing to a growth mindset (or even simply interpreting the exhortation according to the dictates of my own conscience (after hearing all that the speaker has to say about the subject)).
I wouldn't agree with the logic that because scrupulosity appears in all churches at the same rate then scrupulosity is not linked to religion. Even though I wouldn't agree with that, I do think the therapist made some great points about how to reframe your mind with living God's commandments. Maybe a different title like "how can you identify symptoms of scrupulosity" or "what is religious scrupulosity?" or "how a faithful therapist can help with religious scrupulosity" would've been better.
I don’t think that’s what she said though. She said that according to research, scrupulosity appears in all churches at the same rate and so it has no link with the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, she said that the lds church does not cause scrupulosity. The question was whether the church causes this. That was the answer from the therapist.
No one thinks it will happen to them but one day you will wake up and I promise it'll get easier. Don't doubt your doubts, talk to a real therapist not a social worker who works for the church. She might not be wrong but she's likely unqualified to make these determinations. I never thought I would be on the other side but I'm here and it gets easier.
She is not just a social worker. She is a licensed clinical social worker which means she is as qualified to provide mental health services as a therapist.
I wish she'd driven more at the causes because it's misleading to say "no...the Church doesn't cause scrupulosity," which kind of misses the target. While the Church may not directly "cause" it, scrupulosity is ABSOLUTELY a byproduct of 1,000s of years of Judeo-Christian culture. For those who are more sensitive (a.k.a., ANXIOUS) to false Christian ideology that still exist in our day, then, absolutely, yes, Church culture and teachings can be a major contributing factor. NOTE: I am not saying Church doctrine is wrong. I am saying CULTURALLY, we still have much work to do to root out falsehoods that span all the way back to the scattering of Israel, the era of the Deuteronomists, and modern pseudo doctrines handed to us through the dark ages. Cue: the allegory of the Olive Trees in Jacob 5. I think it's vital to a) not blame the Church, but b) acknowledge there are still serious cultural problems that are causing many to have serious anxiety issues.
you have no evidence to support what you've said. You can't provide evidence that it's unique to, or more prevalent in those who practice religion. Engaging in religious beliefs may allow underlying issues to come to the surface, but those tendancies existed regardless and had, and would have manifest themselves otherwise. its almost like you didn't actually understand anything that was said.
Where are the studies that show lds don't have higher rates of scrupulosity? My quick Google search yielded only byu studies and those showed mixed results and pointed towards yes they do.
I think religious OCD is unique to Mormonism. In Christianity we have assurance of our salvation through faith in Jesus Christ because of his atonement for our sins. We believe in salvation by faith alone which Mormons believe gives Christians a free license to sin, but it’s the opposite. When we accept Christ as our Savior we begin a process of sanctification through the power of the Holy Spirit and good works and a more Christ-like life are a natural outcome of our faith. This gives us a blanket of peace and hope instead of anxiety and despair. Meanwhile Mormons are stressed and anxious with religious OCD because they aren’t worthy of salvation and/or exaltation. They know they are sinful and never fully repentant and therefore unworthy. It’s really a doctrinal problem in Mormonism starting with how they define their god and their version of Jesus as just exalted men and not our Creator, the one true God. Mormon gods have a god who had a god who had a god who had a god, yet God tells us there were no gods before Him and none after. And John tells us all things were created through Jesus, that He was with God in the beginning (not just an intelligence matter near Kolob) and is God. Mormonism is a great deceit, Satan’s church tbh with poor Mormons as victims really. We pray they will wake up and come to know Jesus as their eternal Creator and Savior. ❤ 🙏
@@henryponnefz1444 of course, faith inspires good works, but faith alone is needed for salvation! No temple baptism, tithing, plural marriage, temple ceremony and satanic rituals, just faith in Jesus! Saved by grace through faith!
She's right from my experience. It doesn't cause issues, but it can be an environment that will allow underlying issues to be brought to the surface. I struggled with a form of what she describes, and it definitely was not religion based and I began to see elements of it that existed in non religious areas of my life. I got over it. One of the biggest helps from at least the religious side was better understanding the nature and love of God and forgiveness, which carries over into the secular part of life, self forgiveness and just letting things go, and not giving into the urge to ruminate on things. In time, it subsided.
9 years ago my Scrupulosity became so intense I couldn't eat or sleep and lived in a state of near constant anxiety. I was deeply afraid I would lose my salvation and I was willing to do anything and I mean anything if it meant doing what I thought was following God.
Recovery began when in a particularly brutal moment I said something I had never been taught to say. I said simply enough "I don't know". Maybe I'd go to hell, maybe God was upset with me, maybe I was sinning. When I was willing not to know I began to truly exercise faith for the first time in my life, but it felt like sinning at the time. I'm now married, much better, and a mental health counselor.
About a decade ago, I read many accounts of people who grew up in Evangelical Protestant Christianity and loved talking about how repressive and damaging and traumatic it was. That helped inoculate me against thinking that scrupulosity was any kind of peculiar or particular LDS phenomenon. Also learning about psychology. Complexes, neuroses etc. will take advantage of any religion. Even people who profess a belief in a no-guilt, New-Agey kind of worldview will find a way to be scrupulous about it.
Knowing that atonement was the plan and not the back up plan, helped my scrupulocity a lot. Parents tend to worry more about ensuring that their children always do the right thing, rather than teaching them about Gods forgiveness!
Consider The Strait and Narrow Path:
On the left - forbidden paths and the like.
On the right - toxic perfectionism, scrupulosity, even phariseeism.
Don't let fear of the one side veer you into the other.
My experience with scrupulosity was awful, but after the wrestle it made my testimony of Jesus and redemption even stronger, helped me be more attuned to the true whisperings of the Holy Ghost, and more compassionate towards others. If any one out there is struggling, it does get better - don’t be afraid to get help.
Very interesting, thank you for sharing 🌸
Sometimes in the church we compound scrupulosity for those who suffer from it when we put more focus more on keeping commandments than God's love and mercy.
Having joined a church six months ago and recently decided to leave. I can 100% confirm that whilst it doesn't seem to create mental illness outside of childhood trauma which is pretty universal, it does absolutely have a way of making your mental health worse rather than better and those who misuse the faith are very clearly mentally unstable. It's as if religion, or religion that can be used to exercise power is attractive to those with mental health issues. I can see how the LDS faith can help some people with mental health issues, take advantage perhaps of other people and as in my case make it worse. However the LDS church Is unique I think in that, if I can say so, JS to people who know even a little, very very very clearly potentially at least had epilepsy or something similar. Doesn't remove from his status. But it does speak to a faith that is generally understanding of mental health even if some practitioners of the faith are oblivious with the blatant undertones. Give it a try, if it works for you great. If it doesn't, walk... I will add though I've had some cold shouldering since I left. I understand it a little but also especially unhelpful. Anyway, that's my input.
I’ve certainly suffered from toxic self-judgment as a result of certain exhortations to more strictly observe the spirit of the law without committing to a growth mindset (or even simply interpreting the exhortation according to the dictates of my own conscience (after hearing all that the speaker has to say about the subject)).
Great discussion!
Hmmmm 🤔
I wouldn't agree with the logic that because scrupulosity appears in all churches at the same rate then scrupulosity is not linked to religion.
Even though I wouldn't agree with that, I do think the therapist made some great points about how to reframe your mind with living God's commandments. Maybe a different title like "how can you identify symptoms of scrupulosity" or "what is religious scrupulosity?" or "how a faithful therapist can help with religious scrupulosity" would've been better.
I don’t think that’s what she said though. She said that according to research, scrupulosity appears in all churches at the same rate and so it has no link with the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, she said that the lds church does not cause scrupulosity. The question was whether the church causes this. That was the answer from the therapist.
No one thinks it will happen to them but one day you will wake up and I promise it'll get easier. Don't doubt your doubts, talk to a real therapist not a social worker who works for the church. She might not be wrong but she's likely unqualified to make these determinations. I never thought I would be on the other side but I'm here and it gets easier.
She is not just a social worker. She is a licensed clinical social worker which means she is as qualified to provide mental health services as a therapist.
Why don't people talk about the poisons we are fed on a daily basis by retail corporations so they can make a few more $$$$?
Lol. Why don't people post comments that are relevant to the discussion?
tell it to ruby franke guys
There's nut jobs that are a part of every religion and no religion, bud. Come up with something useful to say.
I have told it to Ruby Franke. Right to her face. What relevance does she have to the everyday Latter-day Saint?
I wish she'd driven more at the causes because it's misleading to say "no...the Church doesn't cause scrupulosity," which kind of misses the target. While the Church may not directly "cause" it, scrupulosity is ABSOLUTELY a byproduct of 1,000s of years of Judeo-Christian culture. For those who are more sensitive (a.k.a., ANXIOUS) to false Christian ideology that still exist in our day, then, absolutely, yes, Church culture and teachings can be a major contributing factor. NOTE: I am not saying Church doctrine is wrong. I am saying CULTURALLY, we still have much work to do to root out falsehoods that span all the way back to the scattering of Israel, the era of the Deuteronomists, and modern pseudo doctrines handed to us through the dark ages. Cue: the allegory of the Olive Trees in Jacob 5. I think it's vital to a) not blame the Church, but b) acknowledge there are still serious cultural problems that are causing many to have serious anxiety issues.
you have no evidence to support what you've said. You can't provide evidence that it's unique to, or more prevalent in those who practice religion. Engaging in religious beliefs may allow underlying issues to come to the surface, but those tendancies existed regardless and had, and would have manifest themselves otherwise. its almost like you didn't actually understand anything that was said.
Where are the studies that show lds don't have higher rates of scrupulosity? My quick Google search yielded only byu studies and those showed mixed results and pointed towards yes they do.
Try "Religion, Mental Health, and the Latter-Day Saints: A Review of Literature 2005-2022"
Amazing interview!! Thank you Claire!
I think religious OCD is unique to Mormonism. In Christianity we have assurance of our salvation through faith in Jesus Christ because of his atonement for our sins. We believe in salvation by faith alone which Mormons believe gives Christians a free license to sin, but it’s the opposite. When we accept Christ as our Savior we begin a process of sanctification through the power of the Holy Spirit and good works and a more Christ-like life are a natural outcome of our faith. This gives us a blanket of peace and hope instead of anxiety and despair. Meanwhile Mormons are stressed and anxious with religious OCD because they aren’t worthy of salvation and/or exaltation. They know they are sinful and never fully repentant and therefore unworthy. It’s really a doctrinal problem in Mormonism starting with how they define their god and their version of Jesus as just exalted men and not our Creator, the one true God. Mormon gods have a god who had a god who had a god who had a god, yet God tells us there were no gods before Him and none after. And John tells us all things were created through Jesus, that He was with God in the beginning (not just an intelligence matter near Kolob) and is God. Mormonism is a great deceit, Satan’s church tbh with poor Mormons as victims really. We pray they will wake up and come to know Jesus as their eternal Creator and Savior. ❤ 🙏
So you don't know about Christianity at all. Religious OCD is common in every church
You have some misunderstandings our doctrine. Rates of religious OCD are not higher in the Church of Latter Day Saints compared to other religions.
@@jsscbrwn or perhaps you misunderstand the hole you stand in as a Mormon
FAITH WITHOUT WORK IS DEAD AND WITHOUT FAITH THERE IS NO GRACE FOR THAT PERSON.
@@henryponnefz1444 of course, faith inspires good works, but faith alone is needed for salvation! No temple baptism, tithing, plural marriage, temple ceremony and satanic rituals, just faith in Jesus! Saved by grace through faith!