Do Exotic Cable Vendors Really Believe In Their Own Claims?
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- Опубліковано 17 сер 2019
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Something I've always wondered is whether or not the exotic cable manufacturers truly believe in the pseudoscience and snake oil they often purport in order to sell their cables. Many of their claims are based on half truths or downright nonsensical jargon, yet many of them are very passionate about it. What gives? Let's explore that topic.
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#avcables #speakercables #audiophile - Наука та технологія
At Audioquest they're not buying test equipment, they're buying Ferraris.
Sorry about the mic clipping. Something boosted the mic level from my last stream despite I had the same settings.
How about one on power cables
If you had a microphone cable from isotek you'd have no clipping in this video.
@@thegrimyeaper LOL, it's clipping in the preamp, nothing to do with cable.
at least you are looking to improve/fix/adjust it. its something to def upgrade also on . always a fan.
But where's the link to Techno dad's video?
Ok I saw someone commenting on Kimber Kable interconnects making a difference. I have to chime in. At the advice of a buddy I order Kimber interconnects but I had to wait on them so I ordered cheapos off Amazon that I could have the next Day. The Kimbers were their budget ones at over $200 a set for 3 sets. The Amazon ones were 6 for $25. I used those and when the Kimbers came in changed and could NOT tell the differance. Since they are quick and easy to change I have run blind tests with a few people and not one, nope not one of them could tell the differance! I am using the Kimbers as I paid good money for them but not because there is a difference.
If you do not have a trained ear you might not hear a difference. Unfortunately, I have a trained ear and hear very subtle differences. Cable and speaker wire can really make a big difference. Richard Vandersteen has the patent on adding battery on the cables. He told AudioQuest to do it. He did not take a dime for it. He is very respected in HiFi audio.
@@davewatson5066 adding battery on cables oh God
@@davewatson5066 trained ears? I wonder if your trained ears could pick out the Kimber every time whilst you do not know what is in use?
@@tenveri exactly. What on earth is that even capable of doing, diddly squat.
@@davewatson5066 🤣🤣🤣
I love these videos! Keep fighting the good fight for truth in audio my friend! 😉👍
Please do a video on interconnects and phono cables. Loved the Exotic Cable video.
Alan Shaw of Harbeth Speakers here in the UK bought a reel of the Amazon basic, took all the measurements of it like you do , he is well impressed with it and took it along to the Bristol HiFi show 2020 just before all the Covid took over our lives. I went to the show and the speakers were awesome with his two rooms well packed.
Incredible video Gene. Spot on as usual. I bet if you raise the mic wire from the floor, freeze it for a while and slap a battery on it, your voice would be 10 times more clear in the videos 😅
LOL I found the mic gain was set for +30dB in my soundcard to work better with a different streaming program. I had to change it to +10dB for OBS to avoid the clipping. I'm a neophyte with this stuff ;)
Thank you for discussing this. You are now my favorite UA-cam channel!!!
Thank you so much for all your informative videos. I am one of those people who got stuck with massive amounts of audioquest cables which I started to sell and using all the components original power cords, because I blind tested for about a month before I made my decision. Any suggestion as far as brands and gages for mcintosh amps and rel subs thank you
I can hear you much better than some of your previous videos. Which is nice because my car stereo sucks and I have trouble hearing some things went driving.
hello this topic bout cables is is necessaries specialy if you don't want snake oil keep going audioholics and thank you for you reviews we need the truth no BS and hello from Australia but i am from Uruguay
Thanks for all your great videos!
Awhile back before I saw this video (lol)
I bought 2 of audio quest cables for my 2 subwoofers, and I noticed they have a grounding connector at both ends;
I’m not experiencing any subwoofer hum, so I don’t have to ground them, but where do you ground them to?
My subwoofers has no option for grounding; my Denon does, but for turntable.
And is this snake oil?
So which speaker cable brand is good to buy?
Hi gene I would like to have your opinion on this setup. Is this a good setup. 7.1 arrangement. 6 Polk t15, 1 t30 center, and a psw 10, and a onkyo to-nr676 reciver. It’s a budget system for the next few years till I can afford klipsh.
Lol I use high speed hdmi cables that I bought from the dollar store and they lasted 6 years. And my 14 gauge audiostream (Paradigm) speaker wire I bought 23 years ago and it still works great.
After having had to quit my job as a university professor because of wage theft costing me too much, I found I could not get hired to sell audio-video equipment at Best Buy and any home theater installers because I have my PhD in mathematical physics with graduate course work and papers co-authored on the kind of algorithms used to upgrade to 4k, the rod and cone resolution of the eye vs the resolution of 4k at the closest recommended distance from the screen, the mathematical significance of 2^10 dynamic range vs 10^8 for the RGB, and I fear the threat I must have posed to their selling of cables. Dishonesty is the backbone of business success in universities and audio-video pricing. I can't understand why I could build a vacuum tube amplifier for much less than $2000 which I think is of better design than one with the same output tubes selling for $350,000. I build my own stuff whenever I can because even if I could have afforded it before I became unemployed I don't trust many manufacturers.
I suppose they believe in people's gullibility.
BTW, your voice is clipping, volume may be set a little too hot? Maybe you could use compression....
Great video, and spot on.
A better cable would help lol.
@@paulallen7848 Should have used Monster Cable.
14:28 Just look at the audio levels!
Love when you break out the battery pic. Lol
I understand about the speaker cables and the sales pitch a good dealer would recommend affordable cables.I just have one question in regards USB cable to mini (I-mac (Roon software) to Mojo DAC Is a normal cable that you use for Handphone or a better product?
Your thoughts on Zeskit hdmi cables ...
Bought a set 2.0b 2M,6'7" high speed with ethernet with cinema plus also it came with customer service for roku issues.
Also the Belkin 48 Gbps cables,your thoughts..
Really enjoy and take your advice on the topics you cover as well.
Thank you, much appreciated...
People need to read and understand (it's an easy read), Carl Sagan's, Demon Haunted World. This book describes the inherent stupidity/gullibility of many persons. Mark Twain also hit at these notions in a more oblique yet impactful manner. My belief system is many people are devious and not good.
Can you tell me the chair brand you're sitting on here? Looks very comfy!
I went into a shop not knowing it was a high end cable shop in tokyo once. Saw a passive speaker cable L 30 cm/ D 5cm!! Silver/copper wrapped by stainless mesh. For 50,000 jpyen.
We are lucky to know the truth and for having Audioholics.
You see them all the time at hifi shows and fairs. I do not entirely agree with this video. A lot of cables do sound different and sometimes better.
"Properly engineered cables are sonically indistinguishable"
**stern look**
**mic drop**
Gene Della Sala 19:22
Haha! Subtle but that stern look is there.
It's all the same. Only the gauge will change. Every day, it seems like they're lying away.
The CL2 speaker cable that you recommend is exactly what I use, except I use 14 gauge, 'cause 12 is too thick and unwieldy, and I don't use long runs, or have megawatt amps.
Personally I use Monster wire and then just tin the ends. Should I be using banana clips?
Parts express sells - at modest price - the most beautiful 8 gauge cable you can use with speakers. It has ruby red see-through insulation. I use both the ruby and the black (for the -).
how important is the eARC to a receiver?
Hi! awesome videos! do you like the 12tc better than 8tc? thanks
I had Audioquest CV8 (36V) speaker cables (about 450 euro/usd) in direct compasrison with QED 79 (about 3 euro/usd per meter). I kept the QED and sold the audioquest.
Hello. Haver you tested the áudio vídeo cables that came ínside the equipment box? It is interesting to show.
I know one thing, 100% fact, very easy to listen. I had some Supra cables - 5usd/m - 12 Gauge - sounded ok. I switched to a readily made (with banana plugs, shielding, etc etc) Triangle Symphonie cable, 2x2.5m, 13 gauge (so lower gauge), 140 USD total - it sounded audibly better - more top end extension, less harsh, and by far most notably - more punchy bass. And normally, bigger awg means meatier sound/low end. Yet in this case, a more quality cable, lower gauge, better low end response. I'm not advocating 1000 usd cable. Not even curious to get it. But in this case, a 70 usd Supra 12 awg (price includes bananas) cable sounds definitely worse than a 140 USD Triangle Symphonie 13 awg (already built, shielded, banana plugs included) cable.
Prove it.
Where is the link to the Shawn/Sean video mentioned at the end?
Hey Gene,
Thanks for a great channel and thank you for casting light on some of this silliness.
I will say this though. Decent cables can make a huge difference.
Best $20 i ever spent was on a Tara Labs RSC link pre-out main-in jumper for a Sony ES integrated amp.
It truly was night and day for the cost of "might as well give it a shot it's only $20".
I've also experience visible and audible artifacts from marginal HDMI cables, where the before sparklies and dropouts the signal actually degraded.
That shouldn't be construed as me advocating "high-end" HDMI cables, just that bad cables can actually impede performance without dropping out.
My guess is there's enough error correction to handle some transmission loss before the HDMI controller gives up.
As for interconnects and speaker cables I've definitely experienced improvements in running entry level Kimber and Audioquest over the crap that comes in the box.
That being said, it very quickly devolves into an expensive exercise in futility.
I know people who've wasted thousands of dollars on buying cable set after cable set (incidentally how I got most of my "High-End" cables) and never got any closer to their perceived nirvana.
Right now I'm running Monoprice interconnects and 12 gauge Monoprice speaker cables across the board and I'm more than happy with it.
I guess common sense goes a long way ?
Ohh. And don't even get me started on the idiocy that is "High-End" power cables.
$15k for a Nordost Valhalla power cable ????
Unless you're running that straight out of your own personal nuclear reactor or RTG how is that going to make any difference considering the, at the very least, hundreds of yards of "cheapest cable that'll do the job" that runs to your breaker box ?
I enjoy listening your presentation. Great!
Hi Gene. Thank you for your continued educational series on audio equipment. Because I have heard a different opinion, I have some questions. Another youtuber states that if you are going to put extra money into cables, it should be in power cables. Not speaker or component cables. The idea is that if your power cables are close to speaker or component cables they could potentially cause interference because of high current. Is this true? Also are we trying to prevent other household appliances from interfering with sensitive audio equipment? Eg. microwave oven.
Also I thought I one heard you say that you use coaxial cable for speaker cables due to low cost, low resistance and better shielding. Is this true or was I sleep watching. (Dont laph.. i have been told that I occasionally) Finnaly if I use coax do I need special connectors?
Thank you for your time.
Pat.. mass with no class
Laughable!
My formula for exotic audio cables = Bulk 14 or 12 AWG (Polk or amazon basics)cables + shower hoses with nice patterns + decent banana plugs. For proof and peer review, I just take a picture and post it on social media.
I tend to think that if those selling this stuff really believed their own claims they would be more open and honest in how they conduct product demonstrations, such as level matching, using the same source material and EQ settings etc.
I use 8-AWG 4 conductor. Really good at full volume .
Thanks for the video. think for speaker cables that AWG is the most important factor, same for power chords. maybe for HDMI 18GB cables it's a different story and you need to get something a bit better for long runs (30 ft+)
agreed
Guess I'd ask what's your best cables?
Isn't the purpose of a cable to do nothing - just carry the signal from Point A to Point B?
I don't know a lot of cables and for me the solution was to by cables from that same brand as my speakers. Seems to be a good desigion.
Laughable!
Muce better than your last stream vid about your AVR's you have liked over the years. That vid had on screen logo's all over it, not good for those with OLED tv's. this video looks great.
Great Gene how true. Why are you not allowed to have your speakers cable on the floor?
*Raises hand*. Because ... my godammed Roomba eats them! :D
Static electricity bht this is when you have carpet. Mine are laying on the floor with no issues
@Club Soda HORSE SHIT!
@Club Soda BACTERIA?! ARE YOU FOR REAL?!
@@bryanp4827 Do you know what humor is? Fool!
Hello Gene, Im not big on audio cables either. I basically just use a cable thats well shielded and inexpensive. I did however see a difference back in the day on S-Video cables. I had been using monster 1000 cables for my progressive scan CRT(cutting edge at time) and switched to Audioquest S5 solid silver S-video cables and the difference in contrast was enough to throw the CRT out of calibration. . That's about only time I ever noticed a difference in cables-mabye it was the silver and much better shielding in this case.
video cables do matter. If you don't have good shielding or maintain characteristic impedance what you said can happen. Has nothing to do with solid vs stranded conductors though.
Thanks for reply. I wasn't sure about the solid cable theory.
I love your content, I wish Danny from GR research would watch this as i think he is either selling snake oil or just does not understand
Where can we find true wire and interconnects that are not snake oil? Ones that are finished with terminals etc.
Straightwire also uses star quad geometry
I have some amazonbasics for my tuner and my dac , but yes I'm gonna swap them for the LOWEST of audioquest : tower and evergreen . just so I know it MAYBE better made.
Great video Gene 👍🍺
Late to the show but love the T-Shirt
Hello from Pamplona, Spain. Maths don't lie
I made that mistake, 'cause one of my speakers is right next to my rack, and the other is 6-8 feet away, and I realized after I cut them the same length I should have made one a foot or two shorter, and the other one longer, and now the long one is barely long enough! And, I only had 12 feet of it, which I cut exactly in half, so I can't make a longer one until I buy some more.
Video quality at 1080p is much better!
This will be tldr for many, but if you're interested in how much your mind can alter perception, a number of years ago, I came across an exercise that really demonstrates how profoundly our brains shape what we perceive. Put your arms straight out in front of you, palms out, fingers pointing up, shoulder-width separation. Now, bend your left arm so that the left hand is about at your right elbow while keeping it in front of shoulder. What size does your left hand appear compared to the right? If you're wired like a normal human being, they will look the same size. Now move both hands in, so that the left hand occludes the right. Now what relative size do you see? The left hand will have suddenly 'grown' to appear twice the size, which it *is* since it's half the distance away. Tricky tricky brain.
There are equally amazing aural illusions, like the McGurk Effect, where what you hear depends on what you see, the *same* sound is heard as 'bar' or 'far' depending on which word was actually said [but not heard] in the test video. See "Can you trust your ears" by AsapSCIENCE on youtube for that and other illusions.
What we perceive is a creation of our brains, it's way far from some kind of one to one mapping like, well, a map. All of that said, most of these guys know what they're selling is garbage, you can tell by how often they cheat in some way. Gene has given us many examples of catching them, e.g., tweaking the volumes in tests so their stuff is just a wee bit louder, or hiding really long cable runs, etc.
I bought a pair of these super expensive, super elite Audioquest shoelaces. I really swear by them. They allow you to tie your shoes so much better and easier. I think I can feel the difference. Heck, I think I even walk/run faster and with less effort. So forget the stereo cables. But definitely on the shoelaces. 🤪🥳
I have definitely heard differences in system before how much different depends upon on the system quality.
I think there's any difference to be heard from any cable it is a change in impedance that could be heard.
Wire has no gain. It can only deliver signal intact, or mitigate a part of the spectrum. It can also distort as well as omit.
Those fancy soldered or crimped on connectors? At the end of the day, that's just an additional piece to alter the signal. Quad eutectic, ultrasonic or crimped, it's still adding to a wire.
Hey Gene, I've noticed that your audio is always distorting in your recent videos with the lapel mic... Might want to turn the microphone gain down a bit. :)
I know, it's a software issue.
@@Audioholics you sure it's not those cheap cables you're using?? ;))
Hey Gene, curious on your thoughts about magnets effecting sound either on speaker wire of near equipment? Thanks
Magnets produce a DC field while electrical current is AC. Not a problem.
Audioholics ok thanks
@@Audioholicsmoving charges in a magnetic field cause a force upon the charge. Doubt there would much of an audible difference, though.
@Descartes, Rene a static magnetic field does Not affect an electric field. Placing a magnet near a speaker wire will do nothing.
@@Audioholics F=qv x B where F is force, q is charge, v is velocity and B is magnetic field, and x is the cross product. Charge moving through a wire in the presence of a magnetic field is described by this equation. This means there is a force exerted on the moving charges.
Gene. - do have q look at tellurium q. Would love to get your thoughts
There is a big difference in cables. Got a set from Anti Cables for 130 dollars, interconnects and speaker wire, used on the net. Sound better than my more expensive plastic jacket ones. It's not about technical stuff it's about listening. With my old McIntosh and new Fortes the soundstage is amazing. Solid deep bass as well. Now I am going to try out some parallell bi wiring as well with mye new jumpers from Anti Cables. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.... not meassurements.
"There is a big difference in cables" Not trolling, but this is an extreme open ended statement. Oh course "There is a big difference in cables" if you roll out 200' of 24 gauge vs. 10' of simple 14 gauge "zip" (also known as speaker wire). Next, " It's not about technical stuff it's about listening", uhm... w/o the "technical stuff" your "listening" will suffer. The "technical stuff" allows an engineer to design based on known real facts, facts like the human ear/brain connection only allows a very tiny small spectrum portion compared to radio frequency spectrums. Again, not trying to troll but hopefully get you and others to understand audio engineering which is ultra simple compared to radio engineering comes from years of study and practice, not off the back section of some magazine selling their shiny wares at a huge profit knowing average "audiophiles" are ignorant to the simple facts of even ohm's law. Enough teaching for today. Be wise and listen to real engineers and even electronic technicians who are not selling you anything.
There is so much nonsense about custom headphone cables as well.
So many reviews where people claim those cables change sound , tonality and speed and what not.
So cable manufacturers want us to believe before Monster cable in the 80s we were listening to crap with our zipcords. Lol
In this case Wong is right.
This type of question is always difficult when a person's livelihood is at stake. Most people want to feel good about themselves so they will often avoid learning the truth if the truth will impact their wallet. We live in a post modern world of relativism regarding truths in the minds of many people so they'll often assume that there is no real solid truth or science. The free energy people are a large group of people who see physics as subjective until they run experiments of their own when they could have saved time and money and read a physics book instead. In an old Paul simon song the words go like this, 'a man he believes what he wants to believe and disregards the rest'.
So there wouldn’t be any improvement by using better speaker cables with Martin Logan’s? Vs just any well made 10guage ?
unlikely.
Audioholics thank u for relying
Audio is a little distorted
I make and sell cable online and I guarantee my cables sound just as good as audioquest and mine sell for a fraction of the cost. Its like Gene said, i buy materials in bulk, cut, solder and wrap to order but im not "designing" or "creating" anything. I just like making cables lol.
I guess it gives us hope... something to make us feel better about. Us audiophiles lost our ignorance once we started listening to high end equipment and we are never fulfilled. Buying nice cables is something that makes us feel like we did something different. Yeah you don't need an oil change after 2000 miles, but it feels nice, lie youre making a difference.
The placebo effect is very powerful.
So there's that Hugo that everyone seems to love.
Power cords make all the difference though.
They use Master Built cables in the Von Schweikert Room. The Ultra 11 are 300K. The room at most shows are 1.5M. 70K for cable doesn't seem that much with you know the rest of the details
yea stupid money in that room. It was fun to see though.
@@Audioholics They do have a wide price range for their speakers from $3700.00-$300,000.00
I believe that there are sales/marketing staff, that genuinely believe the snake oil around the products they are selling is legit. How they’ve been convinced of that, is questionable. So there are 2 camps. Those that promote the bullshit and they are usually in manufacturing or retail. Those that debunk the bullshit and they are of a scientific background and are logical thinkers and not driven by profit margins.
I believe that often costly solutions are fabricated to solve trivial or insignificant issues. I think you’ve just validated that!
Bill Low lives in a 5 million dollar condo in Newport Beach. In a shopping center. Big mark-up in cables.
This is a great post. But please use a better mic.
12:12 Roll credits!
I bought headphones at canjam London. They tried to sell me overpriced (600 gbp) silver cable. They said my new headphones will sound better if I use their cable. :-)
What about Monoprice new Monolith speaker cables. Claiming all these differences and a crazy looking design. More marketing nonsense? I just ran 12awg cable everywhere and viewing this makes me more confident I made the right choice.
Kimber is very good cable, based on real science. However, I don't think you are getting anything beyond 8tc, IMO. At that point you have adequate awg and the braiding does the same EMI/EMR/RF rejection and inductance reduction in a 250.00 cable as a 2000.00 cable, IMO. Once you get to a level of legitimate build quality and engineering, you've gone far enough. I own 4tc and Wasatch's entry level and both are excellent, I've not heard better. And both were relatively affordable and the price I paid was a fair upcharge for me not just buying bulk and building them myself.
The audio is terrible; perhaps you need better cables.
is this the same audioquest that makes the dragonfly USB DACs????
Oh, question answered
Could you make a list of good looking audio jevelry cables that has sensible price?
I know enough electricity and Human hearing that any good cable is enough. But I really like pretty items, but I don`t want to pay too much from them, because in reality it does not cost a lot to make them look nice!
You can make 8 pairs easily from Amazon supplies for $30/pr. Just search UA-cam for diy cables. It’s easy. And they look great
Vocals sound distorted.......
A cable talk... like moths to the flame all approach! =o)
voice breaking up a bit...otherwise, great talk about snake oil. You and Mark W. from www.realhd-audio.com/ really have a lot of useful info about cables.
I buy exotic cables because they look cool and are well made but I draw the line at the ridiculous high end. I limit the cost to less than 10% of the device it is connected too.
I agree with you about the Audioquest cables with the "dialectric bias system" and other BS on their megabuck cables, but I do use and like their entry level solid core interconnects that are around $40 for a 1 meter pair. The ones I have are their older ones called the Sidewinder, but the current ones are called Evergreen and cost $50 for a 1 meter pair at Crutchfield. They actually do sound better to me than cheaper Monster and other low priced cable I've used
Preach brother.
Love your show. Not the bubblesLove your show. Not to bust your balls, And of course I realise you already know this, But you said when electricity was invented. Actually it was discovered. Anyway, would like you to Produce a episode on The ridiculous claims of companies that Sell gold plated connectors and promote better conductivity. Knowing that the core material is going to be most likely copper and is basically electroplated with a micro thin coating of gold does not do anything to improve conductivity or signal transfer, Not to mention overall resistance.
I’ve got Audioquest HDMI cables throughout and they are easily the best I’ve come across - thin flexible great quality and awesome connections. If you need to go in and out of dry walls and round tight bends with a great looking, performing cable, you won’t go far wrong with Audioquest cables in my opinion.
Based on what white papers lol.
You can do the same with cheap cables too. The 25ft CL3 certified cable that I use for my projector cost me $7.50. It's carrying a digital signal, it either works or it doesn't. Don't waste your money on cables.
I am kind of sick and tired of people talking about choosing of speaker cables size based on an insertion loss calculation. By the time you loose even 0.1 dB in volume your amp's damping factor will be deep down in a gutter. We really have to compare resistance of those cables with the output impedances of the power amps. Let's say some amp has a damping factor of 400 @ 8 Ohm load. That converts into it's output impedance of 0.02 Ohm. Even if you use 12 AWG wires, 10 ft runs of such cables will give you at least 0.032 Oms of additional resistance. And that damping factor will drop 2.6 times to just 154 (@ speaker terminals). But the insertion loss in that case apparently would not exceed 0.06 dB, which is absolutely inaudible and irrelevant.
Here’s a video on a stock exchange in NYC that has 38 miles of coiled up fiber optic cable. Why? It’s to introduce 350 micro seconds into the system for companies to exchange stock.
UA-cam.com/watch?v=d8BcCLLX4N4&feature=share
So if your right channel has cable that is 20 feet long but your left is 5... you are not going to price that.
One thing that would massively help all your videos and streams is if you would get a better mic. I always hear tons of peaking and harshness. I think whatever webcam you're using must have a terrible mic.
It's NOT the mic. The damn software was clipping and I'm learning how to use it as it's not very intuitive. Not using the webcam mic, I had on a lapel as you can see by the fur ball on my chest.
great public message from someone who can claim expertise properly. But I think you're laboring to trying to give these hucksters "an out" when they don't deserve the benefit of such doubt. Their sham and con is utterly on purpose and with malevolent profiteering intent, and not at all due to "lack of information or expertise." These bullshitting scammers have taken backwards the entire field of audio hi fidelity to the dark ages and estranged all honest hobbyist listeners and music lovers.
I'm trying to find the silver lining :)
11:24 wait, what. There's an actual Wayne Kerr? It's not just an urban legend!!
I looked over some of the cable ads, and 99% are pure snake oil.
Buy pro band cables (not expensive and good quality) or customer oriented cables like Blue Jeans Cable which also have good design, build quality and are not expensive...
Do NOT buy cables from "exotic" consumer oriented cable brands for hundreds/thousands per cable...