Very fond of this old iron! Pretty stout and lots of Frankensteins out there to pull parts off. I got a second spindle and motor for this one so we should be good for a long while! 😂
I have 2 similar VMC's. My only fear on doing the retrofits is the tool changer integration. Very curious just how difficult it was for you to get the tool changer working?
It’s a long hard road even having done 2 of them I still had issues. Hardest is if your carousel is servo connected. Requires a custom PLC and a few other boards and tricks. If they are just an index of one pulse per pocket it’s a lot easier. If you have the time and resources a retrofit is an amazing way to go however, I couldn’t even come close to buying the value I have stuffed in my machines due to retrofitting.
I can't believe I stumbled on this video as I watched your other videos on your channel before! I'm installing a Centroid Oak on my Arrow 750 as we speak and looking for a VFD. I noticed you have the Delta C2000 and I was recommended that by Marty as well. Do you have a build thread on the Centroid forums? Also, would you be willing to share the macros for the tool changer? I'll be most likely running into the same issue as you since I have the same tool changer.
Kris, what’s up man! That’s awesome to hear, you’ll be happy with your retrofit when it’s up and running. I would also recommend the C2000 I’ve got 2 of them on both my mills and they have been an excellent VFD! Info you’ll need: 1- Buy your VFD 5 HP over your spindle motor. If you have the 10 hp 10K rpm goldline motor you’ll want the 15HP Delta inverter: product# VFD110C23A You’ll also need the orient card for the inverter: EMC-PG01L An amazing contact for the inverter straight from DELTA in China is: coco@tdk-automation.com she can get you the inverter and the card. Once you get your inverter refer to tech bulletin 316 on the centroid forums. It’s the most up to date. 2-Follow the schematic and wire up your inverter with all inputs and outputs correct. Pay special attention that the card and the inverter may sink or source depending on what schematic you are using so set the dip switches accordingly and be very thorough on labeling your wires. I used the existing braking resistor on top of the cabinet, use extreme caution as this circuit is probably one of the most dangerous in your install. Don’t ever work on your resistor with your mill powered on. Or either end of the wires open, they both need to be connected to the drive if it’s powered up. 3- You’ll also need to buy a spindle encoder from centroid and machine yourself a mating sleeve to the top of the spindle motor shaft. “I can email you the solid model” There’s a nice spot to mount if you take off the fan and the existing spindle encoder. The centroid encoder is 2000 counts and this matters when you go to set the inverter so just buy the centroid one with the pigtail lead. It’s money well spent. 4-When you set up your spindle inverter and motor you can leave the motor attached to the belt. Begin with the static and the rolling test after you set the motor parameters. If you don’t do this in exact order you’ll get overload errors while trying to run your spindle. I also completely disregard parameter 11-00 I’ve never had good luck with the tuning. It’s a lot man but hope this helps somewhat.
@Eric Schneiter Eric, wow, I'm blown away with your response! Thank you for taking the time to write up the reply!! I'll definitely check out your contact for the C2000, and I appreciate the advice for oversizing it I'll also check out the diagrams on the forums. I will most likely reuse the existing resistor as well, and thanks for the heads up on the dangers of it! I'll make sure yo get the encoder from Centroid as well. Thanks so much for all your help! This will greatly help with my retrofit!!
@@22lambo for sure man! Good luck. Feel free to hit me up if you get stuck along the way. Happy to throw you pointers. Do you have your axes moving yet? What drives and motors are you going with?
@Eric Schneiter I really appreciate that! I currently have the machine operational with the original Cincinnati/Kollmorgen drives. I wanted to use them but after lots of consideration, I decided that I should replace them out since any diagnostics with the drives are a nightmare since it's all early 90s technology. I was going to swap them out for some Chinese servos (I was looking at Tomatech servos and drives) but I came across a great deal for a decommissioned Centroid retrofit that comes with used Yaskawa servos and drives, perfectly matched for my machine. I'll be getting those this weekend so soon I'll start taking apart the Arrow and installing the Oak and motors. I might use a generic VFD and manually chance the tools in the meantime, since I'll have to wait cod the Delta C2000 to come in.
@@22lambo awesome dude YASKAWA will be a super good option for you. It’s super slick with the probe when you get to that point. I love my arrow, it just cuts all day now and never has issues.
I’m building an 1990 Bridgeport Interact 412. How did you get orientation to work? Does your VFD have an orient option? What VFD are you running. Any suggestions would be helpful.
John Burbey, what control are you going to use? Centroid. Mach, Liniux? I use delta VFD’s and I like them. It’s a single input and orientation is built into the inverter with a XYZ encoder.
I am using centroid acorn. What is the model number of your VFD.? What type of spindle is on your machine? How does that VFD handle speed control? Is that spindle a Yaskawa or Fanuc ? Was the Spindle encoder built in the Spindle Motor? Is the encoder just a magnetic type? Yes your help is appreciated.
@@johnburbey5153 I don’t know if acorn has enough hardware to run a spindle orientation. You may need an Oak board. But I used a centroid encoder and found a way to mount it to my spindle motor. My spindle motor is a Vickers but if you can pull the cover off and find the motor shaft then you can figure out a way to mount it. I had to machine myself an adapter. You may have an existing encoder that would work but I ditched my factory one and just went new on both retrofits I’ve done. The encoder hooks to the Delta C2000. Highly recommend delta C2000 I’ve used it for both my retrofits. Buy it 10 HP over your spindle rating is my recommendation. Ex if you have a 10 HP motor buy a 20 HP inverter. They claim more than they can run. Tech Bulletin 316 has all the steps to set up the drive and tune it correctly. Again I believe you’ll need an oak or a board that can handle encoder input and the orient command m19.
I can use acorn you just add a ether 1616 expansion board and that gives you 16 more inputs and outputs. Yes there is a encoder in the motor but it is just a magnetic one. I planned on adding a new encoder. I had to put one on My lathe. My biggest problem was the orientation. I bought a 20 hp Fuji which is a very nice drive but it turned out to have no orient option. At this time it’s difficult to get the drives after Covid. I will check this morning and hopefully they have a Delta. Thanks John
Ive retrod Cincinnati arrow as well, great to see another machine in use
Very fond of this old iron! Pretty stout and lots of Frankensteins out there to pull parts off. I got a second spindle and motor for this one so we should be good for a long while! 😂
My apologies for the 2 minutes of dark screen at the end. Not sure what happened there LOL.
it is ok :)
Never judge a man by the color of his coolant.
Haha! Ive got a gnarly coolant video coming, you'll pass judgement.😂
ok that is so COOL because you to not have to change it manually
Going to be SOOO NICE man I’m so stoked!
I have 2 similar VMC's. My only fear on doing the retrofits is the tool changer integration. Very curious just how difficult it was for you to get the tool changer working?
It’s a long hard road even having done 2 of them I still had issues. Hardest is if your carousel is servo connected. Requires a custom PLC and a few other boards and tricks. If they are just an index of one pulse per pocket it’s a lot easier. If you have the time and resources a retrofit is an amazing way to go however, I couldn’t even come close to buying the value I have stuffed in my machines due to retrofitting.
@@ericschneiter Yes, the carousel is spun via a small Fanuc red cap servo. Who did your PLC work?
I can't believe I stumbled on this video as I watched your other videos on your channel before!
I'm installing a Centroid Oak on my Arrow 750 as we speak and looking for a VFD. I noticed you have the Delta C2000 and I was recommended that by Marty as well. Do you have a build thread on the Centroid forums? Also, would you be willing to share the macros for the tool changer? I'll be most likely running into the same issue as you since I have the same tool changer.
Kris, what’s up man! That’s awesome to hear, you’ll be happy with your retrofit when it’s up and running.
I would also recommend the C2000 I’ve got 2 of them on both my mills and they have been an excellent VFD!
Info you’ll need:
1- Buy your VFD 5 HP over your spindle motor. If you have the 10 hp 10K rpm goldline motor you’ll want the 15HP Delta inverter: product# VFD110C23A
You’ll also need the orient card for the inverter: EMC-PG01L
An amazing contact for the inverter straight from DELTA in China is:
coco@tdk-automation.com she can get you the inverter and the card.
Once you get your inverter refer to tech bulletin 316 on the centroid forums. It’s the most up to date.
2-Follow the schematic and wire up your inverter with all inputs and outputs correct. Pay special attention that the card and the inverter may sink or source depending on what schematic you are using so set the dip switches accordingly and be very thorough on labeling your wires.
I used the existing braking resistor on top of the cabinet, use extreme caution as this circuit is probably one of the most dangerous in your install. Don’t ever work on your resistor with your mill powered on. Or either end of the wires open, they both need to be connected to the drive if it’s powered up.
3- You’ll also need to buy a spindle encoder from centroid and machine yourself a mating sleeve to the top of the spindle motor shaft. “I can email you the solid model” There’s a nice spot to mount if you take off the fan and the existing spindle encoder. The centroid encoder is 2000 counts and this matters when you go to set the inverter so just buy the centroid one with the pigtail lead. It’s money well spent.
4-When you set up your spindle inverter and motor you can leave the motor attached to the belt. Begin with the static and the rolling test after you set the motor parameters. If you don’t do this in exact order you’ll get overload errors while trying to run your spindle. I also completely disregard parameter 11-00 I’ve never had good luck with the tuning. It’s a lot man but hope this helps somewhat.
@Eric Schneiter Eric, wow, I'm blown away with your response! Thank you for taking the time to write up the reply!!
I'll definitely check out your contact for the C2000, and I appreciate the advice for oversizing it
I'll also check out the diagrams on the forums.
I will most likely reuse the existing resistor as well, and thanks for the heads up on the dangers of it!
I'll make sure yo get the encoder from Centroid as well.
Thanks so much for all your help! This will greatly help with my retrofit!!
@@22lambo for sure man! Good luck. Feel free to hit me up if you get stuck along the way. Happy to throw you pointers. Do you have your axes moving yet? What drives and motors are you going with?
@Eric Schneiter I really appreciate that! I currently have the machine operational with the original Cincinnati/Kollmorgen drives. I wanted to use them but after lots of consideration, I decided that I should replace them out since any diagnostics with the drives are a nightmare since it's all early 90s technology. I was going to swap them out for some Chinese servos (I was looking at Tomatech servos and drives) but I came across a great deal for a decommissioned Centroid retrofit that comes with used Yaskawa servos and drives, perfectly matched for my machine. I'll be getting those this weekend so soon I'll start taking apart the Arrow and installing the Oak and motors. I might use a generic VFD and manually chance the tools in the meantime, since I'll have to wait cod the Delta C2000 to come in.
@@22lambo awesome dude YASKAWA will be a super good option for you. It’s super slick with the probe when you get to that point. I love my arrow, it just cuts all day now and never has issues.
How do you use the rotary encoder to set the correct position for the spindle orient with the vfd?
What VFD are you using? On the C2000 there is a parameter and you need the centroid orient card but has to be wired correctly.
Are you using Acorn?
No, this is an Oak system. But both run cnc12.
I’m building an 1990 Bridgeport Interact 412. How did you get orientation to work? Does your VFD have an orient option? What VFD are you running. Any suggestions would be helpful.
John Burbey, what control are you going to use? Centroid. Mach, Liniux? I use delta VFD’s and I like them. It’s a single input and orientation is built into the inverter with a XYZ encoder.
I am using centroid acorn. What is the model number of your VFD.? What type of spindle is on your machine? How does that VFD handle speed control? Is that spindle a Yaskawa or Fanuc ? Was the Spindle encoder built in the Spindle Motor? Is the encoder just a magnetic type? Yes your help is appreciated.
@@johnburbey5153 I don’t know if acorn has enough hardware to run a spindle orientation. You may need an Oak board. But I used a centroid encoder and found a way to mount it to my spindle motor. My spindle motor is a Vickers but if you can pull the cover off and find the motor shaft then you can figure out a way to mount it. I had to machine myself an adapter. You may have an existing encoder that would work but I ditched my factory one and just went new on both retrofits I’ve done. The encoder hooks to the Delta C2000. Highly recommend delta C2000 I’ve used it for both my retrofits. Buy it 10 HP over your spindle rating is my recommendation. Ex if you have a 10 HP motor buy a 20 HP inverter. They claim more than they can run.
Tech Bulletin 316 has all the steps to set up the drive and tune it correctly. Again I believe you’ll need an oak or a board that can handle encoder input and the orient command m19.
I can use acorn you just add a ether 1616 expansion board and that gives you 16 more inputs and outputs. Yes there is a encoder in the motor but it is just a magnetic one. I planned on adding a new encoder. I had to put one on My lathe. My biggest problem was the orientation. I bought a 20 hp Fuji which is a very nice drive but it turned out to have no orient option. At this time it’s difficult to get the drives after Covid. I will check this morning and hopefully they have a Delta. Thanks John
Looks like the C2000 is discontinued they do have a replacement the number is 110C23A-21 I hope they didn’t change anything and they have stock.