This book is something else and there's no words enough to express my feelings! It is so wonderful to me -having been given the chance to show my love for Westeros to the world, through some pages. George R.R. Martin, Elio and Linda; endless thanks and gratitudes for giving me the honor to be included in The Rise Of The Dragon!
We briefly saw outside Westeros when we had Pentos in episode 6. Also more loosely the Stepstones, which are just rocks, but fighting the Triarchy, who are from Essos.
Wow this is amazing to listen to! This kind of incredibly interesting and carefully detailed analysis of GRRM's work is such a treat. I feel like I am hearing real ASOIAF scholars take the new TV series seriously, so thank you!
I realise you guys have been cautious previously about expressing your views and 'reviewing' per se given your close ties with world building and GRRM personally which is understandable. However for many asoif fans you both represent a shinning beacon of hope which sustains us through the dark and long wait for Winds. Your insight and willingness to openly express yourselfs allows us to delve a little bit deeper, and is extremely valuable and relied upon by many! Keep up the amazing work!
Linda's sighs encapsulate perfectly my feelings and thoughts. And I'm totally buying The Rise of the Dragons. I love the artwork and it will be a great addition to the collection.
Didn't know Elios family was from Cuba, I'm also cuban, a massive asoiaf fan (got my rise of the dragon copy today and I'm so exited to read it! ) and living near Sweden (Germany). We're so much alike you and I 😂.
Love you guys! So much info, it's so nice to see 2 people as passionate about the universe as yall are you guys dedicate so much time and effort into it and we appreciate it. I wish you guys and @prestonjacobs would do a podcast discussion video, he is similarily passionate for the last decade but as a theory guy. You 3 had criticisms of the rhaenys scene in episode 9... It feels like season 8 writing sometimes, still love the season the show and everything around it, just want to see the best happen with the story. You all have very similar criticisms, so it'd be interesting to see where the discussion goes. Im watching the rest of this meaty video and will comment back with other stuff :)
I liked the review so much. I also wished if they gave rhaenyra and Alicent more agency, it doesn't make them evil humans, if Alicent wants her son to be a king or she has ambition and desire for power that doesn't make her evil or rhaenyra wants the iron throne because it's her birthright and her not accepting giving it to her younger brother because he's a man also doesn't make her evil, it's the actions and the decisions these characters make to achieve that power, that what determines whether they're good or evil or grey . My problem with aemond killing Luce by mistake is that it's a very important moment in the story that takes the conflict between the greens and the blacks to a non turning back point, and to me it looked a bit equivalent to joffrey beheading Ned stark and I can't imagine joffrey behead Ned by mistake not only for how the characters are but also for how much of a weight have that event on the story to be done by accident. Anyway I am waiting for your review on the whole season, I am satisfied with it so far, wish that they gave more dialogue and scenes to characters like daemon, rhaenys and daemon's daughters. My question is how do you think they'll handle viserys (daemon and rhaenyra son) storyline in season 2, will they just say he disappeared and never mention him again unless in the end of the whole show or they may give him a story arc like Arya in bravoos, like we see him survive and go to lyse and we follow his journey till he comes back at the end of the show to his brother ( I would like that ) what do you think ??
Great question. I liked season one a lot but it seemed there were so little storylines and many characters were just ... there. So I'd like to follow little Viserys. But I won't be disappointed if him returning is a surprise if we see a lot from Baela, Rhaena, Alyn, Addam, Mysaria and so on
Excellent video and great analysis! I will push back/ question on 1 detail about the dragon disobedience thing. The Alyassane & Silverwing incident, if that is true and Silverwing could not fly pass the wall because of the " barrier magic" that exist that prevents "magical creatures" from passing it, then what about Storm's End? That castle was supposedly created with the same magic but dragons can still land there /in the castles yard it doesn't repel them. Because according to the record in F&B its does sounds like Silverwing disobeys and won't fly north despite Alyassane's order because of some instinct of fear or some danger that lurks beyond the Wall. (And if its a creature of fire why fear creatures of ice? Thats another bit I've always wondered about🤔)
I think with Rhaenyra they will make her darker and certainly I hope they will in season 2. However, I think they'll never go as dark with her as some of us (myself included) would like. And I think the reason for that is something I've seen mentioned a few times. There are a few times already this season that I saw some people complaining about not having anyone to root for. That's something I personally don't care about cuz that's not how I watch shows anyway, but I know some people do. And I suspect that the writers fear the audience having nobody to root for and will try to make Rhaenyra and her children the main characters the audience can root for which they might feel requires them to make Rhaenyra more clearly sympathetic and kind of sand off the edges a bit. Hopefully not too much.
Yeah I think that too, I remember seeing a post on Reddit that said the audience might mistake the blacks for being the starks of this show because the childrens storylines are a bit similar to the stark children like some might say that Jace storyline is a bit like rob stark despite the different characters that young prince/lord who fights for his family and inspire many houses to his mother cause and they keep their alliance with his family after he dies a horrible death . Or viserys storyline who is a bit similar to Arya storyline, that little child who is being separated from his family and they all think he's dead while he's in essos and comes back so many years later . Also we have aegon who is after rhaenyra's death ends up a traumatized child in the hands of aegon II who made him watch his mother's death like Sansa . So yeah I can see them making rhaenyra and her children the heroes of the show especially if it ends with one of the blacks on the iron throne.
Yeah I think it was better to have the war be about their own ambitions and that's how it's been in history. I am not really into the narrative of wars being accidents. I will get The Rise of The Dragon, it's added to my list now and I enjoyed The World of Ice & Fire.
21:45 - I think we'll still get those lines but in season 2. Probably in the same episode or the episode right before Blood and Cheese. That would be my guess, anyway.
I think the writers added the prophecy to give some characters more of a motivation for the throne. I can understand because two sides fighting for power both motivated by their perceived birthright and ambition for power could be more difficult to write or less interesting to write. I'm just trying to think from a writers perspective here.
I love every single thing about the show !! The casting is perfect !! George was involved so to me it's alt universe Canon . Mushroom was missed but not needed . The prophecy answers the Egg and Rhaegar questions . We got to see a Valyrian wedding and an actual dragon taming !! I think we should all be happy , grateful and wishful that HBO keeps em coming !!
It's a microphone issue! The distraction of the puppy going crazy led to a lot of stops and starts which led to occasions where the wireless mic unsynced and resynced, and I was too distracted to actually go and double-check the audio each time we restarted. The wireless mics are great for us because it makes it a lot easier to record... but the downside is I have to monitor them more, and am still not used to the work flow. The two previous videos were with the wireless mics as well and came out much better.
37:42 - Do we know for certainty that silverwing 'could not' cross the wall? I remember it being unclear, and Alysanne interpreting it that Silverwing was refusing. Its merely an implication that she was repelled by some force.
The dragon baby remains vague. It would be too magical if they embellished more abomination features. This way, the ambiguity gives it a nice balance. FWIW, I lean more towards hints of dragon baby, at least that is the vibe I caught. Flashes of her dragon during her pain furthered that hint.
It might be an interesting (and semi-acceptable) retcon, if we change it from the prophecy being Aegon the Conqueror's to actually being given by Daenys the Dreamer. And it was merely re interpreted or seconded by Aegon.
This show was far more faithful to the source than the last five seaons of the other show was. BUt then the book was written that way this time, not knowing which accounts are true or not. So George learned from the last time, write them vague so the shows work better?
I think a quick clarification on the "Rings of Power" (RoP) is in order. Amazon payed $250 million for the rights to use "The Hobbit," "The Lord of the Rings" (LoTR), and the appendices to LoTR in their series. Anything they wanted to use outside of those three works had to be specifically approved by the Tolkien Estate, as, more generally, had everything which was intended for the episodes themselves. The appendices consist of 6 sections comprising a total of ~100 content-rich pages in small font, single-spaced. Whatever the opinions are for the final product (i.e., the episodes for season 1), it is clear that the development of this series included absolutely meticulous reading and analysis of these works and that what was put into the episodes had some basis in them, whether it be explicitly stated in the works, or, for example, suggested in a dialogue in the text, poem, song, linguistic analysis [of Tolkien's languages], etc. More particularly, while there has been criticism of the particular choices that they made, my impression is that the developers of this series were exceedingly conscious of the fullness of the source of material and that their decisions were very deliberate ones. I would also say that the developers of the series also wanted to convey far more than just a particular unfolding of events. My impression is that they wanted share a fuller imaginative experience of Tolkien's world in the second age, many millennia before the events in the LoTR. In all of this, they certainly had to provide that which was not included in the approved works. How we designate this is crucial. I think that instead of saying "they have to make up so much," it would be more accurate to say that the show's developers had to engage in a kind of mythopoetic imagining deeply informed by the three works they were legally allowed to use, a similar process of imagining (forward) that Tolkien himself seems to have undergone as he continued to imagine his legendarium forward as we see, in part, from this Letters and the multi-volume "History of Middle-earth."
That's a good way to look at it, but for me no two creators can create alike. There's no chance that off of a handful of texts they are going to be able to actually develop something that would be the same, or even close to the same, as what Tolkien would develop. For me, the deciding factor was that Christopher Tolkien was clearly disinterested in this all and uninvolved. To me, he was the closest thing there was to a substitute for JRRT. I can't imagine you or anyone else supposes RoP is very much like something JRRT would have produced.
I certainly do not mean that even an informed mythopoetic imagining forward would be consistent with J. R. R. Tolkien's views. Based on the 12 volumes of histories, Tolkien's letters, previously unpublished material in the relatively new book "The Nature of Middle-earth," etc., we have immediate hard evidence that there are numerous divergences. Furthermore, even with the existing 3 texts Amazon can pull from reveal numerous divergences. This was not the point. My point was that there is a fundamental difference between making things up and the deliberative process I would argue was followed by the show's creators of imagining forward, an imagining grounded on a detailed analysis of all materials they had legal permission to use.
Sure! I understand the distinction you're making. I will say that their answers to queries in interviews have not convinced me that they have gone into as much mythopoeic depth as you imagine, but then again, they are merely the head of a vast apparatus of other creators -- artists, craftsmen, designers, etc. -- whom they oversee, and perhaps they have become greater than the sum of their parts. I quite enjoyed THE NATURE OF MIDDLE-EARTH. Still working my way through Cilli's TOLKIEN'S LIBRARY.
I have a feeling that they didn’t include the deformed dragon-baby deaths of Leana and then Rhaenyra because they don’t want the casual viewer to think that there is something wrong with Daemon and by extension Rhaenyra. I think they want these characters to be the ultimate heros and ‘abominations’ don’t really fit with this narrative?
I was very concerned that this patriarchy theme would make it too easy to make the women victims. And until the end of Episode 8, the writing was so good and it was working. But then the misunderstanding with Alicent and all the changes to the Black Council. I share your concerns and hopes this will work out
I think what the Twitter is getting at is that you are morally justified to act in the same way as your opponent. The behaviour of others do matter since you are all part of a socity with certain moral rules in place and if one part breaks a rule without getting punished, others should always be allowed to act the same way. Either the rules apply to all equally or they do not exist for anyone. Nor do it matter if a certain individual is innocent or if an act is escpecially vile, what matter is what the other side has done. Example: Because of Lucerys death, the Blood and cheese incident is completely justified. It do not matter that the executed kid is completely innocent. Example 2: Dany was justified when she crucified 163 masters, due to their own crucifixion of children. It is not relevant nor necessary to determine individual guilt. Example 3: It is not a problem that german women was raped by the red army in 44-45. Those rapes were morally justified due to the deaths and genocide under Barbarossa. Some might feel this reasoning is vile - sure, but it is certainly fair. Personally I think the people arguing that such a logic is vile should make a better job making sure that the rules aren´t broken in the first place and punish the first offender hard so that a counter-reaction isn´t necessary. So, therefore it is going to be hard to be critical towards what Rhaenyra does in future seasons. She will STILL be a good person despite performing acts like murder, because of the casus belli she has been given by her son's death.
@@WesterosTV ...what if Alys Rivers...seems to be aware of it? Not letting it drive Rhaenyra as much directly anymore, but that in later seasons Alys Rivers is convinced she carries the prince that was promised?
They used ASOIAF prophecy thing to whitewash Alicent & Rhaenyra and made Men Warmongers. It knida made sense in case of Rhaenyra but it didn't work at all with Alicent. We were robbed off great dialogue in the Green Council because of that. Viserys was huge Improvement but they butchered Criston Cole. He was suppose to break bones and make kings 👑 He is basically King Crowner in the show. Nevertheless expectations were low but overall good season 7/10.
I think part of the softness of the characters is because in the books they are all terrible.. I think with Dameon choking Rheana they try to make him the bad guy. Dameon is unpredictable however he is fierce and loyal to those he loves see episode 9.Personally Ameon is a physco path he lost an eye and gallantly said he gained a dragon but still had a grudge..
I dont get angry or worked up over lore changes in either Hot D or Rings of Power because as Elio says I take these tellings as alternate histories, or rather alternate realities. Comic fan, can easily take it as different universe same basic people. Hollywoodization is a real thing, and its gross. These stories are damaged by that before any lore changes are even done. I also dont expect great stuff from big blockbuster studios and productions, its made for the mass public and by that metric cannot be of the best quality. It is what it is. Both shows are quite average, good, but nothing more. 6/10 on both, good enough to watch, but not rewatch.
This book is something else and there's no words enough to express my feelings! It is so wonderful to me -having been given the chance to show my love for Westeros to the world, through some pages.
George R.R. Martin, Elio and Linda; endless thanks and gratitudes for giving me the honor to be included in The Rise Of The Dragon!
Congrats on the book! Great seeing you back on YT! Hope you guys can do more videos on ASOIAF talking about theories and such!
We are thinking of it!
We briefly saw outside Westeros when we had Pentos in episode 6. Also more loosely the Stepstones, which are just rocks, but fighting the Triarchy, who are from Essos.
Wow this is amazing to listen to! This kind of incredibly interesting and carefully detailed analysis of GRRM's work is such a treat. I feel like I am hearing real ASOIAF scholars take the new TV series seriously, so thank you!
I realise you guys have been cautious previously about expressing your views and 'reviewing' per se given your close ties with world building and GRRM personally which is understandable. However for many asoif fans you both represent a shinning beacon of hope which sustains us through the dark and long wait for Winds. Your insight and willingness to openly express yourselfs allows us to delve a little bit deeper, and is extremely valuable and relied upon by many! Keep up the amazing work!
I love these longer discussion videos from you both!
Linda's sighs encapsulate perfectly my feelings and thoughts. And I'm totally buying The Rise of the Dragons. I love the artwork and it will be a great addition to the collection.
It is so wonderful to have you both back and doing videos! The book is gorgeous, the pictures/illustrations are insanely beautiful! 😍😍😍
Didn't know Elios family was from Cuba, I'm also cuban, a massive asoiaf fan (got my rise of the dragon copy today and I'm so exited to read it! ) and living near Sweden (Germany). We're so much alike you and I 😂.
Perhaps we'll have the chance to meet some day at some convention or event in Europe!
@@WesterosTV I sure hope so!
Love you guys! So much info, it's so nice to see 2 people as passionate about the universe as yall are you guys dedicate so much time and effort into it and we appreciate it. I wish you guys and @prestonjacobs would do a podcast discussion video, he is similarily passionate for the last decade but as a theory guy. You 3 had criticisms of the rhaenys scene in episode 9... It feels like season 8 writing sometimes, still love the season the show and everything around it, just want to see the best happen with the story. You all have very similar criticisms, so it'd be interesting to see where the discussion goes. Im watching the rest of this meaty video and will comment back with other stuff :)
I liked the review so much. I also wished if they gave rhaenyra and Alicent more agency, it doesn't make them evil humans, if Alicent wants her son to be a king or she has ambition and desire for power that doesn't make her evil or rhaenyra wants the iron throne because it's her birthright and her not accepting giving it to her younger brother because he's a man also doesn't make her evil, it's the actions and the decisions these characters make to achieve that power, that what determines whether they're good or evil or grey .
My problem with aemond killing Luce by mistake is that it's a very important moment in the story that takes the conflict between the greens and the blacks to a non turning back point, and to me it looked a bit equivalent to joffrey beheading Ned stark and I can't imagine joffrey behead Ned by mistake not only for how the characters are but also for how much of a weight have that event on the story to be done by accident.
Anyway I am waiting for your review on the whole season, I am satisfied with it so far, wish that they gave more dialogue and scenes to characters like daemon, rhaenys and daemon's daughters.
My question is how do you think they'll handle viserys (daemon and rhaenyra son) storyline in season 2, will they just say he disappeared and never mention him again unless in the end of the whole show or they may give him a story arc like Arya in bravoos, like we see him survive and go to lyse and we follow his journey till he comes back at the end of the show to his brother ( I would like that ) what do you think ??
Great question. I liked season one a lot but it seemed there were so little storylines and many characters were just ... there. So I'd like to follow little Viserys. But I won't be disappointed if him returning is a surprise if we see a lot from Baela, Rhaena, Alyn, Addam, Mysaria and so on
Love your vids.
Thanks!
Excellent video and great analysis!
I will push back/ question on 1 detail about the dragon disobedience thing. The Alyassane & Silverwing incident, if that is true and Silverwing could not fly pass the wall because of the " barrier magic" that exist that prevents "magical creatures" from passing it, then what about Storm's End? That castle was supposedly created with the same magic but dragons can still land there /in the castles yard it doesn't repel them. Because according to the record in F&B its does sounds like Silverwing disobeys and won't fly north despite Alyassane's order because of some instinct of fear or some danger that lurks beyond the Wall. (And if its a creature of fire why fear creatures of ice? Thats another bit I've always wondered about🤔)
I think with Rhaenyra they will make her darker and certainly I hope they will in season 2. However, I think they'll never go as dark with her as some of us (myself included) would like. And I think the reason for that is something I've seen mentioned a few times. There are a few times already this season that I saw some people complaining about not having anyone to root for. That's something I personally don't care about cuz that's not how I watch shows anyway, but I know some people do. And I suspect that the writers fear the audience having nobody to root for and will try to make Rhaenyra and her children the main characters the audience can root for which they might feel requires them to make Rhaenyra more clearly sympathetic and kind of sand off the edges a bit. Hopefully not too much.
Yeah I think that too, I remember seeing a post on Reddit that said the audience might mistake the blacks for being the starks of this show because the childrens storylines are a bit similar to the stark children like some might say that Jace storyline is a bit like rob stark despite the different characters that young prince/lord who fights for his family and inspire many houses to his mother cause and they keep their alliance with his family after he dies a horrible death . Or viserys storyline who is a bit similar to Arya storyline, that little child who is being separated from his family and they all think he's dead while he's in essos and comes back so many years later . Also we have aegon who is after rhaenyra's death ends up a traumatized child in the hands of aegon II who made him watch his mother's death like Sansa . So yeah I can see them making rhaenyra and her children the heroes of the show especially if it ends with one of the blacks on the iron throne.
Yeah I think it was better to have the war be about their own ambitions and that's how it's been in history. I am not really into the narrative of wars being accidents.
I will get The Rise of The Dragon, it's added to my list now and I enjoyed The World of Ice & Fire.
Thanks!
21:45 - I think we'll still get those lines but in season 2. Probably in the same episode or the episode right before Blood and Cheese. That would be my guess, anyway.
I think the writers added the prophecy to give some characters more of a motivation for the throne. I can understand because two sides fighting for power both motivated by their perceived birthright and ambition for power could be more difficult to write or less interesting to write. I'm just trying to think from a writers perspective here.
I love every single thing about the show !! The casting is perfect !! George was involved so to me it's alt universe Canon . Mushroom was missed but not needed . The prophecy answers the Egg and Rhaegar questions . We got to see a Valyrian wedding and an actual dragon taming !! I think we should all be happy , grateful and wishful that HBO keeps em coming !!
I agree about loving seeing show canon play out!
Lovely surprise
I see you've upgraded Elio's CPU but the speakers seem to be going out.
It's a microphone issue! The distraction of the puppy going crazy led to a lot of stops and starts which led to occasions where the wireless mic unsynced and resynced, and I was too distracted to actually go and double-check the audio each time we restarted. The wireless mics are great for us because it makes it a lot easier to record... but the downside is I have to monitor them more, and am still not used to the work flow.
The two previous videos were with the wireless mics as well and came out much better.
37:42 - Do we know for certainty that silverwing 'could not' cross the wall? I remember it being unclear, and Alysanne interpreting it that Silverwing was refusing. Its merely an implication that she was repelled by some force.
The dragon baby remains vague. It would be too magical if they embellished more abomination features. This way, the ambiguity gives it a nice balance. FWIW, I lean more towards hints of dragon baby, at least that is the vibe I caught. Flashes of her dragon during her pain furthered that hint.
I’m Cuban and going to Spain for my honeymoon. Excited to go to my ancestral homeland as well.
¡Que lo disfrutes!
It might be an interesting (and semi-acceptable) retcon, if we change it from the prophecy being Aegon the Conqueror's to actually being given by Daenys the Dreamer. And it was merely re interpreted or seconded by Aegon.
Rise of the Dragon is beautiful 🤩
I would like to apply for the Boxer keeper Job many years of experience LMAO
This show was far more faithful to the source than the last five seaons of the other show was. BUt then the book was written that way this time, not knowing which accounts are true or not. So George learned from the last time, write them vague so the shows work better?
Spoiler question……
You mentioned that you think the histories are wrong. What do you think happened differently with blood and cheese?
I think a quick clarification on the "Rings of Power" (RoP) is in order. Amazon payed $250 million for the rights to use "The Hobbit," "The Lord of the Rings" (LoTR), and the appendices to LoTR in their series. Anything they wanted to use outside of those three works had to be specifically approved by the Tolkien Estate, as, more generally, had everything which was intended for the episodes themselves. The appendices consist of 6 sections comprising a total of ~100 content-rich pages in small font, single-spaced. Whatever the opinions are for the final product (i.e., the episodes for season 1), it is clear that the development of this series included absolutely meticulous reading and analysis of these works and that what was put into the episodes had some basis in them, whether it be explicitly stated in the works, or, for example, suggested in a dialogue in the text, poem, song, linguistic analysis [of Tolkien's languages], etc. More particularly, while there has been criticism of the particular choices that they made, my impression is that the developers of this series were exceedingly conscious of the fullness of the source of material and that their decisions were very deliberate ones. I would also say that the developers of the series also wanted to convey far more than just a particular unfolding of events. My impression is that they wanted share a fuller imaginative experience of Tolkien's world in the second age, many millennia before the events in the LoTR. In all of this, they certainly had to provide that which was not included in the approved works. How we designate this is crucial. I think that instead of saying "they have to make up so much," it would be more accurate to say that the show's developers had to engage in a kind of mythopoetic imagining deeply informed by the three works they were legally allowed to use, a similar process of imagining (forward) that Tolkien himself seems to have undergone as he continued to imagine his legendarium forward as we see, in part, from this Letters and the multi-volume "History of Middle-earth."
That's a good way to look at it, but for me no two creators can create alike. There's no chance that off of a handful of texts they are going to be able to actually develop something that would be the same, or even close to the same, as what Tolkien would develop. For me, the deciding factor was that Christopher Tolkien was clearly disinterested in this all and uninvolved. To me, he was the closest thing there was to a substitute for JRRT. I can't imagine you or anyone else supposes RoP is very much like something JRRT would have produced.
I certainly do not mean that even an informed mythopoetic imagining forward would be consistent with J. R. R. Tolkien's views. Based on the 12 volumes of histories, Tolkien's letters, previously unpublished material in the relatively new book "The Nature of Middle-earth," etc., we have immediate hard evidence that there are numerous divergences. Furthermore, even with the existing 3 texts Amazon can pull from reveal numerous divergences. This was not the point. My point was that there is a fundamental difference between making things up and the deliberative process I would argue was followed by the show's creators of imagining forward, an imagining grounded on a detailed analysis of all materials they had legal permission to use.
Sure! I understand the distinction you're making. I will say that their answers to queries in interviews have not convinced me that they have gone into as much mythopoeic depth as you imagine, but then again, they are merely the head of a vast apparatus of other creators -- artists, craftsmen, designers, etc. -- whom they oversee, and perhaps they have become greater than the sum of their parts.
I quite enjoyed THE NATURE OF MIDDLE-EARTH. Still working my way through Cilli's TOLKIEN'S LIBRARY.
I have a feeling that they didn’t include the deformed dragon-baby deaths of Leana and then Rhaenyra because they don’t want the casual viewer to think that there is something wrong with Daemon and by extension Rhaenyra. I think they want these characters to be the ultimate heros and ‘abominations’ don’t really fit with this narrative?
I was very concerned that this patriarchy theme would make it too easy to make the women victims. And until the end of Episode 8, the writing was so good and it was working. But then the misunderstanding with Alicent and all the changes to the Black Council. I share your concerns and hopes this will work out
I think what the Twitter is getting at is that you are morally justified to act in the same way as your opponent. The behaviour of others do matter since you are all part of a socity with certain moral rules in place and if one part breaks a rule without getting punished, others should always be allowed to act the same way. Either the rules apply to all equally or they do not exist for anyone. Nor do it matter if a certain individual is innocent or if an act is escpecially vile, what matter is what the other side has done.
Example: Because of Lucerys death, the Blood and cheese incident is completely justified. It do not matter that the executed kid is completely innocent.
Example 2: Dany was justified when she crucified 163 masters, due to their own crucifixion of children. It is not relevant nor necessary to determine individual guilt.
Example 3: It is not a problem that german women was raped by the red army in 44-45. Those rapes were morally justified due to the deaths and genocide under Barbarossa.
Some might feel this reasoning is vile - sure, but it is certainly fair. Personally I think the people arguing that such a logic is vile should make a better job making sure that the rules aren´t broken in the first place and punish the first offender hard so that a counter-reaction isn´t necessary.
So, therefore it is going to be hard to be critical towards what Rhaenyra does in future seasons. She will STILL be a good person despite performing acts like murder, because of the casus belli she has been given by her son's death.
The prophecy to me is the worst part of the show
I do hope they pull back on references to it for the next season.
@@WesterosTV same here
@@WesterosTV ...what if Alys Rivers...seems to be aware of it? Not letting it drive Rhaenyra as much directly anymore, but that in later seasons Alys Rivers is convinced she carries the prince that was promised?
They used ASOIAF prophecy thing to whitewash Alicent & Rhaenyra and made Men Warmongers. It knida made sense in case of Rhaenyra but it didn't work at all with Alicent. We were robbed off great dialogue in the Green Council because of that. Viserys was huge Improvement but they butchered Criston Cole. He was suppose to break bones and make kings 👑 He is basically King Crowner in the show. Nevertheless expectations were low but overall good season 7/10.
I think part of the softness of the characters is because in the books they are all terrible.. I think with Dameon choking Rheana they try to make him the bad guy. Dameon is unpredictable however he is fierce and loyal to those he loves see episode 9.Personally Ameon is a physco path he lost an eye and gallantly said he gained a dragon but still had a grudge..
I dont get angry or worked up over lore changes in either Hot D or Rings of Power because as Elio says I take these tellings as alternate histories, or rather alternate realities. Comic fan, can easily take it as different universe same basic people. Hollywoodization is a real thing, and its gross. These stories are damaged by that before any lore changes are even done. I also dont expect great stuff from big blockbuster studios and productions, its made for the mass public and by that metric cannot be of the best quality. It is what it is. Both shows are quite average, good, but nothing more. 6/10 on both, good enough to watch, but not rewatch.
Aegon is the rightfully king
Booooo!