Is Fajin real or fake - Tai Chi Chuan

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  • Опубліковано 26 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 100

  • @DiscoverTaiji
    @DiscoverTaiji 2 роки тому +23

    Fajin is an entry level skill. Exactly! Especially at a still or feeding target.

  • @Jenjak
    @Jenjak 2 роки тому +8

    The clearest and most honnest explaination of Fa Jin I've ever seen.
    I think you can have this hinsight because you actaully sparred an fought... unlike 99.99% of taiji people regardless of their internal skills.

  • @trinidadraj152
    @trinidadraj152 2 роки тому +15

    Well said! Wouldn't say I really do Tai Chi Ch'uan, but my focus is on the internal and the fascial system. A student (who is much heavier than me because I am a small man) was playful and wanted to "wrestle me," but was surprised that he couldn't move me at all, I just seemed relaxed, suddenly he was on the floor and pinned, not knowing what just happened. Fascial connection from foot to hand, center of gravity, drop throws, spiraling directions of force...all friends of the smaller person. Those moments are always funny, but it is good to remember there is always a bigger fish out there, best survival strategy is not starting fights.

    • @ramzi_nabulsi
      @ramzi_nabulsi  2 роки тому

      That's awesome Raj. Can you tell me more about what you train exactly?

    • @trinidadraj152
      @trinidadraj152 2 роки тому +7

      @@ramzi_nabulsi Primarily kenpo for about 21-22 years, though a lot of that time I had cross trained. In our dojo growing up there was also an emphasis on boxing and kickboxing for those who wanted to get full contact experience. The actual kenpo system had an emphasis on "Chinese" roots. Executed properly the techniques would look similar to Miyahara sensei. ua-cam.com/video/Rd4XPIejNDo/v-deo.html
      Over the years I had done some wrestling too, submission grappling, and lately we have a Royce Gracie lineage instructor offers a class at our school, which I join when I can. Royce actually does a seminar with us about once a year, though I've only attended once. For a while I worked out with a group that practiced a "soft judo" refined by Soke Winebrenner, which simplified the principles of off-balancing.
      Around ten years ago when I was becoming disenchanted with kata and forms I met a friend with whom I trained for some years. He had the fortune of learning much Oyata's sensei's kenpo before the master passed away, which introduced me to a completely different world of the arts, revealing internal aspects of kata training, unique emphasis nerve strikes and tuite, Okinawan style wrist locks. Very practical and simplified kempo, though very challenging to study given the nerve pain.
      The same friend would share with my from his background in aikido, some of the Korean arts, and Hakko Ryu. I became fascinated how in the Japanese internal arts they would practice seizing the attacker's root by extending their hands "energy" into the other body, often to aid seizing techniques. I was always more fascinated by trying to understand why it worked more than anything.
      Ultimately this led me study the fascia, eventually realizing that some of the forms I had learned in my early days were actually very excellent for this kind of training. That aspect had been "hidden" in the forms the whole time. Given my small size I eventually narrowed down that practical self-defense techniques for me usually involve spiraling force laterally applied to the sides of small joints, 2-on-1 controls, drop throws, and spiraling takedowns to the attacker's flank or backside. Often the way I practice with a focus on internal rather than muscular force seems unorthodox to local martial artists, so I don't always advertise what it is I do.

    • @ramzi_nabulsi
      @ramzi_nabulsi  2 роки тому +4

      @@trinidadraj152 That's awesome man. Sounds like you're exploring a lot of great concepts and traditions.

    • @trinidadraj152
      @trinidadraj152 2 роки тому

      @@ramzi_nabulsi Also, at 5:11 in your match, great hand trap!

    • @ramzi_nabulsi
      @ramzi_nabulsi  2 роки тому +2

      @@trinidadraj152 my bread and butter

  • @theolima8929
    @theolima8929 Рік тому +1

    such honest aproach, thank you
    the comparison with wrestling is genius: when one does it is GREAT, but somehow taiji was to work ALL THE TIME...

  • @alexanderathanasiades5431
    @alexanderathanasiades5431 2 роки тому +7

    Awesome video! For me personally, I wouldn't say it's a matter of it being real or not. It is pretty clear to me that the skill, if honed enough, exists. You can push someone out without the conventional contraction method. However, what is a matter of debate is if it is able to be used in any opponent, in any situation. The more I practice with compliant partners, the easier it is to apply it with both resisting or wet-noodle partners who are less and less compliant. It's just a matter of training (in my head) to be able to also apply it in a combative environment. It might not look so clean and pretty as the demonstrations in the video, but the engine powering the generated force to affect the partner/opponent is more than just a push.

    • @ramzi_nabulsi
      @ramzi_nabulsi  2 роки тому +3

      well said Alexander!

    • @1TrueNature
      @1TrueNature Рік тому

      That's a really nice explanation/view point. It probably wouldn't look anything like as it appears in a controlled environment like this. Practice, sparring and repetition makes a thing become second nature, and when it is second nature it works.

  • @briansprock2248
    @briansprock2248 10 місяців тому

    No story. Always great to hear yours.

  • @kriba6755
    @kriba6755 2 роки тому +1

    True words.
    Like you said it's an entry level. Or how I often say, a basic exercise that allows you to shape your basic (or root) FaJin.
    But if you want it to become martial, than you have to get of your comfort zone, and train it out.

  • @LogosFlow
    @LogosFlow 8 місяців тому

    There's long fajin for pushes and throws and there's short fajin for strikes and joint attacks. The principle is the same. When you're introduced to this at first you can tell that the person is doing something more than just strength, but it takes a while of practicing in the right way before you can do it yourself. If you want to use this principle in real time you have to train for that, and your timing and sensitivity must be very good. Most of the videos available of people practicing or demonstrating fajin are of a single move, but in practice you try to apply it to every move and position. Before you can do fajin you have to feel the quiet out of which it comes.

  • @alchimievitale
    @alchimievitale Рік тому

    I like your practical and wise approach to the subject.

  • @tonbonthemon
    @tonbonthemon 2 роки тому +3

    Hmm. The question is, "is Fajin real or fake?" but the answer seems to be directed more toward "if Fajin is real, is it effective in a fighting scenario?" In fact the whole video seems to be about addressing skepticism of a training method, not the nature of fajin.

    • @ramzi_nabulsi
      @ramzi_nabulsi  2 роки тому +1

      Yes. Whether Jin is real or not is a different angle. I was addressing a common misunderstanding that the demo most be fake because it isn't perfectly replicated under pressure.

    • @tonbonthemon
      @tonbonthemon 2 роки тому +2

      @Ngo david Yes, that is true. But my critique is more directed at the way the title question is "is fajin real" but then somehow shifts to "yes fajin is real and here's how it works in push hands demonstrations". I.e. the question is answered yes with no explanation of what it really is.

    • @tonbonthemon
      @tonbonthemon 2 роки тому

      @Ngo david Can you please explain to me how that is relevant to what I said?

  • @rpullman
    @rpullman 2 роки тому +1

    At 75 yo my interest is exclusively in health benefits from (about an hour) daily practice of baduanjin, zhan zhuang and tai chi. Baduanjin/cast out all evils seems akin to fa jin. I hardly lift my heels and, relaxed, just let myself drop but the impact is very forceful, enough to rattle the dishes in the cupboard.

  • @indefenceofthetraditionalma
    @indefenceofthetraditionalma 2 роки тому +4

    They are jumping though

  • @Sammo247
    @Sammo247 Рік тому

    I was just about to rip that apart when you came on to tell me that was woo Excellente accuracy is first. Are you an Aussie?

  • @jakephelps4924
    @jakephelps4924 2 роки тому

    I appreciate the explanation. You have cleared up a lot in this short video. I am new to all of this and still trying to figure out how far I am going to take things.

  • @manuelwerling
    @manuelwerling Рік тому

    Your content is gold. Thanks!

  • @arikarma
    @arikarma Рік тому

    Loud and clear !

  • @nvisblfist1
    @nvisblfist1 Рік тому

    What a lot of non internal artists don’t understand is that we are looking for resistance

    • @ramzi_nabulsi
      @ramzi_nabulsi  Рік тому

      Exactly. Muay Thai guys are so bound up they go flying!

  • @johndough8115
    @johndough8115 Рік тому

    The thing is... Fajin in this "PUSH" based Form, IS just basically a Demo. You do not PUSH a serious Attacker away from you, in Combat... unless they are near the edge of a Cliff. Real high level Fajin (explosive power), is in fact, designed for Strikes. Not strikes that PUSH the OP away... but strikes that cause the OPs internals to Rupture. The OP should not move more than a single step away, after being struck. If they so, then your Fajin skill is Weak / Diffused.
    So the Entire Argument, kind of falls on its face. These push demos, were mainly designed to give an Audience, a Spectacle, to gain more Students. Also, because Impact based fajin, cant be SEEN with the eyes... it can only really be FELT. The use of pushing, is also incorporated into the training, to be "Nice" to the training partner. While Tai Chi can in fact be used for grappling, pushing..etc.. its primary combat option, would be... Lethal Striking. Do you think all of those Bladed weapons in Tai Chi... are only for Exercise?! Do you think that a Tai Chi Swordsman.. would only use non lethal Push methods?
    Sometimes I wonder, if most of the Tai Chi practitioners even KNOW what real Impact based Fajin Striking, actually is.

  • @TaijiquanGaoshou
    @TaijiquanGaoshou Рік тому +1

    It is clearly seen on this video that one person deliberately stiffens up and pushes very high and extremely one-lined horizontally, then the other person just squats lower and pushes back and slightly upward with his or her MUSCLE power -- ahd voila, the coveted "fajin hop" is happening. You don't need Taiji to do that. Those "skills" don't even need to be taught -- this is a natural reaction of the human body.

  • @ToniMattTony
    @ToniMattTony 6 місяців тому +1

    It's not for fighting

  • @merikmalhads1676
    @merikmalhads1676 Рік тому

    I used to think Chi was simply a superstitious concept until acupuncture effectively helped me control and reduce the pain of my chronic pain which eventually turned out to be inflammatory bowel disease. I went in just looking for some way to reduce the nonsensical amount of pain that I was in but when it worked so effectively, I had to learn why.
    My practitioner managed to give me a book called "The Spark in the Machine" written by a British emergency room doctor who studied traditional Chinese medicine after practicing for 10 years (he wrote it 10 years later so likely 20 years at the time he finishes that book). He breaks down the probable science behind what the TCM world has likely gained through 10000 years of trial and error in much more advanced medical terms. He tries to bridge the understanding and also highlights the limitations inherit to the practice as well as some locations where it might be incredibly important to new scientific research in areas specifically of chronic disease care where we can learn a lot from it.
    The general gist of things is that "Chi" (or Qi) is most likely the net bioelectric flow over the major folds in fascia [a saran-wrap like tissue covering all the muscles and organs composed of nearly pure collagen] as well as the piezoelectric charge generated created when collagen is stretched and compressed. Basically, what I'm getting from Fa jin is that it tries to use the piezoelectric charge generated to maximize the output of energy from your muscles. I had figured while reading this it could apply like this in martial arts but, while I'm certain I've used it in my Taekwondo primarily, I've never trained it directly. Interesting... now I need to find out what targeting an opponent's chi is called to understand the principle more completely

    • @ramzi_nabulsi
      @ramzi_nabulsi  Рік тому

      the word 'chi' like the word 'energy' has many meanings and often cannot be measured or quantified.
      We already know this when using the word 'energy' in english. Petrol is an energy. A loving presence is an energy. Moonlight Sonata is an energy.

    • @merikmalhads1676
      @merikmalhads1676 Рік тому

      @@ramzi_nabulsi It might be so as a basic concept, but energy doesn't exist in this world without informational form. The Chi applied by the body is in electrochemical form which is directed by resistance around the fascia layers. That's at least my current working hypothesis

  • @SnakeAndTurtleQigong
    @SnakeAndTurtleQigong 2 роки тому

    Thanks for the reality check!

  • @enforcer0011
    @enforcer0011 2 роки тому

    Great video Ramzi, miss ya
    D

    • @ramzi_nabulsi
      @ramzi_nabulsi  2 роки тому +1

      cheers bro. we're overdue for a banana mango shake.

  • @TaijiquanGaoshou
    @TaijiquanGaoshou Рік тому

    So, "fajin" only works until the pertner decides to punch you back, after that it is all "claws and fangs" and TRICKS (I loved te word !). How about those top MMA people who could not move Mizner one inch ? TRICKS too, I suspect.

    • @ramzi_nabulsi
      @ramzi_nabulsi  Рік тому +1

      Are you familiar with the 'straw man’ fallacy?

  • @entrenamientos9295
    @entrenamientos9295 5 місяців тому

    Let's think about it a bit. If the belt were so effective, boxers would practice it instead of hitting a bag. A trained boxer punches you and you don't get up. And it doesn't take that long to develop a good punch. I love tai chi, I've been practicing the Chen style for a long time, the practical method of Master Chen Zhonghua, which is the most effective I've seen. But that doesn't mean I can't recognize that boxing, judo, and Jiu Jitsu are very effective martial arts in real combat. Taijiquan, properly trained, can be very effective. What you usually see are those pushes, but that's not going to give you defensive capacity, and neither are blocks. You have to box, receive blows, give blows, knock down, to prepare yourself for a fight. If you don't train that way, you'll get hit and you'll be finished.

    • @ramzi_nabulsi
      @ramzi_nabulsi  5 місяців тому

      Great word count, thank you for your contribution 🙏

  • @HenkBoshoff
    @HenkBoshoff Рік тому

    It is real, has levels of skill in issuer and defender.

  • @anarsim5926
    @anarsim5926 2 місяці тому

    Now i'm older i can understand the mechanics of fajin better, with age you understand economy of motion and preservation of energy more, how you train in youth is different than in old age. Against good fighters you will soon realise you need to get your basics down or you will get hurt. If you can't hit or take a hard blow you will not understand the internal aspects but you will learn pain. A dude in his 70s who has had a life of martial arts can fall back on this stuff but treating it as a mystical exercise is idiotic or a party trick

  • @kwantumd
    @kwantumd 2 роки тому

    Very nice!, you should put your socials on your about me page on this channel for easy access! - thanx for sharing 🙏

  • @charlesbetancourt7337
    @charlesbetancourt7337 2 роки тому +1

    I hope a the " unhealthy " skeptics are listening. That's why I point them to videos like " vs.wrestling heaven man earth". Or " Tai chi vs. wrestling maybe Greco Roman angle 1 shadow xu". The Tai chi guys are bettering qualified opponents, but they're not gods or invincible. They get taken down too.

  • @stanislavdvorak1707
    @stanislavdvorak1707 Рік тому

    Fajin je reálný, a funguje dobre...Ne každý kdo o nem mluvi,ho ovládá...Chce dlouhe roky kvalutne cvičit techniky a Qigong.A cvicit se musi i Fajin.Pak to funguje...

  • @andresortega2801
    @andresortega2801 Рік тому

    Basketball players also used this

  • @indefenceofthetraditionalma

    There are a lot of people that do jump though

    • @indefenceofthetraditionalma
      @indefenceofthetraditionalma Рік тому

      Would like to note that I actually like this video and explanation

    • @ramzi_nabulsi
      @ramzi_nabulsi  Рік тому +1

      100% many counterfeit demos out there.
      Or teachers who insinuate there is no compliance whatsoever.

  • @yeotctaichi
    @yeotctaichi 2 роки тому

    Taichi is not that easy to learn and to understand in is much harder to do it. Fa jin in taichi u must really understand it what is fa. And what is jin many of the opponent using fa jin with alot of strength. Not the real internal fa jin. For fa using your hand with no strength and reaching the opponent body it cone come to jin that is internal energy is not the strength is the internal qi as jin. If u can understand the six internal energy in your body then is much more easy to apply. This is my understanding I may be wrong. Just to share abit only .

  • @chinesebob7220
    @chinesebob7220 2 роки тому

    Yeah push hands is a skill contest. You see Adam Mizner barely moving and throwing bodies around because they have no skill. But he won't budge someone at his skill level or higher.

    • @ramzi_nabulsi
      @ramzi_nabulsi  2 роки тому +3

      Many of his demo partners are highly skilled. But their job is not to fight. Much like when a pad holder presents pads to a boxer. The boxer can demonstrate the combinations, speed and power they have. The pad holder is playing their role in demonstrating that skill.
      If Adam pushed with someone of equal skill it would look like a struggle because they would cancel each other out.

    • @indefenceofthetraditionalma
      @indefenceofthetraditionalma Рік тому

      @@ramzi_nabulsihow do you feel about mizner being able to make someone jump by flexing his thigh muscle?

  • @Shimkrishna
    @Shimkrishna 2 роки тому

    It’s very easy

  • @MatsuoBasho-m9w
    @MatsuoBasho-m9w Рік тому

    I guess if you express a different opinion it gets removed.
    🙂

    • @ramzi_nabulsi
      @ramzi_nabulsi  Рік тому

      Look around the channel. Many opposing views and some ad hominem. I haven't deleted any of them. I encourage any discussion.

  • @malmess2164
    @malmess2164 Рік тому

    Ah la bagarre, le meilleur fajin que j'ai vu c'est un coup de feu de flingue, et c'est proche du non agir 😊

  • @BobJohnson992
    @BobJohnson992 2 роки тому

    Somehow a lot of would-be Taiji practitioners have confused Ti Fang with Fajin. Uprooting someone is easy, but it's not the whole-body shaking release of power that is called Fajin. In fact, there are plenty of videos available on UA-cam that show the whole-body shaking ability and there is even a video from Fu Zhong Wen's grandson demonstrating the Yang Family version of fajin. Showing uprooting is not the same thing. If people are going to "teach" Taijiquan, they should at least get the terms correct.

    • @ramzi_nabulsi
      @ramzi_nabulsi  2 роки тому +2

      Mike I think you have misunderstood what is being demonstrated. You are welcome to come visit one day and I can show you.

    • @BobJohnson992
      @BobJohnson992 2 роки тому

      @@ramzi_nabulsi Why not just post a short video of you doing actual fajin? Except for a few minor downstream offshoots of "Tai Chi", the definition of "fajin" is pretty fixed. I know real fajin pretty well and Ti Fang is not the same thing as fajin ... plus tifang is easy to do and teach. Maybe it would help if you weren't calling tifang as fajin and then we could get into why I would want to visit to learn from you. I already have some pretty well-known teachers.
      Here's a video of a respected member of the Yang Family lineage demonstrating his understanding of "Fajin". Perhaps you can send them a message about how they don't understand what fajin is? ;) ua-cam.com/video/n2V22uBJqSg/v-deo.html

    • @symbolsarenotreality4595
      @symbolsarenotreality4595 2 роки тому +1

      I understood Ramzi saying that uprooting someone aids in fajin and the more a partner gives you their centre the easier to uproot and then fa them.

    • @symbolsarenotreality4595
      @symbolsarenotreality4595 2 роки тому +1

      Fajin means emitting explosive force. Disrupting and controlling someones balance (uprooting) before you release sudden force through them is essential for the force to disrupt their structure, otherwise it could come back to you and disrupt your structure, especially if the person you are applying force to has greater mass than you.

    • @BobJohnson992
      @BobJohnson992 2 роки тому +1

      @@symbolsarenotreality4595 You're confusing fajin with some idea you have of "applications", in your mind.

  • @clementray1410
    @clementray1410 Рік тому

    You fajin to hit and hurt people fr lol

  • @paaninileo3068
    @paaninileo3068 Рік тому

    A blatant lie

  • @bernabefranco6341
    @bernabefranco6341 Рік тому

    Fake😂😂