My father and I bought a Grouser dozer blade 15-20 years ago for a 8875 JD skidsteer with tracks over the tires - we also turned the injector pump up some to make more power. That turned that machine into a pushing beast. Much faster than a 350 or 450 dozer, much more maneuverable and could push about the same. The little bit less it could push compared to a conventional dozer was easily made up with speed. THe blade was so heavy it balanced the machine almost equally on all four tires and with the added counterweights it weighed all but 15k. This is nothing new.
These are perfect for what we do.. we work on Right of ways mostly for pipelines our company has 2 divisions 1) Cut, clear, and Mulch or haul away cleared Timber 2) We do Reclamation after the pipeline company lays the pipe.. these are perfect for the final grading and water bar construction.. we currently have around 50 CTLs mostly Caterpillar 299's and a few New Hollands
I think Deere is just adding a blade on their ctl and calling it a dozer to compete with case. It seems to be more of a finish grade machine because it does have integrated grade control, but other than that it’s just a ctl with a blade
I am glad that the Case machine was mentioned. This Deere thing is a toy in comparison. My speculation: Deere did this for a few reasons: * The cost to run a program to release a 3D grade system and a 6 way blade was cheap. * There was no time to develop a truly game changing machine to compete with Case. * Deere is hedging their bets, as sales of these machines are unknown. If Case sales are good, and customers demand it, they will develop something like Case but will have a hard time getting around all the patents that Case generated with their machine. * I am sure they have some prototypes running around that better mirror the Case machine. Again, Case's market position will determine if those hit production or just will be an internal experiment. * Deere gets some bragging rights by saying they were first to market with factory integrated 3D blade control system. * Deere is launching this 3 years after Case showed the world a better machine in 2017 - a little late to the party. * Welp, sure you are first. Congratulations. This will never give better performance than Case with a blade mounted to a loader arm instead of a frame. (Speaking of loader arm, did Deere beef that arm up to take this extra load? I'd be asking if I was in the market....).
I have been asking Bobcat to build a CTD ( compact track dozer) since I ran the grader HD prototype for them years ago. I own Aplus laser grading service llc and have been using bobcat grader attachment for 20 years! Now is the time for this CTD to be built with plug and play grade control.laser 3-d 2-d and gps
I'm sure they both have their own calling, But I would go with the case 550G, it has a much higher lift capacity at over 5000lbs and the metal tracks, and other little perks.
Would really appreciate a video showing how to set up and operate the smart grade dozing features of this machine. Will you ever actually jump into the cab and run one so we can see how this system works?
I’ve been using a 333g for about three years now. While the lifting capacity is impressive, I’m not impressed with the pushing power. I know it’s compact version. So it’ll probably be good for moderate sized landscaping jobs
I own a oil and gas service company and a machine like this would be perfect I could go from dozing in a new lease road to picking up and moving production equipment with one machine that I could haul easily behind the pickup
Case’s ROC of 5,500# is rated at 50% and the given 333G spec in the video is at 35% (35% ROC is the common rating for CTL’s. 50% is common to wheel skid steer machines because they are unable to stabilize loads compared to the tracks). If you compare the actual spec apples for apples the Deere has a 50% ROC of 5,285# so it’s not that far off from the Case. So for the Case to be a 18,000# machine vs the Deere at 12,100# the 215# Case higher ROC 50% rating is not that impressive. All that added weight doesn’t gain you much. ROC is a relative rating based on manufacturer average safe operating at a range of slope and operating conditions. When you want to get down to the machine performance on a CTL then it is all about breakout force. For those unaware of what that is, it is the max weight at which the hydraulic cylinders can lift before max out and stopping motion. The Deere is rated at 8,250# at the boom (and it will actually do it on flat ground without tipping and load 8,000# jersey barriers onto semi trailers). Have not seen Case spec on breakout force. From experience, most manufacturers won’t advertise breakout force because it is not as high as most would think and only hover in the territory of a little over ROC rating. If you’re going to give specs at least give comparable facts.
Very good points, Brad. You obviously know a thing or two. I've got some comments below, but I have always had respect for the way Deere advertises its specifications. They generally are conservative and truthful, which I believe is one of the fairest things to tell a customer. Case does the same things. Both brands do a great job designing and manufacturing machinery. Comments: * Breakout force many times is not listed because it can be very misleading. Breakout force is directly related to the length of the bucket. Since buckets vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, it is not something can be easily lined up and compared (Maybe SAE should make a standard??) The longer the bucket is from pivot to cutting edge, the lower breakout force (I'm not telling you anything new.) I could not find the breakout spec on the Deere machine, but it should give you an assumed length or type of the bucket used for measurement. If you ever really want to know breakout force, contact the engineering group through the dealer and they can tell you exactly what you will get with the attachment you have. So, point is, can't really directly compare, even if available without qualification. The breakout comes independent of ROC. * Your comments on ROC are good. My guess is that the actual spec of the ROC on the Case machine may be understated. I'm even wondering if the machine may not tip, but rather be hydraulically limited at something much higher than 5500#, given the weight. Even if it was 11000 lbs at hydraulic limit, they might have wanted to advertise it as a 550 only because of the relation to the Dozer product line naming conventions. It will be interesting to see what people think when they are available.
george200099 You are very correct in that breakout along with ROC both are determined by many factors. With ROC Deere usually uses 2 buckets, the shorter bottomed foundry and longer bottomed construction buckets. Breakout force is probably similarly found more often with forks for larger weight lifts. Ag tractors have the Nebraska testing to accurately compare machines and not sure the construction industry has the same. The Case machine does look impressive. I do feel that it is a little more small dozer purpose built. The weight gives it the cutting and pushing advantage in dozer application . The drawback is that weight makes it more difficult to transport in typical track loader application...not that the Deere 12,100# weight is easily transported, but more in line with compact construction settings. Also using an 18,000# Case machine in more typical track loader applications seems to not be a great fit. Both companies are trying to bride the gap with these multi purpose machines and for good reason. There is good market for these large/small multi machines but I feel the Deere is a more multi purpose machine than the Case would be. For those looking for dozer applications on the smaller spectrum both machines seem to fit the bill. I’m interested in seeing more.
Dozer blades for skids aren't new, just revived because of the new larger machines. Reason they didn't work before is weight of the machine when compared to the soil and of course horsepower. I still think it's a finish blade and a bucket can do just as well; but it will finish grade better going forward.
JD good skidloader but them there CAT 289 and 299 great skidloaders for sure ran a deere and the bucket pins kept coming lose and falling out so have to go with CAT for sure
The Deere has integrated grade control, so you're not using this machine to just hog dirt around like on the Case DL550B, your using this machine in tight areas of a large job-site which all topography is mapped through GPS software; where a finish dozer or grader with GPS couldn't get to. Being integrated, the Deere system is more accurate, and vulnerability of the expensive GPS hardware is reduced/eliminated
Looks like everyone preferred the CASE over the DEERE, just like with CASES 580 series Backhoe thay where ahead of JD that still had a clutch pedal. I did LOVE the "T" handle blade control lever on the old 450 C John Deere, dozer Back then. I'm old school.
Thinking about starting a gravel grading co.. Originally the 333g was 74hp have they upgraded it to 100? That being said has anyone pushed gravel or small stone with it.
I've been a dozer operator for about 30 years started on worn out 450 case finish grading 10 years ran all ,my question is can you feel your grade if you get what I mean, is it smooth or learning to op a different animal thanks also what's weight &hp
This is all wrong. David’s Dozer has all the patents for automating a dozer blade attachment using GPS or any other grade control technology. I’ve known of David’s Dozer for years, and they’ve been doing automated dozer blade attachments since 2012. Just google them and you’ll see what I mean. They make their attachments for any track loaders, not just JD.
I'm not sure what Deere is thinking. This is nothing more than an add on attachment. Then the throw in a grade control package. Case has thought the design through. However, I don't know if the Case machine has the durability that is required. The Case units have had major electrical issues of past. I'm not a fan of any rubber track machine.
The Deere won't compete with the case. The case specs around 18k lbs like many smaller dozers. A 12k skid steer on rubber tracks just doesn't have the pushing power to compete with a dozer. That extra 6k lbs and steel tracks make a big difference.
Well you won’t see a 18000 LB machine of any kind in someones back yard . They both have there advantages and place . You can’t unload a steel track machine on the street so you see each has its place and price will make a big difference in any case . I do like that case dozer but it is bigger and you would need a machine that heavy to have steel tracks to do the job .
@@dallasbaiton3234 The area i think the case will excel in is initial site pret/clearing work. It is almost the size of a D4 /Deere 450 dozer but could also be used like a CTL and would work well so you have one machine that can function like 2. Being able to effectively use all the CTL attachments like a bucket/grapple/rake etc and push like a dozer is appealing. The Deere 333G is mainly a CTL with a blade which I have yet to find a good review about that setup mostly due to the CTL not having enough weight to be effective at pushing and having rubber tracks. The rubber tracks don't dig in like steel and tend to slide on top of the ground so its alot easier for the pile to steer the machine if they are corner loading the blade or pushing with alot of blade angle in firm materials. For those reasons i think this particular configuration will struggle to find a large niche in the market. Fully agree on the comments about tracks and roads and fitting into most backyards. Definitely not a good choice in typical landscape work, and areas with smaller established yards.
I would take the case over the deer all day long. Deere is overpriced like Caterpillar and it never seems to do dollar for dollar what the case can do, along with fuel economy just isn't there.
My father and I bought a Grouser dozer blade 15-20 years ago for a 8875 JD skidsteer with tracks over the tires - we also turned the injector pump up some to make more power. That turned that machine into a pushing beast. Much faster than a 350 or 450 dozer, much more maneuverable and could push about the same. The little bit less it could push compared to a conventional dozer was easily made up with speed. THe blade was so heavy it balanced the machine almost equally on all four tires and with the added counterweights it weighed all but 15k. This is nothing new.
Very useful information dude. Having a 2 in 1 machine would definitely be a good investment in my start up company.
Thanks for watching! And good luck to you in getting the company going.
Literally demoed one here in Calgary yesterday, amazing machine. Have one ordered
These are perfect for what we do.. we work on Right of ways mostly for pipelines our company has 2 divisions 1) Cut, clear, and Mulch or haul away cleared Timber 2) We do Reclamation after the pipeline company lays the pipe.. these are perfect for the final grading and water bar construction.. we currently have around 50 CTLs mostly Caterpillar 299's and a few New Hollands
I like how clearly yuo explained the details, very informative 👌
I think Deere is just adding a blade on their ctl and calling it a dozer to compete with case. It seems to be more of a finish grade machine because it does have integrated grade control, but other than that it’s just a ctl with a blade
The moving from Job to Job is a plus in its self.
I am glad that the Case machine was mentioned. This Deere thing is a toy in comparison. My speculation: Deere did this for a few reasons:
* The cost to run a program to release a 3D grade system and a 6 way blade was cheap.
* There was no time to develop a truly game changing machine to compete with Case.
* Deere is hedging their bets, as sales of these machines are unknown. If Case sales are good, and customers demand it, they will develop something like Case but will have a hard time getting around all the patents that Case generated with their machine.
* I am sure they have some prototypes running around that better mirror the Case machine. Again, Case's market position will determine if those hit production or just will be an internal experiment.
* Deere gets some bragging rights by saying they were first to market with factory integrated 3D blade control system.
* Deere is launching this 3 years after Case showed the world a better machine in 2017 - a little late to the party.
* Welp, sure you are first. Congratulations. This will never give better performance than Case with a blade mounted to a loader arm instead of a frame. (Speaking of loader arm, did Deere beef that arm up to take this extra load? I'd be asking if I was in the market....).
Excellent ideas, long overdue.
Just from the forward visibility aspect alone, skid steers have a big advantage over the standard dozer design.
It's my understanding dozers have better visibility your Empire and you can see both sides of the Is blade
I have been asking Bobcat to build a CTD ( compact track dozer) since I ran the grader HD prototype for them years ago. I own Aplus laser grading service llc and have been using bobcat grader attachment for 20 years! Now is the time for this CTD to be built with plug and play grade control.laser 3-d 2-d and gps
Pretty sik could only imagine what this would do for motocross track owners instead of having a expensive ass dozer this is a game changer
I'm sure they both have their own calling, But I would go with the case 550G, it has a much higher lift capacity at over 5000lbs and the metal tracks, and other little perks.
Would really appreciate a video showing how to set up and operate the smart grade dozing features of this machine. Will you ever actually jump into the cab and run one so we can see how this system works?
I’ve been using a 333g for about three years now. While the lifting capacity is impressive, I’m not impressed with the pushing power. I know it’s compact version. So it’ll probably be good for moderate sized landscaping jobs
I own a oil and gas service company and a machine like this would be perfect I could go from dozing in a new lease road to picking up and moving production equipment with one machine that I could haul easily behind the pickup
How interchangeable are the attachments between the 333g CTL vs Forrestry Package? Cause I want one machine that can do them all..
Case’s ROC of 5,500# is rated at 50% and the given 333G spec in the video is at 35% (35% ROC is the common rating for CTL’s. 50% is common to wheel skid steer machines because they are unable to stabilize loads compared to the tracks). If you compare the actual spec apples for apples the Deere has a 50% ROC of 5,285# so it’s not that far off from the Case. So for the Case to be a 18,000# machine vs the Deere at 12,100# the 215# Case higher ROC 50% rating is not that impressive. All that added weight doesn’t gain you much. ROC is a relative rating based on manufacturer average safe operating at a range of slope and operating conditions. When you want to get down to the machine performance on a CTL then it is all about breakout force. For those unaware of what that is, it is the max weight at which the hydraulic cylinders can lift before max out and stopping motion. The Deere is rated at 8,250# at the boom (and it will actually do it on flat ground without tipping and load 8,000# jersey barriers onto semi trailers). Have not seen Case spec on breakout force. From experience, most manufacturers won’t advertise breakout force because it is not as high as most would think and only hover in the territory of a little over ROC rating. If you’re going to give specs at least give comparable facts.
Very good points, Brad. You obviously know a thing or two. I've got some comments below, but I have always had respect for the way Deere advertises its specifications. They generally are conservative and truthful, which I believe is one of the fairest things to tell a customer. Case does the same things. Both brands do a great job designing and manufacturing machinery. Comments:
* Breakout force many times is not listed because it can be very misleading. Breakout force is directly related to the length of the bucket. Since buckets vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, it is not something can be easily lined up and compared (Maybe SAE should make a standard??) The longer the bucket is from pivot to cutting edge, the lower breakout force (I'm not telling you anything new.) I could not find the breakout spec on the Deere machine, but it should give you an assumed length or type of the bucket used for measurement. If you ever really want to know breakout force, contact the engineering group through the dealer and they can tell you exactly what you will get with the attachment you have. So, point is, can't really directly compare, even if available without qualification. The breakout comes independent of ROC.
* Your comments on ROC are good. My guess is that the actual spec of the ROC on the Case machine may be understated. I'm even wondering if the machine may not tip, but rather be hydraulically limited at something much higher than 5500#, given the weight. Even if it was 11000 lbs at hydraulic limit, they might have wanted to advertise it as a 550 only because of the relation to the Dozer product line naming conventions. It will be interesting to see what people think when they are available.
george200099
You are very correct in that breakout along with ROC both are determined by many factors. With ROC Deere usually uses 2 buckets, the shorter bottomed foundry and longer bottomed construction buckets. Breakout force is probably similarly found more often with forks for larger weight lifts. Ag tractors have the Nebraska testing to accurately compare machines and not sure the construction industry has the same. The Case machine does look impressive. I do feel that it is a little more small dozer purpose built. The weight gives it the cutting and pushing advantage in dozer application . The drawback is that weight makes it more difficult to transport in typical track loader application...not that the Deere 12,100# weight is easily transported, but more in line with compact construction settings. Also using an 18,000# Case machine in more typical track loader applications seems to not be a great fit. Both companies are trying to bride the gap with these multi purpose machines and for good reason. There is good market for these large/small multi machines but I feel the Deere is a more multi purpose machine than the Case would be. For those looking for dozer applications on the smaller spectrum both machines seem to fit the bill. I’m interested in seeing more.
Dozer blades for skids aren't new, just revived because of the new larger machines. Reason they didn't work before is weight of the machine when compared to the soil and of course horsepower. I still think it's a finish blade and a bucket can do just as well; but it will finish grade better going forward.
JD good skidloader but them there CAT 289 and 299 great skidloaders for sure ran a deere and the bucket pins kept coming lose and falling out so have to go with CAT for sure
Can you use a cat brand blade on the 333g skid steer
Case is gonna blow this thing out of the water
You will never compete with a dozer blade that actually couples to the frame of the machine. Deere doesn't stand a chance on this one.
Deere was blown out of the water 4-5 years ago, and they still have the same platform.
The Deere has integrated grade control, so you're not using this machine to just hog dirt around like on the Case DL550B, your using this machine in tight areas of a large job-site which all topography is mapped through GPS software; where a finish dozer or grader with GPS couldn't get to. Being integrated, the Deere system is more accurate, and vulnerability of the expensive GPS hardware is reduced/eliminated
I've always though the ctl's are going to keep getting bigger.
Andrew Baron yep... the Case has the same machine control and it works with 3 different brands
Looks like everyone preferred the CASE over the DEERE, just like with CASES 580 series Backhoe thay where ahead of JD that still had a clutch pedal. I did LOVE the "T" handle blade control lever on the old 450 C John Deere, dozer
Back then. I'm old school.
Thinking about starting a gravel grading co.. Originally the 333g was 74hp have they upgraded it to 100? That being said has anyone pushed gravel or small stone with it.
I wish case offered a 450 version of the 550g I haven't ran either but the c frame connection on case has to make a smoother more accurate machine
But what I was getting at under 10,000 lbs
I have a John Deere 333G I'm wondering if they will have an upgrade kit. It truly is a great machine.
I've been a dozer operator for about 30 years started on worn out 450 case finish grading 10 years ran all ,my question is can you feel your grade if you get what I mean, is it smooth or learning to op a different animal thanks also what's weight &hp
They won an extra $100000 for the dozer blade and mapping system. That's too much money might as well get a used dozer
Yes it will help me out a lot
This would definitely make my land clearing Job easier slot
That’s what’s up!
This is all wrong. David’s Dozer has all the patents for automating a dozer blade attachment using GPS or any other grade control technology. I’ve known of David’s Dozer for years, and they’ve been doing automated dozer blade attachments since 2012. Just google them and you’ll see what I mean. They make their attachments for any track loaders, not just JD.
I'm not sure what Deere is thinking. This is nothing more than an add on attachment. Then the throw in a grade control package.
Case has thought the design through. However, I don't know if the Case machine has the durability that is required.
The Case units have had major electrical issues of past.
I'm not a fan of any rubber track machine.
There nice but Deeres is 155k & case is pushing 165k. That's alot
Case’s machine is steel tracked at least has an option for it I believe
I'd tend to lean towards the Case, with the C frame. More robust and purpose built.
Back filling / grading for a pipe crew because you don't need to buy both
Does anyone have pricing yet? Can't seem to get it
I paid right around $6k.
@@theweirick for the computer controlled blade? My dealer is saying it's not out for retail yet.
The 333g is 114,000 and the 3d set up is 95k so with a few added options they are 225k
The Deere won't compete with the case. The case specs around 18k lbs like many smaller dozers. A 12k skid steer on rubber tracks just doesn't have the pushing power to compete with a dozer. That extra 6k lbs and steel tracks make a big difference.
Well you won’t see a 18000 LB machine of any kind in someones back yard . They both have there advantages and place . You can’t unload a steel track machine on the street so you see each has its place and price will make a big difference in any case . I do like that case dozer but it is bigger and you would need a machine that heavy to have steel tracks to do the job .
@@dallasbaiton3234 The area i think the case will excel in is initial site pret/clearing work. It is almost the size of a D4 /Deere 450 dozer but could also be used like a CTL and would work well so you have one machine that can function like 2. Being able to effectively use all the CTL attachments like a bucket/grapple/rake etc and push like a dozer is appealing.
The Deere 333G is mainly a CTL with a blade which I have yet to find a good review about that setup mostly due to the CTL not having enough weight to be effective at pushing and having rubber tracks. The rubber tracks don't dig in like steel and tend to slide on top of the ground so its alot easier for the pile to steer the machine if they are corner loading the blade or pushing with alot of blade angle in firm materials. For those reasons i think this particular configuration will struggle to find a large niche in the market.
Fully agree on the comments about tracks and roads and fitting into most backyards. Definitely not a good choice in typical landscape work, and areas with smaller established yards.
I would take the case over the deer all day long. Deere is overpriced like Caterpillar and it never seems to do dollar for dollar what the case can do, along with fuel economy just isn't there.
Good tip man. Both Deere and cat seem overpriced. Haven’t looked at case yet though
Bruh, case is more than Deere. Cat 299 was 40k more than my 333g new.
Please say "Three Thirty-Three G"
Case will smoke Johnny's Deere, way better machine.....
Copy cat, oh wait you can buy a blade for any skidloader. Case has the beat
👍🇦🇺👀
Shuuurup and play the video ffs
Dress like a professional, not skate boarder