Kara is technically correct, washing machine is not a proper noun, however I think it is a fair clue and Ozza wasn’t cheating by using it. The opposing spymaster absolutely would have been fine with that clue. Anyways, here’s my engagement in the comments for the *worshing* machine argument, as the silly accent man instructed.
Here is why Kara is wrong though but right at the same time. Washing Machine is not a proper noun which is where she was correct, but Ozza is correct on that you can use Washing Machine as a clue and where Kara is wrong because the rules for CodeNames states that it is legal to use Compound Nouns in which that is what Washing Machine falls under.
"would have been fine" isn't "fine". You got to talk with the opposing spymaster to get their outlook. Never do something thinking someone else would agree with it unless they previously stated it. Something-something fair use something-something consent (a lot can be said around that "would have been fine"). Also, definitely would've denied the use of "washing machine". Just use "washer" - as you don't go to a store and ask an employee "Where can I buy a washing machine and a drying machine?", you go "Where can I buy a washer and dryer?" or "Where can I buy a washer/dryer combo (said "washer-dryer")?". If you couldn't use "Washer" or "Washing", could just say "detergent" if no clues relate to dishes, or clothesline to reference washing machine things (since you have to put the clothes through manual cleaning or a washing machine in order to use said clothesline). (Also as mini examples of "would have been fine" responses below) No Frank, nobody wanted you to get drunk off your ass in the party even though alcohol was given. And no [Insert Any React Channel on Twitch/UA-cam here], you were not given permission to use videos for your personal gain.
@@masterkevkev Washer is American English which isn't the English used around the world, the world uses forms of British English in which the Term washer doesn't exist, so people like Ozza wouldn't use that term and again in the base game maybe not the online version, but in the base version of the game you can use Washing Machine because it counts as a compound noun because there is no other noun for it and Washing Machine doesn't describe anything.
Ze, you should play Word Chain Codenames where every clue must start with the last letter of the previous clue. It could make for some fun shenanigans if someone gets a weird letter.
@@ifrit1937 Not all clues have to be proper nouns. The Codename rules say you can't have multiple words in a clue unless it's a proper noun. Even then you're technically also not supposed to a multi-word proper noun clue or even a compound word if a part of the clue is being used to clue a word that isn't related to the full clue. For example you're not allowed to use the clue "UA-cam" to also clue for "Socks" or "Slide" because those things can be tubes. So you can us a clue like "Steve Jobs" but only if you're using it to reference words related to Steve Jobs and not words that are Jobs or words that a related to other Steves.
Exactly and because what else are you gonna call it? The broken English term Washer which can refer to someone who washes things or the metal disk that you would use with bolts.
It's technically illegal, which is fair to speak about it and from their reactions they were all fine with it, but the moment Ozza overreacted about it there was no turning back. Pretty sure Kara was actually completely fine with the clue too.
@@justanotherLunny I read different in the online rulebook they said compound words are allowed and they have examples of what you cannot use like say a clue that has part of a word that is already on the board.
Kara's right that the rules say "one word", but there's also this rule: "Don't be too strict. England and island were originally compound words, but in this century, island is a valid clue for ENGLAND. Even land is a valid clue for ENGLAND. And anybody who says you can't say sparrow when ROW is on the table is just trying to cause trouble" Also related to the video but not the previous points, the rules say spelling out your clue is fine, so it stands to reason that when typing clues instead of speaking clues, you're allowed to clarify which pronunciation you typed.
I agree that the "don't be too strict" rule is really important. Kara might have been justified in calling Ozza out on a dubious clue, but she dragged it on for way too long. She should have let it drop after a comment or two.
@@kylerivera3470 from what I watched she seemed fine with it. The only advance she does is the starting one where she says it's technically illegal, but doesn't seem to mind it other than note it. Everything else is in response to Ozza.
@@justanotherLunny She would have easily dropped it if Ozza didn't fight that every noun is a proper noun or that she doesn't have an (obviously lacking) English degree.
@@justanotherLunny Except Ozza did drop it to a point, he started memeing just like everyone else in the group except for one person and that was Kara. Because Kara has to be right, "Ozza I'm worried you're not trolling" - not exact quote but that doesn't exactly sound like someone who's dropped it and is memeing. Meanwhile at that point Ozza was clearly joking.
From the rules (Flexible rules section, same section as Proper Names): "COMPOUND WORDS: English has three ways to write a compound word. Greenhouse is one word. Pack rat is two words. Mother-in-law is hyphenated. Technically, only greenhouse can be a one-word clue. You can decide to allow any compound words. However, in no case should a player be allowed to invent compound words. Lunar squid is not a valid clue for MOON and OCTOPUS." The hyphenation stuff *only* seems to be mentioned in the Compound Word flexible rule, so to allow hyphens but not spaces for compound words seems wrong; it's both or neither.
Washing Machine would count as a clue as long as there are no rules against compound nouns. Yes it isn't a proper noun but Ozza is correct as it states that compound nouns can be used.
Also in English in which the game is meant to be played in, there are three ways to write a compound word. You can write a compound noun with hyphens, with a space between the two words or occasionally the compound noun can be written with the two words combined.
I still have mine tucked in the corner. Teacher made one in class and gave every student a tube to take home as a project to do with our parents. I put glitter in mine and used a pair of 2-liter 7-Up bottles my mother helped me scrub clean of all label adhesive. My father then got some rubber cement from his workshop and we sealed the bottle. Still has the same water in it to this day.
I still have mine tucked in the corner. Teacher made one in class and gave every student a tube to take home as a project to do with our parents. I put glitter in mine and used a pair of 2-liter 7-Up bottles my mother helped me scrub clean of all label adhesive. My father then got some rubber cement from his workshop and we sealed the bottle. Still has the same water in it to this day.
3:51 a musketer were unit using Musket wich is an old rifle. But they used a rapier as a secondary weapon since musket were notoriously long to reload.
So I get Kara's argument and normally would agree with her, that it could be reduced to a single word clue in washer, I think it would be allowed. In Ozza's counterexample, White Russian is also fine, as it is a proper noun. In a third example, if Kara would have used "coffee liqueur" instead of White Russian, I don't think it would be allowed because it can't be reduced to a single word. That's just my take on it though. Like I personally would be fine if someone said "copy machine" instead of "copier" because there is a one word equivalent. All this said, though, I find it hilarious that Kara is getting upset with _her own spymaster_ for allegedly breaking the rules.
We don't use 'washer' in England tho. I'm British and tbh I would never think of calling a washing machine a washer so there isn't another word we use instead of washing machine
Looking at the codenames rules, Proper names are as much as a optional rule as two word compound words (Like Pack rat). It is under the same rule as the hypenated compound words. Kara is getting too hung up on this rule.
She made one comment about it and Ozza wanted to fight over it. Proper nouns is an optional rule, that's why she asked the opposing spymaster in the past.
@@Gloria.A She was picking a fight, there's a difference in say "Are we allowed to do that" versus Arguing then continuing the argument "its against the rules it's not a proper noun etc" Ozza even told them he got the other spymaster permission on top of the fact that Compound nouns (e.g washing machine) are allowed in code names. It's definitely not the first time shes done it
@@puppy3908 Except she absolutely was not picking a fight. Ze- Is washing machine a pronoun? Is this an illegal clue? Yeah. Kara- This might be an illegal clue. Ozza- It is not! It is an object. You gave White Russian, Kara. That's a noun. Kara- I asked Ze! I asked him. The fight did not start with Kara. As I stated, she would have not cared if he didn't specifically come for her. She stated an opinion that Ze also stated but Ozza came for her. "Are we allowed to do that?" is acceptable but "This might be an illegal clue." isn't is a very strange line to draw.
Except the base rules say one word only, no hyphens. Proper nouns are not an exception in the base ruleset. This means "White Russian" as a proper noun is still illegal. So is "washing machine". However, the rules state you can have a sidebar with the opposing spymaster and ask them if they will allow the illegal or questionable word.
@@sintanan469 Under flexible rules in Codenames, groups can elect to use proper names, and compound words, including two word like "Pack Rat" or a three word hyphenated like "Mother-in-Law".
@@sintanan469 The rules also have a "Flexible Rules" section, which allows certain exceptions to the base rules if they are agreed to be used. "White Russian" would fall under "Proper Names", which are allowed to be multiple words when using that rule. "Washing Machine" would fall under "Compound Words", which are allowed to be multiple/hyphenated when using that rule. I think they've been using both Compound Words and Proper Names rules in other games, but forgot that Compound Words is a separate rule, distinct from Proper Names.
Even if Kara was right (which imo she isn't) it was obvious no one else cared and yet she kept going and going with it. As long as everyone else is fine with it then it literally doesn't matter if it's a legal or not.
@@Zillionman2010 That's cause Kara has a massively overbloated ego. It's pretty clear that once she's set her mind on something she can't be wrong and anyone who doesn't agree with her is "dumb". This isn't the first time nor will it be the last time this happens.
Funny thing, I would have definitely clicked tie on the "tube" clue. In scaffolding, we use a short metal tube with a bracket on it when we have to attach to a building, which we call a "tie tube". Just a silly coincidence that those words lined up so perfectly in my personal experience.
I think the thing with washing machine versus washer, bc it legit upset me, was that it sounds like Kara is coming from RAW (rules as written) and Ozza was coming from RAI (rules as intended), which is very different. Like, both still follow the rules, but one is with a direction that says that if that combination is used regularly, then it should count, but if it's not, then disqualify it. But it did sound like two not meshing interpretations of the point of the rules was being applied. I would've clarified at the beginning, bc I did get upset, being able to see both sides.
Honestly, the more I watch Kara in these vids, the more I don't care for her attitude. She keeps acting like she knows what's best, but rarely have I seen her actually be "correct" about things. Most of the time, it just boils down to a difference of opinion on certain matters, like semantics, and that is not helpful towards reconciling conflicts. In fact, her strategy often leads to worsening conflicts than resolving them. Her competitive personality is the main culprit here. Sure, having a competitive mindset is a good trait to have for many reasons. Mainly, it promotes growth of one's skills when paired against a worthy rival, like in sports teams, industry shares, republics vs. dictatorships, video game competitors, etc. However, being consistently competitive can also make one too vain and cause them to fail in understanding the reasons as to why someone may think differently. Kara consistently fails to consider her opponents stance and hence often derails the conversation. Ze jumping on the Kara train also does her no favors to mature as a person and just reaffirms in her mind "she's right" when, in reality, it doesn't matter if she's right or not. In this instance, the group failed to establish the rules for compound terms beforehand, which led to an ultimately inconsequential argument rather than establishing some new agreed upon rules that would have resolved said conflict.
a washing machine is an object. it would be like saying that party float isnt allowed, school bus, etc etc. that would cross out several different simple nouns, idk how the grammar works there, if its considered a compound noun, but its designating one single thing, not several things.
Umm, I enjoyed the video, Ze. It's a clue to me. Idk how else you can describe a mechanism that cleans clothes. And I'm not gonna Google or look for it in an actual book about the word. You-Did-Great-Ze. Thank-You-Ze.
TECHNICALLY, Kara is right in saying its not a noun because its two words combined, adjective and then noun, a machine that washes. This goes for other words too, a plane can be a "flying vehicle", a robot can be called "Artificial Intelligence", etc. But its always an adjective and then noun after it..
@1:08:40(ish)...From context, sounds like Ozza was talking about the actress that played Sacagawea, not the historical person. According to Wikipedia, the actress was 29 when the 1st movie came out.
8:20 sorry but you're wrong. it's true that washing machine is not a proper noun, but there is no rule that says a clue has to be a proper noun so I have no idea why you're so hung up on that in the first place
as a person with two degrees in linguistics, I still find it incredibly hilarious how much english-speaking people want the language to be codified. like, I am over here, a speaker of a language with specific institutions protecting the "correct" form of language from pronunciation to vocabulary and sentence form, despairing over the fact that even though I am university educated in the language I still need to pay an editor to submit a paper, and there you are, arguing about whether washing machine can be hyphenated, how adorable.
If anyone didn’t understand Kara’s joke don’t worry I looked it up for you. It’s not a Ferris wheel but a Ferrous wheel. Ferrous is used as an adjective to describe something with iron in it.
Boy, these were some of the more heated Codenames’ sessions I’ve seen, but the rounds were still very enjoyable so I didn’t mind it really! I understand why Kara was annoyed by the washing machine clue since it is not a hyphenated word, and I do agree that rules can be bent if everyone agrees to that, but the passion and passive-aggressive responses that debate inspired were really something to watch, lol. I can’t believe the old ‘Is a hose a tube?’ debate came back again in Codenames! I would say it’s a tube and that it possesses holes, but I can see why the subject causes debate. I was surprised nobody made the Root-Tube connection until near the end of the game since I thought that was a strong clue-if only Pjonk had been on Ze’s team perhaps things could have gone differently. I want to commend Skadj for doing his best with a tough board, and Chey, who was very traumatized by being forced to click things, lol. The second game was a nice, refreshingly low-stakes round and I really loved the banter from it. ‘Vegas Baby’ is not a phrase I have heard before but I enjoyed the way Ze said it with that Elvis impression, lol. Leather definitely seemed like a clue for clothing so that was a good pick from Ze, and a good effort from the team all around. It was nice that Steve made an appearance in the third game, I think he really brought the Blue team together! I also loved the return of the hyphens because Jack and Chey just can’t help themselves, lol. Manscap-ET might be the funniest clue I’ve seen in a long time and it was a shame that the Red Team could not win with that masterpiece, but Blue losing after getting Tit-Anic was a travesty, lol. Thanks for another great video, Ze, and I hope there is another day of Codenames again soon!
right before they started talking about the titanic in this video, I literally watched a video on Facebook with a group of guys talking about how the one guy didn't know Jack and Rose were not real.
Washing machine is a compound common noun. Not a proper noun. Proper nouns identify unique people, places, or things and are typically capitalised. In this case, the term "washing" is used as either a pronoun or adjective as it is describing the type of machine that it is. That said, washing machines are a valid clue because it is a specific kind of object. No need for hyphenation. Also, Chey/Kara has such double standards and is such a rules lawyer within a private game for fun. Washing machine is a common noun. Not a proper noun. Proper nouns identify unique people, places, or things and are typically capitalised. In this case, the term "washing" is used as either a pronoun or adjective as it is describing the type of machine that it is. But because there are so many different kinds of washing machines, and because there are now millions of different machines in existence, washing machines are their own thing, in other words their own noun. That said, washing machine is a valid clue because it is a specific kind of object and is located within the dictionary. No need for hyphenation. It is a valid clue. Also, Chey/Kara have such double standards and are such rules lawyers within a private game for fun. It's not a competition, right? Also, majority rules when deciding among friends, right? As I saw, it was 3-2 in favor of allowing the clue with 3 obstains/don't cares until it kept going long enough for two obstains/don't cares to vote in favor, making it 5-2-1 in favor-against-obstain.
What is a proper noun? Revised on October 10, 2022. A proper noun is a noun that serves as the name for a specific place, person, or thing. To distinguish them from common nouns, proper nouns are always capitalized in English.Aug 18, 2022 Washing machine is a thing
Would you allow water bottle, baby bottle or soda bottle, or would you have them write bottle? Because the other word in that case becomes a descriptor. It gives more detail. The clues are supposed to be forced to be a bit ambiguous.
It's entirely possible that's a regional variation (like "pop" for soft drinks); I have only ever heard "washer" used to describe a washing machine in TV shows.
The word Washer belongs solely to a machine component utilized for fastening screws and bolts. The word "washer" is simply people being lazy and referring to something by describing half of what it does - washes, but washes what?
@@LilyMaeBlossom I mean, dishwasher is a word. A full on word. If the spymaster says washer - they're not intending on "Dishwasher" unless the word "Dish" was up on the board, thus you must connect it to "Washing Machine" or a vague term of somebody who'd wash something (so a clue connecting to "Car" or "Clothes"). Washer would definitely work.
Seems Kara needs to lookup what nouns and theories are haha. How else would you use a washing machine as a clue. Its a thing, its what it is called, there is no other way to say it.
Calling Washing Machine an illegal clue seems kinda sweaty imo It's not a proper noun, but it's the name of a singular object. You can't call something a "washing" or a "machine" and convey the same meaning as "washing machine." It would be the same concept as something like "license plate" At least you guys still had fun, just a weird hill to die on imo
Here's another washer opinion: front-loaders are gentler on your clothes and use less water. They are far superior to top-loaders. (And if top-loading dryers exist, they need to be DESTROYED, wtf?)
oof it's ok to have arguments/debates but the moment you call someone names between that.... now you're just being petty, but oh well it's all and good at the end i guess
Alright. You give us 10 minutes of English arguing, you get a comment explaining. Washing machine is both a compound noun and a common noun. White Russian is a proper noun and a compound noun. Codenames' rules states _only_ a single word that does not have a hyphen, and a number. You also cannot use a word partially containing or contained within a visible word on the board. If you have a word you are not sure about the spymasters are to discuss in private with the opposing spymaster having final say. This means no compound nouns, no proper nouns made of multiple words, no hypenated nouns. No making the clue "horse" if horseshoe is in play, nor making the clue "broken" if break is in play. This means Kara's hill to die on that White Russian is a legal word is false. And using "washing machine" is also against the rules. Again, without a sidebar and approval from the opposing spymaster.
From the rules: Proper Names Proper names are always valid clues if they follow the other rules. George is a valid clue, but you might want to specify whether you mean George Washington or George W. Bush. Your group can agree to count proper names as oneword. This would also allow titles such as The Three Musketeers. Even if you don't allow multiword proper names, you might want to make an exception for place names like New York. Spymasters should not be allowed to make up names, not even names that turn out to be real. Sue Mee is not a valid clue for CHINA and LAWYER
@@Dardove That's part of the _optional_ Flexible Rules. The base rules only allow single words. Flexible Rules options give leeway for proper nouns, and/or compound nouns. It depends on what options the group agreed on.
@@Dardove I never said Kara broke the rules. I said by the _base_ rules neither "washing machine" nor "White Russian" are valid. Considering they argued for 10 minutes over what words are valid makes me think they didn't agree ahead of time.
I was gonna comment on how great hashbrown is but Ze said we're only allowed to talk about the Washing Machine incident. It kinda seems like a way of clarification because just saying Washer can be confused for many things.
I don't really think it's a big deal BUT my two cents is that it's illegal clue since it's a compound word that's not a pronoun. I feel like "washing" describes the type of machine. I would have used Washer and gotten the same picks. Most people will think the machine. Some people might also link the little thing that goes with a bolt. The only reason to not use Washer, would be if the black card or other team card had "Bolt" on it. Then I would just ask.
I would've just left if I were Ozza because people who are THAT FUCKING STRICT about the rules, then jesus christ. Kara was arguing against an Englishman with an English degree, like bruh, how do you expect to win that?
I hate it when I find new streamers on you tube. I become a regular in their comments, they become very friendly with me in comments and then after a few months when I decide to check their stream, having a different stream name I am like a complete stranger to them. I am just being myself in their streams just as I am in their you tube comments but they seem to despise me. It happened only once and no it wasn't you ze
Honestly... I really didn't care about the argument that Kara raised... it was more of a 'oh here she goes again' thing and I skipped ahead to gameplay.
8:15 Washing Machine-slang term for woman. Honestly when I heard this clue, I looked for Chilled Chaos and woman as words cause I think they had a similar conversation
Dishwasher is a derogatory slang term for women. I don't think washing machine is as well, at least I've never heard it used in such a way, then again I don't go looking for people who use derogatory words against women too often lol.
She is correct that it isn't a proper noun, but two word compound words are under the same rule that allows Hyphenated compound words. Unless there is a separate ruleset they are using, I found that under the flexible rules found in the Czech games edition of the ruleset.
Ozza is wrong. One way to remember what is a common noun and a proper noun is that apple is common and Apple is proper. Simple as that! English isn't even my first language and I know this. Ozza should give his degree back.
*Everyone bickering about rules and nouns*
Ze: TUUUUUBBE
Kara is technically correct, washing machine is not a proper noun, however I think it is a fair clue and Ozza wasn’t cheating by using it. The opposing spymaster absolutely would have been fine with that clue.
Anyways, here’s my engagement in the comments for the *worshing* machine argument, as the silly accent man instructed.
Here is why Kara is wrong though but right at the same time. Washing Machine is not a proper noun which is where she was correct, but Ozza is correct on that you can use Washing Machine as a clue and where Kara is wrong because the rules for CodeNames states that it is legal to use Compound Nouns in which that is what Washing Machine falls under.
linguistically speaking, even the definition of "word" is a lot more loose than most people think and can include spaces
"would have been fine" isn't "fine". You got to talk with the opposing spymaster to get their outlook. Never do something thinking someone else would agree with it unless they previously stated it. Something-something fair use something-something consent (a lot can be said around that "would have been fine").
Also, definitely would've denied the use of "washing machine". Just use "washer" - as you don't go to a store and ask an employee "Where can I buy a washing machine and a drying machine?", you go "Where can I buy a washer and dryer?" or "Where can I buy a washer/dryer combo (said "washer-dryer")?". If you couldn't use "Washer" or "Washing", could just say "detergent" if no clues relate to dishes, or clothesline to reference washing machine things (since you have to put the clothes through manual cleaning or a washing machine in order to use said clothesline).
(Also as mini examples of "would have been fine" responses below)
No Frank, nobody wanted you to get drunk off your ass in the party even though alcohol was given.
And no [Insert Any React Channel on Twitch/UA-cam here], you were not given permission to use videos for your personal gain.
@@masterkevkev Washer is American English which isn't the English used around the world, the world uses forms of British English in which the Term washer doesn't exist, so people like Ozza wouldn't use that term and again in the base game maybe not the online version, but in the base version of the game you can use Washing Machine because it counts as a compound noun because there is no other noun for it and Washing Machine doesn't describe anything.
@@masterkevkev Washer is ambigious, washing machine would be the better way to refer to the single object.
Ze, you should play Word Chain Codenames where every clue must start with the last letter of the previous clue. It could make for some fun shenanigans if someone gets a weird letter.
Washing machine seems like a fine clue. It’s one object. You’re not describing the object or adding anything extra
@@ifrit1937 one thing against you is that all words get capitalized regardless of how you spell them. So tube was fine.
@@ifrit1937 Not all clues have to be proper nouns. The Codename rules say you can't have multiple words in a clue unless it's a proper noun. Even then you're technically also not supposed to a multi-word proper noun clue or even a compound word if a part of the clue is being used to clue a word that isn't related to the full clue. For example you're not allowed to use the clue "UA-cam" to also clue for "Socks" or "Slide" because those things can be tubes. So you can us a clue like "Steve Jobs" but only if you're using it to reference words related to Steve Jobs and not words that are Jobs or words that a related to other Steves.
Exactly and because what else are you gonna call it? The broken English term Washer which can refer to someone who washes things or the metal disk that you would use with bolts.
It's technically illegal, which is fair to speak about it and from their reactions they were all fine with it, but the moment Ozza overreacted about it there was no turning back. Pretty sure Kara was actually completely fine with the clue too.
@@justanotherLunny I read different in the online rulebook they said compound words are allowed and they have examples of what you cannot use like say a clue that has part of a word that is already on the board.
Kara's right that the rules say "one word", but there's also this rule:
"Don't be too strict. England and island were originally compound words, but in this century, island is a valid clue for ENGLAND. Even land is a valid clue for ENGLAND. And anybody who says you can't say sparrow when ROW is on the table is just trying to cause trouble"
Also related to the video but not the previous points, the rules say spelling out your clue is fine, so it stands to reason that when typing clues instead of speaking clues, you're allowed to clarify which pronunciation you typed.
I agree that the "don't be too strict" rule is really important. Kara might have been justified in calling Ozza out on a dubious clue, but she dragged it on for way too long. She should have let it drop after a comment or two.
@@kylerivera3470 from what I watched she seemed fine with it. The only advance she does is the starting one where she says it's technically illegal, but doesn't seem to mind it other than note it. Everything else is in response to Ozza.
@@justanotherLunny She would have easily dropped it if Ozza didn't fight that every noun is a proper noun or that she doesn't have an (obviously lacking) English degree.
@@justanotherLunny Except Ozza did drop it to a point, he started memeing just like everyone else in the group except for one person and that was Kara. Because Kara has to be right, "Ozza I'm worried you're not trolling" - not exact quote but that doesn't exactly sound like someone who's dropped it and is memeing. Meanwhile at that point Ozza was clearly joking.
Wasn't there a rule that your clue can't include a word that's already on the board?
Fun Fact: The tornado in the classic "The Wizard of Oz" was actually just a tube covered in black fabric
From the rules (Flexible rules section, same section as Proper Names):
"COMPOUND WORDS:
English has three ways to write a compound word. Greenhouse is one word. Pack rat is two words. Mother-in-law is hyphenated. Technically, only greenhouse can be a one-word clue.
You can decide to allow any compound words.
However, in no case should a player be allowed to invent compound words. Lunar squid is not a valid clue for MOON and OCTOPUS."
The hyphenation stuff *only* seems to be mentioned in the Compound Word flexible rule, so to allow hyphens but not spaces for compound words seems wrong; it's both or neither.
Washing Machine would count as a clue as long as there are no rules against compound nouns. Yes it isn't a proper noun but Ozza is correct as it states that compound nouns can be used.
Also in English in which the game is meant to be played in, there are three ways to write a compound word. You can write a compound noun with hyphens, with a space between the two words or occasionally the compound noun can be written with the two words combined.
A tornado tube is a thing. Most of us probably saw it as kids when a teacher would show us an experiment of water draining between 2 bottles.
I still have mine tucked in the corner. Teacher made one in class and gave every student a tube to take home as a project to do with our parents. I put glitter in mine and used a pair of 2-liter 7-Up bottles my mother helped me scrub clean of all label adhesive. My father then got some rubber cement from his workshop and we sealed the bottle. Still has the same water in it to this day.
I still have mine tucked in the corner. Teacher made one in class and gave every student a tube to take home as a project to do with our parents. I put glitter in mine and used a pair of 2-liter 7-Up bottles my mother helped me scrub clean of all label adhesive. My father then got some rubber cement from his workshop and we sealed the bottle. Still has the same water in it to this day.
Washing machine is completely fine in my book. Washer I'd sooner guess 'Dishwasher' or 'Carwash' before washing machine.
3:51 a musketer were unit using Musket wich is an old rifle. But they used a rapier as a secondary weapon since musket were notoriously long to reload.
This entire comment section makes me want "Codenames, but we can only use illegal clues" even though that is a terrible idea.
How about those rules in Codenames tho. Proper nouns and all that. Honestly Kara and Ozza bickering over rules was definitely a laugh I needed today.
So I get Kara's argument and normally would agree with her, that it could be reduced to a single word clue in washer, I think it would be allowed. In Ozza's counterexample, White Russian is also fine, as it is a proper noun. In a third example, if Kara would have used "coffee liqueur" instead of White Russian, I don't think it would be allowed because it can't be reduced to a single word. That's just my take on it though. Like I personally would be fine if someone said "copy machine" instead of "copier" because there is a one word equivalent.
All this said, though, I find it hilarious that Kara is getting upset with _her own spymaster_ for allegedly breaking the rules.
We don't use 'washer' in England tho. I'm British and tbh I would never think of calling a washing machine a washer so there isn't another word we use instead of washing machine
Looking at the codenames rules, Proper names are as much as a optional rule as two word compound words (Like Pack rat). It is under the same rule as the hypenated compound words.
Kara is getting too hung up on this rule.
I don't think she actually cared about it much, but when Ozza made such a big deal out of it she went in.
Kara gets hung up on random things alot, Sometimes she just needs a chill pill
She made one comment about it and Ozza wanted to fight over it. Proper nouns is an optional rule, that's why she asked the opposing spymaster in the past.
@@Gloria.A She was picking a fight, there's a difference in say "Are we allowed to do that" versus Arguing then continuing the argument "its against the rules it's not a proper noun etc" Ozza even told them he got the other spymaster permission on top of the fact that Compound nouns (e.g washing machine) are allowed in code names.
It's definitely not the first time shes done it
@@puppy3908 Except she absolutely was not picking a fight.
Ze- Is washing machine a pronoun? Is this an illegal clue? Yeah.
Kara- This might be an illegal clue.
Ozza- It is not! It is an object. You gave White Russian, Kara. That's a noun.
Kara- I asked Ze! I asked him.
The fight did not start with Kara. As I stated, she would have not cared if he didn't specifically come for her. She stated an opinion that Ze also stated but Ozza came for her.
"Are we allowed to do that?" is acceptable but "This might be an illegal clue." isn't is a very strange line to draw.
kara knows ozza is on her team, right?
Kara has too much integrity to let that slide
before kara started talking i agreed once she finished i agreed with ozza...
Except the base rules say one word only, no hyphens. Proper nouns are not an exception in the base ruleset.
This means "White Russian" as a proper noun is still illegal. So is "washing machine".
However, the rules state you can have a sidebar with the opposing spymaster and ask them if they will allow the illegal or questionable word.
@@sintanan469 Under flexible rules in Codenames, groups can elect to use proper names, and compound words, including two word like "Pack Rat" or a three word hyphenated like "Mother-in-Law".
@@sintanan469 The rules also have a "Flexible Rules" section, which allows certain exceptions to the base rules if they are agreed to be used.
"White Russian" would fall under "Proper Names", which are allowed to be multiple words when using that rule.
"Washing Machine" would fall under "Compound Words", which are allowed to be multiple/hyphenated when using that rule.
I think they've been using both Compound Words and Proper Names rules in other games, but forgot that Compound Words is a separate rule, distinct from Proper Names.
Even if Kara was right (which imo she isn't) it was obvious no one else cared and yet she kept going and going with it. As long as everyone else is fine with it then it literally doesn't matter if it's a legal or not.
@@Zillionman2010 That's cause Kara has a massively overbloated ego. It's pretty clear that once she's set her mind on something she can't be wrong and anyone who doesn't agree with her is "dumb". This isn't the first time nor will it be the last time this happens.
Funny thing, I would have definitely clicked tie on the "tube" clue. In scaffolding, we use a short metal tube with a bracket on it when we have to attach to a building, which we call a "tie tube". Just a silly coincidence that those words lined up so perfectly in my personal experience.
I think the thing with washing machine versus washer, bc it legit upset me, was that it sounds like Kara is coming from RAW (rules as written) and Ozza was coming from RAI (rules as intended), which is very different. Like, both still follow the rules, but one is with a direction that says that if that combination is used regularly, then it should count, but if it's not, then disqualify it. But it did sound like two not meshing interpretations of the point of the rules was being applied. I would've clarified at the beginning, bc I did get upset, being able to see both sides.
They never heard the name tuber for a root vegetable? Surprised they didn't select root for tube. :/
I've heard of it, but didn't think of it until I read your comment. Sometimes little bits of trivia just get forgotten.
Washing Machine is fine cause that is LITERALLY what the thing is called.
Kara's iron joke is "ferrous wheel" instead of Ferris wheel. Ferrous is a chemistry term meaning something contains iron (Fe).
Honestly, the more I watch Kara in these vids, the more I don't care for her attitude. She keeps acting like she knows what's best, but rarely have I seen her actually be "correct" about things. Most of the time, it just boils down to a difference of opinion on certain matters, like semantics, and that is not helpful towards reconciling conflicts. In fact, her strategy often leads to worsening conflicts than resolving them. Her competitive personality is the main culprit here.
Sure, having a competitive mindset is a good trait to have for many reasons. Mainly, it promotes growth of one's skills when paired against a worthy rival, like in sports teams, industry shares, republics vs. dictatorships, video game competitors, etc. However, being consistently competitive can also make one too vain and cause them to fail in understanding the reasons as to why someone may think differently. Kara consistently fails to consider her opponents stance and hence often derails the conversation. Ze jumping on the Kara train also does her no favors to mature as a person and just reaffirms in her mind "she's right" when, in reality, it doesn't matter if she's right or not.
In this instance, the group failed to establish the rules for compound terms beforehand, which led to an ultimately inconsequential argument rather than establishing some new agreed upon rules that would have resolved said conflict.
I am loving Ze's tube theory, confirmed, the world is actually a tube.
What an absolutely chaotic session
a washing machine is an object. it would be like saying that party float isnt allowed, school bus, etc etc. that would cross out several different simple nouns, idk how the grammar works there, if its considered a compound noun, but its designating one single thing, not several things.
Umm, I enjoyed the video, Ze.
It's a clue to me. Idk how else you can describe a mechanism that cleans clothes. And I'm not gonna Google or look for it in an actual book about the word.
You-Did-Great-Ze.
Thank-You-Ze.
Kara is so butthurt, I don’t get why she’s so worked up about that word. Gonna have to agree with ozza
.
Cheys laugh is everything lmao
TECHNICALLY, Kara is right in saying its not a noun because its two words combined, adjective and then noun, a machine that washes. This goes for other words too, a plane can be a "flying vehicle", a robot can be called "Artificial Intelligence", etc. But its always an adjective and then noun after it..
Wow-this-was-really‐something hyphens aside it truly was funny
@1:08:40(ish)...From context, sounds like Ozza was talking about the actress that played Sacagawea, not the historical person. According to Wikipedia, the actress was 29 when the 1st movie came out.
musketeers definitely had muskets. lol
31:33 damn, ozza really read y’all, huh
8:20
sorry but you're wrong. it's true that washing machine is not a proper noun, but there is no rule that says a clue has to be a proper noun so I have no idea why you're so hung up on that in the first place
as a person with two degrees in linguistics, I still find it incredibly hilarious how much english-speaking people want the language to be codified. like, I am over here, a speaker of a language with specific institutions protecting the "correct" form of language from pronunciation to vocabulary and sentence form, despairing over the fact that even though I am university educated in the language I still need to pay an editor to submit a paper, and there you are, arguing about whether washing machine can be hyphenated, how adorable.
Kara was far too upset about that entire situation.
Always is
The lesson from this is that everything is secretly a tube
Washing machine is not a proper noun, but neither is tube.
Dear lord this is more chaos than a Chill-Tilly video. Love it!
I don't know ... I don't think anything is going to top Marc Antony for a very long time.
@@CelticMutt I don't know....even though Mark Antony was chaos it was synergistic chaos. This is just outright chaos.
At least you can all laugh about it!!
If anyone didn’t understand Kara’s joke don’t worry I looked it up for you.
It’s not a Ferris wheel but a Ferrous wheel.
Ferrous is used as an adjective to describe something with iron in it.
Boy, these were some of the more heated Codenames’ sessions I’ve seen, but the rounds were still very enjoyable so I didn’t mind it really! I understand why Kara was annoyed by the washing machine clue since it is not a hyphenated word, and I do agree that rules can be bent if everyone agrees to that, but the passion and passive-aggressive responses that debate inspired were really something to watch, lol.
I can’t believe the old ‘Is a hose a tube?’ debate came back again in Codenames! I would say it’s a tube and that it possesses holes, but I can see why the subject causes debate. I was surprised nobody made the Root-Tube connection until near the end of the game since I thought that was a strong clue-if only Pjonk had been on Ze’s team perhaps things could have gone differently. I want to commend Skadj for doing his best with a tough board, and Chey, who was very traumatized by being forced to click things, lol.
The second game was a nice, refreshingly low-stakes round and I really loved the banter from it. ‘Vegas Baby’ is not a phrase I have heard before but I enjoyed the way Ze said it with that Elvis impression, lol. Leather definitely seemed like a clue for clothing so that was a good pick from Ze, and a good effort from the team all around.
It was nice that Steve made an appearance in the third game, I think he really brought the Blue team together! I also loved the return of the hyphens because Jack and Chey just can’t help themselves, lol. Manscap-ET might be the funniest clue I’ve seen in a long time and it was a shame that the Red Team could not win with that masterpiece, but Blue losing after getting Tit-Anic was a travesty, lol.
Thanks for another great video, Ze, and I hope there is another day of Codenames again soon!
Hyphens and 2 word compounds are legal under the same rule, so it's both or neither.
right before they started talking about the titanic in this video, I literally watched a video on Facebook with a group of guys talking about how the one guy didn't know Jack and Rose were not real.
Not gonna lie, hearing kara and ozza bicker about english language in the background was so entertaining.
Vegas is ONLY Palm trees. lmao
Washing machine is a compound common noun. Not a proper noun. Proper nouns identify unique people, places, or things and are typically capitalised. In this case, the term "washing" is used as either a pronoun or adjective as it is describing the type of machine that it is.
That said, washing machines are a valid clue because it is a specific kind of object. No need for hyphenation.
Also, Chey/Kara has such double standards and is such a rules lawyer within a private game for fun.
Washing machine is a common noun. Not a proper noun. Proper nouns identify unique people, places, or things and are typically capitalised. In this case, the term "washing" is used as either a pronoun or adjective as it is describing the type of machine that it is. But because there are so many different kinds of washing machines, and because there are now millions of different machines in existence, washing machines are their own thing, in other words their own noun.
That said, washing machine is a valid clue because it is a specific kind of object and is located within the dictionary. No need for hyphenation. It is a valid clue.
Also, Chey/Kara have such double standards and are such rules lawyers within a private game for fun. It's not a competition, right? Also, majority rules when deciding among friends, right? As I saw, it was 3-2 in favor of allowing the clue with 3 obstains/don't cares until it kept going long enough for two obstains/don't cares to vote in favor, making it 5-2-1 in favor-against-obstain.
I like how if you type: "can you use "washing machine" as a clue in codenames game" in google this video shows up XD
What is a proper noun?
Revised on October 10, 2022. A proper noun is a noun that serves as the name for a specific place, person, or thing. To distinguish them from common nouns, proper nouns are always capitalized in English.Aug 18, 2022
Washing machine is a thing
Always there with the great content!
Would you allow water bottle, baby bottle or soda bottle, or would you have them write bottle? Because the other word in that case becomes a descriptor. It gives more detail. The clues are supposed to be forced to be a bit ambiguous.
i haven't finished the video but i was guessing with my friend because i shared. kudos
I guess he should have just said...Washer. 🤷🏾♂️
It could've been mistaken as the metal things that comes with screwdrivers 😂
It's entirely possible that's a regional variation (like "pop" for soft drinks); I have only ever heard "washer" used to describe a washing machine in TV shows.
The word Washer belongs solely to a machine component utilized for fastening screws and bolts.
The word "washer" is simply people being lazy and referring to something by describing half of what it does - washes, but washes what?
@@LilyMaeBlossom I mean, dishwasher is a word. A full on word. If the spymaster says washer - they're not intending on "Dishwasher" unless the word "Dish" was up on the board, thus you must connect it to "Washing Machine" or a vague term of somebody who'd wash something (so a clue connecting to "Car" or "Clothes"). Washer would definitely work.
Washing MAchine could just be "Washer" and boom youre done.
Seems Kara needs to lookup what nouns and theories are haha. How else would you use a washing machine as a clue. Its a thing, its what it is called, there is no other way to say it.
You can say washer but that word has at least 3 meanings and can be misunderstood in this game. I agree though.
Hmmm yes the grammatical properties washing machine
Calling Washing Machine an illegal clue seems kinda sweaty imo
It's not a proper noun, but it's the name of a singular object. You can't call something a "washing" or a "machine" and convey the same meaning as "washing machine."
It would be the same concept as something like "license plate"
At least you guys still had fun, just a weird hill to die on imo
Here's another washer opinion: front-loaders are gentler on your clothes and use less water. They are far superior to top-loaders. (And if top-loading dryers exist, they need to be DESTROYED, wtf?)
So at the end of this video I learnt the word washer and started questioning if words even exist. What is language if not a tube for communication?
oof it's ok to have arguments/debates but the moment you call someone names between that.... now you're just being petty, but oh well it's all and good at the end i guess
Alright. You give us 10 minutes of English arguing, you get a comment explaining.
Washing machine is both a compound noun and a common noun.
White Russian is a proper noun and a compound noun.
Codenames' rules states _only_ a single word that does not have a hyphen, and a number. You also cannot use a word partially containing or contained within a visible word on the board. If you have a word you are not sure about the spymasters are to discuss in private with the opposing spymaster having final say.
This means no compound nouns, no proper nouns made of multiple words, no hypenated nouns. No making the clue "horse" if horseshoe is in play, nor making the clue "broken" if break is in play.
This means Kara's hill to die on that White Russian is a legal word is false. And using "washing machine" is also against the rules. Again, without a sidebar and approval from the opposing spymaster.
From the rules:
Proper Names
Proper names are always valid clues if they follow the other rules. George is a valid clue, but you might want to specify whether you mean George Washington or George W. Bush. Your group can agree to count proper names as oneword. This would also allow titles such as The Three Musketeers. Even if you don't allow multiword proper names, you might want to make an exception for place names like New York. Spymasters should not be allowed to make up names, not even names that turn out to be real. Sue Mee is not a valid clue for CHINA and LAWYER
@@Dardove That's part of the _optional_ Flexible Rules. The base rules only allow single words. Flexible Rules options give leeway for proper nouns, and/or compound nouns. It depends on what options the group agreed on.
@@sintanan469 Which is a rule they have always agreed upon so you saying she broke the rules is invalid.
@@Dardove I never said Kara broke the rules. I said by the _base_ rules neither "washing machine" nor "White Russian" are valid.
Considering they argued for 10 minutes over what words are valid makes me think they didn't agree ahead of time.
I was gonna comment on how great hashbrown is but Ze said we're only allowed to talk about the Washing Machine incident. It kinda seems like a way of clarification because just saying Washer can be confused for many things.
Ozza- those aren't the rules!
Alice and lead. Giant
Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!
Why is Step “obvious” for Washing Machine? I am so confused 😭
I know why, but I don't really want to say..
i know this an old video, but…
“washing machine” is categorized as a noun on the Cambridge english dictionary
I don't really think it's a big deal BUT my two cents is that it's illegal clue since it's a compound word that's not a pronoun. I feel like "washing" describes the type of machine. I would have used Washer and gotten the same picks. Most people will think the machine. Some people might also link the little thing that goes with a bolt. The only reason to not use Washer, would be if the black card or other team card had "Bolt" on it. Then I would just ask.
Was just watching an old one
I would've just left if I were Ozza because people who are THAT FUCKING STRICT about the rules, then jesus christ.
Kara was arguing against an Englishman with an English degree, like bruh, how do you expect to win that?
wow a minute ago! imma enjoy this episode now
I hate it when I find new streamers on you tube. I become a regular in their comments, they become very friendly with me in comments and then after a few months when I decide to check their stream, having a different stream name I am like a complete stranger to them. I am just being myself in their streams just as I am in their you tube comments but they seem to despise me. It happened only once and no it wasn't you ze
Honestly... I really didn't care about the argument that Kara raised... it was more of a 'oh here she goes again' thing and I skipped ahead to gameplay.
I disagree. With who? Who knows, but I disagree
A tornado is a funnel not a tube
Wasn't White Russia basically the name of Vladimir lenin`s political party in before it became the ussr?
woohoo
I'm commenting to raise engagement fot the washing machine
8:15 Washing Machine-slang term for woman. Honestly when I heard this clue, I looked for Chilled Chaos and woman as words cause I think they had a similar conversation
Dishwasher is a derogatory slang term for women. I don't think washing machine is as well, at least I've never heard it used in such a way, then again I don't go looking for people who use derogatory words against women too often lol.
@@phillip22722 There was another codenames where Chilled was talking about washing machines and it was a joke in there. Lighten up.
I am commenting respectfully.
tornado is a funnel
Kara is correct, but she's also toxic af
She is correct that it isn't a proper noun, but two word compound words are under the same rule that allows Hyphenated compound words.
Unless there is a separate ruleset they are using, I found that under the flexible rules found in the Czech games edition of the ruleset.
Is "The FitnessGram Pacer Test" a valid clue?
I disagree with Kara. I don't actually know if she's right or not, I just don't want her to be right about chat agreeing with her.
tube
As much as I dislike Kara, I have to agree with her. Ozza is completely wrong.
Ozza is wrong. One way to remember what is a common noun and a proper noun is that apple is common and Apple is proper. Simple as that!
English isn't even my first language and I know this.
Ozza should give his degree back.
Kara is always right.
Because she won’t let something go until people agree with her
Now they know who not to invite for the game.
Kara's right.