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Steve, if I were you I would bite the bullet and put a fresh engine in it that you machined yourself. Not dart or Bailey but you with all the improvements you have made along the way. It's your name on it and using the best stuff you have instead of the old beat up prototype will likely be better for your reputation and bottom line business. Win on Sunday sell on Monday. Put your best foot forward and keep on trucking. It's time.
@stevemorrisracing Could the copious amounts of brake clean/starter fluid that Cleetus uses have anything to do with the lifter issues? Just spitballing here. I don't know much about engines but that can't be good right?
Question!!!!! So if it's the clearance between trans and torque converter that causes the crank to walk back and forth and destroy the bearing on the SMX and the only thing Garrett changed was the switch to his old Big Block Chevy. Isn't he gonna have the same walking problem with the new engine? Seems like he should be warned so you don't have to rebuild the rebuilt big block?
if you think 1500+ hp engines last, i have news for you. they are built to hold up to abuse (for a few seconds), sure, but nothing is going to be indestructible, too many unknowns. from harmonics, forces involved to fuel chemistry... then there's the tuning, the effective power at altitude... that's why most factory cars above 700hp or 250HP/L have very tight maintenance schedules. why top fuels are taken apart every run.
Thrust bearing fail was caused by improper transmission mounting clearances. Needs thicker shims for bell housing...TC was bottomed. Love the channel and total transparency of all things. Few like that left in the world Steve...
highly unlikely that they stacked the pump when they installed the trans. this issue was almost certainly the result of the insane charge pressure that mullet was making
Your shop is so clean. Love it. Crazy how the SMX billet motor is such a beast, Cleetus had to step down in size because his 4 link couldnt put the power down, even with perfect prep. The SMX billet motors really needs to have the car built and designed around it to really use it to its fullest.
KSR, I DONT THINKE THAT STEVE THOUGHT LESS OF CLEETUS FOR PUSHING IT ......PUSHING IT REEEEEAAAALLL GOOODDD ..........,...PROVEN MOTIVES PROVEN MOTOR..... ENOUGH SAID
Steve the best thing I seen in this video was……. You turning the engine down to break head bolts loose. I have had people look at me crazy when I did it. Thanks I now know I am not the only one!!!!!
2 місяці тому+72
Because the thrust bearing is on the front snout If the converter was ballooning enough it might be flexing the crank and why it broke the main caps , The flexing would put more pressure downward or upward in the mid section of the crank and also allow the soft bearing thrust to get squeezed enough to break it . Just my thoughts Steve . Love ya work mate .
I don't know if that is what caused the main cap to break or not, I'm no engine builder. However, I do remember Steve talking about the main caps braking in these early production SMX's in his estimation having something to do with the sharp corners of the cap right where this one broke. That's why the current engines are radiused there now. If I could remember video I give a link, but it would have to be since Garret got BBC from Steve which was when I found out about this channel.
@@jeffreydurham5342 The bearing material is removed from the stock thrust bearing surface on SMX engines. There is a needle roller thrust bearing on the front of the crank. There is a video in Cletus’s shop where this is shown when Steve sands the bearing material off that big block Chevy thrust bearing.
We got away from 1.5mm & 2mm pins that were called upon to retain items which subjected the pins to side side load as they were prone to failure. The issue was using a harder material to afford a press fit and the downside was the pins being through hardened due to the small diameter. The fix was going to a proprietary long nose dog point set screw design and Loctite 603 called upon to retain the set screw once installed. Loved the doggo chow promo with Dewey. We lost our min-pin Gabby after 12 years back in 2021 and the painting you have on the dyno wall could pass for her sibling. Always enjoy the knowledge drops Steve, and that block has been through a lot over the years including that set of rods that crumbled. It's a testament to the thoughtful engineering you've put into the SMX and subsequently the SML. Looking forward to the gen 3 Hemi videos. All the best. Cheers!
Love the videos Steve as a fellow engine machinist in michigan I love that you show everything that goes wrong and actually explain it. You are a blessing to the industry. Would love to come see your shop sometime great as always.
Next time I'm over on the west side of the state I'll stop in. All the way over here in lapeer so it's a bit of a drive. We've always been over that way on weekends will have to spring and make the trip soon.
I haven’t watched Kevin’s channel in a good minute but it’s great to see he’s still building killer killer cars, he doesn’t always get justice and he’s one hell of a driver for not being a pro
I'm thrilled that there is someone else intelligent enough to remove the head studs before trying to lift the head off and drag all sorts of aluminum out of the holes. Same thing on installation, put the head on and then install the studs. Seen so many struggle with getting the head on with the studs in the block! Use your head man!
This is so PERFECT! I wanted to see this engine live again and now we can see how it runs when properly utilized. Your or Val's Camaro will be the perfect platform.
Back in the 90s my team had a problem with breaking thrust bearings in our BBC engines. We finally traced the problem to a ballooning of the torque converter from super hard launches. The converter would expand and push the crank forward.
On the lifter issue, I work with industrial manufacturing machines and would never use pins in a critical component like the lifter. Hardened set screws through the entire pin and loctite would be the way to go. That way they would be easily serviced and inspected/rebuilt. I would guess the bearing sticks from oil coking during shutdown. I imagine you guys use an oil circulator of some kind when the engine is shutdown to cool the oil components or recommend letting the engine idle for a minute before shutting down. Keep the videos coming, I can't wait to see how you repair the block!
I love you are ethical and make no bones about it. The engines you build are tough, they are the toughest in the industry, in my opinion. I love you guys, totally. I am blessed to meet you and Val I hope I have the time to be with you guys in the future!
My grandpa told a story of a friend that was on a trip to Mexico in the 70s. He broke a piston skirt in his small block Chevy powered waggoneer. They took the rocker arms and rods off that section on the crank, and left the pistons in the holes. They drove it that way 1000 miles home. They put new rod and piston in the broken hole and drove it for years after that.
I love how you have been collabing with all the channels we all love to watch. Kevin is an awesome car builder. I'm sure he appreciates having an awesome engine builder
Hey Steve I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did specially with Cleetus driving mullet that boy's hard on everything LOL but he did win World Cup and a few other races with that motor
Did he win it with this motor? I thought he won it with the big block. I thought I remember him saying he hasn’t finished an event since installing this so he’s going back to the BB. Might be mistaken
@@86FxBdyCpe The cars that CJRC is turning out are generally on a budget that is double or more of what Kevin works on, so it's a bit of apples and oranges there. One of the cool things about having as much social media coverage of the fab shops as there is now, is that they are more quickly adopting tips and tricks from each other and generally bringing the preparation level up. And, we get to see all that stuff and maybe incorporate some ideas into our own cars.
Hello, Steve It shocked me that it lasted so long, especially since Cleetus was driving Mullet. That lad is hard on everything, haha, but he did use the motor to win the World Cup and a few more races.
I love seeing the use of the extra piston coatings for mechanical wear in and protection. Saw that a lot in big diesel stuff to help with scuff and to help with carbon scoring.
A buddy of mine was flying bush pontoon planes in Northern Canada back in the late 80's and had a piston "gently" seize in the engine (no other damage). They lucky managed to land it in a small lake, but were then stranded with no way to contact anyone for help. They ended up removing the connecting rod and disabled the valves for that cylinder, then removed what weight they could from the plane, and flew it several hours home. I believe he said it was a Lycoming 6 cylinder engine and the plane had a fabric skin on it (which made it easy to repair up north).
Cleetus and the destroyers 🎉 A cross between classic rock and punk rockers. Cleetus has so much going on at one time I don't know how they have the time. I enjoy watching all the people you collaborate with Steve. Have a most wonderful day
I'm glad that my 2 favorite informative go-fast channels are building a bad mothertruckin' Camaro for even more butt kickin' on the track. Can't wait to see the test runs on that mean machine!
I'm surprised it didn't puke the nose off the block with that much pressure pushing the crank. I mean the front thrust did it's job but it pushed hard enough to bow that crank to the point it starts hitting the cam. Those lockups are no joke.
Hey Steve, A Small Terminology Correction For You Mate: Concave means "hollowed out or rounded inward" and is easily remembered because these surfaces "cave" in. The opposite is convex meaning "curved or rounded outward." Have An Awesome Day Mate!😎
Its not too often that someone changes an Engine because it has to much Horsepower, Mullet couldn't handle that SMX without doing major changes to the Chassis.
But look at what Mullet was built to do... Jet car, with an engine up front, so they could drive it around. KSR did adjust a number of the bars to make it better but it was never a high HP motor build.
@@wobblysaucethey redid most of the car, removed a bunch of it including shortening it so to say the car that exists today was built to be a jet car is a stretch. Yes at one point it was planned to be a jet car, but it’s as much a jet car at this point as it is a grocery getter.
So with the trust bearing broken off. That could be caused by the wrong clearance for transmission/ torque converter etc. Or even rear end/ driveshaft pushing a hard on transmission & goes all the way up to the engine.
You and Val are some of the good people. There are a few of us left. I got to see both of you at Edgewater and was very impressed that you guys are the true good people! I had more fun there than I have had at over 1000 road race and circle track events. You guys are the real deal! I parked with the race cars Sunday and never locked my truck. There was tools a firearm and a laptop in the seat of my truck. I never felt compelled to lock my truck, I have found my people!
I agree with you have said, but stop short of leaving a firearm unlocked. I kid could get hold of it. Hope it was at the very least not showing. Jesus.
I'm not trying to be one of those guys but calling yourself a good person means nothing. Terrible people call themselves good people all the time. Actions prove that Steve and crew are good people but an internet comment about yourself doesn't say anything. And why are you parking in the pits if you didn't have a racecar or were with one of the cars? Just curious
And what the dude above me said! Don't leave a firearm unlocked. Why would you not have it on you? It does no good in the car. Mentioning yourself parking with race cars, leaving valuable items including a gun in your car especially unlocked makes me doubt your whole good person thing even more. Do you also open carry?
Kevin is one of the most detailed builders i have ever seen i know people with OCD and they dont have anything on him lol such a great guy i been watching him since he started on mullet a long time ago
I think Steve is the most wholesome builder in the business. I know cleet is a large channel but Steve going to fix it then buying it. Plus I see Cletus has a new SMX in mullet.
Yes Cleet is running his OG SM big block that Mullet had before the SMX that he went 6.39 I think it was with if I remember correctly..Mullet is definitely still fast just not " crazy crazy fast " lol should be a great world cup tbh a lot of great builds goin to be there !
Those caps broke from cumilative fatigue. That engine has seen alot of abuse and went through a mass exodus of rods as well. I agree with the stress risers as well.
I'm thinking on the same line as you , every time I'v seen a failure like this it was from something pushing on the crank . Weather is installed wrong are a parts failure from the crank back.
Won't be a balloon effect on the converter as he was running a billet lockup converter. It will more be along the line of the weight of the car was too high and the converter required for the application made too much pressure. And that was also the same reason he changed back to the cast big block engine. He had too much wear on the SMX and did not want to destroy it completely.
I think the thrust issue may be caused by heat, because if I recall, you set the static thrust to 0.007". When the block grows with heat, the nose end will grow away from the rear main, so that 0.007" is more like 0.025" or more, which makes the rear thrust ring contact the original thrust washer face. If the static thrust clearance 'cold' was set to just 0.001/0.0015", you would cut down the chances of contact by 0.006" straight away. Obviously the ideal place for a thrust is at the rear main, that way heat doesn't affect the clearance much at all. Try measuring the block and then remeasuring at 200 degrees or so to check the growth. I also remember you checking the clearance hot one time and it was much greater than the cold setting, then you got the block back and checked it cold only to find the static thrust had returned to 0.007". Certainly worth looking into. cheers, Mike
Ran on 4 cyls and forgot to shut the fuel off to them. 2 passes without oil pressure. This man has single handedly designed and built a bad muthatrucker virtually indestructable engine. Even this cleet fellow couldnt do it in😂.
This Cleet fellow? Is an ignorant and geriatric way to describe a front runner in social media covered racing world. Having followed the project from the beginning this does feel like a chance for redemption after some disappointing results.
Undoubtedly you haven't watched the past videos of Steve absolutely destroying this same engine. Was like a tomahawk missile blew up inside of it. He welded the block and heads back up and remachined everything before Cleetus bought it. Long story short, no mechanical combustion engine is indestructible. Not even Steve's 😂
Something with the transmission has to be pushing the crank forward. That type of bronze bushing in the lifter would need some type of pre-oiler to have any chance of surviving. Thrust washer on the front of the crank is fundamentally wrong. (IMO) You can't compress those wobbly pieces of metal and think they won't make some strange vibrations.. BUT, what do I know? Keep up the good content! I love how you share your learning process with us! Most people out there would be too afraid to show how the real learning pains are!
I had a Mustang with an automatic engine that had the thrust bearing wear out completely, and ruin the crankshaft. Cause ended up being the transmission over pressurized causing the torque converter to balloon and put pressure forward on the crank and take out the thrust bearing and crankshaft. Fixed it with a new crankshaft and bearings and had the transmission rebuilt. The torque converter had over 200 thousandth end play, you could visually see how much it was ballooned.
A 6061 block will expand 0.030 inches when heated from 80F to 200 F. The steel crank will expand 0.010, so you need more than 0.020 in. rear thrust clearance to allow the roller thrust bearing to take the load.
Steve cpl things:: You shaved that bearing down a bunch at cleets the one that is broken now !! Remember? Also I thought the charge pressure of converter shoves the crank forward and that’s the point of a thrust bearing??? Lastly I thought you do the main caps different now with out them stress fracture points. You showed in a previous video the old caps the ones you have that are broken and your new revised caps with everything with nice radius’s an smooth no sharp angles no sharp points ect ect.
It’s good to have had Cleetus run the SMXif it will break he’s the one who will find the weak point to help with developing a better part for the future engines hope to see Mullet with a new upgraded SMX engine. Keep up the good work.
I watch every one of Cletus videos since the very beginning when he installed the SMX into mullet and I definitely remember a video where they started the SMX without any oil in it in the engine and they either talk to Steve or called Steve and told him what they did he said he didn’t know if it would hurt it or not
It wasnt a dry engine, just forgot to fill it back up. Steve has also run a few passes with no oil pressure, didn't notice the oil pump fail and didn't find any wear that was out of the ordinary.
@@wingracer1614 I think it was the recessed bore that was the issue. It doesnt matter how well the spot face is radised the thin web is a fault area. 4000 ft/lb of torque finds a way.
G'day Steve, you need to research Force Moments. These are naturaly occuring moments in any rotating shaft, in a crank shaft the resulant moment is axial and is proportional to the torque which is perpendicular to the crank. You can use your right hand, wrap your fingers around the crank in the direction of rotation and your thumb will point in the direction of thrust, you know have the normal direction of thrust. Any force moment in the opposite direction is abnormal and induced by failure or incorect assembly etc. On the back of the next vid in this series the obviously high force from the pistons perpendicular to the crank shaft has without doubt caused a high axial moment, obviously the trans input and output shafts also have a normal direction of thrust depending on direction of rotation.👍🍻
Well, he DID start it up a couple different times with ZERO oil in the engine. The thrust issue is probably the original problem that doesn't appear to have been addressed. The converter charge pressure on transbrake.
Hi. Aluminum (block)expends more with the heat in lenght then steel (krank). U have two trust bearins. It allso puts the krank on a stress and brakes the main caps. All best.
@@LeoTaurSagthat’s not an excuse bud one has water jackets and the other doesn’t. Comparing a drag n drive to a pure drag engine with no water jackets is crazy. Apples to oranges
Great information! I would like your shirt as I did your video if the flag was horizontal. Vertically it places the stars in the top right. Stars are supposed to be in the top left.
I love Cleet, he's hard on everything. I have actually followed Kevin since he started on Mullet. Still do every video just like I do Steve here. Both people build amazing machines. I will say that I am a bit disappointed that a SML isnt going in the new Camaro that Kevin is finishing for Steve. I thought/think it would be a great place to show off what the new SML can do. I will say that financially its probably cheaper to use the engine from Cleet since it's already used amd sitting there needing a home again. Can't go back in the Wagon and it would turn Kyle's Rustang inside out
I remember something about high converter pressure pushing the crankshaft forward, or something like that. He mentioned that they needed to fix it, but ran it for a while like that.
That was back when they first put the SMX in Mullet, Steve flew down there with different bearings to adjust clearances cause they didn’t have great oil pressure. Ended up adjusting the thrust bearing clearance as well. Think they decided it was probably the very high charge pressure in the transmission. Seems like that problem was still around judging by that thrust bearing being broken
I recall that as well. BUT, this motor has that huge roller thrust bearing on the front of the block to keep the crank from walking forward. In theory, the thrust surfaces on the rear main bearing shouldn't ever be what's taking that thrust force. Clearly it DID, but why is what's got Steve scratching his head. I guess we'll all find out together.
Very cool episode, it's nice to finally locate the source of the metal debris you were seeing. And i can certainly see the issue being resolved with a larger pin holding the axle in place. Diagnostics! 👍
Ran on 4 cyls and forgot to shut the fuel off to them. Without oil pressure, two passes. This man has single handedly designed and built a bad muthatrucker virtually indestructable engine. Even this cleet fellow couldnt do it in.
Cleetus The Parts Tester.... Hasn't had an engine yet that hasn't blown up or had a part fail. The Proline will be no different. IF IT MOVES, IT WILL BREAK..."Steve Morris" Legend
Proline at the very least gets rods after 25 passes. Do things break on them? Yes. Will Cleet be the one to figure it out? Hell yeah brother. But those Hemis are designed to be worked on and rebuilt quickly. Plus the tuners and other people that he's brought in to help with Eagles program means that it has a better chance of lasting. Same with using an engine Pete built in Leroy. They used to go through TSP 427s but what he's running now has been going quicker and faster but also hasn't been tearing shit up.
Converter ballooning and lock up rattle. I've seen them pins break before on Morel lifters. Every time it was during engine rattle. Either lockup, detonation, or wheel chatter.
Ya I thought about commenting on Cleets lack of maintenance especially between rounds but figured I would catch heat from his fan base so I didn't. We will see how the new pro line does.
Steve your awesome for bringing the whole idea around this to life with suck a big engine and sending it to REP you on all these big youtube channels- from when the rods shattered to Cleet giving you some more work to do on it the story is so cool man and proves you know your shi 👍
@@tomcoon9038no that’s either carelessness or just down right not giving a fuck if shit breaks. It wasn’t that long ago cleetus went to a race knowing the trans was hurt. And just didn’t care to fix it.
From watching precision transmission. Richard talks about turbo 400 if not setup correctly with thrust tolerance on the stack up and boost/line pressure that it would push on a crank so hard it would wipe out a crank in one run.
I would definitely say that it has something to do with the lock up transmission. Steve and Tom are not using that style transmission and not having this sort of failure. There is no way a billet converter is ballooning but I think there is some kind of hydraulic force occurring between the transmission pump and converter during lock up pushing the crankshaft forward. Like a hydraulic ram pushing against the crankshaft.
I would expect he would want to go after Bret LaSala and his new Snot Rocket. He’s the one to beat in drag and drive currently. Really just to win drag and drive against whoever else is winning at the time.
@@pieflies first of all. excuse my bad english and greetings from germany. second.... the snot rocket V3 is running clean mid sixes in testing.... really an nice competition at this drag`n`drives...
Sweet I've been waiting to see this. This well make my decision on uf I need one of these engines or not. I no he is great to his name but this just proves it. Great 👍 job
@KevinHuff23 you think a broken main bearing tang is from someone taking care of there engine...it's not that's from neglected maintenance and to much pressure from the trans
Do you even English? And it'll be tore down every 25-28 passes just like every other proline hemi. You need to do a little research before trying to bash someone online
Proof that there are still people that can break an anvil with a rubber hammer. This is what happens when you give Johnny Knoxville an unlimited budget. Let him go destroy someone else's stuff.
Definitely interesting. There is an issue with something causing crank walk. That's never been an issue with that engine or any of your other engines. Diagnosing that would be a good video.
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Steve, if I were you I would bite the bullet and put a fresh engine in it that you machined yourself. Not dart or Bailey but you with all the improvements you have made along the way. It's your name on it and using the best stuff you have instead of the old beat up prototype will likely be better for your reputation and bottom line business. Win on Sunday sell on Monday. Put your best foot forward and keep on trucking. It's time.
Damn! It's already Wednesday for me, I missed out.😢🤔🇦🇺
High acceleration and hard breaking makes the crankshaft go backwards and forwards.
@stevemorrisracing Could the copious amounts of brake clean/starter fluid that Cleetus uses have anything to do with the lifter issues? Just spitballing here. I don't know much about engines but that can't be good right?
Question!!!!! So if it's the clearance between trans and torque converter that causes the crank to walk back and forth and destroy the bearing on the SMX and the only thing Garrett changed was the switch to his old Big Block Chevy. Isn't he gonna have the same walking problem with the new engine? Seems like he should be warned so you don't have to rebuild the rebuilt big block?
It’s admirable that you stand by your SMX to the extent that you show wear/flukes/failures.
Impressive!
Not when that's most of what I see on his channel it's not!
if you think 1500+ hp engines last, i have news for you. they are built to hold up to abuse (for a few seconds), sure, but nothing is going to be indestructible, too many unknowns.
from harmonics, forces involved to fuel chemistry... then there's the tuning, the effective power at altitude...
that's why most factory cars above 700hp or 250HP/L have very tight maintenance schedules.
why top fuels are taken apart every run.
Cleetus and his world famous 2 step check be killing thrust bearings since 2021.
The only time he didnt do it he got up to the line and it wasnt working, or took too long and needed a tune change.
Thrust bearing fail was caused by improper transmission mounting clearances. Needs thicker shims for bell housing...TC was bottomed. Love the channel and total transparency of all things. Few like that left in the world Steve...
loll cap evinrude must need evinrude shims
What about when he got that oil diaper stuff lodged in the flywheel?
highly unlikely that they stacked the pump when they installed the trans. this issue was almost certainly the result of the insane charge pressure that mullet was making
Didn't Cleetus have trouble with the pulleys once and Ty built some type of bracket? Pressure pushing against the back thrust bearing?
@@Ray56z i think the big fuel pump pulley was the issue that caused the bracket, i think it snapped at one point
Your shop is so clean. Love it.
Crazy how the SMX billet motor is such a beast, Cleetus had to step down in size because his 4 link couldnt put the power down, even with perfect prep. The SMX billet motors really needs to have the car built and designed around it to really use it to its fullest.
Leave nothing to chance ;)
Hence the Jesus rock playing ?
@ksr ....mullet =awesome soccer mom=sweet vals camaro=beautiful...your attention to detail is your super power bro!
Hell yeah brother
@gregorholmes1837 the correct term for that is Acid Rock, closest to Santana at Woodstock. Hehe
KSR, I DONT THINKE THAT STEVE THOUGHT LESS OF CLEETUS FOR PUSHING IT ......PUSHING IT REEEEEAAAALLL GOOODDD ..........,...PROVEN MOTIVES PROVEN MOTOR..... ENOUGH SAID
Loved seeing Cleeter testing with Mullet and the OG BBC this week! The SMX is the art, but Steve is the artist here. Killer teardown!
Steve the best thing I seen in this video was……. You turning the engine down to break head bolts loose. I have had people look at me crazy when I did it. Thanks I now know I am not the only one!!!!!
Because the thrust bearing is on the front snout If the converter was ballooning enough it might be flexing the crank and why it broke the main caps , The flexing would put more pressure downward or upward in the mid section of the crank and also allow the soft bearing thrust to get squeezed enough to break it . Just my thoughts Steve . Love ya work mate .
I don't know if that is what caused the main cap to break or not, I'm no engine builder. However, I do remember Steve talking about the main caps braking in these early production SMX's in his estimation having something to do with the sharp corners of the cap right where this one broke. That's why the current engines are radiused there now. If I could remember video I give a link, but it would have to be since Garret got BBC from Steve which was when I found out about this channel.
You could be on the money there , definitely converter related
Thrust on the front snout? It's obvious to the most casual observer the thrust bearing is on the rear main like all big block chevys.
@@jeffreydurham5342
The bearing material is removed from the stock thrust bearing surface on SMX engines. There is a needle roller thrust bearing on the front of the crank.
There is a video in Cletus’s shop where this is shown when Steve sands the bearing material off that big block Chevy thrust bearing.
He definitely was not ballooning a billet converter .😂
We got away from 1.5mm & 2mm pins that were called upon to retain items which subjected the pins to side side load as they were prone to failure. The issue was using a harder material to afford a press fit and the downside was the pins being through hardened due to the small diameter. The fix was going to a proprietary long nose dog point set screw design and Loctite 603 called upon to retain the set screw once installed.
Loved the doggo chow promo with Dewey. We lost our min-pin Gabby after 12 years back in 2021 and the painting you have on the dyno wall could pass for her sibling. Always enjoy the knowledge drops Steve, and that block has been through a lot over the years including that set of rods that crumbled. It's a testament to the thoughtful engineering you've put into the SMX and subsequently the SML.
Looking forward to the gen 3 Hemi videos.
All the best. Cheers!
Love the videos Steve as a fellow engine machinist in michigan I love that you show everything that goes wrong and actually explain it. You are a blessing to the industry. Would love to come see your shop sometime great as always.
Come over anytime
Next time I'm over on the west side of the state I'll stop in. All the way over here in lapeer so it's a bit of a drive. We've always been over that way on weekends will have to spring and make the trip soon.
I'm a machinists also , work 5 building's down from the RevX oil additive building in GR.
I haven’t watched Kevin’s channel in a good minute but it’s great to see he’s still building killer killer cars, he doesn’t always get justice and he’s one hell of a driver for not being a pro
These High Horsepower V8s are impressive and I like it that Steve is showing the learning curve on building these monsters.
I'm thrilled that there is someone else intelligent enough to remove the head studs before trying to lift the head off and drag all sorts of aluminum out of the holes. Same thing on installation, put the head on and then install the studs. Seen so many struggle with getting the head on with the studs in the block! Use your head man!
Hadn’t really thought of that. I usually do 4 on each side. Makes installing the HG easier too. I might try your way.
This is so PERFECT! I wanted to see this engine live again and now we can see how it runs when properly utilized. Your or Val's Camaro will be the perfect platform.
Back in the 90s my team had a problem with breaking thrust bearings in our BBC engines. We finally traced the problem to a ballooning of the torque converter from super hard launches. The converter would expand and push the crank forward.
That was probably a mild steel converter case.
On the lifter issue, I work with industrial manufacturing machines and would never use pins in a critical component like the lifter. Hardened set screws through the entire pin and loctite would be the way to go. That way they would be easily serviced and inspected/rebuilt. I would guess the bearing sticks from oil coking during shutdown. I imagine you guys use an oil circulator of some kind when the engine is shutdown to cool the oil components or recommend letting the engine idle for a minute before shutting down. Keep the videos coming, I can't wait to see how you repair the block!
I love you are ethical and make no bones about it. The engines you build are tough, they are the toughest in the industry, in my opinion. I love you guys, totally. I am blessed to meet you and Val I hope I have the time to be with you guys in the future!
My grandpa told a story of a friend that was on a trip to Mexico in the 70s. He broke a piston skirt in his small block Chevy powered waggoneer. They took the rocker arms and rods off that section on the crank, and left the pistons in the holes. They drove it that way 1000 miles home. They put new rod and piston in the broken hole and drove it for years after that.
Meanwhile… Dewey is in the corner eating a dirty shop towel lol
I love how you have been collabing with all the channels we all love to watch. Kevin is an awesome car builder. I'm sure he appreciates having an awesome engine builder
WOW, all that damage and the crank was not wiped out. Impressive.
Hey Steve I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did specially with Cleetus driving mullet that boy's hard on everything LOL but he did win World Cup and a few other races with that motor
Did he win it with this motor? I thought he won it with the big block. I thought I remember him saying he hasn’t finished an event since installing this so he’s going back to the BB. Might be mistaken
Always a treat to see someone who is a real problem solver and their process to resolution. Thanks Steve great channel and crew you got there 👍👍
Kevin from KSR is always top-notch. That guy thinks through problems and finds solutions, not excuses
I like Kevin. Good guy for sure
He has nothing on CJRC!
@@86FxBdyCpe The cars that CJRC is turning out are generally on a budget that is double or more of what Kevin works on, so it's a bit of apples and oranges there. One of the cool things about having as much social media coverage of the fab shops as there is now, is that they are more quickly adopting tips and tricks from each other and generally bringing the preparation level up. And, we get to see all that stuff and maybe incorporate some ideas into our own cars.
@@86FxBdyCpe true but Mullet did all the heavy lifting for sure. Everybody helped out.
Its still doing 6.83 out of the box
Hello, Steve It shocked me that it lasted so long, especially since Cleetus was driving Mullet. That lad is hard on everything, haha, but he did use the motor to win the World Cup and a few more races.
I'm watching this before Cleetus eagle video. Let's get the views up on this channel!
🤟🤟
I always watch Steve first then Pete real good at doing stuff next.👍
I actually like this channel better, more my stuff I did... cept I did carbureted :P Still have my flame thrower holley's
Steve Morris is a fukcin legend🤘😎
FDA, stop doing evil things!
I love seeing the use of the extra piston coatings for mechanical wear in and protection. Saw that a lot in big diesel stuff to help with scuff and to help with carbon scoring.
BRUTHERRRRRRR, That motor was Built in America and so Was Cleetus. ( if you know you know)
A buddy of mine was flying bush pontoon planes in Northern Canada back in the late 80's and had a piston "gently" seize in the engine (no other damage).
They lucky managed to land it in a small lake, but were then stranded with no way to contact anyone for help.
They ended up removing the connecting rod and disabled the valves for that cylinder, then removed what weight they could from the plane, and flew it several hours home.
I believe he said it was a Lycoming 6 cylinder engine and the plane had a fabric skin on it (which made it easy to repair up north).
Cleet did a 7 second pass with 7 cylinders plus drove it from the track to Motion Race works on 7 LOL!
I absolutely love watching all your videos I love the wealth of knowledge and information and just the transparency of your videos as well
Cleetus and the destroyers 🎉 A cross between classic rock and punk rockers. Cleetus has so much going on at one time I don't know how they have the time. I enjoy watching all the people you collaborate with Steve. Have a most wonderful day
same as Bailey to be honest
STEVE MORRIS ROCKS THE WORLD !!!!!................ LET THE GOOD TIMES ROLL !!!............................LIVE WELL BE WELL S.M.
Five years of beating on an engine! I think it held up well, and going to fix it and slap it in another car. A testament to how well you build engines
And it’s not done yet!
I'm glad that my 2 favorite informative go-fast channels are building a bad mothertruckin' Camaro for even more butt kickin' on the track. Can't wait to see the test runs on that mean machine!
I'm surprised it didn't puke the nose off the block with that much pressure pushing the crank. I mean the front thrust did it's job but it pushed hard enough to bow that crank to the point it starts hitting the cam. Those lockups are no joke.
Hey Steve, A Small Terminology Correction For You Mate: Concave means "hollowed out or rounded inward" and is easily remembered because these surfaces "cave" in. The opposite is convex meaning "curved or rounded outward." Have An Awesome Day Mate!😎
Its not too often that someone changes an Engine because it has to much Horsepower, Mullet couldn't handle that SMX without doing major changes to the Chassis.
But look at what Mullet was built to do... Jet car, with an engine up front, so they could drive it around. KSR did adjust a number of the bars to make it better but it was never a high HP motor build.
@@wobblysauce yeah everyone forgets the jet engine era. before that chick died and everyone told cleet this is nuts.
It was nuts even before they picked up the Elco, but look at it this way, that project led to several people we know now.
@wobblysauce yea exactly was setup for jet engine not a SMX . It's that simple
@@wobblysaucethey redid most of the car, removed a bunch of it including shortening it so to say the car that exists today was built to be a jet car is a stretch. Yes at one point it was planned to be a jet car, but it’s as much a jet car at this point as it is a grocery getter.
So with the trust bearing broken off. That could be caused by the wrong clearance for transmission/ torque converter etc.
Or even rear end/ driveshaft pushing a hard on transmission & goes all the way up to the engine.
I love horsepower and I love dogs! Excellent videos.
Dewey is a beautiful dog, that is for sure!! Love his coat!
If I remember right cleetus didn't have the converter spaced right. Not enough movement could have taken out the thrust bearing.
Always interesting! As Always, May God Bless you and yours! 😇
You and Val are some of the good people. There are a few of us left. I got to see both of you at Edgewater and was very impressed that you guys are the true good people! I had more fun there than I have had at over 1000 road race and circle track events. You guys are the real deal! I parked with the race cars Sunday and never locked my truck. There was tools a firearm and a laptop in the seat of my truck. I never felt compelled to lock my truck, I have found my people!
"Us"
I agree with you have said, but stop short of leaving a firearm unlocked. I kid could get hold of it. Hope it was at the very least not showing. Jesus.
I'm not trying to be one of those guys but calling yourself a good person means nothing. Terrible people call themselves good people all the time. Actions prove that Steve and crew are good people but an internet comment about yourself doesn't say anything. And why are you parking in the pits if you didn't have a racecar or were with one of the cars? Just curious
And what the dude above me said! Don't leave a firearm unlocked. Why would you not have it on you? It does no good in the car. Mentioning yourself parking with race cars, leaving valuable items including a gun in your car especially unlocked makes me doubt your whole good person thing even more. Do you also open carry?
Kevin is one of the most detailed builders i have ever seen i know people with OCD and they dont have anything on him lol such a great guy i been watching him since he started on mullet a long time ago
Thanks again for sharing Steve!
Heck yeah!! Round three of Merch just ordered!! lol 😂
I know it sounds simple. But the Motion Raceworks Breathers are awesome. No welding!
I think Steve is the most wholesome builder in the business. I know cleet is a large channel but Steve going to fix it then buying it. Plus I see Cletus has a new SMX in mullet.
Mullet does not have an SMX in it. It’s running it’s old big block in it
The SNOUT IS FROM THE SMX FROM STEVE......THE ORIGINAL RECORD BREAKING CHEVY BIG BLOCK IS GOING BACK DOWN THE TRACK FOR WORLD CUP.....
It's not a SMX It's just a conventional SM big Block Chevy
Yes Cleet is running his OG SM big block that Mullet had before the SMX that he went 6.39 I think it was with if I remember correctly..Mullet is definitely still fast just not " crazy crazy fast " lol should be a great world cup tbh a lot of great builds goin to be there !
Those caps broke from cumilative fatigue. That engine has seen alot of abuse and went through a mass exodus of rods as well. I agree with the stress risers as well.
Cletus’s torque converter was probably ballooning pushing on crank
I'm thinking on the same line as you , every time I'v seen a failure like this it was from something pushing on the crank . Weather is installed wrong are a parts failure from the crank back.
My first thought.
Yes sir I almost guarantee it
Won't be a balloon effect on the converter as he was running a billet lockup converter.
It will more be along the line of the weight of the car was too high and the converter required for the application made too much pressure. And that was also the same reason he changed back to the cast big block engine. He had too much wear on the SMX and did not want to destroy it completely.
@@88TitanCW not true billet torque converter will ballon if it builds to much pressure and isn’t bypassing enough
I think the thrust issue may be caused by heat, because if I recall, you set the static thrust to 0.007". When the block grows with heat, the nose end will grow away from the rear main, so that 0.007" is more like 0.025" or more, which makes the rear thrust ring contact the original thrust washer face.
If the static thrust clearance 'cold' was set to just 0.001/0.0015", you would cut down the chances of contact by 0.006" straight away.
Obviously the ideal place for a thrust is at the rear main, that way heat doesn't affect the clearance much at all. Try measuring the block and then remeasuring at 200 degrees or so to check the growth.
I also remember you checking the clearance hot one time and it was much greater than the cold setting, then you got the block back and checked it cold only to find the static thrust had returned to 0.007".
Certainly worth looking into.
cheers, Mike
Ran on 4 cyls and forgot to shut the fuel off to them. 2 passes without oil pressure. This man has single handedly designed and built a bad muthatrucker virtually indestructable engine. Even this cleet fellow couldnt do it in😂.
This Cleet fellow? Is an ignorant and geriatric way to describe a front runner in social media covered racing world. Having followed the project from the beginning this does feel like a chance for redemption after some disappointing results.
Undoubtedly you haven't watched the past videos of Steve absolutely destroying this same engine. Was like a tomahawk missile blew up inside of it. He welded the block and heads back up and remachined everything before Cleetus bought it. Long story short, no mechanical combustion engine is indestructible. Not even Steve's 😂
Yeah i seen that video too. All 8 connecting rods having a material failure and the engine is still here is my point.
@@tribalism_is_toxic1989ease up dude. That make you feel better?
Something with the transmission has to be pushing the crank forward. That type of bronze bushing in the lifter would need some type of pre-oiler to have any chance of surviving. Thrust washer on the front of the crank is fundamentally wrong. (IMO) You can't compress those wobbly pieces of metal and think they won't make some strange vibrations.. BUT, what do I know? Keep up the good content! I love how you share your learning process with us! Most people out there would be too afraid to show how the real learning pains are!
I had a Mustang with an automatic engine that had the thrust bearing wear out completely, and ruin the crankshaft. Cause ended up being the transmission over pressurized causing the torque converter to balloon and put pressure forward on the crank and take out the thrust bearing and crankshaft. Fixed it with a new crankshaft and bearings and had the transmission rebuilt. The torque converter had over 200 thousandth end play, you could visually see how much it was ballooned.
This collab was perfect!
A 6061 block will expand 0.030 inches when heated from 80F to 200 F. The steel crank will expand 0.010, so you need more than 0.020 in. rear thrust clearance to allow the roller thrust bearing to take the load.
Steve cpl things:: You shaved that bearing down a bunch at cleets the one that is broken now !! Remember?
Also I thought the charge pressure of converter shoves the crank forward and that’s the point of a thrust bearing???
Lastly I thought you do the main caps different now with out them stress fracture points. You showed in a previous video the old caps the ones you have that are broken and your new revised caps with everything with nice radius’s an smooth no sharp angles no sharp points ect ect.
Was that the video when he went to Sam's shop to file them ?
It’s good to have had Cleetus run the SMXif it will break he’s the one who will find the weak point to help with developing a better part for the future engines hope to see Mullet with a new upgraded SMX engine. Keep up the good work.
I watch every one of Cletus videos since the very beginning when he installed the SMX into mullet and I definitely remember a video where they started the SMX without any oil in it in the engine and they either talk to Steve or called Steve and told him what they did he said he didn’t know if it would hurt it or not
That was bad but has nothing to do with broken main caps.
It wasnt a dry engine, just forgot to fill it back up.
Steve has also run a few passes with no oil pressure, didn't notice the oil pump fail and didn't find any wear that was out of the ordinary.
@@wingracer1614 I think it was the recessed bore that was the issue. It doesnt matter how well the spot face is radised the thin web is a fault area. 4000 ft/lb of torque finds a way.
G'day Steve, you need to research Force Moments. These are naturaly occuring moments in any rotating shaft, in a crank shaft the resulant moment is axial and is proportional to the torque which is perpendicular to the crank. You can use your right hand, wrap your fingers around the crank in the direction of rotation and your thumb will point in the direction of thrust, you know have the normal direction of thrust. Any force moment in the opposite direction is abnormal and induced by failure or incorect assembly etc. On the back of the next vid in this series the obviously high force from the pistons perpendicular to the crank shaft has without doubt caused a high axial moment, obviously the trans input and output shafts also have a normal direction of thrust depending on direction of rotation.👍🍻
Well, he DID start it up a couple different times with ZERO oil in the engine. The thrust issue is probably the original problem that doesn't appear to have been addressed. The converter charge pressure on transbrake.
Hi. Aluminum (block)expends more with the heat in lenght then steel (krank). U have two trust bearins. It allso puts the krank on a stress and brakes the main caps. All best.
Steve said if Cleetus doesn't want a SMX in his new Camaro, I guess I'll have to build a Camaro myself
and that proline will do more than the smx, 4500 on smx 5500 hp plus on a proline.
@@JD-tz8bp SMX is built for drag and drive the proline isn't
@@canz8tercustumz always excuses lol 😂
@@LeoTaurSagthat’s not an excuse bud one has water jackets and the other doesn’t. Comparing a drag n drive to a pure drag engine with no water jackets is crazy. Apples to oranges
Great information! I would like your shirt as I did your video if the flag was horizontal. Vertically it places the stars in the top right. Stars are supposed to be in the top left.
That should be number 8 cylinder on the passenger side of the engine,number seven is on the driver's side, unless I am mistaken.
I love the tech stuff. Please keep doing it. Love your apparel designs. They run small just a note to buyers
Cletus just tears (stuff) up.... Blows up EVERYTHING he touches!
I love Cleet, he's hard on everything. I have actually followed Kevin since he started on Mullet. Still do every video just like I do Steve here. Both people build amazing machines. I will say that I am a bit disappointed that a SML isnt going in the new Camaro that Kevin is finishing for Steve. I thought/think it would be a great place to show off what the new SML can do. I will say that financially its probably cheaper to use the engine from Cleet since it's already used amd sitting there needing a home again. Can't go back in the Wagon and it would turn Kyle's Rustang inside out
I remember something about high converter pressure pushing the crankshaft forward, or something like that. He mentioned that they needed to fix it, but ran it for a while like that.
I remembered that also. Thinking that might have been when it was still power glide with an overdrive before the turbo 400 with lockup went in.
That was back when they first put the SMX in Mullet, Steve flew down there with different bearings to adjust clearances cause they didn’t have great oil pressure. Ended up adjusting the thrust bearing clearance as well. Think they decided it was probably the very high charge pressure in the transmission. Seems like that problem was still around judging by that thrust bearing being broken
@@jordanmpaul They haven't run the powerglide since it was still on a Texas Speed LS
They also had the gear slip, which was not known for a while, but that was more about high rpm.
I recall that as well. BUT, this motor has that huge roller thrust bearing on the front of the block to keep the crank from walking forward. In theory, the thrust surfaces on the rear main bearing shouldn't ever be what's taking that thrust force. Clearly it DID, but why is what's got Steve scratching his head. I guess we'll all find out together.
Product tested revisions to follow very good insight into what goes into making it work
Did Garret started that engine with no oil pressure ? And could his lock up torque converter trash the thrust bearing ?
Yeah but Steve has also ran a few passes without the oil pump and shown no signs of wear on the bearings
Very cool episode, it's nice to finally locate the source of the metal debris you were seeing. And i can certainly see the issue being resolved with a larger pin holding the axle in place. Diagnostics! 👍
Ran on 4 cyls and forgot to shut the fuel off to them. Without oil pressure, two passes. This man has single handedly designed and built a bad muthatrucker virtually indestructable engine. Even this cleet fellow couldnt do it in.
Cleetus The Parts Tester....
Hasn't had an engine yet that hasn't blown up or had a part fail.
The Proline will be no different.
IF IT MOVES, IT WILL BREAK..."Steve Morris" Legend
Proline at the very least gets rods after 25 passes. Do things break on them? Yes. Will Cleet be the one to figure it out? Hell yeah brother. But those Hemis are designed to be worked on and rebuilt quickly. Plus the tuners and other people that he's brought in to help with Eagles program means that it has a better chance of lasting. Same with using an engine Pete built in Leroy. They used to go through TSP 427s but what he's running now has been going quicker and faster but also hasn't been tearing shit up.
What engine is in the c5? I love that car.
Love seeing Dewey..
He is a beautiful animal
Why aren't you viral yet?!
He has almost 500,000 UA-cam subscribers. Cooper has 277K. I’d say he’s doing pretty good.
Converter ballooning and lock up rattle. I've seen them pins break before on Morel lifters. Every time it was during engine rattle. Either lockup, detonation, or wheel chatter.
As much as Cleetus abused that engine, I thought it looked pretty good.
Loves me some supervisor Dewey 🐾🐾❤
Steve isnt only for the people! Steve is for the dogs💪🏻STEVE FOR PRESIDENT 2025🎊
Forget the Big Black Hemi. Need more love for the Big Brown Pupper. Love the Dewey Dog.
Keep it up Steve. Watched you before cleetus used your engine.
Love your channel…. Enjoying your son’s too. Entertaining and massive data!!!!!
I got in trouble with the Cleetus fans over that SMX because I did blame Cleetus for breaking it, especially after he had it out on the burn-out pad.
What was he not supposed to push an engine that’s made for racing? It wasn’t cleet it was the motor
Ya I thought about commenting on Cleets lack of maintenance especially between rounds but figured I would catch heat from his fan base so I didn't. We will see how the new pro line does.
Wow . Your so cool.
@@jasonperkins1654you're. You're not cool.
@@MidgetPunter great 👍. But im not retarded either
Steve your awesome for bringing the whole idea around this to life with suck a big engine and sending it to REP you on all these big youtube channels- from when the rods shattered to Cleet giving you some more work to do on it the story is so cool man and proves you know your shi 👍
Boy he sure can break things
Probably from the torque converter swelling under lockup.
Thats racing!
@@tomcoon9038no that’s either carelessness or just down right not giving a fuck if shit breaks. It wasn’t that long ago cleetus went to a race knowing the trans was hurt. And just didn’t care to fix it.
@@paulbigham5079 Yea but, it's his money. He can whatever he wants with it regardless if you agree with it or not.
From watching precision transmission. Richard talks about turbo 400 if not setup correctly with thrust tolerance on the stack up and boost/line pressure that it would push on a crank so hard it would wipe out a crank in one run.
Cleet absolutely ABUSED that thing. But she was still running
I would definitely say that it has something to do with the lock up transmission. Steve and Tom are not using that style transmission and not having this sort of failure. There is no way a billet converter is ballooning but I think there is some kind of hydraulic force occurring between the transmission pump and converter during lock up pushing the crankshaft forward. Like a hydraulic ram pushing against the crankshaft.
So you’re going to use the motor that was in mullet to beat the Eagle?
@@gasparsperformance9841 highly unlikely
i think his target is more or less mullet....
I would expect he would want to go after Bret LaSala and his new Snot Rocket.
He’s the one to beat in drag and drive currently.
Really just to win drag and drive against whoever else is winning at the time.
Good luck with that. Eagle is several hundred pounds lighter.
@@pieflies first of all. excuse my bad english and greetings from germany.
second.... the snot rocket V3 is running clean mid sixes in testing.... really an nice competition at this drag`n`drives...
Sweet I've been waiting to see this. This well make my decision on uf I need one of these engines or not. I no he is great to his name but this just proves it. Great 👍 job
Man said "I don't need more bad publicity, I'm rebuilding it and putting it in a car built by a dude with OCD."
It was in a car built by the same guy
Yes but no matter who is in possession of the vehicle the maintenance will be kept up.
@@D3adCy11nd3r You think 2 broken main caps is the result of a lack of maintenance?
@KevinHuff23 you think a broken main bearing tang is from someone taking care of there engine...it's not that's from neglected maintenance and to much pressure from the trans
@@KevinHuff23 I think it is a joke and you are putting to much time and effort into defending a man on the Internet that is isn't under attack.
Cool thing about billet blocks and heads you can "blow them up", few TIG rods and some machining you're back in business
Won't take him long to destroy the proline boys got skills
I was thinking the exact same thing. He is definitely going to have to step up his program.
'Hell Yeah Brother, I'm Back!!!" that was great!!!
Now and that, Garrett got a new Proline engine, let see how long would it last?
28 passes. That's the standard
Do you even English? And it'll be tore down every 25-28 passes just like every other proline hemi. You need to do a little research before trying to bash someone online
Proof that there are still people that can break an anvil with a rubber hammer. This is what happens when you give Johnny Knoxville an unlimited budget. Let him go destroy someone else's stuff.
Shut up
Definitely interesting. There is an issue with something causing crank walk. That's never been an issue with that engine or any of your other engines. Diagnosing that would be a good video.
1 view in 34 seconds.. yur done
Thanks I appreciate that.
Wow . What a dick .
😭