Palo LiFePO4 Cells with 7200mAh. Any good?
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- I've ordered 4 Palo 32700 cells with 7200mAh capacity. We are doing a full capacity test on these cells with 0.2C and overlay the graphs later on to visualize the spread of capacity. Are these LiFePO4 cells any good?
The specs are reading sensational:
- 7200mAh
- charging with 3A
- continues discharge 35A (5C)
- internal resistance 8mOhms
Here is the link to these cells:
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Try doing a number of charge discharge cycles at a higher current if you look at tesla's battery factory they do forming as the capacity can be 25% less without it , sound familiar! I have Nickel Iron cells and they also require a forming process , lead acid also when first made but done before shipping.
Yeah, Li-ion and LiFePO4 don't need that. They are in full shape right from the start. But I'll do some more testing and see if 10 cycles make a difference.
@1:50 its already double as it is since for the the age u can only safely use 50% of the declared capacity and for those lithium , u can use almost 100%
Yes, that is true too!
Hey Andy, I love how you revert to native tongue when doing mental math :-D
So much easier 😁
Still more useable power than the 7.2ah agm and probably similar total cost, pop 8 of them in a 7.2ah agm casing and you’ll have a compact 10ah lifepo4 🙌
Yes, that was I was thinking. Also you can charge and discharge at a far higher rate as AGM. Seems to be far battery deal then buying AGM.
They look similar to my liitokala 7ah. I measured 5800mah capacity with Skyrc D100 equipment. Note: Here in Venice Italy we have temperature of 30C 😎
Yep, the Liitokala are the same 32700 series with similar capacity advertised. I was going to order some of them as they seemed to be a better known brand but if you say they are at similar capacity...
I have experience with LiitoKala 3.2V 32700 6500mAh LiFePO4 and VariCore 3.2V 32700 6500mAh LiFePO4 and have similar results between 5,3 Ah and 5,7 Ah. So this is their maximum.
Cells underperformed, but remember they gave you free heat shrink tubing.
I underestimated their offer and free give-away 😁
Stop your videos immediately! My wife is going to divorce me because she says I spend more time watching you than her.
I've got similar issues. Maybe we both should move together?
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I don't see why not. I can live in the garage, feed the cat, and scare away the bothersome birds.
@@JR-kk6ce That covers 90% of the tasks, I guess 😁
The cold, and not letting it absorb to 0.1 amps, could have affected the test
Yes, but the are making batteries in metric amp hours and you are measuring in Imperial units. That's why it looks like they are lying about capacity.
How much of an impact does temperature have on these batteries? If temps go down close to 0 maybe the batteries need to be warmer?
They are more sensitive to temperature than other chemistry. It's been shown in the next video where I do the 5C discharge test.
I just got 4 of these same PALO 7200maH cells and did a very thorough and proper top balance and got pretty much the same capacity as you did. (about 5250 maH) and I did a very slow discharge rate of about 0.15c and about 70 deg F in my basement where I tested. These PALO 7200maH are FALSE ADVERTISEMENT !
Yes, they are false advertised. But they are still good cells, I found. Even at 5.2Ah they are great for this price.
if your charging/discharging in the cold your talking about,, i can see the def,, its like my leaf packs they say don't charge in 32 degrees ,and if you use them in the same temp you wont get the reg capacity from them because of the temp ,,,
Agree. Most specs say dont charge below 32 degrees c.
@@Sanwizard1 The specs say do not charge below 32F or 0C.
In the cold means here just below 20°C inside the garage.
The German channel "Solaranlage" made very similar experiance with such high capacity 32700 cells, He thinks that such capacities are physically impossible.
Dimitri has a great channel. Watching his vids sometimes...
TEMPERATURE 🌡️ Play a big role with lifepo4 batteries. Do the research. That is why I keep my battery bank in die house as close to 25°C as possible. Lifepo4 is good tech BUT it has its limits too.
25°C is the ideal temperature.
$4.21 USD plus shipping on Aliexpress. Too expensive to touch. Was going to make a battery for the ride on lawnmower as over winter or long periods it dies. 1 year 80% degradation is nothing. You need to post a link for these.
Link is in the description as always.
off-grid-garage.com/batteries/
Amazing they have the cajones to mark each of them as 7.2AH! Yikes!
Thanks Andy for debunking these “Ali”crooks!👍
assumption 1: The inners layers have a different folding than prismatic cells. Round cells are rolled, and the path from the cell to the external contact might need to follow the rolled electrode. This might reflect in the internal resistance (relative to the capacity) and in the temperature of the cells after charging/discharging, hence in the capacity. Maybe the same test, with smaller current can reveal a higher capacity? assumption 2: it is cold and the chemistry simply does not like it?
Andy, something is going on in China. I have researched 5 different “new battery suppliers” and and if the specs, dimensions and weights are correct all show 20 to 25% stated over capacity. FYI I have 2 420ah ordered, same package and weight and discharge capacity as 280ah cell but of course at a higher cost.
Test first. You may be surprised. Density is increasing
Those 420Ah cells are almost assuredly a scam, but we won't know until people start receiving and testing them.
Yes please update us when you get them tested. I seen I person post a test and it only put out 240ah.
@@chadjensen511 I will post data, I don’t know when they will be shipped, I ordered them almost 3 weeks ago and still haven’t received a acknowledgement on the order.
@@chadjensen511 well they are 280ah cells… and probably only a lower grade.
jes man its life po4 battry wili good
Great work Andy, look forward to the next cell tests. Li-ion and LiFePo4 rolled cells?
now that you know there real cap ; accept it and still use them for what they are. it seems that everything coming from china is way over rated.
i bought a 8k inverter that turned out to be a 3k unit when i ask they said it would do 8k for 30 seconds. 3k continues.
Yep, I have built a battery with these, when tested I was getting around 5.5Ah. Not bad for the price but I agree, they should advertise the real capacity.
Would be interesting to build a power wall with these small cells. And compare the cost/kwh compared to the large 280ah cells.
Yeah, how would that look like... do the maths.
Based on the following
32700 @ 6ah / prismatic @ 280ah
$1.50 per cell $155 per cell
Additional cell holders for 32700 cells $10.
Need 46ish cells for equivalent ah.
So 16x32700 cells would. Cost $1280.
16x280ah cells would cost $2480.
Rough figures of course.
@@dillonray2975 Cell holders are included with the 32700 😁
Wow, that's a good calculation, so we need 'only' 750 cells of the 32700 to match that 48V battery... 😬
Still, only half price... I didn't expect that.
072421/1549h PST 🇺🇸 072521/0849h Brisbane 🇦🇺 . Guten Tag, sir. Thanks for the new opening song.
Nu Thoung, “NoMoDe”. Celtic, I presume? Gut, danke.
At the advent of LiFePo4s, I have kept myself far away from 18650, 26650 and all the spin-offs promising Nuclear Energy! There are few that stands firm on their labeling, like the original Panasonic, LG, Samsung etc etc. I have a few trusted 21700s from the above manufacturers. And all those cells are used on old MAGLITE torches (flashlights) after a lot of modifications and alterations. What do I do with so many modified MAGLITEs?
I distribute them amongst the family, friends and neighbours.
Thank you again for the research, data collection on PALO (Spanish) pole, or stick etc etc. I wouldn’t give a Palo to any one and get beaten by it, as I say! Stay safe und 73s…
Great Test! Which BMS do you recommend, to put such four cells in serial, to have a 12V System for my Solar System? Uh i need a charge contoller for LiFePO4 too... Thx from Austria
Were you able to get a chance to look at the big testers power supply and see if it was switchable to 110v for 🇺🇸 current?
No sorry, it's on my list somewhere... coming soon...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia no need. I have purchased the tester and indeed it does have the switch on the bottom of the case to switch between 110v and 220v. Its litteraly on the bottom no need to open the case at all
Andy what was your thought..? Were they close to 5.5 amps new or 7.2 old ones? Thanks for that test they tend to be too expensive these days and for sure I could try some 18650 than those in diy. You could easily hit 7 ams capacity in 3 x 18650 and similar weight
These are good some of the best battery are made from similar cells if a cell drops it doesn't fully shut down your battery it just reduces your capacity
Would you advise to use these battery’s as a capacity equalizer? For the battery 1.0?
Probably not. The danger is that we could see very large equalisation currents from the 280Ah cells into the 5Ah Palo's. While testing we had a BMS connected to each battery which turned off of the current exceeded our set threshold. If we just parallel these very different cells, there is nothing stopping these high currents.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I was wondering if that problem could be solved just by adding a resistor or other current limiting device.
Greetings from holland by the way. We deliver our solar almost straight to the grid minus what we consume so I am very interested in how to be off grid while still being on the grid…
I am using a SolarEdge in combination with optimizers they work very well in my case.
lucky for me, in my country there are lifepo4 32650s with 5800-6000mah capacity for only $2-2.5 each.
Hola ! He visto comentarios que dicen que las lifepo4 solo duran 5-6 anos , como es posible 2000 ciclos en 5-6 anos ?
Yo tengo algunas de las liitokala 32700 pero tienen una resistencia interna alta , no tengo aparato para medirlo , pero con 1A de descarga cae de 3,30 a 3,26
2A de descarga cae de 3,30 a 3,22
Crees que estan mal , casi no las he usado nunca en 2 anos , solo las cargue y descargue 2 veces , las he guardado a 3,33v ?
Mi ideea es hacer una bateria de taladro pero con esta caida no se si es posible , no se si esto es normal , las li-ion tienen muy poca vida util , pero con las lifepo4 me siento egual de deceptionado
I have some similar 32700 cells that are FullRiver brand. Fortunately mine test exactly as advertised! Of course, they are advertised as 5 Ah ;-)
Hey, same with mine! Are your cells in cardboard sleeves?
@@Sylvan_dB Yes! Those are the ones. Love 'em!
I looove your videos
An advantage is that they are even so there will be no problems with great imbalance but bad that they did not keep what they promise.
I would also like to see that you do not charge immediately but let them rest for 10-20 minutes to see how much they recover themselves before you charge them again. Is curious to see if you do cycles between 2.5-3.65v at max and 2.8-3.5v to see how the difference is in cycles before they lose capacity (should take 1.5 hours / cycle) when if you do not use the tester, you can do a little more long-term test or if you take the big one, you can run at 30-40A and charge faster and let it run lap after lap when you are not using it and keep track of how many laps it will be ( document at different levels first so have references only)
so when you have not reached anything else to test or when you work or at night you can do it
Very well done Andy you are really eye opener company's truth can be assessed directly......go ahead sir with similar testing.
Heaps to come! Thank you.
Those cells are small enough, it might be interesting to cycle them a few times and see if the capacity goes up. I'd expect it to go up a little bit, maybe 5%. Wire them in series so the test can go faster. If you don't have a handy 4s BMS it should be fine to keep the voltage in the center of the range and don't worry about it.
Is there any benefit to using them on your raspberry pi as a backup battery? So that when/if the main battery goes out, you can still connect to the raspi? It may not be worth the effort to make it work, but thought I’d ask. Good job as always!
Jumper under your t-shirt? As you say if they just stated their actual capacity we would be happy as 5ah for price is still pretty good. Good test quite interesting the small variations.
Sounds like 18650 mis-selling going on here. The 10000mAh 18650 has been re-incarnated, and stalks the earth in a slightly different guise.
Well not quite as egregious but ya lies are not good for trust and business
Ok while they are new mark one of them, and hurt it going too low. The mark another hurt it going high. Then let’s see life over the other two not injured. Please
Kurze Frage zum kleinen ZKE .... wenn man per PC Abläufe einprogrammiert muss der pc lie ganze Zeit dann anbleiben oder kann man den runterfahren
Nein, der mus laufen. Die Software laeuft im Hintergrund, nimmt die Daten vom Lader und zeichnet den Graph.
Der Dell Computer hat nur 60W...
Thumbs up and subscribed!
Thank you!
For li-ion 18650 batteries 99% of Chinese sellers lies about capacity. it just begins with lifepo4...
Yes it’s all about face in China, even in a lie it’s acceptable. But there are SOME suppliers that are honest… we just need to find them.
The capacity isnt too low, your expectation was to high.
Remember 96 Cents per Cell include two heatshrinks
Forgot about they added the free heatshrink, yeah, right! 😁
Sir, i really want to uae thia lifepo4 6000mah battery as power bank. Can you help me build - recommended power bank circuit board - how to safely charge. 😅
Thanks for this test I wanted to get some of these to see if they were as advertised!
They are still great, I think and worth the money.
Kindly perfom the same test on Battery hookup 5000 & 6000mah 32700's
I don't know if he can even get them in Australia but maybe
Id like this software/setup, what is it?
Link?
If you need to see the variables in theses types of cells check out Battery Mooch UA-cam. He does testing and discussions on lithium cells for vaping. Mainly 18650, 18350, 20700, 21700, cells.
Even the married Chinese women's are saying that they were cheated before marriage.
Sometimes chinese man tend to over report their product. 😅
Still you got lucky, only 25% less...
The excuse it was cold. 🥶 😂
150 g 5000-5500 mAh sound's about right in this cell format.
Well found 4 more suppliers doing the same thing with over spec-Ing the 32700 cells. Bad thing we need to watch is 3 out of 4 customers complaining that AliExpress is not supporting customers about lower (20 to 25%) or damaged cells, or even purchases that don’t get delivered. Looks like shopping in AliExpress we are on out own especially with new suppliers.
I've got very good results with AliExpress customer service. If I cannot resolve it with the seller, I escalated directly with Ali and they get it sorted usually within 2 days.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia my results are about 50 50 .. I bought walk-in talkie radios one was new , the other was obviously a customer return and broken. The seller first denied shipping it than said to get the product fixed locally, China product ? I contacted aliexpress and they said I had to work it out with supplier. I also bought some lifepo4 75ah batteries (8) and they never arrived, supplier said he had a shipper that said were delivered, I took the shipping info and contacted customs and found the numbers supplied were never received in US , aliexpress said I had to work it out with the supplier because they already paid them .. I can go on. I have started buying through alibaba and can can talk to complies and can check company credentials.
8:50 "Vier im Sinn...ähhmmm...Drei...ähhmmm..."
😂😂 Man merkt, dass du deutschsprachig bist 😂
Hahaha, nur fuer die Kamera 😁
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Nicht mal ein "ü" in der Tastatur oder was?😂
Could that result be caused by the temperature? AFAIK LiFePo4-Cells don't like low temperatures (including charging at below 0°C).
It was 14° at time of the test inside the garage.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Sorry, I only saw your thermometer showing an outside temperature of approx. 1 °C. I never assumed the inside of the garage to be more than 10°C warmer.
Hey you are inflating too -- At 1:22 you say $0.96 each then at 18:17 you inflate cost to $6 each.
I said you can get them on Alibaba for as little as 96c. I bought mine form AliExpress for $6/ea.
A quicker way of checking cells for quality and ageing ?
Your 280Ahr cells were labelled as 0.15Mil Ohm, multiplied out gives 42.
Take the 42 and divide by the new cell 8.3Mil ohm gives 5.06 which is very close to your measured capacity.
It seems reasonable to assume the internal resistance would change proportionally with capacity.
Some test to see how this varies with state of charge and temperature would be interesting.
Dear Andy, many thanks for your video’s , i have had the hope that you show something a about spot welding in this video. I need a relaiable spot welder, i have some 18650 they are waiting for a new usecase. I am not sure if should solder the 18650 together or i better use a spot welder. Maybe your have an answer for my challenge. Danke Thomas
Battery Hookup has good cells
Thank you. Very informative. We only have these in the store in my region. :) Found your video to check the specs.
My old FullRiver 32700 cells are rated at 5000mAh and seem to run about 5500mAh. Palo must have exaggerated a bit :)
Hi Andy. I really enjoy your videos. I have watched them all. Since you seem to like testing batteries, I have a question and I would kindly ask you to test this. Can you parallel say a 100Ah battery pack with a 200Ah pack and expect to get 300Ah similar to paralleling capacitors? From everything I have seen online and read, no one seems to think this will work. The consensus is that you will only get 200Ah since the lower capacity pack will discharge more quickly and its BMS will stop the discharge first and end the discharge when it reaches 2.5V per cell. I wonder if this is really the case. I ask because I currently have 16 70Ah cells I would like to make into a 48V pack and parallel with a 16 cell 135Ah pack I plan to buy if this will work. You seem to have the necessary cells to test this, so would that be possible? I would greatly appreciate it.
Yep you can
Yes you can. It is usually best to parallel the cells first then series, but you will do okay paralleling the packs. Lithium works this way a lot better than lead because lithium chemistry has lower internal resistance.
When connecting batteries in parallel you connect plus to plus and also minus to minus and it is best to connect the charger and the loads on a diagonal - i.e. plus to battery one, minus to battery two - instead of connecting to a single battery. That helps to distribute the power more evenly thru the wires making the parallel connection.
Thanks guys. Like Andy, I would prefer to create two separate battery packs and parallel those to prevent a single point of failure in the BMS.
Buy some LithiumWerks
I live in shorts and t shirt also and i'm in vic. Even during winter. Hard habit to break.
35A? Yeah, that is almost 7C... I guess they will be sweating.
Like the parallel setup
Its a fake 7200mah
Nice that you already started the battery tests!! Love those tests! 👍
"... 3.26V rest, not sure at which state of capacity they are..??"... exactly, me neither!
Would be great if you could do the test I suggested/requested previously.
1. Capacity test, then calculate how much 10%capacity are,
2. Program charge with 0.2c 10% capacity (hope that's programmable/possible!?) , rest for 10 to 20min, charge anther 10%, rest again,.... Like that till 100%soc. Then rest, discharge 10%, rest, discharge... till 0%soc. Maybe do 5% steps to get more points for the rest voltage curve.
3. Do the whole test with 0.5c to see whether there are any changes to the rest voltage curve!?
Result: charge curve, rest curve charge, discharge curve, rest curve discharge
Are the charge and discharge rest curves always the same?
Looking forward to it!!
With Thanks
Max
Max, the curves are in! We already tested this with the 100Ah LiFePO4 cell. the curves show exactly when we had 10% or 90% charge in the cell. All the data is on my website.
I will do some more cycles with these smaller cells as it does not take too long then and present the results.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia
Many thanks for the reply!
Yes I know, you already produced and uploaded plenty of charge and discharge curves (they would be only a byproduct in this particular test/ not the target of this test) but as far as I know there are no "resting curves"yet!? Means whenever you pause the voltage settles to rest voltage. In the prescribed way above we could find out the exact resting voltage for 10% 20% 30%... 100%soc or even 5% 10% 15%.... 100%. If we could obtain that info we would be able to determine (or at least estimate it better) the soc of a battery even at rest.
The target of this experiment are the resting curves and whether the resting voltage at a particular soc is always the same or whether there is a difference in the resting voltage after charging or discharging or slow charging or fast charging.
@@off-gridretreat9293 But why do you need the SOC for these batteries at all? You can charge them to 100% all the time if you keep the voltage low. High (or low) voltage is causing degradation, not the SOC.
It is different with Li-ion cells as the curve is far more linear. We can measure a voltage and have a pretty good understanding of what SOC the cell is in. To get Li-ion to 90% you need voltage to achieve that. That causes degradation.
With LiFePO4, you don't need a high charge voltage as you can already fully charge the cell to 99.9% at 3.35V with absorption time. This does not add any stress at all.
@@OffGridGarageAustraliaWow that was quick!! 😁
Suppose you get some new cells and measure their resting voltage. Now having a resting curve you would be able to tell right away "they are around 40%soc." or "they sent me full cells!"
Or for example if you have a small camping 12V battery pack with no smart shunt or smart bms and you would like to know how much capacity is left. voltage is the only thing which could give you a clue. If we don't know the soc we are unable to calculate whether we have enough power to power a certain load for a certain period of time or if we have to restrain our power usage till the time we can charge our pack again. So having a rest voltage soc curve would be helpful in eg such instances.
@@off-gridretreat9293 voltage alone does not tell us what SOC the cells are in with LiFepO4. At 3.25V for example it can be 30% or 60%. Even after resting, there is no conclusive and consistent way to determine the SOC just by measuring the voltage. I have fully discharged cells to 2.5V and after a day the voltage shows us 3.15V again. Discharging this cell again with the same current, shows next to no capacity until it goes down to 2.5V again. 3.15V could mean we still have over 20% left in other circumstances. Once the voltage drops below ~3.1V or rises above 3.4V it either means we roughly have 10% left on each side.. Roughly. It could be 5% also...
Sad, very sad…
Keep testing🎉
Ohhh ya just made me yawn 🥱 lol
They seem terrible on the discharge test lol. I am cheating watching vids out of order ..
You do!
Take them for your gate ;o) gruß walter
do some testing on LTO cells
Andy when did you get the spot welder.
Palo Crap ?
Na, they are not crap, just over promising a bit. Still good cells.
Very nice experiment.
Thanks Andy, A bit disappointing.
In the price u will know it already its not grade A its a fake its grade C osr scrap cell
They are good cells. keep watching the series about them...
In the smaller batteries from Chinese I get same type of reasons just sad. Morning Andy.