This explains so much about CNC lathe to me. I've never even come close to CNC lathes, but I've always watched from a distance and wondered how the heck they go about all the tooling.
The numbers following the letters on the holder denote the cross section size (square or rectangle) of the shank, the insert it uses, it's length, and whether or not that length is qualified precisely. Your last tool was an SCLCR 12-3C, which means that the shank size is 3/4" (12 for 12/16ths) square and takes a 3/8" IC insert (3 for 3/8ths) (IC stands for Inscribed Circle BTW) and has a qualified length of 5" (C = 5", comes from a table, no formula here). The size that is showing up in your CAM system is the metric (ISO) equivalent (19 = 19mm sq, which given that what you've got entered in the form is less than 20mm the software is just jumping down to the next smaller size, which BTW would be a custom tool, most brands jump from 16mm to 20mm), the K = 125mm length (you've got 4.921" entered in the overall length field), and the -03 is the insert size (3/8" IC, which should be -09 for a proper ISO part number, but it seems that the software is just reaching for a suitable part number with the mishmash of info you've given it). Gotta bone up on this stuff if you're gonna go make a presentation to try and teach other people about it. Tried to post some links to this info for you to read, but UA-cam won't allow it for some reason.
Great work John... The 2020 K03 stand (In my metric country) for a 20 by 20mm shank thickness, K stands for the shank length 125mm in this case, and the 03 is for the size of the cutting 'flute?' of the insert... (because you can buy the same tool holder or different size inserts)
+NYCCNC All of those numbers and letters are ISO/ANSI standards. Carbide depot has an good page detailing everything, and the kennametal master catalog does an excellent job. In essence, it goes Insert shape (first letter) Relief angle (second letter) Tolerance class (third) Chipbreaker/holder type (fourth) Diameter of an inscribed circle - in essence the insert size (first number) Thickness (second number) Nose radius (third number). Insert size is the number of 8ths of an inch, Thickness is number of 16ths Corner radius is number of 64ths Based on those numbers you should be able to know exactly the details of the insert. For example if I tell you I have a CNMG432 (which happens to be rather common) you can, from that alone, know everything you need to know about the insert
+akromix thanks for the kind words! It means a lot! It took me literally forever to figure it all out the first time so I'm always thrilled to pass info along!
Great info Ben! The inserts can fit certain holders and generally we use the 1st tool you did as a finishing tool with a smaller radius or for clearance on a part we were making and the 2nd tool we used for roughing out our part since it's stronger and could take bigger depth of cuts with it. The one thing that you absolutely have to watch for is how the tool is loaded into your machine to make sure you turn your material in the correct direction so that it actually cuts the material. If it's mounted with the insert up it needs to spin CW and if the insert is down (so you can't see it) the material needs to turn CCW. If the materail is turning the wrong way it won't cut and usually breaks the inserts which are not cheap usually.
+Mad Painter Thanks for the kind words! As you mentioned, the CCGT (or CNMG, they're both very similar) are pretty much most commonly used as the main roughing tool in a lathe, and the V geometries are used mostly for profiling. Also, very good point about the rotation direction of the material, very important to take note of!
+Ben Strobel Thanks. Both can be used for roughing or finishing without a doubt and I didn't mean to make it sound like they was only for one or the other. I think our instructor liked to do that to us to make us write more lines of code for the heck of it. lol
Can I draw my own insert definition? I need a YNMG insert which is not a selectable option. It is like a VNMG but with a 25degree tip on the 35degree general angle. Great for profiling!
What do you do when the tool supplier (tormach) doesnt know the tool size? You did show one that was listed, but I have a full set that they dont list or seem to know anything about. I can see grizzly sells a nearly identical set, only color of inserts are different. Who is willing to gamble a crash because tormach wont give the info?
JohnCould you talk about selecting the tip control point when setting up a tool. I have had problems with using different control points and finally solved by using "center tip". I am using tool compensation "in control". But no one wants to talk about how control points are used and why, as well as what the differences are in the different tool compensation selections. Please get Fusion to address this and Tormach to create the library tools for Fusion to put in their library for the Rapid Turn deluxe tools (3/8 inch shank tools) so don't gave to create all the tools.. ThanksGreg
Hi John. I don't think you are getting the same "style" number on your holder because the rest of the holder dimensions are not set correctly, like shank size, overall length, etc.
The 2020 means 20x20mm square shank. And the rest is what it is. But always the letters and numbers make out the insert and tool holder in "machinist" lanhuage. You could go shopping to a salesman with just those codes and you'd get what you want.
Thanks for this John. It helped me figure out the insert for the Tormach boring bar set here (www.tormach.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=33142), but I can't figure out how to get the holder correct. The worst problem is that F360 treats it as a square, blocky holder, and so the simulation has it colliding all the time, but in reality it's round with flats. How would you set up the holder (for the middle tool in that set, the S06S boring bar)? Thanks!
OK John, I have a Fusion tip to share. While trying to replicate a Tormach tool holder using a vertical mill, I wanted to put the lathe tool in the vise. To make the undercut so the tool tip radius won't interfere with the collet, i needed to angle the tool in the vise. It took me a while to figure it out, but in SELECT TOOL>EDIT TOOL, on the SETUP TAB, there is a field marked ORIENTATION. Just type in the angle and it shows on the tool preview. Slick and easy. The angle you enter is the angle you actually set the tool holder in the vise. If I did it right, here is a link to the Fusion 360 file: a360.co/1mq7wUD There is also a check box for spindle rotation, if needed. Might be handy if I get the setup backwards! By the way, I will be mounting the 1.5" drill rod in a BT40 1.5" setscrew endmill holder. Z and X Axes remain the same as for a lathe. Y sets the tool on center of the work.
Great! thanks. I put off watching this until I needed it today. Really helpful. One suggestion, when you need to refer to another screen often, you can put Fusion on the right with maybe 3/4 of the screen and put the other screen on the left 1/4. ourcadguy.com/Images/Fusion.JPG
This explains so much about CNC lathe to me. I've never even come close to CNC lathes, but I've always watched from a distance and wondered how the heck they go about all the tooling.
What a great tutorial I'm paying close attention so much to learn ! thanks for the great content as always John!
Thanks for the intro to the turning insert and holder setup in F360 and HSMWorks. Now I just need a CNC lathe. : )
Great Video ! As always, Learn something new every video !
Chris
im trying to get into cnc lathe-ing. more of this sort of content please!
is it a ballscrew ?
The numbers following the letters on the holder denote the cross section size (square or rectangle) of the shank, the insert it uses, it's length, and whether or not that length is qualified precisely.
Your last tool was an SCLCR 12-3C, which means that the shank size is 3/4" (12 for 12/16ths) square and takes a 3/8" IC insert (3 for 3/8ths) (IC stands for Inscribed Circle BTW) and has a qualified length of 5" (C = 5", comes from a table, no formula here).
The size that is showing up in your CAM system is the metric (ISO) equivalent (19 = 19mm sq, which given that what you've got entered in the form is less than 20mm the software is just jumping down to the next smaller size, which BTW would be a custom tool, most brands jump from 16mm to 20mm), the K = 125mm length (you've got 4.921" entered in the overall length field), and the -03 is the insert size (3/8" IC, which should be -09 for a proper ISO part number, but it seems that the software is just reaching for a suitable part number with the mishmash of info you've given it).
Gotta bone up on this stuff if you're gonna go make a presentation to try and teach other people about it.
Tried to post some links to this info for you to read, but UA-cam won't allow it for some reason.
Great work John... The 2020 K03 stand (In my metric country) for a 20 by 20mm shank thickness, K stands for the shank length 125mm in this case, and the 03 is for the size of the cutting 'flute?' of the insert... (because you can buy the same tool holder or different size inserts)
image (although in Dutch): dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10886452/Beitels.pdf
What is the last page of the new tool? Is the number the actual tool number in the machine, and the second number the tip orientation?
+NYCCNC All of those numbers and letters are ISO/ANSI standards. Carbide depot has an good page detailing everything, and the kennametal master catalog does an excellent job. In essence, it goes Insert shape (first letter) Relief angle (second letter) Tolerance class (third) Chipbreaker/holder type (fourth) Diameter of an inscribed circle - in essence the insert size (first number) Thickness (second number) Nose radius (third number).
Insert size is the number of 8ths of an inch,
Thickness is number of 16ths
Corner radius is number of 64ths
Based on those numbers you should be able to know exactly the details of the insert. For example if I tell you I have a CNMG432 (which happens to be rather common) you can, from that alone, know everything you need to know about the insert
+Ben Strobel This needs a big like. Super informative for people that don't know. You literally typed what I was about to respond with. :)
+akromix thanks for the kind words! It means a lot! It took me literally forever to figure it all out the first time so I'm always thrilled to pass info along!
Great info Ben!
The inserts can fit certain holders and generally we use the 1st tool you did as a finishing tool with a smaller radius or for clearance on a part we were making and the 2nd tool we used for roughing out our part since it's stronger and could take bigger depth of cuts with it. The one thing that you absolutely have to watch for is how the tool is loaded into your machine to make sure you turn your material in the correct direction so that it actually cuts the material. If it's mounted with the insert up it needs to spin CW and if the insert is down (so you can't see it) the material needs to turn CCW. If the materail is turning the wrong way it won't cut and usually breaks the inserts which are not cheap usually.
+Mad Painter Thanks for the kind words! As you mentioned, the CCGT (or CNMG, they're both very similar) are pretty much most commonly used as the main roughing tool in a lathe, and the V geometries are used mostly for profiling. Also, very good point about the rotation direction of the material, very important to take note of!
+Ben Strobel Thanks. Both can be used for roughing or finishing without a doubt and I didn't mean to make it sound like they was only for one or the other. I think our instructor liked to do that to us to make us write more lines of code for the heck of it. lol
Can I draw my own insert definition?
I need a YNMG insert which is not a selectable option.
It is like a VNMG but with a 25degree tip on the 35degree general angle. Great for profiling!
Very interesting, good luck with your presentation.
Also, it seems the most recent version of Fusion 360 has a much more primitive tool configuration interface.
Tee holder discrepancies are just shaft dimensions. You might be using 1/2" shank and set up as 3/4" shanks in HSM.
Nice vid. Next is rope thread!!! Successive thread cycles with different Z starting points.
What do you do when the tool supplier (tormach) doesnt know the tool size? You did show one that was listed, but I have a full set that they dont list or seem to know anything about. I can see grizzly sells a nearly identical set, only color of inserts are different. Who is willing to gamble a crash because tormach wont give the info?
Another great video. Thanks
JohnCould you talk about selecting the tip control point when setting up a tool. I have had problems with using different control points and finally solved by using "center tip". I am using tool compensation "in control". But no one wants to talk about how control points are used and why, as well as what the differences are in the different tool compensation selections. Please get Fusion to address this and Tormach to create the library tools for Fusion to put in their library for the Rapid Turn deluxe tools (3/8 inch shank tools) so don't gave to create all the tools..
ThanksGreg
The toolholder number youre unsure of will be the gripped section. 2020 represents 20mm x 20mm the k03 im not sure of however
Try Engineers Black Book. Indexable inserts will make a lot more sense.
Hi John. I don't think you are getting the same "style" number on your holder because the rest of the holder dimensions are not set correctly, like shank size, overall length, etc.
The 2020 means 20x20mm square shank. And the rest is what it is. But always the letters and numbers make out the insert and tool holder in "machinist" lanhuage. You could go shopping to a salesman with just those codes and you'd get what you want.
Thanks for this John. It helped me figure out the insert for the Tormach boring bar set here (www.tormach.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=33142), but I can't figure out how to get the holder correct. The worst problem is that F360 treats it as a square, blocky holder, and so the simulation has it colliding all the time, but in reality it's round with flats. How would you set up the holder (for the middle tool in that set, the S06S boring bar)? Thanks!
the 1919 is the shank size in mm you got 0.787 something which is 19,9mm
OK John, I have a Fusion tip to share. While trying to replicate a Tormach tool holder using a vertical mill, I wanted to put the lathe tool in the vise. To make the undercut so the tool tip radius won't interfere with the collet, i needed to angle the tool in the vise. It took me a while to figure it out, but in SELECT TOOL>EDIT TOOL, on the SETUP TAB, there is a field marked ORIENTATION. Just type in the angle and it shows on the tool preview. Slick and easy. The angle you enter is the angle you actually set the tool holder in the vise.
If I did it right, here is a link to the Fusion 360 file:
a360.co/1mq7wUD
There is also a check box for spindle rotation, if needed. Might be handy if I get the setup backwards!
By the way, I will be mounting the 1.5" drill rod in a BT40 1.5" setscrew endmill holder. Z and X Axes remain the same as for a lathe. Y sets the tool on center of the work.
Do a video on threading with mach3 and I will buy you a 12 pack of your favorite beverage.
I love the way you Hack :-) Brilliant... We should rename you "Neo" lol
John, you will just memorize this stuff after awhile. lol Its just click and makes sense just like g codes
Great! thanks. I put off watching this until I needed it today. Really helpful. One suggestion, when you need to refer to another screen often, you can put Fusion on the right with maybe 3/4 of the screen and put the other screen on the left 1/4.
ourcadguy.com/Images/Fusion.JPG