Ghost light is a story I still get lost with even after several viewings 😂 it’s good but deep and needs serious concentration to understand it. Really looking forward to seeing you react to more than 30 years in the Tardis, especially the scenes with Jon Pertwee. I hope we will see you react to the 60th too
This is a densely layered one and one you definitely have to think about. There are also a ton of references to Victorian literature, including Alice in Wonderland, Pygmalion, Dracula, Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, Heart of Darkness, Punch cartoons of apes in human clothing and probably many more I'm forgetting. "Tricky things, mammoths." is possibly my all time favorite throwaway line in Doctor Who
Basic plot: 3 squabbling god-like aliens land a spaceship in the basement of a house in Victoria Britain. Light, Survey and Control. Light is trying to catalogue all the species on the planet and is getting annoyed that they keep evolving and wants to halt the evolution so his catalogue is correct. Survey sees evolution as an amusing thing for him play with. He changes form (into Josiah) and enjoys stirring up trouble like serving primordial soup for dinner and regressing evolution deniers back to primates. Control is the only one who seems to respect evolution and embraces it. Consequently, she is the most successful at integrating herself into the society and being accepted. The whole thing is about accepting and embracing change. Ace accepting how her best friend being attacked by racists changed her, but mainly (as it's Cartmel) having a go at the Tories in 80s Britain, whom he saw as being against progress (Section 28 for example). Victorian Britain becomes a metaphor for the polished veneer of Tory society, hiding all its problems under the surface.
@@raybearoz There’s obviously a lot more, but I was trying to give an overview in a paragraph. The rest is mostly just Survey (Josiah) trying to take over (like brainwashing Redvers into assassinating the monarch). Nimrod is just a sample they collected (like the policeman).
When I first saw this at the time as a kid, I really enjoyed it, but didn't know what was going on. When I got the DVD decades later, I really enjoyed it, but didn't know what was going on. I then watched it with the audio commentary, and Platt's comments made it completely click for me. I adore Ghost Light, one of my all-time favourites now.
Have never thought about watching with the commentary - I'll have to give that a go. I feel I understand most of it... well... you know... a reasonable amount of it... well... but yeah... could use more!
Ghost Light has some fun exchanges between two people who are bonkers in different ways. The "Is it appropriate to seek your wisdom?" conversation between Nimrod and Redvers is another good one.
You are spot on when you say you need to see then end and go back... .This story has so much in it. Once you've had time to read comments, go back and watch it again... there are so many single liners that now make sense, and the story is even more enjoyable. I once read someone's comment on this that "Ghostlight is the first Doctor Who story made for the video age. You need to go back and watch it again and again to understand" This is fantastic science fiction at it's best
As many have said, it helps to watch this story twice. I was unable to see it when it aired, and I read the Target novelisation before I saw a recording of the TV version several years later. The novelisation is fantastic, and really helps make sense of the TV version.
That’s Ghost Light for you! It’s my #2 story in the McCoy era and probably in Doctor Who overall but it’s a *lot*. Capturing something of its vibes in something I write is a big goal of mine.
As someone who enjoys surrealism, I don't mind an obscure or even a nonsensical plot, provided what I'm watching is stimulating, atmospheric and well-executed. Ghost Light ticks all those boxes for me, and I love it :)
I watched this one drunk the first time and adored it. It has a really amazing theme that’s a lovely undercurrent to all this. It’s one of those stories where you have to really pay attention to what’s going on. But it is known for being a hard one to follow.
This story is a masterpiece. The truly bonkers sci-fi plot, the acting and performance choices (some quite odd, but it actually works to make it more surreal and gothic), and the dialogue is witty and layered. Took me quite a few rewatches over the years to figure it all out (and the literary references), and it was still enjoyable each time. It's genuinely cerebral, sophisticated Dr Who while still being hugely entertaining.
I love the dialogue in this story - I think this is there first time I caught what Ace was saying when she said, in response to breakfast she's presented with, that it's cholesterol city" and the maid, misunderstanding her, corrects her and says "No, Perivale village:
Here is the plot: The doctor and Ace arrive in a house in 1883 and then the plot goes through the looking-glass. It's totally brilliant but it really needs repeated viewings. Clever, clever stuff
Basics: "Light" was an alien creature that traveled to planets to catalogue life there. He had two servants named Survey and Control who could evolve. Like a experiment control, the Control character would stay on the Ship whilst Survey would go out and evolve into a planets highest life form. Eventually they came to Earth, and Light took specimens. But eventually Light went into hibernation and Survey trapped Light there. Survey trapped Control in the cellarand went up and started to evolve, starting as a Bug creature and evolving into Josiah. Josiah essentially takes over Gabriel Chase, enslaves everyone, and wants to gain power. But Josiah is also scared of Light getting released, as Light is essentially his boss. The rest comes out in Part 3...
I think the central problem for viewers - even now - is that you have to be picking up on ideas all the time to make sense of it. And from that perspective it doesn't feel like a show going out early evening in the kind of entertainment format that it seemed to occupy in the previous two years. Certainly there's no tinsel around the set! Obviously, that's a boon for fans watching today in the Blu-Ray/Streaming age. But, of course, back then it was 'one and done'.
Excellent story, ❤ so different from any style that the producer John Nathan Turner had done before. No bubblegum, froth, rose tinted specs and so deeply woven
@12:20 Nooooooooooooo! You can't ever do that, surely?! Please?! That's like finding out the *** dunnit! :p ;) Loved this story when it first came out. Still do. ;)
Just rewatched this whole story earlier and yes it is confusing, however, from subsequent viewings you start to understand it more and more. I could tell you what it’s about and how it ends, but no spoilers allowed.
Ghost Light takee multiple watches to understand. My first viewing I loved the atmosphere but couldnt underdtand it at all. I watched the dvd special feature where the cast didnt understand it it. Basicially (and given you are now wilderness years) The Nimrod, Control and Josiah work for light catalogging all life amd Josiah evolved with forms from the planet and the husks were his old bodies. Josiah wanted freedom so trapped.light and comtrol and wants them to stay down there. Control also wants freedom Pritchard I assume was then sister of Josiah wife explaining Qwenderline calling him uncle. He has an obession with sending people to Java. Light doesnt like evolution a d wants things to stay as they are. Thats basically what I underatand from this one. Feel like it could have beem a 4 parter explaining half the stuff going on. As a story its too all pver the place and complicated but unlike Silver Nemesis the atmosphere of this one is amazing
I can sympathise with your bewilderment, as it is very difficult to get a handle on what is going on. Large chunks of explanatory dialogue in Marc Platt’s original scripts had to be cut for time, and that makes it much harder to follow. As you say, the acting is very good, and a couple of the guest stars had been in the show before. Michael Cochrane, who plays Redvers Fenn-Cooper, was in Black Orchid, and Frank Windsor (the police inspector) had previously appeared in The King’s Demons. He was best known to the public for playing another policeman, John Watt, in the long-running BBC drama Z Cars and its various spin-offs.
As saw this dr who back home NZ as a 10 year old boy back in 1989 I was confused as a 44 year man 2023 i am still confused about story. I have watch a few times in between
I understand it's to do with evolution and there are some nice elements to it atospherically. It was heavily edited and as a result makes it very confusing. I think it's a shame in order to completely understand this story you need to see the full unedited version or listen to the running commentary whilst watching. Neither my husband and I enjoy it enough to want to do either. Glad you are finding something of interest to enjoy watching it though.
We got to see a meta parody of DW in Greatest Show; then we got to see UNIT, the Brigadier, and Bessie again. Now we get to see an absolutely bonkers episode showing how wild DW can be. It doesn't help that the script was planned originally as a 4 parter and then had to be edited to three parts. A lot of explanatory material was lost. But it doesn't really matter. It's a train wreck, but you can't look away. And you can't forget.
It’s a very clever, erudite and layered story but it’s totally overrated by many. It represents to me a lot of the issues I have with Seventh Doctor era - overly complex plot, a bit too stylised, McCoy’s acting, trying to be too clever and not quite pulling it off.
Yeah…I really hate this story it’s always been one of the worst of the classic series. It’s overly grim with nothing really making sense it’s a lot of just things happening for no reason. It honestly is kind fun ti watch and laugh at honestly.
FULL LENGTH | More Than 30 Years In The Tardis | REACTION
www.patreon.com/posts/full-length-more-89092231
Ghost light is a story I still get lost with even after several viewings 😂 it’s good but deep and needs serious concentration to understand it.
Really looking forward to seeing you react to more than 30 years in the Tardis, especially the scenes with Jon Pertwee.
I hope we will see you react to the 60th too
This is a densely layered one and one you definitely have to think about. There are also a ton of references to Victorian literature, including Alice in Wonderland, Pygmalion, Dracula, Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, Heart of Darkness, Punch cartoons of apes in human clothing and probably many more I'm forgetting. "Tricky things, mammoths." is possibly my all time favorite throwaway line in Doctor Who
Oh I love that line!
Basic plot: 3 squabbling god-like aliens land a spaceship in the basement of a house in Victoria Britain. Light, Survey and Control. Light is trying to catalogue all the species on the planet and is getting annoyed that they keep evolving and wants to halt the evolution so his catalogue is correct. Survey sees evolution as an amusing thing for him play with. He changes form (into Josiah) and enjoys stirring up trouble like serving primordial soup for dinner and regressing evolution deniers back to primates. Control is the only one who seems to respect evolution and embraces it. Consequently, she is the most successful at integrating herself into the society and being accepted.
The whole thing is about accepting and embracing change. Ace accepting how her best friend being attacked by racists changed her, but mainly (as it's Cartmel) having a go at the Tories in 80s Britain, whom he saw as being against progress (Section 28 for example). Victorian Britain becomes a metaphor for the polished veneer of Tory society, hiding all its problems under the surface.
Close... but missing a few steps.... (Think Nimrod and Redfers Fenn)
I'll give the full run down once @MarieClaire has posted the last episode.
@@raybearoz There’s obviously a lot more, but I was trying to give an overview in a paragraph. The rest is mostly just Survey (Josiah) trying to take over (like brainwashing Redvers into assassinating the monarch). Nimrod is just a sample they collected (like the policeman).
@@raybearozYou don't have to wait. She's way ahead on Patreon. I think she's even finished with "Survival!"
When I first saw this at the time as a kid, I really enjoyed it, but didn't know what was going on.
When I got the DVD decades later, I really enjoyed it, but didn't know what was going on.
I then watched it with the audio commentary, and Platt's comments made it completely click for me. I adore Ghost Light, one of my all-time favourites now.
Gonna have to do that myself I've seen this story a fair few times and I still don't know what's going on 🤣
Same with me. Took many watches to get a handle on it.
Have never thought about watching with the commentary - I'll have to give that a go. I feel I understand most of it... well... you know... a reasonable amount of it... well... but yeah... could use more!
I still chuckle at 'Tricky things, Mammoths...'.
Ghost Light has some fun exchanges between two people who are bonkers in different ways. The "Is it appropriate to seek your wisdom?" conversation between Nimrod and Redvers is another good one.
Ghost Light is a simple story but it's told in a very obscure way.
You are spot on when you say you need to see then end and go back... .This story has so much in it. Once you've had time to read comments, go back and watch it again... there are so many single liners that now make sense, and the story is even more enjoyable.
I once read someone's comment on this that "Ghostlight is the first Doctor Who story made for the video age. You need to go back and watch it again and again to understand"
This is fantastic science fiction at it's best
As many have said, it helps to watch this story twice. I was unable to see it when it aired, and I read the Target novelisation before I saw a recording of the TV version several years later. The novelisation is fantastic, and really helps make sense of the TV version.
That’s Ghost Light for you! It’s my #2 story in the McCoy era and probably in Doctor Who overall but it’s a *lot*. Capturing something of its vibes in something I write is a big goal of mine.
As someone who enjoys surrealism, I don't mind an obscure or even a nonsensical plot, provided what I'm watching is stimulating, atmospheric and well-executed. Ghost Light ticks all those boxes for me, and I love it :)
I watched this one drunk the first time and adored it. It has a really amazing theme that’s a lovely undercurrent to all this.
It’s one of those stories where you have to really pay attention to what’s going on. But it is known for being a hard one to follow.
This is the story, not to go into “blind.” It’s one of those stories wth many layers, but worth the effort.
Evolution. It is chaotic and resist being cataloged in an orderly manner. It changes😮
This story is a masterpiece. The truly bonkers sci-fi plot, the acting and performance choices (some quite odd, but it actually works to make it more surreal and gothic), and the dialogue is witty and layered. Took me quite a few rewatches over the years to figure it all out (and the literary references), and it was still enjoyable each time.
It's genuinely cerebral, sophisticated Dr Who while still being hugely entertaining.
I love the dialogue in this story - I think this is there first time I caught what Ace was saying when she said, in response to breakfast she's presented with, that it's cholesterol city" and the maid, misunderstanding her, corrects her and says "No, Perivale village:
If ever a story were written to make you go, "What the bloody hell is going on?" this is it
Ghost Light is one where it helps to read the novelization by Marc Platt. Lots of added bits & explanation by the author.
Ooh I love your headband! ❤
Here is the plot: The doctor and Ace arrive in a house in 1883 and then the plot goes through the looking-glass. It's totally brilliant but it really needs repeated viewings. Clever, clever stuff
Ghost Light is one of my favourite stories and it is so full, of mysteries and the guest cast are awesome as well.
I think this should have been a 4-parter really as there’s just so much going on. But I do love it.
Memories of saying WTAF out loud every episode!
Basics:
"Light" was an alien creature that traveled to planets to catalogue life there. He had two servants named Survey and Control who could evolve. Like a experiment control, the Control character would stay on the Ship whilst Survey would go out and evolve into a planets highest life form.
Eventually they came to Earth, and Light took specimens. But eventually Light went into hibernation and Survey trapped Light there. Survey trapped Control in the cellarand went up and started to evolve, starting as a Bug creature and evolving into Josiah. Josiah essentially takes over Gabriel Chase, enslaves everyone, and wants to gain power. But Josiah is also scared of Light getting released, as Light is essentially his boss. The rest comes out in Part 3...
I think the central problem for viewers - even now - is that you have to be picking up on ideas all the time to make sense of it. And from that perspective it doesn't feel like a show going out early evening in the kind of entertainment format that it seemed to occupy in the previous two years. Certainly there's no tinsel around the set! Obviously, that's a boon for fans watching today in the Blu-Ray/Streaming age. But, of course, back then it was 'one and done'.
Excellent story, ❤ so different from any style that the producer John Nathan Turner had done before. No bubblegum, froth, rose tinted specs and so deeply woven
Its a good one
Some Doctor Who stories are just plain weird: The Edge of Destruction, The Mind Robber, Warriors' Gate and this
@12:20 Nooooooooooooo! You can't ever do that, surely?! Please?!
That's like finding out the *** dunnit! :p
;)
Loved this story when it first came out. Still do. ;)
Just rewatched this whole story earlier and yes it is confusing, however, from subsequent viewings you start to understand it more and more. I could tell you what it’s about and how it ends, but no spoilers allowed.
I had to watch this about half a dozen times or so before I began to understand what was supposed to be going on.
I love Nimrod
Ghost Light takee multiple watches to understand. My first viewing I loved the atmosphere but couldnt underdtand it at all.
I watched the dvd special feature where the cast didnt understand it it.
Basicially (and given you are now wilderness years)
The Nimrod, Control and Josiah work for light catalogging all life amd Josiah evolved with forms from the planet and the husks were his old bodies.
Josiah wanted freedom so trapped.light and comtrol and wants them to stay down there.
Control also wants freedom
Pritchard I assume was then sister of Josiah wife explaining Qwenderline calling him uncle. He has an obession with sending people to Java.
Light doesnt like evolution a d wants things to stay as they are.
Thats basically what I underatand from this one. Feel like it could have beem a 4 parter explaining half the stuff going on.
As a story its too all pver the place and complicated but unlike Silver Nemesis the atmosphere of this one is amazing
I can sympathise with your bewilderment, as it is very difficult to get a handle on what is going on. Large chunks of explanatory dialogue in Marc Platt’s original scripts had to be cut for time, and that makes it much harder to follow. As you say, the acting is very good, and a couple of the guest stars had been in the show before. Michael Cochrane, who plays Redvers Fenn-Cooper, was in Black Orchid, and Frank Windsor (the police inspector) had previously appeared in The King’s Demons. He was best known to the public for playing another policeman, John Watt, in the long-running BBC drama Z Cars and its various spin-offs.
Michael Cochrane played a very love to hate character in Sharpe.
As saw this dr who back home NZ as a 10 year old boy back in 1989 I was confused as a 44 year man 2023 i am still confused about story. I have watch a few times in between
One of the better late stories 👻💡
Someone tell me the plot because I don't know it - sums up this story!
How I wish the cuts hadn’t removed so much key dialogue. Oh to have the luxury of time…
I understand it's to do with evolution and there are some nice elements to it atospherically. It was heavily edited and as a result makes it very confusing. I think it's a shame in order to completely understand this story you need to see the full unedited version or listen to the running commentary whilst watching. Neither my husband and I enjoy it enough to want to do either. Glad you are finding something of interest to enjoy watching it though.
I'd like to think I understand the story, then realise I'm trying to feel clever.
That’s precisely what I was just thinking..
And I’ve watched it literally countless times
We got to see a meta parody of DW in Greatest Show; then we got to see UNIT, the Brigadier, and Bessie again. Now we get to see an absolutely bonkers episode showing how wild DW can be. It doesn't help that the script was planned originally as a 4 parter and then had to be edited to three parts. A lot of explanatory material was lost. But it doesn't really matter. It's a train wreck, but you can't look away. And you can't forget.
Good story but my least favourite of this season which is a very strong season
It’s a very clever, erudite and layered story but it’s totally overrated by many. It represents to me a lot of the issues I have with Seventh Doctor era - overly complex plot, a bit too stylised, McCoy’s acting, trying to be too clever and not quite pulling it off.
I am surprised you still don't understand it.
Yeah…I really hate this story it’s always been one of the worst of the classic series. It’s overly grim with nothing really making sense it’s a lot of just things happening for no reason. It honestly is kind fun ti watch and laugh at honestly.
Oh good, I'm not the only one who hates it