Thanks for this advise! I had my own thoughts on that too because I want to build my CBG with the action for easy slide but also for comfortable fretting.
I am in the middle of building my first cbg and im so glad i saw this video today! Im planning to put in the frets tonight and this changed my plan of action!
Elf helper sir del alot...this is a hard lesson I myself learned on my very own brick house guitar and I'll admit I wanted to follow your first b/h build,but when I finished my neck I noticed what I had done but didn't realize what you just said,,,tone,,,pitch,,,intonation....thank you,merry Xmas to you an family.
Thanks for the heads up I'm having this exact issues with mine and have been trying to picture exactly what you said in this video so thanks for sharing information Brother now My mind can move to what ever comes up next keep up the good work
Thanks Dell that was fascinating and that's why you're the best of all the CBG guys! I've learned most of my skills by watching you I can't tell you how much I appreciate everything I've learned. You are a Godsend to people that want to create and learn and build their own guitars, thank you very much.
Another awesome tip. I've had some cigar boxes lying around for a while and I think it's finally time. Heading to the hardware store on Monday to get me some supplies.
If it's out of wack, you can probably just change the nut/bridge height/position to compensate. Or, if it's way out, just capo the strings at the first fret.
Pretty much common sense. The zero fret has to be placed so that the highest portion of the fret lines up with the back edge of the nut layout marker of the template. The measurements for the remaining frets are from the back edge of the nut marking on the layout jig.
@@PuckettCigarBoxGuitar I'm only on my 2nd CBG, but your vids and info have been a bigger help than any others. Thanks again and keep"em coming. Happy New Year
I am building a Rick Turner replica and considering a zero fret. This video was helpful. Aren't you shortening the scale length that will just be adjusted when intonating?
Thanks Del, I'm about to make my first fretboard tomorrow, so this advise is invaluable. one thing that i am a little unsure of though is, do I still need a nut as well as a zero fret to keep my strings spaced correctly? All the best.
I'm not sure if mine is a fluke but I don't have this problem. Maybe when I lined up my 0 fret I was off a hair in the right direction lol. I used the mini saw with the sled too. I copied some other dudes sled on UA-cam but I should have copied yours. I think yours is better 😊
Nice tip Del. Could you give us the exact distance between the zero fret and the first fret. I use a bone nut so I may have to shorten my fret board a little.
it will be different depending the action and the scale length.... that's why i just "FUDGE" a fraction ( the thickness of the fretsaw blade :-) if you want more info GOOGLE the Buzz Feiten tuning system - there's LOADS of technical information there to be had
@@PuckettCigarBoxGuitar Thank you so much for the information I will definitely watch your videos by the way thank you so much for all the content it has been so helpful and so interesting you’re in an incredible player
Del, serious question - I just fitted the frets to my CBG neck last night. Are you saying that when complete my CBG will be out of tune? I've just followed the standard advice about nut positioning on the internet. Tx.
If you are using a nut, you can do a few things: 1) remove the nut, trim the end of the fretboard, replace the nut. 2) Add a bit of material to the front of the nut 3) Ignore it and have fun with your guitar and do better on your next one! If you are using a zero fret, you can fill the slot and move it. The fret should cover the repair.
I may be mistaken, someone let me know, but I would think that these templates are "technically" accurate or mathematically accurate. Meaning it probably doesn't take nut/bridge height into consideration. Therefore, the accommodation has to be taken by the luthier. The guitar that goes sharp would sound just fine with a capo just above the first fret, but then it would be "tuned" one step sharp (i.e. to F rather than E). That's why the "tune it flat, and avoid the open strings" tactic works. Cutting deeper nut slots and/or lowering the bridge height, thus lowering the action, would also solve this, but let you tune correctly. The bending that occurs is because the strings are not in the same plane as the frets. When the string is raised slightly to remove fret buzz, it creates the problem of bending the sound sharp. The higher the action, the more this will occur. Just for example sake, a string that floats 1/32" above the frets is going to be flatter (i.e. more accurate) than a string that floats a 1/2" above the frets. Pulling the string in that 1/2" causes more tension than pulling it in 1/32". The bending can be reduced by cutting a nut and/or saddle deeper to reduce string height (the "action" of the guitar). Or, the nut/zero fret can be brought closer, which technically flattens everything, because it gives the string slack, which means less tension. Technically speaking, I'm pretty sure that you could have half inch action, as long as you adjust the placement of the nut much farther from the first fret. (Action that high might require adjustment of every fret, but it's just an example) So, in conclusion, if all the notes are sharp compared to the open string, then the nut is too tall, or too far away from the first fret. You could probably test this out by cutting a long neck, and installing all the frets obviously too far from where the nut should be. Don't install a nut. Put a place holder above the first fret where the nut should be. The height of that place holder will cause a certain sharpness at the fretted notes compared to the open string. If you move the nut forward or backward, you'll get varying degrees of sharpness (or flatness if it's too close) from the position of the nut. Changing the nut height will change this too. Dowels of different diameters would probably work well for this. The idea, if you're building your own instrument, would be to adjust the position and height of the nut to what you find comfortable for your playing. If you like low action, a zero fret slightly inside from the nut marker will work, but if you like high action, a taller nut farther away should work. I hope this helps.
This is only a problem with medium to high actions, am I correct? I realise any bending of the string will result in some tuning error but if the action is low it is negligible?
@@PuckettCigarBoxGuitar I am happy that you mistake professional perfection for OCD, it helps me believe you are human after all. Then again. why do you have to be? ;-)
Edit: this post got a bit convoluted, so I rewrote it... sorry if you read it before my edit... I think this makes it cleaner... mostly... To answer your question... Sort of... from a certain perspective... Think of it from the perspective of the #2 guitar... Open is dead on, but the others are sharp. By moving that nut in, you're shortening the string and making it slightly sharp, maybe, but that's only if the string tension stays the same, and the fret slides under it... but then it would match all the other strings. You'd then adjust string tension with the tuners to flatten everything, and all the notes would adjust and everything is now on pitch. Does that make sense? It's something like that. As he said, it's similar to, but inverse of, just moving each fret up the neck a tiny bit. This would flatten all the other frets just a bit, meaning they'd be in tune. The importance is not really the change in overall scale, but rather that you're bringing all the frets into correct relation to each other, and thus, flattening the sharps when tuning is restored. I may not be explaining it quite right... Someone help me out here. :)
Recently became interested in cigar box guitars and just saw the video where you laid out the fret spacing in MMs with the yardstick. Is the measurement from the nut position included in your statement here?
Thanks for this advise!
I had my own thoughts on that too because I want to build my CBG with the action for easy slide but also for comfortable fretting.
That brick house is sweet ! nice build !
That was VERY kind of you. Thank you, and Merry Christmas to you and yours and all of your subscribers!
I am in the middle of building my first cbg and im so glad i saw this video today! Im planning to put in the frets tonight and this changed my plan of action!
I just got my fretting supplies last week. Your timing with this video is perfect! Thanks Del!👍😎
“this is not snow... it’s sawdust”
Glad I saw this, just getting ready to cut the zero fret slot in the center of the template nut location!!
Merry Christmas Del,
Thanks again for sharing some of your considerable Mojo
Great tip! Thanks for the present!
merry Christmas Steve !!
How did I miss this video for the last two years? Great info Del, I've done a couple of zero frets, really should do it all the time.
Thanks for the great tip Del, that will help my first build a lot, happy holidays to you and your family.👍
Just made my first neck and have the same zero fret issue. Will try this next time. Thanks!
Elf helper sir del alot...this is a hard lesson I myself learned on my very own brick house guitar and I'll admit I wanted to follow your first b/h build,but when I finished my neck I noticed what I had done but didn't realize what you just said,,,tone,,,pitch,,,intonation....thank you,merry Xmas to you an family.
Thanks for the heads up I'm having this exact issues with mine and have been trying to picture exactly what you said in this video so thanks for sharing information Brother now My mind can move to what ever comes up next keep up the good work
Love how you share your knowledge Del thanks i will try that hope your good.
Thanks Dell that was fascinating and that's why you're the best of all the CBG guys! I've learned most of my skills by watching you I can't tell you how much I appreciate everything I've learned. You are a Godsend to people that want to create and learn and build their own guitars, thank you very much.
Another awesome tip. I've had some cigar boxes lying around for a while and I think it's finally time. Heading to the hardware store on Monday to get me some supplies.
Thanks for the present and the future 😂 see what I did there 🤣👍 I needed that info 🙏
Thanks Dell! The sharps
on my guitar were driving me nuts! I'll give this a go on the new neck I'm putting together!
Merry Christmas Del you have changed my life ❤️❤️❤️to you and your family
you are too kind Mike !!!
Great tip, it makes perfect sense.
Great tip. Thanks again. 👍🏽🇦🇺
That fixed my main issue on my builds, thank you!!
Great tip👍
Oh no... I bet I’ve got mine jacked up... I’ll know in a few weeks when I get a chance to finish my first CBG! Cheers and Merry Christmas!
If it's out of wack, you can probably just change the nut/bridge height/position to compensate. Or, if it's way out, just capo the strings at the first fret.
I like the color of that fretboard thanks for the tip
the ad after the video was for Giddy's ED device!
Happy holidays
So much love everybody
⛄❄ 🎅 I dont know what to tell ya del you guys could pass off as brothers😂👍
Pretty much common sense. The zero fret has to be placed so that the highest portion of the fret lines up with the back edge of the nut layout marker of the template. The measurements for the remaining frets are from the back edge of the nut marking on the layout jig.
But he's talking about the nut too.
Ho ho ho, Merry Christmas!
Groovy
Hey have you ever considered doing a live video with helping a beginner build a cigar box guitar ?
👍😎
What do you tell a child about Santa if they ask?
Santa is real, he lives in the hearts of anyone that wants to believe!
Great tip Del, thank you. And what timing... I'll be cutting frets in my neck next week.
You’re welcome
@@PuckettCigarBoxGuitar I'm only on my 2nd CBG, but your vids and info have been a bigger help than any others. Thanks again and keep"em coming. Happy New Year
SP4313 happy new year to you as well!!!
I am building a Rick Turner replica and considering a zero fret. This video was helpful.
Aren't you shortening the scale length that will just be adjusted when intonating?
scale length will be measured from the zero fret to the saddle
Wow it makes sense
Thanks Del, I'm about to make my first fretboard tomorrow, so this advise is invaluable. one thing that i am a little unsure of though is, do I still need a nut as well as a zero fret to keep my strings spaced correctly?
All the best.
Del uses the term "zero fret" as a substitute for the traditional word "nut", in part (I think) because he uses a jumbo fret as his nut material.
Great idea! How long have you been doing this? I’m going to try it. Probably Not as much an issue with nylon strings, though.
Still applies to nylon strings.
I'm not sure if mine is a fluke but I don't have this problem. Maybe when I lined up my 0 fret I was off a hair in the right direction lol. I used the mini saw with the sled too. I copied some other dudes sled on UA-cam but I should have copied yours. I think yours is better 😊
Nice tip Del. Could you give us the exact distance between
the zero fret and the first fret. I use a bone nut so I may have
to shorten my fret board a little.
it will be different depending the action and the scale length.... that's why i just "FUDGE" a fraction ( the thickness of the fretsaw blade :-) if you want more info GOOGLE the Buzz Feiten tuning system - there's LOADS of technical information there to be had
@@PuckettCigarBoxGuitar Thanks an Merry Christmas
What can I do if I already have the zero fret installed? Ie: I bought a finished neck. And it has a dual action truss rod.
just reposition the saddle to get harmonic to line up over the fret
May I ask What size saw blade do you have on the Mighty Might for fretting? Thanks
.023 kerf. i have several videos explaining the set up in detail
@@PuckettCigarBoxGuitar Thank you so much for the information I will definitely watch your videos by the way thank you so much for all the content it has been so helpful and so interesting you’re in an incredible player
Del, serious question - I just fitted the frets to my CBG neck last night. Are you saying that when complete my CBG will be out of tune? I've just followed the standard advice about nut positioning on the internet. Tx.
If you are using a nut, you can do a few things: 1) remove the nut, trim the end of the fretboard, replace the nut. 2) Add a bit of material to the front of the nut 3) Ignore it and have fun with your guitar and do better on your next one!
If you are using a zero fret, you can fill the slot and move it. The fret should cover the repair.
🎅🎅🎅..…😊
Question: why wouldn't the fretboard be measured to accommodate for this distortion of, or "bending" of the strings?
I may be mistaken, someone let me know, but I would think that these templates are "technically" accurate or mathematically accurate. Meaning it probably doesn't take nut/bridge height into consideration. Therefore, the accommodation has to be taken by the luthier. The guitar that goes sharp would sound just fine with a capo just above the first fret, but then it would be "tuned" one step sharp (i.e. to F rather than E). That's why the "tune it flat, and avoid the open strings" tactic works. Cutting deeper nut slots and/or lowering the bridge height, thus lowering the action, would also solve this, but let you tune correctly.
The bending that occurs is because the strings are not in the same plane as the frets. When the string is raised slightly to remove fret buzz, it creates the problem of bending the sound sharp. The higher the action, the more this will occur. Just for example sake, a string that floats 1/32" above the frets is going to be flatter (i.e. more accurate) than a string that floats a 1/2" above the frets. Pulling the string in that 1/2" causes more tension than pulling it in 1/32".
The bending can be reduced by cutting a nut and/or saddle deeper to reduce string height (the "action" of the guitar). Or, the nut/zero fret can be brought closer, which technically flattens everything, because it gives the string slack, which means less tension. Technically speaking, I'm pretty sure that you could have half inch action, as long as you adjust the placement of the nut much farther from the first fret. (Action that high might require adjustment of every fret, but it's just an example) So, in conclusion, if all the notes are sharp compared to the open string, then the nut is too tall, or too far away from the first fret.
You could probably test this out by cutting a long neck, and installing all the frets obviously too far from where the nut should be. Don't install a nut. Put a place holder above the first fret where the nut should be. The height of that place holder will cause a certain sharpness at the fretted notes compared to the open string. If you move the nut forward or backward, you'll get varying degrees of sharpness (or flatness if it's too close) from the position of the nut. Changing the nut height will change this too. Dowels of different diameters would probably work well for this.
The idea, if you're building your own instrument, would be to adjust the position and height of the nut to what you find comfortable for your playing. If you like low action, a zero fret slightly inside from the nut marker will work, but if you like high action, a taller nut farther away should work.
I hope this helps.
@@NeoRichardBlake Would be nice if someone invented a nut that could adjust in both directions.
I don't buy the disclaimer, you are santa Claus! BTW, what is the thickness of the saw blade in the Mighty Mite?
This is only a problem with medium to high actions, am I correct? I realise any bending of the string will result in some tuning error but if the action is low it is negligible?
The problem is definitely more obvious with high action... I prefer a medium action so it’s less obvious but still a problem for my OCD
@@PuckettCigarBoxGuitar I am happy that you mistake professional perfection for OCD, it helps me believe you are human after all. Then again. why do you have to be? ;-)
wouldnt it make open strings sharp?
Edit: this post got a bit convoluted, so I rewrote it... sorry if you read it before my edit... I think this makes it cleaner... mostly...
To answer your question... Sort of... from a certain perspective... Think of it from the perspective of the #2 guitar... Open is dead on, but the others are sharp. By moving that nut in, you're shortening the string and making it slightly sharp, maybe, but that's only if the string tension stays the same, and the fret slides under it... but then it would match all the other strings. You'd then adjust string tension with the tuners to flatten everything, and all the notes would adjust and everything is now on pitch. Does that make sense? It's something like that. As he said, it's similar to, but inverse of, just moving each fret up the neck a tiny bit. This would flatten all the other frets just a bit, meaning they'd be in tune. The importance is not really the change in overall scale, but rather that you're bringing all the frets into correct relation to each other, and thus, flattening the sharps when tuning is restored. I may not be explaining it quite right... Someone help me out here. :)
Who you callin a ho? :) Seriously though, good tip on shifting every so slightly the zero fret.
Recently became interested in cigar box guitars and just saw the video where you laid out the fret spacing in MMs with the yardstick. Is the measurement from the nut position included in your statement here?