I spent so much time riding no handed I just removed them completely. Now my hands are never tired, my bike is even lighter & no one can argue with me about why their handlebar preference is the best for everyone. Win.
I have yet to find anything that works for me as well as some kit from 1989. All the options are race solutions for very specific kinds of competition, wiggled around to where they can pretend to be practical. Even looking at the demo video, it's a downhill race with a loaded bike, something only superman, a UA-cam content creator, or a fool would do in the middle of nowhere. No one discusses how a super wide bar really only makes sense for someone in the RedBull body position. Nor do they discuss how extra wide has the same effect on your back and chest as greater drop, and how drop bars extend the reach unless the stem compensates. It's foolish to use bar ends when brake levers aren't reachable, but no one discusses the obvious solution of L-shaped levers like were available 30 years ago, because it doesn't look pro. If the bend and upsweep of some of these bars works for you, great, but I don't know people whose wrists are in a strong position when cocked like that. I know it sounds like griping, but the bike industry is paying attention to the wrong things for most people's needs.
I agree. Flat all the way. Don't get me wrong, I've been a roadie for 50 years, 30 of that Randonneuring and I did almost all of that with highly flared drop bars (which used to be called 'rando bars', BTW). When you ride all day, different positions is important and if you are riding into the wind, riding on the drops is good. But as you said 'riding downhill on chunky roads with drop bars' is not fun.. I always thought drop bars on gravel bikes was really a bad idea, engendered I guess by some sense of originating from cyclocross bikes. Anyway I find that a flat bar with bull horns gives me all the positions I need and all the leverage. Unlike probably everyone I put my stubby bullhorns INSIDE the brake levers and not at the bar ends. I don't need more leverage and that gives me a more aerodynamic position if needed for headwinds or tarmac. I can also transition to the brake levers much faster than with outboard bullhorns. Sometimes you have to slow down fast. Everyone should try that. On trails I am mainly an the bar, but on tarmac I'm usually on the bullhorns. But I do switch on long stretches.
Hello Barry, Thank you for that comment. I've been a roadie for approximately forty years and have expanded into gravel and light mountainbiking over the last few years, with no loss of love for the road though. My wife's road bike has a flat bar (because she's a bit uncomfortable about drop bars) and I did indeed put bar ends inside the brake levers. Now I have a mountainbike on order for myself, which I intend use for a demanding ride later this year. I was thinking to put bar ends, on the inside again, but I'm still wondering whether I should shorten the flat bar by 2 cm on either side, because I won't be riding 'acrobatic category' mountainbike trails and, as a roadie, think the standard mountainbike flat bar very wide. Do you have any thoughts on that? Kind regards, Garret
I chop off the bar ends as well as putting the bullhorns inside. Most bars are far to wide. But I am not a mountain biker. Maybe sometimes more leverage is required. I have never needed it..@@TribusMontibus
I live in tropical country. Riding my bike for days during wet season on mixed muddy, slippery stones, asphalt and dense sigletracks has become challenging as I grew old. I relied on my flatbar bike for years, but still want to ride my dropbar for more predictable routes.
I used flat-bar for almost 5 months in my city daily commuting and long distances and short distances mountain climbing week-ends. Then in the long runs of usage I do not feel comfortable anymore because of limited positions, only upright and a little bending of my elbows to relax my back and my hips. Then one time we met my friend and did 2 hours lapping of almost 1.5 kms. Oval tracks with an average speeds of 35-45 kms/hours. He is using his Road bike with drop bar and I using my Gravel bike with flat bar. Then we switched bikes and suddenly I discover how comfortable the handling of drop-bar. My back feeling relax when I leaning on for Aerodynamic position. I can also do upright position putting my both hands on-top of the flat-bar on the part of drop bar handle. I can also lean a bit for aerodynamic position, that so relaxing and comfortable by holding the STI handles. Then I can easily accelerate pedaling the bikes with freely exhaling and inhaling the air. The balance and positioning of my body on the bike is so comfortable. So from that experienced I decided to change my flat-bar to drop-bar. ‘Till now I am enoying using my Gravel bike for daily commuting in the city and long distances plain and mountainous roads ang gravels.
Best of both worlds? A wide dropbar attached to a bike with a long top tube and a short stem so you mitigate some of the control issues but keep the ergonomics and body position.
As a long time mountain biker, I prefer flat bars. The control and braking is just better for me. I do have one bike with a drop bar, which I use for my road and short-cut-on-dirt road riding. Since I'm less than 5'2" reach is always an issue. Therefore, I use 760mm bars on my mountain bike. Any wider and it moves me too far forward and is harder on my shoulders. I run either carbon or aluminum on my bikes. I actually really like the carbon bar as my wrists don't get as tired.
Nice to see someone struggle with the exact same thing as I do. Reach is an issue with Drop or bullhorn handlebars. Maybe not great with Jones bars either which are my "flatbar" of choise. I also use way narrower bars than the current handlebar fashion is. My Jones loopbar is 660mm and the cut version is 590mm. I like them both. Also my "roadbike" has 340mm bullhorn.
For flat bars, bar ends (quite unfashionable these days) are the key for different hand positions over long distances to prevent any numbness. Set them quite flat (about 30 degrees) and you have about four positions, not just two .For drop bars, use two layers of bar tape for comfort.
Currently using PNW Range flat bars with Ergon bar ends. I’ll swap grips to test different ones out. I’m so familiar with flats at this point it seems like drops would be too alien. Based on the survey though, it still looks like flats may be best if you only have one bar and one bike and want to ride comfortably on anything and everything that may come your way.
99% of gravel bikes are drop bar. I would love to see a flat bar gravel bike with some some kind of TT bar geo on the front when on the flat to get full aero 😜
Not really a gravel set up but a group of cyclists in the philippines are using MTBs with aerobars on their flat bars because MTB components are cheaper than road bikes.
I just bought a Noroc Search flat bar and added a fairly narrow comfort bar (630mm 35° sweep) with some GC grips and then added a set of clip on aeros. I don't think I could have any more versatility. It gives my back a different position (and a rest) as well as my hands :)
Not really aero bars, but take a look at SQ Lab Inner Barends -they give an additional hand position very similar to riding the hoods on drop bars (and allows you to reach the brake levers while in this position). I use this position a lot for long cruising on flat, smooth terrain.
I never knew I loved drops like I do now, until I got a Fargo with the Woodchipper bar. I’m short (and somewhat timid on rough stuff); the woodchipper gives me confidence and is sooooo comfy. I use all the hand positions on those long days including the drops which are at quite an angle.
I really do like the thumbs-forward orientation of my hands for long duration riding, but I prefer knuckles-forward for control. I've ended up with flat bars with some 1990's Onza bar ends placed inboard of the levers as a best compromise.
Thanks for the cool video. I recently picked up a "Poseidon Redwood" and the gear range on this drop bar gravel bike is really huge for a bike under $1000.
Just got one too. Love it, but had to swap the stem for a longer one with a rise on it - I'm a tall guy with long legs and the bar was just too low to be comfortable with the tiny flat stem it comes with.
Such controversy! It is an individuals choice of course, but I've used Ritchy Venturemax, Jones Loop Bars and the Salsa Moloko bars. The best I've used is the Moloko, by far. Good hand position options, great aero positions and it holds a handlebar bag and a Slap Bag at the same time.
Seems like have a steel handlebar would be best for bike touring because it could handle the added weight up front while providing shock absorbing capability at least I would think
The best handlebar is the one I did not buy yet ✌🏽 Jokes apart, it’s too much personal and due to the rest bike setup like gear (quality can be too expensive to afford) and some more stuff. I keep following your videos hoping to get a good hint and they always come. I’m a proud owner of a surly’s moloko bar … best solution for me.
I was a drop-bar guy and still prefer them on road and gravel bikes but for bike packing, a mountain bike with flat-bars plus Ergon grips and aero clamp-ons works great. Tons of hand positions.
Drop bar people: if you want the best of both worlds, check out the 60cm Walmer Bar... 75cm at the drops! I got into one of these earlier this year and now routinely ride rocky/techy singletrack on my drop bar bike. It gets you similar leverage to flat bars and able to use the full volume of a handlebar roll bag without it hitting the shifters. To my knowledge these are the widest drop bars on the market.
Loved seeing the survey results! Would you consider doing a video on drop bar positioning and fit for bikepacking? Should the drops be parallel to the ground or at an angle? My experience with road drops vs flared drops has revealed different types of comfort. Wonder what others think. Cheers!
My single speed came with a riser, about 600mm. I went for a slightly raised stem and rise bars with more length (cut to 750mm). I like the handling of flat or risers, it feels more predictable and comfortable. I've never had an issue with only one hand position. As for drop bars...I like having a more upright positon, not cruiser upright, but closer to cruiser than extreme race angle. Drop bars, unless I were to go for an extreme angle in the stem, would keep me leaning over more, especially while using drops. Drop bars are also too narrow doe me, or at least what I can find. Lastly, I don't like the look of drop bars. They are okay on a full race bike, but on a fixie/single speed, I think flat or risers are the best aesthetically
The answer is neither. The best choices are in the flatbar style, but are nowhere near flat. Jones H and Butterfly bars are the general consensus from the world touring community. Bullhorns and aero bars on any wide swept back handlebars are also quite popular and for good reasons. Drop bars are good for road and gravel, maybe some aero bikepacking if you're going for speed, mileage and bragging rights instead of comfort and good experience. It's a choice between looking back proud that you endured it, or with nostalgic joy for the experience. Yeah I'm biased 🤣 if you're going to be a weekend warrior then go ahead and make sacrifices to be able to do X or Y, but I and most people I've met in pilgrimages and long term tours eventually make it their lifestyle to go slow and easy, appreciate the ride, the view, the food etc.
The only thing that sucks on drops is braking control offroad. Even with great hydraulic brakes, you just can't do one-finger braking from the hoods, so you're forced to sacrifice control and use both middle and pointer fingers. I always get sore hands after riding drop bars offroad, not optimal. On pavement or gravel where you're descending in the drops you can absolutely use 1 finger braking and it's usually better for cornering stability on smoother surfaces. Even on sketchy fire road descents using the hoods isn't as bad since you're only seeking to bleed off some speed, not the same demands as singletrack. Having multiple hand positions on drops is a good benefit, but I will admit that my Jones H-bars are the most likely candidate for bikepacking. Much more comfortable for longer rides, but they don't work as well as true flat bars on chunky descents.
I've tried many handlebars including the Richie venturemax, whiskey Milhouse, salsa cowchipper, protaper 20/20, Jones loop. The most comfortable I found is the Tumbleweed bars using sq lab's innerbarends
@@BIKEPACKINGcom Didn't like the sweep on my Moloko bar so swapped out for a T-weed Persuader. Thought I'd miss the hand positions but with the right fit and bar, 1 is all you need. I won't say it's for everyone and I think the sweep is still more than I'd prefer in a perfect bar. But I've been using it with Ergon GA3s and it's the best I've felt. Comfortable and tons of real estate to festoon all your worldly possessions.
Thanks for sharing your handlebar history. What was your experience with the 20/20 bars?! They look really interesting to me, and at 182 grams, they are crazy lightweight.
I guess, one thing I should have mentioned in the video is most of those options do not offer a great climbing-friendly bailout gear, which is pretty important with steep climbs, a loaded rig and tired legs. Thanks for watching, Lucas.
Adding a double crankset opens a wider gear range. Easy to do with either SRAM or shimaNo. I actually run a Campy shifter/shimaNo rear derailleur I'm two of my dirtdrop bikes
I like my Wren PERSEVERANCE bars, flat bar for hill climbs and technical terrain, but with a triathlon style aero bar welded on to mount gear and to get low when riding fast or when ride into the wind
Started rideing when i was 4 years old with flat bars .I didnt try drops till i was about 13 .even at that age they hurt my back wrists and palms ,so a week later I went back to flats again. Im 65 in 3 weeks time and still rideing with flats so i dont think Ill change again now.
I always get hand numbness using drop bars but NEVER on MTB bars. When I decide on my next bike for bikepacking/all 'round it more likely than not will be full suspension because I love mountain biking. My current bars are Renthal Fat Bar carbon in 760mm, but I will be changing to more sweep and rise with a longer stem in the fall. Thanks!
I have been using surly truck stop drop bars with a 30mm rise they sit you up a bit and still have multiple hand positions. I have them on my Marin Gestalt 10 that I tour with.
4 bikes, only one with drop bars. The drop bar bike is my loaner, and my least favorite bike. Strangely my go-to favorite is a cargo bike. Slow, stable, fun, and ready to haul groceries at the drop of a text from the wife. Jones H-bars for life. At least for me drop bar have 3 positions, but I dislike all them. Also stupid is that drop bars on a bike almost always results in less tire clearance, and I like my plush plus and semi-plus sized tires.
When you talk about flat vs drop performance is important but hand and wrist positioning is important too. Flat bars promote tilting the hands backward to push the bars, putting a huge kink in your wrist. Riding drops with your hands on the hoods (where most people ride most of the time) is a much more natural position. To prove it let a hanging arm raise to your shoulder. Your hand will look like your going to shake somebody’s hand, fingers slightly curled, thumb inward. Much in the same way your hands rest on the hoods. People get carpal tunnel from typing in the position that is promoted by flats.
I think stem height is the real question. I always rise mine up using an extender. Low bars are too aggressive for long distance. Ride far and eat often 😎
I'm considering switched from flat bars to drops on my bike, and I'm not even sure if this is possible (or at least worthwhile). If anyone has any experience with converting their handlebars from flats to drops, I'd really appreciate some feedback.
I would love to know what things to consider when swapping between flat bars or drops on the same bike. How do make sure the reach works and that your bike does not become twitchy.
I use a narrow riser bar with TT bars added.. Gripshift MXR and an Alivio 3X8 having sold my SRAM SX Eagle 12spd XC8 and keeping my '13 OPUS ZERMATT with 11-40 on 650b 47 mullet rear and 203/180 mech. I have an 17-117 gear inch range and a small enough frame to bail out like a BMX allows.. My previous XC8 was a 2020.. before that a '09 Paragon.. 3x9 X-9
55cm Walmer on my old XC hardtail(light 29er). Just finished and got a few rides in, love it as a playful monster gravel bike. Test rode some gravel bikes including the Cannondale lefty and this is 1000% more comfortable and allot more capable off-road. Fox float 80mm (w/full lockout), 100mm dropper, 29x2.1 front & 700x50 rear, 26/38 and 11x40 di2 GRX/XTR mix. Noticeably faster then I was with 1x and flat bars on this bike. Di2 is amazing, glad I went that route but sucks it costs so much. Trails are too wet so haven't tried it in the single track yet, but excited to try. I have my trail full squish but sick of driving it to the trails and have road buddies so needed something.
Flat-bar cons: Typically so wide only a Pterodactyl can get any use from. Drop bar cons: Like most American cars, they're good if you intend on going straight. A flat-bar the same width as you're shoulders is the best of both worlds. Disclaimer: I've used both on almost every terrain (no cliff climbing or traversing on water) over the past 2 decades to deduce this.
Question to all: What handlebars would you use for a long trip (3500 miles), light packing, on mostly fire roads or gravel and occasionally asphalt? i.e. not very technical, no single track etc. (my current thinking is drop bars raised for flat bars like riding position). Thanks in advance!
Also worth mentioning is that you can fit much larger handle bar bags to a flat bar simply because drop bars are less wide. if you plan to stay a couple of weeks / months on the road that's sth to consider. Be sure the drop bar isnt bent like crasy this helps with mounting a battery light, smartphone etc. straight forward in riding direction.
Didn't watch video... let me guess, "It depends". Ok now I'll watch video, then edit response. You went total handlebar nerd, swerved back and forth across choices. Probably because, its a preference? You take litle time to explain the details and I definitely don't intuitively know what you're talking about. So basically you took all this time to say.. both.. within a reasonable margin.
I’m enjoying the bike so far ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxMesz3KOGEmwmvyKQfLfrRSUXLFzfVHZA My only real complaints are the brakes and the pedals. I feel like a bike designed for bigger people should have much larger pedals and more heavy duty brakes. I’ve only gotten two really good rides out of it, minimal downhill action, and the brakes feel like they’re already going out. A larger person has more momentum, so I think this wasn’t thought through very well. Also, I wear size 13-14 wide shoes. My feet cramp up on these pedals that are clearly made for smaller feet. Since I’m not a pro rider (and I don’t think many are who purchase this bike) I don’t think that the straps on the pedal are necessary at all. None of this takes away from the enjoyment I get from riding, however. I’ll just head to a bike shop to improve on a few things.
just finished building a BMC La Cabra and I fully embraced the drop bar MTB aspect of the frame. Initial impressions from a handling standpoint? I'm not goin fast enough on rough stuff for the advantage of a flat bar to matter, and personally I move my hands around constantly, so the multiple hand positions are certainly welcome. I will say one of the most frustrating aspects of building up a more rowdy drop bar rig is the lack of support from the industry. It was a pain in the ass to source/modify the parts that flat bar bikes enjoy in access(larger brakes, multiple dropper brands/types, wide range 12 speed drivetrains) and the lack of support for Installing these sorts of things makes it even more frustrating. In the end I'm happy with it, but if I had to do it over again I would probably just stick to flat bars and experiment with comfort aids.
Some alt bars, like the Jones H-Loop bar, let you get into an aero tuck with your forearms on the bars. So flat bars can actually be really good against headwinds!
I have the SQ Labs 30x 16 on my SS Mtn bike and love it. I tried a really wide Cowchipper on my gravel bike and found it too wide for my short arms. I have a Whiskey Parts gravel bar now that’s 460 width and a 80mm stem(previous was 90). I really think it’s about “fit” and of course some long miles of use. I go on at least 1 century ride a month and of course daily shorter rides. I choose my gravel (2x11 drive) with drop bars for my longer more groomed terrain mixed with pavement rides and my geared (1x11) or SS hardtail’s for more aggressive and shorter rides.
Dropbars have a pro appeal for irrational reasons and a neatly tucked away cable on recent bikes. Bikes are less expensive as well for same drive train components. Bull horns and bar ends ?
Drop bars all the way, for the road, single tracks, with or without flare. I just find them way more ergonomic and, weirdly enough, somewhat easier to control in almost all terrains. More subjectively, I also find them cooler to look at. :p
Hi, Thanks for very informative video. Does drop bar give trouble with your back after sometime as rider is in more aggressive bending position during ride. Please suggest
Hello, I'm from Brazil and I live in the state of Minas Gerais. Minas Gerais has a mountainous terrain and therefore I prefer flat handlebars with rear sweep. if you have the opportunity, come to Brazil and do the Caminho da Fé, it was inspired by the Caminho de Santiago de Compostela. In 2023 Caminho da Fé completed 20 years, you will be surprised. the Caminho da Fé is much harder than Compostela. I've done both and I could prove it
Definitely flat bars for all the reasons you mentioned. BUT ALAS the hard part is if you want 2x12 for flat bars. You have to front the exorbitant costs of electronic shifting if you want wide range road gearing. There’s no mechanical 2x12. Or go lower grade 2x11 mechanical shifting. Sheesh. The bike conglomerates have made it difficult to be economical as usual
I run a PNW Range 780mm aluminum handlebar. It has a 10° back sweep and 5° upsweep with a 30mm rise and feels really nice for me and my 6'5" body length. I also shortened my stem to 35mm, which puts me a bit more upright.
Never say Never but would Never go from Drops to Flats, so much more variation, comfort and control as far as I'm concerned with Drops, especially when there a good wide drop with good ergonomic design.... But again it's all a matter of preference I suppose ??
I ride gravel in Michigan all year, mostly in winter, Specialized Sawtooth 700x42s grip snowpack like studded tires, not on ice though. Drop bars with Bar Mitts is not good for shifting, or braking, I went to 750 flatbars, the wind was catching me too much, I now have 640s and may go narrower, I have Specialized Ned Overend bar ends, these bars about 7 inches wider then the dropbars that came on my Sequoia, I ride MTB mostly in warm weather, so the flatbars just feel like home.. I kept the 105 brake calipers, just putting new hand levers on, hoses worked, Shimano makes shifter for the flat bars that work with road deraileurs, easy change over, cost was less then replacing the obsolete RS 565 (105) right side shifter/brake that disintegrate.. should have done this long ago..
I spent so much time riding no handed I just removed them completely. Now my hands are never tired, my bike is even lighter & no one can argue with me about why their handlebar preference is the best for everyone. Win.
Brilliant, I’ll give it a shot.
Handy tip!
Definitely trying this the next time I go down a twisty, steep descent
You joke, but my nephew and his friends are really getting into unicycling.
@@atimholt who says I'm joking
I have yet to find anything that works for me as well as some kit from 1989. All the options are race solutions for very specific kinds of competition, wiggled around to where they can pretend to be practical. Even looking at the demo video, it's a downhill race with a loaded bike, something only superman, a UA-cam content creator, or a fool would do in the middle of nowhere. No one discusses how a super wide bar really only makes sense for someone in the RedBull body position. Nor do they discuss how extra wide has the same effect on your back and chest as greater drop, and how drop bars extend the reach unless the stem compensates. It's foolish to use bar ends when brake levers aren't reachable, but no one discusses the obvious solution of L-shaped levers like were available 30 years ago, because it doesn't look pro. If the bend and upsweep of some of these bars works for you, great, but I don't know people whose wrists are in a strong position when cocked like that. I know it sounds like griping, but the bike industry is paying attention to the wrong things for most people's needs.
I agree. Flat all the way. Don't get me wrong, I've been a roadie for 50 years, 30 of that Randonneuring and I did almost all of that with highly flared drop bars (which used to be called 'rando bars', BTW). When you ride all day, different positions is important and if you are riding into the wind, riding on the drops is good.
But as you said 'riding downhill on chunky roads with drop bars' is not fun.. I always thought drop bars on gravel bikes was really a bad idea, engendered I guess by some sense of originating from cyclocross bikes. Anyway I find that a flat bar with bull horns gives me all the positions I need and all the leverage. Unlike probably everyone I put my stubby bullhorns INSIDE the brake levers and not at the bar ends. I don't need more leverage and that gives me a more aerodynamic position if needed for headwinds or tarmac. I can also transition to the brake levers much faster than with outboard bullhorns. Sometimes you have to slow down fast. Everyone should try that. On trails I am mainly an the bar, but on tarmac I'm usually on the bullhorns. But I do switch on long stretches.
What are your views on Koga Denham bars?
I have no experience with them. I use 'butterfly' bars, not flat but with a rise at the front like the letter 'M'. @@elachichai
Hello Barry,
Thank you for that comment. I've been a roadie for approximately forty years and have expanded into gravel and light mountainbiking over the last few years, with no loss of love for the road though. My wife's road bike has a flat bar (because she's a bit uncomfortable about drop bars) and I did indeed put bar ends inside the brake levers. Now I have a mountainbike on order for myself, which I intend use for a demanding ride later this year. I was thinking to put bar ends, on the inside again, but I'm still wondering whether I should shorten the flat bar by 2 cm on either side, because I won't be riding 'acrobatic category' mountainbike trails and, as a roadie, think the standard mountainbike flat bar very wide. Do you have any thoughts on that?
Kind regards,
Garret
I chop off the bar ends as well as putting the bullhorns inside. Most bars are far to wide. But I am not a mountain biker. Maybe sometimes more leverage is required. I have never needed it..@@TribusMontibus
Exactly what I run. Flat bars + inner bar ends.
I think a lot of people assume being a serious cyclist means you need drops bars. But do what’s comfy for you!
People feel that drop bars are more professional or "advanced" or something.
I'm curious how age or health factors into this.
Lol... Cuz my 60yr.old back loves flat bars. 🤣
Drops on every bike except my full-sus.
Do experiment
Use drop bars on downhill
Use flat bars on road
The you'll get the answer.
I live in tropical country. Riding my bike for days during wet season on mixed muddy, slippery stones, asphalt and dense sigletracks has become challenging as I grew old. I relied on my flatbar bike for years, but still want to ride my dropbar for more predictable routes.
i would like to see a steering wheel of a car put on to a mtb
And would you ride/drive at 10 and 3 lol
@@aussierules3436 yep!
@@warrenzausa3145 I've seen it and it is hilarious, but I think it is best on the tall bikes.
In the late 60's, our paperboy had a bike with a banana seat and a steering wheel and at the time, I thought is was the best bike ever!
Here in the Philippines, we have passenger bikes and leisure bikes that utilize that idea.. sure is funny!
Generally prefer drop bars but turn upside down, so the drops are up. For me makes for a more upright seating position.
I used flat-bar for almost 5 months in my city daily commuting and long distances and short distances mountain climbing week-ends. Then in the long runs of usage I do not feel comfortable anymore because of limited positions, only upright and a little bending of my elbows to relax my back and my hips.
Then one time we met my friend and did 2 hours lapping of almost 1.5 kms. Oval tracks with an average speeds of 35-45 kms/hours. He is using his Road bike with drop bar and I using my Gravel bike with flat bar.
Then we switched bikes and suddenly I discover how comfortable the handling of drop-bar. My back feeling relax when I leaning on for Aerodynamic position. I can also do upright position putting my both hands on-top of the flat-bar on the part of drop bar handle. I can also lean a bit for aerodynamic position, that so relaxing and comfortable by holding the STI handles. Then I can easily accelerate pedaling the bikes with freely exhaling and inhaling the air. The balance and positioning of my body on the bike is so comfortable.
So from that experienced I decided to change my flat-bar to drop-bar. ‘Till now I am enoying using my Gravel bike for daily commuting in the city and long distances plain and mountainous roads ang gravels.
Best of both worlds? A wide dropbar attached to a bike with a long top tube and a short stem so you mitigate some of the control issues but keep the ergonomics and body position.
Whats a example of this?
As a long time mountain biker, I prefer flat bars. The control and braking is just better for me. I do have one bike with a drop bar, which I use for my road and short-cut-on-dirt road riding. Since I'm less than 5'2" reach is always an issue. Therefore, I use 760mm bars on my mountain bike. Any wider and it moves me too far forward and is harder on my shoulders. I run either carbon or aluminum on my bikes. I actually really like the carbon bar as my wrists don't get as tired.
Nice to see someone struggle with the exact same thing as I do. Reach is an issue with Drop or bullhorn handlebars. Maybe not great with Jones bars either which are my "flatbar" of choise. I also use way narrower bars than the current handlebar fashion is. My Jones loopbar is 660mm and the cut version is 590mm. I like them both. Also my "roadbike" has 340mm bullhorn.
For flat bars, bar ends (quite unfashionable these days) are the key for different hand positions over long distances to prevent any numbness. Set them quite flat (about 30 degrees) and you have about four positions, not just two .For drop bars, use two layers of bar tape for comfort.
Agree 100%. I've been mocked for the bar ends, but as you know, they are great for changing your hand positions while riding.
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Thanks for the support everyone!
Currently using PNW Range flat bars with Ergon bar ends. I’ll swap grips to test different ones out. I’m so familiar with flats at this point it seems like drops would be too alien. Based on the survey though, it still looks like flats may be best if you only have one bar and one bike and want to ride comfortably on anything and everything that may come your way.
99% of gravel bikes are drop bar. I would love to see a flat bar gravel bike with some some kind of TT bar geo on the front when on the flat to get full aero 😜
Not really a gravel set up but a group of cyclists in the philippines are using MTBs with aerobars on their flat bars because MTB components are cheaper than road bikes.
I just bought a Noroc Search flat bar and added a fairly narrow comfort bar (630mm 35° sweep) with some GC grips and then added a set of clip on aeros. I don't think I could have any more versatility. It gives my back a different position (and a rest) as well as my hands :)
Not really aero bars, but take a look at SQ Lab Inner Barends -they give an additional hand position very similar to riding the hoods on drop bars (and allows you to reach the brake levers while in this position). I use this position a lot for long cruising on flat, smooth terrain.
DROP BARS SUCK! Adventure flats are where it’s at for comfort and handling.
Flat bars with bar ends mounted inside the brake levers. Works great for all types of biking, including road biking.
I never knew I loved drops like I do now, until I got a Fargo with the Woodchipper bar. I’m short (and somewhat timid on rough stuff); the woodchipper gives me confidence and is sooooo comfy. I use all the hand positions on those long days including the drops which are at quite an angle.
I really do like the thumbs-forward orientation of my hands for long duration riding, but I prefer knuckles-forward for control. I've ended up with flat bars with some 1990's Onza bar ends placed inboard of the levers as a best compromise.
Thanks for the cool video. I recently picked up a "Poseidon Redwood" and the gear range on this drop bar gravel bike is really huge for a bike under $1000.
Just got one too. Love it, but had to swap the stem for a longer one with a rise on it - I'm a tall guy with long legs and the bar was just too low to be comfortable with the tiny flat stem it comes with.
Such controversy! It is an individuals choice of course, but I've used Ritchy Venturemax, Jones Loop Bars and the Salsa Moloko bars. The best I've used is the Moloko, by far. Good hand position options, great aero positions and it holds a handlebar bag and a Slap Bag at the same time.
I like having the hand position from which I can reach the brakes and shifters. That's not drop bars. On a road bike, sure, but not off-road, tyvm.
Try a flat bar, inboard bullhorns.
Seems like have a steel handlebar would be best for bike touring because it could handle the added weight up front while providing shock absorbing capability at least I would think
I see no benefit to using drop bars for anything but racing
The best handlebar is the one I did not buy yet ✌🏽
Jokes apart, it’s too much personal and due to the rest bike setup like gear (quality can be too expensive to afford) and some more stuff.
I keep following your videos hoping to get a good hint and they always come.
I’m a proud owner of a surly’s moloko bar … best solution for me.
So why are there so few flat bar gravel / bike packing options on the market. it seems 1 x and drop bar or the highway.
I was a drop-bar guy and still prefer them on road and gravel bikes but for bike packing, a mountain bike with flat-bars plus Ergon grips and aero clamp-ons works great. Tons of hand positions.
Drop bar people: if you want the best of both worlds, check out the 60cm Walmer Bar... 75cm at the drops! I got into one of these earlier this year and now routinely ride rocky/techy singletrack on my drop bar bike. It gets you similar leverage to flat bars and able to use the full volume of a handlebar roll bag without it hitting the shifters. To my knowledge these are the widest drop bars on the market.
Loved seeing the survey results! Would you consider doing a video on drop bar positioning and fit for bikepacking? Should the drops be parallel to the ground or at an angle? My experience with road drops vs flared drops has revealed different types of comfort. Wonder what others think. Cheers!
My single speed came with a riser, about 600mm. I went for a slightly raised stem and rise bars with more length (cut to 750mm). I like the handling of flat or risers, it feels more predictable and comfortable. I've never had an issue with only one hand position.
As for drop bars...I like having a more upright positon, not cruiser upright, but closer to cruiser than extreme race angle. Drop bars, unless I were to go for an extreme angle in the stem, would keep me leaning over more, especially while using drops.
Drop bars are also too narrow doe me, or at least what I can find.
Lastly, I don't like the look of drop bars. They are okay on a full race bike, but on a fixie/single speed, I think flat or risers are the best aesthetically
The answer is neither. The best choices are in the flatbar style, but are nowhere near flat. Jones H and Butterfly bars are the general consensus from the world touring community. Bullhorns and aero bars on any wide swept back handlebars are also quite popular and for good reasons. Drop bars are good for road and gravel, maybe some aero bikepacking if you're going for speed, mileage and bragging rights instead of comfort and good experience. It's a choice between looking back proud that you endured it, or with nostalgic joy for the experience.
Yeah I'm biased 🤣 if you're going to be a weekend warrior then go ahead and make sacrifices to be able to do X or Y, but I and most people I've met in pilgrimages and long term tours eventually make it their lifestyle to go slow and easy, appreciate the ride, the view, the food etc.
Moloko bar(!); Steel-Still don't trust Carbon-fiber for handlebars or other critical parts. Steel is Still real(!).
what about drop bar attached to suspension fork, essentially a gravel-cross
The only thing that sucks on drops is braking control offroad. Even with great hydraulic brakes, you just can't do one-finger braking from the hoods, so you're forced to sacrifice control and use both middle and pointer fingers. I always get sore hands after riding drop bars offroad, not optimal. On pavement or gravel where you're descending in the drops you can absolutely use 1 finger braking and it's usually better for cornering stability on smoother surfaces. Even on sketchy fire road descents using the hoods isn't as bad since you're only seeking to bleed off some speed, not the same demands as singletrack.
Having multiple hand positions on drops is a good benefit, but I will admit that my Jones H-bars are the most likely candidate for bikepacking. Much more comfortable for longer rides, but they don't work as well as true flat bars on chunky descents.
I've tried many handlebars including the Richie venturemax, whiskey Milhouse, salsa cowchipper, protaper 20/20, Jones loop. The most comfortable I found is the Tumbleweed bars using sq lab's innerbarends
That's valuable feedback, thanks for sharing. I think I need to jump on the Tumbleweed train. -Neil
@@BIKEPACKINGcom don't get me wrong, I actually love the Millhouse bars
@@BIKEPACKINGcom Didn't like the sweep on my Moloko bar so swapped out for a T-weed Persuader. Thought I'd miss the hand positions but with the right fit and bar, 1 is all you need. I won't say it's for everyone and I think the sweep is still more than I'd prefer in a perfect bar. But I've been using it with Ergon GA3s and it's the best I've felt. Comfortable and tons of real estate to festoon all your worldly possessions.
I'm currently using a Tumbleweed bar and love it
Thanks for sharing your handlebar history.
What was your experience with the 20/20 bars?!
They look really interesting to me, and at 182 grams, they are crazy lightweight.
.... what does the bar have to do with gear range? there's a million chainring / cassete combinations you can put on any STI-syle groupset
I guess, one thing I should have mentioned in the video is most of those options do not offer a great climbing-friendly bailout gear, which is pretty important with steep climbs, a loaded rig and tired legs. Thanks for watching, Lucas.
Adding a double crankset opens a wider gear range. Easy to do with either SRAM or shimaNo. I actually run a Campy shifter/shimaNo rear derailleur I'm two of my dirtdrop bikes
I like my Wren PERSEVERANCE bars, flat bar for hill climbs and technical terrain, but with a triathlon style aero bar welded on to mount gear and to get low when riding fast or when ride into the wind
Started rideing when i was 4 years old with flat bars .I didnt try drops till i was about 13 .even at that age they hurt my back wrists and palms ,so a week later I went back to flats again. Im 65 in 3 weeks time and still rideing with flats so i dont think Ill change again now.
I always get hand numbness using drop bars but NEVER on MTB bars. When I decide on my next bike for bikepacking/all 'round it more likely than not will be full suspension because I love mountain biking. My current bars are Renthal Fat Bar carbon in 760mm, but I will be changing to more sweep and rise with a longer stem in the fall. Thanks!
ProTaper 20/20 bars.
I have been using surly truck stop drop bars with a 30mm rise they sit you up a bit and still have multiple hand positions. I have them on my Marin Gestalt 10 that I tour with.
and of course drop bar shifters are far more expsensive & restrictive in mix match brake/shifter brands...
4 bikes, only one with drop bars. The drop bar bike is my loaner, and my least favorite bike. Strangely my go-to favorite is a cargo bike. Slow, stable, fun, and ready to haul groceries at the drop of a text from the wife. Jones H-bars for life. At least for me drop bar have 3 positions, but I dislike all them. Also stupid is that drop bars on a bike almost always results in less tire clearance, and I like my plush plus and semi-plus sized tires.
When you talk about flat vs drop performance is important but hand and wrist positioning is important too. Flat bars promote tilting the hands backward to push the bars, putting a huge kink in your wrist. Riding drops with your hands on the hoods (where most people ride most of the time) is a much more natural position. To prove it let a hanging arm raise to your shoulder. Your hand will look like your going to shake somebody’s hand, fingers slightly curled, thumb inward. Much in the same way your hands rest on the hoods. People get carpal tunnel from typing in the position that is promoted by flats.
I think stem height is the real question. I always rise mine up using an extender. Low bars are too aggressive for long distance. Ride far and eat often 😎
I'm considering switched from flat bars to drops on my bike, and I'm not even sure if this is possible (or at least worthwhile). If anyone has any experience with converting their handlebars from flats to drops, I'd really appreciate some feedback.
I would love to know what things to consider when swapping between flat bars or drops on the same bike. How do make sure the reach works and that your bike does not become twitchy.
Same here. When my hand goes forward beyond the stem, does it make the steering more or less twitch? Thanks.
There’s no choice for me. Drops.
Just mounted the Surly Moloko, Have only done a 100 km with them, but they feel great. No hand numbness and more hand positions than I can use
I use a narrow riser bar with TT bars added.. Gripshift MXR and an Alivio 3X8 having sold my SRAM SX Eagle 12spd XC8 and keeping my '13 OPUS ZERMATT with 11-40 on 650b 47 mullet rear and 203/180 mech.
I have an 17-117 gear inch range and a small enough frame to bail out like a BMX allows.. My previous XC8 was a 2020.. before that a '09 Paragon.. 3x9 X-9
Drops, I had nerve damage and lost my sense of touch for about 2 months using a flat bar. After I transitioned to drops, never had the same problem.
how much do you ride, per session, and how often ?
Would it not be a mountain bike when you go to a flat bar
You can go bikepacking on a mountain bike. The kind of trip I like doing demands it.
55cm Walmer on my old XC hardtail(light 29er). Just finished and got a few rides in, love it as a playful monster gravel bike.
Test rode some gravel bikes including the Cannondale lefty and this is 1000% more comfortable and allot more capable off-road.
Fox float 80mm (w/full lockout), 100mm dropper, 29x2.1 front & 700x50 rear, 26/38 and 11x40 di2 GRX/XTR mix.
Noticeably faster then I was with 1x and flat bars on this bike. Di2 is amazing, glad I went that route but sucks it costs so much.
Trails are too wet so haven't tried it in the single track yet, but excited to try. I have my trail full squish but sick of driving it to the trails and have road buddies so needed something.
Flat bar with long bar ends. My favourite. Three positions for hands. Plus 2 transient positions. Bar ends covered with 2 layers of bar tape.
Flat-bar cons: Typically so wide only a Pterodactyl can get any use from.
Drop bar cons: Like most American cars, they're good if you intend on going straight.
A flat-bar the same width as you're shoulders is the best of both worlds.
Disclaimer: I've used both on almost every terrain (no cliff climbing or traversing on water) over the past 2 decades to deduce this.
Question to all: What handlebars would you use for a long trip (3500 miles), light packing, on mostly fire roads or gravel and occasionally asphalt? i.e. not very technical, no single track etc. (my current thinking is drop bars raised for flat bars like riding position). Thanks in advance!
Probably flats with bar ends for me. Trends and marketing muddy the water. Just depends on your experience and skill.
Riding to the ride plowing through spring winds 15 gusting to 25 knots is among the influences of my favoring the drop bar.
Also worth mentioning is that you can fit much larger handle bar bags to a flat bar simply because drop bars are less wide. if you plan to stay a couple of weeks / months on the road that's sth to consider. Be sure the drop bar isnt bent like crasy this helps with mounting a battery light, smartphone etc. straight forward in riding direction.
Didn't watch video... let me guess, "It depends". Ok now I'll watch video, then edit response.
You went total handlebar nerd, swerved back and forth across choices. Probably because, its a preference? You take litle time to explain the details and I definitely don't intuitively know what you're talking about. So basically you took all this time to say.. both.. within a reasonable margin.
I'd go with flat bars, there have been some designs for concealed braking to hide hoses/cables away.
I’m enjoying the bike so far ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxMesz3KOGEmwmvyKQfLfrRSUXLFzfVHZA My only real complaints are the brakes and the pedals. I feel like a bike designed for bigger people should have much larger pedals and more heavy duty brakes. I’ve only gotten two really good rides out of it, minimal downhill action, and the brakes feel like they’re already going out. A larger person has more momentum, so I think this wasn’t thought through very well. Also, I wear size 13-14 wide shoes. My feet cramp up on these pedals that are clearly made for smaller feet. Since I’m not a pro rider (and I don’t think many are who purchase this bike) I don’t think that the straps on the pedal are necessary at all. None of this takes away from the enjoyment I get from riding, however. I’ll just head to a bike shop to improve on a few things.
Neither. Alt bar. Wide like flats but with multiple hand positions like drop bars.
just finished building a BMC La Cabra and I fully embraced the drop bar MTB aspect of the frame. Initial impressions from a handling standpoint? I'm not goin fast enough on rough stuff for the advantage of a flat bar to matter, and personally I move my hands around constantly, so the multiple hand positions are certainly welcome. I will say one of the most frustrating aspects of building up a more rowdy drop bar rig is the lack of support from the industry. It was a pain in the ass to source/modify the parts that flat bar bikes enjoy in access(larger brakes, multiple dropper brands/types, wide range 12 speed drivetrains) and the lack of support for Installing these sorts of things makes it even more frustrating. In the end I'm happy with it, but if I had to do it over again I would probably just stick to flat bars and experiment with comfort aids.
in a place with lots of headwinds = drops
Some alt bars, like the Jones H-Loop bar, let you get into an aero tuck with your forearms on the bars. So flat bars can actually be really good against headwinds!
@@4336aaa Also if you’re on a descent they put you in a more stable position with more grip on the brakes
Flat-Straight bars🤘🐼
Rised bars with schock absorption are kinda best in my opinion, dropbars are hell for people with backpain
Can you change a marline 6 Gen 3 handle bar to a drop bar? I would like to see if I can change my handle bars.
Flat, definitively! - Drop bars are for racing bikes *only*!
Ok, now what is the best bar for us old, overweight. mixed use riders (Easy on the back please).
The biggest problem with drop bars is assessing the brakes. It tends to force you into the drops when you don’t want to be there
I have the SQ Labs 30x 16 on my SS Mtn bike and love it. I tried a really wide Cowchipper on my gravel bike and found it too wide for my short arms. I have a Whiskey Parts gravel bar now that’s 460 width and a 80mm stem(previous was 90). I really think it’s about “fit” and of course some long miles of use. I go on at least 1 century ride a month and of course daily shorter rides. I choose my gravel (2x11 drive) with drop bars for my longer more groomed terrain mixed with pavement rides and my geared (1x11) or SS hardtail’s for more aggressive and shorter rides.
The best handlebar is the one that you are most comfortable with especially when you have distance to do .
So, what handlebar is better? Answer - ask your shop assistant at bicycle shop.
Flatbar for me, ive tested the jones and bars with swep and they just gave me hurt in my wrists. So a ordinary flatbar is what i can go for.
Dropbars have a pro appeal for irrational reasons and a neatly tucked away cable on recent bikes. Bikes are less expensive as well for same drive train components.
Bull horns and bar ends ?
On long rides, my back tires and I set more weight on my hands. Hence my wrist hurts. What is the solution? Wrist orientation?
I have a few bikes with drop bars and flatbars, i like both
what bars are shows at 8:46?? i like the shape a lot.
Drop bars all the way, for the road, single tracks, with or without flare.
I just find them way more ergonomic and, weirdly enough, somewhat easier to control in almost all terrains.
More subjectively, I also find them cooler to look at. :p
What purple bar tape is that?
I use a salsa wood chipper and I love the flare.
Hi,
Thanks for very informative video.
Does drop bar give trouble with your back after sometime as rider is in more aggressive bending position during ride. Please suggest
How about raising the handle bars with a riser?
No love for flat bars with inner (not outer) bar ends?
Flat bars. You can do much more with them
Have you tried the SQ lab inner bar ends?
Fantastic add on for long rides, I've got them on both of my bikes
@@comandreja same here so good 😊
I bought them for my bike for a one week trip and they were 1mm too small for my bike :(
@@Alex-sr7op that’s a bummer mate! I’m really happy with mine!
45 degree sweep for everything.
@9:18 hahaha nice
Hello, I'm from Brazil and I live in the state of Minas Gerais. Minas Gerais has a mountainous terrain and therefore I prefer flat handlebars with rear sweep. if you have the opportunity, come to Brazil and do the Caminho da Fé, it was inspired by the Caminho de Santiago de Compostela. In 2023 Caminho da Fé completed 20 years, you will be surprised. the Caminho da Fé is much harder than Compostela. I've done both and I could prove it
Definitely flat bars for all the reasons you mentioned. BUT ALAS the hard part is if you want 2x12 for flat bars. You have to front the exorbitant costs of electronic shifting if you want wide range road gearing. There’s no mechanical 2x12. Or go lower grade 2x11 mechanical shifting. Sheesh. The bike conglomerates have made it difficult to be economical as usual
flat is simply better control on tech... i think its a must if you're mostly riding where there will be tech
Great video
Soma Dream Bars are "dreamy"! Ha!
I know I'm 2 years late to the conversation, but BUTTERFLY BARS ARE LIFE
I run a PNW Range 780mm aluminum handlebar. It has a 10° back sweep and 5° upsweep with a 30mm rise and feels really nice for me and my 6'5" body length. I also shortened my stem to 35mm, which puts me a bit more upright.
Never say Never but would Never go from Drops to Flats, so much more variation, comfort and control as far as I'm concerned with Drops, especially when there a good wide drop with good ergonomic design.... But again it's all a matter of preference I suppose ??
I ride gravel in Michigan all year, mostly in winter, Specialized Sawtooth 700x42s grip snowpack like studded tires, not on ice though. Drop bars with Bar Mitts is not good for shifting, or braking, I went to 750 flatbars, the wind was catching me too much, I now have 640s and may go narrower, I have Specialized Ned Overend bar ends, these bars about 7 inches wider then the dropbars that came on my Sequoia, I ride MTB mostly in warm weather, so the flatbars just feel like home.. I kept the 105 brake calipers, just putting new hand levers on, hoses worked, Shimano makes shifter for the flat bars that work with road deraileurs, easy change over, cost was less then replacing the obsolete RS 565 (105) right side shifter/brake that disintegrate.. should have done this long ago..
I know this is debated but I didn't expect the survey results to be ~50-50. I guess I'll have to go make my own decisions 😄
That's a cool mug btw