Jinhsi VS Changli Part 2! I WAS WRONG!
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
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8:15 biggest fact. The higher the enemy level, the more defense shred contributes to dmg. Changli was def meant for punching up against stronger bosses than punching down at weak mobs. So middle tower coded.
The ER changes for Changli also help a significant bit. In terms of multipliers, jinhsi has like a 4100% multiplier with her whole kit (no ult) max incan tacks, changli's rotation (w/ ult) outputs 4300% while giving herself dmg% and atk% from her kit. Although jinhsi outputs 5700% with ult, it seems much easier to build changli to ult every rotation compared to jinhsi. Really seems like she can outdps Jinhsi at s0 IF she manages to ult every rotation and assuming jinhsi doesnt.
Also, using the difference in dmg reduction calculation for defense:
Dmg dealt by Lvl 90 character attacking lvl 100 enemy:
Base - 48.8%
15% def ignore - 52.9% (8% effective dmg increase compared to base)
40% def ignore - 61.4% (25.7% effective dmg increase compared to base
55% def ignore - 68% (39% effective dmg increase from base)
The effective dmg increase from base is a final multiplier to the entire equation and there is absolutely no other source of def ignore/shred that can dilute this buff (absolutely 0 diminishing returns).
For those who wanna know the dmg reduction formula of defense:
Enemy DEF = 8 × Enemy Lvl + 792
Dmg reduction = ((800 + 8 × Character lvl) ÷ (800 + 8 x Character lvl + Enemy DEF × (1 - DEF ignore)))
THANK YOU BRO! I really appreciate the numbers and the time you took to explain it all even deeper! YES, she is gonna solo every TOA and Tac Holo boss im so excited!!!
She DOES out dps jinhsi at same investment level (my own calcs), only difference is that jinhsi can rotate out into sub dps' and the whole attacking off field shenanigans with zhezhi or yinlin and whatnot could bridge the gap but against higher level bosses, as you said, Changli is indesputed rn
I don't think Changli "shreds" defense. It says ignore. So while the DMG increase is same, it prolly only applies for herself. Well maybe I understood u wrong but I think this is how this works
That's how I understood it too. That pushes her more into the main dps realm too than the sub dps realm.
true, the inherent skill 2 said "when (she) dealing dmg". and i think the dmg that got boost by the inherent skill 2 (20% fusion dmg & 15% ignore deff) only applied to her forte & liberation, cuz the "boost" isn't a continous buff/debuff that have a duration.
mb I always say shred when talking about def related stuff, bad habit from PGR. YES, she ignores the def from the enemy, doesn't shred it like a typical def shredder would (think Pela HSR), she isnt that. the def Ignore is what makes her own damage probably the best in the game atm as well, its a large boost.
I have 30 pull to use on changil do you thinks i well win my 50/50
@@james-bx4wr That's with seq 6.
Jihnsi is a more f2p friendly than Changli if you want to maximise output of Changli I guess. My takeaway as a f2p and a light spender is to save until you can atleast have a common ground to have a chance to make a hero to a higher sequence. Or even up to s6
s1 or s2 is possible through the trade-in store
but you can only get two sequences naturally from that store as a F2P and light spender
everything else is gacha
How? Changli has a better f2p weapon than jihnsi lol
Technically there only has to be a fire dps on par with jinhsi added to changli and then it’s game, the problem until that happens there will also probably be a better fire support then changli( maybe)
In genshin.. a character like raiden does 60% def ignore and it only considered as 40% dmg increase.. and changli's c6 gives 40% def ignore on top of 15% existing.. so there is no way its a double dmg..
Iitll be rather around 30-35% more dmg..
Lets talk about jinhsi's S1 vs changli's S1. Jinhsi's nuke E gets 80% dmg bonus and changli only gete 10% dmg dealt..
Jinhsi S2 vs changli S2.. jinhsi gets max stacks every first rotation. Changli gets 25% cr
Jinhsi S3 vs changli S3.
Jinhsi gets 50% atk and changli gets 80% ult dmg multiplier increase..
Jinhsi's S4 vs changli S4
Jinhsi gives 20% dmg bonus and changli gives 20% atk
Jinhsi S5 vs changli S5
Increases jinhsi's ult multiplier by 120%.. where changli do gets her forte atk's multiplier by 50% and dmg dealt in 50% increase
And we know S6
First of all changli's two sequences gives similar kind of buff one being S1 and another S5 both gives dmg dealt increase and itll get diminishing returns when you stack it with heron as well..
In jinhsi's case, every sequence gives a different buff..skill dmg bonus to nuke E, atk%, All attributes dmg bonus for party, ult multiplier 2.2× increase, skill multiplier About 2× increase.
Compared to that changli sequences increases the amount of that she already has in base kit or lower sequence Like def ignore, dmg dealt.. and her ult gets only 1.8× multiplier where her forte gets only 1.5× multipliers.
Calculating all that.. we got that changli even at S6 isnt as good as S6 jinhsi due to too much diminishing returns. From each sequence she gets at the same time less multiplier increase
Yes you are 100% right! I said Jinhsi is better across all Sequence levels rn in the video for that reason! The difference is made when you factor in Changli's def ignore against higher level enemies, at which point (def ignore being a non diminishing "buff" to our damage) Changli loses MUCH LESS DAMAGE than Jinhsi with the higher lvl enemy's increased def due to being above us in lvl. so lvl 100 vs lvl 90 changli is ~8% dmg increase across the kit, which still isnt much, but Jinhsi is LOSING damage outright to the def of the enemy so it gets closer. This being even more prevalent at lvl 80 or lower character levels, and lvl 110, 120, etc bosses. LATER ON Changli will 100% out dps Jinhsi, support or otherwise, due to the fact that YES we will be getting higher level enemies in content, whether it be ToA, events, new endgame modes, the Roguelike mode, etc, in about a year i'd say she will be the better option.
S6 jinhsi gets a RIDICULOUS buff, but Changli ignores another 40% def, which makes it to where the SECOND a boss is higher level than us our overall damage output practically DOUBLES just like Jinhsi's, except Jinhsi deals less to the higher def boss while WE just walk through it, effectively half of our damage output becoming TRUE DAMAGE! 60% ignore being only 40% more damage for raiden is weird, because mathematically it makes no sense that enemy less than half def stat not take double damage, but idk, maybe there are other numbers, resistances, etc in play there, but for Changli it is genuinely just a non-diminishing, straight damage increase across the board so idk.
@@CashySwanson yeah i know.. the def shread helps you against enemies with higher levels.. however I used a calculator.. where i calculated their dmg against enemy that are lvl 120..
And jinhsi's overall dmg with verina and taoqi in one rotation is 2,124,000.. with the same team and substats in echos.. changli's overall dmg is 1,704,000..
Jinhsi S6 right now deals 24.8% more dmg than changli S6..
Yeah changli have some utility for her outro but if you're playing an S6 changli you'll most likely gonna use her as your main dps because her multipliers are too high and needs the all buff..
Right now jinhsi S6 is better than changli S6 by 24.8%.. in the future when enemy gets higher def, changli will get much closer, however if we get a support that shreds defence, it'll benefit jinhsi more than changli because changli is already ignoring 55% def overall but Jinhsi's raw dmg is 24.8% better for current enemies.. so even a 20% def shread will make the gap bigger cuz jinhsi's multipliers are way too high.. and it'll benifit changli too but much less compared to jinhsi..
For future perspective, both have very high chances to get better than each other in different circumstances so I think it's not exactly going to be right when you say "this S6 is better than that because it does this" in future anything can happen. And that can make the statement wrong.
In my personal opinion, both of their S6 are soo good that going for either is fine depending on how you wanna play. No matter what they changes or not. Since both are 1.1 characters both's S6 won't be much difference from another.
In future both might get powercreeped by some random S2 character 💀
@@Murasaki897 THANK YOU brother! I really appreciate you giving me the numbers! And the conclusion I come up with is... S6 Jinhsi is ridiculously broken🤣 that is some BS numbers
@@Murasaki897 😂 haha actually Changli has another buff lol she is buffed twice in a row
@@k-BlazeWuthringwaves30 ik.. but that buff has nothing to do with this calcs.. because I was already assuming she have her weapon's passive 100% time and she's Using resonance liberation on cooldown..
Still jinhsi does more dmg.. it'll be even better after zhezhi's release 🤣
Eventually all meta teams will be dual dps. More recently, I"ve been playing without a healer/shielder and find it more efficient. Perhaps this means that double DPS with Yinlin/Zhezhi sub DPS could be the team archetype of the future. This means Changli is is very valuable.
Hard to say if we get more healers like Verina who are only on-field for 4 seconds and apply buffs for everyone for 20-30s. Healers actually synergize better with Dual DPS set ups since you don't lose their buff whenever you quick swap.
If you are willing to S6 a character in a gacha game you're probably some arab prince who likes burning money. At that point you will probably get every character anyway and don't care about who is more valuable. I can't imagine who can relate to this video. Talking about s6 seems pointless to me for 99% of the audience.
Jesus, are we talking about S6 5* CHARS? REALLY? What the fuck are you talking about, guys, are you all whales? Just wait for a support that can shred defense, don't expect to have an all-in-one char.
She doesn't "shred" def, she ignores it. Thats mb, bad habit I picked up from PGR. Her own DEF ignore regardless of S0 or S6 is really REALLY valueable, specially against bosses higher level than she is to counteract the def increase they get (which in turn means she ignores even more of it). More of a main dps thing than a "shred for the next guy" thing.
and yes, some players will pull for S6, gotta cover my bases.
@@CashySwanson
Hey what If u compare s0 jinshi and changli? I feel Like jinshis sx are very strong and over changlis but If both are s0 ...? Changli maybe better? What do u think (i pull for changli anyways cz like her more 😅)
@@Nesteayy still Jinhsi but same brother!
@@CashySwanson😂 Jinshi S0 and Changli are fairly same
ihave S0 jinshi with her signature weapon not all the time Jinshi will have higher dmg the real reason why Jinshi has alot of dmg becuz verina is the culprit 😂
try to not buff Jinshi S0 with verina .
Jinshi's maxium dmg output is between 50k and 77k
when No Verina buffing
and for Changli no verina buffs
remember the story where we get test changli 😂 her maxium dmg output without a verina buff is 90k 😂 lol
Bro u sound smart and knows the things ur talking abt., u just earned a sub!
Ok, so from what I understand this video is saying everyone is basically a must pull... got it.
"People who will S6 both"'s button
we also have 0 calcs with her def shred or in other in kit buffs also they just buffed her aswell changli is gonna be nasty
I posted thr calcs for def shred in the comments, didnt do the rest of the kit tho. But multiplier-wise, her ult rotation has higher multipliers than jinshi's max incan stack rotation with no ult.
@@james-bx4wr talking about actual numbers like boss def and actual dmg multiplier of def shred it self
The faster you do a rotation the faster you can restart that rotation. So two dps’s that does the same DMG but one is faster and the other slower the faster one is always better, because while the slower character is finishing the first rotation the faster one is already on the next rotation. In other words they are not on par with each other. Correct me if I’m wrong
Not wrong, but not very practical. We don't care who has longer or shorter rotation. We calculate the damage per second from their FULL rotation to see who duels more DPS. Ignore the DMG from support ofc. However, this is just for fun cuz some characters may have better support's teammates then others, or some are single or multiple target 🎯.
In my opinion, I will just check how much DMG the whole team performs instead of just a single character :))
@@kiraishagaming I just meant characters with same DMG on full rotation with just the difference in speed. The character who’s faster has higher dps than slower one. In other words same DMG output but different dps, dps determines how fast you kill.
Edit: dps is more important than max DMG output because endgame is timed content.
And the only time a character that has a longer rotation beats a fast character is when their scaling is way over the fast character. Again correct me if I’m wrong.
changli out damages jinhsi at equivalent investment for time required to deal damage. Jinhsi needs 50 incandescence stacks to stay competitive, requiring her to switch into other teammates to charge her. those teammates' damage also helps but currently jinhsi is the majority of the team's damage (even with yinlin) so she is the focus, and if she doesnt get fully charged (most "quick charging" rotations only get her like ~80%) she isnt as good, so she HAS to do a bit of an extended rotation NOT BY MUCH but with Changli just doing her things while Jinhsi has to get recharged with the team, they may have similar output, but changli is much easier and more flexible to do so.
also... Changli does more damage if Jinhsi doesn't hit a crit so there is that. Damage spread throughout more hits and more of the kit, Jinhsi HAS TO CRIT the one instance of damage to even have a chance lol
I don't know how others are doing her rotations, but personally I always have 50 stacks each rotation and cleared Tower whilst messing aroung with Yinlin+Verina and also Lvl 1 Yuanwu+Taoqi. Imo when Zhezhi drops it'll be even clearer that Jihnsi is better though Changli is ofc amazing too she's closer to Jiyan than Jinhsi which isn't a bad thing @CashySwanson
@@CashySwanson does Changli have downtime on her skill after 2 uses?
I pulled jinshi becoz of her s1 is enough for most of the f2p player. I will skip changli and want future havoc dps main damage dealer. Its too early for back 2 back summon for f2p. We f2p players should better wait for next archon lvl like jinshi of next region or beyond 1.3 or 1.4 update. Meanwhile we getting guntlet user free 5 star from 1.2 and do ur free normal summons banners but save ur premium currency and diamonds.
I’ll get 1 copy of Changli, if I lose 50/50 imma hang myself cuz ive lost 3 50/50s already. I’ll try to get Changli weapon and S2 when rerun happens
When I wanna farm bosses I goto the boss location, Put a waypoint down. Goto small mobs and beat them until I've Liberation and 4th Skill. Then I tp in to boss and one shot them.
I don't think any character is beating that for another 2 or 3 months.
Bosses take around 1-2 minute to kill anyways so killing it in 0 seconds is not really that important.
@@mr.mc.doesntexist7693 It is to me.
Well some of us don't want to press one button and then go 😂
@@rhianx Oh I agree. But when I'm just farming for ascending characters on the same boss for the 5th time, it saves my time. But hey, you guys do you.
I just love doing that!
wait... there are PORTABLE WAYPOINTS??? That is so awesome! (and cheesy ngl)
im kinda confused, but the changes about Jinhsi...are those changes between Beta leaks and release or is she getting changed next patch? since shes already been out for awhile i'm like why are we talking about this now lol
from beta leaks to release
Jinshi is gamechanger, like neuv in genshin. Changli is just normal dps with great feel. If u new, i suggest u go for gamechanger. When i started almost a year ago, people told go for char u like, so i pulled wanderer, yelan, hutao n ayaka. Then no primos left for neuv or furina etc. . Big mistake. I only dont regret hutao, n somewhat yelan as she fits well with hutao. Rest i wish i had meta dps like neuv and arle now. All is fun n games until difficult content hits. Then u wish u had best dps. Now i m very careful with who i pull. Also quit genshin for wuwa. Dont wanna repeat my mistake. Also bfore u say with good build anyone can be broken, i am very casual and have lot of work, so hardly enough time to do dailies. Grind only on some weekends. So its important for f2ps like us to choose easy to build dope dps over looks. Veterans will understand 😂. Anyway just my thoughts, pull whoever u want.
@@thorsendh6948 Thanks for the input brother, hope work's been going well! Jinshi is FOR SURE the better pull, especially where the game is at rn, you are totally right. Get excited though, waveplate overflow like in HSR will be coming soon, that will help you a lot I think!
Not really a mistake yelan is a beast and hutao too , ayaka maybe a bit out dated but still very good
@@rambobrod for overworld its fine, but hard content like abyss and numerous limited fight modes, they make me regret i didn’t pull neuv. Also that Azdha whatever boss makes me wish i had zhongli. If i could go back, I would pick broken easy to build dps like neuv and truly versatile supports like zhongli and furina etc. If i had even slightest doubt about a character, I would simply wait for rerun and save primos as much possible. With how rare and expensive primos are, its important to think of them as actual currencies like dollar. Instead of saying “oh this char takes 90 pulls” u should think “this char takes 100 dollars or something ”. Then u will truly spend wisely and recognise important characters. Atleast thats what i think after playing gacha for 1 year. I maybe wrong. I appreciate everyone’s opinion.
@@thorsendh6948 I'm sorry, regretting ur pulls BC u couldn't or struggled clearing genshin abyss sounds like skill issue. Also wuwa hasn't been out long enough to pull for ur revered "gamechanger". And ur case Hu Tao is an anomaly. She should have been outdone far long back, she somehow manages to hang on. That's rare. But outside all dpses lose value quicker, so will Jinhsi.
@@arkabarma3286 🥲. Feel like u been here long before me. Maybe i m too new to this gacha bullshit. I only used to play other games. Last year i played genshin for 5 months continuously. I watched all tier list then and pulled hutao yelan etc.. They took almost 3-4 months to build(i dont have much time to play everyday). Hutao team is 😘. Huge damage, dont care about powercreep, dont care about arle. Issue is had with wanderer and ayaka. I loved their playstyle before pulling, but post pulling, no matter how much i build them, their damage nowhere near hutao team. That i regret, feel i could have waited for neuv or navia etc. . Tower also hutao team will dominate, but aoe situations i suffer. I have good 4 stars like entire national team, but no time to build them. But anyway my point being bcoz i spent so much time observing, i know what types of char are broken and what are mid or average. Eg suppose jiyan was best dps now and by a long margin, i would still wait for rerun and see if powercreep hasn’t got him. Reason being he is normal dps in playstyle. Normal dps take long onfield time and they mostly enter some enhanced state, from skill(like hutao) or ult(like jiyan) and their basic attack transforms into special attack and they do damage over time. Out of them more common are dps that target one enemy at a time and move to other upon killing. They may look different have more or less damage, but at core they all feel the same. This is not what jinshi feels like. U can keep her in party and ignore her until her forte fills. But once it fills, huge multiplier. She enables ur team to run another top tier dps with his healer/support too. This is feels completely different. Thats why i loved navia too as she does similar thing, but her multipliers are not huge, also she might miss leading to dmg loss. Sly neuv feels completely different. He sure is hypercarry, but dosent target 1 enemy at a time. Just super powerful laser that u can control. Therefore completely different feel and therefore huge damage gurantee. Such dps are special and you will notice that lorewise strong chars only get that kind of attention. Its like devs telling u to pull for it. Changli again fits “normal dps” description , so i will wait for rerun and see. Just my opinion.
Changli what sequence should we go for? S2?
Just go read and see for yourself lol
@@shiranuishogunsaga8451 i wanted second opinion
S2 is a really good stopping point for f2p & light spenders. I would say S2>sig weapon as well since the Emerald of Genesis is such a good weapon for her if it is a decision between at all.
@@CashySwanson thanks bro..
@@CashySwanson S2 for F2P & light spenders? hard pass for me as f2p. I'll be loyal to my Jhinsi S1R1.
15% DEF ignore isn't much. DEF shred/ignore is only good when stacked a lot usually. The S6 gives 40% more but that's S6, it's a stupid investment of your money. Jinhsi is IMHO better value if you need a DMG dealer. She might have lower retention value, but her kit seems very future proof because she is not a pure hypercarry DPS. Changli at S0 is clearly not a main carry, she's a sub DPS.
Changli is gonna be busted, for sure, but Jinshi is the better pull (I’m getting both, no bias here) by far IMHO, she will take too much field time to be the best sub DPS and she doesn’t do anything off field, her outro alone can’t compete against a Yinlin that can skill skill echo out every other rotation, and her DEF ignore is for herself I I understand it correctly, if she'd debuff the enemy so it applies to the whole team we'd be cooking, i also don't think she'll have main DPS levels of damage. Too bad coz i like her a lot but she's just gonna be tied to Scar and everywhere else is like is good but not best as more characters come in.
imo pull whoever you like cuz WuWa most characters can clear end game content with enough investment
true that. One of these days im going to solo clear middle tower with dps baizi, just for shits & gigs :)
@@CashySwansonThe spinning beyblade of death will conquer...
Changli S6 have 2.3Mil dmg per rotation
S6 jinhsi have 2.9 mil dmg and even if you don't include jinhsi's Ult it's still 2.34 mil bro.. atleast do some calcs with the official calculator to do your stuff
You're overrating changli for a long time I've noticed that lol
When zhezhi will come out jinhsi will be able to ult in every rotation and changli is usually forced to to ult every rotation.. so that will put changli even behind cuz now the difference is significantly big once they both got access to their ult in every damn rotation
Depends on the enemy. if the enemy is higher level than they are (100, 110, 120, etc) they gain more def, which in turn Changli shreds more. Somebody else calc'd the damage gain against a lvl 100 enemy and at S0 the 15% def ignore was ~8% more damage across the board (non diminishing), whereas jinhsi would be dealing less damage due to that def, evening them up a bit. As I have said as well, RIGHT NOW jinhsi is better at EVERY sequence level, but the def ignore will become PARAMOUNT as we continue into the future and bosses get stronger across the board. (the dmg difference gets even closer at levels lower than 90, say 80 or 70 for example. Changli becomes MUCH better than Jinhsi due to the def ignore scaling just higher and higher)
@@CashySwanson yeah but that def ignorance will be less valuable if we get a support that shreads down the def of enemy.. then changli's def ignorance will get a diminishing returns where jinhsi's one will be a huge increase right?
It's very likely to happen if they increase an enemy's def, a def shread character might come as support
@@daviduser779 Are you expecting to get a support that both shreds def, is of a diff element, and builds stacks for jinhsi? Are we being dreamers rn, because i can dream up crazier stuff than you can
@@kaim7443 I mean that's what happens when you never tried a different game other than hoyo games and then play a kuro games..
Keep yapping what you want.. jinhsi S6 already better than changli S6 even against lvl 120 enemies when they both ult.. and their S6 are same when jinhsi doesn't ult but changli ults so lmao
Jinhsi in depths of elusive realm is crazy 😂
Somehow I was just killing everything with her basic normal attacks... when I was picking all the buffs for her enhanced attacks.
@@zippo718 use the enhancements that skips her first 3 basic attacks u can spam ults with that
THATS WHY I PULLED HER LOL! She is SO FUN!
What's the context?
older video of mine, I was wrong due to changes on release + misunderstanding Jinhsi S2 (thought it was WAY MORE BROKEN than it is)
its the same with jiyan ... peopel still wanna tell encore outdmg him... i say thats bullsh... same with jinshi she is just STRONG AS F .... changli will not stay a chance against here ... no matter in what direction u discuss
@@michato7760 i just read someone’s comment claiming changli’s multipliers are better than jinshi’s bcoz of def ignore something. I mean u can literally play them both against same enemy in game. Clearly jinshi’s nuke outdps both changli’s ult and her forte by long shot. People will just bring something from their ass to prove their loved char are better. I love changli’s design, but doubt she will be as powerful. Any future fusion support will replace her easily, as clearly devs consider her role as dps. In dps department, jiyan still better than her. Will wait for her rerun, hopefully till then picture is more clear.
@@thorsendh6948 True, meanwhile they Buffed her kit, so ist Safe to say shes become stronger .. imo desperetly needed she was really Not that Amazing compare to danji.. now u can pull for her i guess but jinshi still outdmg her
@@michato7760 ya. I also recall her ult being at 630% or something, now its 850% or something. Still lower than rover ult(1000% or something) and jinshi forte(1500% approx). If they had made her too better, I would feel cheated cause i already pulled jinshi after playing both side by side in that mission where we can play both jinshi and changli. I played that for weeks before making my decision. Dont want kuro to make it a habit to change characters kit after it has been already entered in game.
@@thorsendh6948 im pretty sure u will not regret your decissions through the next patches ;) nevertheless i wish you good luck for pulling!
As usual L take
I wanna see changli oneshooting lv6 holograms aswell. 😂😂😂 Jinhsi is just way more powerful then Changli
... debatable, but I will try my best to deliver my best "one shots" with her forte/ult/forte combo ;)
You're talking about a burst damage character vs a consistent damage character. In this specific circumstance, of course, Jinhsi cannot be matched by anyone.
@@shiranuishogunsaga8451 not even remotely lol, Jinhsi is a MONSTER!
But let's say we put them on equal footing: Hologram solos. Now what?
no shit sherlock thats literally what jinhsi was made to do shes a burst dps changli has high sustained damage you leave them both in the field changli does more dps while jinhsi is stuck doing nothing after the burst you make them start the same spot vs a hologram boss no stacks lets see who can finish first lmao