Totally .. I'm blown away! Tom is brilliant! How do you keep this must detail in your head? FIng amazing.. plus I love Tom's smile, I can how it helped me. He's basically a kind nature
It's good to see Tom is finally getting the attention he and his work deserves. I read the book in three days and I never thought, this went so far. It's all absolutely fascinating. Thanks Tom!
Finished CHAOS yesterday. Gotta say I'm definitely joining the research effort, in fact that's what got me hooked. Knowing that even though I was going to learn a lot, there would not be a conclusion. Tom is running an Instagram now where he posts new findings and leads, been using it in tandem with the book and the internet to look further into things.
The author has integrity. 20 years of tracking down leads , documentation , eyewitnesses. He even spoke to Manson . Well worth the read although you may find it difficult to get .
20th century man: Yes, Oneill's adept at "tracking down" the false lead of a drug burn/robbery as the *_real_* reason for the TLB killings. Or listening only to witnesses who say what he wants to hear. Or desperately & unsucessfully trying to tie Jack Ruby and the CIA's MK-ULTRA to the Manson case. What a piece of work!
Tom O' is the right guy at the right time; no new journalist--if there are any new journalists--could do this kind of work. Keeping your head down and towing the company line has increasingly become the way.
For those of you who might be thinking of reading the book, I would definitely recommend it. Awesome bit of research and reportage. Plus the leftover research on the RFK killing will make a great addition to the recenty released book by Linda Pease.
Mindboggling how little attention the book has received so far. It undoes the entire Helter Skelter narrative and basically corrected history and the narrative of the Tate-LaBianca-murders. Its an astonishing, dense and brillant piece of work. I suppose it needs to marinade in the subconciousness and will grow over the years in regards to relevance and importance.
but this is actually old stuff. Mabe Russell was all over this back in the 70s. I used to listen to Russell's acolyte Dave Emory talk this theory on highest IQ radio show ever called Somethings Happening on KPFK in Los Angeles.
@@IanPunter The book ties Manson to MKULTRA and operation chaos though, that's the point of it, not just poking holes in the fake narrative. Those intelligence operations weren't even known about in the 70s, they definitely didnt know the thousands of connections and details that are all new in this book
Horus It doesn’t tie Manson DIRECTLY to MKUltra or the CIA. There is no evidence there ever was a direct connection, regardless of what was going on in the Haight or the clinic where the girls got treated for their STDs. Tom ONeill basically admits this. Any direct connection is pure speculation.
@@EastSide-qc5oy Direct evidence of what his connection was isn't there, but his parole officer being an MKULTRA scientist is a connection that is not dubious or speculative. You could say it doesn't tie him "directly", but, we're talking about something that is inherently secretive and that kind of seems like arguing in bad faith
The most fascinating thing is how the real murderer of everyone seems to be disappeared in all the Manson stories over the years. That is Tex Watson. He knows everything yet I don't see any books about him or good in depth interviews. He is still alive and well. He is the real key to the real story.
@@stddisclaimer8020 Who gives a damn. What is your point. He is the killer. He also had his own game going on. He was not a lap dog to Manson. He also did not live at the ranch like the others. He had his own place. Watson knows everything and that is the point and you fucking know it. Don't bother responding if it is just shit on a stick because I will just point it back at you as I should.
The more I read Tom's book the more I listen to Manson interviews and hear it in a different way. Manson went to the grave claiming the prosecutor invented his theory and that he didn't get a fair trial. I think I concur
Great Book Tom! In Shane O’Sullivans book Who Killed Bobby, Jolly West is brought up with possibly being the radio man that Sirhan was meeting with. West was involved with Patty Hearst & the SLO. He saw Jack Ruby. Dig deep in books like Who Killed the King , James earl ray saw a hypnotist, the attempted assassin of Wallace saw a hypnotist. West was at the top of his game but their was more like West out their. Read the book who killed John Lennon. Russ Bakers masterpiece Family of Secrets about the bushes is a must Read. Another strange thing is that when the Manson Murders occurred Polanski was in England looking for a location to film a movie called the Day of the Dolphin. A movie about a dolphin trained to assassinate the president. In the nonfiction book The Search For The Manchurian Candidate it clearly states that their was a CIA doctor at that same time obsessed with training dolphins with hypodermic needles attached to them to kill enemy frogmen. ( I know off subject but strange) Has anyone ever wondered why the Author of the book Manson Files which is extremely expensive can’t find it cheaper then 200$ who opposes the CIA theory and Ed Saunders book called the Family because of the connection to the satanic church called the process avoids questions about Reece Whitson at all costs. Everyone needs to dig deep. Things like Manson mastered the highest level of Scientology in which it has been proven that Hubbard was in fact extremely close to Aleister Crowley who was working closely with the CIA for years. Even the fact that a big time la costa nostra (Mafia) member Carbo was very close with Manson is huge because the CIA has been working hand & hand with the Mafia since project underground and with Vito Genoese in Italy When Patton liberated it. The Mafia & the CIA again ran the drug trade together! Read Strength of the Wolf by Valentine. Labianca was a massive gambler in huge debts to the mafi. This rabbit hole is massive and these things just are not coincidental. Must reads are Acid Dreams, Operation Mind Control, Journey Into The Madness, The Search For The Manchurian Candidate, Cointelpro, The Secret Team, The Cult of Intelligence, The Devil’s Chessboard & Who Killed Bobby. I’m currently researching Jonestown & my podcast/Vlog is about to restart soon. Manson, Kennedy, Ruby, MLK, RFK, Malcom X, Lennon , Hoffa, assassination attempts on Wallace , the Pope ,Reagan by Hinckley ( friends with bush VP and former director of CIA after MK-Ultra was exposed) the connections are insane. Do the research the answers are there. Thank you Tom for your dedication, we look forward to the next book. In the CIA the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing. They portray this image that they are constantly screwing up. That’s all part of espionage. You only know what they want you to know. Everyone should listen to MAE BRUSSELS old radio shows. She was ahead of her time and this was her masterpiece. She covered all this. One of Oswalds CIA Handlers George De Morechildt was going to testify for the select house committee of assassination also had the same mental breakdowns extremely simuliar to rubys before committing suicide by shooting himself in the head with a shotgun before he could testify. Also Mobsters Rosseli and Gianicana both high level ranking members of the La Cosa Nostra who were hired by the CIA through CIA cutouts Jimmy Hoffa and Howard Hughes right hand man Robert Maheu were going to testify on that same committee were murdered conviently before they were going to testify. Giancana was the Godfather of the Chicago Outfit and Rosseli was almost untouchable running operations in Las Vegas and L.A. It is assumed that the mob killed them because they were going to break omerta which is the mafia oath of silence you take when you become a made man. With all my teams research we are positive that although the mafia most likely were involved in some compacity , the CIA called these hits because they had much more to lose then the mafia if the public became aware of The US government working so closely with the mafia. What a can of worms that would open. Also shortly after that Jimmy Hoffa disappeared. I wonder if Carbo ( friends with Manson and most likely the man who killed Bugsy Siegel) Knew and worked with Johnny Rosseli?
To each his or her own. This was the most boring book I’ve ever read. I couldn’t get through the first 4 chapters without falling asleep. Twice. After realizing the entire book reads on a 3rd grade level, I threw it away.
@@stddisclaimer8020 Exactly. The author took common knowledge, twisted it in a desperate attempt to look intelligent, then stretched all that into a 500+ page novel... about nothing.
@@stddisclaimer8020 Yes and I'm all in with hearing them. Personally I've always felt the possibility the Tate thing was hoaxed, to haystack the Labianca one, which was so obviously a mob hit carried out by the Manson gang. If you've ever seen the crime scene photos of the Tate one they look faked.
@@Adept179 Leaving aside that horse's head in the Labiancas' bed, TLB "so obviously" had nothing to do with the mob. But you,quite obviously, do have a firm disconnect from reality, clinging to the security blanket of your own fantasy narratives.
well, you have to take into account the chance of someone reoffending. sure, lots of ppl get less time for more hands on crimes, but i think manson would have reoffended 100%. he was the same lunatic until the day he died. you think there was ever a time in the past 30 years that he could have been safely released into society?
@@everwhat013 Are you completely missing the whole CIA angle to this and that to a large degree he was set up? And you don't keep people in jail for "possible recidivism." How is that any different than mind crime? I suggest you read the constitution...
He was actually convicted of two other murders (Gary Hinman and Donald Shea), in addition to the murder and conspiracy convictions in the Tate/La Bianca killings.
What is the truth ? Tons of evidence ,agendas ,theories , lies. Where + how did Manson get money for all the drugs ? They were dumpster diving for food , living at an abandoned ranch . They must of had patrons Powerful ones .His probation was never revoked no matter how many felonies he committed . The more we learn the more questions .
@TermsofService Have you even bothered to read the author's Mr. O'Neill's book ? I have and more. What began as a 3 month magazine assignment turned into a 20 year investigation that discredits the official narrative backed up by interviews, documents, sources and evidence of a massive coverup .You seem to have a definite lack of familiarity with the subject matter . "Conspiracy Theory " is the best you can do ?
I grew up in that hollywood. Seeing a cleaned up Manson pop out of a limo wasn't unusual on the strip. I think there's a reason that alot of celebs were nervous. I don't believe it had that much to do with Charlie. $1000's worth of " primo " drugs don"t just happen.
@@20thcenturyman21 You are actually puffed up and pompous enough to think that if only someone reads a book you recommend, they'll think exactly like you? Keep your head buried in the fantasy world of hack authors who seek to profit off infamous murders, rational and reasonable folks do not care.
Manson was an informant with CIA protection. Similar events happened in College town/Boston. Governor Frank Sargent who assumed office in January 1969 worked with Natick Army Labs and Army intelligence in tracking 100's of Communist agitators. My cousin was on a payroll at UMass/Amherst under Governor Sargent doing drug busts and monitoring Pierponts Project 10.
Can't remember where I read this, but Elon Musk's mother put money on the books for the girls during the trials. There is a photo taken when the ranch was raided that she is in. Man i wish I could track that info down.
had never believed in conspiracies. But it is a documented fact that the CIA had a programme called Chaos, and the FBI had one called Cointelpro. The objectives of both of those at-the-time secret operations were to destabilise the left-wing movement and make hippies appear dangerous. And if this was a government operation, then boy did they succeed. Suddenly, everybody looked at anyone with long hair and a beard as a possible Charlie Manson.
I admire the way Tom O´Neill express his thaughts. "Funny" thing is that Manson, who was a racist, before the murdershung around with people like Dennis Wilson, Neil Young and others of the Laurel Canyon artists.
@Melanie Jarrett Thanks for the info. I'll check them out. Yeah, Bugliosi is a scum bag. I've done quite of bit of personal research into the JFK assassination and he was totally wrong. Helter Skelter is the same tripe.
@Melanie Jarrett Bugliosi was a paid disinformation agent, one of several the CIA have put out there re: controversial/treasonous events to cloud the waters and keep the general public focused the more comfortable lies from the government instead of the uncomfortable truths.
@@jamiekelly6851 there’s a difference between covering politics and including your own personal political bias. He doesn’t give his own opinions about the politics, just facts.
Manson CIA, no. Manson one of the many being used as a lab rat yes, huge possibility. Prisoners, mental hospital patients, and random unknown people in society were also used as "lab rats". Manson being one of them is definitely not far fetched. Toms research proves the probability is high. Manson speaks if it alot through his mumble jumble talk if you kisten closely. Hes just mostly ignored cuz of his crazy way of talking and the majority of people see him as solely a nut job and his words are dismissed. He does talk about how the "government doctors" stick needles in his arms and shit like that. I do believe we probably never will get the "Truth" but i respect the amount of research and different perspective tom has shown. The original bugliosi narrative makes no sense when you really dig deep. Tom may not be 100% but i believe he did find some correct information and worked real hard to give the most legit information to his ability. Having saud that, i have yet to read the book, i gather this from multiple interviews and years of personal curiosity and interest in this case. I cant wait to read the book and look forward to see what he managed to put together!
Possibility of distant relation. Sidney Gottlieb had four children with his wife, Margaret. None are/were named Scott. Stephen Kinzer's book on Gottlieb reveals what is publicly known about his family.
I've read Tom's book. It's good and full of trivia not heard or read in other books and interviews. But his primis that Manson was an Cia asset is totally unproven. But I enjoyed getting the truth out about Altobellis reasons for his house being the target. Also....Melcher was alot closer to the family than any book or Interviews has out on him. He (melcher) was obsessed with Ouish. (R.Moorehouse) and Tex was closer to the Altobelli/Melcher house than anyone has ever said. Any anti-helter skelter angle is just Irving Kanereks argument.
Freedom of Information, as we see fit. Freedom of Information, except this. Can we get the Freedom of Absolute Information Act. Will we ever hear the Tex Watson tapes? So much other video, and taped conversations on other cases, I would like to hear.
Louis Jolyon West (October 6, 1924 - January 2, 1999) was an American psychiatrist involved in the public sphere. In 1954, at the age of 29 and with no previous tenure-track appointment, he became a full professor and chair of psychiatry at the University of Oklahoma College of Medicine. From 1969 to 1989, he served as chair of psychiatry at the University of California, Los Angeles School of Medicine and the UCLA Neuropsychiatric Institute. Cornell University, where West completed his residency in psychiatry, was an MKUltra institution and the site of the Human Ecology Fund.[8][9] He later became a subcontractor for MKUltra subproject 43, a $20,800 grant by the CIA while he was chairman of the department of Psychiatry at the University of Oklahoma. The proposal submitted by West was titled "Psychophysiological Studies of Hypnosis and Suggestibility" with an accompanying document titled "Studies of Dissociative States".[10] *LSD-related death of an elephant* One of the more unusual incidents in West's career took place in August 1962. He and two co-workers attempted to investigate the phenomenon of musth in elephants by dosing Tusko, a bull elephant at the Lincoln Park Zoo in Oklahoma City, with LSD. They expected that the drug would trigger a state similar to musth; instead, the animal began to have seizures 5 minutes after LSD was administered. Beginning twenty minutes later, West and his colleagues administered the antipsychotic promazine hydrochloride; they injected a total of 2800 mg over 11 minutes. This large promazine dose was not effective and may have contributed to the animal's death. It died an hour and 40 minutes after the LSD was given.[11] Later, many theories developed about why Tusko had died. Some researchers thought that West and his colleagues had made the mistake of scaling up the dose in proportion to the animal's body weight, rather than its brain weight, and without considering other factors, such as its metabolic rate.[12][13] Another theory was that while the LSD had caused Tusko distress, the drugs administered in an attempt to revive him caused death. Attempting to prove that the LSD alone had not been the cause of death, Ronald K. Siegel of UCLA repeated a variant of West's experiment on two elephants; he administered to two elephants equivalent doses (in milligrams per kilogram) to that which had been given to Tusko, mixing the LSD in their drinking water rather than directly injecting it. Neither elephant expired or exhibited any great distress, although both behaved strangely for a number of hours.[
I bet Tom O'Neill was a decent chick magnet back in the day seeing the thumbnail I'm starting to get up there so I see how we changed over the years He mentioned in a different podcast about how he liked the 70s punk Ara mentioned the Ramones, and Patty Smith. He also told a pretty cool story of going up and partying with Marilyn Manson. I bet Tom was pretty cool back in the '70s ,and still is would be a fun guy to hang out with ?
@Boo well explains why he was probably a chick magnet Rock Hudson was gay look at all the p**** he got LOL I didn't know if he was or not I had my suspicions he's not a flamer ,or very flamboyant you can just tell that he was probably a decent looking man back in his twenties, and thirties
@@SuperOmnicronsj44 yeah no shit maybe he goes both ways? I've always thought negative things about gays but as I get older Ive noticed how some men become distinguished looking shit I'm 50 had all the pussy I wanted in my younger days but notice how some of us can actually do better as older guys woman seem to like older men more so now than back in the day ?
The author explains in the interview with Joe Rogan that Jane Fonda, Mama Cass, Donald Sutherland and others were in support of the black panthers were raising money for them, and therefore they were being followed by the CIA and FBI. That’s one reason why they did not cooperate because they were The enemy, at least in Nixon’s mind and J Edgar Hoovers mind, because of the positions they were taking regarding Black activism and the war.
@Tiffany F. Doesn’t it almost seem as though Cass Elliot was somehow the “hub” of the freaky wheel whose spokes connected the Laurel Canyon crowd with the Manson crowd and the 1969-Cielo-party-house gang? According to Tom O’Neil’s book, Pic Dawson, Tom Harrigan and Billy Doyle (the latter being the recipient of the legendary “whipping and buggering” incident in the summer of '69) were all romantically involved with. . .Cass Elliot! Dennis Hopper-who was living with Michelle Phillips at the time-certainly had a lot to say about the freakiness that took place at Cass Elliot’s place and the Cielo Drive house in 1969.
It was sex stuff, apparently Polanski had ordered Sharon to be boned by two guys while he watched/filmed...the twist is that Bugliosi said he found the tape in the attic right after the murders and a cop told him to put it back where he found it...then...when he went back to the house in a prosecutorial role, he fished it back out and smuggled it out of the house...problem with that is...he wasn't brought on to the case that early on in the piece, that he would have been in the house -right after the murders...to have found it that first time... It's another example of whatever happened and who knew what and when...is different to the official narrative.
@@elsmeervd4893 nnnnope... Bugliosi was there (for an unknown reason, because he had no legal reason to be there right after the murders, at least not in a prosecutorial role) and a cop found the tape in the attic and told the cop to put it back... then months later, he went there as the prosecutor and took the tape and basically kept it under wraps... Polanski didn't have it... but, the thing we can at least agree on, is that we won't agree on anything... because of all the lies and cover up involved with every aspect of this story. If you don't agree with Tom O'Neill's version of events, I see no way we can agree. Have you read his book? Chaos... (etc regarding the 60's and the murders...)
@@jeffwilliams196 wOW. Yeah it seems a little weird that this young guy just came in and got involved and really started to dominate and stuff I don’t know why like what is their relationship?
Yes. And here it is briefly, Manson wanted to get Bobby bueselie out of jail, and he came up with a scheme of trying to blame black people for the crimes. They wrote it in blood on the walls.
I am reading this book, CHAOS, now -- and have to say the truth is most definitely in the process of coming out. The author has learned even MORE since the book's publication and hopes to put out a second book. There is so much in THIS book it is truly astonishing. The author didn't go from writing a magazine article to doing a full on 20-year investigation for no reason. He was finding lies -- and truths -- and one thing for certain is the HELTER SKELTER (the book and the movie) are just Bugliosi's made-up story to cover up what REALLY was going on behind the scenes in nearly all of the active players' lives, both criminal and those involved in law enforcement and the courts.
This book is Freaking Amazing!! It manages to turn the whole Buglosi Helter Skelter narrative upside down, this is THE essential Manson Book to read, the only other that comes close is Ed Sanders's 'The Family'...it makes a great companion to 'Acid Dreams' by Martin A Lee, the most thorough account of the sordid history of the CIA's history with LSD and MKULTRA, operation MIDNIGHT CLIMAX and the time that the punchbowl was almost spiked with acid at a CIA christmas party back in the mid 50s...Mindblowing stuff...I hope the success of this inspires the eventual release of the tapes of the Tex Watson confession, likely the last chance we have to learn what really happened that night on Celio Dr.
Has it ever been proven (documented) that Manson or anyone else in the Family was part of the CIA's MK-Ultra or Chaos programs. I've seen that kind of documentation for Whitey Bulger. I've never seen any for Manson. Does O'Neill offer any EVIDENCE (documentation) in the book? Because it seems O'Neill's premise has a lot of holes in it.
@@paulhart3812 The book puts Manson and West at the HAFC where David and Roger Smith (Manson's parole officer) were running experiments on hippies. He never is able to directly connect the two. Just that Manson succeeded in exactly what West was attempting.
@@paulhart3812 No Smoking Gun, but quite a lot of circumstantial evidence, such as whatever they were attempting at the Haight Ashbury Free Clinic, where Dr. Jolly was running his experiments at the time, as well as being Manson's Probation officer's base of operations...Also the fact that Manson and his girls were consistently released while committing multiple felonies while still on Federal Probation, which strongly suggests that they were being given a pass by someone much more prominent, for whatever reason. Manson and his family were also under an incredible amount of surveillance by multiple police agencies at the time of the murders, it seems implausible that someone wasn't monitoring their every move. At this late date I seriously doubt we will ever know the extent of what was actually going on, unless the tapes of Tex Watson's initial interview are ever made public, which may not happen in any of our lifetimes. Manson definitely seemed to be just as protected as Kyser Souze, and knowing what we now know about the extent of MKULTRA, a concerted effort to discredit those dirty hippie assholes once and for all, seems fairly plausible.
Paul Hart Absolutely no, it has not been proven. There is no evidence of a direct Manson/CIA connection but the speculations from ONeill’s book are enough for a lot of these people to count as “proof.”
Stephen Kay was at every single Manson parole hearing and he was probably Charlie's most vehement nemesis. If you watch the parole hearings here in UA-cam Charlie just says horrible things about Stephen Kay's mother under his breath etc...
@@stddisclaimer8020 We're all human beings; no need to imply that she never murdered, mutilated, etc... Some with nearly nothing try to do the best that can - most fail. I don't know about whether or not Kathleen failed or not; that's between her and her Prophet of her choice. She was a child herself when she birthed a child herself. Are you truly one to cast the proverbial first stone? Something in my heart tells me 'not you're not that one." Nor am i. Peace and true blessings for you and yours.
@@thomasgreaves354 It is clear (no need for implication) that Kathleen did not do the best she could, as it's outright obvious. Yes, she was a child once, and her mother was a child once, and her mother's mother was a child, and so on. That kind of thinking leads to an infinite regression, of shifting blame on to the previous generation. Someone, at some point in the continuum, needs to rise above all the inherited bad baggage and take some responsibility, and do the right thing. Plainly, Kathleen Maddox was not that person.
One problem. In three interviews, Manson himself said the murders at 10050 Cielo Drive happened because Terry Melcher lied and "broke a contract". Bobby Beausoleil said Manson told him personally (while the two shared a cell during the Hinman trial) that Cielo Drive was targeted because of Melcher.
@@paulhart3812 Do you realize that our "Beloved Doris Day" had a bad encounter with Manson. I am surprised she was not murdered. She had a small record company "Day Records " and Manson wanted her to "sign him".. She angrily told him to get the F---- out... Yes, our Doris !!!
I really appreciate that O’Neill spent 20 years doing this research… We don’t have enough real reporters these days… It’s just Talking Heads and UA-camrs and Podcasters but very few people doing the actual legwork… That said, the book is a little disappointing… Having watched numerous interviews with the Manson family women there’s no reason to believe the official account of events difference from reality… the book is a fun read, but entirely inconclusive… Manson was a charismatic ConMan who took a tremendous amount of LSD… His motive was ridiculous and insane, but so was he… his followers were entirely enthralled…
I would say the book is also about the failure & compliance of the criminal "justice" system. Tom said it himself that he couldn't point the finger & be wrong. Or present information that he couldn't actual prove. Look at how much evidence has disappeared in many cases, nothing is ever done.
Dan P. Worked on the Prince book. "The Beautiful Ones" an odd title considering he has to have just read extensivly about the Calhoun rat experiments. Does he think Prince is a "beautiful one".?...it has such a depressing and tragic context.
Those people were all pawns, or low-level operatives. You can tell that, because they're the ones who went to prison. I would suggest that someone might look into the families of those you named, because they might find a common link.
It’s kind of funny that O’Neill stated in an interview that Bugliosi was also a pawn, but that he enjoyed what he was doing too much. Hence, O’Neill made him out to be an arch villain. LAME
If you have an amazing book, you should never shorten it to 500 pages, you should get every bit of information that you have on there , even if it’s 1500 pages. Trust me, we the readers would love that !!!!
Tex was the actual killer. He was the one who murdered all of those people ... the nice preppy football player, from Texas. Manson was the biggest patsy in all of juridical history. He killed no one, but took the fall.
@@MatewanMassacreManson killed SHORTY,and a man he threw down the WELL @ SPAHN RANCH (WITNESSED BY DENNIS WILSON.) I HAVE STUDIED THIS CASE SINCE AGE 7 (1973). WHY DON'T YOU GET YOU'RE FACTS STRAIGHT!!!
Manson HIMSELF said in several interview that "Sharon Tate and the others died because Terry Melcher broke a contract and sent three Orientals to Spahn's Ranch with hatchets to kill someone." That person (who Manson calls the "Blonde-Haired, Blue-Eyed Oriental") and his two assistants were, in deed, sent by Melcher to Spahn's Ranch, but not to kill Manson. They were sent there to record Manson's music with a mobile recording studio in mid-June 1969. Someone in the Family gave this "Oriental" (whose initials are MD) an overdose of LSD, and he freaked out, thinking Manson's music was demonic, and that Manson himself was the Devil. He tried to impale Manson with a pitchfork and a hatchet while screaming "stay out of the music business or I'll cut your head off." Manson said "Melcher sent this clown over to me, and he wanted to fight. So I ran behind a shed." If Bruce Davis and Steve Grogan didn't stop this guy (MD)... Manson wouldn't been impaled. Manson added: "To Terry Melcher, this guy was THE MAN. He's not the MAN to me. Put him in San Quentin, and he's not the MAN." Manson gets very upset and emotional just recalling this incident in his 1994 interview with Bill Scanlon Murphy. The event was very traumatic for him. So when asked WHY the Cielo Drive house was chosen, Manson always mentions this Blonde-Oriental (who was sent by Melcher) to KILL him. That's why Manson says the killings at Cielo Drive were RETALIATION for that murder attempt on him at Spahn's Ranch.
Manson is the only person that collaborate this...possibly he didn't really know why he ordered his minions to kill everybody in that house. Terry lied on the stand.
Sure was creepy when Ariel asked if this could happen in 21st century. OMFG! We need a million Tom O;Neills. The reason this was allowed to come out was that it didn't involve Israel and was directed against alleged conservatives.
This dude seems like he’s CIA. Wouldn’t be surprised if this was all some way of declassifying this to the public but still withhold plenty of information.... I could just be going crazy🤨😂
@@jeffwilliams196 yeah, dan got the job to ' ghost write ' prince's autobiography, and Prince o.d.'s.. supposedly, prince just read an article written by dan, and had an over the phone formal talk with dan, and hired him.. I'm just trying to figure out how he happens to be tied to Prince, and this book by Tom.. I will eventually read the book.. Seems like he left a lot out of the book though. Using page count and getting info after the writing of the manuscript, and simply not wanting to include certain stuff as an excuse, for not telling everything he's learned.. Why not write a second book?
Justin Thompson not Google, in the book he explains a PI trained him to skip trace for people. Entirely possible as I have done it for a living myself.
bustergoldenrod im very familiar with skip tracing, we’re talking about witness protection program though, not some long lost family member or friend you went to highschool with 35 years ago.
I heard O'Neill on C2C AM last night say Bugliosi was anti-conspiracy, but, in fact, Bugliosi was very ambiguous and contradictory because he was against the Manson conspiracy, as he would naturally be since he was the prosecutor, but he was in favour of the JFK conspiracy because he was in denial of it knowing very well it was real so he was protecting it, doing the bidding of the government. Also, O'Neill said that he (speaking of himself) found conspiracies to be nonsense and avoided them, so then why did he cover the Manson conspiracy, and why would he think they were nonsense since he was covering one, and they are recognized by law? He himself said the Manson Family was charged with conspiracy and convicted of it. Let's not lose sight of the fact that the idea the Manson Family were the perpetrators is a conspiracy theory, just as is any police and prosecution accusation of conspiracy.
The fact of conspiracy behind both the JFK hit and the manson family are beyond question at this point (actually very long ago). People need to come to grips with the way our government and media REALLY OPERATE. You're living a life of delusion otherwise.
@Capt Zdq: You throw around the word conspiracy like you have no inkling what it actually means. You don't. Moreover, you show an amateur DIY sleuth's bees-in-the-bonnet understanding of Vince Bugliosi and the Manson case. Stay away from it if you comprehend so very little.
the moderator and subject immediately fell all over themselves to hand-wave against *"conspiracy"* but the book itself is conspiracy lore. i'm reading it now for free on my dad's Scribd account. every time something like this comes out, i miss Dave McGowan a little more -- his *Programmed to Kill: The Politics of Serial Murder* and *Weird Scenes Inside The Canyon: Laurel Canyon, Covert Ops & The Dark Heart Of The Hippie Dream* are must-read.
@@ringkite Here's another "hand wave" to dismiss O'Neill's crass attempt to cash in on an infamous set of murders. It's nothing but speculative garbage, as are the other conspiracy peddling books you mentioned. A MUST THROW-IN-THE-TRASH!
Like a lot of these people who spread possibilities, maybe's and what ifs. Occasionally mixed with certainties. They all have the celebrity and the cash that comes along with it. There is too much hearsay in this guy's "facts." People it seems want to believe in conspiracies. That's why I'm here. And why I've heard him share his beliefs on two other occasions. But the more i listen the less i believe this guy. Or like him.
The Jonestown murders in '78 surely did and there was tons covered up in the event, one obvious thing was getting rid of troublesome Ryan. I would argue in some ways it had even more impact than Manson
@@johnnynobuddy1 Umm I think you need to dig in that a little more mate. I used to think that too until the tapes were released via the FOIA especially I believe it is the q42 tape where, amazing it did not get deleted from the tape, Jones is telling them to get the CIA agent who traveled down there with Congressman Ryan out of there. The "official" story was this guy was suppose to be with Ryan up at the airport on there way out of there - obviously not. It is obvious from the tapes that the CIA guy that flew down there with Ryan was to make sure of at least a couple of things, Ryan gets killed and the people at Jonestown die. Another factor is that they scouted out that property even before Jones had moved the group to California. The reported who wrote the book the Raven who survived was able to show that Jones was in Brazil for a time near where these agents were and this is the time that the property was acquired by several investors. The first thing to get put down there was a medical facility, etc. Fast fwd - Jones moves the Peoples Temple to CA. He builds up hos group of mostly Black females from various mental and hospital release programs etc. He used these people to generate a crowd presence for various politicians to help them get elected, etc. It was know they would practice these "white nights" years before they moved down to the property acquired years before. When Jones was down there, one of the sources of income was using their boat to help certain folks down there to run drugs and guns. It was known that most all of those people were shot with arrows and gun fire, hence why they immediately removed the initial autopsy guy and let those bodies rot in the sun. They had the military turn the bodies over and align them and leave them there for several days, as they did not want them to be identified as later when they body bagged them all (interesting book, not well written, but from a soldier who was responsible for help getting the bodies out ) - later them were buried in a mass burial grave. I had several years ago posted on UA-cam the progression of Tim Carter (former Marine) changing his story over the years, especially as more things got released - YT made me take it down, when all it was, was a collection of live media videos down at different points throughout time. Either the on the scene interviews in 78 when him and his brother Mike and another Mike (this Mike later conveniently committed suicide in a hotel bathroom after he invited the media to interview him - never mind the other random deaths from certain people associated with the group) were immediately released even though they had weapons and a mass amount of cash in two different currencies, etc, etc, etc. Never mind a reporter women who started digging into these things and had a serious amount of film footage - she got fired and footage went missing - amazing how that works. I could go on for hours, but hey if you think this was just one of those random cult groups - go ahead. I will never know all the details because like the Manson case many things have never been release or have been destroyed. Try finding out what happen to the all male black community that was living near Jonestown - the seemed to have disappeared off the map.
@Oona Craig Plus he was one of 3 congressman that wanted a panel to know what the CIA and others were doing in the 70's in that part of the world. They did not like that . . .
The book states just in passing that Rosemarie LaBianca was paranoid that people were breaking into her house and rearranging the furniture. Isn't this something that the Manson "Family" started out doing as pranks? I have heard that rumor. They thought it was hysterical that the "piggys" would wake up the next morning with no idea how their furniture was moved. If that's the case then there's a possibility one of the girls or Tex knew the house. I'm only a few chapters in but for somebody who spent 20 years on this, it sounds like you missed a few things that you could have explored. It also sounds like you had a few old drug dealers having fun bullshitting you.
Currently reading the novelization of, "Once Upon a Time In Hollywood". There is a chapter in it from one of the manson family members point of view. Her name was Pussycat. And she is ordered to do what's called, "a creepy crawl". She changed the light bulbs in the bedroom to red light bulbs. Then took off her clothes and jumped into their bed naked with the red lamp filling the room. I know the book mixes fiction with real life events. Definitely sounds like something they couldve done.
Vincent Bugliosi was a prosecutor who was sure of the guilt of the people he was going after and didn't want any reasonable doubt creeping into his case against Manson or the girls. It's not that hard to figure out why he may have not mentioned things that would not have made a difference about who did the actual murders but could introduce reasonable doubt into his case. A good defense could have gotten either Manson or the girls (probably not both) off with some of this information. I'm only a few chapters in but so far I want my Kindle credit back lol.
Bugliosi was a swell guy? Tell that catholic woman (Virginia Cardwell) who he got pregnant and forced to have an abortion. When she lied about getting it, he beat and threatened her. After that you can tell the family from the "milkman" case. He was an absolute asshole and if you read the book in its entirety you'll see. After this sham of a trial he decided to make a ton of money off of his lie by "writing" his book. Manson was by no means innocent, but he deserved a fair trial. Several people including Terry Melcher lied on the stand, there were last-minute switches in lawyers and deals were made with people that the prosecution later backed-out on.
Fascinating you think committing several felonies, including planting a prosecutor on a defense team, can be boiled down to "not mentioned things that would not have made a difference about who did the actual murders." Never mind the fact Bugliosi was a psychopath who stalked his milkman and beat the living shit out of his mistress so bad she had a miscarriage. This is why you don't comment on a book after reading a few chapters.
@@David-sl6xf If you knew the first thing about law at all you would know that any prosecutor is going to avoid reasonable doubt like the plague, which is what Bugliosi did. Yeah those other things about him are Nevermind because they had nothing to do with the Manson trial. He did what he was hired to do, got a conviction when there really was not evidence for one against Manson. This is why you don't comment on a comment when you don't understand law.
@@SuperOmnicronsj44 Jim Morrisons Father was the Rear Admiral of the ship involved in the Gulf of Tonkin incidence which brought us offically into the Vietnam War; later proven and revealed to not have happened , a false flag operation. "he who controls the media controls the mind" JDM
How is Jim Morrison connected to these murders? I've read in books that Cass Elliott's boyfriend was Pic Dawson, a small time drug dealer who knew Voyteck Frykowski. But how does the Lizard King Morrison figure into the Manson/Tate/Labianca tragedy?
@@kittykatz4001Tom said Jay Sebring knew Leno Labianca because he had styled his hair. if true I wonder if the Manson people went through their belongings at Ceilo Drive after the killings and stole items and found Jays address book (it was likely filled with famous people and randomly picked rosemary and Leno) also rosemarys daughter got to know Tex Watson and tried to get him paroled and knew his family. Some people say they may have known each other before the killings.
First chapter of book states Manson was 5'6" tall. Every other source states he was about 5'2". How is something that basic so incorrect right off the bat?
@@daveyrogers7336 I'm joking with you...from footage during the trial he looks REALLY short to me... I'm seeing 5'2" myself lol, but either way he's dead and gone, so...🤷♂️
@@killergoose7643 He claimed himself to be 5'6". Look at the photo after his arrest where he's standing next to a height chart. He's wearing the buckskin outfit. He's wearing boots and still not nearly 5'6". It's only a big deal because his height was such a makeup of his personality. It made him so vulnerable as a kid and young man so he was victimized for it. 5'6" was not considered that short in the 50s-60s when Manson was living his adult life. It would not have even been considered short, yet Charlie was considered short.
Shark B Well, paying to have a copy of this book isn’t the worst thing you could do...you could waste the important time you have reading it. Honestly, organizing my sock drawer would have been more interesting.
no, the manson family was arrested on other charges and BRAGGED about what they had done to another inmate and That's how they got caught....bugliosi didn't do much of Anything.other than lie and self aggrandize
Vince Bugliosi was in for his own fame and political power. He was trying to run for political office and was abusive toward women - he is not what you think he is. Bugliosi only succeeded because the LAPD was inept - and were deliberately drawn away from the case, and Sherrif of Inuoue County was the guy that really got the raid on the Spahn Ranch that netted Manson. Helter Skelter was just some story concocted that he pushed and got the best selling book deal out of it.
Absolute HOGWASH! Very easy to "deconstruct" a case based on evidence and testimony with conjecture and fantasy. Shocking how eager people are to lap it up
@@themasterswitch1603 I'm listening to the audio book for the 2nd time now on Spotify. After seeing many YT videos it becomes more clear. I have huge respect for Tom. It took alot of courage to write this book. Looking forward to the next one.
Only the weak and the gullible. If Manson had a talent, it was the ability to spot a mug at 100 yards. He conned idiots in 1969, and he’s still doing it today.
What he says about Terry Melcher is pretty disturbing. Is the conversation on a recording somewhere? Terry died of melanoma in 2004 and Doris Day was still alive until 2019. So, Terry Melcher is not here to defend himself and what he’s being accused of: perjury and a willingness to tell his mother’s secrets are both pretty horrendous. Perjury is illegal and telling his Mother’s secrets while she’s still alive is immoral and ugly. They remained close until he died. His fight against cancer was long and difficult, and painful. I wonder if Tom was at all aware of this. Something feels very off about Tom presenting Terry as a bad actor.
Maybe it was the fact that his mother WAS still alive was the reason that he lied? Think about that. This wasn't about his mother, it was about how many times he had been to see Manson.
@@tooberetta In the book ( Chaos ) it tells about a situation in Doris Days office ( She owned a small record company by the name of Day Records ), Doris was approached by Charles Manson ( In person ) and she kicked him out of the office in a dramatic scene, using harsh expletives .. Needless to say, she had 24 hour armed bodyguards for herself and Terry..
![Method Writing: The First Four Concepts - Jack Grapes [FULL INTERVIEW]](/img/n.gif)
Hands down one of the best books I’ve ever read. I can’t wait for O’Neill’s follow up book!
Wow, to say this guy worked hard on his book and went through maximum stress and obstacles is an understatement.
O'neill's book is a masterpiece of journalism.
Totally
.. I'm blown away! Tom is brilliant! How do you keep this must detail in your head? FIng amazing.. plus I love Tom's smile, I can how it helped me. He's basically a kind nature
Masterpiece or Masterbation?
It's good to see Tom is finally getting the attention he and his work deserves. I read the book in three days and I never thought, this went so far. It's all absolutely fascinating. Thanks Tom!
Your book has brought so much into the light!! I devoured it!! More!!! Sirhan...Ruby...Kennedy...Oh, my!!!
The book is phenomenal. Worth $15-20 bucks. Started listening on Audible after the Rogan interview. It's seriously mind-blowing 🤯
That Rogan interview interview was great.
I admire his tenacity. Stuff that true investigative reporters are made of! Can't wait to read the book.👍👍
Finished CHAOS yesterday. Gotta say I'm definitely joining the research effort, in fact that's what got me hooked. Knowing that even though I was going to learn a lot, there would not be a conclusion. Tom is running an Instagram now where he posts new findings and leads, been using it in tandem with the book and the internet to look further into things.
The author has integrity. 20 years of tracking down leads , documentation , eyewitnesses. He even spoke to Manson . Well worth the read although you may find it difficult to get .
20th century man: Yes, Oneill's adept at "tracking down" the false lead of a drug burn/robbery as the *_real_* reason for the TLB killings. Or listening only to witnesses who say what he wants to hear. Or desperately & unsucessfully trying to tie Jack Ruby and the CIA's MK-ULTRA to the Manson case. What a piece of work!
Tom O' is the right guy at the right time; no new journalist--if there are any new journalists--could do this kind of work. Keeping your head down and towing the company line has increasingly become the way.
For those of you who might be thinking of reading the book, I would definitely recommend it. Awesome bit of research and reportage. Plus the leftover research on the RFK killing will make a great addition to the recenty released book by Linda Pease.
BTW....this is an EXCELLENT book, a real spotlight on how our government "works" at various levels and the crimes it commits
Joe Rogan saying he’s a guest next week brought me here
Me too!
Rogan’s interview is great also
Mindboggling how little attention the book has received so far. It undoes the entire Helter Skelter narrative and basically corrected history and the narrative of the Tate-LaBianca-murders. Its an astonishing, dense and brillant piece of work. I suppose it needs to marinade in the subconciousness and will grow over the years in regards to relevance and importance.
but this is actually old stuff. Mabe Russell was all over this back in the 70s. I used to listen to Russell's acolyte Dave Emory talk this theory on highest IQ radio show ever called Somethings Happening on KPFK in Los Angeles.
@@IanPunter The book ties Manson to MKULTRA and operation chaos though, that's the point of it, not just poking holes in the fake narrative. Those intelligence operations weren't even known about in the 70s, they definitely didnt know the thousands of connections and details that are all new in this book
Horus It doesn’t tie Manson DIRECTLY to MKUltra or the CIA. There is no evidence there ever was a direct connection, regardless of what was going on in the Haight or the clinic where the girls got treated for their STDs. Tom ONeill basically admits this. Any direct connection is pure speculation.
Melanie Jarrett That is wildly overstated. Most of the original
comment you are replying to is.
@@EastSide-qc5oy Direct evidence of what his connection was isn't there, but his parole officer being an MKULTRA scientist is a connection that is not dubious or speculative. You could say it doesn't tie him "directly", but, we're talking about something that is inherently secretive and that kind of seems like arguing in bad faith
The most fascinating thing is how the real murderer of everyone seems to be disappeared in all the Manson stories over the years. That is Tex Watson. He knows everything yet I don't see any books about him or good in depth interviews. He is still alive and well. He is the real key to the real story.
Absolutely.
Especially because it seems he committed several other murders other than the ones in the Manson family case.
True
james rae: Watson was a subordinate, the reputed leader of the crew on the scene, but certainly not the leader of the whole gang.
@@stddisclaimer8020 Who gives a damn. What is your point. He is the killer. He also had his own game going on. He was not a lap dog to Manson. He also did not live at the ranch like the others. He had his own place. Watson knows everything and that is the point and you fucking know it. Don't bother responding if it is just shit on a stick because I will just point it back at you as I should.
The more I read Tom's book the more I listen to Manson interviews and hear it in a different way. Manson went to the grave claiming the prosecutor invented his theory and that he didn't get a fair trial. I think I concur
Great book tom read it a few times
Book is hard to get right now (early May).
Chaos? I just bought it from Amazon. $25
I'm reading his book and all of this is mentioned in the book. Really interesting book!
Great Book Tom! In Shane O’Sullivans book Who Killed Bobby, Jolly West is brought up with possibly being the radio man that Sirhan was meeting with. West was involved with Patty Hearst & the SLO. He saw Jack Ruby. Dig deep in books like Who Killed the King , James earl ray saw a hypnotist, the attempted assassin of Wallace saw a hypnotist. West was at the top of his game but their was more like West out their. Read the book who killed John Lennon. Russ Bakers masterpiece Family of Secrets about the bushes is a must Read. Another strange thing is that when the Manson Murders occurred Polanski was in England looking for a location to film a movie called the Day of the Dolphin. A movie about a dolphin trained to assassinate the president. In the nonfiction book The Search For The Manchurian Candidate it clearly states that their was a CIA doctor at that same time obsessed with training dolphins with hypodermic needles attached to them to kill enemy frogmen. ( I know off subject but strange) Has anyone ever wondered why the Author of the book Manson Files which is extremely expensive can’t find it cheaper then 200$ who opposes the CIA theory and Ed Saunders book called the Family because of the connection to the satanic church called the process avoids questions about Reece Whitson at all costs. Everyone needs to dig deep. Things like Manson mastered the highest level of Scientology in which it has been proven that Hubbard was in fact extremely close to Aleister Crowley who was working closely with the CIA for years. Even the fact that a big time la costa nostra (Mafia) member Carbo was very close with Manson is huge because the CIA has been working hand & hand with the Mafia since project underground and with Vito Genoese in Italy When Patton liberated it. The Mafia & the CIA again ran the drug trade together! Read Strength of the Wolf by Valentine. Labianca was a massive gambler in huge debts to the mafi. This rabbit hole is massive and these things just are not coincidental. Must reads are Acid Dreams, Operation Mind Control, Journey Into The Madness, The Search For The Manchurian Candidate, Cointelpro, The Secret Team, The Cult of Intelligence, The Devil’s Chessboard & Who Killed Bobby. I’m currently researching Jonestown & my podcast/Vlog is about to restart soon. Manson, Kennedy, Ruby, MLK, RFK, Malcom X, Lennon , Hoffa, assassination attempts on Wallace , the Pope ,Reagan by Hinckley ( friends with bush VP and former director of CIA after MK-Ultra was exposed) the connections are insane. Do the research the answers are there. Thank you Tom for your dedication, we look forward to the next book. In the CIA the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing. They portray this image that they are constantly screwing up. That’s all part of espionage. You only know what they want you to know. Everyone should listen to MAE BRUSSELS old radio shows. She was ahead of her time and this was her masterpiece. She covered all this. One of Oswalds CIA Handlers George De Morechildt was going to testify for the select house committee of assassination also had the same mental breakdowns extremely simuliar to rubys before committing suicide by shooting himself in the head with a shotgun before he could testify. Also Mobsters Rosseli and Gianicana both high level ranking members of the La Cosa Nostra who were hired by the CIA through CIA cutouts Jimmy Hoffa and Howard Hughes right hand man Robert Maheu were going to testify on that same committee were murdered conviently before they were going to testify. Giancana was the Godfather of the Chicago Outfit and Rosseli was almost untouchable running operations in Las Vegas and L.A. It is assumed that the mob killed them because they were going to break omerta which is the mafia oath of silence you take when you become a made man. With all my teams research we are positive that although the mafia most likely were involved in some compacity , the CIA called these hits because they had much more to lose then the mafia if the public became aware of The US government working so closely with the mafia. What a can of worms that would open. Also shortly after that Jimmy Hoffa disappeared. I wonder if Carbo ( friends with Manson and most likely the man who killed Bugsy Siegel) Knew and worked with Johnny Rosseli?
Got this book after seeing him on rogan, couldn't put It down. Incredible!!
just ordered mine
@key adams: I got the book "Helium, a Gas on the Rise." I couldn't put it down.
To each his or her own. This was the most boring book I’ve ever read. I couldn’t get through the first 4 chapters without falling asleep. Twice. After realizing the entire book reads on a 3rd grade level, I threw it away.
@@MeeMee-gz5vp Not only is O"Neill's book boring, but more importantly, for a book in the true crime genre, it contains no real truth.
@@stddisclaimer8020 Exactly. The author took common knowledge, twisted it in a desperate attempt to look intelligent, then stretched all that into a 500+ page novel... about nothing.
book ordered!
The Watson tapes are the key. I wish someone would leak them.
@Rob: Too late. Someone already "leaked" Manson's _Helter Skelter_ plan, rendering the Watson tapes moot.
@@stddisclaimer8020 No there's much more. This just scratches the surface
@@Adept179 The Watson tapes, the last gasp chance of Manson conspiracy kooks!
@@stddisclaimer8020 Yes and I'm all in with hearing them. Personally I've always felt the possibility the Tate thing was hoaxed, to haystack the Labianca one, which was so obviously a mob hit carried out by the Manson gang. If you've ever seen the crime scene photos of the Tate one they look faked.
@@Adept179 Leaving aside that horse's head in the Labiancas' bed, TLB "so obviously" had nothing to do with the mob. But you,quite obviously, do have a firm disconnect from reality, clinging to the security blanket of your own fantasy narratives.
Read this book
In ten years people will look at Manson completely different. Dude rotted in prison for a crime he should’ve served 10 years for.
These are the sort of conclusions you arrive at when you try to measure historical events with a modern yardstick. Such a myopic viewpoint.
I’m sure you’re a great person but that’s one of the most useless replies I’ve ever seen.
well, you have to take into account the chance of someone reoffending. sure, lots of ppl get less time for more hands on crimes, but i think manson would have reoffended 100%. he was the same lunatic until the day he died. you think there was ever a time in the past 30 years that he could have been safely released into society?
@@everwhat013 Are you completely missing the whole CIA angle to this and that to a large degree he was set up? And you don't keep people in jail for "possible recidivism." How is that any different than mind crime? I suggest you read the constitution...
He was actually convicted of two other murders (Gary Hinman and Donald Shea), in addition to the murder and conspiracy convictions in the Tate/La Bianca killings.
A super interview. Thank you.
I have a friend looking for Tom's book for me. Meantime...I have sources like you guys. Good job!
We have signed copies here:
livetalksla.square.site/product/chaos/341
You still need to find the book? I just finished reading my copy and it’s one hell of a read
I've got his book on Audible. Excellent!
What is the truth ? Tons of evidence ,agendas ,theories , lies. Where + how did Manson get money for all the drugs ? They were dumpster diving for food , living at an abandoned ranch . They must of had patrons Powerful ones .His probation was never revoked no matter how many felonies he committed . The more we learn the more questions .
@TermsofService Have you even bothered to read the author's Mr. O'Neill's book ? I have and more. What began as a 3 month magazine assignment turned into a 20 year investigation that discredits the official narrative backed up by interviews, documents, sources and evidence of a massive coverup .You seem to have a definite lack of familiarity with the subject matter . "Conspiracy Theory " is the best you can do ?
I grew up in that hollywood. Seeing a cleaned up Manson pop out of a limo wasn't unusual on the strip. I think there's a reason that alot of celebs were nervous. I don't believe it had that much to do with Charlie. $1000's worth of " primo " drugs don"t just happen.
@@20thcenturyman21 You are actually puffed up and pompous enough to think that if only someone reads a book you recommend, they'll think exactly like you? Keep your head buried in the fantasy world of hack authors who seek to profit off infamous murders, rational and reasonable folks do not care.
Manson was an informant with CIA protection. Similar events happened in College town/Boston. Governor Frank Sargent who assumed office in January 1969 worked with Natick Army Labs and Army intelligence in tracking 100's of Communist agitators. My cousin was on a payroll at UMass/Amherst under Governor Sargent doing drug busts and monitoring Pierponts Project 10.
Can't remember where I read this, but Elon Musk's mother put money on the books for the girls during the trials. There is a photo taken when the ranch was raided that she is in. Man i wish I could track that info down.
Fascinating interview and book! Joe Rogan podcast is also a must listen/watch.
The CIA involvement is almost unbelievable, but is it really?
No, not if you read about Tavistock.
had never believed in conspiracies. But it is a documented fact that the CIA had a programme called Chaos, and the FBI had one called Cointelpro. The objectives of both of those at-the-time secret operations were to destabilise the left-wing movement and make hippies appear dangerous. And if this was a government operation, then boy did they succeed. Suddenly, everybody looked at anyone with long hair and a beard as a possible Charlie Manson.
AMAZING BOOK!!! Genius.
What6a lovely guy, just finished their book and much love and respect from here in Cambridge, England..
I admire the way Tom O´Neill express his thaughts. "Funny" thing is that Manson, who was a racist, before the murdershung around with people like Dennis Wilson, Neil Young and others of the Laurel Canyon artists.
You know for a fact Manson was a racist? What do you mean he was a ‘racist’?
I mean anyone familiar with the case knows he hung with some successful musicians for a time. It’s not like any of that is a secret.
@@EastSide-qc5oy yeah and to hear it told by the Beach Boys: they were kinda scared of him. He would just be in their homes when they went home.
Datanditto None of them really liked Dennis hanging around Charlie and the girls so much. This is confirmed by Sandra Good.
I live in a very small town in new Mexico. No book store. One library with traditional waiting lists that are months long. I'll get there!
Order online? Lol
Audio book too maybe
amazon delivers. My copy of this book is on its way.
@Melanie Jarrett Thanks for the info. I'll check them out.
Yeah, Bugliosi is a scum bag. I've done quite of bit of personal research into the JFK assassination and he was totally wrong. Helter Skelter is the same tripe.
@Melanie Jarrett Bugliosi was a paid disinformation agent, one of several the CIA have put out there re: controversial/treasonous events to cloud the waters and keep the general public focused the more comfortable lies from the government instead of the uncomfortable truths.
I'd like to know what Doris Day an Frank Sinatra were up to.
yes
Read your book it's so interesting thank u x
I would be reticent to chalk anything up to "negligence" or incompetence. Nothing happens by accident in the political realm.
Nah there’s a lot of dumb shit
happening in the world because people are dumb. Why should politics be any different?
Tom, or anybody out there, how can we get to listen to the Tex tapes. All 20 hours of them.
we cant? Hes a hoaxter
You have no legal right to listen to them just because you want to.
Notice Tom keeps his political beliefs to himself.. That's was investigation looks like.
I mean he went into politics here pretty blatantly lol
@@jamiekelly6851 there’s a difference between covering politics and including your own personal political bias. He doesn’t give his own opinions about the politics, just facts.
A lot of spooks in the comment section 👻
Wouldn't be surprised to find out that manson was in the CIA developing those mind controlled soldiers for them
manson was in jail most of his life. Tex Watson is the one to focus on.
Manson CIA, no. Manson one of the many being used as a lab rat yes, huge possibility. Prisoners, mental hospital patients, and random unknown people in society were also used as "lab rats". Manson being one of them is definitely not far fetched. Toms research proves the probability is high. Manson speaks if it alot through his mumble jumble talk if you kisten closely. Hes just mostly ignored cuz of his crazy way of talking and the majority of people see him as solely a nut job and his words are dismissed. He does talk about how the "government doctors" stick needles in his arms and shit like that. I do believe we probably never will get the "Truth" but i respect the amount of research and different perspective tom has shown. The original bugliosi narrative makes no sense when you really dig deep. Tom may not be 100% but i believe he did find some correct information and worked real hard to give the most legit information to his ability. Having saud that, i have yet to read the book, i gather this from multiple interviews and years of personal curiosity and interest in this case. I cant wait to read the book and look forward to see what he managed to put together!
The audio sounds distant?
Hi i found it ok
The audio comes from camera - not PA system.
Yes. Very annoying.
Define distant...if you can.
Scott Gottlieb (pivotal in FDA during the pandemic) and Sidney Gottlieb look very similar, are they related?
That is a great question, and I'm glad people are paying attention to that Great Reset narrative.
Possibility of distant relation. Sidney Gottlieb had four children with his wife, Margaret. None are/were named Scott. Stephen Kinzer's book on Gottlieb reveals what is publicly known about his family.
I asked myself the same question
Great book. Page turner.
I've read Tom's book. It's good and full of trivia not heard or read in other books and interviews. But his primis that Manson was an Cia asset is totally unproven. But I enjoyed getting the truth out about Altobellis reasons for his house being the target. Also....Melcher was alot closer to the family than any book or Interviews has out on him. He (melcher) was obsessed with Ouish. (R.Moorehouse) and Tex was closer to the Altobelli/Melcher house than anyone has ever said. Any anti-helter skelter angle is just Irving Kanereks argument.
Freedom of Information, as we see fit. Freedom of Information, except this. Can we get the Freedom of Absolute Information Act. Will we ever hear the Tex Watson tapes? So much other video, and taped conversations on other cases, I would like to hear.
The tapes dont belong to the feds so that's a no go
I have read the book - somebody needs to take up the threads his investigation has uncovered.
Louis Jolyon West (October 6, 1924 - January 2, 1999) was an American psychiatrist involved in the public sphere. In 1954, at the age of 29 and with no previous tenure-track appointment, he became a full professor and chair of psychiatry at the University of Oklahoma College of Medicine. From 1969 to 1989, he served as chair of psychiatry at the University of California, Los Angeles School of Medicine and the UCLA Neuropsychiatric Institute.
Cornell University, where West completed his residency in psychiatry, was an MKUltra institution and the site of the Human Ecology Fund.[8][9] He later became a subcontractor for MKUltra subproject 43, a $20,800 grant by the CIA while he was chairman of the department of Psychiatry at the University of Oklahoma. The proposal submitted by West was titled "Psychophysiological Studies of Hypnosis and Suggestibility" with an accompanying document titled "Studies of Dissociative States".[10]
*LSD-related death of an elephant*
One of the more unusual incidents in West's career took place in August 1962. He and two co-workers attempted to investigate the phenomenon of musth in elephants by dosing Tusko, a bull elephant at the Lincoln Park Zoo in Oklahoma City, with LSD. They expected that the drug would trigger a state similar to musth; instead, the animal began to have seizures 5 minutes after LSD was administered. Beginning twenty minutes later, West and his colleagues administered the antipsychotic promazine hydrochloride; they injected a total of 2800 mg over 11 minutes. This large promazine dose was not effective and may have contributed to the animal's death. It died an hour and 40 minutes after the LSD was given.[11] Later, many theories developed about why Tusko had died. Some researchers thought that West and his colleagues had made the mistake of scaling up the dose in proportion to the animal's body weight, rather than its brain weight, and without considering other factors, such as its metabolic rate.[12][13] Another theory was that while the LSD had caused Tusko distress, the drugs administered in an attempt to revive him caused death. Attempting to prove that the LSD alone had not been the cause of death, Ronald K. Siegel of UCLA repeated a variant of West's experiment on two elephants; he administered to two elephants equivalent doses (in milligrams per kilogram) to that which had been given to Tusko, mixing the LSD in their drinking water rather than directly injecting it. Neither elephant expired or exhibited any great distress, although both behaved strangely for a number of hours.[
Tune in, turn on, copy n' paste.
@@stddisclaimer8020 *You have nothing of substance to say. No reason for you to comment.*
@@williamwhitten7820 No reason to comment? Take your own advice, conspiratard.
I bet Tom O'Neill was a decent chick magnet back in the day seeing the thumbnail I'm starting to get up there so I see how we changed over the years He mentioned in a different podcast about how he liked the 70s punk Ara mentioned the Ramones, and Patty Smith. He also told a pretty cool story of going up and partying with Marilyn Manson. I bet Tom was pretty cool back in the '70s ,and still is would be a fun guy to hang out with ?
@Boo well explains why he was probably a chick magnet Rock Hudson was gay look at all the p**** he got LOL I didn't know if he was or not I had my suspicions he's not a flamer ,or very flamboyant you can just tell that he was probably a decent looking man back in his twenties, and thirties
He goes to the toilet the same as you...or maybe he sits, who knows? Who cares. He’s a person, like you.
Bro, that dude's GAY. Great book though. Cool guy. He partied along with Marilyn Manson. Probably has some great stories.
@@SuperOmnicronsj44 yeah no shit maybe he goes both ways? I've always thought negative things about gays but as I get older Ive noticed how some men become distinguished looking shit I'm 50 had all the pussy I wanted in my younger days but notice how some of us can actually do better as older guys woman seem to like older men more so now than back in the day ?
Roger Vadim, Jane Fonda and Mama Cass refused to be interviewed by the Los Angeles police.
Cass Elliott at the time, was possibly the biggest drug dealer in Hollywood..
Jane Fonda and her husband Roger also refused to be interviewed by LA police.
The author explains in the interview with Joe Rogan that Jane Fonda, Mama Cass, Donald Sutherland and others were in support of the black panthers were raising money for them, and therefore they were being followed by the CIA and FBI. That’s one reason why they did not cooperate because they were The enemy, at least in Nixon’s mind and J Edgar Hoovers mind, because of the positions they were taking regarding Black activism and the war.
@Tiffany F. Doesn’t it almost seem as though Cass Elliot was somehow the “hub” of the freaky wheel whose spokes connected the Laurel Canyon crowd with the Manson crowd and the 1969-Cielo-party-house gang? According to Tom O’Neil’s book, Pic Dawson, Tom Harrigan and Billy Doyle (the latter being the recipient of the legendary “whipping and buggering” incident in the summer of '69) were all romantically involved with. . .Cass Elliot! Dennis Hopper-who was living with Michelle Phillips at the time-certainly had a lot to say about the freakiness that took place at Cass Elliot’s place and the Cielo Drive house in 1969.
@@1953childstar not even close.
9:50 what did he tell him that was disturbing and off the record?
Dm me, ill tell you the secret.....
It was sex stuff, apparently Polanski had ordered Sharon to be boned by two guys while he watched/filmed...the twist is that Bugliosi said he found the tape in the attic right after the murders and a cop told him to put it back where he found it...then...when he went back to the house in a prosecutorial role, he fished it back out and smuggled it out of the house...problem with that is...he wasn't brought on to the case that early on in the piece, that he would have been in the house -right after the murders...to have found it that first time...
It's another example of whatever happened and who knew what and when...is different to the official narrative.
@@jeremybartlett1706 NOPE! Polansky go to the house and take it away !!!after the murders !!
@@elsmeervd4893 nnnnope... Bugliosi was there (for an unknown reason, because he had no legal reason to be there right after the murders, at least not in a prosecutorial role) and a cop found the tape in the attic and told the cop to put it back... then months later, he went there as the prosecutor and took the tape and basically kept it under wraps... Polanski didn't have it... but, the thing we can at least agree on, is that we won't agree on anything... because of all the lies and cover up involved with every aspect of this story. If you don't agree with Tom O'Neill's version of events, I see no way we can agree. Have you read his book? Chaos... (etc regarding the 60's and the murders...)
That Piepenbring fellow has crazier eyes than Charlie
Tom seems pretty sharp. Do you think he's aware than Dan is his handler.
@@jeffwilliams196 wOW. Yeah it seems a little weird that this young guy just came in and got involved and really started to dominate and stuff I don’t know why like what is their relationship?
Will the truth ever fully come out?
no
Yes. And here it is briefly, Manson wanted to get Bobby bueselie out of jail, and he came up with a scheme of trying to blame black people for the crimes. They wrote it in blood on the walls.
No
I am reading this book, CHAOS, now -- and have to say the truth is most definitely in the process of coming out. The author has learned even MORE since the book's publication and hopes to put out a second book. There is so much in THIS book it is truly astonishing. The author didn't go from writing a magazine article to doing a full on 20-year investigation for no reason. He was finding lies -- and truths -- and one thing for certain is the HELTER SKELTER (the book and the movie) are just Bugliosi's made-up story to cover up what REALLY was going on behind the scenes in nearly all of the active players' lives, both criminal and those involved in law enforcement and the courts.
No
Can anyone tell me what word Tom is saying at 13:37? I hear "PAY-lo stink".
"The palest ink is better than the best memory" is an old Chinese proverb
This book is Freaking Amazing!! It manages to turn the whole Buglosi Helter Skelter narrative upside down, this is THE essential Manson Book to read, the only other that comes close is Ed Sanders's 'The Family'...it makes a great companion to 'Acid Dreams' by Martin A Lee, the most thorough account of the sordid history of the CIA's history with LSD and MKULTRA, operation MIDNIGHT CLIMAX and the time that the punchbowl was almost spiked with acid at a CIA christmas party back in the mid 50s...Mindblowing stuff...I hope the success of this inspires the eventual release of the tapes of the Tex Watson confession, likely the last chance we have to learn what really happened that night on Celio Dr.
Has it ever been proven (documented) that Manson or anyone else in the Family was part of the CIA's MK-Ultra or Chaos programs. I've seen that kind of documentation for Whitey Bulger. I've never seen any for Manson. Does O'Neill offer any EVIDENCE (documentation) in the book? Because it seems O'Neill's premise has a lot of holes in it.
@@paulhart3812 The book puts Manson and West at the HAFC where David and Roger Smith (Manson's parole officer) were running experiments on hippies.
He never is able to directly connect the two. Just that Manson succeeded in exactly what West was attempting.
@@paulhart3812 No Smoking Gun, but quite a lot of circumstantial evidence, such as whatever they were attempting at the Haight Ashbury Free Clinic, where Dr. Jolly was running his experiments at the time, as well as being Manson's Probation officer's base of operations...Also the fact that Manson and his girls were consistently released while committing multiple felonies while still on Federal Probation, which strongly suggests that they were being given a pass by someone much more prominent, for whatever reason. Manson and his family were also under an incredible amount of surveillance by multiple police agencies at the time of the murders, it seems implausible that someone wasn't monitoring their every move. At this late date I seriously doubt we will ever know the extent of what was actually going on, unless the tapes of Tex Watson's initial interview are ever made public, which may not happen in any of our lifetimes. Manson definitely seemed to be just as protected as Kyser Souze, and knowing what we now know about the extent of MKULTRA, a concerted effort to discredit those dirty hippie assholes once and for all, seems fairly plausible.
@@paulhart3812 All the documentation had been destroyed.. There has been such a "time issue". Many of the people "who knew the truth" are dead...
Paul Hart Absolutely no, it has not been proven. There is no evidence of a direct Manson/CIA connection but the speculations from ONeill’s book are enough for a lot of these people to count as “proof.”
Stephen Kay was at every single Manson parole hearing and he was probably Charlie's most vehement nemesis. If you watch the parole hearings here in UA-cam Charlie just says horrible things about Stephen Kay's mother under his breath etc...
Thomas Greaves: Never mind the "horrible things" that can be said about Kathleen Maddox (Manson's mother), which are 100% true.
@@stddisclaimer8020 We're all human beings; no need to imply that she never murdered, mutilated, etc... Some with nearly nothing try to do the best that can - most fail. I don't know about whether or not Kathleen failed or not; that's between her and her Prophet of her choice. She was a child herself when she birthed a child herself. Are you truly one to cast the proverbial first stone? Something in my heart tells me 'not you're not that one." Nor am i. Peace and true blessings for you and yours.
@@thomasgreaves354 It is clear (no need for implication) that Kathleen did not do the best she could, as it's outright obvious. Yes, she was a child once, and her mother was a child once, and her mother's mother was a child, and so on. That kind of thinking leads to an infinite regression, of shifting blame on to the previous generation. Someone, at some point in the continuum, needs to rise above all the inherited bad baggage and take some responsibility, and do the right thing. Plainly, Kathleen Maddox was not that person.
Boy! California sure was groovy back in 69'. With all the drugs, sex, murder, cia mindfuckery and all. ✌ baby.
The CIA organised the 60s.. Tavistock
SICK
What is the over/under on joe Rogan saying interesting, interesting when he interviews this guy . The line is 15
Grow a garden. Watch the water. Watch the air. They're micro dosing you everyday.
One problem. In three interviews, Manson himself said the murders at 10050 Cielo Drive happened because Terry Melcher lied and "broke a contract". Bobby Beausoleil said Manson told him personally (while the two shared a cell during the Hinman trial) that Cielo Drive was targeted because of Melcher.
You believe Charles Manson?
@@melko1408 ... Manson was corroborated by Susan Atkins and Bobby Beausoleil. Both said Melcher was the reason for the killings at Cielo Drive.
@@paulhart3812 you believe a celebrity book author you mental midget?
@@paulhart3812 Do you realize that our "Beloved Doris Day" had a bad encounter with Manson. I am surprised she was not murdered. She had a small record company "Day Records " and Manson wanted her to "sign him".. She angrily told him to get the F---- out... Yes, our Doris !!!
@@1953childstar Her reputation was sitting behind a stone wall! It was known in the industry!
We are living THE LIE
I really appreciate that O’Neill spent 20 years doing this research… We don’t have enough real reporters these days… It’s just Talking Heads and UA-camrs and Podcasters but very few people doing the actual legwork… That said, the book is a little disappointing… Having watched numerous interviews with the Manson family women there’s no reason to believe the official account of events difference from reality… the book is a fun read, but entirely inconclusive… Manson was a charismatic ConMan who took a tremendous amount of LSD… His motive was ridiculous and insane, but so was he… his followers were entirely enthralled…
I would say the book is also about the failure & compliance of the criminal "justice" system. Tom said it himself that he couldn't point the finger & be wrong. Or present information that he couldn't actual prove. Look at how much evidence has disappeared in many cases, nothing is ever done.
Dan P. Worked on the Prince book. "The Beautiful Ones" an odd title considering he has to have just read extensivly about the Calhoun rat experiments. Does he think Prince is a "beautiful one".?...it has such a depressing and tragic context.
how is prince a beautiful one?
It’s called “The Beautiful Ones” after one of Prince’s classic songs.
Chaos is the only book that tells the truth about the Manson case. All the rest of those books are complete trash.
The link does not work
I found a copy at my local library - definitely worth reading
Why doesn't Tom go directly to the source and interview Van Houten, Krenwinkle and WATSON? Why didn't he try to interview Manson more?????
He did but manson told him to piss off when he found out who he'd been talking to and what the story he was aiming to tell was.
Manson wasnt a snitch.
Those people were all pawns, or low-level operatives.
You can tell that, because they're the ones who went to prison.
I would suggest that someone might look into the families of those you named, because they might find a common link.
It’s kind of funny that O’Neill stated in an interview that Bugliosi was also a pawn, but that he enjoyed what he was doing too much. Hence, O’Neill made him out to be an arch villain. LAME
@@douglasbell8408 I see him more as the puppet master with stings attached to him also. In many ways I feel bad for him, what a horrible life.
If you have an amazing book, you should never shorten it to 500 pages, you should get every bit of information that you have on there , even if it’s 1500 pages. Trust me, we the readers would love that !!!!
Publishers like a second book, like with hit singles.
22:48 insecure women fall for a charismatic jawline
Tex wouldn't talk to Tom. They are all trying to be paroled, all of the family and are afraid it will compromise.
Tex was the actual killer. He was the one who murdered all of those people ... the nice preppy football player, from Texas.
Manson was the biggest patsy in all of juridical history. He killed no one, but took the fall.
The interview tapes of Tex Watson disappeared, they were either destroyed or in the possession of someone..
@@MatewanMassacreManson killed SHORTY,and a man he threw down the WELL @ SPAHN RANCH (WITNESSED BY DENNIS WILSON.)
I HAVE STUDIED THIS CASE SINCE AGE 7 (1973).
WHY DON'T YOU GET YOU'RE FACTS STRAIGHT!!!
300,000 pages wow talk about foot notes.
He said 30,000
Bought it, read it, still confused, but enjoyed it!
Tom’s a hunk.
Manson HIMSELF said in several interview that "Sharon Tate and the others died because Terry Melcher broke a contract and sent three Orientals to Spahn's Ranch with hatchets to kill someone." That person (who Manson calls the "Blonde-Haired, Blue-Eyed Oriental") and his two assistants were, in deed, sent by Melcher to Spahn's Ranch, but not to kill Manson. They were sent there to record Manson's music with a mobile recording studio in mid-June 1969.
Someone in the Family gave this "Oriental" (whose initials are MD) an overdose of LSD, and he freaked out, thinking Manson's music was demonic, and that Manson himself was the Devil. He tried to impale Manson with a pitchfork and a hatchet while screaming "stay out of the music business or I'll cut your head off." Manson said "Melcher sent this clown over to me, and he wanted to fight. So I ran behind a shed." If Bruce Davis and Steve Grogan didn't stop this guy (MD)... Manson wouldn't been impaled. Manson added: "To Terry Melcher, this guy was THE MAN. He's not the MAN to me. Put him in San Quentin, and he's not the MAN." Manson gets very upset and emotional just recalling this incident in his 1994 interview with Bill Scanlon Murphy. The event was very traumatic for him.
So when asked WHY the Cielo Drive house was chosen, Manson always mentions this Blonde-Oriental (who was sent by Melcher) to KILL him. That's why Manson says the killings at Cielo Drive were RETALIATION for that murder attempt on him at Spahn's Ranch.
Manson is the only person that collaborate this...possibly he didn't really know why he ordered his minions to kill everybody in that house. Terry lied on the stand.
How well does Vince pay?
Never heard that in any interview I've seen
@@robertayoder2063 ... Roberta. Check out the interviews with Ron Reagan Jr. and Bill Scanlon Murphy.
Ececent
X
Sure was creepy when Ariel asked if this could happen in 21st century. OMFG! We need a million Tom O;Neills. The reason this was allowed to come out was that it didn't involve Israel and was directed against alleged conservatives.
What are you talking about? 🤦♂
This dude seems like he’s CIA. Wouldn’t be surprised if this was all some way of declassifying this to the public but still withhold plenty of information.... I could just be going crazy🤨😂
Like seriously, this guy claims to find someone on witness protection from the fucking mob, by simply using Google🤨🤨😂😂😂
Which dude? Tom Or Dan? Tom seems ok to me. I'm suspicious of Dan.
@@jeffwilliams196 yeah, dan got the job to ' ghost write ' prince's autobiography, and Prince o.d.'s.. supposedly, prince just read an article written by dan, and had an over the phone formal talk with dan, and hired him.. I'm just trying to figure out how he happens to be tied to Prince, and this book by Tom.. I will eventually read the book.. Seems like he left a lot out of the book though. Using page count and getting info after the writing of the manuscript, and simply not wanting to include certain stuff as an excuse, for not telling everything he's learned.. Why not write a second book?
Justin Thompson not Google, in the book he explains a PI trained him to skip trace for people. Entirely possible as I have done it for a living myself.
bustergoldenrod im very familiar with skip tracing, we’re talking about witness protection program though, not some long lost family member or friend you went to highschool with 35 years ago.
I heard O'Neill on C2C AM last night say Bugliosi was anti-conspiracy, but, in fact, Bugliosi was very ambiguous and contradictory because he was against the Manson conspiracy, as he would naturally be since he was the prosecutor, but he was in favour of the JFK conspiracy because he was in denial of it knowing very well it was real so he was protecting it, doing the bidding of the government. Also, O'Neill said that he (speaking of himself) found conspiracies to be nonsense and avoided them, so then why did he cover the Manson conspiracy, and why would he think they were nonsense since he was covering one, and they are recognized by law? He himself said the Manson Family was charged with conspiracy and convicted of it. Let's not lose sight of the fact that the idea the Manson Family were the perpetrators is a conspiracy theory, just as is any police and prosecution accusation of conspiracy.
The fact of conspiracy behind both the JFK hit and the manson family are beyond question at this point (actually very long ago). People need to come to grips with the way our government and media REALLY OPERATE. You're living a life of delusion otherwise.
@Capt Zdq: You throw around the word conspiracy like you have no inkling what it actually means. You don't. Moreover, you show an amateur DIY sleuth's bees-in-the-bonnet understanding of Vince Bugliosi and the Manson case. Stay away from it if you comprehend so very little.
the moderator and subject immediately fell all over themselves to hand-wave against *"conspiracy"* but the book itself is conspiracy lore. i'm reading it now for free on my dad's Scribd account. every time something like this comes out, i miss Dave McGowan a little more -- his *Programmed to Kill: The Politics of Serial Murder* and
*Weird Scenes Inside The Canyon: Laurel Canyon, Covert Ops & The Dark Heart Of The Hippie Dream* are must-read.
@@ringkite Here's another "hand wave" to dismiss O'Neill's crass attempt to cash in on an infamous set of murders. It's nothing but speculative garbage, as are the other conspiracy peddling books you mentioned. A MUST THROW-IN-THE-TRASH!
@@stddisclaimer8020 please ease up on the caffeine
Joe “chaos is a warm run” Rogan
Like a lot of these people who spread possibilities, maybe's and what ifs. Occasionally mixed with certainties. They all have the celebrity and the cash that comes along with it. There is too much hearsay in this guy's "facts." People it seems want to believe in conspiracies. That's why I'm here. And why I've heard him share his beliefs on two other occasions. But the more i listen the less i believe this guy. Or like him.
Have you read the book? Just curious and want to know what you particularly disagree with.
@@marcusshera1232
He didn't, I would bet money it. You can view the documents for yourself, Tom backs up what he's saying
CIA
The Jonestown murders in '78 surely did and there was tons covered up in the event, one obvious thing was getting rid of troublesome Ryan. I would argue in some ways it had even more impact than Manson
The only reason Jonestown has any echos of Cia is the amount cyanide and other drugs the group was allowed to get. Otherwise...it's just a cult
@@johnnynobuddy1 Umm I think you need to dig in that a little more mate. I used to think that too until the tapes were released via the FOIA especially I believe it is the q42 tape where, amazing it did not get deleted from the tape, Jones is telling them to get the CIA agent who traveled down there with Congressman Ryan out of there. The "official" story was this guy was suppose to be with Ryan up at the airport on there way out of there - obviously not. It is obvious from the tapes that the CIA guy that flew down there with Ryan was to make sure of at least a couple of things, Ryan gets killed and the people at Jonestown die. Another factor is that they scouted out that property even before Jones had moved the group to California. The reported who wrote the book the Raven who survived was able to show that Jones was in Brazil for a time near where these agents were and this is the time that the property was acquired by several investors. The first thing to get put down there was a medical facility, etc. Fast fwd - Jones moves the Peoples Temple to CA. He builds up hos group of mostly Black females from various mental and hospital release programs etc. He used these people to generate a crowd presence for various politicians to help them get elected, etc. It was know they would practice these "white nights" years before they moved down to the property acquired years before. When Jones was down there, one of the sources of income was using their boat to help certain folks down there to run drugs and guns. It was known that most all of those people were shot with arrows and gun fire, hence why they immediately removed the initial autopsy guy and let those bodies rot in the sun. They had the military turn the bodies over and align them and leave them there for several days, as they did not want them to be identified as later when they body bagged them all (interesting book, not well written, but from a soldier who was responsible for help getting the bodies out ) - later them were buried in a mass burial grave. I had several years ago posted on UA-cam the progression of Tim Carter (former Marine) changing his story over the years, especially as more things got released - YT made me take it down, when all it was, was a collection of live media videos down at different points throughout time. Either the on the scene interviews in 78 when him and his brother Mike and another Mike (this Mike later conveniently committed suicide in a hotel bathroom after he invited the media to interview him - never mind the other random deaths from certain people associated with the group) were immediately released even though they had weapons and a mass amount of cash in two different currencies, etc, etc, etc. Never mind a reporter women who started digging into these things and had a serious amount of film footage - she got fired and footage went missing - amazing how that works. I could go on for hours, but hey if you think this was just one of those random cult groups - go ahead. I will never know all the details because like the Manson case many things have never been release or have been destroyed. Try finding out what happen to the all male black community that was living near Jonestown - the seemed to have disappeared off the map.
@@theemptyatom Das speech writer hath sprekent.
@@johnnynobuddy1 das commenter hath commekent
@Oona Craig Plus he was one of 3 congressman that wanted a panel to know what the CIA and others were doing in the 70's in that part of the world. They did not like that . . .
The book states just in passing that Rosemarie LaBianca was paranoid that people were breaking into her house and rearranging the furniture. Isn't this something that the Manson "Family" started out doing as pranks? I have heard that rumor. They thought it was hysterical that the "piggys" would wake up the next morning with no idea how their furniture was moved. If that's the case then there's a possibility one of the girls or Tex knew the house.
I'm only a few chapters in but for somebody who spent 20 years on this, it sounds like you missed a few things that you could have explored. It also sounds like you had a few old drug dealers having fun bullshitting you.
You probably shouldn't comment on a book you've barely started.
@@David-sl6xf Nothing about that was mentioned in the rest of the book. You probably should not get snarky with 3 month old comments.
That is correct regarding the "family" starting out as breaking into homes as pranks at the beginning. Susan Atkins stated that, herself.
Currently reading the novelization of, "Once Upon a Time In Hollywood". There is a chapter in it from one of the manson family members point of view. Her name was Pussycat. And she is ordered to do what's called, "a creepy crawl". She changed the light bulbs in the bedroom to red light bulbs. Then took off her clothes and jumped into their bed naked with the red lamp filling the room. I know the book mixes fiction with real life events. Definitely sounds like something they couldve done.
That's in helter skelter.
The Labiancas house had been creepy crawled several times. It's mentioned in both the H.S. book and the movie.1976
Vincent Bugliosi was a prosecutor who was sure of the guilt of the people he was going after and didn't want any reasonable doubt creeping into his case against Manson or the girls. It's not that hard to figure out why he may have not mentioned things that would not have made a difference about who did the actual murders but could introduce reasonable doubt into his case. A good defense could have gotten either Manson or the girls (probably not both) off with some of this information. I'm only a few chapters in but so far I want my Kindle credit back lol.
Bugliosi was a swell guy? Tell that catholic woman (Virginia Cardwell) who he got pregnant and forced to have an abortion. When she lied about getting it, he beat and threatened her. After that you can tell the family from the "milkman" case. He was an absolute asshole and if you read the book in its entirety you'll see. After this sham of a trial he decided to make a ton of money off of his lie by "writing" his book. Manson was by no means innocent, but he deserved a fair trial. Several people including Terry Melcher lied on the stand, there were last-minute switches in lawyers and deals were made with people that the prosecution later backed-out on.
@Melanie Jarrett Thanks, Melanie. I hope that the last things that went through his head were the things you brought up.
Fascinating you think committing several felonies, including planting a prosecutor on a defense team, can be boiled down to "not mentioned things that would not have made a difference about who did the actual murders."
Never mind the fact Bugliosi was a psychopath who stalked his milkman and beat the living shit out of his mistress so bad she had a miscarriage. This is why you don't comment on a book after reading a few chapters.
@@David-sl6xf If you knew the first thing about law at all you would know that any prosecutor is going to avoid reasonable doubt like the plague, which is what Bugliosi did. Yeah those other things about him are Nevermind because they had nothing to do with the Manson trial. He did what he was hired to do, got a conviction when there really was not evidence for one against Manson. This is why you don't comment on a comment when you don't understand law.
@@nielsmeijer6698 Nobody said he was a swell guy.
Anyone else NOT trust Dan Piepenbring??? He seems super shady, why was he brought into this?
I think Jim Morrison and Cass Elliot were the masterminds.
Just pawns. Morrison came out of Laurel Canyon and was connected to the military as well as Sharon Tate.
@@SuperOmnicronsj44 Jim Morrisons Father was the Rear Admiral of the ship involved in the Gulf of Tonkin incidence which brought us offically into the Vietnam War; later proven and revealed to not have happened , a false flag operation. "he who controls the media controls the mind" JDM
How is Jim Morrison connected to these murders?
I've read in books that Cass Elliott's boyfriend was Pic Dawson, a small time drug dealer who knew Voyteck Frykowski.
But how does the Lizard King Morrison figure into the Manson/Tate/Labianca tragedy?
I think Jay Sebring was a mastermind. I just found out Jay was Jim Morrison’s hair stylist! Wow!
@@kittykatz4001Tom said Jay Sebring knew Leno Labianca because he had styled his hair. if true I wonder if the Manson people went through their belongings at Ceilo Drive after the killings and stole items and found Jays address book (it was likely filled with famous people and randomly picked rosemary and Leno) also rosemarys daughter got to know Tex Watson and tried to get him paroled and knew his family. Some people say they may have known each other before the killings.
While I love the integrity he seems to have regarding his research, to say he totally indoctrinated his writing partner politically is concerning.
First chapter of book states Manson was 5'6" tall. Every other source states he was about 5'2". How is something that basic so incorrect right off the bat?
You're nitpicking dude 🙄
@@randalclarke5487 Not at all. That was a very basic makeup of Manson's personality. He was a tiny guy. That 4" makes a lot of difference.
He's listed as 5'6 everywhere I can see.
@@daveyrogers7336 I'm joking with you...from footage during the trial he looks REALLY short to me... I'm seeing 5'2" myself lol, but either way he's dead and gone, so...🤷♂️
@@killergoose7643 He claimed himself to be 5'6". Look at the photo after his arrest where he's standing next to a height chart. He's wearing the buckskin outfit. He's wearing boots and still not nearly 5'6". It's only a big deal because his height was such a makeup of his personality. It made him so vulnerable as a kid and young man so he was victimized for it. 5'6" was not considered that short in the 50s-60s when Manson was living his adult life. It would not have even been considered short, yet Charlie was considered short.
We have no idea what you are talking about until several minutes in.
Too much creepy, not enough crawl.
He asks for off the record stuff then he puts it on the record? That’s journalistic suicide.
The man is committed. I respect it
Shariq Butt
I just read the book...don’t waste your money if you haven’t.
@@ckom0007 why? I didnt buy it yet but put on my list
Shark B
Well, paying to have a copy of this book isn’t the worst thing you could do...you could waste the important time you have reading it. Honestly, organizing my sock drawer would have been more interesting.
@@ckom0007 ok but why
But Vince Bugliosi got them locked up & should have. He did his job well. Period. The Helter Skelter part of the story is definitely an element.
no, the manson family was arrested on other charges and BRAGGED about what they had done to another inmate and That's how they got caught....bugliosi didn't do much of Anything.other than lie and self aggrandize
What an incredibly ignorant comment. Wow.
Some of them
Vince Bugliosi was in for his own fame and political power. He was trying to run for political office and was abusive toward women - he is not what you think he is. Bugliosi only succeeded because the LAPD was inept - and were deliberately drawn away from the case, and Sherrif of Inuoue County was the guy that really got the raid on the Spahn Ranch that netted Manson. Helter Skelter was just some story concocted that he pushed and got the best selling book deal out of it.
Absolute HOGWASH! Very easy to "deconstruct" a case based on evidence and testimony with conjecture and fantasy. Shocking how eager people are to lap it up
Hogwash? Were you born in a 1950s TV show?
Have you read his book?
@@themasterswitch1603 I'm listening to the audio book for the 2nd time now on Spotify. After seeing many YT videos it becomes more clear. I have huge respect for Tom. It took alot of courage to write this book. Looking forward to the next one.
Does ANYone buy this garbaaaaage ?
Only the weak and the gullible. If Manson had a talent, it was the ability to spot a mug at 100 yards. He conned idiots in 1969, and he’s still doing it today.
You guys are pretty daft. Im sure you believe every official story you hear. Go watch your CNN clowns.
Yes
@@Datanditto Dont be naive
@@ramosmceligot6223 of course
What he says about Terry Melcher is pretty disturbing. Is the conversation on a recording somewhere?
Terry died of melanoma in 2004 and Doris Day was still alive until 2019.
So, Terry Melcher is not here to defend himself and what he’s being accused of: perjury and a willingness to tell his mother’s secrets are both pretty horrendous.
Perjury is illegal and telling his Mother’s secrets while she’s still alive is immoral and ugly. They remained close until he died.
His fight against cancer was long and difficult, and painful. I wonder if Tom was at all aware of this.
Something feels very off about Tom presenting Terry as a bad actor.
Maybe it was the fact that his mother WAS still alive was the reason that he lied? Think about that. This wasn't about his mother, it was about how many times he had been to see Manson.
@@tooberetta In the book ( Chaos ) it tells about a situation in Doris Days office ( She owned a small record company by the name of Day Records ), Doris was approached by Charles Manson ( In person ) and she kicked him out of the office in a dramatic scene, using harsh expletives .. Needless to say, she had 24 hour armed bodyguards for herself and Terry..
@@artsahobby123Terry should've been prosecuted for perjury,and wasn't because it would've opened a can of worms for a MISTRIAL!!!