If I understood that right, the voltages on the rotor are trial and error, limited by the 12V on the stator. Is there a way to calculate the perfect ratio for the two voltages? What specs might we need to do that? Is the ratio linear or does it change by the amount of voltage put on the rotor?
finally someone that explanes it in detail. not just a video of them cutting wires removing stuff and never saying a word. thanks i am going to try this today.
You’re the best presenter because you talk as you demonstrate. Others are doing like magicians. Its up to the viewer to interpret if he is good enough to pick up.
This is an excellent video despite some of the terminology being wrong (as various commenters have pointed out ad nausea). I like the fact that you showed exactly what you were doing and the result. I have some theoretical background in how everything works so I don't care about all that. I just wanted to see how you take it apart to get an idea of how complicated the process is. Keep up the good work!
Actually, the voltage on the rotor will only influence the maximum torque the "motor" will exhibit. The reason speed is lower when using two cells to power the rotor is that the rotor draws too much current, hence a drop of voltage for the electronic driver which feeds the 3ph stator. This is why there is an electronic regulator to control the rotor current. The way to set the current on the stator is you must feed as much current as necessary so that no slippage arise. Some 3ph drivers have a power input separate from the supply input such that you can put the power input in series with the rotor winding. This way the rotor is then feed with a current dependent on the power required by the driver. Otherwise you need to drive the rotor current determined by another electronic circuit. Or use a resistor to limit the current, but this method will loose battery power into heat from the resistor. Be careful not to feed too much current into the rotor for it can easily burn. Great video. Thanks for sharing.
I keep coming back to your video because you get to the point without telling me how good you are. Really appreciate the simple list of components required
The two brushes connect to the the slip rings on the rotor. What you call the "Middle part ". It rotates, and is a rotor. The stater is stationary and outside the rotor mounted in the housing.
Good video, nitpicking comments notwithstanding. When retrofitting an alternator to a completely different application, what might be some drawbacks to replacing the cast iron housing to aluminum. Benefits I have in mind are weight and cooling. Edit .. new sub, hope you make more vid. Thanks.
Cheapest way to power up a DIY small multihull fishing 🎣 platform. Recycling Alternators to motors......... thank you for sharing your videos. I can use this information to power my home built boat 🚣♀️. Peace
At 5:15 ,The copper slip rings are not for the stator. They provide a current path for the field, which is wound on the rotor. The part that spins. The field requires only a small current to excite the main output coils that are wound on the stator ; the stationary coils, which produce 3-phase alternating current. The diode- triple converts the A/C into ripple DC, which charges the battery. Vehicle alternators do not make efficient motors. Not designed for that purpose. The pulley shaft on most of them are not even keyed for the purpose of driving the pulley, but rely solely on the shaft nut to squeeze the pulley to the shaft. Even under load, the rotor does not require a large amount of torque to rotate. Real motors require a key way or spline shaft to drive a load, as well as a ruggedly built rotor.
The center part that spins is called a "rotor", because it rotates.... sometimes it is called an armature. A stator is from the latin root word "static" meaning it does not move... it is the laminated iron part with copper windings around the outside of the device. In this instance the stator is obscured by the casing. Also, you put the brushes back in, so not really brushless eh?
I think it's technically it's a bldc with electromagnetic rotor. And if you have a way of replacing the rotor with permanent magnets.. is love to hear about that... Maybe you have a better way of adding power to the rotor to give it a electromagnetic charge? The stator needs a field to push upon our is but going to spin..
Thanks a lot for this video. I knew the theory of converting alternator into a BLDC motor but I was not sure about overheating by lower RPMs (which means lower frequency.) One of my customers asked me how to do that so I sent him Your video. You did really good job.
But brushes don’t interrupt the current into rotating coils as in normal brushed motor. There is only one pole and rotor coils work like a permanent magnet.
@@wifie9321 The brushes only provide current to the rotor to operate the electromagnet, since it doesn't have permament magnets. Only a small current passes through the brushes, and the main motor current does not. The rest of it operates the exact same way as a brushless DC motor.
@@davelowets but it has brushes to provide power. Without them it cannot work unless you replace parts. Until the magnet is replaced to eliminate this problem, it is a brushed DC motor.
You need to re-title this. "How to use a car alternator as a motor with electronic speed control" maybe? To make it brushless you'd need to replace the wound rotor with a permanent magnet one.
@@dave95377 so your missing the point of the brushes, they are pretending to be the permanent magnets.. if the winding is a reverse stator, you need the center piece to act like the permanent magnet, so you add a DC voltage to the center piece and it here a magnetic field so the electro magnetic field from the three ac wires have a magnetic field to push against.. you could always the center shaft out and replace it with permanent magnets... But don't have a clue how to accomplish that feat of manufacturing in as short a time as adding DC power to it instead.. it's actually kind of genius, cuz making that center piece into day a 4 pole permanent magnet in my garage would be impossible, especially if I wanted to spin that up to 2000 rpms. The DC brushes are a excellent substitute.
Can you show the circuit diagram including the stator connected to the ESC and what ESC did you use. I presume the ESC provides a 3 phase supply to the stator and supply DC to the rotor via brushes and slip ring to the batteries
Changing the field voltage (the dc voltage) is like changing the motor Kv. Higher voltage means lower Kv and lower voltage means higher Kv. Permanent magnet motors can't change Kv on the fly but this type of motor (with a wound rotor and controllable field) can.
Very bold and with rudimentary tools. Scrap yards cur the wire coming out of the alternator because unscrewing the nut usually break the insulator. I recommend grinding the nut. (Penetrating fluid may work but you usually end up breaking the insulator. Then game over! )
At 10:05 Your putting back together the brushes. The first brush bolts down to ground or the body of the alternator. The 2nd one I believe you've installed correctly with insulators on both sides of the mounting hole. Ultimately you'll need to solder on wires to both brushes so you can apply dc currenT TO THE ARMATURE. eITHER THAT OR BUY A CUSTOM MAGNETIC ARMATURE AND HAVE AN ACTUAL PERMENANT MAGNET BLDC.
WHAT AN EXCELLENT VIDEO! MAKING A BRUSHLESS ELECTRIC MOTOR CAN HAVE MANY APPLICATIONS. I BELIEVE POWER AVAILABLE IS ONLY BASED ON SIZE SPEED CONTROLLER YOU CHOOSE, AND THE AMOUNT OF BATTERY VOLTAGE YOU APPLY.
Until you exceed a voltage the insulation on the windings can withstand, arc through the insulation & create a short circuit... or overheat the windings, melting the insulation and creating a short circuit. Given that the armature shaft is steel, it's gonna produce a whole bunch of eddy currents. Eddy currents produce a great deal of heat. Think of a large air core inductor with a piece of steel passed inside while it's energized. While I don't doubt that an automotive alternator can be over amped/over voltage, there are limitations to doing so... for our own safety. The wire gauge of the windings would be a quick way to get an approximate safe maximum input/output. The more voltage used, the greater chance of arcing. The more amperage used, the greater chance of overheating.
@@kaisersose5549 … or overspeed the bearings, or overload them or the windings with too much load. Typically, a motor will stall first in the latter condition, but an alternator may be more lightly built than a typical motor. The original wattage rating of the alternator should be a good indication of the motor's limits.
The coil in the middle is called the rotor. Those brushes are at if not very close to end of life. You should have to load them with spring pressure to make sure there is contact. You could have intermittent contact if they are super worn and judging from the strong moon curve in them, they are pretty worn. The STATER is the larger windings that run along the outer part of the workings. The plus terminal on the brushes is called the field. Typically controlled by the voltage regulator, (That piece you broke off) working in a way that a small applied voltage renders a multiplied voltage on the output, provided the rotor is turning. I'm questioning if the voltage to the rotor was backwards but it was hard to see how you had them wired to the battery pack. FYI, you don't even have to run a power rotor, you can replace the coils with magnets, like a motor. I used to work on an assembly line for a reman shop. I found this video pretty educational however.
The vehicle alternator is a very special design of generator in that the field and armature (rotor) are REVERSED so the rotor/armature is now the field and the fixed outer coil now functions as the armature. This unique rotor is known the alternator-claw design, aka bear-claw and supplies much higher current to the battery and at a lower RPM.
Hi guys. Would reverse go via the controller? I found a fairly big unit from a Cat engine. It has ac connections on the outside already. Do I still tear it apart?
can't get my head around one thing, how do limit ur speed range, i'm working on the same project more or less, but i'm using an arduino board and a potentiometer, and I still get a really high output frequency of the ESC(1KHZ). I only need 60HZ
If you take a brush wire and wire to winding and wire the other 2 windings together the one winding is negative and one brush wire positive and only need on 12 volt feed for both
Hi, At 3.30am you told to explain the different alternators in a next video. I have disassembled a stator from a 24V 120A alternator to measure each coil. in total there are now 12 separate wires coming out of the stator. How can I reassemble it into a star configuration? I'd be happy to send a photo if possible. Thanks in advance!
Speed will match the AC output of the ESC. Speed is limited by back EMF from the stator. It cannot exceed power supply voltage. Delta tends to have lower voltage than Wye but greater torque. Lowering brush voltage will weaken the field and allow greater RPM but with less torque.
There’s a little detail that caught my attention. The 2 wires connected to the brushes… aren’t the windings around that metal screw changes something in the current provided to the coil? I dont know if only few turns like this would be enough to change anything..? If somebody here can answer that question please let me know!
Good stuff. I have an old, but good condition alternator from an old Mitsubishi V3000. I want to maybe make my old bicycle into a E-Bike by using this method.
I would like to know if it works as well and if at 36volts does it produce enough torque to pull a person because my bike is currently 65pounds with a single hub motor on it I want to make a awd with the rear driven by alternator motor on either chain or possibly belt driven like the surons segways ect
A guy has already done that FYI - but there may be others - but it's not possible to view every YT channels and contents thereof - and you probably just missed it but I'm interested in Alternator conversions for the reasons I've covered in my comment above to the host of this Channel - so I've simply selected this one [the only one I viewed ] for you - to show the possible pitfalls and/or success of the project - which seems quite do-able nevertheless. A link to that vid - From my You Tube viewing history: Bicycle Conversion using a 10,000 Watt Car Alternator 1,085,836 views Oct 15, 2021 "In this DIY project video we are going to convert our bicycle into an electric one. We are going to use a car alternnator that we have converted to a permanent magnnet brushless motor that we have converted in previous project video. Have a look at this project video as we are goingto have lots of fun building this bicycle. More information about the material and designs visit the instructables article link:" Hope this helps - good luck with your project.
What you change alternator on the side like you said he's one of those have four wires coming out of it so what did you change alternator because of wires did you change alternators honest
Hi. I don't understand how it is brushless as it appeared that you put the brushes back in and connected a red and a black wire to them? Or did I miss something?
No you did not. It has brushes. You can actually use the motor without energizing the core/rotor. In the video in the link I do it. ua-cam.com/video/ZSPhQ6S199k/v-deo.html
First off, good work on your project. Just want to clarify that delta or wye configuration don't effect the speed of the motor and mostly are used for starting and running currents. Also you can't for sure tell the difference between how they are connected on the inside by just observing 3 wires, since both configurations will have 3 leads out. Best way would be to separate all the coils and do ohm check to determine the true configuration. Also since alternators don't have magnets inside them, you are feeding the rotor a small voltage to create the magnet, and doesn't mean you need 48 volts to run the motor. When voltage is high, you have higher magnetic effect and your driver doesn't have enough current to overcome the magnetic field generated. A drive with higher current output should do the job, most alternators will produce around 90A, so somewhere around that number would make the motor work too.
@@mannys8259 not necessarily true, in most common 3 phase application, you will have 6 leads coming out of the motor/ generator. also there are motors with 9 or 12 leads which makes it harder to just tell by simply visually looking for one or two wires.
Yeah theading for this video says converting an alternator into a brushless motor when in fact its not brushless because he installed the brushes back in the alternator. Just a little FYI for those of you that didn't catch that so it isn't infact a brushless motor as advertised.
A motor connected in a Delta configuration will draw more amps than if it were connected in a Y configuration due to the fact that the Y configuration places the windings in series - adding the coil resistance values.
Would it be possible using switching relays to switch between motor and alternator functions so it could be used to start an engine then charge the battery whilst running.
I appreciate your details of wiring the alternator. But, you failed to describe or explain how you were controlling it at the end. You somehow setup your remote control to operate it, but what are those details?
You incorrectly refer to the rotor as the stator. The rotor is the magnetic field created by the application of 12volts DC or less to the brushes. It rotates, so it is the rotor. The stator is a 3 phase array of windings which is supplied with the main motor current. It doesn't rotate so it is the stator. The high current to the stator is controlled by the ESC which puts out a 3 phase AC pulse width modulated current.
He's exactly right Spinning = Rotor Body Coils = Stator What you did is a motor that can be controlled either way you want, less power sent to the rotor you're going to have more revs but less tourqe and obviously more power sent to the rotor it'll slow your revs down but have more torque, you can play with stator and rotor individually so you get whatever you want, bare in mind that this alternator was designed for a 12 volt system so my advice is to not exceed 12 volts !! Good luck interesting video
building a bicyckle with my delta alternator,awesome?going to build one for my other bike with a y diagram version,and find me a couple speed controllers?
Call your local pick it yourself wrecking yards and ask how much alternators are, some are crazy cheap as they mainly want the melted scrap value and selling parts is pure gravy.
I don't have a brushless controller yet but I do have an electric chainsaw that I can no longer get batteries for so I took the control unit from it which is for a brushless motor and all mine does is twitch like yours did at first. Any suggestions
It is brushless because he removed the brushes. Then, put them back in. So, technically it was brushless for a few minutes, even though it would not work. The only part that came in a box when I started fixing vehicles, they where new from the dealer.
Yeah. I think its in the "drive it with an brushless motor controller, (with brushes and a stator instead of permanent magnets.)" But I'm sure he meant well :-)
wouldn't the armature be burning out? having it constantly connected to the battery and the motor not running, while your adjusting things. Do you know what the issues were in the beginning when it would only run then stop , for about 4s? Love you work and channel. I love how you explain every thing while you are working and diagnosing. Thanks Mate, Keep up the great work
I wanted to ask what is the name of the yellow with a remote control, what is the alterator, I would like to ask for the full name of how many apers alternator must be
Hi, thanks for your work on this. Really great. I was wanting to convert an alternator to a motor and run it off a 12V vehicle battery. Would a 48V ESC work? Or would you need a different setup
any esc voltage from 24V to 72V on the stator would work (if you use 4-12V on the rotor brushes), just need to cool the alternator or use pipes/something to guide air to the alternator depending on the voltage
@@boycefenn you can run a 3ph motor on single phase by using a capacitor to generate the third leg if wired in delta or if wired in star - to the center of the star + to one leg and capacitor between the other 2 may have to convert dc to ac
@@frankmarson2425 i see, yeah that could work. in my head i was only considering DC. though even your suggestion would likely not work all that well because i think a converted alternator is an asynchronous 3ph motor so it would be prone to stalling
Ok i have neodimium magnets, aproximately the size of a quarter. I have a used ford alternator. I have a 1/4 horse 3 speed 1 phase motor. Hopefully after i complete the alternator modification, i will not fry the 1/4 horse motor. Ill post the results. Fyi. The alternator is a 1972 ford 55amp , ill post the alternating current output upon completion. Btw, what is being removed are diode trios(2) and the rest of the wiring to make the alternator direct current. By installing the magnets n.s.n.s.n.s etc you are creating an alternating current generator. The ford alternator im using , previously had an externat voltage regulator. Peace yall. Ill letcha know
I have seen electric motors having around 2, 3 or 4 wires going to and from but never have I heard about nor seen ones with 6 wires coming out from an electric motor at once? What function serves the additional 5th and 6th wires to, are they made for supplying a 12v utility battery or feed the spark plugs on the engine it usually is connected with? If so then they are a perfect option for a diy regenerative braking system on each rear wheel side of any ev conversion car project as an additional bonus can improve the handling to a plus side.
Think of it this way: a length of wire, let's say a foot long has two ends. Let's say: One end on the left and one end on the right. A coil of wire on a stator winding also has two ends. To locate or identify a coil's two ends, an ohm meter can be used. The ends of the wires are made available on the alternator after disassembly. For 3 coils you would expect 6 ends. For 6 coils you would expect 12 ends. For 12 coils you would expect 24 ends. These ends are usually soldered to the rectifier before disassembly. Sometimes two lengths of wire are wound around the same stator frame section. Instead of winding 1 wire at at a time they wind 2 at a time. This arrangement would show 4 ends per section. If there were 3 sections with two wires this way, you would see 12 ends. (3 X4)
Can some one help, i have a 4 wire alternator 12 maybe GM? how can i wire it to get best performance as a motor? To drive 80mm jet prop for a Kayak. Thanks Ken
Since it's a 4 wire alternator. It has 4 copper wires coming from the coils. That means it's in a Y configuration and NOT Delta as you see in this video.
As an alternator, it will easily put out 100+volts if the regulator is disconnected and rpm high enough (I've seen 6v alternators on small motorcycles put out over 90AC volts, no load). I would think most automotive alternators can also put out around 45amps at low end and vehicles with high electrical loads 100 amps or more. (It's been a long time since 20 amp alternators were 'enough') Therefore, you can put 100+ v into it at lower amps or, high amps at less volts. The stator will need a controller switching each phase to get any decent torque.(or wire it as a low volt 3 phase motor?) In effect, you have a very crude stepper motor or a brushed 3 phase motor. The rotor will only need a small voltage to create a magnetic field, the outer winding's will control the torque.
correct .A.C drives in industry vary the speed of an induction motor by varying frequency, since poles are fixed ( except single phase consequent pole motors ). These are the two main factors which determine motor rpm.- % slippage.
Not a brushless motor.... You have to apply a voltage to the brushes and energize the coils in the rotor so that it acts as an electromagnet. Then when you run the power from the brushless motor controller to the 3 winding wires in the stator it will run. Regulate the voltage and current running to the rotor and you increase/decrease the strength of the field and vary motor power.
If I am understanding what I am seeing, you are running this on those 3 or 4 and no more than 6 little batteries and you did not connect to any other power source, right? If so I am really impressed with the torque when you kick that thing over! My question is rhetorical - no answer required unless someone wants to correct my understanding or lack thereof. Great and interesting video.
I don't understand how the phase wires work, makes no sense to me. if you have a + / output wire from the ESC going into both ends of a stator winding how does the power move through the windings, there's no ground.
I wonder if for an ebike can I move my rear hub to the front wheel and run some sort of belt drive rear wheel system to make a AWD system but run each off its own 36v controller and wire them to the same throttle the controllers out put 22amps they are brushless hub motors controllers so Idk exactly off hand but the 750 to 1000w max output. The battery on the bike now is a 36volt 29.25ah lithium ion.
Nikolas, it's been a year now and, perhaps, by now, you might have become aware of hub motors. Use a hub motor for the front wheel and you'll eliminate the necessity for motor mount and chain/belt drive on the front wheel which is rather awkward to get right.
Yep, I have diy dual hub motor emtb and it freaking rocks man. 48V batteries, two controllers, single throttle. Upgrading to 52V or maybe even 60/72V this season. I have an alternator sitting here as well...a pretty nice size one from a 2010 Grand Caravan. Maybe I will convert it and attach it to one of my nieces or nephews ride on toys ot something and use my old ebike controllers / 48v batteries and see what it can do. Like strap it to a push bike or something lol. I have a few keyed freewheel adapters and sprockets, couplers, etc. Basically I alrrady have everything I need but time lol
If I understood that right, the voltages on the rotor are trial and error, limited by the 12V on the stator.
Is there a way to calculate the perfect ratio for the two voltages? What specs might we need to do that?
Is the ratio linear or does it change by the amount of voltage put on the rotor?
lol pi llllll
P
@@mohdjanimohdtaib2356 bot
@@mpirron1 P? Is this your answer to one of my questions or to all of them ?
1 : 6 comparison
2 volt rotor, 12 volt stator,
I know it since i read comment from other youtube channel.
finally someone that explanes it in detail. not just a video of them cutting wires removing stuff and never saying a word. thanks i am going to try this today.
Did it work? Was it successful?
@@Superman2121-e2m i never got around to it. its been so long i dont even remember i never got around to it.
You’re the best presenter because you talk as you demonstrate. Others are doing like magicians. Its up to the viewer to interpret if he is good enough to pick up.
This is an excellent video despite some of the terminology being wrong (as various commenters have pointed out ad nausea). I like the fact that you showed exactly what you were doing and the result. I have some theoretical background in how everything works so I don't care about all that. I just wanted to see how you take it apart to get an idea of how complicated the process is. Keep up the good work!
UA-cam is a 5 star app to me, and very helpful in showing DIY video’s
Actually, the voltage on the rotor will only influence the maximum torque the "motor" will exhibit. The reason speed is lower when using two cells to power the rotor is that the rotor draws too much current, hence a drop of voltage for the electronic driver which feeds the 3ph stator. This is why there is an electronic regulator to control the rotor current. The way to set the current on the stator is you must feed as much current as necessary so that no slippage arise. Some 3ph drivers have a power input separate from the supply input such that you can put the power input in series with the rotor winding. This way the rotor is then feed with a current dependent on the power required by the driver. Otherwise you need to drive the rotor current determined by another electronic circuit. Or use a resistor to limit the current, but this method will loose battery power into heat from the resistor. Be careful not to feed too much current into the rotor for it can easily burn. Great video. Thanks for sharing.
I had a feeling it was like the SepEx field golf kart motors, they have another field to power too & It acts the same way. Tnx 4 sharing 😊
I keep coming back to your video because you get to the point without telling me how good you are. Really appreciate the simple list of components required
The two brushes connect to the the slip rings on the rotor. What you call the "Middle part ". It rotates, and is a rotor. The stater is stationary and outside the rotor mounted in the housing.
Good video, nitpicking comments notwithstanding. When retrofitting an alternator to a completely different application, what might be some drawbacks to replacing the cast iron housing to aluminum. Benefits I have in mind are weight and cooling.
Edit .. new sub, hope you make more vid. Thanks.
I had been thingking about using ESC for controlling motor 12v alternator, finally I found on this video, this is the answer, ok thanks for your share
Cheapest way to power up a DIY small multihull fishing 🎣 platform. Recycling Alternators to motors.........
thank you for sharing your videos. I can use this information to power my home built boat 🚣♀️.
Peace
Those funny little screws are Torx screws. You need a Torx toolkit.. 👍👍🙂
Good Video Young Man & by now i think you know the Diff between Rotor & Stator Great work!!
Yes I learned it, I appreciate it
At 5:15 ,The copper slip rings are not for the stator. They provide a current path for the field, which is wound on the rotor. The part that spins. The field requires only a small current to excite the main output coils that are wound on the stator ; the stationary coils, which produce 3-phase alternating current. The diode- triple converts the A/C into ripple DC, which charges the battery. Vehicle alternators do not make efficient motors. Not designed for that purpose. The pulley shaft on most of them are not even keyed for the purpose of driving the pulley, but rely solely on the shaft nut to squeeze the pulley to the shaft. Even under load, the rotor does not require a large amount of torque to rotate. Real motors require a key way or spline shaft to drive a load, as well as a ruggedly built rotor.
The center part that spins is called a "rotor", because it rotates.... sometimes it is called an armature.
A stator is from the latin root word "static" meaning it does not move... it is the laminated iron part with copper windings around the outside of the device. In this instance the stator is obscured by the casing.
Also, you put the brushes back in, so not really brushless eh?
WRONG! Lol. I'm just kidding. You're dead on.
"Semi-brushless"... 🤷🏻
Still works exactly the same as a brushless motor, it just has an electromagnet instead of a permanent magnet.
3 phase induction motor
@@VulcaNtGoF A 3-phase induction motor works completely differently
I think it's technically it's a bldc with electromagnetic rotor. And if you have a way of replacing the rotor with permanent magnets.. is love to hear about that... Maybe you have a better way of adding power to the rotor to give it a electromagnetic charge? The stator needs a field to push upon our is but going to spin..
Thanks a lot for this video. I knew the theory of converting alternator into a BLDC motor but I was not sure about overheating by lower RPMs (which means lower frequency.) One of my customers asked me how to do that so I sent him Your video. You did really good job.
It's not brushless since he put the brushes back in.
But brushes don’t interrupt the current into rotating coils as in normal brushed motor. There is only one pole and rotor coils work like a permanent magnet.
@@KUBA64official take the brushes out. Would it work?
@@wifie9321 The brushes only provide current to the rotor to operate the electromagnet, since it doesn't have permament magnets. Only a small current passes through the brushes, and the main motor current does not. The rest of it operates the exact same way as a brushless DC motor.
@@davelowets but it has brushes to provide power. Without them it cannot work unless you replace parts. Until the magnet is replaced to eliminate this problem, it is a brushed DC motor.
Great video awesome information and great walk through, grab a few more tools and a few more connections lol
Good job in describing/teaching. I've been trying to learn how to do this and I understand so much better now.
INTP boys and girls. The 10 yr old taking stuff apart to see how it works. Tomorrow s engineers and technicians scientists
I am watching a different video. The video I am watching is a guy making a video on something he has never done and knows nothing about.
You need to re-title this. "How to use a car alternator as a motor with electronic speed control" maybe? To make it brushless you'd need to replace the wound rotor with a permanent magnet one.
I was exited until i saw the brushes go back in
@@dave95377 me too, can I ask for a refund of my 15min?
Yes, indeed! Also you refer to " Delta and Star connected resistors"; They are the stator WINDINGS.
oh good its nor me alone wondering how brushless needs brushes ..none i own have any brushes
@@dave95377 so your missing the point of the brushes, they are pretending to be the permanent magnets.. if the winding is a reverse stator, you need the center piece to act like the permanent magnet, so you add a DC voltage to the center piece and it here a magnetic field so the electro magnetic field from the three ac wires have a magnetic field to push against.. you could always the center shaft out and replace it with permanent magnets... But don't have a clue how to accomplish that feat of manufacturing in as short a time as adding DC power to it instead.. it's actually kind of genius, cuz making that center piece into day a 4 pole permanent magnet in my garage would be impossible, especially if I wanted to spin that up to 2000 rpms. The DC brushes are a excellent substitute.
No need open the coils, nice explained, Thank you
Can you show the circuit diagram including the stator connected to the ESC and what ESC did you use. I presume the ESC provides a 3 phase supply to the stator and supply DC to the rotor via brushes and slip ring to the batteries
Changing the field voltage (the dc voltage) is like changing the motor Kv. Higher voltage means lower Kv and lower voltage means higher Kv. Permanent magnet motors can't change Kv on the fly but this type of motor (with a wound rotor and controllable field) can.
Very bold and with rudimentary tools. Scrap yards cur the wire coming out of the alternator because unscrewing the nut usually break the insulator. I recommend grinding the nut. (Penetrating fluid may work but you usually end up breaking the insulator. Then game over! )
At 10:05 Your putting back together the brushes. The first brush bolts down to ground or the body of the alternator. The 2nd one I believe you've installed correctly with insulators on both sides of the mounting hole. Ultimately you'll need to solder on wires to both brushes so you can apply dc currenT TO THE ARMATURE. eITHER THAT OR BUY A CUSTOM MAGNETIC ARMATURE AND HAVE AN ACTUAL PERMENANT MAGNET BLDC.
WHAT AN EXCELLENT VIDEO! MAKING A BRUSHLESS ELECTRIC MOTOR CAN HAVE MANY APPLICATIONS. I BELIEVE POWER AVAILABLE IS ONLY BASED ON SIZE SPEED CONTROLLER YOU CHOOSE, AND THE AMOUNT OF BATTERY VOLTAGE YOU APPLY.
Until you exceed a voltage the insulation on the windings can withstand, arc through the insulation & create a short circuit...
or overheat the windings, melting the insulation and creating a short circuit.
Given that the armature shaft is steel, it's gonna produce a whole bunch of eddy currents.
Eddy currents produce a great deal of heat.
Think of a large air core inductor with a piece of steel passed inside while it's energized.
While I don't doubt that an automotive alternator can be over amped/over voltage, there are limitations to doing so... for our own safety.
The wire gauge of the windings would be a quick way to get an approximate safe maximum input/output.
The more voltage used, the greater chance of arcing.
The more amperage used, the greater chance of overheating.
@@kaisersose5549 … or overspeed the bearings, or overload them or the windings with too much load. Typically, a motor will stall first in the latter condition, but an alternator may be more lightly built than a typical motor. The original wattage rating of the alternator should be a good indication of the motor's limits.
I wish you would explain more are you connecting body of alternator with hot wire from battery??
Friend your effort on this motor is very good 👌 friend
Nice video, good explanation and it's indeed a motor...just not a brushless one...it has brushes on the rotor...
and it could actually be converted to brushless...just put some magnets on the rotor
Also rotor is the part that turns not the other way around
The coil in the middle is called the rotor. Those brushes are at if not very close to end of life. You should have to load them with spring pressure to make sure there is contact. You could have intermittent contact if they are super worn and judging from the strong moon curve in them, they are pretty worn. The STATER is the larger windings that run along the outer part of the workings. The plus terminal on the brushes is called the field. Typically controlled by the voltage regulator, (That piece you broke off) working in a way that a small applied voltage renders a multiplied voltage on the output, provided the rotor is turning.
I'm questioning if the voltage to the rotor was backwards but it was hard to see how you had them wired to the battery pack.
FYI, you don't even have to run a power rotor, you can replace the coils with magnets, like a motor.
I used to work on an assembly line for a reman shop. I found this video pretty educational however.
Woah, this comment in itself was like an informative video! :D
Tnx for sharing! 😊
The vehicle alternator is a very special design of generator in that the field and armature (rotor) are REVERSED so the rotor/armature is now the field and the fixed outer coil now functions as the armature. This unique rotor is known the alternator-claw design, aka bear-claw and supplies much higher current to the battery and at a lower RPM.
Is it gonna work with 60-72V and 50+ amps on an electric go kart, or is it only for 12-24V and lower amps?
Thank you 🙏 a lot of useful information.
nice one. Thanks for sharing your knowledge
Awesome really love this subject
Could this alternator now be used as a generator and a motor as in regenerative braking?
What about a big truck altanator. Semi truck . I'd love to see if I could get one of the to run on a vfd.
It a standard alternator from an older small car. Scrapyards sell them for $10 to $20, in better condition than this one.
Some are 24 volt systems.. Watch out
on this alternator what power of battery will be needed to power a go cart or golf buggy for 50km range. thanks .
What type of batteries can it use? Wondering because i got a nimh laying around and im planning on building a electric go kart
Do u need the ese or can u Olson only run on a batery
Hi guys. Would reverse go via the controller? I found a fairly big unit from a Cat engine. It has ac connections on the outside already. Do I still tear it apart?
I’m a complete novice. Is there anyway I can post a picture of it?
If you can send me your email we can talk about it
And yes, reverse is made by the 3 phase controller
Is the 3 wires is for the stator?
So basically just doing the necessary steps to switch output to input?
can't get my head around one thing, how do limit ur speed range, i'm working on the same project more or less, but i'm using an arduino board and a potentiometer, and I still get a really high output frequency of the ESC(1KHZ). I only need 60HZ
If you take a brush wire and wire to winding and wire the other 2 windings together the one winding is negative and one brush wire positive and only need on 12 volt feed for both
The middle part is the ROTOR because it ROTATES. The clue is in the name. 😉
Good job. I redid the generator and installed it on an electric car. The video is on my channel.
nothing in english ?
Could a 12v car battery power a 1000w speed controller i have no idea about this kind of stuff
What would you charge me to build one for me and how do you get it to produce power for a plug 8n
does increasing the voltage to the coil increase torque while lowering speed?
Bro I have an alternator with 4 wires which is in star connection. Can you please help me with the viring?
Hi,
At 3.30am you told to explain the different alternators in a next video. I have disassembled a stator from a 24V 120A alternator to measure each coil. in total there are now 12 separate wires coming out of the stator. How can I reassemble it into a star configuration? I'd be happy to send a photo if possible.
Thanks in advance!
Bring out all 6 wires, and you can switch between delta and wye on the fly, and basically have a 2 speed motor.
Speed will match the AC output of the ESC. Speed is limited by back EMF from the stator. It cannot exceed power supply voltage. Delta tends to have lower voltage than Wye but greater torque. Lowering brush voltage will weaken the field and allow greater RPM but with less torque.
There’s a little detail that caught my attention. The 2 wires connected to the brushes… aren’t the windings around that metal screw changes something in the current provided to the coil? I dont know if only few turns like this would be enough to change anything..? If somebody here can answer that question please let me know!
How much tork does it make... could you use someting like this for a boat?
Ok I did what you said. But my alternator locks up when powered then spins free after power off?
Any thoughts would be great
Probably a Wye connected alternator hooked up to a Delta controller.
Good stuff. I have an old, but good condition alternator from an old Mitsubishi V3000. I want to maybe make my old bicycle into a E-Bike by using this method.
Let me know how it works
I would like to know if it works as well and if at 36volts does it produce enough torque to pull a person because my bike is currently 65pounds with a single hub motor on it I want to make a awd with the rear driven by alternator motor on either chain or possibly belt driven like the surons segways ect
A guy has already done that FYI - but there may be others - but it's not possible to view every YT channels and contents thereof - and you probably just missed it but I'm interested in Alternator conversions for the reasons I've covered in my comment above to the host of this Channel - so I've simply selected this one [the only one I viewed ] for you - to show the possible pitfalls and/or success of the project - which seems quite do-able nevertheless.
A link to that vid - From my You Tube viewing history:
Bicycle Conversion using a 10,000 Watt Car Alternator
1,085,836 views
Oct 15, 2021
"In this DIY project video we are going to convert our bicycle into an electric one. We are going to use a car alternnator that we have converted to a permanent magnnet brushless motor that we have converted in previous project video.
Have a look at this project video as we are goingto have lots of fun building this bicycle.
More information about the material and designs visit the instructables article link:"
Hope this helps - good luck with your project.
What you change alternator on the side like you said he's one of those have four wires coming out of it so what did you change alternator because of wires did you change alternators honest
What can you do with the 3 wires if you don't have a speed controller? Maybe just make it run full power?
great video!
how to connect it if alternator have a 4 wires???
thanks
Hi. I don't understand how it is brushless as it appeared that you put the brushes back in and connected a red and a black wire to them? Or did I miss something?
No you did not. It has brushes. You can actually use the motor without energizing the core/rotor. In the video in the link I do it.
ua-cam.com/video/ZSPhQ6S199k/v-deo.html
@@MadeEasyChannel But the title of the video is "Convert Alternator to Brushless Motor". The title seems a bit misleading
First off, good work on your project. Just want to clarify that delta or wye configuration don't effect the speed of the motor and mostly are used for starting and running currents. Also you can't for sure tell the difference between how they are connected on the inside by just observing 3 wires, since both configurations will have 3 leads out. Best way would be to separate all the coils and do ohm check to determine the true configuration. Also since alternators don't have magnets inside them, you are feeding the rotor a small voltage to create the magnet, and doesn't mean you need 48 volts to run the motor. When voltage is high, you have higher magnetic effect and your driver doesn't have enough current to overcome the magnetic field generated. A drive with higher current output should do the job, most alternators will produce around 90A, so somewhere around that number would make the motor work too.
He ran it on 12.6 volts. Not 48. Wise up.
@@davelowets watch the whole video
you can tell the difference between wye and delta without taking it apart. delta will have 2 or 4 wire ends at each 3 points. Wye will only have 1.
@@mannys8259 not necessarily true, in most common 3 phase application, you will have 6 leads coming out of the motor/ generator. also there are motors with 9 or 12 leads which makes it harder to just tell by simply visually looking for one or two wires.
Good Job , this helps as to understanding the Concept !
Yeah theading for this video says converting an alternator into a brushless motor when in fact its not brushless because he installed the brushes back in the alternator. Just a little FYI for those of you that didn't catch that so it isn't infact a brushless motor as advertised.
Rc brushless motors spin faster in delta configuration that's why they use more amps than y configuration
A motor connected in a Delta configuration will draw more amps than if it were connected in a Y configuration due to the fact that the Y configuration places the windings in series - adding the coil resistance values.
does it need to be a working alternator or will a broken one work?
Would it be possible using switching relays to switch between motor and alternator functions so it could be used to start an engine then charge the battery whilst running.
you can't
I appreciate your details of wiring the alternator. But, you failed to describe or explain how you were controlling it at the end. You somehow setup your remote control to operate it, but what are those details?
do you have a situation map? where can i buy this stuff? what is the specifications?
You do not have to take anything else out of the alternasir. What is that mechanism that you that is blue and yellow and the you hook the wires too
You incorrectly refer to the rotor as the stator. The rotor is the magnetic field created by the application of 12volts DC or less to the brushes. It rotates, so it is the rotor. The stator is a 3 phase array of windings which is supplied with the main motor current. It doesn't rotate so it is the stator. The high current to the stator is controlled by the ESC which puts out a 3 phase AC pulse width modulated current.
Thank you for explaining this to me.
He's exactly right
Spinning = Rotor
Body Coils = Stator
What you did is a motor that can be controlled either way you want, less power sent to the rotor you're going to have more revs but less tourqe and obviously more power sent to the rotor it'll slow your revs down but have more torque, you can play with stator and rotor individually so you get whatever you want, bare in mind that this alternator was designed for a 12 volt system so my advice is to not exceed 12 volts !!
Good luck interesting video
correct on the id of the parts. Stator...stationary...Rotor rotates
building a bicyckle with my delta alternator,awesome?going to build one for my other bike with a y diagram version,and find me a couple speed controllers?
Call your local pick it yourself wrecking yards and ask how much alternators are, some are crazy cheap as they mainly want the melted scrap value and selling parts is pure gravy.
I don't have a brushless controller yet but I do have an electric chainsaw that I can no longer get batteries for so I took the control unit from it which is for a brushless motor and all mine does is twitch like yours did at first. Any suggestions
Just wondering why the title says “brushless”
)
he doesnt know, this is clearly his first time lol
It is brushless because he removed the brushes. Then, put them back in. So, technically it was brushless for a few minutes, even though it would not work.
The only part that came in a box when I started fixing vehicles, they where new from the dealer.
Yeah. I think its in the "drive it with an brushless motor controller, (with brushes and a stator instead of permanent magnets.)" But I'm sure he meant well :-)
@@kingkoopa8996 well he knows enough to give a -for the most part- accurate tutorial on how to do the conversion from alternator to motor.
The local scrapyard should sell you a good alternator for less than you paid for that one.
So is this really useful? Seems it doesnt have anybreal HP to do anything?
wouldn't the armature be burning out? having it constantly connected to the battery and the motor not running, while your adjusting things. Do you know what the issues were in the beginning when it would only run then stop , for about 4s? Love you work and channel. I love how you explain every thing while you are working and diagnosing. Thanks Mate, Keep up the great work
What about the 6 prong alternators?
Thanks for sharing . Great help
I wanted to ask what is the name of the yellow with a remote control, what is the alterator, I would like to ask for the full name of how many apers alternator must be
I wonder how efficient is it as a motor? How much torque?
Hi, thanks for your work on this. Really great. I was wanting to convert an alternator to a motor and run it off a 12V vehicle battery. Would a 48V ESC work? Or would you need a different setup
36v or 48v would work!
any esc voltage from 24V to 72V on the stator would work (if you use 4-12V on the rotor brushes), just need to cool the alternator or use pipes/something to guide air to the alternator depending on the voltage
Hi!
How can I choose the battery for my alternator? Which are the characteristics I should look at?
Great video man!
You choose it based on the voltage of the speed controller. If your speed controller is 36v then that's the battery that you need
Is there a way to do this without the rc controller and the yellow thing like a hi lo wireing or just on when you connect to power? Great vid👍
unfortunately this is a three phase motor which means that there is no good way to power it without a controller
@@boycefenn could run a capacitor or two
@@frankmarson2425 not sure I quite understand what you're suggesting
@@boycefenn you can run a 3ph motor on single phase by using a capacitor to generate the third leg if wired in delta or if wired in star - to the center of the star + to one leg and capacitor between the other 2 may have to convert dc to ac
@@frankmarson2425 i see, yeah that could work. in my head i was only considering DC. though even your suggestion would likely not work all that well because i think a converted alternator is an asynchronous 3ph motor so it would be prone to stalling
Ok i have neodimium magnets, aproximately the size of a quarter. I have a used ford alternator. I have a 1/4 horse 3 speed 1 phase motor. Hopefully after i complete the alternator modification, i will not fry the 1/4 horse motor. Ill post the results. Fyi. The alternator is a 1972 ford 55amp , ill post the alternating current output upon completion. Btw, what is being removed are diode trios(2) and the rest of the wiring to make the alternator direct current. By installing the magnets n.s.n.s.n.s etc you are creating an alternating current generator. The ford alternator im using , previously had an externat voltage regulator. Peace yall. Ill letcha know
I have seen electric motors having around 2, 3 or 4 wires going to and from but never have I heard about nor seen ones with 6 wires coming out from an electric motor at once? What function serves the additional 5th and 6th wires to, are they made for supplying a 12v utility battery or feed the spark plugs on the engine it usually is connected with?
If so then they are a perfect option for a diy regenerative braking system on each rear wheel side of any ev conversion car project as an additional bonus can improve the handling to a plus side.
the brush wires are for field current
(separatedly excited, some old huge DC motors from the past also were like that)
A 3-phase motor will have 6 wires. 2 wires for each of the 3 coils.
Think of it this way: a length of wire, let's say a foot long has two ends. Let's say: One end on the left and one end on the right. A coil of wire on a stator winding also has two ends. To locate or identify a coil's two ends, an ohm meter can be used. The ends of the wires are made available on the alternator after disassembly. For 3 coils you would expect 6 ends. For 6 coils you would expect 12 ends. For 12 coils you would expect 24 ends. These ends are usually soldered to the rectifier before disassembly. Sometimes two lengths of wire are wound around the same stator frame section. Instead of winding 1 wire at at a time they wind 2 at a time.
This arrangement would show 4 ends per section. If there were 3 sections with two wires this way, you would see 12 ends. (3 X4)
Can some one help, i have a 4 wire alternator 12 maybe GM? how can i wire it to get best performance as a motor? To drive 80mm jet prop for a Kayak.
Thanks
Ken
Since it's a 4 wire alternator. It has 4 copper wires coming from the coils. That means it's in a Y configuration and NOT Delta as you see in this video.
You need to take an ohm reading on each pair of wires and locate the common
Q
@@MadeEasyChannel why my motor its braked when i put the power to the rotor ?
@@MadeEasyChannel its dnt move when i release the power from the rotor i can turned by hand !!
how to get speed controller kit kindly upload any link or vedio
The link should be in the description
Yes i wonder what a semi alternator would be as well and if you can put a speed controller on it.
Most of those are 24V, probably higher current too.
As an alternator, it will easily put out 100+volts if the regulator is disconnected and rpm high enough (I've seen 6v alternators on small motorcycles put out over 90AC volts, no load).
I would think most automotive alternators can also put out around 45amps at low end and vehicles with high electrical loads 100 amps or more. (It's been a long time since 20 amp alternators were 'enough')
Therefore, you can put 100+ v into it at lower amps or, high amps at less volts. The stator will need a controller switching each phase to get any decent torque.(or wire it as a low volt 3 phase motor?)
In effect, you have a very crude stepper motor or a brushed 3 phase motor. The rotor will only need a small voltage to create a magnetic field, the outer winding's will control the torque.
100 AMP @ 12 fucking VOLTS , 10 AMP @ 120 FUCKING VOLTS ass holes
@@lesstime1678 ..........and your point is?
I equals V over R or any combination.
Guess you just learned that from Google?
The Y vs D configuration has nothing to do with rpm. It is the number of poles that decides the rpm.
In case of synchronous motors y and d configuration changes the rpm
correct .A.C drives in industry vary the speed of an induction motor by varying frequency, since poles are fixed ( except single phase consequent pole motors ). These are the two main factors which determine motor rpm.- % slippage.
Not a brushless motor.... You have to apply a voltage to the brushes and energize the coils in the rotor so that it acts as an electromagnet. Then when you run the power from the brushless motor controller to the 3 winding wires in the stator it will run. Regulate the voltage and current running to the rotor and you increase/decrease the strength of the field and vary motor power.
If I am understanding what I am seeing, you are running this on those 3 or 4 and no more than 6 little batteries and you did not connect to any other power source, right? If so I am really impressed with the torque when you kick that thing over! My question is rhetorical - no answer required unless someone wants to correct my understanding or lack thereof. Great and interesting video.
What if this convertion were done with a self exciting alternator
Bro thanks 4 your vid, could you pls say me if this alternator worked well? and about how much time it worked using what voltage ?
Nice work
Good video nicely done. Thank you.
I don't understand how the phase wires work, makes no sense to me. if you have a + / output wire from the ESC going into both ends of a stator winding how does the power move through the windings, there's no ground.
What does it mean if you have 4 prongs
I wonder if for an ebike can I move my rear hub to the front wheel and run some sort of belt drive rear wheel system to make a AWD system but run each off its own 36v controller and wire them to the same throttle the controllers out put 22amps they are brushless hub motors controllers so Idk exactly off hand but the 750 to 1000w max output. The battery on the bike now is a 36volt 29.25ah lithium ion.
Nikolas, it's been a year now and, perhaps, by now, you might have become aware of hub motors. Use a hub motor for the front wheel and you'll eliminate the necessity for motor mount and chain/belt drive on the front wheel which is rather awkward to get right.
Yep, I have diy dual hub motor emtb and it freaking rocks man. 48V batteries, two controllers, single throttle. Upgrading to 52V or maybe even 60/72V this season. I have an alternator sitting here as well...a pretty nice size one from a 2010 Grand Caravan. Maybe I will convert it and attach it to one of my nieces or nephews ride on toys ot something and use my old ebike controllers / 48v batteries and see what it can do. Like strap it to a push bike or something lol. I have a few keyed freewheel adapters and sprockets, couplers, etc. Basically I alrrady have everything I need but time lol
why one would want to turn one into a motor I don't know but it was an interesting video