Honestly, I feel it was a very clever joke and a fun double twist. Though the abrupt ending joke was a little too predictable for my taste. But over all I say this video was above par and I really liked the "No I am ending this" combo with "it was a dream". Very on point.
Hey JP, I got a question. Which is worse; When a writer starts with an ending and tries to build a story around their ideal conclusion? Or A writer who starts a story and keeps it going so long they don't know how to tie up every loose end?
If the protagonist is single, the story has to end with him hooking up with the lead female. It's the only possible way for there to be a happy ending. Saving the world is meaningless if you don't get the girl.
The BEST ending possible: It turns out that the evil Dark Lord, the ones the heros of the story just stopped and planned on both destroying and conquering the world at the same time, was actually a minion of an even darker and lordier Dark Lord! It leaves room for a greater sequel on an even larger scale! Aka more $$$
Or even better, kill the dark lord in the first installment, then bring him back last minute during every sequel, because surprise, the new big bad was secretly working for him! Then rinse and repeat, and introduce a new big bad that still works for the original dark lord
“Could I have foreshadowed this by making the main villain’s plan have holes in it that subtly suggest the presence of a more important player? Should I construct this character as an explicitly uncreative type that probably couldn’t plan their way out of a paper bag (kinda like me!)?
Actually the dark lord was a puppet to the mega dark lord, who was the protagonists friend, who was also his love interest, who was also the king of every country, who was also planning to kill Lord Killington, who was also him
F**king thank you, I’m honestly pretty disillusioned to just how cynical the comments to the average TWA video is. Translation: I HATE THIS THING AND IM PRETTY SURE JP HATES IT TOO!
Exactly, he's not the type to do something so contentious. Plus that wasnt the point of this video to start with, if you want to hear his take on criticism the watch his video on it; and yes it is sarcastic plus it doesn't "throw shade" on storytellers like everyone just assumed 🤦♂️
"Themes are for eighth grade book reports" "Themes are for eighth grade book reports" "Themes are for eighth grade book reports" "Themes are for eighth grade book reports" "Themes are for eighth grade book reports"
The ending to my story is quite literally “the good guys win and the bad guys lose.” Obviously there’s more to it than that. But the loose ends have been tied up beforehand, all that was left was the final battle and the culmination of the MC’s character development. Nothing more, nothing less. And also fuck anybody who tells you happy endings are cliche or cheating or boring. Mate I have the fluffiest most saccharine ending you don’t even know. My chars have been through hell and back, all other obstacles have been cleared, all that was needed was the big bad dying. Now they can go and live normal happy lives with their families and loved ones knowing they earned that shit. Your audience will appreciate a happy ending if your characters deserve it.
I don't know, I like bad endings. Perhaps a little to much:originally, I was gonna end my story with both mc dying just for the sake of it. Then I relalized it was kind of contradicting the hopeful tone in the rest of the book lol.
@@legrandliseurtri7495 Such an ending NEEDS to make sense. Best example of your preferred type I know about is Michael Moorcock's first Eternal Champion novel. It starts as your Chosen One narrative and then twists everything into tragedy.
''Your audience will appreciate a happy ending if your characters deserve it.'' Nailed it. And that's what makes the difference between good and bad ''happy endings'' for me. If the story was just the MC winning over and over again with no struggle and then gets his happy ending, then it's boring as heck (though to be fair, the same can be said of the story as a whole at that point). If they fought and lost and struggled back up and so on, you bet I want to see them succeed. I do like the middle-ground of bittersweets ending myself if the setting of the story simply doesn't allow for a happy ending for everyone (basically any story following multiple characters in different factions that are neither good nor evil), but that doesn't mean I don't want them to try and reach their happy ending after all they have to go through.
Agreed! If the characters have been through everything under the sun and then end in tragedy it usually feels cheap to me(there are exceptions to this rule tho). Don't underestimate a happy ending!
Shoter Aredein it also implies that a story could end sadly even though it gets better. It depends upon the narrative and how you end it, so neither are really the correct way to interpretation them
@Tiamat Michelle Hart Or a sad-ish ending when the characters eventually die of old age/sickness/murder/etc. or destroyed emotionally and mentally after becoming immortal and living too long. Life ends eventually after all.... so the story of one's life end eventually. Unless the story drags on about how they influenced the world after they died and stuff of course
Reminds me of that running gag in Rango where they keep foreshadowing his eventual death and then... ...he dies at a super old age, long after the main adventure, from falling down the stairs or something.
Do writers really struggle with their endings? I'm more a "I know where everyone's coming from and I know how it ends, but how do I fill the in-between?" kind of guy.
Oh, absolutely. Remember how J P brought up the pantsers who never plan anything? Or think of every person who has been writing a manga for years and years. It definitely happens.
My problem is the opposite: I have binders full of story details, the ending and the character arcs all figured out already... But where do I BEGIN the story???
@@Newfiecat Pick a time or location thematically related to your ending (the trope is literally called book ends). Like for example if your book ends in a prison break and is about figuring out how to escape start with some fitting incident at the main gate, the thing seperating the characters from freedom.
It depends. I've personally written about 4 different stories, however the longest running story I have currently, I'm still struggling with the ending. Don't want a hopeful, uplifting one but the ones I've come up with have often left those who know about it feel worse... I want something that leaves someone feeling "Complete" after reading it but coming up with a solid complete ending to a story that has spanned and evolved over a decade is.... difficult...
I heard this advice once and I have used it in my writing ever since. "Decide your starting point, then decide your endpoint. Your middle is where the fun stuff happens."
That's me all the way. The story I've been writing, called Let Me Help: An Alien Femdom Love Story, had a clear beginning and I know where it's going to end. The hard part is getting to the ending while making sure the middle part makes sense, plus throwing in some plot twists for good measure. What I have so far is on DeviantArt if you want to give it a read.
"What the hell, this clearly contradicts everything you ever..." "If you were a real fan, you would be aware of an interview the author did five years ago in alaska where he clearly stated this was the case. Also, in the seventh edition of the comic spin-off series, we see several events foreshadowing this exact twist, so don't even try."
Endings are the easiest thing in the world I don't get why anyone would struggle with them. This happened because this happened. Its like knocking over dominos. I didn't do may taxes because I wanted to watch tv and they were hard. I didn't hier an accounant because I am broke because of that I am rotting in jail the end.
And thus Martin is as responsible for the final season of GOT's failure as D&D. Not only did he not know how to end the story, he kept getting distracted by every single side character he created, which added to the mess.
It was never mentioned aliens. Aliens saved everyone, no explaination needed. On a serious note , in a dark medium that can be meta, might be a good ending, its a good ending for review the series with andy daily, becaue its about his down spiral and it ends meta dark. Good series.
@@williamdrum9899 ...FACEPLANTING a story before finish is such an Extreme Symptom of our IP-filled Capitalist-Hell. I cnat believe it happened so hard it retroactively hurt everything that came before for Bleach, HIMYM, 7DS, definetly for Cube-World and arguably for Minecraft.
About 70 years ago, a similar thing happened with the world's first miniseries, Patrick Mcgoohan's The Prisoner. In terms of genre weirdness, only Twin Peaks and Legion have ever matched that one. Mcgoohan didn't know how to end his story until he actually sat down to write it. And when the finale aired, people got so pissed that he spent a couple of weeks in the mountains. But...he was DELIGHTED by the response. He never attacked anyone over it, just calmly explained how he got there. D&D could have learned from that.
The "best" cliffhanger ending has to be that 1980s episode of "Doctor Who" where the Doctor randomly starts clambering down a cliff face, and is left hanging as the credits roll. If I remember correctly, the following episode he simply clamberd back up to the top of the cliff, and then got on with the story!
I think the key is to write an entire story forshadowing that the butler did it and at the last minute reveal that it was a completely different character the entire time. That subversion of expectations will surely satisfy the reader. (I'm looking at you Game of Thrones)
I just want to take a moment to point out that most modern kids movies end with a dance party and once you notice that it will drive you mad because it _always happens_
It was actually nice to hear JP say: "Nope. No clever sarcasm this time. You have to actually hear this straight and honest." And give genuine advice instead of his normal advice.
I love this series. But actually betraying my expectations and giving us actual advice with the scathing sarcasm intact was both enjoyable and entertaini... D’OH NO IM DEAD! The story switched tone and genres and you should feel bad! Cuz it was GRIMDARK all along! To Be Continued?
HA! All according to plan. The sequel hath been hooked.. my unwoven greatly exaggerated death has put me back in the shadows. 😈 Now I inch ever closer to not only this video’s sponsor Skillshare but Audible.com as well. Then set everything on fire! Because GRIMDARK? I totally didn’t not plan to make a sequel veering the story into a maelstrom of referendum trying to meet Pheonix commenter’s expectations!
The best ending is when a surprise villain turns up half way in the last third with no foreshadowing or previous mentions whatsoever to deliver a last minute climax. No one could possibly expect it and therefore is the best kind of twist, because a twist shouldn’t be a journey for the reader to figure out alongside the characters, it should just be so unpredictable that no one could possibly imagine it
NAME YOUR TWIST VILLAIN Wreck It Ralph: King Candy. Incredibles 2: Evelyn Deavor. heh...heh... Zootopia: Dawn Bellwether. heh...heh.... Frozen: Hans Wester- NO I find a problem with 3 of 4 villains
I've always thought that revealing a twist at the end of a story is the worst time, because it gives the book absolutely zero time to deal with the consequences of what the twist means for the world and its characters. If the twist is revealed in the middle, it allows the twist to be interacted with and lead to a satisfying conclusion, rather than just dropping the audience into a "How Does That Change What I Just Read" mentality
It can work if it has some finale for the characters and really good forshadowing that recontextualizes the story, making it rereadable. And is meant to end open. Otherwise, agree.especially in series finals that are might not renewed.
basically, it forces the reader to recontextualize everything they just read by themselves and encourages them to nitpick/reread into earlier chapters rather than growing and developing with this revelation alongside the characters
I think it depends on the twist. If the twist concerns some important part of the story, but not the main plot or premise, it is often more interesting to have the characters deal with it. A twist that reveals that the central premise or the main plot where actually something else can often fits better at the very end. The reason being not that it would not be interesting, but rather that a central twist would often realistically throw most of the characters into a crisis and have them reevaluate their motivations and goals, or even disrupt all character connections. That can of course be very interesting, however it has the potential to change the tone of the story aswell as all character relations to the point where it's basically a new story with new characters in a new genre.
Where would you say these twists should go (side note: how many twists is too many for one story?)? 1) Main character's give-advice-from-HQ teammates are in his/her head, not in some secret physical location (known to this character/group, but not to the reader or other characters). 2) A side character's "twin who's never in the same place at the same time" is really a multiple personality, and inspires the main character to be open about his/her teammates' existence. 3) What looks like serial murders are actually serial funerals set up by an unlicensed doctor who keeps accidentally killing his patients.
The best sign is when fan theories spread that whatever ending you wrote was really all just a dream, even though you never planned that, because the fans find that a less disappointing possibility . Oh, hi, Mass Effect 3.
Most authors resist the urge to add a dozen chapters on their pet history theory that has effectively nothing to do with the plot while they're at it though.
I have a simple rule: if you couldn't explain your story within the actual story or make the story strong enough to where no explanation is required, you have failed.
Reminds me of Steins;Gate, the whole series is about a guy suffering like hell to save everyone and turns out that the only solution is to literally undo everything he did, it doesn't just go "and none of that happened" but it even goes into detail on how he undos every single thing he did trough the show It's like the thing is rubbing it in your face, but it stills pulls out some bs so the main character gets the girl at the end (because she somehow remembers a sliver of what happened in the ereased time lines for some bs, unexplained reason), i really regret wasting my time with it And the whole show is a "asexual guy builds a harem of girls" trope too, if the ending wasn't bad enough
@@rompevuevitos222 Have to disagree on the "because she somehow remembers a sliver of what happened in the ereased time lines for some bs, unexplained reason". It's literally explained why that happens in Faris's chapter.
Endings that should be avoided: >"It was all a dream" >Characters going back in time, change the cause and the event almost like "it never happened" >Everyone dies. >Running off to the sunset while problems are yet still unsolved and not concluded.
@@artman40 Life is Strange in a Nutshell. Go back in time and let Chloe die and all of the problems are solved within a day. Fuck that ending, I choosed let the tornado destroy Arcadia Bay.
@@artman40 Yet another disappointing ending with time travel: after an entire story of wish-fulfillment where the character always gets everything he ever wants with no effort, he goes back in time and creates all the circumstances that made him so great and successful in the first place (which will also take no effort since he already has everything he needs to make it work, because logic).
@leviticus_ I've got question guys. How about ending, that goes like this: MC was bad person for whole series, narcissistic way. Climax is when he sees his mistakes and is grossed out by his actions. But he didn't change after discovering he's piece of trash instead he just directs his agression at himself, when he always blamed everyone else and now is blaming himself. It's still no good- he still isn't cured. And has very honest conversation with the most important person for him. That person tells him that he need to change and stop punishing himself cuz it's way to nowhere. Whole ending is gives hope but there's no continuation. Is it good ending???
Or when everything gets reversed by time travel to where something never happened. The original Infinity Gauntlet storyline in comics wrapped up its crisis that way, easily the weakest part of the story. All credit to Markus & Mcfeely and the Russo brothers for sidestepping that with their own version in Endgame.
As a (mostly) discovery writer/panster, I really appreciated that Honest Writing Advice segment. I've been stressing out over how to end my stories because I let the characters develop for themselves, instead of plotting it out in great detail beyond general ideas. I feel bad because I don't want to write something terrible at the end and disappoint the audience, but doing what comes naturally would probably be better than trying to show how "incredibly smart"I am. A few times in the past, me not being able to figure out what the ending was made me stop the story before I even started writing, and that sort of mentality is hard to break, but I'm getting through it. And you're right, way too many sites encourage people to have the "perfect ending" when that won't work for everyone. Anyway, just wanted to say thanks again.
Honest writing advice is difficult to make, nevermind the entire "everyone writes in their own way" deal. Making terrible writing advice on the other hand is easy, you just talk shit about franchises without specifically mentioning them in ironically unironic fashion.
I mean, "Terrible Writing Advice" is still honest writing advice for what not to do. Knowing where the pitfalls are is already half the work for not falling in them.
Never writing an ending is actually a perfectly viable writing strategy! A series that never ends becomes a perpetual cash cow as new installments keep coming out for eternity! Just ignore the inevitable power creep and drift from the original plot and characterization that drew in fans in the first place. They'll still buy it!
I know that. I completed a long story once (and some short stories), but recently I felt like trying again, and finally... I see the light at the end of the tunnel.
I don't either, but it's because I improve and then want to redo it because I know I can do better now than I did previously, or I have too many good ideas. I think I've gotten out of that spiral, because at the very least I've stabilized the worldbuilding process.
Out of all the fiction I've experienced, I think the best ending is Fullmetal Alchemist : Brotherhood. The ending was quite literally the perfect way to finish a 64 episode journey of stakes and sacrifices. Code Geass and Avatar are a close second
Laiser I really liked Avatar's ending; despite it being predictable, it was satisfying (something GoT writers could learn from), but it did have some problems, namely the whole mess that was Katara and Aang (I never felt that Katara would be on board with that, she acts like Aang's mother or older sister and the character opportunities for Aang that would come from this rejection would be much more interesting than a half hearted relationship ending) and Iroh abandoning Zuko to become firelord at 16 for nothing more than a tea shop, but I do think it could have done with a sequel; the originally planned season 4. I feel like having at least a passing reference to the fact that they need to rebuild and that this is only the first step would help the ending. I'll explain what was going to happen in season 4 and why I think this would be a great addition if you want, just ask. I also loved the ending to Code Geass; despite the messy parts of the 2nd season (the whole 'the emperor was good-ish all along' bit mainly), it did an amazing job of bringing the story to a satisfying, if tragic ending. FMAB was amazing, my one criticism was that the whole 'Mustang wants to be the Führer' arc was never really completed. A single sentence saying that he was putting aside his aims for now to help the Ishvalans and a photo in the end credits of him as Führer would make that ending perfect.
if you want good stories from the weirdest things imaginable, play pokémon mystery dungeon explorers of sky; for some reason they made this game have an actually insanely good story (most importantly ending) despite the fact that 1) it's a children's game (it isn't as stupid as normal for a children's game tho) 2) it's a pokémon game (they have overly simple stories)
Gah, I usually hate those videos with a burning passion. If I want my brain food chewed, I'll do it myself. A critical dissection of the overall work can provide insight but JUST the ending? Quit wasting my time, you know?
c oh I don’t. What concerns me is that some people do. They sat through a movie and paid so little attention evidently they need it explained. It exposes a preposterous lack of intellectual curiosity that is foreign to me.
Nom Blob, that’s the bit about how the author just meant to describe the color of the curtains but some rando English professor spends a semester exploring the deeper meaning. What frustrates me about that is often time said professor suggests theirs is the only best interpretation. The part about endings explained videos that horrifies me is for example I found just now a video explaining the ending of the first episode in the Love Death & Robots series from NetFlix. The whole point of those episodes is for the viewer not to have all the details and to fill them in themselves with their imagination them discuss and compare with the rest of society the differing ideas.
Johnathon Haney if you don’t already know the channel Good Bad Flicks, I enjoy his breakdowns of movies. He covers the whole movie, pokes a little fun and then goes into how it was made and the politics of the producers and directors and all that noise. Mostly horror flicks dude loves horror flicks.
The only time that I've seen the "It was all a dream" ending work was in the movie Repo Men. I won't spoil what happens, but throughout there are little things that you would normally attribute to bad and predictable storytelling, but turn out to be hints that what is happening isn't entirely real. It ties up the story so perfectly. It's a criminally underrated film.
I remember that one and yeah, you're right. There's one sequence in particular which basically told you how it was going to end but you didn't realize it at the time.
“Just watch out that the character doesn’t learn anything from the dream and experience actual character growth.” *A Christmas Carol has left the chat*
The best way to resolve the love triangle is to not solve it at all and keep it vague so the fans can have shipping wars for generations....or several days...
We should PS the protagonist hanging off the cliff, and make it a meme "... And that's why hes called cliff hanger ' Can't hold on... Much Longer!!!'" Seriously, Valve ain't gonna make that game guys. We've known it for years,
@@nerothewateruser8030 It ended with the Mother dying from an illness and Ted's kids giving him the blessing to date their "Aunt" Robin because apparently, the whole reason he told the story was to convince the kids that he should date Robin. It undermined all the character development he and Robin went through for all nine seasons.
"All a dream" endings are right up there with time travel endings. I remember watching Prince of Persia (Sands of Time?, don't know if there are others) and I wanted to scream at that final bullshit. CONGRATULATIONS, YOU JUST RENDERED YOUR WHOLE MOVIE POINTLESS. BAD.
That's also how the first Sands of Time game ended, though I give the game sequels credit for showing an escalating blowback every time the Prince tries to "fix" the situation. He finally resolves everything when he STOPS trying to undo everything and finally live with the consequences of his choices.
I remember when I wrote the first draft of my story. While I am mostly an outliner and I had everything planned, there's a bit of discovery writing in me. There was one action scene when I was just writing when suddenly one of the bad guys comes up behind and stabs one of the characters... I stopped when that happened and realized what I had done. I never meant for them to die, they just happened to be in a setting where realistically they WOULD die. In the end I decided to keep it and move on. I have since edited the story where that makes more sense, but you get the point.
The best ending is when the protagonist and the antagonist are fighting for a power-up and the antagonist gets the power-up but it doesn't work so the protagonist steals the power-up and it does work and the antagonist's power doesn't work anymore and the protagonist kills the antagonist in one hit and then suddenly a flashback with no transition to before the story even started giving the feeling of the story both ending too fast and too slow at the exact same time
8:13 Remember reading an interesting story on wattpad that did this. Really it was just a way to stretch out the series since it should've ended after the first sequel. Falling in love with characters and then learned they were imaginary. Got so irritated I dropped the final book altogether.
Some of my favorite endings: Hunger Games- It seems super happy on the surface, but if you look deeper it is so much more complicated. Peeta is happy and I think Katniss is to a certain extent too, but she most likely won't ever be able to leave the past behind completely. Loss, trauma, and her mistakes will continue to haunt her throughout her life. Lord of the Rings- Some people got better endings than others, but they all felt natural for the character. Most were bittersweet. I went through a full range of emotions reading them. Far From Men- The entire film built up to the last few minutes. I was confident Mohamed would follow through on his plan, but praying the whole time there would be an out. The scene where he made his final choice left me so happy and emotionally drained at the same time. I like that they actually made Daru accept the consequences of his choice. It hurt so much to see him suffer, but you know he will be okay in the end. I believe that Daru did the right thing (though I loved how much struggled to do it at times), but actions always have consequences. It was a brave ending. Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood: The characters went through and lost so much already. I needed a happy ending just as much as they did. This was a rare case of a unabashedly happy, cheesy ending working perfectly in the story.
I really hated Hunger Games’ ending, they killed off all the likeable characters and then didn’t even give the characters I didn’t give a shit about a happy ending? They’re literally living in a graveyard. That book made me feel like shit and I never want to touch the series again because of it.
Alice in Wonderland being a dream fits thematically and makes the whole story make sense. Same with Oz. The themes in that revolve around Dorothy coming to terms with her own life. The lesson she learns carries through past the dream. That's the key to making that ending work, I think.
I'm currently writing my first story ever. I actually had a great idea of a plot-twist, and chose to build my whole story around it. It's sooo fun to write it, always giving hints about what is happening, and trying to balance the "too obvious" and the "too cryptic"
TWA aint the only Guy covering Writing-Advice-presented-with-Huor. Hello Future Me does so too, but way mre funny: Big Crticism Essays like Madvocastesa Flash-Videos, Jay Excis legendary Doctor Who Video and Hbomberguys and Krimson Rogues whole channel is about 'Epic Long Videos'.
I know someone who wrote a short story, ending it with meteor hitting earth and killing everyone rather than answering any of the compelling questions he set up. Of course, he was intentionally trolling everyone he handed it to read.
There's also the fact that some stories are only going to be predictable to some people because they're smart enough to figure it out. Usually because they've experienced so much fiction that they can see the patterns. I was able to predict a lot of the stuff in Good Omens. But it was still a satisfying journey getting there.
Send it to kishimoto as well. How do you manage to make two great villains to end the series on and then think it’s a good idea to pull out an alien queen out of your ass
7:37 Thanks glad you dropped the jokes here. Think this is the best advice when it comes to endings. Really wish more people made it sound as easy as it is.
@@jge8144 Subversion for the sake of subversion. Making characters do things that totally defy their arcs. Giving short, flimsy justifications and lazy build up for their sudden changes that feel like someone shoehorned it in after the fact. It was obviously rushed because so much of it could've been solved with a few more episodes of thoughtful build up. Making important things they've built up over a long time turn out utterly irrelevant. Seemingly looking at the fan theories and trying their best to do the opposite of that even if the theories made a ton of sense. Gave pretty much everyone a miserable or unsatisfying conclusion. If you're really curious, just watch it yourself for the full effect. Or settle for one of the dozens of videos dissecting that season.
@@jge8144 these videos go into painstaking detail of what is wrong with GoT season 8 and why, and yes that is a two and a half hour breakdown of an hour long episode. ua-cam.com/video/GI7zy1PTMp0/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/5B8Ycfy-Ldc/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/7K0KaEYX41c/v-deo.html
@@jge8144 Long Story Short: Fan theories figured out the twist at the end a while ago, and to avoid the "predictable ending" the showrunmers basically made a rushed, poorly justified change in the story that messed up everything that the show was building towards to be "subversive". It didn't really help that the writing was already going to crap because the show writers overshot the books and didn't have George RR Martin's dialogue and story beats to crib from anymore. TL;DR half of the things that The video was mocking could be applied to the GOT finale.
@@emblemblade9245 I mean, it depends on your source material, but in the case of DOOM, there are zombies that are just possessed humans if I recall correctly.
@@kayseek1248 Absolutely! Alternate History about the Boer Republics should totally take place in the US despite the fact that the US is only tangentially effected by this change and having the story take place in, y'know, Africa would not only make much more sense but also be much more interesting! That's an excellent idea!
with a side order of "have most of the antagonists turn good at the last minute for no reason regardless of if what they said or did doesn't equate to being forgiven so easily and/or their good motives do not in any way shape or form match up with their previously established evil and cruel personalites and actions" oh and let's introduce this evil god who caused everything bad that happened but never actually acknowldge that or even have him appear in the story as the final antagonist.
Honestly that last book was a mess, and the biggest problem is that he clearly wrote himself into a corner. When he revealed the source of Galbatorix’s strength in the third book, it revealed just how dangerous he was, and how difficult taking him down would be. I thought there would be some sort of elegant and brilliant solution that would allow the heroes to outwit him, but instead it became painfully obvious that he had no idea how to get around this problem, and so instead resorted to multiple Deus Ex Machinas that opened up so many plot holes. The heroes won purely because of authorial bias, plain and simple.
You didnt touch on the Babylon 5 Special: the show is cancelled prematurely and in the middle of serious rising conflict, so the writers are forced to make a dinner scene where all of the characters get together and say "wow, wasnt x scary? Im glad y had a happy ending. Im sure z would love to be here"
There's something reassuring about the slightly forceful "stay calm and don't overthink it." Like someone's put their hands on my shoulders and told me to snap out of something. I guess out of all the procrastination videos I could have watched while writing, this was a surprisingly good and inspirational one.
It seems that there is much shade being thrown at Rian Johnson's The Last Jedi writing, but I also feel that much of this criticism can be directed toward The Legend of Korra too. Also, it's great to hear you give honest thoughts again, but will you ever be updating your site with your Honest Thoughts on your videos since March? Been missing reading those Honest Thoughts.
I think the main issue with Legend of Korra's final chapter was that the writer fell back into old bad kids-cartoon habits.Giving the villan (who's motivation was in my opinion poorly estabished) a nigh-invincible superweapon that makes little sense was a massive leap back from the much, much, much better antagonists from books one and three. Those guys had clear and understandable motives AND a reasonable plan to achieve them, that didn't hinge on a 50 meter tall robot made from a very rare material with the density and mechanical strengh of gold... Seriously, the final battle felt like an argument with a 6yrs old about his all-powerfull immaginary friend. Every time you point out a flaw in his uber-abilities, he just makes up a new one to compensate...
I feel like one of the main problems of the series was how each season was basically starting the story completely over from scratch. Each season had a new main villain, new themes, and new characters. You felt like there wasn’t enough time to deeply delve into anything the season brings because the season had to spend so much time juggling old things along with new things the season introduces. Overall it felt like they were telling 4 loosely linked stories that were rushed and had to incorporate elements from past seasons (or the past series) but was unable to effectively use those past elements.
@@bobbyferg9173 and what's wrong with that? In my opinion having different villains for each season was spectacular. Also while kora has its flaws, especially the beginning of the second season, I feel like some people are overreacting.
Tony Nola Well the thing is that they have to spend time each season building up the conflict and villain. The fact that the villains often have very little to do with each other directly kinda makes it feel like they don’t have much overall impact on the story later on. While I do think they handle this better in season 3 and especially 4, the conflicts can feel like they happen just because there needs to be a conflict. Also I believe that most people’s opinions about the series stem from the first two seasons, which bring a lot of mixed feelings. But I feel like the third and fourth seasons finally found some solid ground on how to make the series, which is a shame since Nickelodeon didn’t even air the third and fourth season on TV.
I've always wanted to write some epic fantasy story where a bunch of teenagers go on a grand adventure only for the main character to wake up at the end and realize it was a dream and wake up on the first day of school. Except when they arrive at class, one of the people from their dream is sitting there. And it's very obvious they recognize each other. Pretty much, the whole group had the same shared dream, only to find themselves sharing real life together and trying to figure out what happened and why. Ironically enough, I got THIS idea from a dream. Feel free to use it ;)
The lighthouse managed to pull the "characters were in purgatory all-along" thing But that's cuz it was narrative choice from the start of the movie, and not just some dumb twist at the end
By the way, I’m not actually ending Terrible Writing Advice or anything. That was just for the “it was all just a dream” joke.
When I saw the title I thought "wouldn't it be ironic if this was actually the end? They probably would do that"
man I love the quick self-implementation of your guide!
Honestly, I feel it was a very clever joke and a fun double twist. Though the abrupt ending joke was a little too predictable for my taste. But over all I say this video was above par and I really liked the "No I am ending this" combo with "it was a dream". Very on point.
Hey JP, I got a question. Which is worse; When a writer starts with an ending and tries to build a story around their ideal conclusion? Or A writer who starts a story and keeps it going so long they don't know how to tie up every loose end?
I get the feeling that this episode was partly a swipe at 'The Last Jedi' since Rian Johnson dumped a lot of JJ Abram's ideas for the sake of a twist.
"People will remember the botched ending over the fantastic story more." If that ain't the realest thing you ever said...
Quick tell me about literally anything that happens in Mass Effect 3 other than the ending.
@@akatoshslayer7599 I never played it.
@Akatosh Shephard kills Mordin
Right? I felt it was a criticism towards both the writer and the audience but every idiot's just too busy saying "D&D bad" to get it
Ya know, when I posted that comment, I was referring to a story in general, not Mass Effect.
I *felt* him glaring at the Game of Thrones writers.
Same. This video was written for them :D
@Eric da' MAJ Well, D&D kinda forgot that they had mastered the art of ending stories.
He's also crying while looking at Kathleen Kennedy; JJ Abrams; and Rian Johnson...
I dunno, I don’t think the ending of TLJ is where most people’s complaints lie
EmblemBlade9 the ending is the least of that shit movie’s problems
If the protagonist is single, the story has to end with him hooking up with the lead female. It's the only possible way for there to be a happy ending. Saving the world is meaningless if you don't get the girl.
Unless you're Robin Hobb D:
Save the world, lose the girl
@@WolfyAteUrSocks Save the cheerleader, save the world*
My story ends with him only just getting with her then she dies...... :/ I’m one asshole of a writer lmao
@@theamvgirlx Prince of Persia did it
Gurren Lagan subverts that ending concept
The BEST ending possible:
It turns out that the evil Dark Lord, the ones the heros of the story just stopped and planned on both destroying and conquering the world at the same time, was actually a minion of an even darker and lordier Dark Lord! It leaves room for a greater sequel on an even larger scale! Aka more $$$
Or even better, kill the dark lord in the first installment, then bring him back last minute during every sequel, because surprise, the new big bad was secretly working for him! Then rinse and repeat, and introduce a new big bad that still works for the original dark lord
It’s ok you can say the mcu
“Could I have foreshadowed this by making the main villain’s plan have holes in it that subtly suggest the presence of a more important player? Should I construct this character as an explicitly uncreative type that probably couldn’t plan their way out of a paper bag (kinda like me!)?
so ... World of Warcraft?
Actually the dark lord was a puppet to the mega dark lord, who was the protagonists friend, who was also his love interest, who was also the king of every country, who was also planning to kill Lord Killington, who was also him
Comments:
"Wow he must really hate [insert media here] to mention that."
Reality:
Terrible writing is dominant in all major media.
F**king thank you, I’m honestly pretty disillusioned to just how cynical the comments to the average TWA video is.
Translation: I HATE THIS THING AND IM PRETTY SURE JP HATES IT TOO!
Exactly, he's not the type to do something so contentious. Plus that wasnt the point of this video to start with, if you want to hear his take on criticism the watch his video on it; and yes it is sarcastic plus it doesn't "throw shade" on storytellers like everyone just assumed 🤦♂️
It's funny how everyone sees how he was criticizing D&D but failed to see how he was criticizing them as an audience as well
I mean, there jp clearly is hoisting a particular bad franchise as an example of what not to do in his videos.
I’m glad some people can still see it. The worse thing is that this shit is selling.
"Themes are for eighth grade book reports"
"Themes are for eighth grade book reports"
"Themes are for eighth grade book reports"
"Themes are for eighth grade book reports"
"Themes are for eighth grade book reports"
BeyondWalt3
Say this 3 times in the dark while staring into a mirror, and D&D will appear in it.
And then, it was only jus a dream.
@@evies.1018 I keep thinking you're talking about the super awesome roleplaying game.
@@arandomzoomer4837 Plot twist: D&D are someone's awful first-attempt Dungeons and Dragons characters come to life
@@evies.1018 There you go. But seriously I spread that game like a religion I love it so much.
“...ends suddenly and without any explana-“
Me: “wow I thought my phone still had battery left”
BAMBOOZLED AGAIN
Me: damn did my phone overheat and shut off again?
... is my phone buffering?
Is an ad popping up, and why is it taking so long?
Did my laptop disconnect from the internet at my work again? No? Good.
"But I just plugged it in! It was still at 20 perc- oh."
"Hey, how do you write endings?"
"Uh, just eat glue and write what you see"
"I don't see anything"
"That's fine"
That’s crazy I was watching that video earlier
Which video?
@@J0hnB09 JelloApocalypse's "So this is basically Adventure Time".
Ew, you don't eat glue. You sniff it.
Don't you mean "sniff glue"?
The ending to my story is quite literally “the good guys win and the bad guys lose.” Obviously there’s more to it than that. But the loose ends have been tied up beforehand, all that was left was the final battle and the culmination of the MC’s character development. Nothing more, nothing less.
And also fuck anybody who tells you happy endings are cliche or cheating or boring. Mate I have the fluffiest most saccharine ending you don’t even know. My chars have been through hell and back, all other obstacles have been cleared, all that was needed was the big bad dying. Now they can go and live normal happy lives with their families and loved ones knowing they earned that shit. Your audience will appreciate a happy ending if your characters deserve it.
Agree %100
I don't know, I like bad endings. Perhaps a little to much:originally, I was gonna end my story with both mc dying just for the sake of it. Then I relalized it was kind of contradicting the hopeful tone in the rest of the book lol.
@@legrandliseurtri7495 Such an ending NEEDS to make sense. Best example of your preferred type I know about is Michael Moorcock's first Eternal Champion novel. It starts as your Chosen One narrative and then twists everything into tragedy.
''Your audience will appreciate a happy ending if your characters deserve it.''
Nailed it. And that's what makes the difference between good and bad ''happy endings'' for me. If the story was just the MC winning over and over again with no struggle and then gets his happy ending, then it's boring as heck (though to be fair, the same can be said of the story as a whole at that point). If they fought and lost and struggled back up and so on, you bet I want to see them succeed.
I do like the middle-ground of bittersweets ending myself if the setting of the story simply doesn't allow for a happy ending for everyone (basically any story following multiple characters in different factions that are neither good nor evil), but that doesn't mean I don't want them to try and reach their happy ending after all they have to go through.
Agreed! If the characters have been through everything under the sun and then end in tragedy it usually feels cheap to me(there are exceptions to this rule tho). Don't underestimate a happy ending!
_"If you want a happy ending, that depends, of course, on where you stop your story."_
*~ Orson Welles*
does it imply it's either always actually a sad ending? Then what's the point of story, if it's implied it'll go sad really.
Shoter Aredein it also implies that a story could end sadly even though it gets better. It depends upon the narrative and how you end it, so neither are really the correct way to interpretation them
@Tiamat Michelle Hart Or a sad-ish ending when the characters eventually die of old age/sickness/murder/etc. or destroyed emotionally and mentally after becoming immortal and living too long. Life ends eventually after all.... so the story of one's life end eventually. Unless the story drags on about how they influenced the world after they died and stuff of course
Reminds me of that running gag in Rango where they keep foreshadowing his eventual death and then...
...he dies at a super old age, long after the main adventure, from falling down the stairs or something.
"mwaAAAAAHHHHH theeee frenshhhhampagne hasalwaysbeencelebratedforitsexcellence" - Also Orson Welles
Do writers really struggle with their endings? I'm more a "I know where everyone's coming from and I know how it ends, but how do I fill the in-between?" kind of guy.
Oh, absolutely. Remember how J P brought up the pantsers who never plan anything? Or think of every person who has been writing a manga for years and years. It definitely happens.
My problem is the opposite: I have binders full of story details, the ending and the character arcs all figured out already... But where do I BEGIN the story???
@@Newfiecat
Pick a time or location thematically related to your ending (the trope is literally called book ends). Like for example if your book ends in a prison break and is about figuring out how to escape start with some fitting incident at the main gate, the thing seperating the characters from freedom.
As am I.
It depends. I've personally written about 4 different stories, however the longest running story I have currently, I'm still struggling with the ending. Don't want a hopeful, uplifting one but the ones I've come up with have often left those who know about it feel worse... I want something that leaves someone feeling "Complete" after reading it but coming up with a solid complete ending to a story that has spanned and evolved over a decade is.... difficult...
I heard this advice once and I have used it in my writing ever since.
"Decide your starting point, then decide your endpoint. Your middle is where the fun stuff happens."
it's like your fingers
That was the start of a book actually. The otterbury incident or something
That's how you get clusterfucks like the ending of Star vs. the forces of evil though.
That's me all the way. The story I've been writing, called Let Me Help: An Alien Femdom Love Story, had a clear beginning and I know where it's going to end. The hard part is getting to the ending while making sure the middle part makes sense, plus throwing in some plot twists for good measure. What I have so far is on DeviantArt if you want to give it a read.
That's what I do
Figure out the beginning, the end, and all the main plot points before the rest
"What the hell, this clearly contradicts everything you ever..."
"If you were a real fan, you would be aware of an interview the author did five years ago in alaska where he clearly stated this was the case. Also, in the seventh edition of the comic spin-off series, we see several events foreshadowing this exact twist, so don't even try."
RWBY in a nutshell
@@malachiowens3423 couldnt agree more
@@malachiowens3423 wut
lol
*Didn't you read that specific twitter post of the autor from 9 years ago?*
How to end a story:
The protagonist married someone and had kids
THE END.
What if they're asexual and aromantic
@@novameowww But then how will there be a love triangle?
@@h-man1371 You're right. Completely forgot about that
But my protagonist is only twelve... How? Just how?
@@allhailbabychuuya9213 make a Epilogue were the Character is Older
George RR Martin also can’t figure out how to end his story. So DnD watched this video and wrote one for him.
babylonbee.com/news/the-lengths-people-go-to-in-order-to-avoid-spoilers-this-guy-refused-to-finish-writing-the-books-his-favorite-tv-show-was-based-on-so-he-could-be-surprised
I'm starting to think he saw the iceberg coming and decided to just hunker down and wait until everyone forgot the tv show existed.
Endings are the easiest thing in the world I don't get why anyone would struggle with them. This happened because this happened. Its like knocking over dominos. I didn't do may taxes because I wanted to watch tv and they were hard. I didn't hier an accounant because I am broke because of that I am rotting in jail the end.
@@mariokarter13
Martin will be dead by the time everyone forgets that abomination.
And thus Martin is as responsible for the final season of GOT's failure as D&D. Not only did he not know how to end the story, he kept getting distracted by every single side character he created, which added to the mess.
"You just have to cross the finish line. You don't have to do cartwheels or somersaults, just don't face-plant." Well said, JP! I love it!
This is actually really good advice
"The best ending is one that ends suddenly without any ex-" *darkness*
I reloaded the page twice before realising it was intentional
Me too! I was so confused! And than I realized how stupid I was being
I thought my phone died lol
Bro, Same, I thought it was an ad at first
I thought it was an ad for 3 seconds before I grinned and checked the progress bar.
Considering how often my internet cuts off, it was entirely plausible for me to believe.
“The best ending is one that ends suddenly and without any explana-"
***SCREAMS***
Breh that's not very calm of you tho
@@KaaneDragonShinobi It's a rare moment, enjoy it
It was never mentioned aliens. Aliens saved everyone, no explaination needed.
On a serious note , in a dark medium that can be meta, might be a good ending, its a good ending for review the series with andy daily, becaue its about his down spiral and it ends meta dark. Good series.
Inb4 a lot of webcomics.
Twin Peaks
5:43 This reminds me of something :
Writer : So, are your expectations subverted, yet?
Reader : Yes. I was expecting a good story!
*Rian Weasley wants to know your location.*
@@ShibuNub3305 His idea of a good story is more wrong than... Wrong Weasley
@@williamdrum9899 ...FACEPLANTING a story before finish is such an Extreme Symptom of our IP-filled Capitalist-Hell. I cnat believe it happened so hard it retroactively hurt everything that came before for Bleach, HIMYM, 7DS, definetly for Cube-World and arguably for Minecraft.
Reminds me a lot of fnaf lol
You forget to justify your botched ending as "subversing expectations" ... and atttack disillusioned fans in social media ....
About 70 years ago, a similar thing happened with the world's first miniseries, Patrick Mcgoohan's The Prisoner. In terms of genre weirdness, only Twin Peaks and Legion have ever matched that one. Mcgoohan didn't know how to end his story until he actually sat down to write it. And when the finale aired, people got so pissed that he spent a couple of weeks in the mountains. But...he was DELIGHTED by the response. He never attacked anyone over it, just calmly explained how he got there. D&D could have learned from that.
Anybody can subvert expectations. Only good writers can Subvert expectations in a good way
The "best" cliffhanger ending has to be that 1980s episode of "Doctor Who" where the Doctor randomly starts clambering down a cliff face, and is left hanging as the credits roll. If I remember correctly, the following episode he simply clamberd back up to the top of the cliff, and then got on with the story!
I think the key is to write an entire story forshadowing that the butler did it and at the last minute reveal that it was a completely different character the entire time. That subversion of expectations will surely satisfy the reader. (I'm looking at you Game of Thrones)
Bobby Gane But what if the theme of the story is to end prejudice against suspicious looking butlers?
No that is completely stupid mysteries can be subtle and you can have a red herring but can't come out of left feild.
First Saw movie.
Can my red herring come from the lake or the pond?
@@greenstuff9361 Not unless its the left pond badum tisssssssssssssss
I just want to take a moment to point out that most modern kids movies end with a dance party and once you notice that it will drive you mad because it _always happens_
Ever since sherk, it’s always been there, and I thought that shark tale killed it, but then....that gas car.
*That damn mad gas car.*
@@ShibuNub3305 I spent 4 hours trying to figure out what "Sherk" was now I'm on "gas car"
Really? I thought they stopped.
@@GippyHappy Mad at gas car
Madagascar
Hope I helped.
@@milicadiy I pissed myself reading this haha
It was actually nice to hear JP say: "Nope. No clever sarcasm this time. You have to actually hear this straight and honest." And give genuine advice instead of his normal advice.
Kind of like 'Honest Thoughts'?
Yeah but I think it would have looked even better if at the same time the usual avatar were replaced by another, like the Inner Critic.
I love this series. But actually betraying my expectations and giving us actual advice with the scathing sarcasm intact was both enjoyable and entertaini... D’OH NO IM DEAD!
The story switched tone and genres and you should feel bad! Cuz it was GRIMDARK all along!
To Be Continued?
Fan theory: KidRunnerH is actually alive and was pulling the strings the entire time because they are the real villain.
And then the story really ended with-
YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE EXPECTING THE REAL ENDING, BUT IT WAS I, DIO!
HA! All according to plan. The sequel hath been hooked.. my unwoven greatly exaggerated death has put me back in the shadows. 😈 Now I inch ever closer to not only this video’s sponsor Skillshare but Audible.com as well. Then set everything on fire! Because GRIMDARK?
I totally didn’t not plan to make a sequel veering the story into a maelstrom of referendum trying to meet Pheonix commenter’s expectations!
Phoenix48484757 Nah, the black abrupt end was caused by you as a cliffhanger sequel hook. KidRunner was just a red herring. You cant fool me twice
I could do vividly imagine this guy's voice reading this
“What was that about corruption? Sorry, I was too busy taking a bribe.”
Best line in all cinema
The best ending is when a surprise villain turns up half way in the last third with no foreshadowing or previous mentions whatsoever to deliver a last minute climax. No one could possibly expect it and therefore is the best kind of twist, because a twist shouldn’t be a journey for the reader to figure out alongside the characters, it should just be so unpredictable that no one could possibly imagine it
NAME YOUR TWIST VILLAIN
Wreck It Ralph: King Candy.
Incredibles 2: Evelyn Deavor. heh...heh...
Zootopia: Dawn Bellwether. heh...heh....
Frozen: Hans Wester-
NO
I find a problem with 3 of 4 villains
Bonus points if the twist villain's personality completely changes after the reveal even when in the presence of others who don't know he's a villain.
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T H A T W A S H I S M I S T A K E!!!!
@@sayoriiiiiiiiiiiiii well king candy was pretty Sinister already
He was just more rotten than he appeared at first glance
@@isauldron4337 they did say 3 of 4 villains, maybe that’s what they meant?
I've always thought that revealing a twist at the end of a story is the worst time, because it gives the book absolutely zero time to deal with the consequences of what the twist means for the world and its characters. If the twist is revealed in the middle, it allows the twist to be interacted with and lead to a satisfying conclusion, rather than just dropping the audience into a "How Does That Change What I Just Read" mentality
It can work if it has some finale for the characters and really good forshadowing that recontextualizes the story, making it rereadable. And is meant to end open.
Otherwise, agree.especially in series finals that are might not renewed.
basically, it forces the reader to recontextualize everything they just read by themselves and encourages them to nitpick/reread into earlier chapters rather than growing and developing with this revelation alongside the characters
It has pros and cons, it gives you time to play with the new perspective, but it doesn't linger nearly as much in the readers minds.
I think it depends on the twist. If the twist concerns some important part of the story, but not the main plot or premise, it is often more interesting to have the characters deal with it.
A twist that reveals that the central premise or the main plot where actually something else can often fits better at the very end. The reason being not that it would not be interesting, but rather that a central twist would often realistically throw most of the characters into a crisis and have them reevaluate their motivations and goals, or even disrupt all character connections. That can of course be very interesting, however it has the potential to change the tone of the story aswell as all character relations to the point where it's basically a new story with new characters in a new genre.
Where would you say these twists should go (side note: how many twists is too many for one story?)?
1) Main character's give-advice-from-HQ teammates are in his/her head, not in some secret physical location (known to this character/group, but not to the reader or other characters).
2) A side character's "twin who's never in the same place at the same time" is really a multiple personality, and inspires the main character to be open about his/her teammates' existence.
3) What looks like serial murders are actually serial funerals set up by an unlicensed doctor who keeps accidentally killing his patients.
The best sign is when fan theories spread that whatever ending you wrote was really all just a dream, even though you never planned that, because the fans find that a less disappointing possibility . Oh, hi, Mass Effect 3.
I cri everytime.
*DAMNIT BIOWARE*
Attack on titan
Don't forget the part where they consider a comedic side content (dlc) the true ending, even if said content has no proper placement to the main story
You literally predicted Jujutsu Kaisen
"The epilogue is the best place to solve love triangles!"
Yeah, just like in the "War and Peace"
Alexios Comnenoi
Or Harry Potter ;)
Or 99% of Shonen manga
@@dorkyface harry potter executed that perfectly so its really not bad. I'll give that a pass
Most authors resist the urge to add a dozen chapters on their pet history theory that has effectively nothing to do with the plot while they're at it though.
@@alexworld257 well the only shonen manga that dont have that are Ushio to Tora, JoJo, Gintama, Soul Eater, and Fullmetal Alchemist
"a writer should only consider this a success if they send the audience directly to the wiki, EVANGELION."
I was sleep deprived when I saw the end of evangelion. The ending makes perfect sense to very tired people.
Yeah, I hate it.
I used to think I was missing out on that show until I heard people talk about it.
To be fair the shows Lore is intentionally ignored the characters are plot devices to convey the themes of the show
I have a simple rule: if you couldn't explain your story within the actual story or make the story strong enough to where no explanation is required, you have failed.
The dream ending...
*Shudders after reading 10 books of Vampire Diaries where it ends with "they went back in time and nothing actually happened"*
Wait, really?!
That’s somehow better and even worse than the TV show ending
This is one series where I actually prefer the show ending
Reminds me of Steins;Gate, the whole series is about a guy suffering like hell to save everyone and turns out that the only solution is to literally undo everything he did, it doesn't just go "and none of that happened" but it even goes into detail on how he undos every single thing he did trough the show
It's like the thing is rubbing it in your face, but it stills pulls out some bs so the main character gets the girl at the end (because she somehow remembers a sliver of what happened in the ereased time lines for some bs, unexplained reason), i really regret wasting my time with it
And the whole show is a "asexual guy builds a harem of girls" trope too, if the ending wasn't bad enough
@@rompevuevitos222 Have to disagree on the "because she somehow remembers a sliver of what happened in the ereased time lines for some bs, unexplained reason". It's literally explained why that happens in Faris's chapter.
There's two things in this world that will always piss off people.
The first is not completing your sentence.
The second is
...talking about completing your story without actually doing it.
Jacking of into the ballpit
Hiding a landmine under a whoopy cushion
@@dodojesus4529 *off
This is like cards against humanity
Endings that should be avoided:
>"It was all a dream"
>Characters going back in time, change the cause and the event almost like "it never happened"
>Everyone dies.
>Running off to the sunset while problems are yet still unsolved and not concluded.
Another disappointing time travel ending:
1. By time travel, you caused the thing you were trying to prevent from happening in the first place.
@@artman40 Life is Strange in a Nutshell. Go back in time and let Chloe die and all of the problems are solved within a day.
Fuck that ending, I choosed let the tornado destroy Arcadia Bay.
@@artman40 Yet another disappointing ending with time travel: after an entire story of wish-fulfillment where the character always gets everything he ever wants with no effort, he goes back in time and creates all the circumstances that made him so great and successful in the first place (which will also take no effort since he already has everything he needs to make it work, because logic).
@@MegaGlassguy That's why I prefer alternate timeline-type of time travel.
@leviticus_
I've got question guys.
How about ending, that goes like this:
MC was bad person for whole series, narcissistic way. Climax is when he sees his mistakes and is grossed out by his actions. But he didn't change after discovering he's piece of trash instead he just directs his agression at himself, when he always blamed everyone else and now is blaming himself.
It's still no good- he still isn't cured. And has very honest conversation with the most important person for him. That person tells him that he need to change and stop punishing himself cuz it's way to nowhere.
Whole ending is gives hope but there's no continuation.
Is it good ending???
Oh yes. I hate it when everything was just a dream.
Or when everything gets reversed by time travel to where something never happened. The original Infinity Gauntlet storyline in comics wrapped up its crisis that way, easily the weakest part of the story. All credit to Markus & Mcfeely and the Russo brothers for sidestepping that with their own version in Endgame.
Fancy seeing you here
@@jeanyeap4229 hello there
@@quantummelody2959 :-)
@@violetrain4638 Well, Super Mario Bros 2. took place in a world called Subcon, so it was justified.
2:39
“It’s Cliffhanger, hanging from a cliiiiiiiff!”
“Can’t... hold... on... much... longer!
“And that’s why he’s called Cliffhanger!”
As soon as I saw this I heard the song in my head! Between the Lions was my fix as a kid!
Someone else who heard that too!!
Beat me to it! Curses!
OW, right in the CHILDHOOD!!!
I remember this
8:38 he was arrested for giving honest advice.
"If it's just 'the good guys win and the bad guys lose', that's fine."
THANK YOU.
Fr
As a (mostly) discovery writer/panster, I really appreciated that Honest Writing Advice segment. I've been stressing out over how to end my stories because I let the characters develop for themselves, instead of plotting it out in great detail beyond general ideas. I feel bad because I don't want to write something terrible at the end and disappoint the audience, but doing what comes naturally would probably be better than trying to show how "incredibly smart"I am. A few times in the past, me not being able to figure out what the ending was made me stop the story before I even started writing, and that sort of mentality is hard to break, but I'm getting through it. And you're right, way too many sites encourage people to have the "perfect ending" when that won't work for everyone.
Anyway, just wanted to say thanks again.
Love Bad Writing be Roasted?
Madvocate, Jay Exci and Hbomberguy do it all the time for TV-Shows.
And Kriomson Rogue does it for Books.
I cant wait for your next series
"Honest writting advice"
I would actually watch that
Honest writing advice is difficult to make, nevermind the entire "everyone writes in their own way" deal. Making terrible writing advice on the other hand is easy, you just talk shit about franchises without specifically mentioning them in ironically unironic fashion.
Honest writing advice would be more informative but would take away from the humour. I think it’s cool that he’s going to try honest writing advice
I mean, "Terrible Writing Advice" is still honest writing advice for what not to do. Knowing where the pitfalls are is already half the work for not falling in them.
You'll probably like this video then, from the same channel: ua-cam.com/video/tZ3FnbzNwss/v-deo.html
There's too many channels that do that already
I like that honest JP's accent is way stronger than sarcastic JP.
It's the little details.
You know, this would be helpful besides for the fact I never actually *get* to the end
Just come up with the end first and then just make the rest of the story a foreseeable device to rush there :)
Never writing an ending is actually a perfectly viable writing strategy! A series that never ends becomes a perpetual cash cow as new installments keep coming out for eternity! Just ignore the inevitable power creep and drift from the original plot and characterization that drew in fans in the first place. They'll still buy it!
I know that. I completed a long story once (and some short stories), but recently I felt like trying again, and finally... I see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Spoiler: You weren't actually supposed to follow the advice laid out on the other story vids.
I don't either, but it's because I improve and then want to redo it because I know I can do better now than I did previously, or I have too many good ideas. I think I've gotten out of that spiral, because at the very least I've stabilized the worldbuilding process.
"Why have style over substance when you can use style to _fake_ substance."
Now that's the kind of advice I came to hear.
Out of all the fiction I've experienced, I think the best ending is Fullmetal Alchemist : Brotherhood. The ending was quite literally the perfect way to finish a 64 episode journey of stakes and sacrifices. Code Geass and Avatar are a close second
Laiser I really liked Avatar's ending; despite it being predictable, it was satisfying (something GoT writers could learn from), but it did have some problems, namely the whole mess that was Katara and Aang (I never felt that Katara would be on board with that, she acts like Aang's mother or older sister and the character opportunities for Aang that would come from this rejection would be much more interesting than a half hearted relationship ending) and Iroh abandoning Zuko to become firelord at 16 for nothing more than a tea shop, but I do think it could have done with a sequel; the originally planned season 4. I feel like having at least a passing reference to the fact that they need to rebuild and that this is only the first step would help the ending. I'll explain what was going to happen in season 4 and why I think this would be a great addition if you want, just ask.
I also loved the ending to Code Geass; despite the messy parts of the 2nd season (the whole 'the emperor was good-ish all along' bit mainly), it did an amazing job of bringing the story to a satisfying, if tragic ending.
FMAB was amazing, my one criticism was that the whole 'Mustang wants to be the Führer' arc was never really completed. A single sentence saying that he was putting aside his aims for now to help the Ishvalans and a photo in the end credits of him as Führer would make that ending perfect.
@@aster-naut: IIRC Mustang doesn't become the Führer, at least not right away, due to being blind. Instead, Grumman assumes the position.
The fma 2003 series ending was a mess
A rushed weak conclusion
@@isauldron4337
Yeah, hende why I specifically referred to FMAB
if you want good stories from the weirdest things imaginable, play pokémon mystery dungeon explorers of sky; for some reason they made this game have an actually insanely good story (most importantly ending) despite the fact that 1) it's a children's game (it isn't as stupid as normal for a children's game tho) 2) it's a pokémon game (they have overly simple stories)
Terrible Writing Advice: Today we are talking about how to end a story.
Me (grabs popcorn): Let's see how many jabs he can make at Game of Thrones.
In fairness to some writers, I’ve seen “ending explained” UA-cam videos for some of the simplest movies ever.
Gah, I usually hate those videos with a burning passion. If I want my brain food chewed, I'll do it myself. A critical dissection of the overall work can provide insight but JUST the ending? Quit wasting my time, you know?
c oh I don’t. What concerns me is that some people do. They sat through a movie and paid so little attention evidently they need it explained. It exposes a preposterous lack of intellectual curiosity that is foreign to me.
charles hetrick What was that famous quote again? About a blue curtain? Those videos are exactly like that
Nom Blob, that’s the bit about how the author just meant to describe the color of the curtains but some rando English professor spends a semester exploring the deeper meaning. What frustrates me about that is often time said professor suggests theirs is the only best interpretation.
The part about endings explained videos that horrifies me is for example I found just now a video explaining the ending of the first episode in the Love Death & Robots series from NetFlix. The whole point of those episodes is for the viewer not to have all the details and to fill them in themselves with their imagination them discuss and compare with the rest of society the differing ideas.
Johnathon Haney if you don’t already know the channel Good Bad Flicks, I enjoy his breakdowns of movies. He covers the whole movie, pokes a little fun and then goes into how it was made and the politics of the producers and directors and all that noise. Mostly horror flicks dude loves horror flicks.
You got me at the part when you started giving good advice, I'm not gonna lie.
The only time that I've seen the "It was all a dream" ending work was in the movie Repo Men. I won't spoil what happens, but throughout there are little things that you would normally attribute to bad and predictable storytelling, but turn out to be hints that what is happening isn't entirely real. It ties up the story so perfectly. It's a criminally underrated film.
I remember that one and yeah, you're right. There's one sequence in particular which basically told you how it was going to end but you didn't realize it at the time.
Wizard of Oz?
A Christmas Carol is another good example
“My life as a Toaster time traveler” does the ‘it all was a dream’ thing pretty good
“Just watch out that the character doesn’t learn anything from the dream and experience actual character growth.”
*A Christmas Carol has left the chat*
Good thing they actually did learn something
The only time that shit ever worked
The best ending is a setup for another cash cow- I mean sequel
And when the cow runs out, we're gonna beat a dead horse until it gives milk.
And then make some prequels and a spin off for every character
Finally I know how to resolve the love triangle. It is finally over.
The feuds shall run their due course.
*Eventually*
Resolving the love triangle? Fool, that was merely a dream you had!
The best way to resolve the love triangle is to not solve it at all and keep it vague so the fans can have shipping wars for generations....or several days...
Uuuuuntil the SEQUEL!
I wonder. How many love triangles have been solved in fiction by just making it a polygamous/open relationship.
Instead of finishing my story, I decided to take a break and watch this video.
Don’t worry, it’s what Terrible Writing Advice would want
Yup, and now following this advice you know all you have to do is stop the story where it's at, Surprise!
"Just leave the audience hanging forever." Ah yes, the Half-Life 3 school of cliff hanger creation.
We should PS the protagonist hanging off the cliff, and make it a meme "... And that's why hes called cliff hanger ' Can't hold on... Much Longer!!!'" Seriously, Valve ain't gonna make that game guys. We've known it for years,
Lol half-life has ended on a cliffhanger for 5 FUCKING TIMES already.
Someone: it was all a dream
Comic relief character: *Z A P P E R S*
6:54
This is actually really wholesome and sooo true.
RIGHT?! That took a serious load off
lol it's a good thing to find a fallow weeblet
"You just have to cross the finish line" really hit me
@@christophergarcia9022 It's something few people who start stories do, trust me. Mostly, they just talk about it.
I feel like he was addressing the endings to Voltron, Game of Thrones, and How I Met Your Mother all at once.
How did How I met your Mother end?
@@nerothewateruser8030 It ended with the Mother dying from an illness and Ted's kids giving him the blessing to date their "Aunt" Robin because apparently, the whole reason he told the story was to convince the kids that he should date Robin. It undermined all the character development he and Robin went through for all nine seasons.
@@zoisite_moon2828 That's... a pretty bad ending
@@nerothewateruser8030 its even worse than he explaines to you.
@@paulovinasrocha6166 At least they foreshadowed it and kept going with it. Imagine if this was last season thing only.
"Little do they suspect that this video is sponsored by Skillshare!"
*Everyone. Suspected that.*
"All a dream" endings are right up there with time travel endings. I remember watching Prince of Persia (Sands of Time?, don't know if there are others) and I wanted to scream at that final bullshit. CONGRATULATIONS, YOU JUST RENDERED YOUR WHOLE MOVIE POINTLESS. BAD.
That's also how the first Sands of Time game ended, though I give the game sequels credit for showing an escalating blowback every time the Prince tries to "fix" the situation. He finally resolves everything when he STOPS trying to undo everything and finally live with the consequences of his choices.
I remember when I wrote the first draft of my story. While I am mostly an outliner and I had everything planned, there's a bit of discovery writing in me. There was one action scene when I was just writing when suddenly one of the bad guys comes up behind and stabs one of the characters... I stopped when that happened and realized what I had done. I never meant for them to die, they just happened to be in a setting where realistically they WOULD die. In the end I decided to keep it and move on. I have since edited the story where that makes more sense, but you get the point.
Wait, Terrible Writing Advice giving actual advice? I love it!
The best ending is when the protagonist and the antagonist are fighting for a power-up and the antagonist gets the power-up but it doesn't work so the protagonist steals the power-up and it does work and the antagonist's power doesn't work anymore and the protagonist kills the antagonist in one hit and then suddenly a flashback with no transition to before the story even started giving the feeling of the story both ending too fast and too slow at the exact same time
TWA: *talking about cliffhangers*
Me: *cries in half-life fan*
*Screeches in Between the Lions*
Time, Mr. Fogarasi. Is it really that *time* again? ...
@@ahniandfriends123 **Joins in**
*AND THAT'S WHY HE'S CALLED CLIFF HANGEEEER!!!~♫*
Wow,I’m so sorry...............
8:13 Remember reading an interesting story on wattpad that did this. Really it was just a way to stretch out the series since it should've ended after the first sequel. Falling in love with characters and then learned they were imaginary. Got so irritated I dropped the final book altogether.
Oh wow-
Some of my favorite endings:
Hunger Games- It seems super happy on the surface, but if you look deeper it is so much more complicated. Peeta is happy and I think Katniss is to a certain extent too, but she most likely won't ever be able to leave the past behind completely. Loss, trauma, and her mistakes will continue to haunt her throughout her life.
Lord of the Rings- Some people got better endings than others, but they all felt natural for the character. Most were bittersweet. I went through a full range of emotions reading them.
Far From Men- The entire film built up to the last few minutes. I was confident Mohamed would follow through on his plan, but praying the whole time there would be an out. The scene where he made his final choice left me so happy and emotionally drained at the same time. I like that they actually made Daru accept the consequences of his choice. It hurt so much to see him suffer, but you know he will be okay in the end. I believe that Daru did the right thing (though I loved how much struggled to do it at times), but actions always have consequences. It was a brave ending.
Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood: The characters went through and lost so much already. I needed a happy ending just as much as they did. This was a rare case of a unabashedly happy, cheesy ending working perfectly in the story.
I really hated Hunger Games’ ending, they killed off all the likeable characters and then didn’t even give the characters I didn’t give a shit about a happy ending? They’re literally living in a graveyard. That book made me feel like shit and I never want to touch the series again because of it.
The only just a dream ending I give a pass to is Alice in Wonderland.
What about The Wizard of Oz? It's cut from the same cloth as Alice in Wonderland.
Alice in Wonderland being a dream fits thematically and makes the whole story make sense. Same with Oz. The themes in that revolve around Dorothy coming to terms with her own life. The lesson she learns carries through past the dream. That's the key to making that ending work, I think.
Silent Hill would like to know your location.
Alice in Wonderland is SO good...
6:52 ERROR ERROR. HONESTY DETECTED. INITIATE PROTOCOL A2O69! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!
@@seanhoogland1938 Oh thank God. I thought I would have to set off the nukes.
Oh this is where Syfy got their technique for ending shows from.
And DnD
@Hans Hanzo what about Alpha, helix and dark matter
And here I am holding out hope for a 3rd season of KRYPTON, after where they left off of.
I'm currently writing my first story ever. I actually had a great idea of a plot-twist, and chose to build my whole story around it.
It's sooo fun to write it, always giving hints about what is happening, and trying to balance the "too obvious" and the "too cryptic"
How to end an anime: Make a "read the manga" ending.
TWA aint the only Guy covering Writing-Advice-presented-with-Huor.
Hello Future Me does so too,
but way mre funny: Big Crticism Essays like Madvocastesa Flash-Videos, Jay Excis legendary Doctor Who Video
and Hbomberguys and Krimson Rogues whole channel is about 'Epic Long Videos'.
This is how you write a good ending.
Everyone Died
The End
Don’t forget to clarify that rocks fell beforehand!
Homestuck
I know someone who wrote a short story, ending it with meteor hitting earth and killing everyone rather than answering any of the compelling questions he set up. Of course, he was intentionally trolling everyone he handed it to read.
So, _The Ugly Barnacle_ ?
@@knightofberenike9633 I was _gonna_ say, "or that the barnacle was really that ugly," but *BlackCover95* beat me to it. X^D
_“A simple forced predictable ending is still better than a dumb twist ending out of nowhere”_
Someone send this to Mac Walters
If you'd like a twist ending done right with decent buildup, hunt Robert E Howard's "Worms Of The Earth".
Hans Hanzo not if it’s in service of a shitty story (a la Mass Effect 2).
There's also the fact that some stories are only going to be predictable to some people because they're smart enough to figure it out. Usually because they've experienced so much fiction that they can see the patterns. I was able to predict a lot of the stuff in Good Omens. But it was still a satisfying journey getting there.
And Shaylaman.
Send it to kishimoto as well. How do you manage to make two great villains to end the series on and then think it’s a good idea to pull out an alien queen out of your ass
7:37 Thanks glad you dropped the jokes here. Think this is the best advice when it comes to endings. Really wish more people made it sound as easy as it is.
Absolutely hilarious how, even when being dead serious, JP’s advice still essentially boils down to, “Stop trying so hard.”
The Honest Writing Advice was actually enjoyable. If that were an every once in a while video, I would totally watch that. Great stuff as always!
1:53 Calling it now, this is gonna be a giant dig at the GOT finale.
I don't care for spoilers so can u tell what's all this about the GOT terrible finale? Why was it awful.
@@jge8144 Subversion for the sake of subversion. Making characters do things that totally defy their arcs. Giving short, flimsy justifications and lazy build up for their sudden changes that feel like someone shoehorned it in after the fact. It was obviously rushed because so much of it could've been solved with a few more episodes of thoughtful build up. Making important things they've built up over a long time turn out utterly irrelevant. Seemingly looking at the fan theories and trying their best to do the opposite of that even if the theories made a ton of sense. Gave pretty much everyone a miserable or unsatisfying conclusion. If you're really curious, just watch it yourself for the full effect. Or settle for one of the dozens of videos dissecting that season.
@@jge8144 these videos go into painstaking detail of what is wrong with GoT season 8 and why, and yes that is a two and a half hour breakdown of an hour long episode.
ua-cam.com/video/GI7zy1PTMp0/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/5B8Ycfy-Ldc/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/7K0KaEYX41c/v-deo.html
@@jge8144 Long Story Short:
Fan theories figured out the twist at the end a while ago, and to avoid the "predictable ending" the showrunmers basically made a rushed, poorly justified change in the story that messed up everything that the show was building towards to be "subversive". It didn't really help that the writing was already going to crap because the show writers overshot the books and didn't have George RR Martin's dialogue and story beats to crib from anymore.
TL;DR half of the things that The video was mocking could be applied to the GOT finale.
@@williamhare4456 will take a look at those, thanks!
8:20 "and then john was a zombie" good GOD that's a deliciously classic reference. I too remember that old DOOM fanfic.
I am Dream Are zombies even demons?
@@emblemblade9245 I mean, it depends on your source material, but in the case of DOOM, there are zombies that are just possessed humans if I recall correctly.
Alternate history please. (You could talk about what if the Nazis won WW2, which has never actually been done before)
And don't forget the Confederacy winning the American Civil War! That totally hasn't been done to death!
UnderTheThunder good idea, and it should be set in the USA no matter what.
@@kayseek1248 Absolutely! Alternate History about the Boer Republics should totally take place in the US despite the fact that the US is only tangentially effected by this change and having the story take place in, y'know, Africa would not only make much more sense but also be much more interesting! That's an excellent idea!
I'm still amazed he hasn't covered time travel and alternate history more. That's pretty much the entire setting of his book.
@@BonaparteBardithion It's harder to pull the trigger when you're pointing the gun at your own foot.
"Why have style over substance when you can use style to fake substance?" - You have just bashed so much people that write poetry...
ngl, JP giving genuine advice has a super strangely comforting tone
0:40 - clearly, all those red flags are pointed away from him because he cleverly dodged all the serious problems and created a masterpiece
"Mostly power fantasy nonsense that has nothing to do with anything" fairy tail in a nutshell
with a side order of "have most of the antagonists turn good at the last minute for no reason regardless of if what they said or did doesn't equate to being forgiven so easily and/or their good motives do not in any way shape or form match up with their previously established evil and cruel personalites and actions"
oh and let's introduce this evil god who caused everything bad that happened but never actually acknowldge that or even have him appear in the story as the final antagonist.
Opposite rivals where the 'good guy' always wins
“You must read another book(s) worth of material to know what is going on.”
Me: Kingdom Hearts in a Nutshell...!
Ironically, Terrible Writing Advice has taught me better than most of my teachers.
"Remember, the only point is surprising the audience"
Are you ghostwriting for vince russo again
The only channel where add is arguably my favorite part. So creative.
Absolutely love these videos
Yeah.
Can someone make a compilation of the skillshare ads?
*J. J. Abrams:* How did he know what's inside the Mystery Box?
Eragon's "epilogue" lasts half of the final book. It was infuriating.
Freaking Eragon
Honestly that last book was a mess, and the biggest problem is that he clearly wrote himself into a corner. When he revealed the source of Galbatorix’s strength in the third book, it revealed just how dangerous he was, and how difficult taking him down would be. I thought there would be some sort of elegant and brilliant solution that would allow the heroes to outwit him, but instead it became painfully obvious that he had no idea how to get around this problem, and so instead resorted to multiple Deus Ex Machinas that opened up so many plot holes. The heroes won purely because of authorial bias, plain and simple.
Better a lot of time Taking to wrap a big conflict than just fi
Better to take a lot of time to wrap things up and fix problems that won't go away because Galbatorix is dead,instead of just ending.
I love endings that are abrupt; who actually has the time to
Yea, who likes the type of ending that
My favourite endings are when
8:05 It can also go by its cousin trope: all of the events in this story takes place within a snow globe.
Or being in a simulation.
You didnt touch on the Babylon 5 Special: the show is cancelled prematurely and in the middle of serious rising conflict, so the writers are forced to make a dinner scene where all of the characters get together and say "wow, wasnt x scary? Im glad y had a happy ending. Im sure z would love to be here"
There's something reassuring about the slightly forceful "stay calm and don't overthink it." Like someone's put their hands on my shoulders and told me to snap out of something. I guess out of all the procrastination videos I could have watched while writing, this was a surprisingly good and inspirational one.
It seems that there is much shade being thrown at Rian Johnson's The Last Jedi writing, but I also feel that much of this criticism can be directed toward The Legend of Korra too.
Also, it's great to hear you give honest thoughts again, but will you ever be updating your site with your Honest Thoughts on your videos since March? Been missing reading those Honest Thoughts.
I think the main issue with Legend of Korra's final chapter was that the writer fell back into old bad kids-cartoon habits.Giving the villan (who's motivation was in my opinion poorly estabished) a nigh-invincible superweapon that makes little sense was a massive leap back from the much, much, much better antagonists from books one and three. Those guys had clear and understandable motives AND a reasonable plan to achieve them, that didn't hinge on a 50 meter tall robot made from a very rare material with the density and mechanical strengh of gold...
Seriously, the final battle felt like an argument with a 6yrs old about his all-powerfull immaginary friend. Every time you point out a flaw in his uber-abilities, he just makes up a new one to compensate...
I feel like one of the main problems of the series was how each season was basically starting the story completely over from scratch. Each season had a new main villain, new themes, and new characters. You felt like there wasn’t enough time to deeply delve into anything the season brings because the season had to spend so much time juggling old things along with new things the season introduces.
Overall it felt like they were telling 4 loosely linked stories that were rushed and had to incorporate elements from past seasons (or the past series) but was unable to effectively use those past elements.
*cough* GoT
@@bobbyferg9173 and what's wrong with that? In my opinion having different villains for each season was spectacular. Also while kora has its flaws, especially the beginning of the second season, I feel like some people are overreacting.
Tony Nola Well the thing is that they have to spend time each season building up the conflict and villain. The fact that the villains often have very little to do with each other directly kinda makes it feel like they don’t have much overall impact on the story later on. While I do think they handle this better in season 3 and especially 4, the conflicts can feel like they happen just because there needs to be a conflict.
Also I believe that most people’s opinions about the series stem from the first two seasons, which bring a lot of mixed feelings. But I feel like the third and fourth seasons finally found some solid ground on how to make the series, which is a shame since Nickelodeon didn’t even air the third and fourth season on TV.
I've always wanted to write some epic fantasy story where a bunch of teenagers go on a grand adventure only for the main character to wake up at the end and realize it was a dream and wake up on the first day of school.
Except when they arrive at class, one of the people from their dream is sitting there.
And it's very obvious they recognize each other.
Pretty much, the whole group had the same shared dream, only to find themselves sharing real life together and trying to figure out what happened and why. Ironically enough, I got THIS idea from a dream. Feel free to use it ;)
TWA: (gives actual advice)
Millions of movie writers everywhere:…No, I don’t think I wil
Only one ship can sail with 100,000 captains.
The Death Star.
The biggest polyamorous ship of all time
Last time I was this early
I still had self confidence...
So never
WOW, THAT'S RELATABLE!
Oh golly, i suppose someone wants attention, huh?
@@jackisawesome3 Oh no just trying to make a joke.
I suppose you don't know what that is do ya pal?
@@jackisawesome3 maybe!
@@Toasty218 Jokes are supposed to be funny
7:50 Was surprisingly the best part!
The lighthouse managed to pull the "characters were in purgatory all-along" thing
But that's cuz it was narrative choice from the start of the movie, and not just some dumb twist at the end
6:48 I love how the good writing advice stars when the dota in the background clear up