Thank you - likewise I admire your channel. I recently rewatched the wonderful Boxer Rebellion campaign you ran. I recognised some of the Legation buildings as being from Old Glory. Many years ago they used to do the same buildings in 28mm but I doubt they sold many as they were very expensive and took up a lot of tablespace. I had that issue in mind when talking about the footprint of the British Legation.
Thanks for showing those sketches from Cadogan's Crimea. I have just bought a copy. Those Greeks you saw are the Greek Legion. They weren't all Greeks, many were Served, Bulgaars, etc, but they wore Greek traditional dress. Was reading up about them the other day.
Interesting about the Greek Legion. I suppose Balkan sympathies lay more with the Orthodox Church and were opposed to the Ottoman Empire. Where did you find reference to them?
@@RalphAstley So my wife is Greek, so when I read sources I always pause when I find references to Greeks. I was turned on to it by a reference to Greeks in the Siege of Sevastopol, and then did some further digging. There is actually a Wikipedia page for the "Greek Volunteer Legion" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Volunteer_Legion There is a history of the Legion written by Aristeidis Chrysovergis which I will see if I can get my mitts on. Unlikely to have been translated, but I can likely do that myself since my wife is a professional translator... So I will have help :) I have some Steve Barber Greeks in appropriate attire that I will paint up and use as a Battalion of Greeks. Poles also served the Czar, though not in a legion as such. The Fletcher & Ishchenko Alma book has many interesting references to a specific Polish officer who provides an interesting perspective.
@@ZenMiniPainting There were tentative moves towards forming a Foreign Legion composed of POWs from Poles and Finns captured in the Baltic campaign. As it was they had to be kept separate from the Russian national prisoners.
I've been working on a Mahdist War project on-and-off, and when looking at references there was an issue of contemporary publications taking black-and-white drawings/illustrations of soldiers in Sudan and incorrectly coloring them the classic red uniform, rather than the late-war khaki uniform (or camel corps' blue uniform portrayed as red), etc. It added a layer of confusion when I was first starting out.
There must have been lots of scope for errors to creep in and more thoughts have occurred to me since making this video: 1. No matter how 'on the spot' and immediate a sketch it will always have been reworked somewhat after the event. Vaughan's subjects clearly posed for the artist but when were they coloured in? 2. Many of the incidents sketched by Cadogan could not possibly have been completed as the incident took place, so he must have worked up the sketches later. I'm guessing though that he coloured them around the same time, but then he would have been limited to his palette of water colours so how accurate was his depiction of the greatcoats for instance? 3. Many sketches that we see nowadays were published in newspapers and journals of the time. These were nearly always embellished versions of cruder sketches made by the original artist. The embellishments often involved artistic license so topography was exaggerated and colours invented. The original sketches would sometimes have been submitted by a correspondent or journalist, but many officers must have made a little side cash by offering their eye-witness sketches to the press. 4. Other sketches were pure imagination - for instants prints of key events in the Boxer Rebellion appeared in Japan before the events had even taken place. This was akin to the later enthusiasm to achieve a 'scoop'. Therefore it is wise to be cautious even of these primary sources.
Very interested in knowing how often regulation uniform items were worn out, discarded or replaced out of necessity by soldiers on campaign. Appreciate your in depth views.
I don't have any knowledge but there were a few interesting remarks of relevance in that book by Vaughan. One was the passage that I read out that mentioned the baggage coming up after the column had reached Peking, which implies that the soldiers wore and carried the bare essentials. This would have saved on wear and tear. Another passage mentioned a cart that followed behind the column collecting discarded items. One can only surmise that this 'collection' included taking equipment and possibly uniforms from the dead. I'm sure that 'make do and mend' featured heavily and also that there was always a local population able to provide services. I recall reading how Chinese civilians always dyed Russian soldiers white tunics khaki as soon as they arrived at the front in the Russo-Japanese War. No doubt they also provided laundry and tailoring services thereafter and that similar arrangements were made by all armies on campaign whatever the theatre.
Interesting presentation ranging from Source Material to scale of game across a few different conflicts. As a quick question apologies if you've already covered this, but what Wargame rules do you use for your Crimean games and Jacobite battles, I think its just the '45 you cover?
The ponderous rate at which I paint figures means that I have still to play a game in either period but Black Powder always suffices for me. In the case of the Crimean War I base the figures for Age of Valour. As for the Jacobite Rebellion I have recently purchased a set of rules specific to 1745. As I am about to reveal another completed Government regiment I will save mention of that for an upcoming video.
@@RalphAstley You may be interested to know that Warlord did mention a Crimean Campaign book coming over the next year. Would undoubtedly be BP so may give you some aiming points to get enough done for a game.
@@AndrewSmith-fd3fi Yes - I heard of that first from Napoleonic Wargaming's channel (announced 2023) and it has spurred me on to complete my forces in time for the release. Usually Warlord take an eternity for their plans to reach fruition but this year's open day made it look promising along with a possible Boer War supplement.
Very nicely done. Love your channel. I always enjoy your perspectives. It mirrors mine often. Thank you for your words!!!
Thank you - likewise I admire your channel. I recently rewatched the wonderful Boxer Rebellion campaign you ran. I recognised some of the Legation buildings as being from Old Glory. Many years ago they used to do the same buildings in 28mm but I doubt they sold many as they were very expensive and took up a lot of tablespace. I had that issue in mind when talking about the footprint of the British Legation.
Thanks for showing those sketches from Cadogan's Crimea. I have just bought a copy.
Those Greeks you saw are the Greek Legion. They weren't all Greeks, many were Served, Bulgaars, etc, but they wore Greek traditional dress. Was reading up about them the other day.
Interesting about the Greek Legion. I suppose Balkan sympathies lay more with the Orthodox Church and were opposed to the Ottoman Empire. Where did you find reference to them?
@@RalphAstley So my wife is Greek, so when I read sources I always pause when I find references to Greeks.
I was turned on to it by a reference to Greeks in the Siege of Sevastopol, and then did some further digging.
There is actually a Wikipedia page for the "Greek Volunteer Legion" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Volunteer_Legion There is a history of the Legion written by Aristeidis Chrysovergis which I will see if I can get my mitts on. Unlikely to have been translated, but I can likely do that myself since my wife is a professional translator... So I will have help :)
I have some Steve Barber Greeks in appropriate attire that I will paint up and use as a Battalion of Greeks.
Poles also served the Czar, though not in a legion as such. The Fletcher & Ishchenko Alma book has many interesting references to a specific Polish officer who provides an interesting perspective.
@@ZenMiniPainting There were tentative moves towards forming a Foreign Legion composed of POWs from Poles and Finns captured in the Baltic campaign. As it was they had to be kept separate from the Russian national prisoners.
I've been working on a Mahdist War project on-and-off, and when looking at references there was an issue of contemporary publications taking black-and-white drawings/illustrations of soldiers in Sudan and incorrectly coloring them the classic red uniform, rather than the late-war khaki uniform (or camel corps' blue uniform portrayed as red), etc. It added a layer of confusion when I was first starting out.
There must have been lots of scope for errors to creep in and more thoughts have occurred to me since making this video:
1. No matter how 'on the spot' and immediate a sketch it will always have been reworked somewhat after the event. Vaughan's subjects clearly posed for the artist but when were they coloured in?
2. Many of the incidents sketched by Cadogan could not possibly have been completed as the incident took place, so he must have worked up the sketches later. I'm guessing though that he coloured them around the same time, but then he would have been limited to his palette of water colours so how accurate was his depiction of the greatcoats for instance?
3. Many sketches that we see nowadays were published in newspapers and journals of the time. These were nearly always embellished versions of cruder sketches made by the original artist. The embellishments often involved artistic license so topography was exaggerated and colours invented. The original sketches would sometimes have been submitted by a correspondent or journalist, but many officers must have made a little side cash by offering their eye-witness sketches to the press.
4. Other sketches were pure imagination - for instants prints of key events in the Boxer Rebellion appeared in Japan before the events had even taken place. This was akin to the later enthusiasm to achieve a 'scoop'.
Therefore it is wise to be cautious even of these primary sources.
Very interested in knowing how often regulation uniform items were worn out, discarded or replaced out of necessity by soldiers on campaign. Appreciate your in depth views.
I don't have any knowledge but there were a few interesting remarks of relevance in that book by Vaughan. One was the passage that I read out that mentioned the baggage coming up after the column had reached Peking, which implies that the soldiers wore and carried the bare essentials. This would have saved on wear and tear. Another passage mentioned a cart that followed behind the column collecting discarded items. One can only surmise that this 'collection' included taking equipment and possibly uniforms from the dead. I'm sure that 'make do and mend' featured heavily and also that there was always a local population able to provide services. I recall reading how Chinese civilians always dyed Russian soldiers white tunics khaki as soon as they arrived at the front in the Russo-Japanese War. No doubt they also provided laundry and tailoring services thereafter and that similar arrangements were made by all armies on campaign whatever the theatre.
@@RalphAstley Thank-you for the insight. I like to include a 'rag-tag' element to my miniatures.
Interesting presentation ranging from Source Material to scale of game across a few different conflicts. As a quick question apologies if you've already covered this, but what Wargame rules do you use for your Crimean games and Jacobite battles, I think its just the '45 you cover?
The ponderous rate at which I paint figures means that I have still to play a game in either period but Black Powder always suffices for me. In the case of the Crimean War I base the figures for Age of Valour. As for the Jacobite Rebellion I have recently purchased a set of rules specific to 1745. As I am about to reveal another completed Government regiment I will save mention of that for an upcoming video.
@@RalphAstley You may be interested to know that Warlord did mention a Crimean Campaign book coming over the next year. Would undoubtedly be BP so may give you some aiming points to get enough done for a game.
@@AndrewSmith-fd3fi Yes - I heard of that first from Napoleonic Wargaming's channel (announced 2023) and it has spurred me on to complete my forces in time for the release. Usually Warlord take an eternity for their plans to reach fruition but this year's open day made it look promising along with a possible Boer War supplement.