Living with the 2019 BMW F850GS Adventure | In depth review
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- Опубліковано 21 тра 2024
- Having had the BMW F850 GS Adventure for a couple of weeks and generally ridden the pants off of it, I have been able to come to some conclusions about the bike. In this video I not only show you what the bike is like to ride at night, on fast roads, in the wet, in town and so on but i also give you my lessons learned about the bike, both good and bad! if you're interested in the 2019 BMW F850GSA you need to watch this video!
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Good review however the two negatives you brought up are easily solved by the non-adventure version. I own a F850GS so I can speak to this. First, the non-adventure version is a bit lower and weighs less. The fuel capacity with the improved fuel economy over the F800 is just fine. Secondly, the non-adventure version looks really well put together and the design cues flow much better. The GSA version seems to be an afterthought and definitely a design compromise. Just my two bits worth.
I have followed your great reviews and advice for a long time and in this one you addressed something very important to me and older folks like me. When the bikes get too heavy to handle when standing or pushing it around becomes a chore. After your review of the R1200 several years ago, I bought one. I remember that I had a lot of problems standing my F800RT. When I sat for the first time on a R1200 I almost sent it to the other side because I found it too light (though is heavier) just like you pointed out. I love my bike. I will hate getting rid of it but I have to do it. I was always in a short side but at my age I lost at least 2 inches of height. I cannot tell you my loss of strength either. I hope you get to my age, or that by then, they have stopped aging. Many over 80 stop riding, but I have decided go lighter but keep having fun. Unfortunately, the F850GS won't be it. I looking seriously at the BMW G 310 GS or the new Honda CB500X when I can try them. I’m looking forward to it. I hope you review them. Most people call this class of bike rookies' bikes. They forget the people at the other end that still enjoy a ride in the trails or the twisters but no longer have the strength to lift it if they drop it. It is not easy been old but the alternative is even worse. Keep your nice channel going. Happy trails.
Will do! Thanks for dropping by!
Enjoyed the side view with you siting on the bike -- really gives a good view of the seating position and seat height , hope you incorporate that again in future review videos Thanks again for all your insight
I always look forward to, and enjoy your reviews. Learn something every time. Thanks again. 👍🏼 👏👏👏 😎 🇺🇸
Another great honest review 👍
This is, in my humble opinion, a benchmark review!
You covered things I forget to ask.
Cheers mate👍
This is a great review! you touched on all the practical points about the bike and gave us the spec's.
Also real life situation most other reviews wouldn't even think of. thank you
Thank you for watching and for the kind words!
Had this bike from BMW while mine was in for a service so rode it around London. It is a big bike but it’s very easy to ride and didn’t think it was heavy. I guess always best to try yourself.
Very true!
Excellent review! The fact you went through all of the realistic riding conditions (including rain - absolutely unheard of!) was fantastic. Subscribed.
Welcome along Justin - I try and do that in all my in depth reviews.....
Thank you for the in-depth video, just purchased my F850 GS and very excited about all the features you reviewed. Keep up the reviews.
Congratulations and will do!
Another excellent review TMF. This channel deserves more subscribers - I have seen channels with over a million subs that lack the quality of your content.
Such a cruel world we live in :(
Well put Sir. 👍🏼
Even if it's a bike that I probably wouldn't consider buying, I still watch TMF videos. I make sure to watch some of the sponsors video too. Helps him produce top quality content we all enjoy watching.
I second your comment!
The TMF channel is a gem!
Strikes me as a lot of bike for the money.....excellent detailed review. Thank you.
Just fitted the anti dazzle screen cover to my 1250 made it much better than standard, thanks for the reviews got me to buy my own gs 1250
I like the long term tests , great to see how how the GS performs in all conditions , helps potential buyers make the right choice .
great video Andy
That’s my general idea - cheers John...
Really good video, straight to the point and answers all the important questions.
Thank you Renny - appreciated!
New bike buyer here, so I really appreciate the detail into which you went on this video! The night riding, the bike lugging, etc. are exactly what I have been seeking.
Glad to help!
One of the best reviews of any bike that I have seen. I am considering one and it was ticking all my boxes until you mentioned the weight which to me is one of the most important issues so something I will look at very closely when I take a test ride. Thank you.
Yes on paper a great bike this - but the top heavy nature of the bike makes it very difficult to live with imo
Another top quality video by TMF.
Hi tmf that was a good insight into the gs850 I can see why you went 4 the bigger bike nice job
Not in the market for an adventure bike but your review was still a joy to watch!
Thank you!
Very helpful review, what a great machine. Looking likely this’ll be my first big bike (providing I pass my test)!!
Very good and honest review as always Andy. 👍
Thank you Steve - i try my best!
You're right about the visibility, saw one the other day in daylight coming towards me, super bright lights, really stood out. I wonder if BMW ever considered a smaller displacement boxer for this bike. That would be cool. Probably not cost prohibitive for the bean counters. Enjoy the American football game being played in London. Chicago Bears vs Los Angeles Raiders. Go Bears!
Love the video, very informative. Much appreciated!!
My pleasure John…
Good review and summery TMF.
You do some great reviews. Thanks.
Thank you very much!
Just bought this bike. I absolutely love it. I moved from a 07 R 1200 GS. I actually find this one feels much lighter, especially in the dirt. The quick shift is brilliant. It shines in the dirt as well. Thank you for this review. (It is a pain to wash!)
quick shifter works better on the inlines such as the 1000xr. Too bad its application with the boxer will never be as smooth, just doesn't seem to work well with the boxer config
How does the power compare? Coming from a 07 1200gsa and considering a more offroad oriented bike but I’m afraid I might miss the power.
@@Lecruque My 07', 1200 had about 100 hp, the 850 has 90. The difference is quite minimal. I had my wife and loaded with luggage and cruised at 80 mph for a day with no strain. The 850 does have it's power a little higher in the revs, but there is every pony I need and want.
@@davereinhart9933Hey! Just reading your helpful comments. Do you still have the bike and what are your thoughts after a couple of years ownership? Thinking of getting this model…
This is a brilliant review and very helpful. I especially appreciate the"cost of ownership" section of the discussion. Most reviewers don't do this research and, as far as I'm concerned, this sets you a step above other reviewers. I am inclined to want to save my money a bit longer and buy the 1250 GSA because of the heavy handling characteristic of this machine. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks Andy, I'm torn between the 750 and 850 for my next bike so loving your reviews on both.
Same! I’m leaning 750.
@@markhegg7409 I think I'm with you on that.
Good review Tmf nice bike wish I had switch year that light up on my mt10 as well .thanks from Danny
Excellent review, thanks..
Thank you for watching!
Nice review tmf, as you say they are abit heavy at stand still but they are surprising agile when moving. Ive the older f800gs and find it great for nipping around when you get used to the weight and height .
re turning while pushing. You could do a " stand turn " lean it towards you letting the side stand take the weight and with hands on bars and tail turn it on it's axis. Nice machine as one would expect
After watching heaps of your vids I finally decided on the BMW F 850 GS. Pick it up tomorrow. Woohoo. 🍾
Congratulations!
Hi TMF - great review as always. I too like the side view of you siting on the bike and hope you include that in your future reviews. Reading the comments it seems there’s quite a split in views about how the bike handles pillion and luggage on a tour. Of course you weren’t able to test that but for a touring bike it just points to the need of a test ride. Anyway the comments help for, as you may recall, I’m planning to get a touring bike next spring - but this bike won’t be it unfortunately. Yours aye, Alan
Always love these extended reviews TMF! Honestly there's something that just makes me like the tiger 800 that bit more that I don't feel with this bike. Not that I'll be throwing down this kind of cash on either bike any time soon lol! Great review as always - even if it's not my kind of thing, I love the additional detail you go to - everyone and their dog will give you a specsheet review, but I love how you go into the real day to day stuff like that high gloss satnav and the high weight; little things maybe but these are the kind of things that really end up making the big differences a month after you bought it
That is my aim James - glad you said that!
Great review, possibly your best yet, lots of useful info. The static weight issue is a killer for me, I'm pretty much the same size and build as you, so want something I can fell comfortable moving around, and possibly picking up off the floor. I collect my new KTM 790 Adventure S on Saturday, I've just ordered a Speedo Angel for it too, thanks for pointing them out.
If you want to see how you get on with the lower ride height of the S as opposed the the R that KTM lent you then give me a shout.
Congratulations on the new bike!
Just a minor correction for 17:30
You can get glass screenprotectors for phones. I've been using those for a loooong time.
Otherwise, splendid review, thanks for the effort!
Your comment about the outside spoked wheels is so on point. I had a R100GS with those wheels and they were a real pain to keep clean. In the end, after a year or so of scuffed knuckles etc I found the answer, spray them with a liquid soap - kerosene mix and then hit them with high pressure water jet (not a water blaster but that would work) then, and this is the bit you would probably find difficult, turn your back on them. Saved me a heap of pain and anguish about dirty wheels.
Oh no, nightmare scenario!!!
Great video and wealth of information. I have a Harley now but looking at a adventure bike like this F850. I love the advantages of having this bike that you dont have with a harley. I will be test riding a F850 this morning.
Hi TMF - we met recently at the Krazy Horse event in Suffolk - I was one of the Visorcat winners. Just to say really enjoy these videos, although one element is missing (alluded to in the comment below) which is two up touring capability. I realise this may make the videos more complicated / time consuming, but at least perhaps comment on the payload and likely two up lugging capability of the engine suspension (if you can) Cheers
TMF, I've got the Nav6 on my GSA and have had no issues with it in the Sun. PM to borrow it and try it out in different environments and bikes . I'm on your FB followers
Don’t like BMW’s but watched this all the way through, great video👍👍
Thank you Simon!
And, even your lawnmower is spotless :-)
I noticed that too. 👍🏼
These reviews are like medicine for me. Just takes my mind off everything. They should be played in SPAs and other relaxation facilities.
That's very kind of you - thank you very much!
Another very useful review, Andy. I know you said those wheels are a pain to clean, but I’d put up with that for the looks.
Andy 🏴
They do look cool I agree...
going it a bit for a parking lot, but love these twins.
Thought that.
Good review !!
Thanks...
A vote here for the Speedo Angels screens. Have one on my TFT on my GSA from your review of them a while back.
Glad you approve!
still looking for the cb500x 2022 update in depth review , love your honest content!!
Thanks for the review. I've got the 750GS presently and very happy with that. I will though at some point go for a bigger GS and i think after your review it would be the 850GS non adventure or a 1250. Also just order a screen protector and Speedo Angels also do an anti-glare for the navigator 6, so bought one of them too as I've had the same issue. Cheers for the discount code :)
Glad you found it!
Great review as usual TMF :) interesting bike that 850gsa.
Exactly why I am not going for a smaller engine BMW bike, just like my old Honda Deauville, this has the weight distribution higher than a boxer engine, making it's feel while stopped very heavy.
Yes we have the Speedo Angels on both our 1250gsa hp and 1250gs hp, works really well.
Defo worth protecting those expensive looking TFTs!
nice bike bmw loaned me one when my gs310 was in for a recall but going back to services if it takes 6 months to do 600 miles breaking in service do I need to service it again when its a year old or a year from its 1st service 2 bmw dealers are giving me different information on this but yes great bike and great review
Thank you so much
The choice nowadays is mind boggling, i love all of the BMW range, they just make fantastic cars and bikes all across their range i am considering the 850/1250 standard GS as my next bike. But may as well try out a few others maybe the Pan America, Multistrada, Hondas range ive been with KTM for some time great bikes similar to BMW i just dont need the speed anymore (getting older) these reviews are fantastic really helps us its not so easy to find time to do test drives, thank you for making these videos
My pleasure!
Had the 850gsa rallye out yesterday while my R12R was in for service. Nice bike, but it is heavy, and the rallye seat is high. I found it very balanced in slow traffic, junctions etc, but needed revving to get the best from it. Weather protection proved to be good, the heavens opened at one point.
It has some stiff competition out there, the KTM 790 adventure to name one, lighter, and more entertaining engine.
How tall are you?
Your reviews are always useful... Pretty comprehensive!!!
I love the 850 GS... Except the weight distribution... That's where the KTM 790 Adventure trumps it... Although the R is too tall...
Talk about compromises for shorter guys like us... 😂😂😂
Helpfully, BMW and Triumph do offer low chassis versions of their bikes.
I think I just worked out the real reason why dealers loan you bikes, it saves them a fortune on valeting 🤣
For those who are just looking at seat height, compare and contrast the reviewed bike with the plain 850 GS and 750 GS.
850 GS Adventure:
835mm - Low Seat
875mm - Standard Seat
815mm - Extra Low/ Low Suspension
875mm - High / Comfort Seat
890mm - Extra High / Rallye Seat
850 GS:
815mm - Low Suspension Kit (Option)
835mm - Low Seat (Option/Accessory)
860mm - Standard Seat
875mm - Comfort Seat (Option/Accessory)
890mm - Rallye Seat
And finally the slightly detuned (77 versus above 95 hp) but same 853 cc engine with much lower seat height options.
750 GS:
770mm - Low Suspension Kit (Option)
790mm - Low Seat (Option/Accessory)
815mm - Standard Seat
830mm - Comfort Seat (Option/Accessory)
Thanks for that Kevin - something for everyone there!
Thanks for all the seat height measurements ,I took a pic 👍🏻
Great review! Do you have another review coming up soon?
Not on this bike - sorry!
Its a beast!
Maybe in future videos you could mention tank capacity and a realistic range based on your experience.
Liolololliiliiii
23 litres. 300 miles
Another good video.
Cheers Bob!
I've got the F800GS Trophy 2016...tank under the seat. Makes it easier to handle at slow speed / wheeling around etc. I wouldn't change to this 850, love the bike (800) but come time for an upgrade I'd go for the KTM 790 instead.
I've got a f800gs but looking at the 850 less fuel more weight normal fuel tank position. Less suspension travel. With the extra weight does the 9hp make any difference. And I have heard the Chinese built engine is more mechanically noisy.
Thank you... I am choosing this or the Moto Guzzi 850tt
Would be cool to see a video on parking bikes on inclines or hills. Riders who live in hilly areas or have hilly driveways would be good
Great review. What a beautiful machine. Truly a pretty one. I would not want to get it dirtied up. But that's why I have a pressure washer and a nice authentic Florida sponge. Nothing but the absolute best for me, I say. Thank you for the details. Giving us your height is important. And speaking in "Americanese" is important to a dummy like me that has no idea what the metric system is.
Thanks for the great review. I am currently in the market for a new bike and looking ad adventure bikes. All other reviewers always talk about how expensive the bike is, hence I never really checked it out as prices of 16 K EUR were mentioned. After your review I went onto the websit and found that they sell a special edition in Switzerland (where I live) that has all packages included for 13.5 KCHF. The T700 with center stand and luggage systems tops out at 13 KCHF, the Africa Twin gets you close to 18K, the R1250 with all packages is 22K. I was really surprised that over here, it costs almost 10K less than the 1250 and is not much more expensive than the T700 and that has no electronics, quickshifter, enginge guard, etc. included in the price.
Sounds like a bargain!
I bought one yesterday 👌🏼😘
Congratulations!
TheMissendenFlyer 😘
Couldn't sleep, so first comment! As usual, excellent in-depth review from TMF.
Well done!
As usual a great review for someone thinking of buying one that covers things other reviewers miss. A couple of other things to consider are if you're a shortie you can get a factory lowered one which reduces the seat height to 815mm and that's only another £155. Another possibility is to buy a low mileage 2 year old used 1200GS from a BMW dealer especially if you're considering 2 up touring as it'll come with a 2 year warranty and will have already taken a big hit depreciation wise so is likely to be cheaper in the long run unless the 850 was going to be a keeper. On the servicing costs if you're not doing many miles (most bikers don't do anywhere near 6000 miles a year?) an interim annual service is around £200. As far as the tyre valves are concerned I've found the Michelin foot pump fits perfectly as it has a 90 degree head on it.
Cheers Adrian - always good to have your input.....
Me and the wife just did Spain and France on our F850 GS Sport.. Some things we learned the Vario cases even empty add too much weight to the bike, Also found the Seat terrible even with Air Hawks on, Lack of grip from the tyres, No power really when trying to do 120kph up hill.. It did the job but honestly not impressed and the back shock wasn't unto it and the from suspension is too soft.. the adventure is better tbh but best just getting the big boy 1250. I work for BMW and I don't rate the engine tbh, Chucking mine in for a 1250. Oh and lubing the chain and cleaning it on a 3000 mile trip is a pain in the arse.
j0rzeh nice honest review.
I dont get it when some said that lubing a chain is such a pain in the arse..
Yes get the 1250 gsa and be done with it. Did a 3000km trip to the French Alps and Vercors and love it even more now.
Was your journey all Blacktop roads or did you use forest and off as well? If all on Blacktop why purchase a F850GS?
I use my F700GS for forest roads and occasionally double tracks, just did a trip from Canada down through the States and the whole of the Baja, and return, bike performance was great. Same bike also too me to inuvik and the artic Circle.
However, for total Blacktop journeys i use my Triumph trophy SE. A far superior bike to the BMW 1250
95 horsepower - 'No power' (!) Er perhaps you were in the wrong gear.
Another good review - nice to have another view although I don't agree with a number of things based on my experience. To me it is not heavy as adventure bikes go and I have a K1600 as well that is no lightweight as you know (I am 6ft and just over 12 stone as a comparison). I like the looks as it is different to others although I have and prefer the Rallye version which you mentioned in a previous test. I found the 1250 sterile and lacking character while the 850 has something about it. It is more involving to ride and handles extremely well, particularly good on bumpy, gravelly roads standing up. For me what you get for the money is a winner and happy not to follow the majority who will only go for the 1250 despite it's eye watering price. At the end of the day everyone owes it to themselves to test ride and draw own conclusions. My only negatives are the front forks are too soft when pressing hard and the sat nav mount on the bars is dangerous - it's too low having to take eyes off the road - I have moved mine above the TFT with an after market bracket. Other than that I'm well chuffed.
Thanks for the review. Looking at adventure bikes since not having one since 2002 (KLR650). Friend of mine picked up the 2021 Yamaha T7, which looks like a fun bike, but after having the KLR650, Yamaha Road Star, and latest bike, the 2007 Honda ST1300, I want a bike that can go off road, but have all of the comforts for long haul touring like the Honda 1300, which didn't have the different riding modes, and cruise control. Like you mentioned in the video, price of the F1250GSA vs F850GSA is a big issue. You can get a lot of extras with the difference in cost. Thanks again for the review.
My pleasure....
A very honest review with important notes about the weight feeling heavier due to the higher engine mass ..great job Sir !
On a side note my 2003 rt has an electronic screen (windscreen) and it's a bit odd that later bmw' s don't at last the gs models ? I love it its the first one I've had in any bike and I seriously wouldn't have another bike without one now !! So I guess that's an fjr1300 next then 😀
Any how a really enjoyable review young Mr Flyer thank you 👍🏻☮❤
"young Mr Flyer" - liking that....
springy 2112 could it take you on a passage to Bangkok though?
@@rumien1383 definately , wouldn't have to take the Thailand express , we'll hit the stops along the way , we only stop for the best !!
Cheers brother Peace and love ride safe and watch out for the Twilight zone 😀👍🏻☮❤
It could end in tears.😏🍺
@@rumien1383 at least there will be some "lessons" learned .....sorry I've gone too far now 👍🏻☮❤
New 1000 Tiger spec looks interesting
awesome review, i just wish they had the illuminated switches. random question but what workbench is that in the background?
One off the internet - I can’t recall the supplier now - sorry!!
Need to try the new Africa Twin that arrived today - looks great
Ooh I've not seen that yet.....
To be honest Nick, you look a bit too young to be messing about with motorcycles.
Thanks.
My hankering for a KTM 790 Adventure is kicked up a notch after watching this (will have to check your archive to see if you have reviewed it yet), because I agree this bike is a bit of a chaotic dog's breakfast design wise. Not to mention I would need a F750GS with low seat option :) or a step ladder/trike conversion lol
Hi Di - yes I’ve reviewed the 790 Adventure, I’ve several videos on the bike on my channel....
Hi there, great channel, at the age of 50 I’ve decided it’s time to get into motorbikes, maybe a little to old . I’m looking at getting a 125 but a Chinese built one , the reviews on them they seem quite decent? , it did make me laugh you are just up the road from me I’m in Risborough
Cheers Phil
Good for you! I'm 57 and ride 1-2 hours daily. It's a rejuvenating hobby for sure!
easy fix on the first peeve, I've had a matt screen protector on my VI since new, works very well. Never had a V so can tell if its the same. cheers
Hello,any links for that? Can't find it!
@@12masterr I used these guys, not sure what new versions they currently have as I ordered mine 3yrs ago
extra points for getting 'conspicuity' into the dialogue. 😁
It's a good 'un isn't it...
Before I make the one and only criticism of your reviews, let me say that I love them and you do some of the MOST comprehensive reviews of anyone on UA-cam. In my, not so humble opinion, you are one THE standard bearers for bike reviews. One thing that you leave out on these in depth reviews that I wish you would include: average gas mileage. You keep these bikes for a couple of weeks, you've got to have some idea about average mileage. Please try to include that in future reviews. For someone, like me, trying to decide on a long distance ADV/Touring bike, how large the tank is is important(and you always mention that) but actual mileage also makes a difference. It doesn't matter if it's got a huge tank if it's only getting 20 MPG. Now I know that HOW someone rides(as well as if they have luggage, a pillion, etc.,) plays into an individuals ACTUAL mileage but you could give us a good ballpark figure after a couple of weeks on it. Please!
I'll see what I can do - and thanks for the kind comments - appreciated!
Another great insight to what it would be like to own a bike.
Just a thought, I have noticed on a few of your vids when to are chatting to us with a piece of paper in your hand you often looked down at it (obviously reading it). I think it might be better if you set some large white boards behind the camera so we don’t have to keep looking at the top of your head? !
Just a little thing but I think it may help towards a even more professional finish. 👍
Thanks for the advice!
I had an F 800 GS with tank under seat which I really preferred since it had amazing centre of gravity, so I could really throw it around and thought it was rather light. My F 800 GS started on Fire, electrical short so cooked the wire harness and on board computer so insurance company wrote it off. Bikers in the UK have nothing to complain about for insurance. I’ll do the conversion, My 800 GS was 726 sterling and my Pan Euro now is 877 sterling per year in Canada to insure.
We like to complain about something or we’re not happy!!
@@TheMissendenFlyer I’ve been to the UK probably 25 times and noticed that complaining is a bit of a National Obsession. On one of your latest reviews on a nice sunny afternoon you complained that it was too Hot @ 28 c. I’ll take your -1 winter around London over my - 45 c Canadian Prairie winter any time, which is another good reason not to complain. Cheers!!!
With the tank full of fuel it does feel a bit top heavy but you don't always need to fill it up ( in the UK at least). I ride solo, don't go seriously off road and travel / tour light ( some soft luggage only) so with the huge cost saving over the 1250gs ( which I accept is the better bike) this 850gsa makes a lot of sense to me.
I completely get that Gordon!
Own the same model, bad points the weight and the side stand. I fitted a side stand wider foot plate which has the added benefit of lifting the bike up, and I fitted a lowered seat. I couldn't afford the bigger brother 1250 GSA so the 850 is a great second. Did you mentioned a matt screen protector for the Nav 6 ? and where to purchase one ? Great review as always.
Speedo angels - link in the description
Greetings feom Manitoba, Canada. Please talk about vibration at highway speeds. Thanks.
Hey TMF! Just watching some of your older clips as I’m looking at testing one of these next week. A very good 2019 example. In your (humble) opinion, is there much difference between this and my 2018 ATAS? And my goodness that Panigale looked good in the background!
This feels heavy compared to the ATAS
@@TheMissendenFlyer Yeah that's what I thought. Prob be better off looking at a 690 Adventure R or even the Tuareg. Have a good one!
Great review ! A huge concern of yours is the weight and in town maneuverability. I'm considering the F 850 low suspension. I am 5' 5" 30" inch inseam, far from a wimpy guy (your description) What bike would prefer over the F850 ?
Triumph Tiger 900
TMF: you're a Cool Cat. We should all aspire to be as pleasant and well-mannered. A big thumbs up from me for every video!
Thank you G! Very kind of you!
Do the additional spots on the front on all the time, or independent controls?
What about chain/sprocket cleaning? Getting to the front sprocket looks like a headache.
hmm this is probably a minor thing, but i also reckon you should mention how wide the seats are by taking out a tap measurement. I mean height is one thing but width of seats also contribute to it. Dont see few to non reviewers do this, maybe there too many variables? but couldn't hurt to try, just for comparison sakes.
So first great video. And I have a question which u rather have second hand 2015 R1200gs or new f850 gs? What do you think is better choices? Tnx please continue good work:)
second hand R1200gs all day - feels lighter (although it isn't)....
Any suggestion which 90 degree valve adaptor to buy for the 850GS
On the fence between this and the ATAS, ATAS is winning right now but not by much!